The Wolf Of All Streets - Get Ready: Institutional Giants About to Pour Billions into Crypto!

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Matt Hougan, the Chief Investment Officer of Bitwise, joins me today to provide his insights into what's going on with Ethereum ETFs.  Matt Hougan: https://x.com/Matt_Hougan My friends from The Arch Public, Andrew Parish, and Tillman Holloway, are joining in the second part of the stream to provide an update on the $10K algorithmic portfolio.  Unleash algorithmic trading with The Arch Public: https://thearchpublic.com/  Andrew Parish: https://twitter.com/AP_Abacus  Tillman Holloway: https://twitter.com/texasol61 ►► JOIN THE CONVERSATION AND EARN WEEKLY REWARDS! 👉https://roundtable.rtb.io/shortUrl/cGE61iK  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEKDAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/   ►► The Arch Public Unleash algorithmic trading. Discover how algorithms used by hedge-funds are now accessible to traders looking for unparalleled insights and opportunities!  👉https://thearchpublic.com/  ►►OKX SIGN UP FOR AN OKX TRADING ACCOUNT THEN DEPOSIT & TRADE TO UNLOCK MYSTERY BOX REWARDS OF UP TO $60,000!  👉https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER  ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. Use code 'TENOFFSALE' for a 10% discount. 👉https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker  ►►NGRAVE This is the coldest hardware wallet in the world and the only one that I personally use. 👉https://www.ngrave.io/?sca_ref=4531319.pgXuTYJlYd  ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets   Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #Ethereum The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Prices of crypto assets may be generally down for the moment, but there's a huge flood of capital coming and we know exactly where it's coming from. Be patient. Matt Hogan is going to tell us exactly where those flows are likely to come from and when. We're also going to discuss, obviously, our experiences at the conference, what's happening with the Ethereum spot ETFs, and more. Got the ArchPublic guys on the back half. Let's go. I finally met Matt Hogan in person after like 50 conversations through screens and through spaces. It actually happened. It was amazing.

It was so great to see you in full, more than just your chest and head. I saw the full Scott Melker. It was great. Guys, I have feet. Breaking news. I actually have feet. I'm not in the metaverse floating around. I'm a real person, and so is Matt.

But yeah, we did a quick interview for The Street, which was great and will be coming out very, very soon. But it actually gave a lot of insight for me, for this channel and for today's stream, because when I said, hey, what do you want to talk about? You basically said there's some big money coming. That's right. Yes. Yeah. I think people need to keep their eyes on Q3 and Q4 as it regards these ETFs. Right.

We saw the Bitcoin ETF explode out of the gate in January. We saw flows slow down a little bit in Q2, although they're still coming in. We saw the Ethereum ETF launch. But I think the big story in the second half of the year is we're going to see flows re-accelerate. And the reason for that is I expect the major wire houses, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, UBS, Merrill Lynch, to all come online in late Q3 or early Q4. And that's going to unlock trillions of dollars of assets that are going to come running into this space. I think it's going to be a big deal. So breaking that down right now, who does and who does not have access to these products in general? Yeah, I think this is a really important point. When people

hear that Bitcoin or Ethereum ETFs launch, they assume that all investors can buy them. But that's not the case. Retail investors can buy them. Independent financial advisors who run their own shop, what we call RIAs, can buy them. But these advisors or wealth managers that work for big platforms like Morgan Stanley, they can't buy them until Morgan Stanley greenlights the ETF itself. There's sort of like two keys that have to turn on, one at the SEC, one at Morgan Stanley. And the thing is, this is most of the money. So maybe 30% of the market can access these ETFs today. They're already the most successful ETF launch of all time. But the other 70% is coming online and it's coming online relatively soon is my best guess.

So you've been saying this for a few days, but I noticed that BlackRock now also saying it. Crypto ETFs to hit model portfolios towards year-end BlackRock. Investors really want to get their ETH exposure, says BlackRock's ETF investment chief, Samara Cohen, and basically broke down how this will actually be in model portfolios, which is the way that most people, in their opinion, will be investing over the next few years, going from about $4.2 trillion to $10 trillion over that time. And this is what it says. What will happen toward the end of this year and into next year is we will see allocations into model portfolios, which will give us much more of a steer into how investors are using them. So this is even sort of a bit of a furthering, I guess, of the same point,

which is that not only will they finally come online, but they're going to be basically force fed into these portfolios that will be just passively used and we'll see them just add it. You won't have to ask for it. That's exactly right. It'll be the default choice. Just like most investors get exposure to stocks, most investors get exposure to stocks. Most investors get exposure to bonds. Most investors are going to have a small allocation to crypto. And this will introduce sort of a persistent bid into the crypto market because, of course, people put more money into their retirement accounts every month. They put more money into their savings accounts every month.

And all of a sudden, this will just allocate to crypto. An important thing I would note for people who aren't familiar with this is this is completely normal. A lot of people wonder, like, are the wirehouses dragging their feet? Are their model portfolio providers being slow in adopting Bitcoin? Actually, the opposite is the case. Usually when ETFs launch, it can take a year or more before they're approved on these wirehouse platforms. We're actually seeing it moving faster than normal on Bitcoin and Ethereum. So this is the normal course of business. You and I have talked about this before, Scott, but most ETFs, their year two inflows dramatically exceed their year one inflows.

And I think that's going to happen on Bitcoin. I'm pretty certain it's going to happen on Ethereum. And it'll happen on other crypto asset ETPs if and when we see those launch. I think it's also interesting this lines up effectively with the election, roughly. A lot of this will come online. It lines up with the parabolic part of the four-year cycle if we get that again, that six to eight months after the halving period where we really start to see price appreciation. There's so many tailwinds here. Fed rate cuts, yeah, model portfolio adoption, leverage being allowed in these Bitcoin ETFs and margin. There's a lot of mechanics behind the scene. That's a big deal. Yeah, there's a tremendous

amount of positive catalysts. And I think the market is just waiting for some of the election-related uncertainty to be removed. And they're waiting for these mechanical steps at the wire houses to actually happen. So I think you may have left before the speech. Is that right? I did, yeah. You left the conference. Is that right? I did, yeah. You left the conference. Yes.

But I'm sure you heard it or listened to it or heard about it. I mean, we talk about the election uncertainty. What did you think of it in general? I watched the speech through your live streams, Scott, on my Southwest flight home. Perfect. Wow, the technology.

The fact that I could even get it going, it crashed twice, but luckily he gave us 45 minutes of waiting, thinking he was going on stage, but it did stay on. But the fact that I could get that going in that room barely with no signal that you could somehow watch it on Southwest is a marvel of technology to be quite honest. It is pretty amazing, but, uh, But that's what I was doing on my flight. Pretty incredible. I mean, you know, the speech was rambly and, you know, difficult for people to follow a little bit. But I think if you step back, and I've been thinking about this a lot over the past few days, if you step back and think what just happened at this conference. You had the Republican nominee for president who's leading in the polls

saying we need a national Bitcoin stockpile. You had other senators or presidential candidates saying the US should buy one to four million Bitcoin and hold them. You had people say we should fire Gary Gensler. You had Democrats come out on stage and make the case for a reset of crypto. And you had the Harris campaign leak stories to the press about resetting their relationship on crypto. And then this morning, you have the CEO of Goldman Sachs coming out and saying that Bitcoin could be a store of value. I missed that completely. Yeah, it came out this morning on CNBC. So we have the world's largest asset manager being a major believer in Bitcoin,

the CEO of Goldman Sachs saying it could be a store of value. You have the presidential nominee for the Republican Party announcing building a Bitcoin Fort Knox effectively. These are just incredible. 20 months ago, it was FTX. And now we have this. I don't know. I think we have to reset our view of what's possible in Bitcoin. All of a sudden, the crazy ideas of, you know, half million dollar Bitcoin, million dollar Bitcoin have to be within the Overton window of possibility based on the conversation on the ground.

I'm reading, I'm just was looking it up right now. It's crazy. It's on CNBC from the Olympics. David Solomon said Bitcoin could have a use case as a store of value. David Solomon, also a part-time DJ for those who didn't know about him, which always makes me giggle as a former part-time DJ, full-time, part-time DJ. But yeah, like I said, I see nothing but tailwinds. As for the speech I wrote, for anyone who missed it, I wrote a very, very, this is the longest newsletter I've ever written. I started last night and I basically just didn't stop until this morning, but I broke down and included literally the entire speech and all of my thoughts on it is on the stack today, including Lummis. It's a lot. And if you didn't want my opinion, I actually published a video last night, Bitcoin and Trump,

which was sort of other people's opinions on the ground. I just interviewed a bunch of people right afterwards. But listen, I mean, what I've surmised from thinking about this quite a lot is exactly what you did. Like the nuance of the speech doesn't matter. If you loved Trump, you loved the speech because it was like a classic stump speech if you'd never heard trump speak for 45 minutes you were baffled and disillusioned and then that's just what i heard from people because it was five percent crypto 95 percent uh him saying whatever he kind of felt like and you know like a lot of the quotes were really disingenuous you know at the end it's sort of like, have fun playing with your bitcoins and your toys, guys.

Like, you know, and you kind of laugh, but it's Trump. And that's what Trump does. And what was the most impactful to me was that he said, I'm going to bring in a strategic advisory council and it's going to be people from this industry. Like, I don't know. I don't care if he knows anything about Bitcoin, if he's going to bring in people who do and listen to them. And we'll see if that actually happens. But that's the net positive. At first, my thing was, he doesn't know anything about this. But how many 78-year-old guys who heard about Bitcoin three months ago can speak in any sort of educated manner? So I'm going to give the benefit of

the doubt that many people like him are just on that path to orange pill that we've seen so many people go down. 100% true. If you put this into another industry and imagine, does he know the technical details of gene editing? Probably not either, right? We're just so entrenched in crypto that we expect it. But it was overtly positive. And it wasn't just Trump. There were so many senators and congressmen at this Bitcoin conference. Tim Scott, senator from South Carolina, is line 79 on the conference speaker page. There were so many they had to stuff in there. I mean, it's absolutely incredible. I really do think, you know, even the most hardened Bitcoin skeptics have to look at what's going on in the market, in DC,

on Wall Street, and ask themselves, are they so sure that this is not a real thing? I mean, you know, Goldman Sachs, BlackRock, senators, congressmen, both sides of the aisle. It's absolutely incredible to my mind what's going on right now. Yeah, the biggest announcements were completely buried i said that like rfk's speech was insanely incredible and it was you know out of the news cycle by five minutes afterwards what it comes up from canter fitzgerald and says we're gonna you know do two billion dollar business in collateralizing by the way tether again is fully backed.

Also, we own literally said a shitload of Bitcoin. Like Cantor Fitzgerald. That would have been like another institution saying they own a shitload of Bitcoin used to actually be news. That's exactly right. Yes. Or one congressman maybe leaving Congress

saying a positive thing used to be news. And you can see how this window of possibility gets stretched i mean let's talk about the rfk speech which was incredible he said something that sounds so absurd to people which is the u.s should acquire four million bitcoin for that worries me i love him but i don't know if i want the u.s government to own 20 percent of the bitcoin there is is 25% with the lost Bitcoin. Yeah, that is a legitimate question. But then he provides his reason, which is the US owns 19% of the gold market. And we should own a similar position in Bitcoin.

And this stretches the window of what's possible. So all of a sudden, Senator Lummis saying we should own a million Bitcoin, right, which is a quarter of that four or 5%. That seems much more reasonable. And you start to see these ideas sort of stretch out in the DC sphere. I think it's remarkable. I loved her speech. I love that she actually proposed legislation that will hit the Senate floor, whether it furthers or not. Some of her numbers were so fishy, I was just confused. She said that buying that would

cut the debt in half. I don't know how buying that much Bitcoin cuts our runaway debt that we're adding a trillion to every 90 days in half, but you know what? I'm here for it. That's all right. We have an Inflation Reduction Act that spent $2 trillion or something. Wow, man. That's how you carry the one. It's like the guy with the charts and the conspiracy theories. That's how you reduce debt. That is true. That is true.

So listen, I think we had these Ethereum spot ETF launches to minimal fanfare, I would say, for various reasons, right? I think, A, you already got the Bitcoin one, so it becomes just lesser and lesser news. I think someone said it was kind of like Apollo 10. We land on the moon, and then the next guys who land on the moon say, okay, whatever, we've been to the moon. Right? Big deal. And obviously, in this part of the cycle, and it obviously also launched right into the conference and all the chat about Bitcoin and Trump. But it's going pretty much as we expected.

So there was an article kind of breaking down the first week by numbers. They had 1.5 billion in net outflows from EFE, which we expected, but a billion other dollars came into the other eight. So there's actually quite a bit of buying of these things. It's just, we knew that with a 2.5% fee, EFE was going to be even more dramatic than GBTC was. And you've already seen a reduction now of over 20%, I think, of ETH, maybe even more. Yeah, yeah. And you have to remember, a lot of those ETH people have taxable gains, so they can't reinvest 100% of what they sell into the other products. So there's going to

be some bleed out. But that's a one time story. I would look at the other side of the equation over a billion dollars in one week is outrageous from an ETF perspective. It's happened one or two times in history. You know, the BlackRock ETF is over half a billion dollars. We're over a quarter billion dollars a bit wise. And I don't think that's going to slow down anytime soon. You know, I've had I probably had six or seven meetings with advisory firms in the past few days that managed more than $10 billion in assets. And right here there. Yeah, there you go. Exactly.

Yeah, it was it was 10 a.m. Monday morning. I spoke with $100 billion advisory firm. And they're, you know, they're thinking about how should they build their crypto portfolio, their default position is probably going to be something like two, two part Bitcoin, one part ETH, they're going to hold both of these assets eventually. And like the BlackRock story said, I bet it will be in model portfolios in the next year or so. This is a multi year story. But the first week was, from my view, a success, right? A billion dollars into these new ETFs. And I expect flows to accelerate from there. I think it's going to

eventually look like a big success. Yeah. And I think a billion inflow is a big success. It's just always, it's exactly the same. And we literally, this is one of those times when it was kind of obvious and we were probably going to be right. People are going to sell this thing. It's going to be a lot of selling. But when they're done selling, this is such a smaller asset. Those inflows are going to have such a meaningful impact. Also, I mean, if you look at even just a coin market cap today, I was surprised based on that, taking a look that actually over the last 24 hours, Bitcoin's down 4.3%, but ETH is flat. So actually, if you look at the ETH BTC chart, ETH has been wildly outperforming the last like

three days. It's been a bad week, but they've picked up momentum. And with the selling of ETH, I was actually quite surprised. So that kind of showed me something. I think that's right. And there's also another side to this, which is you have to look at what's happening in Bitcoin right now with Wall Street coming around with the Goldman Sachs statement this morning. That's driven in part by the success of the Bitcoin ETFs. And now we're having the same thing with Ethereum. All of a sudden, there's going to be, you know, thousands of conversations on Wall Street about what Ethereum is. Should we be building projects on Ethereum? I think you're going to see dozens of banks launching tokenized treasury funds on ETH like BlackRock did.

These ETFs do more than just attract assets. They move these crypto conversations firmly into the mainstream. I think we've seen that with Bitcoin. We're going to see that with Ethereum over the next six months. Yeah, I think so too. I see people in the chat saying, what about Solana ETF? I mean, you know my views on this, Scott. I think it's a low probability, high impact event. So it's unlikely under the current SEC regime that we're going to get a Solana ETF. I would even say probably impossible. There's never

been an ETF launched in the commodity space without a parallel futures market. There's no sole futures market like there is a Bitcoin and ETH futures market. So basically, it's just not going to happen. But you've had some great firms file for Solana ETFs. I think they're smart. And the reason they're smart is there's at least a 50% chance, and I would say probably a 75% chance of a major regulatory reset towards crypto within the next six months. And if we get that reset, then we could find our pathway to a Solana ETF. So yeah, you use the word reset. And that's the word everyone's saying with Kamala Harris and the Democrats is that she's looking for a reset with the crypto industry.

We've taken it as a foregone conclusion, I think, in this industry that Trump's going to win. I mean, I think we have to entertain the possibility that he does not. Guys, that's not a opinion on the election. i'm just saying there's two people running you know but it's a possibility that either of them could could win a lot can change do we think that there's massive implications to her winning like we have this bitcoin's future could be tied to the outcome of the u.s election election. That's according to Jeffries, obviously saying Republican good, Democrat bad. I'll save you guys reading it and do the TLDR. And Burns seeing Trump that crypto is no longer a bipartisan issue, obviously because of Trump's speech. Right. So clearly, clearly the market views, an analyst view, a Republican victory is much better for the industry. But when I hear you talk about Morgan Stanley and all these people coming online, it seems like the politics don't matter that much if we get the flows.

Yeah, I think, look, I think there's a non-political bull market in crypto right now, as there has been for the last 15 years. Right. Bitcoin hasn't gone from zero to seventy thousand,000 on the back of political support. And it will continue to progress almost regardless of what happens in the election. Morgan Stanley, etc. But I do think the election matters. You know, I said a 75% chance of a reset, which was taking your view. Let's say it's a 50-50 chance of the election. And we know that the Republicans winning would be good for crypto,

a regulatory reset. On the Democratic side, we don't know, right? We don't know yet. Will Harris embrace the Warren wing, which is hostile to crypto, or the more progressive, you know, Ro Khanna style approach to crypto, in which case there'd be a regulatory reset. So let's call that a 50-50 chance. So add those together, you have a 75% chance of a regulatory reset in November. Otherwise, it's the status quo. And we've been doing okay in the status quo, but it wouldn't be good for crypto. But I think that's pretty good odds, right? I'll take a three out of four chance of a major regulatory driven bull market in crypto starting at the end of this year. Yeah, I think we're also just acquiring more allies along the way in that process. So

even the worst case scenario maybe softens to some degree because it'll become so politically unpopular. I think that's right. I think that's why you're saying, I mean, it is notable, like the Harris campaign was relatively new and did float this thought bubble of a crypto reset with the Financial Times. It's received somewhat of a hostile response from the crypto industry, which I understand. But those media articles don't appear out of nothing. They appear for a reason. So I do think they're at least thinking about it. And it's probably going to be better than the status quo. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And I mean, I just read through all these articles of what's happening. I'm clicking through them right now. And it's just mostly bad takes. I think it's just going to kind of be fine.

And it'll probably be better if we get Republicans. I think that's probably right. I mean, again, you know, the industry has come a long way in the last four years in an overtly hostile environment. Right. And now we have more allies, as you said, Wall Street is now almost firmly behind crypto. That's a major catalyst. I think we mentioned at the top. There's the unlocking of these Bitcoin ETFs. There's an improving macro environment with reduced Fed rates, etc. There are multiple tailwinds. It's not just a regulatory tailwind. But I think that's going to break in our direction as well. I'm just extremely bullish for the second kind of a head scratcher. Obviously, Trump said, we won't sell any more Bitcoin that we get. Of course, that kind of, if you read between the lines, is like we seized it from people and we're just going to keep it. So there's maybe some unpopularity like keeping Bitfinex tokens that are Bitcoin that maybe the government shouldn't be keeping, but I think very good for that strategic stockpile. And then within hours, we saw that the Silk Road tokens at the United States government moved. So they did the deal with Coinbase. So just guys, realize this

could be just actually moving these tokens into custody on Coinbase now that the US Marshals did that deal and the DOJ. But the speculation, obviously, is that these are about to be sold, which seems like if the Harris campaign is literally trying to do a reset with the market, you wouldn't want to take the tokens that Donald Trump said would be held as a stockpile and dump them on the open market before he gets into office. Yeah, yeah. I actually read that as similar to that, but a little bit different, which is this was probably planned and the path just continued along that plan. But that does tell you that it's not a pressing enough issue that the campaign would step in and say, we have to stop this, right? All they needed

was one crypto savvy advisor on the campaign to say this would be received extremely poorly at this time, and they could have probably stopped it and that didn't happen so it's not a great look um but i'm trying to keep an open mind so next year the conference is in vegas is that as terrifying to you as it is to me what could go wrong? That's an unbelievable choice. I mean, I just can't imagine. It's terrifying. It is terrifying.

Do you remember, did you ever watch Beavis and Butthead? Literally the first thing I thought was, my liver, my liver, my liver, my liver. Can you see all that? Nashville is a pretty big party city. Miami is a pretty big party city. Miami is a pretty big party city. But I have this horrible vision of everyone finally going home at 2.30 or 3 a.m. from the parties, having to get up at 8 and then having to pass a craps table on the way. I wonder if it's going to be the single most profitable night in Vegas history. I mean, there's maybe the Super Bowl or something, but it's going to be a lot of money and a lot of gambling ethos coming to town. I think it literally depends on the price of Bitcoin.

I remember the stories that were like Bitcoin conference in Miami. Great. And it was that it was the highest grossing the clubs had ever done. And it was the crypto bros had taken over Miami and paying $50,000 for a table. And then the next year it was like Miami clubs down 85% of the Bitcoin conference. That's true. That's fair. If it's a ripping bull market, I think it's the number one day in Vegas in a long time. All right, Matt. Well, thank you so much. Always love the perspective. I think it's just important for people to realize that you can just chill and wait it's coming it doesn't we can't necessarily speak we know it should do for price we can't necessarily speak to price but all the catalysts we've been talking about and waiting for they're coming it's

there's no stopping I agree that's what I see all right Matt well I hope I see you in person before uh a crap stable at 3am.m. in Vegas next year. Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Scott. Thank you so much. All right, guys. Always love getting that perspective from Matt. And of course, we all love what Bitwise is doing for the industry.

And if you're going to buy, I'm not just shill, but if you're going to buy an ETF, why not buy the one from the guys that are out there on the roadshow every single day? Time for Arch Public. Andrew Vegas, dude, I need your opinion on this. What? Listen, the most time I've ever spent in Vegas was three days.

And three days is enough, man. Five days of a conference in Vegas sounds like, I don't know what it sounds like. It sounds like a recipe for, you know, having to say over and over what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, right? You have to be repeating that for a couple weeks after five days in Vegas. Well, you can count on me to be videoing and live streaming at all. Yeah, not to mention- Nothing will stay in Vegas if I get my hands on you guys. You're going to bring 30,000, 35,000 people

that kind of started their journey in Bitcoin and crypto as degenerate gamblers to the capital of degenerate gambling in the world. It's wild. I mean, it's wild. Now, I understand why they're doing it because of the scale and the size of this thing gets bigger and bigger.

Oh, I'm not mad at him. I'm just saying, Holy crap. Yeah. It's, uh, it's wild. Nashville was fantastic. Um, the, the upgrade, so to speak in the, um, IQ of the collective folks that are, that conference was noticeable. There wasn't a whole lot of tomfoolery. By the way, we should use that phrase, that word a little more, tomfoolery. I think it got canceled by people named Tom. Probably. But there wasn't a whole lot of foolishness, you know, really to be found. Serious stuff. You know, Matt just mentioned that, you know, Senator Tim Scott was like the 67th guy, you know, listed on the speaker list. Like three years ago, he would have been the third person listed on the speaker list. Like that's that is that is a harbinger of what's to come in the following years. You guys talked about the election and the way things can go. And there seems to be,

obviously, there's kind of an obsession in the Bitcoin world with where things go from an electoral standpoint. But Bitcoin has seen that, what, 2012, 2016, 2020, this will be its fourth election cycle. And if I'm not mistaken, each cycle, it just goes higher. Am I crazy? Right. So each cycle, yeah, it just simply goes higher. So, sure. Would it be nice to have a regulatory environment that's a little warm and fuzzy? Of course. Is it tough to work through a regulatory environment that's that's harder and got real edge to it? Sure. But at the same time, you've got David Solomon, the CEO of Goldman Sachs on CNBC this morning,

saying that, you know, Bitcoin has a real case for a store of value. Right. And behind the curtain, why is David Solomon saying that? Because Goldman Sachs is an authorized participant in handling lots and lots of Bitcoin transactions on a daily basis for BlackRock's iBit product, which is the most popular ETF that BlackRock has ever, ever launched. So follow the money, man. And that's not going to change. That's never going to change for Bitcoin on a go forward basis. If you're BlackRock and you've gathered nearly $25 billion in Bitcoin assets in essentially seven months, you are incentivized to evangelize the Bitcoin story for

all sorts of reasons, right? For the record, guys, equally tied for the best moment of the conference, I also met for the first time in person, Andrew and Tillman, and we went to a banging dinner that you guys, thank you very much. Yeah, we did. Kane Prime is killer. It never disappoints. Like popcorn and cotton candy. What did the waiters say that this is considered

the steakhouse of what? What did he call it? He's called it the steakhouse equivalent of Willy Wonka and then I think I continue to have drinks and just second-handedly mocked them relentlessly. He kept it. And then remember he said that?

And then every time we turned around, he disappeared. And I was like, wow, it really is Willy Wonka. It really is Willy Wonka. He continues to disappear. He kept vanishing. It was very, it was hilarious. Yeah, it was great to spend time with ArchPublic clients,

with Scott and his folks and Tillman and our folks. It was a good time had by all. What's interesting about the Bitcoin conference and when people actually get together. A client that we have

has got other assets other than public, you know, products and is looking to do something with, you know, an amount of land that he has in Texas. And so at the Bitcoin conference, because Tillman has been a Bitcoin miner for such a long time, he has relationships with, you know, publicly traded mining companies and was able to make connections with the CEOs and CFOs of those companies on behalf of this client that we have to see if there's ways that they can work together to use that land for Bitcoin mining and put a deal together. And what was remarkable about that is how quickly that happened, how quickly those executives reached out to this guy to begin a dialogue. And that that goes to show that the you know, the the ecosystem, you know, play out in real time with real people.

And so, you know, for all that conversation. Yeah, that guy's awesome. Yeah, he is, you know, for privacy sake, I'll keep his name out of it but he is a really really really really great guy and and uh um somebody that again is you know committed to bitcoin and trying to figure out ways to um you know use his assets in a um in a smart way um and to generate frankly um more bitcoin so speaking of using assets in a smart way we all know that the best way to do that is dollar cost averaging. This is a nice segue, guys. Yeah.

So I'm not going to open my mouth because I don't know how much you've shared a lot. And I was there for a lot of meetings, so I don't want to say anything out of turn. But at least it's here. It is on Seeking Alpha. Our public analysis Bitcoin algorithm for both retail and institutional investors is a way to dollar cost average down to like every 30 seconds. Right. So like, so you wonder why the implications, everyone's like, I heard the questions, right there. They say, well, I can buy it every day on Coinbase. Why do I need to buy it more than every day? Ask Michael Saylor. Yeah, this is like Michael Saylor was able to buy hundreds of

millions of Bitcoin without moving the market a single inch by doing this. And this is a way to do it really cheap and with minimal fees. It's really incredible if you dig into it. Yeah. Our product that's going to allow you to harness the true compounding power of Bitcoin is going to be, it's going to be released. We've set a date of August 15th and we're going to release a ton of data associated with different ways that you can use this tool. And what does it mean for your portfolio?

So if you've got one hundred thousand dollars and you decide over a two year period or a five year period or even a one year period to use the tool in all sorts of different scenarios, picking and choosing different timeframes, picking and choosing different percentages of your portfolio. We're finalizing a document right now that says if you just put 2% of your portfolio into Bitcoin and allow this tool to do that on your behalf without you having to think about it, without you having to do anything other than set it and forget it. I mean, it's literally like putting a trade desk into your pocket, right? This allows you to make those purchases and then

benefit from the reality that is. Say you're buying in you know, in an aggregate, a percentage that will equal over the point of a year, that 2% number, but you're doing it three times a day. Well, what does the last 21 days look like? How does it smooth out that performance of going from 54 to 66, 67, you know, where we're at right now. The profit factor associated with moves like that, the, you know, percentage gains are there. They are truly, truly dramatic. Most people are, most people that have bought Bitcoin have made a one-time decision and I'm going to buy $10,000 of Bitcoin three years ago or this, that, or the other. If that is changed up, if they choose to do it in a different way and do it in a programmatic way, the benefits and the percentage returns are so dramatically higher, it's hard to quantify.

We think that this will end up being our most successful and popular algorithm. We can't say yet who our partner is going to be to purchase spot Bitcoin in a programmatic way. I know who it might be, but I'm not going to tell you guys. That's why I said I'm not allowed to open my fat mouth. But it's going to be a truly awesome product. And it's going to be the kind of thing where you're betting on the opportunity and value of Bitcoin, both short term and long term. And you almost with this tool, you're almost you're almost excited when there are dips in the price because you're getting it at a lower price. And you know that there's a reason and a why behind doing it so awesome stuff love that so i was going to give an update the 10 000 portfolio we have the last four trades right but it's it's the same as the last update because this thing is conservative and it only takes trades in the perfect ideal moment so we're at twelve

thousand seven hundred dollars aka 27 percent gain on the 10,000 portfolio. It's about two months, right? Yeah, yeah. Right. So to put it into perspective, how careful it is with taking trades, it's only taken six trades in the last 60 days, right? And so the only negative feedback

that we get on this product is, why know, why does it take more trades? I want a little more action, right? Well, we continue to pound the table on patients' performance. And so, you know, 27% over the last 90 plus days, that's pretty remarkable performance, right? And it's hands-free. It's stress remarkable performance. Right. And it's hands free. It's stress free. It's allowing, you know, an algorithm to make decisions for you when you probably can't make those same decisions and make those same trades and come out to the good. So we love the product. Our customers love the product. We have an 87 percent returning customer rate in this product,

which I don't know what you know about any product where you're re-upping on a monthly basis. That's a very, very high return rate. So yeah, people love it. The benefits speak for themselves. And then we go up from there. One thing that needs to be said, and I want to make

sure that this gets set on on the the uh the stream today we have other products that are more risky that take more trades and we'll lose money that your is bigger than the two percent stop loss protections that we have in eighty percent of our products um we have a NASDAQ product that a couple of weeks ago took a downturn and took a hit. And so we want to be transparent that when we speak with clients and customers that choose some of our more aggressive products that don't have stop loss protection, sure, that particular product may have 74% win rates over the course of the last 20 years, but there are moments where there are going to be drawdowns. So in any investment, there's going to be risk, and we want to be transparent and clear about the risk associated

with all of our products. And so we give people that information when they come to us and they commit, whether it's 100K or 200K to our strategies. We want to be clear about what that looks like. So we do have products that are much more aggressive than what you just looked at, take way more trades, and at times are going to have drawdowns. But over time, the value of those algorithms and the uptick that you get, that particular algorithm that I'm talking about, it's returned something like 1,300 and some odd percent in the last 10 years. So if you have a 10, 20, 25 percent drawdown inside of that 1300 percent, you know, it's all in perspective.

Right. It's in perspective. And unfortunately, sometimes it's just timing. Yeah. Yeah. If you start to get 10 wins or if you start to get five losses, the bit. Right. Right. Dramatically. But that can't be can't be controlled which is why like long term is what matters but yeah it can be brutal for people yeah it's just it's why it's important to to be clear and concise and transparent with people that we have more aggressive products we have more conservative products people get to make those choices themselves and you know we have a service team that is there when people have questions and concerns. We don't get a lot of phone calls and questions and concerns when their accounts just keep going up.

We can get them when there are trades that go in the opposite direction. They're like, well, wait, what's happening? What's going on? So, you know, we're here for people. And even I get on calls with folks when they have thoughts or concerns or want a little bit of a little background. Right. So yeah, happy to do it. There's a few questions here before I let you go that I just want, since we're here, right. I ask every week,

how do I get in touch with the arch public guys before investing? They've always said, hop on a zoom call. Answer your questions. So it's very simple. Go to our website thearchpublic.com um if you scroll down just a little bit there um scott uh right there okay go back up where the guy's face is that's one of our customers says yeah book a demo so just click that thing we probably should make that button a little bit bigger um but if you go in there you're going to find a calendar and be able to put yourself on a calendar. So let's do it. Let's book a demo.

See what happens. There you go. Look at all those slots. Come on, guys. Plenty of slots. Is that your Calendly? I just shared your Calendly on YouTube. I just clicked I prefer being mediocre, by the way.

People are very surprised when they get on a call and it's me. They don't expect to get the co-founder of the company or the guy that's on these streams. And I said, listen, it's important that you see my face, Tillman and I's faces, our visibility. It's a secondary version of our commitment to our products right if our products if our work was not as legit and all those things listen come on twitter and flame us out of existence that doesn't happen hasn't happened for years so um we we we love our products we love our team we love what we do and we love serving the Bitcoin community. And our upcoming product on August 15th, I'm wearing a Bitcoin colored shirt as we speak,

is going to be, yeah, it's going to be. So are there fees on recurring buys? There's not going to be fees from us, ArchPublic, but the provider that we're going to work with, I will say this, part of our conversations with them is greatly reducing any fees that are associated with those buys down to a spot where you're getting what I would call remarkably competitive rates versus other exchanges. Let's say that. How about this? How do these

algorithmically trained products work with taxes? Does every trade keep record of the cost basis? Yeah. So the exchanges that we work with, they're regulated and they're demanded by their regulators to provide high level tax reporting services. In other words, at the end of the year, you push a button on that exchange and they're gonna give you all of your tax information in seconds, they have to do that. I will say, how do they work with taxes? 80% of our products trade futures contracts.

So that means that you're getting reduced tax rate based on tax law called the 60-40. And this one isn't selling, so, but yes, it does need to keep your cost basis, but it's not selling. Right, correct. There's no taxable events on this algorithm at all. Right, so when it comes to the Bitcoin algorithm,

you're not, now to be fair, there will be an update about three months after we launch this that will give you the algorithmic ability to sell your Bitcoin algorithmically, right? So, but currently you're just going to be buying Bitcoin and there's no taxable event if you don't sell it. Right. That is correct. All of our other algorithms are tax advantaged based on the tax laws associated with

trading futures. Right, exactly. So I think that we've covered most of it. Do we cover it all? Yeah. I showed the website. We've covered it. Yeah. I can tell you, man, I saw it on the ground. I hear it all the time. There's been the only with the NASDAQ product, there was some drawdown for a brief period. I

heard about that too. We talked about it. You're very transparent about it, obviously. But largely, people are just like coming up to you guys. I saw it in person. Thank you. Do high five. Love it. Yeah. I'm adding more, you know, can't wait for the new algorithms. It's been extremely positive. And also it's, uh, as I keep saying, like, it's allowed me to hone in, I think on who really watches us and who really deeply cares. It's been very interesting demographic, my age, older, our age. Yes. You know, people who actually are serious and care and bring their kids to

conferences to teach them about money and, you know, and maybe not, maybe people aren't watching me to figure out which. You know, it's a testament to your audience, which, of course, is a testament to the quality of your work, Scott. You know me. You've spent some time with me now. Personally, I'm not one to blow smoke where it doesn't need to be blown. But at the same time, the proof is in the pudding. So the people that we talk to that come from your audience are 50 plus. They've made smart decisions with their money.

They're, they've also been smart enough to understand that, that Bitcoin is an uncorrelated asset that they think they should have more and more capital in. So it, the proof, again, the proof is in the pudding. Your audience is a smart, high IQ audience. And you know, it's, it's a testament to what you do on a daily basis um yeah it's just a testament and it's a testament to your reach by the way to get guests like matt for bitwise to be on your show like the guests that you bring on are are remarkable you know folks in the space like bitwise is a remarkable company right like to some degree we all hate Grayscale for all the right reasons. Bitwise is the anti-Grayscale. They've been at it almost as long as Grayscale.

It's just that they've never done the terrible things that Grayscale has done. Bitwise was selling ETF products before ETFs were approved and their products were on the shelves of wealth management organizations in a different way. And kind of like this is an ETF, but it's not really an ETF. So it's, you know, we positioned it. Bitwise is they they are high high quality people great company and couldn't agree more man it was great spending some time uh in nashville it will be less memorable in vegas because i won't remember it and that's all we got so we'll be back obviously next tuesday guys of course like i you know we tell you just go check out arch public, set a call. I, it was funny.

You were like people are really surprised when they set a call and like I show up. Yeah. Yeah. You show up and they're like, Oh, I expect there to be like a sales guy. I'm like, well, we do have sales guys, but you know, I like to show up and chat with people and answer questions directly. Pretty awesome. All right, guys, that's all we got for you today. If you are looking for more insight on the conference, I do have those videos up. I'm sure that will become in the rear view over the coming days.

That's about all we got for you. Until next time, thank you, Andrew. You bet. Guys, see you tomorrow. Bye.