The Wolf Of All Streets - Grant Cardone’s $22 Billion Mistake & How He’s Fixing It With Bitcoin

Episode Date: August 17, 2025

In this episode, Scott Melker sits down with real estate mogul Grant Cardone to explore the powerful intersection of real estate and Bitcoin. Grant shares why he favors hard assets over stocks, how he built a multi-billion-dollar portfolio merging premium real estate with Bitcoin, and the strategy behind his groundbreaking fund structure. The conversation also dives into market trends, the future of crypto in real estate, and Grant’s advice for young investors. Whether you’re focused on cash flow, Bitcoin exposure, or both, this episode delivers candid insights and real-world examples from one of today’s most influential investors.

You know, money's no good anymore, right? So it's like money wants to find, you know, Fiat wants to find some place. So I was introduced to Bitcoin in 2012. I remember seeing BTC and Bitcoin. I didn't even know they were related. Since I was 30 years old, I've been converting fiat to real estate.

That was, I believe, better than the paper, right? This most recent one is the largest real estate Bitcoin deal ever done on planet Earth. It's a $235 million dollar trophy, Sophie, best in class, 366 units in Boca Raton, and we added $100 million of Bitcoin to it. The thing is you've got to find a vehicle to invest in, not 10 vehicles. Young people should not be diversifying. They should be going all in on one thing.

All I did was convert something that wasn't mine, Fiat, into something else that was better, which is all I've been doing with Fiat anyway, my whole life. I own 14,000 apartments that we put together over the last 25 years. And I started slowly tinkering with the idea of using some of the cash flow from the real estate to buy Bitcoin on a monthly basis. This is Scott Malker, host of the Wolf of All Streets podcast here with Grant Cardone to talk markets. Grant, let's just start with the broad strokes. How are you viewing everything that's happening right now? We've got basically an everything bull market.

It seems like everything's at all-time highs. No headline matters. It doesn't matter if we're doing tariffs or austerity or doge. Everything's up. Dude, it's just money's no good anymore, right? So it's like money wants to find, you know, Fiat wants to find some place to go live. And I don't understand the stock market. I mean, you know, I'm just, I can't make sense of it.

I've been watching this game now since I was 20 years old. And I don't understand stocks and the valuation. And it's gotten worse over the last 10 years. Like, there's so many zombie companies sitting there. It's just financial engineering on steroids, bro. It's like a piece of paper, took a piece of fiat, turned into it. to another piece of paper, had some bank put their name behind it rather than God in the military. And somehow it goes up more than a piece of paper that's got God on it.

Like I don't get it. So we invest in hard assets, you know, real estate and Bitcoin. We put them together. We merge them. And I wait for the printing press to roll again because I know it will. So you've been in real estate forever, obviously. You've made a fortune doing so. So the Bitcoin part's a little bit newer. So maybe we'll talk about, A, how you got, as we like to call it in the industry, orange-pilled. Yeah. And then how you moved so incredibly quickly.

I don't even know, actually, I introduced your brother, Gary, to Staler. I think at the Bitcoin conference a year and a half ago or so. And then I know you guys went and had a meeting, and that was part of the process. Yeah. So I was introduced to Bitcoin in 2012, maybe 2013. somewhere around there. I was asked to go to a speaking gig in Las Vegas and the guy said, look, I can't pay grants fee except in Bitcoin. And the president of the company said, no, no, we don't want Bitcoin. We want money. And I heard him and I'm like, bro, like I'm in

Vegas anyway. One, I'm already there. Two, I like helping people. The guy's offering me chance to go you know use my gifts um whatever gifts i have and and and maybe inspired group of people to do better and the fact that we don't understand the bitcoin shouldn't be and i didn't look i knew nothing about bitcoin probably didn't know how to spell it at the time and i remember seeing btc and bitcoin i didn't even know they were related so uh but i also knew show up say yes uh i thought i'd flip it. I said, I'll just flip it and get my cash. And I didn't. I never, I never sold it. Wow. Just forgot about it. And, you know, it was, I think to date it's the best speaking gig I've ever done. I was a DJ for 20 years before I got into all this. And in 2011 or 12, I can't remember someone

offered to pay me $5,000 in Bitcoin. And I said the exact same thing. No, I want money. So let's to say that that's the biggest miss of an engagement that I ever had in my life because I didn't take it. Yeah. Yeah, well, this was, this was 115 pieces. So, um, you did fine. Yeah. And I still, I still own that Bitcoin today. And then what I did was I started, when I saw it do it, start watching this, you know, doing his thing. See, see, my onboarding was owning ownership. It wasn't an education, which is I've always believed you earn and then you learn. you know once you earn something once you earn it you had a score with it um once you win then you're then you become more curious about how to win again and that's what happened for me in bitcoin i didn't

read the bitcoin standard i didn't spend a hundred hours on it i basically had an experience it was positive nobody tried to talk me into it and as i paid attention to its price volatility i started becoming more and more interested in it. I own, you know, I own 14,000 apartments that we put together over the last 25 years. And I started slowly tinkering with the idea of using some of the cash flow, Scott from the real estate, to buy Bitcoin on a monthly basis. And then I started playing with, you know, the calculations or what if I had to convert all that money?

I've done extremely well in real estate. lots of cash flow over long periods of time, slowly just starts going up, you know, because of inflation. And I looked at, you know, what if I did a little bit? What if I did it all? And I started putting it in some of these calculators that show you, hey, if I'd have done, you know, like I think over the last 12 years, I distributed myself about a million six times 12, whatever that is, a month. yeah we've now do the back calculation for bitcoin obviously yeah and i'm like okay i'm worth like i think i think it was four billion or six billion dollars or something without and i wouldn't have done anything doing zero work you know no work all i did was all i would have done was convert something that wasn't mine fiat into something else it was better which is all i've been doing with fiat anyway my whole life since i was 30 years old i've been converting fiat to real estate

that was, I believe, better than the paper, right? Yeah. And that's really what I was never against Bitcoin. I was like, I don't understand a lot of these cryptos. I always said, I think the one that wins is Bitcoin. I don't really understand them enough. And until I do understand it, I'm not going to promote it to anybody. And now this year, we met with Gary, myself, and Michael Saylor met.

And I'm like trying to figure out how to put the. real estate and the Bitcoin together and everybody's telling me, oh, put your real estate on the blockchain and it complicated. I've heard that for three or four years. I wish I'd never heard that, dude, because I would have done what I'm doing right now four years ago. And this year, we put together, we're on our fifth fund where we buy real estate. We had Bitcoin. We merged the two together in an organized LLC. And then we just wait for both of them to do their little they're a little thing. Well, what I find so unique and intelligent about what you're doing,

it's very true to the ethos of Bitcoin, which is there's really no financial engineering. You're just converting income that you're making on the properties into Bitcoin, which is a hedge against the losses of that very income over time. Right? So you're not doing anything crazy. We have Bitcoin Treasury companies, obviously, taking on massive debt, convertible notes, financially engineering their stocks,

all the kind of, I'll say, wizardry that you discussed, at the beginning. You don't have to do any of that. You just take the money you make and put it into something better. Yeah. We started out like that, right? I started out taking real estate that was cash flow positive and basically just taking the passive income from the real estate, converting it to a little piece of Bitcoin, then a little more and a little more. And then in January, we looked at, we took a new asset that we bought. It was 80, they wanted 88 million, million. I got the deal for $72 million. We bought it 30% below replacement costs. And what we did was we just took the difference that I saved between the 72 and the 88 and filled it back up with Bitcoin. It's still cash flowed. I think it was a four or four and a half percent cash flow with the full load together. Now, I would have gotten a little more cash flow if I'd have left the Bitcoin out. But big deal. What was the difference between? I mean, I'd rather a 4% cash flow with the Bitcoin than a five and a half without it.

So we were very conservative. I showed this to Saylor and he says, that's a pussy fund. That's not a fund. He literally called you a pussy, right? Gary, that's your brother's favorite story is that when he was sitting there and watch Michael Saylor call you a pussy. And I said, bro, I, you know, I am a pussy and I got to tell you, I spent half my life chasing it. So I don't even know if that's a bad thing. but we did the first one at 8515 our second third ones were 7525 our fourth one was 50 50 and our

six one i'm sorry our fifth one is one third debt one third real estate equity and one third bitcoin so this last one now this is in a period of five months this most recent one is the largest real estate bitcoin deal ever done on planet earth it's uh $235 million trophy, best in class, 366 units in Boca Raton, $235 million asset, and we added $100 million of Bitcoin to it. Is that as part of the bid, like that you're buying it with Bitcoin, or it's a Bitcoin going straight into the fund or both? We bought the real estate, okay?

We bought the real estate, closed it out of bankruptcy, grabbed it out. You need to be under replacement costs. or there needs to be some exit story to support the Bitcoin, okay? So it's got to be some exit story where you're like, I'm going to get back to replacement costs and I fill it up, and I'm still cash flow positive. So we bought this trophy from Blackstone bankruptcy. Blackstone wanted to buy it,

but because they were the debt on the deal, they couldn't. So they had to give the marketplace first right. So we went and grabbed it using a fairly complicated process called a stalking horse in the bankruptcy court. And I put 20 million bucks up. I said, I'll buy this property. My price is $2.35. Anybody that comes in over me has to close in 10 days because I will.

So I set the terms and kind of squeeze the marketplace out of the asset, knowing that I was going to add $100 million of Bitcoin. So the property cash flowed, when we bought it in cash flowed, I think it was four and three quarters. without the Bitcoin and then we added the Bitcoin to the organization so we put it all we merge it into an LLC as one entity they're not separate they're merged and that that asset still cash flows at two and a half percent but I have trophy real estate that I can exit with a condo development pick up a hundred million and I got a hundred million dollars of Bitcoin sitting on the balance sheet. Which doesn't average 65% annual return. So that goes up half of that. We give the shit about a 2% cash flow loss if it's a long-term investment and Bitcoin

Bitcoin goes up literally at all. That 2% is a rounding error on a day of price action on big money. Yeah. And Scott, I figured out how to get an $80 million depreciation the day I buy the asset. Because we accelerate the depreciation on the 235. We'll pick up about $80 million dollars worth of depreciation by the way that still owns this bitcoin so i figured out how to buy the bitcoin get the cash flow and get a big tax right off that purchase all i got to do now is take this public and then i'll get another multiple on the on the nav take that specific deal public or a number of these deals a series of deals yeah series of deals man that is brilliant so so for people who are in these funds what's the general length to matured

Obviously, there's an exit if you take them public, but when you're, you know, raising for the, for the funds, what does it look like if people expecting you return in four years, five years, 10 years? I wonder how long with the Bitcoin handicapped, you know, obviously, because we know there'll be bare markets in between and things can happen. Yeah. Well, I'll leave the public thing to the next piece because I can, if I pull off the public piece, then you're liquid five days a week. Right. But in the interim, we don't, we never over leverage anything. I've been buying real estate for 30 years. I've never lost a piece of real estate and I've never lost money on a piece of real estate because the only way to lose them is to pick them

bad and to over leverage them. And we pick, we're very selective. We have 14,000 units. We're only levered to about 40% across $5 billion of real estate. And it's class A shit. So it's great real estate. In this case, we bought this piece of property for $2.35. We already, have a standing agreement at $300 million with a group that wants to take it and condo it. So I'm sitting on $75 million. I can exit, you know, in the next 18 months. One exit, two exit is I don't bring somebody else to condo it. I condo it myself and sell the 366 units for a million dollars each.

Then we pick up $135 million for our investors, flip off the real estate, sell it. pay our capital gains and we own our bitcoin for free third option third option is cancel both of those other two plans uh improve the the the property increase the n oi um put put debt on the asset return the capital remember we got a hundred million dollars of bitcoin or 235 million dollar asset, either one of those can move. Okay, like the Bitcoin moves 10%. Dude, I'm picking up like 30% on the value. Just wait for the next 12, 15, 18, 24 months, and I have an asset worth $450 million

with no debt. I can go take a, let's say I'll have a, I go take a 45% loan out against both assets merged with cash flow, return all the capital to the investment. investors, and we still own both assets without selling them. And I would assume that'll be at a much lower interest rate than we're currently seeing right now. Yeah, I would wait till then, yeah. Fourth exit, fourth exit, put this together with, I only have 45 assets that I control, put this together with any of the other ones that we have Bitcoin on the balance sheet,

pull them together, bring them into an upseat, not a reet, and bring them to the marketplace to go public with them. and then people have liquidity five days a week. Why do you think you haven't seen many people copy your model yet? I've heard rumblings, by the way, of quite a few reits and similar sort of, yeah. The REITs, there's 190 REITs. There's $4 trillion worth of money sitting in public and private REITs. The REITs can never do this.

Their organizational limitations, their rules, their bylaws. they cannot keep Bitcoin or cash on their balance sheet, number one. Number two, I guess you could go de-read a company, have an old shell, which I know a couple guys are trying to do right now. They're going to basically turn it into a treasury. They're going to dispose of all the real estate. They're just going to be a Bitcoin treasury. We're not ever going to be a Bitcoin treasury only.

We're going to be a real estate, utility, dream. driven quality 10x living, providing people with great housing and great locations and great cities. Bitcoin cannot solve every problem in the planet. I was on a space yesterday and they're like, it's going to demonetize everything. I said, bro, like, are you telling me gold, silver, stocks, real estate? Like, you're telling me every Bitcoin is going to become the replacement for every asset class in the world. They believe it's going to be a $400 or $500 trillion asset at that point. I don't think that's happening.

It's just, you know, it's not going away. Like the rest of this stuff, I have to have a place to live. And people still want entertainment and they still want to go to ball games and they still want to drink sodas and, you know, I still need a place to live and a car to drive, maybe, maybe not. all I'm saying to you is like if we could merge these two together now most of the people that are investing with me right now which is very interesting they're not bitcoiners at all I'm sure no and they've never owned Bitcoin and I'm not I'm not having to orange pill them or educate them

or have them read the Bitcoin standard I've probably onboarded more Bitcoiners in the first five months that I've been doing this than most people will in their lifetime that are talking about Bitcoin every day. So who does this? What is the moats for protection? Because I've met with six banks and they had the same concern like anybody can do this. Really? 190 REITs can't do it. Ever, never. It will never be allowed in the reed industry. They control $4 trillion of real estate just in this country. If a hedge fund wanted to do it, I guess they could put a bunch of money together, but I don't care how much money you have. You can't go buy a trophy real estate tomorrow.

You have to have relationships. You have to build a funnel. You have to have a pipeline. You've got to be in, you know, if I wanted to go to New York City to buy real estate tomorrow, that would take months for me to build those relationships. Yeah, trust. You know, so I think we have just basically in a unique position to pull it off

that nobody else can, really. Unless you're going to take a shell, dump the real estate. and become a treasury-only company. But if you're going to be a real estate and Bitcoin company, which I would like to do. See, to me, the goal is to take the pie chart. Let's say the real estate is in this pie chart and 75% of its real estate

and 50% or 25% is Bitcoin. Over the period of four years when you actually do the math on this, the Bitcoin, the orange part of that pie will start to take up 50%, 65%, 75%, 90%, okay, 95% of the pie chart will be filled with Bitcoin, and I'm going to have a sliver real estate. But the sliver of real estate I'm going to have is going to be tens of billions of dollars of quality trophy real estate that comes with rental growth, great locations, very, very difficult to usurp or to replace or to get rid of. And real estate will be worth you know, real estate's going to still be worth a lot of money on this planet, is my belief.

That said, it's an interesting time for the real estate market, obviously. I mean, we've seen sort of historically high pricing for your average individual to own residential real estate. Rates are obviously high, not historically high, but high for the environment that most people would be used to. Do you feel like this is a rough time for people to be looking at residential housing, to be buying commercial real estate, has it become a much more difficult class to invest in?

Yeah, the single family, you know, I don't think you're going to find a deal in the single family. I wouldn't be buying single family right now. And if you do, if you're trying to sell single family, you know what I'm talking about. If you're going to sell it, you need to sell it with, exactly. If you're going to sell it, you need to sell it with owner financing to get a premium. And if you're going to buy it, you should be buying it with owner financing to get a deal.

Now, we don't buy single family homes. When I talk about real estate, I'm talking about multifamily, high quality, great location, real estate, you know, $2,500 rents in major markets. That asset class is getting destroyed right now. And nobody knows about it. I don't know. Nobody's even talking about it. Maybe I know about it because I'm in the space. but the best deals in America right now are in the asset class that I'm talking about.

And then there's office and retail. Like I'm looking at a monster piece of retail right here in Miami. I can't mention the name of it, but if you're in the game, you'd know what it is. And it's, I mean, it's a monster, bro. It's like location is irreplaceable. It'll be Wall Street Journal, top page. you know, it's almost indestructible, if not completely indestructible for long periods of time. Pam, you do that.

We're looking at a hotel next door to that deal I just did in Boka. It would be a five-star manor-in hotel. We would do the hotel and make it a Bitcoin hotel. You know, like Hotel California, this would be Hotel Bitcoin. Well, Bitcoin is Hotel, California. For anybody who's gone down the rabbit hole, you never leave. Right. And you're a perfect example. But I think I want to go back to like the point you made earlier, which is that you could have kind of passively used all this to put into Bitcoin. Your gains would be many multiples, parabolic gains versus what you've made. The thing I find so shocking about Bitcoin and you've clearly seen it is that it's almost too easy for people to accept it. What do you mean too easy? You buy Bitcoin and you do nothing else and you could literally.

go about your life and you'll probably do better than most people most things you put your full efforts into yeah yeah i think that's hard i think that's hard for people to believe you know unless you've been orange filled right and i think there's a lot of different shades of being orange peeled um you know you you're probably you're probably darker orange than i am and um you know trump's probably lightly orange but just an advocate because he knows he's got a lot followers there, but his sons are probably much more orange because they're educated, right? And the more you look at the asset, the more it looks to me like the asset's indestructible. Yeah, did you bring up the Trumps? They're a perfect example of this, right? I mean,

real estate magnate empire known for his real estate investments for multiple decades. Where's the bulk of the Trump family's wealth now? Crypto. More than real estate. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if that's true or not. They own a lot of real estate, man. They own a lot of real estate with very little debt. So I don't know if their Bitcoin's caught up with it, but the Bitcoin's value could very well catch up with it. Well, they have financial, a meme coin, a whole lot of Ethereum, their own token.

So I just meant in aggregate, okay, you might actually be right. It's widely, you know, people say that it's worth more. It may not be. Maybe I should just say they clearly, they clearly see where the puck is moving and they're skating to it yeah and and you know this is what sailor told me when i'm at him you know the other thing that trump people have is a a loyal following and i mean even the people that hate him will invest in him of course so they're like he did a meme coin i'll i'll buy one you know so sailor told me he's like grant you have such a loyal audience and it's

so big and you haven't let them down they've been investing with you in real estate we've raised almost $1.7 billion direct from the retail market. Now, when I say retail, I'm talking about real people, not Fidelity or T-Roe price. When you say retail to investment banker, they think you went through some, you know, Fidelity or Schwab. I'm talking about I actually took a phone call from Bob that put money in a deal and I explained it to him.

So we have this loyal following. And so when we added the Bitcoin piece, what was crazy, and we didn't know this would happen, the quality of our investor went up, the age went up, okay, 80% of them owned no Bitcoin, and 80% had never invested with me. They knew about me. They knew about my funds. One guy has known me for 15 years and never put, very, very qualified. He never put any money in any of my real estate.

state. Trust me like I'm a son. And or brother, maybe a brother's better. And still didn't never give me any money. The moment I added the Bitcoin, he's like, there's 15 million bucks. Like it was like Scott, literally it was not even an explanation. I said, well, Bob, how much Bitcoin do you own? I don't own any. How much real estate you have? None. That's weird. That's surprising. Because you'd think it would be like some guy who was a hardcore bitcoiner and was like, yeah, now that you're adding Bitcoin, I'm, now that you're adding Bitcoin, I'm, I want a piece, but maybe it was that they finally found someone they trusted who was throwing it into an investment that they could wrap their head around.

Yeah, he's just like, look, man, I got good real estate. If the Bitcoin goes up, I got good real estate and I got a score. If the Bitcoin goes down, you still got good real estate. So it's an easy way to onboard people. I think the Bitcoin community needs to understand you. You know, rather than explaining Bitcoin to people, just give them a vehicle they can get into. the best marketing for bitcoin is the price going up i've said it forever as much as we hate to admit it you said it right you uh you got some you kind of forgot about it you looked back and realized

that you'd made tens of millions of dollars if not more on that and all of a sudden became very very interested in bitcoin i mean it makes a ton of sense unfortunately there's a lot of people who buy it at the top of the hype cycle and then go down 60 70 percent inevitably it comes back but we know human behavior and mentality, they sell it off at the bottom, right? How do you prevent that? Yeah. Yeah, people are people, right?

There's a lot of degenerates, you know, in the world. And, like, if people could just, you know, the real estate's, you see, the thing about real estate is you can't. You can't sell it easily. and I personally like that right and I also like it about Bitcoin because if I can't find my keys I can't sell my real estate today

so it takes the emotion out of the process which I highly recommend you know hide it away from yourself exactly and if I'm I'm trying to pull a number up here for you if

you know If the real estate is my long-term play to protect me, then I'm not in a rush to sell my Bitcoin, because if it goes down in half, I still have my asset. So I don't have to worry about selling anything. And that's what I think you were saying, the people that do the least here end up with the most. Yeah. You know, I think Mark Yusko used to joke that the best performing non-Bitcoin, but generally

the best performing accounts were dead people, right, at Vanguard or whatever it was, dead accounts at Vanguard or something like that. really shows you that doing nothing, generally, and letting your money work is the best strategy. Now, take that out of Fiat and put it into Bitcoin, and you've multiplied that strategy by many times, right? Yeah, exactly. I want to see if I can share this with you. I don't know if I can. Presentation or screen.

Let me see. You should be able to. Yeah. There it is. This is what I've paid myself since 2013 in real estate. I paid myself, you know, the IRS knows this. but it's $143 million. That would be worth $22 billion today had I just converted it to Bitcoin.

This is the chart that changed me. It's absolutely absurd. I mean, you can see why Michael Saylor says never sell your Bitcoin. Yeah. Let's say that you're... Hey, I got to tell you, dude, I would rather be worth $22 billion. Me too. Me too.

You know, casually. And listen, we've all, I've found many, like many, creative ways to lose my bitcoin you know voyager creditor and all the uh creative dumb things i could have ever done with it and didn't realize the risk that i was taking and at the end of the day i think what you said is just get it basically out of your hands buy some and get it uh to a place where it's really difficult to access and sell it and you'll probably be okay i mean that said listen you as you said like you you you talk to millions of followers all the time both directly and via social media and all these things, they look to you for, you know, financial guidance and ways to make money.

How do you now approach when someone comes to you and is like, hey, should I just be in Bitcoin? Should I be in real estate? I'm 25. I just got my first, you know, like extra money on top of my paycheck. What should I be doing with it? Yeah, I mean, I would tell that person to like, hey, reinvest in yourself, get better at something, you know. I mean, I don't know how much money we're talking about, 5,000, 10,000, 50,000, 100. but I would tell people number one most important thing you can invest in as yourself because if you don't invest in you you'll you'll start looking for six things to invest in like you're never you know you're not finding six okay you're not fine when you're 25 years old

you're not finding six things to invest in you're going to find one and the one thing should be you first and um you know people take this advice or leave it or throw it away or whatever i'm just telling you like if if you're not confident in your ability to know boom that's the right road to take you know you're going to want to slow down and then you're going to want to go maybe left maybe right maybe back up you're confused dude like you most people have too many oars in the water you know i i am where i am today because i just went i learned one thing and repeated that one thing Like over and over, I grinded it out for like grind.

Yeah, there's so many distractions now. I mean, listen, I'm almost, yeah, I agree. I'm not, I'm not making excuse me. Listen, I'm almost 50. And I was just going to say, I think it was a little easier when I was in my 20s to choose a path or commit to something. And it is now when they see thousands of people, people telling them you can make a million by next year. Right. The thing is, it seems like there's a much more of a get rich quickman.

mentality now than maybe there was in the past maybe that's my like i'm a boomer screaming for the kids to get off my lawn i don't know but it feels like we weren't being fed that on a daily basis when i was in my 20s everybody just said go get a fucking job yeah there was there wasn't fast ways there i agree with that there wasn't as many fast ways it was mow the lawn you know uh hustle a weekend job you know it was much slower do you think that you'll go real estate yeah go ahead You know, I mean, we've got all this technology available to us. Now, there are more choices, and there's more voices. You know, I'm telling people to, like, like, I would just go back, back to your question.

Invest in yourself, number two, find a business. You're the business. Everybody's a business. You're a business, whether you call yourself a business or not, you're the business of being Grant Cardone or Scott Melker or Little Robbie. You're in the business of being Robbie. Like, then you've got to add value to the marketplace. And people need to start seeing you as a dependable, you know, consistent, you know, positive, solution-oriented person. And people don't see you like that.

Money's never coming to you. Opportunity's not coming to you. People, if people aren't stopping you saying, hey, man, what are you on? What do you drink? Why do you act different? Why are you different than your generation? You're of no value to anyone. You're like everybody else.

So that's the first two things, you and your business. And then the third thing is you've got to find a vehicle. to invest in, not 10 vehicles. Young people should not be diversifying. They should be going all in on one thing. And unfortunately, I would not say that one thing for a kid. The Bitcoin community is going to hate me for this, but I don't believe the first thing should be Bitcoin for those kids. I think it should be something that provides cash flow and they convert the cash flow to Bitcoin. Because if the Bitcoin blows up, okay, they need something to rely on to take care of their

bills. Okay. I can't eat Bitcoin. Well, yeah. I mean, you know, there's the whole, never sell your Bitcoin. It's really hard to live if you're never selling your Bitcoin. It's the only thing you do. Exactly.

I know there's creative ways now to earn yield and all these products. And but that always introduces risk. There's creative ways to lose it. as you talked about earlier, too. Yeah, so what do you make, listen, you said you have friends, you know, or people that you've talked to who are interested in liquidating all their real estate, effectively just becoming a Bitcoin treasury company. What do you make of the Bitcoin treasury company trend?

Basically, everybody trying to be a sailor. It's a goal rush, man. That didn't end well. It's a goal rush, you know. And so at the end of the day, there needs to be something real there. And if there's not something real there, everybody will wait. up one day and say wait a minute you know why am i paying a multiple for the bitcoin and there's no company behind it so you know it'll be there'll be a washout it's greed it's greed and and you know

people are going to figure out short cuts but ain't no shortcut to heaven bro yeah it to me like that goes back to the point we made before is that it's just so much easier than anybody accepts like I try to beat it if you can just buy it and just ride it. And it seems to have always been that way. I have shared the same concern. I think Bitcoin Treasury Company number 79 that says, my convertible debt offering is better. And we can offer you this much better yield at the premium.

Those premiums are going to be arbed away right back to the price of Bitcoin. And so anyone who's in between there is going to direct. And it'll probably drag Bitcoin down one over some long, you know, who knows, maybe a summer or a winter, summer and a winter, or, you know, it could be a big dragout. I've been very unpopular for saying that, but my belief, listen, I don't think nothing hurts Bitcoin or kills Bitcoin, but if we were going to get a 25% drawdown and all these guys liquidate because they bought the top and are just basically crappy hedge funds, they're going to have to liquidate at 25, which is going to send it to 35, which is going to cause some more selling

which sends it to 45% down, right? Doesn't kill it. Comes right back, but, and the shareholders of all those companies get completely washed yeah and hey and that's the way the world works you know and tide goes out leaves a bunch of people you know looking kind of stupid uh and the guys that can hold on i'll be able to hold on because i'm not leopard yep i mean any final thoughts before i let you the moment the moment you start talking about puts and calls and options i'm like i'm checked out yeah man i'm telling you you don't need to do all that it's complicated for me i just don't I don't understand it. Like, that's the problem I've had with, you know, when I sit down and talk to Michael Saylor, I'm like, Michael, you need to understand.

I'm the least intelligent person at the table, okay? Like, that's your problem. I'm like, it is, bro. It's my problem, right? But I don't understand some of these financial. And so I'm like, I'm just trying to do something. When I met with him in January, he's like, look, you need to learn this stuff. You know, you need to spend 100 hours and you need to deep dive on AI and you, you got to, like, I'm like, Michael, like, I'm just a real estate guy, bro.

I'm just a real estate guy trying to add a little Bitcoin, bro, homie. It's funny when people tell somebody with billions of dollars that they need to do something different. I don't know. Feels like the rest of us need to do something different to catch up to you guys. But he's right. Like, he's like, you know, he's like all that stuff you got needs plumbing and roofs and I'm like, yeah, that's fine. But, I mean, people still need a place to live, man. It's not going to go away that people need a place to live.

People are going to still want to travel. So anybody can figure out how to take their real business and the cash flows and continue to add value. Me buying Bitcoin does not add value to the world, despite all the rooms on spaces. I do not see how me. me buying bitcoin makes governments somehow more honest or water cleaner or housing better but it's cool it's certainly making the number go up for you so uh what what's the before i let you go what's the next plan so obviously you talked about potentially taking these public do you have any new sort of offerings in mind that you might experiment with or any any fresh ideas that you've got

Yeah, I mean, we're, you know, right now we're just trying to scale this, this portfolio. We have 12 deals that we should be finished with by end of September, maybe, maybe October, mid-October. I'll have a dozen deals, real estate acquisitions with Bitcoin on the platform. We're finishing the raise on our last large deal. We probably won't raise after these 12 are done. the next raise will probably be for the public company and

you know so we've raised money at that point to go expand the portfolio and possibly make some acquisitions because the real estate's on sale right now I mean you know the real estate this is the best real estate market I've ever been in and nobody's talking about

it's not even better than 2010 2009 I mean you're in Miami because it was man And the best thing I ever did that started me, honestly, in my adult life was, and it was residential, I just bought a condo in Miami in 2010 and sold it in 2015. Yeah, but imagine buying 300 at one time. Yeah, exactly. But is it that bad? Is it as bad as it was back then when, because back then, I just remember, you know,

these condo buildings with the cranes outside, nothing moving for two years, you know, 8 to 80s. In 2010, in 2010, you'd still one condo. In 2025, you can still 300 units. It's crazy. And there's not cranes outside, and you have cash flow day one, and day two, you have a depreciation that is massive, that you can't get any other place. And three, you've got rent growth for the next 10 years. Rents are going to double in this country.

Is that because nobody can afford to buy? Yeah, there's no, there's nothing to buy. Yeah. Forget, forget they can't afford it. The stuff they can afford is shit. Okay, it's an eight-foot ceiling. with old doors, old utilities, there's no intelligence in the house, old electrical,

like, you know, the only thing anybody wants are new homes. In fact, there's a third of the population. They don't even want a home. They want to live in these vertical buildings where they have amenities, swimming pools. Like, living in an apartment today is not like it was in the 80s.

You live in a resort. Dude, it's a fucking resort. This deal that I just did, I mean, this is as good real estate as you can buy, period. People can rent there for $4,500 a month. It would cost you, the note would be $11,000 a month to own it, and you live there for $4,500. Probably got $250,000 worth of freaking date palms around you, a $3 million swimming pool, a million dollar gym, and $50 million views. so that kind of real estate's not going away ever

yeah i agree with that and i think that that's on the rise i just had no idea it was that bad you've you've peaked my interest now i'm like send me those 12 deals man dude if you if you think 30 or 40 percent below replacement cost is a good deal so on a hundred million if you think you're going to get back to replacement cost in the future you're making 30 or 40 million on every 100. Okay? Every 25 bucks, think about it like this. Every $25 in, if you can get some scale,

every $25 is $5,000 in new value. So if I have 14,000 units, every time that's what I have now, let me do the math here, times 25 times 12 divided by. every 25 bucks is worth 84 million dollars to our investors so the rents are going to if the rents double that's 84 million goes up 10 times 840 million dollars a new value while bitcoin was slowly starting to increase the value of the of the portfolio because i added the realest of the

the bitcoin to the to the portfolio i have the the the the bitcoin is exploding it let's say 20% cagger okay but i also have my real estate swinging and typically what happens with rents rents go flat flat flat maybe down and then they spike they'll spike for two years flatten out again maybe even dip a little bit but you can't build this stuff anymore you know it's hard hard to build, hard to find labor, hard to find a desirable location, glass and steel costs more money. If they hit a printing press again, and they will, they'll always find a reason to print again.

The cost of labor, labor, you can't even find it, bro. If you can't buy it, you can't find it. What a crazy market. Seems that you have your finger on the pulse of it, and people should just skip thinking about all of this and invest with you. Cardonecapital.com, man. Let's go, baby. Yeah, this is paid for a bite.

No, I'm just kidding. But, I mean, it's true, right? You found the formula that mixes the two hard assets that people are going to want when they turn the printer back on. Yeah. Beautiful. And you can, we offer our tenants. We offer our tenants. I'm like, hey, look, you're living in a Bitcoin property.

You can invest in the property or you can pay for the property or you can do both. So our average tenant in that property right now pays $4,500. bucks they make 500 grand a year and they love the idea that they're living in a bitcoin residence and that they can invest in it look their investments in it could pay for their rent yeah of course yeah what about like uh you know some bitcoin powered mortgages you see any other interesting products coming i don't know how much time you have i just keep talking because that's my name look i talked to i talked to the guys at fanny and freddie mack and i said guys you should convert the what's it called PMI that PMI bullshit that piece of garbage piece product

that ensures the the basically it's insurance on the mortgage if you put less than 20% down I think the average down payment right now is 18% and you still have to buy the PMI because you're two points away that PMI should be Bitcoin okay so let's say on a 440,000, thousand dollar loan somebody will figure this shit out too it's not going to be me because i got my hands full but you're friends with palti right yeah so if a guy bought 6600 worth of of if you just added 6600 every year to your mortgage divide about 12 what's it 400 bucks a month let me no it's not even that no more yeah yes 500 dollars a month they're paying for it anyway Just convert the 500 for the PMI to buying Bitcoin.

Which one's going to be worth more money in four years? Right. Or 40 since we're talking about the government. Yeah, exactly. So now what happens? Because you've got a 30-year market. You're absolutely right. Now you don't have four years.

It's 30 years. 30 years from now, the PMI at 500 bucks a month would be better insurance. You're talking about a whole new business being. You're talking about being as big as met life in no time. And like if I was a kid right now, I'd be trying to figure that shit out. Don't, don't try to figure out this treasury shit. Try to figure out how to, how to get the funding for this new product. Well, they've said that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are going to start at least counting Bitcoin and crypto as a part of your portfolio and count them as assets when you're applying for a mortgage.

It's a small thing, but it's meaningful stuff in the right direction. direction. Yeah, it's not a vehicle, though. It's not a driver, right? It's, it's everybody gets excited about it. I'm like, what does that do for you? There's like a hundred guys out there now who can maybe get a mortgage. You couldn't be. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, hey, they don't even count your rent to your, to your, to your ability to pay a mortgage yet. So I think that's down the road a little bit. That's how dated those guys are. But somebody outside of Fannie and Freddie could figure it out. And that's who should do it, by the way. You got somebody should figure this PMI thing out because it's massive.

This is a $100 billion idea right here. Run with it, man. You got people. Call one of your people. Sign a guy. You've got a guy. You've got guys for everything, man. Come on.

Yeah. Or how about a real estate mortgage product, right? Like there's a mortgage against the real estate and the Bitcoin. And she really. state's never liquid. Yeah, and Bitcoin gives you that liquidity and the growth collectively. Yeah, and the reason the banks will allow your home to be collateral on the law against the debt is because they know how to grab it out of the courts.

That's the only reason that's, they got the whole process laid out to where the title, the deed, et cetera, they can go grab it, they could put it in foreclosure. They assume you don't want to lose your. your home. By the way, that's not true. Many people are willing to lose their home. They're like, if I can take it, please. What people won't want to lose, what people won't want to lose is their keys. You know, and so you threaten a guy with, hey, I'm going to take your, I'm going to let's say you bought a home for a mortgage was $416,000 and you added $14,000 of Bitcoin. So now the loans for 430 it doesn't change the payments by hardly anything to 20 bucks a month or something

right yeah 16,000 yeah it's nothing right yes it's nothing 22 bucks yeah and you preload the mortgage with 16,000 dollars of bitcoin which would be whatever I don't know what's that a day an eighth a tenth yeah there's some guys I need you to meet they're called the name people's reserves I don't know if you know them they're actually located in florida this guy cj and they're doing bit bonds and mortgage and uh bitcoin back loan product that you'd love it you got yeah i'm like i'm gonna get with you offline i mean i got an audience of drug i got a i got a big audience of people that want to like they're not bitcoiners my audience is fiat people right of course i have a large 16 million follower fiats that buy insurance they buy houses they they want to learn real estate they own

businesses but they're not coming to bitcoin rents they're not going to listen to all this bullshit the bitcoin's going to solve every problem in the universe and it's the next coming blah blah blah but somebody needs to talk to them about how they could like i know a couple of those guys that are doing the home equity you know give me give me your give me your give me your house I'll give you some Bitcoin or yeah it's kind of a similar yeah structurally similar I don't know which guys yeah yeah exactly but but you know you still need distributions you need somebody to tell the story because if you can't tell the story nobody's signing up yeah and it's funny because the key as you keep saying it's not the Bitcoin people

they already get it it's everybody else so you just everybody else bro it's everybody else it's not the Bitcoin people most people don't even know anything's going on in Bitcoin they just they just see it as a ticker on cnbc or whatever yeah this is why sailor says by the time the banks allow you to invest in it it'll be a million dollars and by the time they recommend you to invest in it'll be 10 million because most of the world doesn't know about it but you get in these bitcoin rooms and these people man they know a lot about bitcoin yeah my next call my next call right now is with Rick Edelman, the, you know, the RIA, talk to him about products to push Bitcoin to,

I mean, he's, I don't know if you've seen, he's advocating 40% of portfolio in crypto now for aggressive, 10% conservative. And he's like the Michael Jordan of RIAs. This shit's coming. Wow. Yeah, man. This has been amazing. I know you got to go.

I got to run too. We got other meetings. I didn't expect us to bang out almost an entire hour, man. But it's been a pleasure. I'm glad we finally got to talk about this morning. I appreciate you. Scott, appreciate everything you're doing for the community. and thank you for thinking enough of me to have me on your show, man.