The Wolf Of All Streets - Hack The Bitcoin ETF | Mastercard Pushes Crypto Adoption | Scott Dykstra

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

I am joined by Scott Dykstra (https://twitter.com/chiefbuidl), Co-Founder & CTO of Space And Time.  ►►OKX Sign up for an OKX Trading Account then deposit & trade to unlock mystery box rewards of up to $60,000!  👉 https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER  ►►THE DAILY CLOSE BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS. 👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/   ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets   ►►COINROUTES TRADE SPOT & DERIVATIVES ACROSS CEFI AND DEFI USING YOUR OWN ACCOUNTS WITH THIS ADVANCED ALGORITHMIC PLATFORM. SAVE TONS OF MONEY ON TRADING FEES LIKE THE PROS! 👉 http://bit.ly/3ZXeYKd  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/   Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #Trading The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Cathie Wood's ARK Invest has taken the pole position in the ETF race, getting ahead of BlackRock, although technically they were already ahead, but refiling with a surveillance sharing agreement to make it basically the same application. Needing a lot to believe that they may be the first to get an approval if we do see that. Also, MasterCard making another huge move into crypto. Very clear that the institutions are here. My guest today, Scott Dykstra, said that last time he was on the show. He said, all the institutions are coming, but we were in the depths of the bear market and depression. And everyone was like, nah, man, not right now. Well, he was right. He's going to review all the news with me. We're going to talk about it. Let's go. what is up everybody i am scott milker also known as the wolf wall street before we get started please subscribe to the channel and reverse fist bump the like button with your tongue i don't even know how that will work that's not even science but do something to the like button

and honestly like i don't judge people so whatever you choose to do with it or not do with it that that's on you guys you know what i mean hope you guys are having a wonderful day it is thursday man a lot has happened this week, but finally we have a somewhat slowed down news day. We can chill a little bit, have a nice conversation with our guests. Lately, it's just been like ETF, ETF, ETF, drama, Coinbase, SEC, regulator, fire Gary Gensler.

Probably gonna do all that again. I'm gonna be honest with you guys it's probably gonna happen again right now but yeah so listen we got a lot of news to review today and i've got one of your favorite guests on the round table not that long ago scott dystrop i'm just gonna bring him on right now the intention was i was gonna do the news and then um we were gonna just have like a basically a conversation about web 3 and ai and all the wild stuff that's happening but scott's got a big personality so i figured i'd just bring him on to do the news anyways hey great to be here scott thanks for having me see every every guest i have now is

in the matrix with that blurry background yesterday it was just like me and a bunch of blurry background people i'm thinking i gotta become one of you guys i'm deep in it i mean i'm excited to see the news what do you got for us this morning i think you're in the matrix right now to be honest um pretty much yeah you're good so the first the first one we got master master card to continue crypto foray with foray with beta launch of blockchain app store this is pretty crazy because a they're launching an app store b it's going to be in the united kingdom first of all places. But this is the first round of apps will be powered by tokenized bank deposits. Tokenized bank deposits are digital representations of traditional bank deposits that can be used

on the blockchain. I mean, there's been so much conversation about tokenizing real world assets. I was kind of shocked when they came in first with the tokenizing bank assets. Seemed like that would trigger a whole lot of legacy players to be really upset. I mean, what do you think? First of all, MasterCard's been here a long time. It's not a surprise that they're doing things like this. But Scott, I mean, what's your take on them coming in and doing this specifically? It's pretty wild to me. are they tokenizing retail consumers it says yeah the idea is that they're tokenizing bank deposits so that basically and it said that's it tokenized bank deposits are digital representations of traditional bank deposits that can be used on the blockchain

yeah that wow they're taking my ach wire transfer they're giving me back what i'm guessing is usdc unless mastercard has their own stablecoin yeah so this hype prime it is a private blockchain of some sort so that that seems to be the plan is that maybe they're going to do it with their own uh internal like blockchain and technology which i found kind of surprising too yeah we heard this from another major American financial institution that they're building an L2. And I was shocked. I was like, you guys don't even have a website and you're going to go build an L2? Who is it? What's that?

Are we talking about Coinbase and Base or is it something else? I'm talking about a major American bank. JP Morgan, isn't it? No, they have a website. Yeah. For MasterCard. So I go do an ACH wire transfer to my MasterCard account.

I give back some MUSD on some crazy L2 they built. And then I go bridge that over to E. And then I bridge that to Arbitrum. And then I go take a loan out against my own crypto asset. I go buy Bitcoin, and then I loan out an over-clad asset against my Bitcoin, and now I'm just financial engineering MasterCard. I like that. I mean, it's crazy how much we're seeing this tokenization narrative starting to come from the institutions. Everyone's talking

about the BlackRock ETF, but in their investor letter in march larry fink went on a whole thing about tokenizing assets and that being the future crypto use case and kind of was like brushed under the rug and nobody talks about it but if black rock is talking about tokenizing real world assets that's a thing that's definitely coming yeah the problem is they're all under the KYC regulations. So they're, you know, my little tongue-in-cheek explanation of like bridging over to ETH. I don't think it's going to happen.

I think these are going to be isolated private chains that are KYC. And from the front end, you don't even know there's a blockchain on the back end. You're just trading with MasterCard. You just have a MasterCard app. I can't imagine that they'll have a bridge to eat you know this would be very isolated yeah i think so too i think this will be private blockchain which is interesting

because like that narrative of enterprise blockchain seemed to have died kind of in the last cycle but yeah it's not like mastercard is more they just have me incubating all of this the whole time Gensler is just burning down Web3 so do you I mean okay so that's like the tin hat theory right is that Gensler basically is clearing a path for these Wall Street incumbents to come in I've said it

other people have said that I mean is that what you view is happening here like they're just gonna get the version of this that they want and kill everything else how could you not yeah pretty clear yeah i agree so listen moving on from from mastercard to the next one i i beat this story to death yesterday but tusd brags about volume milestone after stablecoin dpeg so the dpeg was really minor but basically and i don't have the tweet here i showed it yesterday they came from the true usd account while they're getting all this fud and attacks clearly like the intern showed up at work today and was like oh my gosh we hit a milestone like

68 million in volume in a day or billion or whatever it was and i'm gonna tweet about it and everyone went ape shit on them because uh you know they're cussing with prime trust there's all this fud going on their auditor is the same one as ftx who rebranded they only have a single audit coming from this story of tusd and Prime Trust is absolutely insane. But like, does this shake your confidence at all in this industry? So like FTX, Celsius, BlockFi, Voyager. Prime Trust is a trusted custodian. And TrueUSD is like the biggest stable coin being used on Binance since they got rid of VUSD. Doesn't this kind of just make us look like clowns again?

I saw they got deep pegged down to like 89 cents on the dollar very brief all around it generally it was only like 99 i think it's re-pegged right now i got it so temporarily just hit hit like 89 almost re-peg everyone went nuts jumped in it's for like fine seconds yeah there was at no point was it like dramatically de-pegged but and this is all this is all just over uh woes around like prime trust losing a bunch of people's assets right but it's already right it starts with five prime trust but then when people start digging into tusd it's pretty wild so wild. So we got to the bottom of this yesterday. The last three major Bitcoin pumps that were like 20% or more in seven days were all since BUSD went away. And every time that true USD is minted, including like 1 billion of their 3 billion, so a 50% increase from 2 billion to 3 billion, the hour that Bitcoin was at $24,000 like 10 days ago before it

went to $31,000. Boss, we did it. We've been looking for us to get a billion liquidity all year. We did it. Finally, our liquidity. Exactly. And so there's some, you know, and they can't show their attestations. We don't know where their assets are being held.

It's just another one of these sort of like, it reminds me of, and USDT came out smelling like roses, but it reminds me of the Tether stuff three or four years ago. The project that I co-founded, Space and Time, is building this massive database for Web3, but I'm thinking like, screw that. I just should build a bot that tracks de-pegging of random alt stable coins and just cash in month after month. Yeah. I'm going to go straight to the ETF because I know you want to talk about that. So as I said in the beginning, so everyone's talking about the BlackRock ETF. Cathie Wood came out a couple of days ago. I was like, there's nothing special in there that we

don't have. She refiled with the surveillance sharing agreement, which basically is a way to avoid market manipulation. You share with an exchange, they look into the data and tracking so that you can basically say, well, you know, Gary Gensler loves to say that this is a manipulated market. They can't track it. This basically kills that by saying, hey, we're going to roll with the NASDAQ or with a different exchange. So now Kathy Woods in first place. So I know you have a lot of thoughts on the ETF. How about it? Because you did say last time the institutions were coming and everyone was kind of like, nah, not really.

I'm the most bullish I've been in so long. I think my bull was starting to come out last time we chatted. And that's just because we'd been hearing things off, you know, side conversations here and there with institutions that were actually starting to make real moves, which shocked us. And now it's starting to come together, right? I think net net, this is fantastic for Bitcoin, for Web3 in general. Everyone's going to raise their hands and say, oh, this is so awful. The U.S. kicked out the original Web3 incumbents and made room for those that have the capital

to lobby to Congress, right? I see it net-net as a great thing for Bitcoin. We're talking about billions of dollars purchased by each of these institutions to back these ETFs. I mean, you got to think Saylor is just partying right now. You have to think so. But, you know, it seems like there's a lot of very angry Bitcoiners who see this as the Wall Street takeover. And listen, I guess I can sympathize with that sentiment. But like but this is never going to go mainstream without it going mainstream. And that requires institutions.

I think ethically, it's frustrating. And I think as a degen from the heart of Web3, it's frustrating. But come on, if you ever want to get real, real, real liquidity, if you want that trillion dollars of market cap to go to 10 trillion or 100 trillion someday, then your grandma has to be buying Bitcoin on her retirement fund through Fidelity. Your grandma has to be able to invest her 401k in Bitcoin because her grandson told her to. You have to have something that feels like a log into JV Morgan Chase, put your Roth IRA into Bitcoin, on a Bitcoin ETF,

and you need options liquidity, you need tools that everyday Americans can use. And we were getting so close before the Black Rocks jumped in. And now, here we are. So you think they get approved? It has to. I don't

think that BlackRock applies unless they already know. Isn't that how this works? I mean, these guys are the government. It's not like they know the government. They are the government. It's going to get approved. Yeah, I think so too.

So listen, news is super boring, guys. I'm going to be honest. I don't want to even talk about any of it. I'm over it. I just want to talk. So you just talked about the idea that grandma has to be able to buy this ETF, right? Be able to buy Bitcoin ETF in the retirement fund. I 100% agree. She's not going to buy it, but her fund, she's going to be wrapped in this fund that purchases it. That's a growth asset. And that just brings in a lot of liquidity. Yeah, I agree. So I think it's the biggest thing that's ever happened for Bitcoin, I would be honest. So it makes me super bullish as well, just like you. But you're building in Web3, right?

And we have the same problem. It's like nobody knows how to use this shit. Yeah. Right? And UX, UI. So let's talk about that side. I know that's what you're really passionate about. How do we fix that? And how do we get mainstream adoption? Like, yeah, grandma's not going to come in and play shrapnel. I know that. Right. You know, but come on. What are you building? How do we build this where anyone can go in, click of a button, play a game, not know that they are like dealing with crypto wallets and all that. I mean, okay, if you want to start on,

click a button and play a game, that's where you want to start. I mean, blockchain is going to be completely abstracted away. I mean, you go play Fortnite, you go buy a skin with a microtransaction, that could have been theoretical. If that would have been on a chain on the back end, you wouldn't have known anyways.

All they're doing is just putting a row of data in a database somewhere saying Scott Melker wants to play as Luke Skywalker or some shit. How'd you know? But more importantly is this. When do we get the Web3 Venmo that's so easy to use? And I think the combination of Gensler plus BlackRock plus, you know, name your institution that redefine what Web3 looks like in America

overnight during the bear while everyone was sleeping, except Scott Dykstra. Like what they want is just normal KY seed, log into your trading account, log into your brokerage log into your um your checking account and trade crypto the same way you trade zelle you'd send a zelle between melker and dykstra right they've they've basically defined the ux for america outside of america outside of the united like, all bets are off. It's back to, hey, can we, you know,

why does a MetaMask login still suck? But I'm saying in America, I think Web3 wallets are effectively, you know, KYC'd. So you think that, yeah, but like, okay, so we're going to basically just use it like a bank and we're not gonna be able to do anything fun is that does that like disappoint you does that kind of feel of course yeah of course it disappoints me because it also means we're not gonna have access to a ton of these assets and we're not gonna be able to trade the things we want but i guess when it

comes to gaming or something it's not so massively disappointing because it gets you through the process but like you don't go play fortnite and have to give your id to do that so isn't that a massive barrier to entry if we have to kyc that's worse video probably a greater barrier to entry but i think the thought is these are already folks that already have these apps like they already have the chase app they already have the They already have the brokerage set up with MasterCard. I don't know. All right, so talk about the games you're building then. How does this work?

Walk me through. I saw, like I said, we've done a lot of them before, but it consents as I saw Shrapnel. The game was crazy. I was playing with it. But if you're like a brand new person, doesn't know anything about crypto, how do you play this game and take advantage of the Web3 side of it? Yeah. A lot of these games are just doing classic username, password, letting you log in the same

way you'd log into Steam. And then once you're logged in, you can bridge cash with MoonPay or any of these crypto on-ramp services. And the idea is you go play the game, you go earn weapons or earn prizes or earn accolades, earn something that you own in-game or buy something that's in-game. And they're basically custodying that for you. They're holding that asset for you in their own wallet on the backend with your Web2 login. And when you're ready, when you grow up, you get your own little MetaMask wallet that lets you transfer that asset over to your real Web3 wallet. That's the idea. Just start Web2, on-ramp to Web3 when you're ready, basically. Yeah. I mean, that makes perfect sense. So you can basically play these games without ever even

touching Web3, knowing about Web3, caring about about web 3 but if you actually want to get into the digital economy side then you have to kyc and transfer that is like at some point some a player earns a lot like or they have a lot of in-game token or they have a lot of skins they purchase and at some point they're gonna wake up and be like you know what i should probably custody these i should take self custody of these assets that i've bought in game what should the player will wake up and do that? That's TVD. And I'm thinking, right, you've got like, this is going to be melding the two concepts of a BlackRock ETF and games that are trying to bring Web2 logits to Web3. But I'm thinking you've got a Bitcoin halving coming next year. You've got approval of a BlackRock ETF coming later this year.

You've got institutions like MasterCard jumping in. And there'll be some blending, some meat in the middle where you have like fiat to crypto on-ramp via a stripe a master card a back-end payment system visa probably i'm sure i'm sure we're going to hear an announcement from visa in two months and so what these web3 games will have to do in the u.s i'm guessing next year is probably on-ramp via like master cards web3 bitcoin sdk something you know what i'm talking about like yeah that's gonna be via MasterCard's Web3 Bitcoin SDK, something I'm talking about. That's going to be the new MoonPay.

Yeah, I mean, that makes perfect sense. I'm just curious where that line will be, I guess, when people decide, I'm playing this game for a living because I can make money, right? I think we have a lot of people who are used to the Fortnite side, the skins, even spending money in-game, but

is there a real vision here where people go to play these games as their job? I think that's always been the vision. I think that's very challenging to accomplish. It's going to depend completely on how good the game is. If that game rocks, then you can build an economy like that.

And a lot of Web2 games have already proved that. So what happens is Bitcoin pumps mid-2024 at the very latest. That sends the entire market into a positive disarray and then you got all these builders that will jump back into web3 and start building more on-chain games powered by eth and bitcoin and so you'll have this bifurcation between like american institutions allowing your grandma to invest in Bitcoin while all the people that jumped on the AI hype train for a year come back to crypto as Bitcoin pubs and suddenly start building games again. Watch.

All right, let's talk about AI then. I know it's one of your favorite topics. You just call it the AI hype train and think they're coming back to crypto. I think that's not a very popular opinion. I'm on the AI hype train and think they're coming back to crypto. I think that's not a very popular opinion. I'm on the AI hype train. You do. I probably can't be the one saying this, but if OpenAI keeps

shipping and we get like a GPT-5 and GPT-5 is every bit as great as GPT-4 was compared to 3, the hype train could continue. And the S&P 500 is getting a huge pump on every publicly traded company from Snowflake to Salesforce

trying to tell an AI story to convince the market they have a play. Try to convince the street they have a play, try to convince the street they have a play in AI, that pumps the S&P 500, which creates a little more wealth for people to also buy Bitcoin. So maybe net-net, if AI staves off a recession in the US a little bit, that creates a little more wealth to put into Bitcoin. So thanks, AI. So why not base so can we get

it uh bitcoin is the in-game currency for any of these games or for any of this web 3. isn't that like the the wet dream for the bitcoin maxis and uh well i guess the web 3 is not necessarily but why aren't we seeing bitcoin bridged and being used as the economic measure of value within the web 3 ecosystem i'm starting no then yeah i'm starting to convert to the religion starting to join the church of bitcoin a little bit you know i'm a 10 everyone is very rich that probably means it's the top or something and then we're just going to start seeing meme coins pop off but yeah go ahead if i call are we calling the top deep in a bear? Right now, AI is a big distraction for a lot of Web3 builders. Even us, we're doing some cool stuff with AI on the side.

Right now, it's a distraction that's taking a lot of builders away from time spent doing what they probably should be doing, which is building DeFi protocols, building new financial global rails. And so when this hype train ends via sort of that trough of disillusionment where, you know, $400 billion of VC capital that went into crappy AI companies dissolves a little bit via just like startups building little wrappers around open AI that kind of suck. Combined with a Bitcoin halvening, combined with a BlackRock ETF and 18 other ETFs that come in to follow BlackRock, combined with your grandma making a 401k investment into Bitcoin via

some fund that she invested in who needs Bitcoin as a growth vertical. When you combine all of that, you see a pump in Bitcoin next year, and you see things sort of return to Web3. Right now, AI holds the whole narrative, and it's really important, and it's world changing but it's it's also going to hit a trough of disillusionment oh yes it does corn pumps yeah i i actually tend to agree with that perfectly i think like i'm not trying to time the top of nvidia but there's going to be a top and we're going to see a you know we're going to see one of those people start naming things long island blockchain ice tea it's going to be like Long Island AI iced tea or whatever, right?

And then we're going to see 99% of this stuff go to zero. And we'll see five or 10 companies, just like with crypto or the internet bubble, that just massively dominate the whole thing. Are we looking at puts right now against NVIDIA? I'm not trying to short NVIDIA right now. I don't know where the top is. I just know that it's overvalued. The thing is, with the NVIDIA

or AI in general, NVIDIA is priced right now. The assumption is that they're going to be the only player in AI that ever makes a chip that anyone likes. We just know that everybody's going to catch up and they're going to lose market share. I don't see why, after all that movement, that's where you would necessarily be focused.

One more big leg up. Are we buying puts? Yeah, if I see another big leg up, I'm probably shorting it. To be honest. Do you trade a lot? I don't even know. I buy a lot of puts. So you like shorting shit.

Yeah, one of those. Yeah. Well, what you what you gotta do is you gotta put your you just put your long-term wealth in e or bitcoin and you just leave it and don't touch it you have to touch it take a loan out against it on abe or something and put that money into betty non-selsius non-selsius though yeah on mastercard cool short master short master Yeah, on MasterCard. Short MasterCoin. Yeah. Well, I mean, here's the real play.

If any of these MasterCard players, what they need to do is allow fully collateralized loans against your Bitcoin. every 26 year old you know bitcoin lover in america it's like wait i own forty thousand dollars of bitcoin and i can get forty thousand dollars of usdc back or usdt or us or the us dollar back i'm gonna blow it on like crack and huckers or something but yeah or on on uh puts that expire they'll blow it all on Wall Street bets that expire, for sure. Yeah. I do think that the lending side is becoming much more interesting now that CeFi has kind of died.

I know Maple Finance had some... I think they had an announcement yesterday. Were you on here with Sid? Like a month ago. That panel was you, Sid, and Josh Frank, right? That was fun. Yeah. But like, yeah, you know,

Maple is starting to really make a lot of noise, I think, in the lending side of it. So I do think that we're going to see in DeFi that narrative massively pushed again next year, the coming years. And do you think it's going to come to the US, KYC with institutions? Like, will I be able to actually lend

US dollars against my assets, my ETH or my Bitcoin on, call it, Fidelity? I don't know. I think so. I mean, if you could, that's kind of world changing. You're right. Every 26-year-old will blow it on Wall Street bets that expire, and now they have a $40,000 loan to Fidelity that they're going to struggle to pay off. But that defines the nature of Bitcoin as an asset, right? And isn't that the whole debate? Is Bitcoin like gold or is it more of like a currency

that you want to buy Starbucks with? I've always naively saw Bitcoin as like the gold, not something you just buy Starbucks with. Pristine collateral. And if you're lending against it, you're defining it as pristine collateral. You're defining it as collateral you put in the wall or in your savings account. Yeah. I mean, the first time I had Saylor on, he was like, Bitcoin, and this was like a month after he got orange-pilled or whatever. He was like, Bitcoin is pristine collateral. He's

like, good luck coming to the other side of the planet to get my yacht that I took a loan out against. He's like, go get it, have fun, right? He's like, but you can liquidate someone's Bitcoin in five seconds. You don't need to go to their house and transfer it to the wallet and it's done. Nobody wants to hear that they're going to get liquidated

on their Bitcoin, but it is pristine collateral for a loan because it's so easy. For all the reasons people love Bitcoin, it's so easy to transfer for a loan because it's so easy. For all the reasons people love Bitcoin, it's so easy to transfer. It's so easy to account for. It's so easy to prove where it is. Every bank should be looking to offer loans against it. Yep. That's going to be interesting to watch this play out. So, I mean, you're going to have the S&P 500 probably continue to pump for the next six months to a year, just purely on the AI hype train, even despite US housing foreclosures. And then whatever wealth is left goes straight to Bitcoin as soon as the happening hits. I want to know what you're doing in AI that's bridging AI and crypto. Because I think there's a lot of ideas, but I haven't seen that much that's really formalized yet. So what are you guys focusing on there?

Yeah, we got lucky. So our last funding round was backed by Microsoft. They pushed us straight into GPT-4 in December. So we got a little bit of an early head start before sort of everyone else did in, call it February, March. We built a way to just ask any question about anything on-chain via AI. So you say, hey, show me all wallets that have at least $1,000 of link, or show me top 10 blocks that had the most validated rewards, or which wallets are most actively trading today on Polygon and what's their total volume. Just asking questions and then AI converts that to a database query, does this massive database search, returns your results. And the idea is,

the holy grail is understanding what's happening on chain. If you're a DeFi degen or you're a trader or you're trying to move monkey pics every evening after work. And making that easier via AI to understand what's happening on-chain. Bring on-chain activity to a simple, natural language. Easy to understand interface where you just ask any question you want. The Google search of Web3. That's what we're working on. Can I get that? That's going to make my life so much easier.

For making these shows, I think that would really give us all the data and information we need. We wouldn't just need no humans. It's in beta right now. It's cooking. We're in the kitchen. When, yeah. When token? No humans. It's in beta right now. It's cooking. We're in the kitchen. Okay, but when?

When token? Yeah, honestly, like September. Can you wait a couple months? Yeah, I'd wait a couple months. No, but I mean, that sounds absolutely insane. I hadn't even thought about that side of it. I thought maybe we're building something with gaming and the AI would be involved.

But you're literally, I mean, just talking about leveraging chat GPT to make it way better for crypto. And I'd be a real piece of math about that. We'd already built this massive database with an exact copy of everything across most major chains like ETH, Polygon, Binance, ABAX, SWE, Bitcoin. And so next step is just make that data easy to access. Don't make it feel like a database. Just make it feel like a conversation with a friend. Yo, Scott Melker, what's going on with Ethereum? What's popping on AVAX today? I mean, that would make my life so much easier. Also, I think there's so much that's complicated. It would just simplify a lot of this on-chain

research. And I mean. Most people want to find things out. They don't know where to look. Once they look, they don't know how to interpret that data. Then you go somewhere else, the data's completely different anyways because it's all... That's the big issue. The issue we see more often than not is how do you

trust the data? If you go on Nansen or you go on the tie, shout out to Josh, and you're you're looking at or you go on the tie shout out to josh and you're looking through wallet activity like are you sure what's happening i mean yeah it's very it's very hard to know because they're all pulling from different places and we know that people are trying to hide the data in the back end anyways and so and we don't know what volume is real and what's fake and if someone owns owns 10 wallets, it's always like wallet activity is up. And then you dig it, it's like four guys

own every single wallet on this protocol. I saw some, nothing against, but I saw some crazy data on Sui that there's just no activity of any sort. Like TVL is like $12 and it's like seven dudes hanging out in a room. I've heard that about a lot of these blockchains.

Josh from the Thai, he's one of the funniest with that. I'll be like, so a lot of these blockchains. Josh from the tie, he's one of the funniest with that. I'll be like, so what's happening? I remember in the depths of the bear market, he was like, dude, I looked in the Uniswap

and it's like 19 people used it like V3 or whatever that day or something. It's pretty crazy. I'm not surprised at all, which is why I've been kind of embarrassingly orange pilled the last month. Dude, we all are going to get there.

I got some like some, you know, real Bitcoiners in the chat. They're going to be so look, this guy, Cloud Casino. So I you that smile Scott has, as he says, after the having all well flows to Bitcoin makes me giddy and happy. He's in here always. But I think everybody is getting a little bit of like Bitcoin maxi in them. I seriously think like the US

did some dirty some the US did Web3 dirty. But the final outcome of all this will actually be a positive liquidity inflow to Web3. Through Bitcoin. Through Bitcoin.

I like it. Child, child. The past cycles have always worked, right? This time it's different, but everyone buys Bitcoin. They say all coins are dead and all the technology is dead and Web3 is dead. And then Bitcoin chills for a while and all the money flows back down and then it comes back around and Web3 is not dead.

Web3 is not dead, it's just changing. The Web3 that we know is morphing and evolving like Optimus Prime. I don't even know a better way to end. I'm out. It's too early for me. It's like 6.30. Do you have any more brilliant thoughts, ideas, something we didn't discuss before we go?

This was supposed to be... You wanted to chat about AI. I got sidetracked on the Orange Pill stuff. The only brilliant thought I have to leave you with is this. I am seeing a path to real AGI and I think that path is two, three years max and real AGI will be a bunch path is like two three years max and real AGI will be like a bunch of

little large language models strung together you know it'll be like a little little forest of large language models that came together and we're talking like three years worst case so that's really soon people better get real old you potentially have this

opportunity to like you know what the next wave of Web3 will probably look like, if I had to guess, is like Bitcoin pumps, ushering in more engineering into Web3, ushering in like a new wave of, you know, there was like the DeFi summer and then there's gaming. The next step will probably be like decentralized compute network, just like a shit ton of compute, fully decentralized, available for large language models to train on, which could ironically usher in that era of AGI in three years, powered by like some Bitcoin powered, basically all the Bitcoin

mining energy that just goes into GPUs. And that's where you say, Scott, why would you then buy a put against NVIDIA if you believe that? I do believe that. I've seen people say, maybe it's still undervalued. Is what everyone's going to say, you mean render? But it's not exactly that, but they've been way ahead of that kind of idea. Render's ahead of its time. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully they're not too early. But I think that conceptually, that's exactly what you're talking about, but on a much grander scale. Conceptually, on a grander scale.

So maybe NVIDIA still has some room. Maybe. Love it, man. Thank you so much for your time, guys. How about I get out of here because we got Crypto Town all in like 30 minutes. I have a whole lot of prep to do. Scott Squared. I saw people talking about it, man.

Always a pleasure. Welcome back anytime, guys. Of course, I will be back tomorrow. Same time, same place. Thanks, Scott, man. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Peace, Scott. Bye. Let's go.