The Wolf Of All Streets - How Bitcoin Will Decentralize Social Media | Justin Rezvani, Zion

Episode Date: July 26, 2022

Can Bitcoin solve Social Media’s censorship problem? Justin Rezvani, Founder of Zion, a decentralized community-building platform, believes that the social media of the future will be built on Bitcoin and the Lightning Network. They will be censorship-resistant - giving creators control over their content, ownership of their online identity, and the ability to monetize without the need for a middleman. JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER 📩 https://www.getrevue.co/profile/TheWolfDen THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSOR ►► Have you ever had your exchange go completely offline during days of high volatility? Of course you have. We've all been through it. Those days are no longer with Bullish. Bullish is a new breed of digital asset exchange that empowers users to trade with deep and predictable liquidity across highly variable market conditions. They also have incredible automated market-making and industry-leading security. I can't get enough of this platform and it's fully regulated. Sign up here: https://bullish.com/melker Bullish is licensed by the Gibraltar Financial Services Commission. Virtual assets and related products are high risk. Consult your investment advisor and trade responsibly. Bullish is available in select locations only and not to U.S persons. Visit bullish.com/legal for important information and risk warnings. Episode Links: Justin Rezvani Twitter: https://twitter.com/justinrezvani? Justin’s Book: Unapologetic Freedom https://www.unapologeticfreedombook.com/ Production & Marketing Team: https://penname.co/ FOLLOW SCOTT MELKER • Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wolfofallstreets • Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io • Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe • Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3FASB2c SHOW NOTES 00:00 Intro 00:15 A Note from our sponsor 00:21 Meet Justin Rezvani 00:57 Why we need decentralized social networks 01:46 Peer-to-peer support for creators 03:16 Social Media built on sound money 03:45 Owning your online identity 07:00 The Lightning Network 09:20 How Bitcoin beats censorship 11:30 How to combat fake news, spam, and bots 15:05 A Note from our sponsor 18:20 Peer governance vs platform governance 19:36 The business model 23:00 You don’t need a blockchain for everything 23:42 Risks and challenges for mass adoption 27:37 Thanks for listening

This episode is sponsored by my good friends at Bullish. Stay tuned for more information on this amazing company later in the episode. Justin Rezvani sold his previous company when he was in his 20s and decided that he was going to retire until he found Bitcoin and the Lightning Network and decided that censorship resistance was the most important issue facing us now and that this was needed badly in social media. He even went ahead and wrote a book about it. You need to hear what's broken in current social media platforms and how he's going to fix it using Bitcoin and the Lightning Network. So you have a long history in social media, influencer marketing, and you landed in Bitcoin, which means you must see some extremely

important, important innovation happening or a reason that we need more decentralized or social media that's not like what we currently have. Why is that? Because I think the relationship between a creator and a fan can finally be one-to-one through money. I think that's the opportunity that Bitcoin and Lightning in particular, I saw in 2020 when I read the Lightning white paper, I was like, this is the solution I've been looking for for 10 years to allow creators to monetize directly from their fans. It's so obvious that this is the right solution. So I'm going to spend all my life force energy figuring out how to make that relationship better.

Right. That's brilliant. Great way to put it. And I think money is this just sort of broken layer that is so easily fixed and then can connect people and become sort of the internet of the future via the via the money because essentially it's value exchange right traditional social networks right now are taking our attention and then monetizing that through a third party and taking all of your data now what if we can build a system where the relationship is one-to-one that the creators can now monetize directly from the people that they care about the most and they can give the value back without anyone effectively in the middle even we look at direct support

platforms like patreon we think patreon is something that oh i'm supporting the creator directly but there's six companies in the middle of that you have the credit card you have the credit card processor you have the bank you have the website where the credit card is being hosted all of these different systems that take a cut along the way and like okay we took 30 at the end and it's single directional it's not directional back so it's not just creators being able to all of these different systems that take a cut along the way. I'm like, okay, we took 30% at the end. And it's single directional. It's not directional back. So it's not just creators being able to, fans being able to pay creators,

but what if creators can pay fans back and saying, thank you. Thank you for being a support mechanism for us. Lightning provides omnidirectional payments. So how does that happen on Zion? So the whole idea is that every user has a Lightning wallet effectively, and they can pay anyone at any time for any piece of content. So imagine you have Instagram, but every single piece of content is an active opportunity for a payment. Every comment, every reply, every

retweet is actually an opportunity for a payment. And I think that's an opportunity we haven't explored on social media yet. And that's really what we're building towards is a system that's built on money natively, not as an afterthought, but built on money. Is it an integration with existing platforms or will it be a complete standalone? It's going to be a standalone because what we found is these are basically these legacy centralized social media systems don't allow for this type of payment. That's why we're saying... Strike tips exist and nobody uses it, right? I mean, on Twitter. And again, because the system is centralized.

And even looking at that solution, that solution is lightning in some ways, but it's also highly centralized because it's an API call with an essentialized service within this kind of banking environment. So at the end of the day, we had to start from scratch. And it's not just about the payment piece. It's also about the identity piece. So a creator will have a DID. And this is this persistent identity over space and time. They'll have a place where all their

content is hosted. This is this eventual road to decentralization. We won't start there, but eventually that's what we want to end up at is a creator should own everything. Everything that you do on your Twitter, all the messages you send, you should own. But the current paradigm of the relationship is not that. You don't really own anything on these centralized social networks. And at one time they can turn you off and it's all gone. We've built mansions in other people's backyards with no rental agreements. That's what creator's paradigm has been. I love that. That seems like a monster challenge. It is a monster challenge.

It's super hard, right? Like I asked myself, I was pretty much kind of retired. I was like, I'd sold my business when I was 27. I was off. I was like, I got out of the thing. Somehow I ended up trying to solve one of the hardest problems on the web, which is like communication and social decentralized. But I believe that I can do it.

That's why I'm spending all my life force energy on this. So there's obviously the challenge just of building it, which you just talked about. But you also have to have sort of the field of dreams, like if you build it, they will come. Right. So like how do you get the I don't know, 100 million people then to use it? I think my plan has been I want creators to own this. So one approach was we wanted all most of our investors to be influencers. That's what was a big reason why I brought in Tony Robbins, Aubrey Marcus, Mark Moss, Robert Breedlove, Aaron Rodgers, Dan Held, like all these people that are friends of ours. I wanted them to be on

the cap table and have ownership of this to be like creators actually own this system and then they can bring their audience over. That was my strategy because that's what I spent the last 10 years of my career doing. Can you talk about that? Sure. 2012, Instagram gets bought by Facebook for a billion dollars. I was 24. I said, hey, is there an app that pairs an influencer to a brand? There wasn't an app on the app store.

So like I think any 24 year old, I just built an app. We were the first way you could run ads on Instagram for almost three years so if a brand wanted to grow their Instagram account they called us like hey we need uh we want to grow our followers we don't know how to do it on Instagram like cool we'll do it for you with all these influential people and that's how the business took off I mean I made more money for six weeks building that business than I had done the last three years of working at a regular job it's crazy and so we had a monopoly effectively on it in some ways. For years. Why didn't anybody else compete? I don't know why people didn't build an app at the time. I was like confused. I was like, why are we the only app? And then I sold it in 2016. So everyone, I think,

caught on after a while. And then ads started running on Instagram in 2015. But it's not like the ad platform now. We have to remember Instagram in 2013 is a completely different thing. Video hadn't been launched yet. It was just photos. It was photographers posting their beautiful images for people to gawk at. But there was a lot of attention there and brands were like, I mean, there's an article I wrote in 2015 that's out on Inc. Magazine. It was like, brands should pay attention to Instagram. That was like, and it's out there. It's out on the internet. Like, what is this thing we should probably pay attention to, to run ads? We were just an early, we were just early. And I think there's a good thing about being early. It's hard. It's really hard to be one of the first. I think that's what I'm running

into right now, is this lightning thing is so small. We talked about this yesterday a little bit. There's probably 10 to 15,000 people in the world that use Lightning. Be honest, like really honest about ourselves. It's this super small thing. Our hopefulness is that it expands the world. How much risk is there since Lightning is so small that it can't scale even if you do? I think there's a tremendous amount of risk. I think it's an un, like in a lot of ways, yes, we believe that there's 40 million transactions that can be throughput per second on Lightning. Hasn't been proven yet. So it's in a lot of ways some experimental technology, but I'm willing to take the risk. The investors that want to be part of this project are willing to take the risk.

I think we're going to see over the next few years the companies that help scale that solution. I'll give an example. A year ago, I started this company in November 2020. A year ago, there wasn't company November 2020. A year ago, there wasn't a service that you can use an API call to start a lightning node. Now voltage exists, right? So now I can just use an API call, get a node, run it. There weren't services that you can automate channels. Next year, there'll be a service where I can automate channel liquidity balancing and all these crazy things that right now require a person to do this stuff. Eventually eventually there'll be a company and the infrastructure to build it. So the way I frame it

is right now where Lightning and some of these applications are is like the web in the early 90s. Right now we have Squarespace. We can create a website and do it in a few seconds. That didn't exist in the 90s. Eventually there'll be infrastructure that allows this stuff to scale more easily. I remember when we used to develop websites in Flash. Yeah. And it would take you like a month to fix spelling error. Yeah, Flash Player, that thing that popped up in a noise. Like, you don't have Flash Player enabled.

Like, what the fuck is that? But I think the point of what I'm also trying to do is I want to build a consumer product. I want to obfuscate a lot of this complicated stuff out there. Because users, I don't think, care. I don't think they care necessarily about all this. They just want to move money between two people and they want it to feel free. The difference is that we want to do it through an open source protocol and not write our own. Why were we able to launch a product and within six months do 120,000 transactions

without ever writing a single payment processing code? We used Lightning. But all these other companies require all this complex stuff that they have to build their own payment processor. But we're using an open source payment processor. You've obviously gone pretty far down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Right. So that you even wrote a book. I wrote a book. Yes, I wrote a book on censorship. So it's called Unapologetic Freedom. Basically, it's a book on the last 200 years of censorship and then potentially how Bitcoin defeats censorship. So my thought is that financial censorship is that stronghold. Bitcoin is a hope for us.

I think that if Bitcoin can credibly enforce a 21 million fixed supply, it can be the world's reserve currency. And I believe that having sound money is one of the most important things to our national security. So not just censorship, but also national security. Bitcoin is of that most importance. One of the most important American values, ownership of property in a lot of ways. So the book is about censorship and Bitcoin. And basically censorship resistance doesn't exist otherwise. Not really, because if you don't own your content, if you don't own how the content moves, if you don't

own the actual money that you're engaging with, these are highly centralized, censorship rich systems. And I'm not saying that the first version that we're going to launch is going to be perfect. It's just about developing the technical patterns and for people to be aware. For me, this is an awareness book. It's like, hey, all this stuff you're doing on social media, just be aware of what it is. Be aware of who the customer is. Be aware of how they're manipulating you. Be aware of how they can just turn you off. As a creator, know that this can happen over time. And then here's a solution. Bitcoin does give like a light at the end of the tunnel. So it is a light at the end of the tunnel, effectively. It feels like the last couple of years, certainly, maybe since the last two elections,

but there really has been a lot of pushback on the way that social media platforms manage our data, what they decide to allow to be posted and what they don't. So it seems that obviously people would be able to post whatever they want on your platform. I hope so. I hope so. That's my goal is that this system moves beyond me. They should be able to post because it's about communities.

It's not about us as a platform. We're focused on being a utility more than a platform. We wanna develop the framework that allows applications to be built and creators to build their own communities online. That's really my focus as kind of the founder, I guess, of this organization. How do you then handle fake news? Or do you just allow it to be a part of those areas?

It's something that I'm thinking about every single day is how do you combat some of these systems that potentially will, and I don't have a good answer for it yet. I don't know. I know that the content that we want to be able to be posted won't be on any centralized server. That's what I know. I don't want it to be on Zion servers, for example. And so I kind of want to put the responsibility on creators themselves. That's really my focus and my thoughts of how do we build a system in that way. I had spoken to the CEO of Arweave, and they're creating they're creating this just massive basically like database of all news that's ever existed. And I kind of talked to him about it

and his answer, which made a lot of sense, is that fake news is actually a very important part of this time in history and will be a very important part of actually the historical context sort of when you look back. So including fake news actually makes sense because it helps tell the story of the reality of what it is now. Of course. So maybe fake news isn't such a bad thing in that regard. And I would argue that a bigger problem in social is spam. I mean, you see it when you make, you make, and so one of the things that I'm working on in terms of combating spam is we're applying this proof of work system into Zion. And what that means is when you join a community and you want to make a post inside of that community, you escrow a certain amount of Bitcoin in terms of sats to the creator's community that you're posting to. So money actually

moves out of your wallet into the creator's wallet. And then if your comment is deleted for spam, hate speech, whatever it may be, predicated by the creator, the. And then if your comment is deleted for spam, hate speech, whatever it may be predicated by the creator, the admin of that community, you lose your stake. But if your comment stays up for more than 24 hours, you get the money, you get the Bitcoin right back. So what this does is it creates a consequence for being spam, for being a bad actor, for potentially doing fake news for that community at large. So we're using this concept of proof of work inside of the system. This is where hash cash came from. This is where the Bitcoin algorithm came from,

was this idea of staking a certain amount of Bitcoin to send an email. Now we're doing that for individual pieces of content inside of a system. So I think this is going to be the cornerstone of preventing spam on social. And I think it's one of the biggest problems. So we're seeing with Twitter right now. Yeah, I mean, the biggest, it's brilliant because people have no disincentive to create bots, to spam, to be trolls. Yeah. I mean, there's no disincentivization to be an asshole. Exactly. And I outlined this in the book is that in the real world, this doesn't exist. You can't

be a bad person to someone in real life and just get away with it. It just doesn't work. But on social, we've allowed this whole, oh, it's open, it's free. It's like, it shouldn't be that way. I want to build the safest and most civil place online. And I think Bitcoin provides a solution to be able to build that solution. I'm 45 years old. I joke about this all the time with people on Twitter. But the things you say on Twitter to someone, you had said that you were gonna have to fight Yes, you could you couldn't troll someone without saying it to their face

You can't in the real world and most of these people that do it are would never do it in person They're afraid they think like oh, I'm behind a screen. I'm behind this keyboard My thing is people should just be good people I think this type of a system will incentivize being a good person Not all this terrible hate. Because also the algorithms are very dangerous. Zion doesn't have algorithms because they don't know the difference between really hateful content and really engaging content. It's just, oh, this is engaging. Let's boost it. Let's put it in front of more people.

But it could be misinformation. It could be hateful. It could be negative. It could be all these terrible things of society. And I don't believe that's the right way we should move forward. Everybody knows that there are advantages to trading on both centralized and decentralized exchanges. But why not choose an exchange like Bullish that offers the best of both worlds? Bullish's total trading volume recently exceeded $25 billion in just seven months since they launched. And they have the best liquidity in the game when it comes to Bitcoin USD. Now, Bullish has released the first major upgrade to its liquidity pool technology with the

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is to create more attention, drive more engagement, sell it to a third party and say, hey, we have this many users, we have this many people. The reason Twitter doesn't want to tell you how many bots it has is because the revenue will be implicated in the back end. Right. I was at the on. If it's 25% bots, you should be making 25% less money.

I think it's more than that. I was at the All In Summit watching Elon live, and he's like, yeah, it could be 5%, but it could be 90%. He's on the stage saying this, and I'm like, holy shit. Twitter actually is 90% spam. What does that look like for their business? Everything collapses. And I know this from the history of building my first company, the Amplify.

The engagement rate on Twitter is horrendous compared to any other social media platform. The click-through rate, the conversion rate, like nobody does influencer marketing on Twitter. Nobody ever does that. It's not a thing. It's an afterthought. It's like, oh, we're going to do Instagram and then we're going to do YouTube. And then we will just share on Twitter just because, because we have no insights in terms of the number of fake followers and bots onto that system because it's so easy. All you need is an email and a password and you have an account. That's it. That's the only system. And you can create email and password for free. Yeah, exactly. And so my perspective on why are we building Zion on Lightning also

brings this proof of human element, is that you actually have to have a wallet, you have to fund the wallet, and then you get to go do things. I don't think bots are going to go fund Bitcoin wallets to go do bad things inside of this system. So now we've added this layer of proof of human inside this. And Bitcoin, again, this all comes back to Bitcoin be able to do that, Lightning be able to provide that, because I was never able to move $0.10 to you on the web. It costs you $0.30 plus 2.5%. And the reason is because of all this fraud, all these other things online.

But a credit card transaction can never send $0.10. So what's the proxy if I can send $0.10 to a creator on the web now? What does that look like? What if the minimum is not $5 anymore? What kind of system can you create in that world? I think we're seeing major pushback against some of these platforms. For sure. Nobody uses Facebook.

That's under I don't know what age. But Facebook already feels like it's dying. It feels like now we're seeing this major pushback against Instagram and Twitter. Do you think we get to a world where those are irrelevant platforms? And if so, is this what replaces them? Or do you think we actually get to some sort of post-social media existence? I think the end state is what I believe people want is this concept of peer-to-peer economics.

They want a way to be able to exchange value between peers, not just empirically from likes and favorites, but through money. And I think the next social networks will need to be built on monetary layers they need to allow the users to own everything the creators should own everything the systems have to be open source they have to be focused on having peer governance of the systems versus the centralized platform governance all these things need to happen in the new world of social media. And those are the promises that either the platforms have to change, probably unlikely.

These are legacy systems. It's great that Elon's trying to do all the things he wants to do. And if he buys it, but it's still like, you have to understand how it's built, right? Look at the technology. Jack even said, he's like, I couldn't change it. I was there, the CEO, he's this brilliant, amazing Bitcoin or amazing mind, but he couldn't change it because of who owned it and the way the system was built originally. And you have all these legacy systems. So I think it has to be built from the ground up. And I'm hopeful for that. I think that the new world will have systems like this. Is there an advertising model in the new world where maybe you have a wallet, but you opt in sort of like a brave, brave, right? You actually get paid to be shown advertising or something like that. And you choose or do you think it becomes strictly peer to peer?

I think I think I think where the advertising component comes in is through still influencer marketing. I think the the the end state is, OK, brands want to engage with someone like you because you have a mass audience. But there's really cool things that can be done like one of the products we want to build is this concept of bringing two communities together for a 24-hour period so imagine we had two follower sets and there was an open chat and best example is like ufc just imagine this world you have two ufc fighters that have these two communities and they have chat rooms that are running for their communities and then the night before the fight they bring in their two follower communities into one single chat room and see what they do

and kind of talk to you. So I think that can be done between people and brands. That can be done between two different people. That can be collabs done from two different creators to create this crossover. Those are, I think, the opportunities for advertising in the new world. So how will these future companies make money

if the value transfer is between the customer and the creator and not the company? It's going to be a marketplace model of taking fees on transactions. I think that's going to be the end state is like, OK, you might need to route through one of our nodes. You might need to route through one of these systems. So maybe there's a hop that you have to go because lightning requires hops. It might require depending on channel topology. So you take a small fee within that. So the end state is a marketplace business where, you know, I'm going to choose to use this application and then they're going to take 10 basis points across every transaction to be used. That I think is the end state. One of the business models we have is that if you want to stand up

your own node inside of Zion as a creator, you pay us a fee because we're hosting all the infrastructure for you. We're helping you make this quick and easy. So you pay us to host that. So that's our current business model right now. And I think the marketplace is the end state. It's taking small fees on all these mass transactions. And I think there's a proxy for it because when we started, we've done 120,000 transactions in the network. We've moved millions of sats from people and fans, from creators and fans.

If we took us, we didn't take any fees now, but if we did, there is a potential business model. And we only have 3,000 people using this thing. If we had millions of people, that number obviously goes up tremendously. So at a point, it just becomes scale. Yes. So, you know, 100 million people doing it,

obviously making up, but then comes back to the question of, let's hope that the Lightning Network or whatever it ends up built on can actually handle those transactions. That that's the thing that i'm going through right now unknown unknown we're we're i'm realizing how experimental some of this stuff is and i i have dreams i do have dreams i'm like i hope this will work this way i'm a dreamer i believe but this stuff is so early i had an investor tell me last week he's like you think you're early you're like way earlier than the early that you think you are in this stuff. I think that's true. And I think we

all are. We're sitting at this edge like, oh, this is going to change the world. But it's much further out than I originally anticipated. I think, you know, we can obviously do the Bitcoin crypto differentiation in crypto. We're seeing things break left and right right now. Yeah. At even minor scale. You know, like these blockchains that were supposed to be faster and be able to be cheaper and be able to sort of sustain these massive amount of transactions, they're just like breaking. And I don't think this is maybe an unpopular opinion.

I don't think you need a blockchain for everything. Oh, I agree. We don't fix everything. Yeah, like blockchain, we talked a little bit about this, like about real estate, but you don't need a blockchain for everything. I agree, we don't fix everything. Yeah, like blockchain, like we talked a little bit about this like about real estate, but you don't need a blockchain for everything, particularly in social. I think the idea that every time a piece of content is posted, it should go on a blockchain to me is highly inefficient. Why? What's the point of that? Like you want it to live on forever? It's not necessary. The things that are, that's why Lightning is not a blockchain. It's a peer-to-peer network that in case you have to write something at the end of the blockchain, you can do it. So I have particular opinions on use the web for what it's good for, which is scaling throughput, speed, and efficiency.

And then use blockchains for what they're used for. And I think that's the hardness of money. I don't think you need a blockchain for everything. So let's assume that we can operate at scale. We can build this entirely. Is there anything that you still see, regulators, legislators, politicians, governments, IMF, you name it, that could still sort of stop this? Of course. Even if everything went perfectly?

Of course. I think the regulators don't have full understanding of what this stuff is. And I'll give an example of like a money transfer license, right? If I'm moving, if I have two nodes and I'm running a transaction between these two nodes and this app is just the viewer, is the app the money transfer service? Are you as a lightning node, a hop in the network, a money transfer service? No, it's a protocol. But to them, in some ways, this is a money transfer service. So the question is, can we, this is not PayPal, this is not Venmo, this is not an internal ledger. Can we build legislation to define what the stuff actually is, which is technology that's allowed to use money that's native to the internet across the system?

That's what I'm hopeful with the regulations. They just have clarity on what we're building here. And of course they can say, oh, this is not, this is a money transfer thing. Now everyone has to get a money transfer license that runs a note on lightning or it's impossible. That could stop it. I think governments can absolutely stop it. But the hope is education. Like my thing is I wrote a book because I want to educate people on this situation. I want to be an educator in the system because I've opened my eyes in two years about this stuff. I wasn't like huge in this space a couple of years ago. Yeah, I love that for you. Listen, I think we have that feeling that no matter when we arrive, we're late.

Yeah. Right? I'm 2016, and I'm like, these 2014 guys, man, killing it. Right? But it's pretty incredible, only two years. Less than that. Yeah, almost less than that,

that I've been down this kind of rabbit hole. But that means you got it very quickly. I read, I was flying to Istanbul, and I read the Lightning White Paper like four or five times. That's how it was like really sudden because it was the problem my original company was trying to fix. I did it with PayPal. Now we want to do it with Lightning. So for you, it was more about the Lightning White Paper specifically than perhaps the Bitcoin? It was the payment. It was the money.

I didn't, I haven't, I mean, Bitcoin White Paper, sure, but the Lightning white paper made sense to me. Because I know Bitcoin transactions would never scale this. You can't move pennies on the Bitcoin network. It's impossible. You have to use Lightning. It doesn't. So how do we now get from, okay, 10% of the population or 5% of the population understands this to mass adoption at scale? How do we get 100 million people using Zion? I think it's people like you. I think it's the impact of people like you educating the world. It takes creators, creators that have an education. And my mission is that I want to empower the next generation of creators that are building all these YouTube videos to just tell them, hey, this is an option. This is a new version of money where it allows for peer-to-peer. And there's a lot of distractions happening in that space. This is a new monetary system money where it allows for peer-to-peer and there's a lot of distractions happening in that space.

This is a new monetary system that you should pay attention to and we all should educate everyone around it around the world. That's my thoughts on how to do it. Well, I love it and I hope we see a billion people. Me too, man. It would be awesome. It would be great. Like in a couple of years, like I remember that interview, like we did that thing.

That's why we have to, I find that we have to like refresh and do these again. I love having repeat guests six months a year, 18 months down the road, because it gives a really nice sort of roadmap and looking back to see how right, wrong, or how fast and slow these things happen. And improvements. One of the things that I value myself is that if I make a mistake or I made a wrong technical decision, which I've done. I mean, we launched this in August.

I made some bad technical decisions that I'm fixing now. Like I would have said to you a year ago, it's good to move data within a lightning transaction. And actually the payload of the data inside of transaction, I've realized that's not going to scale. And it was a mistake that I made technically. Now I'm re-architecting that mistake. I was like, okay, yeah, move payloads and data. I was like, no, no, that's wrong. That was a wrong decision. Now I'm improving it and changing it. So I will be honest and open. That's my prerogative. I want to be open to my mistakes and then push forward. I absolutely love that. So here's to a billion people using it. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you haven't

already left a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please do that now. Spotify just added ratings, so please go ahead and click that five star. I'll see you guys next time.