The Wolf Of All Streets - I NEED TO BUY MORE ETHEREUM - WHAT I LEARNED AFTER A DEEP DIVE INTO CRYPTO | SHAAN PURI

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

Shaan Puri is a prolific thought leader in the business world. He recently took a play from Bill Gates’s book and took a weeklong deep dive into crypto, completely removed from everything else in the real world. After this journey, Shaan recognized a lot of truths both good and bad about the space and came on the show to share his raw and uncut opinions on everything from NFTs to growth hacking to top signals and the metaverse. This tell-all episode reveals a lot about us and our interests as investors that may not be obvious to even experienced veterans. -- Sorare: Where fantasy meets reality. Collect, trade and earn weekly prizes on https://thewolfofallstreets.link/sorare. #OwnYourGame #Bitcoin #Crypto #Sorare --- If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with your colleagues & friends, rate, review, and subscribe. This podcast is presented by Blockworks. For exclusive content and events that provide insights into the crypto and blockchain space, visit them at: https://www.blockworks.co ーーー Join the Wolf Den newsletter: ►►https://www.getrevue.co/profile/TheWolfDen/members If you want to hang out on Discord with my mentor Christopher Inks and myself, join TexasWest Capital. He's offering a 50% discount to my subscribers with code wolfsden50%off. Includes 30+ hours of educational content, 50+ actionable setups every week, live weekly training of tips, tricks, and techniques that will get you trading profitably right away, and so much more! ►►https://howtotradetowin.com/ The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

This episode is brought to you by SoRare. Stay tuned for more information on them later in the episode. What's up, everybody? I'm Scott Melker, and this is the Wolf of Wall Street's podcast, where twice a week, I talk to your favorite personalities from the worlds of Bitcoin, finance, music, art, sports, politics, basically anyone with a good story to tell. And I've got a guest today who has a good story to tell. He's seemingly accomplished it all at a very, very young age, seen everything and done

everything. He's an avid tweeter, entrepreneur. He kind of runs Twitch, apparently. He's sold a few companies. The guy's been very, very busy. But most importantly for us, he recently did a deep dive into crypto. He basically cleared his schedule apparently for two weeks and focused solely on crypto. And I want to hear all about that, why he did it and what he discovered. Sean Puri, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Yeah, thank you for having me. I should correct one thing in the intro. I'm not at Twitch anymore. I quit a little while ago, but the rest, the rest, I'll take it. Peace out, Twitch. No more Twitch. So anyways, as I mentioned, you did that deep dive into crypto. I want to talk about why you decided to do that first.

Yeah. So I should say, like, I, like probably most people in this podcast, have been into crypto for a while. And a while means a different thing to a lot of people. For me, it was like, I don't know, 2013, 2014, started hearing about it. Initially, like most people, brushed it off. And then started getting into it. What I did recently was I took what Bill Gates calls his think week. So I had read this a while back that Bill Gates, once a year, will take a week. And he basically retreats to a cabin, takes a bunch of books on any topic that he's interested in, right? So some topic that he's encountered throughout the course

of the year that he's itching to go deeper with, but he's so busy, he doesn't have time. He carves out this week as think week, he leaves his family, his friends, he goes to this cabin with a pile of books and he just reads up on it. He just thinks about it and he's learning a bunch of things and he comes back and it's like one of the more, and he's learning a bunch of things and he comes back and it's like one of the more, one of his favorite weeks out of the year. And so I had heard that and naturally I was like,

oh, I got to try that. That sounds amazing. And so I said, what would I do it with right now? And I said, well, there's been a lot of developments in the crypto world that I have been seeing from afar

or even like participating in very lightly, but I haven't dove in. And this is very much like DeFi, NFTs. I mean, it feels like every week there's like five new projects that are, you know, quote unquote, you know, game changers that are coming out. And I'd only been like intellectually knowing it, but I'm not like, I've learned the hard way that just knowing something is very different than really knowing it. And the difference is, have you done it? Have you had any experiences with it? So I wanted to take a week to go in and actually play with all the new toys that exist in the crypto world. I wanted to use them and not just understand what they are from afar, but actually go in and

participate in what people call in web three. So that's what I did. I took, I took about a week, week and a half. I cleared my calendar, canceled all meetings and, and for not just for me, for my team. Also, I have a couple of guys who work with me on, on all my different ventures. And I said, Hey, cancel everything. We're, we're going to do this together. It's like a hack week, but we're none of us are coders. So we said, you know, it's a hack week, but for us, it's about, you know about playing with all these different tools. So that's the why and the what.

So what did you learn? I mean, what was the end result of that? Are you feeling more passionate about crypto? Are you dismissive of some of it because it didn't work that well? What was your experience? Yeah, the biggest takeaway was I need more ETH. I was like, you know, there's been so much of my initial investments were very much in Bitcoin. And I think Bitcoin is great. And I think it's a great store of value. this much developer energy and this much sort of like economic activity flowing through a network, a new network. This reminds me of like seeing early Facebook, seeing early Twitter. And at the time I was just a user. I wasn't an investor at that time, but now I'm an investor and a user. And so I can do both. And so my first takeaway was, okay, I need to go and I need to buy a lot more, a lot more ether.

The second thing was there is a whole lot of interesting stuff. A lot of it is sort of what I'll call, it's like, you know, like magic tricks. So it's like work for work sake in a way. It's like, look, we can do this and this and this and this. It's like, but wait, why would anybody want to do do that what's the use case of why is this different so there's a even when you go talk to experts because when I announced I was doing this on Twitter I have a pretty big Twitter following so a lot of like pretty hardcore NFT or DeFi people reached out and they're like oh happy to help you get into this in any way you want and when I talked to

them even the experts it's a very fuzzy understanding a lot of people have. And so I'm a believer that I'm open-minded and I'm pretty optimistic, but I'm also, I'm a truth teller. And there are many things that are not quite figured out that, you know, yes, you can do it, but why would you do it? And how is this actually any better than what exists today? So that's like my kind of like very high level summary, but then I could tell you a couple of the interesting things we actually did during the week that, that I think maybe the audience will like. All right. So the first one was NFTs. So I wanted to do two things. I wanted to invest in some of the NFT projects and I'll tell you why. And then the second thing is I've made my own NFT. So let's talk about investing in the NFT project. So again, here comes Truth Teller.

A lot of people talk about NFTs like Bored Apes or CryptoPunks. And they talk about it in this flowery language, like the art just resonates with them and the community. The community is what's so important. I bought this ape. It's more than just a picture of a monkey. It's a community. And it's like, you know, so here's what I did. I joined, I joined the communities. I went into the discords and I hung out with the people that are in there. And here's the test. The test is if I took away the price appreciation, if it was just locked

and whatever the price you bought in, that's what it'll be worth. So you're not going to lose any money, but you're not going to gain any money. Now, how much do you care about this community? How much do you care about this NFT project? And the reality was a lot of that community kind of hand wavy flowery feel good stuff, in my opinion, is at best, it's a nice to have. And at worst, it's just lying to yourself and others about why you're really interested in this thing. And a lot of people are really interested in this thing because they bought something that's appreciated like crazy, and they want it to keep going up. And so they need to keep shouting the virtues of how great this is, how much of a classic this is, how much this is going to be worth so that their price keeps going up. And so that's one thing I found, you know, when I went in and I was, I was hoping that that's not the case, but that's what I felt was the case with some of the more popular NFT profile

picture projects. And then on the other side, I went to, and I should say, it's not that it's not that there's no value in the community. It's just disproportionate. You know, it's 90% of what they talk about and it's 10% of what actually matters or some ratio like that. Sure, sure. I hate to interrupt you, but that also works to the downside. Yes. I found in crypto, which is interesting because I hear you describe that, but I've described many times how certainly from 2017, 2018 altcoins that went down 90, 95%, people also became passionate community members about those losses because they were stuck in the coins and basically wanted to justify sticking around. So it's a really

interesting sort of bipolarity there. Yeah. And there's like the Lindy effect or whatever, which is people probably familiar with it, but for however long something's been around, if it's been around for 10 years, it's likely to be around for another 10 years, it's sort of a symmetry in that sense um they're sort of the same thing with these run-ups and prices you know the faster the run-up the the faster the rundown can be and so you know you're sort of ex your ex your expectation on how fast if a network effect can be spun up very quickly it can be spun down quite viciously as well and that's something people don't talk about they talk about network effects like they're this everlasting undefeated, you know, thing. And it's true. Network effects

are very strong, but if they ever do start to unwind, they unwind viciously. And you can go look at dig and see, you know, the popularity of dig on the run-up versus the run down. Um, you know, there's, there's been many social networks that have MySpace that have had tremendous network effects as they're building up. But as they unwind, it's like being on the wrong side of a tetherball game. And that tetherball is just the momentum is just swinging against you all of a sudden. And there's really no way to stop it. It's a great analogy. That works with brands as well, actually. In my early marketing days, we worked with New Balance and they all of a sudden became massively popular overnight because a bunch of hipsters in New York City started wearing New Balance and then everybody started buying them, but they didn't

know how to capitalize that. And then when they stopped being cool, they had produced all these shoes and had scaled up to that level and had a real problem in scaling back down to their normal demand. Right. Exactly. And so I think, you know, their network effects are definitely, you know, an investor's best friend, but it is worth understanding that they are not this, this, you know, they're not father time, they're not undefeated. So, so the other thing I would bring up is minting an NFT project. So I said, I wanted to create an NFT. And I thought through, okay, we did a kind of a two hour brainstorm. What could we do an NFT about? You know, it's like today, a lot of NFTs are sort of pretty pictures, you know, of animals. So, you know,

pick your favorite rhyming animal, whether it's like a pudgy penguin, a lazy lion, right? Like if you figure out some random animal and then you generate a bunch of variations and then you tell everybody that this is a great community and this thing's gonna run up and um and you know i even thought about i was like you know with with my size of audience and and kind of like if i got this to the hands of a few friends like you could actually like pump one of these things and you know you could basically drive it to popularity just through that but obviously that's not something i wanted to do and i thought okay well what's something i would, what's an NFT I would actually want to stand behind. And so I came up with a different, a different idea and actually had a pretty interesting experiment. So I created an NFT

called five minutes of fame. And what this was, was I took one of the assets I own, which is, I have a podcast called my first million. It's a podcast that gets maybe a million downloads in a month, just shade under a million downloads in a month right now. And so it's a pretty popular podcast, right? That's about 10 million in a year. And so I thought, okay, what'd be cool? And I should say, the other thing is me and my co-founder Sam, or the co-host of the podcast, Sam, we both are entrepreneurs first, podcasters kind of second. We built and sold our own companies. So we weren't really looking at the podcast as this moneymaker.

We ended up actually selling the podcast to HubSpot when his company got acquired by HubSpot. So there's no – the long story – there's a long way of saying there's no way to advertise on the pod anymore. So you can't buy ad slots. So I thought, oh, this would be interesting. We still get hit up by brands trying to advertise or guests trying to pitch themselves because they want to get on and talk about their project or whatever and get a bunch of people to hear about it. So I thought, oh, what if I actually sold time as an NFT?

And so I created five minutes of fame. What this entitled the holder to was five minutes of airtime on the podcast. Now, or in the future, you could just hold it and let the podcast is growing 20% month over month. So you could just like hold this a year and it'll be worth more than it is today. You could buy it and you could flip it. You could sell it to another brand that you think might, you know, if you were in tune with this NFT sale and others aren't, you could buy this, you could rent it out or sell it in fragments to other people. Or you could just cash it in right away. You could send it to our wallet, which burns it. And you could say, I'd like my five minutes of airtime, please. You can come on. You could talk about whatever the heck you want. So you could talk about, you know, you could just brainstorm,

shoot the shit with us. You could shout out your project. You could say your company name 500 times. You can do whatever you wanted in your five minutes of airtime. And so that was the project that I kind of announced on Twitter. And I started the bidding at 0.25 ETH, which was, I think at the time, like $700, $800. And it ended up selling by the end. I said, this is going to go for the duration of my think week and my crypto week. And so, you know, we'll see where the, where the bidding ends and it landed at 11 and a half ETH. So about $35,000 roughly is what that sold for. And I don't even know who it was, right? It's permissionless. So anybody was able to buy it. I didn't need to approve them beforehand. And so I thought that was one of the more interesting experiments and I guess profitable parts of CryptoWeek.

So in your deep dive on NFTs, clearly, you got a taste for sort of the FOMO aspect of it, the hype aspect of it, but also the real sort of use case on the back end. Some of the utility, yeah. Right. So you saw both. But having done that, what do you think the future for NFTs really looks like? I mean, I don't know that you agree with me, but I, hearing what you said, I agree pudgy penguins and lazy lions and stuff that, you know, those are sort of the first iteration. They're fun, but they're going to largely disappear into the ether, so to speak. But, you know, we obviously know the incredible power potentially of NFTs by eliminating every third party from our transactions, right? We did transfer some value from you to you without somebody being in the middle. So what do you think after doing that

deep dive, that long-term utility is, where are we going to see the major use cases for NFTs? So I think, and by the way, this pudgy penguin, lazy lion, the sort of like the rhyming animals, the silly squirrels, I don't know what else there is. You know, this isn't the first, right? There was CryptoKitties and they kind of had this run up, you know, during their time. So I would say, here's how, if you're asking me, here's how I think this plays out, you know, sort of like one man's opinion.

I wouldn't pretend to say this, like my confidence level would be low that I'm fully correct, but I think I'm directionally correct in this, which is a few of these NFT art projects will work and they will stick around and drive value. Hard to know which ones. So is it going to be CryptoPunks? Is it going to be Bored Apes? And I think there's likely to be a long, they're likely to sort of have in value and then stay there for a long time. So I don't think they're all going to go to zero.

I think the blue chip ones are going to go, are going to have a pretty severe dip and then stay there for a long time. So I don't think they're all going to go to zero. I think the blue chip ones are going to have a pretty severe dip and then plateau before an eventual run up many years down the road. So that's how I predict those play out. The second prediction I would have is that you're going to see NFTs take off in a bigger way where there is more uh a little more utility and why do i believe that well um gaming i think is where you got to look for where nfts are our next next the next hot spot for nfts so why is that games historically um already have in-game items as like a core component of what they do and what we're seeing right now with games like

Axie Infinity, where Axie, I think, has done over a billion dollars in revenue within a very small period of time. Two now, I think. It's crazy. Yeah. Two billion in revenue with a tiny player base. What you're seeing is that if you ever worked in games, there's this revenue, there's a metric that everybody cares about, which is ARPU, which stands for average revenue per user or average revenue per paying user. There's two metrics that you care about, which is ARPU, which stands for average revenue per user or average revenue per paying user. There's two metrics that you care about. Those are two of the core KPIs. And what's playing out, I think, is that when you turn in-game items from something that is sort of like the scarcity is controlled by the developer and they can turn it on and off as much as they want.

They can run a Black Friday sale or whatever. The lack of scarcity makes these in-game items worth less. And then the other thing is that you don't truly own them, meaning you can't buy them, sell them. You can't have the buy and flip part of the economy because usually in a game like Fortnite, the money only goes one way. You pay the money, you get the Fortnite skin usually like in a game like fortnight the money only goes one way you pay the money you get the fortnight skin or the in-game item but you can't sell that thing uh to the next person and you can't have this thing appreciate value and benefit from it so there's no um there's there's no ownership involved in it and so i think what we're seeing with axi is that when you allow ownership by the players, when you allow them to play to earn and play to own, you are going to get a different behavior. You're going to get

a much larger share of their wallet because they can make an economic investment decision for themselves. And of course, it's not going to all be pretty. A lot of the stuff they're going to buy is going to go to zero. But that's sort of like, you could say that about any asset class at any given time. The metaverse will be just like the real world. Great. Yeah, exactly. But I, so I think it's, you know, you got to say that some people don't think, Oh, it's all going to go up, but also you don't need to say that to anybody who's smart because they understand. Yes. That's of course, anywhere where there is up, there is also down. That doesn't mean it is not valuable.

And so I guess like the next thing I see happening in BANFT world is that games are going to adopt NFTs in a big way. And I'm an investor in a company now. My former co-founder, he just started this company that's basically Stripe for minting and minting NFTs. And game developers are all over it because they're saying, great, we want to be able to create NFTs in game. We want to be able to host a marketplace in our game where our customers, our users can buy and sell their items. And we want to be able to take a transaction fee of every buy and sell of those items. And the other thing we want to be able to do is sell packs of these and have people

open up a pack and get rare or common items inside. And we don't want to deal with any of the smart contract risk. And so you're going to see companies like my friend's company spin up that basically provide the picks and shovels, the tools for gaming companies to be able to implement this in their game without having to know about crypto. The consumer, the gamer doesn't need to own crypto in order to be able to use it. And the game doesn't have to take on any smart contract risk. And so I think stuff like that is going to turbocharge the adoption of this thing. So I think in games, it's going to become the norm that the users don't just have the item in the game, they own the item in the game, and they're able to actually benefit from the economic activity.

I think what you just described is certainly not inherent to NFTs, but it's probably the largest challenge for crypto in general as, you know, for the potential of mainstream adoption, which is that mostly in the crypto space, the tools just aren't there yet for grandma to do this as easily as she does everything else in her life. Forget about grandma. During crypto week, I could barely use it. I'm a tech investor. I'm a tech entrepreneur. And like, for example, have you ever played Axie, the game? I have not actually played the game, no. Right. And so, so this is what happens, right? There's a bunch of us, me and you, like people who are kind of like,

we're, we're, we're, we're, we're business people. We're kind of like analysts, commentator type people on the internet. We got our own podcasts or newsletters or whatever. And we talk about how this big trend is happening, but it's like never actually used it. Right. That's why I did the crypto week to begin with because i was like i think i should actually be a user the second thing i discovered is when i tried to be a user i was like holy shit i gotta take my eth i gotta bridge to this other fucking network and then i gotta go on that network i gotta download the ronin wallet what the hell is ronin is this do i trust this am i gonna lose all my money then i gotta get this game then i gotta learn the game and actually like level up in the game which which is already hard enough, right. To keep up with the latest games.

And it costs a lot of money, right? I mean, it costs money, right. And so just start. But what was remarkable is I have this other business. I have this e-commerce business and part of the e-commerce business to run it. I have some people overseas that are like, kind of like customer support or do different functions. So we have this wonderful woman named Irish. Who's our influencer outreach person. She reaches out to influencers and helps like basically sends our product so that, you know, whatever people are in the hands of influencers, people on Instagram post our shit. So I,

I saw on her profile, she was like selling an Axie. And I was like, wait, you play Axie? Like, you know, you're like, you are not like who I think of as like, you know, crypto nerd. And she's like, oh, yeah, everybody here in the Philippines is playing. And I was like, what? And she goes, I go, how did you guys learn this thing I don't know if you know, but there's this whole like economy of, I can basically create a team where I can basically gift an Axie to somebody and they play, they do the work. And then we share, we sort of split the revenue, almost like the team sponsor. It's like a running NASCAR, you know? Right. Or like back in the day, like, you know, the kind of the darker side is like the feudal landlord who, who basically rents it, rents out land to a farmer and then takes 40% of the winnings, you know, the earnings from the crop. And that's what's happening.

And so she was like, yeah, I basically somebody gifted me an Axie and I play and I earn. And then I have a team I manage in the Philippines. She's got like a multi-level marketing scheme going where like they have earnings. So I thought that was pretty remarkable that like, you know, the way that crypto spreads is not always what you see kind of in, you know, the Twitter bubble or the different places that we hang out. It is actually spreading to different audiences. And she, I asked her, I said, did you own any cryptocurrency before this? She goes, no, I go, it's not about crypto to them. She goes, it's not about crypto. She goes, she goes, it's about making money. And I found that I can make money. And she goes, everybody here understands games. So we know like what mobile gaming is.

And mobile gaming is super popular. This is a mobile game where you can make money. You just combine two things. I know that I already love. I love playing games. I love making money. You told me I can play games and make money. Boom. And so, and so now I see, I think that gaming is going to not only be the use case for NFTs. I think it is going to be a major driver of how crypto gets adopted by a bunch of people who are not looking to speculate on financial assets. Right. But essentially when you're talking about it, that adoption comes with not even having to know that it's crypto at all. Exactly. And that's the best thing, right? Like the best technologies, you know, we're on a Zoom call. Like what's a Zoom call? I don't know. Zoom works right, of course. Right. Like, do I know how WebRTC works?

Do I know what's going on under the hood? No, I don't need to know. I shouldn't know the names of the protocols, right? That's where crypto needs to get to is where, you know, we don't know the names of the protocols. There's not this super steep learning curve. How is that going to happen? A lot of people think that happens from decreasing like friction. I think that's true. Like making, making things easier to use easier

user interface. But I also think that's a bit of a cop-out. I think what it really happens is you need a Trojan horse. You need something like gaming. You need something like a social network, things that people really want to use because of the normal, like human drivers. And it should just come with crypto installed. So they're like, oh, cool. I earned money for having this awesome photo on this social network. Or I earned money for leveling up in this game.

These coins are great. I can actually sell my character or my in-game items and I can have earnings from that. I think that's how this is going to work in the future. So when it becomes easy enough for grandma and for guys like us to use it, do you think that we are looking at a ready player one type future, you know, where maybe my kids who are, you know, six and two, their jobs are in the metaverse or in games and they earn money as teenagers and they never go the popular route

that was so normal for you know people of our generations do i mean do you think that that's what we're looking at here moving forward do you love sports collectibles or fantasy sports as much as i do so rare is blending this together to create an entirely new gaming experience powered by its community so rare cards are officially licensed NFTs from over 160 clubs, including Real Madrid, Paris Saint-Germain, and Liverpool, and all built on Ethereum. You truly own your collectibles. They are productive gaming assets that will generate rewards if you're a good fantasy player like me. Join SoRare and connect with your favorite teams, live the game with passion, and earn weekly prizes. You can do all of this at the wolfofallstreets.link

slash so rare. So I hear this a bunch and I never know what the hell people are talking about. Okay. So if I ask you, what is the metaverse? What does this mean? What is this dorky term, the metaverse? What do you, I think everybody's saying this word. I think everybody has a different picture in their head of what this means. Mine's very fuzzy. So help me out. So tell me what you think the metaverse is. Then I'll tell you how I think about it. Well, I don't see it as an all-encompassing other world. I see Axie Infinity itself as sort of a metaverse. And I see these individual projects sort of developing into full metaverses or worlds of their own where somebody can go in, make a living, make money. But no, I don't see it as like an alternate universe to

our existing planet at all, which I think is how a lot of people imagine I don't see it as like an alternate universe to our existing planet at all, which I think is how a lot of people imagine it. I see it more as individual opportunities for people to sort of obsess or become engaged in that certain thing and then potentially make money or living within that ecosystem. So I think two things. I think we're not there yet and it's already here. Let me explain what that means. But back in the day, if you remember the early internet days, and you can go on YouTube and find these videos of people like on the news describing email or describing the internet, I have a whole playlist called OG internet. And it's basically just like how misunderstood this was. And, you know, like, you know, I forgot, I think it's like, you know, Bill Gates goes on

David Letterman and he's like so the internet what what is this thing i'm gonna i'm gonna go on my computer and you know and he's like he's like making a joke and uh you know the whole thing was a joke and at the time they called it cyberspace or the information super highway and that's to me information super that's to me what the metaverse is we're in the when back in when people used to call the internet cyberspace and the information superhighway, that's what, that tells me where we're in that phase of things because people call it the metaverse today. And I don't think once it actually arrives, it'll feel so normal. It won't be called anything. It'll just be the way we view, you know, the internet today. It's just like a simple part of our daily life. Okay. So,

so what does that mean? So a lot, a lot of people think that the Ready Player One analogy is what it's going to look like, meaning it's literally a virtual world. You maybe put on a VR headset or glasses or something, goggles or something like that, and you go into this fantasy world. And in the fantasy world, you have a character and all this stuff.

And I actually think that is going to happen. There's going to be parts of that. I have a VR headset, again, because I like to try everything and um and so i and i play with i play with vr as well vr is actually like frankly amazing like do you do you have an oculus i've tried i i don't own one but i tried the boxing and stuff and now i intend to get one it's very good you you gotta get one i'll send you one it's amazing it's basically like you you think because it's not popular yet that it means it must suck.

The exact opposite is true. You go put on an Oculus, I think it's called the Quest or the Go or whatever, the one that doesn't have the cord, and you play the games and you use the freaking thing, and it's mind-blowingly good. It's that good. Now, it's still uncomfortable. You don't want to stay in there for hours and hours. After an hour, you're like, dude, take this helmet off me. So there's, you know, there's still some problems with it and it's kind of expensive and whatever. But when you do go in there and you do play a game

or use one of the experiences, it's, it's unbelievable. Like there's a poker stars game. Everybody should go play where you're sitting at a table with you and your friends and you're just, you just talk out loud because it's got audio and video connected. You choose your characters. You see how you look. You can look like a cowboy or like a fat drunk guy or whatever. And then you can like, you can like pick up a beer bottle on the thing. You could tip it over. You could drink it. You could throw it at the next guy. It's going to crash on their head. You, you literally pick up the number of chips you want to bet. You have to like accurately pick up from your stack, the number of chips. You're not like pushing numbers in like a mouse. You're like grabbing your $25 chip and you throw it in and the way you toss it, that's how it shows up to everybody.

They see your hand flicking the chips into the middle of the table and you can smoke a cigarette. It's amazing. It's kind of an amazing experience. Some developer at PokerStars went nuts on this thing and built this. But I guess my point is there are experiences like that that are super immersive that are crazy. But then there's things like to me Instagram and tiktok are part of what you would call the metaverse which is I go there I go perform on this network I make virtual friends, you know, I have a bunch of friends on twitter I've never met in real life But they're people I like and respect and talk to and do deals with and share information with and share jokes with or whatever

Um, so, you know, we already have these kind of like virtual friends from across the world that you don't know their identity. We already like, I make money online. I have an e-commerce store. I have a podcast. I have all these things that create digital content that gets downloaded instantaneously by, you know, whatever hundreds of thousands of people all around the world. You know, they put little mini speakers in their ears called AirPods that are like, you know, tiny little invisible headphones where they can talk or listen. You know, there's all kinds of crazy things that are already happening. So to me, what is the metaverse? The metaverse is basically just a collection of things that run on the internet and the new layer that's getting added

to the game, right? The game already existed. We already, you know, had the information there, right? That was like web 1.0, Google, the Google era, putting information on the web. Then there's the Facebook, Twitter era, which was communication. So it went from information to communication. Now we're all talking to each other. We're sharing, we're emailing, we're posting on social media. And now what's the third, what's the third wave? The third wave to me was transaction. That was e-commerce. Well, even before value, I think there was one layer, which was Shopify, Uber, Airbnb. I'm paying other strangers on the internet for stuff that I'm getting either digital or physical stuff that

gets delivered to my door. And now it's value. This is the last layer, right? So I think what is happening here? Well, I own digital assets. You own digital assets. I can transfer them to you. This is the last layer, right? So I think what is happening here? Well, I own digital assets. You own digital assets. I can transfer them to you. You can transfer them to me. I can sell them on an open marketplace. I can make a living either creating digital assets, buying them or selling them. And so, yeah, I think that that's, I think we're already here. It's just, this is the next layer on the cake where that's getting more seamless and it's getting more robust. And it's like things before that had fake value, like social networks, we all go and do all this work in order to collect hearts and

likes and retweets. Well, now we're going to collect value. We're actually going to collect currency for doing those things. Gaming, same way. We used to go to collect virtual points and levels and in-game items. And now we're going to have value where those characters and those items we have actually are assets that you own. And Twitter just finally added a Bitcoin tip jar, right? They added it. Yeah. And I don't know if you saw, they had this NFT thing.

Did you see the sneak preview? Yeah, NFT authentication so that people actually know it's your JPEG and not just a right-click save. Yeah, because that's the big thing that's lacking today in the NFT world. How the hell do I brag about this, right? Like what's the point of buying a Rolex or a piece of art that nobody can see. And so to me, it's amazing. Anybody's doing this when there's no, there's

when there's no way to display this stuff. And I think that the hack, the workaround was people putting it as their profile picture. And so that was the hack to display, right? Because that's really valuable real estate. That's your, that real estate. That's your badge you carry around the internet is your profile picture. And so I think that was the hack. But people have these galleries, like these digital galleries, but the problem is no one's going to go browse them, right? They need to be built in front and center. It needs to be like a Rolex where I carry it around with me. I don't have to convince you to come check out my Rolex collection. You just notice that I'm wearing a Rolex while you meet me. And that's what needs to happen for these assets to really gain value is I need to be able to display them naturally and effortlessly. And as a by-product of us interacting, like when you click on my profile, you got to see the stuff I own and that's my flex. It's all about flexing. I was just going to say, it's all about flexing and clout. But what I found more interesting, everyone's talking about, obviously, the verified avatar that can prove that it's yours. But the collection tab is actually

more interesting to me because there's so many projects that have been trying to build what you just described, which is an art gallery where you go off into the platform and you can have this experience viewing everyone's collections. But now you have the museum right on everyone's Twitter account, right? They literally just click right over to collection. There's all their NFTs. That's going to sort of make a lot of those ideas moot. Right, exactly. You know, I can go to a museum once a year. You can come see my wine cellar once a year, but you can always see the car I drive, the watch I wear, the shoes I wear, the bag I hold, you know, like, and that's where these things become a lot more valuable and a lot more prevalent when the status symbol actually matters.

And people, by the way, there's this tendency by smart people to roll their eyes about flexing and clout and social status. And I get it because I used to kind of think that way too, right? It seems like a shallow, stupid thing to optimize for, or that who cares about that. But everybody does, right? Everybody is to their own extent, right? Whether you, you know, if you're getting your hair cut, if you are, you know, if you're choosing a certain brand of shirt or shoes or whatever, you know, what car you drive, what app you use, what phone you hold, these are all status symbols in a way. And status actually provides a very valuable service into society. And the reason I learned this was sort of this idea of gossip. So gossip is one of these ideas that people also saw as like this negative thing, right? If I said this person

gossips a lot, or they're gossiping right now, it's sort of seen as like a kind of like a low level, low value behavior. And so, but gossip actually served a really valuable function. That's why it survived in evolutionary terms. Why is that? Well, gossip basically is a way of transferring reputation. It might be kind of like a lossy way. It might be like an sort of error prone way, but it's better than nothing, right? Because if my alternative was there's a hundred thousand people in my world,

there's 150 people in my world, whatever the number is, it is too hard for me to firsthand go gather information to assess this person's talent. Are they high integrity or do they lie? For me to go and come up with my own opinion on every single person would be exhausting. And then I have to remember all of that. That's also exhausting. And so what is gossip? Gossip is my way of getting information about you without having to go gather it firsthand. It's my way. It's a way of spreading information very quickly without us all having to go do the work. So gossip actually, although it is seen as a negative thing, and although if done in excess, it's going to be quite toxic for your mental state, it is actually a valuable part of society and a valuable part of any community. And it goes both ways. It could be gossip that this person is

amazingly talented, that they're very honest, that they're very hardworking. Positive gossip. Yeah. If it's true and positive, it's certainly good. Yeah, exactly. And so it's a way of transferring reputation. And so similarly, status and status symbols and flexing is not just this like shallow, stupid behavior that only fools will do. Yes. When done in excess, when you make your life about status, yes, then you've gone into the toxic realm, but status is actually really useful, right? It's a way for me to know, should I go talk to the person and shake their hand or should I stay away?

Because they might be dangerous. They might be an unsavory person. And so social status is a hack. It is a shortcut for us to understand quickly, why does the verified check mark matter? I just got verified. It matters for my ego. Yes, it felt good to get verified.

Yes, it felt good in the moment. But it also serves a function for anybody who sees my tweets to know, well, this might be a credible person, or maybe I should follow this person. They might have something valuable to share. Maybe they've done something or they've earned this valuable social badge that tells me that this person is legit. And so it is a shortcut so that everybody doesn't have to do all the firsthand investigative journalism about each person. And so I think that status shouldn't be written off as something that doesn't matter or has no value. It's evolutionary, right?

I mean, apes beat their chest, peacocks spread their wings, human beings are animals and everybody has a way to show off to either attract a mate or to get ahead, right? Exactly. It's really no different when you think about it in those terms so the first epiphany that you had when you did your deep dive was i need a lot more eath right yes um and we all know that eath is clunky and it has its problems but i tend to agree with you i'm a huge eath bull and have been for a long time but as i understand it your first love or first entry into the crypto space like most people was bitcoin can you talk about that uh yeah what part interests you you know how i got into the part where you? How I got into it? The part where you, well, first, how you, I guess, heard about it, engaged with it in the first

place. But second, when you famously, and I believe December of 2020, said, I'm putting 20, 25% of my net worth on this thing. Yeah. Okay. We'll start there. So I had had small positions for a while that I had appreciated a lot, but just just the way my life played out, when I sold my company, I had a lot more wealth than before that. So even if proportionately, before I thought I had a good holding, now all of a sudden it was a very small fraction of my total net worth. So I said, okay, what am I going to do with this? I sold my company in 2019. And by December, I think it was November maybe ish, 2020, I decided that I could live with the downside of owning this volatile thing that could go down, but I couldn't live with the regret of not investing in something I believed in this much. Like my conviction had only been growing for like five straight years. And so it's like,

okay, from 2015 to 2020, I had just become increasingly bullish on this thing. And what started off as like a little bit of play money with this mentality, I had this mentality before when Bitcoin was like $400. And I just, I used to tell everybody back when I had no Twitter followers, my friends, 10K or bust. And they all thought I was crazy. I was like, I'm holding this till 10,000 or I'll let it go to zero. And then it hit 10,000. And I, I was like, okay, am I going to sell it off here? Well, no, I've only become more bullish in this thing. Right. There was only one moment somewhere

along the way, I think at 3000, where I got spooked because my aunt who was like, you know, imagine just like an old Indian auntie who doesn't know the first thing about technology was at a wedding telling other people how they should buy Ethereum in a bad Indian accent. Oh my God. And I was like, okay, if my aunt even knows what Ethereum is, let alone is saying it's good and her reason why it's good is because numbers go up, top. And so I called top and then I sold some at 3,000

and then it ran up to 18,000. And I was like, well, I guess that wasn't the top after all. And then it did blow off and it came back down. But that was the only time I sold some at 3,000 and then it ran up to 18,000. And I was like, well, I guess that wasn't the top after all. And then it did blow off and it came back down. But that was the only time I sold along the way. And I guess, so anyways, I had a lot of conviction that a couple of things. One was anything I learned in the tech world had told me that networks are valuable. Networks are valuable. Like all the investors basically made a ton of money.

It made it usually investing in networks and networks like Facebook, Twitter. Uber is a network of drivers. Networks like it could be Twitch or YouTube where it's a social network that's based around media. It's a media network of content and then viewers. And so I learned that networks are valuable. And what I saw was that even as the price was going up and down, the adoption of the network has just been on this steady rise. And the Ethereum network was bootstrapping even faster. The network was growing even faster in terms of number of users, number of active participants. And so I thought, if any startup

had come and showed me this chart and had the TAM, the total market size of gold or of compute, like Bitcoin and Ethereum, I would put all my money into it. I would take a pretty massive risk. And so I tweeted out, I'm going to put 20, 25% of my net, I think I said, I don't know what I said, maybe 25% of my net worth into Bitcoin. And I tweeted that out. And I only got 20% of it in and the price was going up like, you know, by the next week, the price had already gone up. So I was hitting limits and Coinbase and stuff trying to get money in. And by the time I got 20% in, it was already 30% of my net worth. And it's only gone up from there. So now I'm, you know, over 50% allocated into various cryptocurrencies. And again, like, you know, it's quite a risk, but I'm willing to

be wrong. It's something that I have high conviction in and I'm not willing to be right, but not have my skin in the game. And that's kind of the calculus I did. I love that. I've had a very similar experience. And in the 2017, 18, 19, I would rebalance, right? Because I've been around a long time. I believe in the stock market and having a diverse portfolio. On the last run, I had a similar experience. It just kept going up. The percentage kept growing and I just never rebalanced. Right. Yeah. Now you take a sort of diversificationist for losers approach, which is, you know, if you're trying to aggressively, you know, build, build wealth, you don't, you want to have a few concentrated positions, at least, at least that's

my, my, my point of view for myself. It's my advice to myself. And, and so, you know, I have, you know, a fund that invests in startups, great, that exists, I have stocks, you know, and then I have crypto. And, And I think that the way I've split it now, I think is right for my level of risk tolerance. Right. Well, I love to say, don't put all your eggs in one basket. But I think Buffett said, or one of them said, put all your eggs in one basket and watch it very closely, right? Exactly. And when I had Mark Yusko, another kind of famous hedge fund investor on the show, he said, listen, you get rich from concentration. Diversification is for rich people who want to protect the money that they already

made by being concentrated. Exactly, exactly. And so, you know, and it also depends how much money you're earning and what faith you have and your ability to earn more and withstand swings. So can I survive a winter swing where this goes down 80%? Yeah, like I'm just going to hang on, hang on tight. You know, like I don't need that money, so I won't have to liquidate my position. Great. So that lets me play a long-term game. And if I said, okay, cool, over.

If I wasn't allowed to look at the scoreboard, you know, until 2030, would I feel comfortable with this position? Yeah, I'd actually probably do better if I can only look at the scoreboard in the year 2030. Well, it's funny. I always joke that it's like, if someone could look at a chart of the value of their house, they would going insane looking at what it was worth every single day and not just thinking about what it's going to be worth when it's time to sell it. Yeah. That's actually funny. You should, you should do that. You should put out a chart of a home, the median home, you know, the median home in San Francisco or whatever, and be like, what kind of volatile asset is this? Right? This thing swung, you know, like crazy. And oh, people put 80% of their net worth into their home. And it provides absolutely. And then the stress of seeing your home go down 20% when that number is literally irrelevant at that moment, because you had no

intention of selling in the first place. Exactly. So I know that you pride yourself, I've read on the ability to go from zero to one. I love that concept. I would love for you to share exactly what that means to you. Yeah. So basically, I think it's good to know yourself. And this is sort of like generic. Here's the generic career advice section. But there are a lot of people that I've met, and you meet them mostly in big companies, which are good at doing the one to end phase. So zero to one is when you take something that's nothing and you make it something. The end is when you take something and you refine that something and you make it, you know,

whatever, you know, something polished and you make it something that scales well, you know, make it something efficient. And so you got to, you know, in the business world, this is startups go from zero to one, you take an idea and you turn it into something. And you know, if it's something, if it's actually, you know, generating revenues and profits, and it's sustainable, and it's going to like continue to live on customers, it's growing and that sort of thing. And then as you know, a company matures, it needs people that are the people who are good at taking things from one to end. And so the other analogy that is, you know, there are pioneers, the pioneers like to go find new land, that they're settlers, the settlers are good at taking that new land and saying, let's set up camp and let can run multiple divisions in a company. They can think many years ahead. They can operate at a pace that says, if 20%

in a year is good growth, whereas a pioneer says 20% of the year, that's death. So you want to know which one are you? And so I've learned over time, I'm a better pioneer than I am a settler or a town planner. And I'm better at going from zero to one. I'm good at that initial phase. So why am I good? I'm good at it because I got reps at it. I got reps at it because I like to do it. And so how did that happen? Well, I ran an idea lab for six years. An idea lab was basically this guy who's a billionaire was funding this thing and said, you guys have a blank check to launch new companies. You have 20 engineers in house. You don't need any resources besides what's in this building. Here's the money and here's

the engineering talent. Here's the designers go build things. And so we would just dream of an idea and we would build it. We would launch it. We would see if it works. If it didn't, if it didn't work, we'd kill it. If it worked, we kept going with it. And so that that's how I got good doing that for six straight years with four products at any given time was a way to get 20 years of experience, you know, in a handful of years. And so I got good at launching things from zero to one. I also got good at learning things from zero to one. So in this crypto week, for example, I knew how to structure it. I knew how to, I knew how much time to spend reading shit versus doing shit. I knew how to like set goals of like what a day's goal would be and what the week's goals would be. And so I knew how to like organize something like that. So I can go

zero to one on, let's say DeFi, where I'd only kind of just known about it, but never really gone in and staked anything or gotten earned yield or landed or borrowed or taken out a self-paying loan or whatever. I had never done any of those things, but I knew how to go from zero to one in any topic quite quickly. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So I think we can all agree that crypto's gotten past one, right, as an ecosystem. So let's put it on a scale. One being, I don't know, The Legend of Bagger Vance, one of the worst movies of all time, and N being Gladiator or Braveheart, you know, some of the greatest movies of all time, where would you put crypto on that scale? Yeah, I think it's like a three, you know, I think, uh, um,

the way I was thinking about this is like the, the end goal with like when bit, when the snows, you released the white paper, right? The white paper said this is a peer to peer payment system. And now there's two ways you can interpret that. One is what he invented is awesome, but it didn't achieve that vision, right? Like most of us, Bitcoin bulls are not using Bitcoin for payments. This is not the actual use case. The other, you know, the critics would say this is supposed to be a payment system. It is horrible as a payment system. It is slow. It is

expensive. It is volatile. The prices are not denominated in BTC. Look, the believers are just holding on. They're not trying to use it as payments. So the critics would What is the all going according to plan? Well, let's break it up into phases. So Bitcoin is what I would call an inevitability of the world. My hold co is called inevitable outcomes because I try to invest in and I try to think about what are the inevitable outcomes. So here's like an example, self-driving cars. We will inevitably have self-driving cars. And when we do it, it's going to be a hundred times better than the current car experience. It's part of why it's inevitable because the prize is very valuable and it's just going to matter of time until the technology gets worked out. And so, you know, once you can get into a car, go to sleep or eat food or watch a movie, get to your destination with, you know, 99.99999999% safety, you'll never go back to holding the wheel, staring at the road,

you know, sitting inching through traffic and hoping you're not one of the 4 million people a year that are injured in car crash, you know, in the US. And so, so once you get there, it's inevitable and you'll never want to go back. It passes the reverse test. Would I ever go back to that? No. So similarly for, for something like Bitcoin, you know, just take like international remittance. If I want to go and send money to El Salvador today, I can go on Western, I can go to Western Union. You know, I'll go, go to a branch, most likely that's how I worked. You know, now they have an app, but that's how it worked for a long time.

You go to a branch, you take your cash, you hand it over. Then you hand the guy $25 of extra cash, just for the fee of doing this, you know? So I'm handing them, you know, somewhere between 12 and 30% of my transaction fee, of my transaction is just fees. So I lose that money I'm sending back home to El Salvador, let's say.

And then on the other side, my family member there would have to go to a branch, get the money, walk out, hope they're not getting robbed right outside the branch, because that's what happens. A bunch of mobsters basically hang out outside of Western unions, and they take your money and then you go on your way. And so the inevitable outcome is I open up my phone. I instantaneously, I don't have to wait three to five days. I send you money with no fee or like sort of an absolute micro fee. And you get it on your phone in your home country safely, right? So that's the inevitable outcome that's going to happen. And so the question is, why are we not there yet? Well, there's a whole bunch of infrastructure and

also belief that has to get built up over time in order for that to exist. So most inevitable outcomes, you can imagine them, but they have to solve the chicken and egg problem. What's the chicken and egg problem, right? For Uber, Uber was a much better experience than taxis. But at first you needed a bunch of drivers with the Uber app installed, driving around ready to pick you up.

And why would they do that if there weren't riders constantly requesting rides where they're able to earn money? So how does Uber solve the chicken and egg problem? Well, what Uber did was they raised a bunch of venture capital. They started within a city and they would basically subsidize this adoption. They would spend a bunch of money on drivers, a bunch of money on riders, and they would make the rides really cheap, cheaper than taxis. And they would make the drivers earn more than they did taxis. And they used venture capital money to bootstrap the network to solve the chicken and egg problem. So how did Bitcoin do it? When there's no company, there's no CEO, there's no marketing department, there's no ad spend. So how the heck is Bitcoin going to solve the chicken and egg problem of this isn't money until

everybody thinks it's money, right? I'm not going to use this as money until everybody's using this as money. Well, it's had different use cases over time. So in the 2010s, it was like, basically just like cryptographic nerds in the cryptography forums and anarchists who were like, F the government. They were buying this thing, you know, for the, you know, the cryptography guys bought it because it's a tech gadget basically. So then they could just mine it or buy it for dirt cheap. It's like a little tech toy for them in their garage. And then the anarchists bought it as a middle finger to the financial system. They hated fiat currency before, while most people thought fiat was a car.

And so that was like phase one. Then comes phase two, right? Phase two is the Silk Road era, which was, oh, we're going to buy this, not to use it for payments peer-to-peer, but we're going to use this to buy illicit goods. So, okay, cool. That was a functional utility. And, you know, I tipped my hat to the noble service of the Silk Road and what they did to further Bitcoin adoption and got it to the next bridge was tech investors, basically, who identified this and said, this is a good investment. 2014, 2015, you saw Andreessen, you saw Chamath, you saw a bunch of other people saying, this is amazing. I think at one point, Chamath and his funds owned 5% of all the Bitcoin. Draper was in there. A bunch of the tech VCs started putting in millions of dollars buying this thing as a long-term tech investment. Then came the next era, 2017, which was financial speculators. So now you get the finance bros coming in and they're buying it as a short-term flip. So none of the people so far have been trying to use it as peer-to-peer payments, replacing it as money, but they've all found a different use case for why this is valuable. Whether I'm just giving a middle finger to the system, I'm buying it as a tech gadget, I'm buying it for drugs, I'm buying it as a long-term tech hold, or I'm doing it as a short-term flip. So far, this speculation and

investment phase is causing the network to get bootstrapped where every year, more and more wallets get created. More and more people start to believe that this stuff, this digital thing that was made out of thin air has value. It's just as valuable as these paper dollars or this gold. And so now you're kind of in the next phase where, like we talked about games, art, these are bringing in more people, more users onto the network. And again, we're not using it as the way we transfer money between each other. We're using it to buy these digital assets. Okay, great. And so this is just going to continue, continue on until enough people have the thing and enough people believe, you know, when a few hundred million people have the thing right now is maybe in the tens of millions, 10 to 20 million, I would

say when a hundred to 200 million people have it. And those hundreds of 200 million people believe that this is valuable. Now we don't need to transfer Bitcoin and ETH and convert it into dollars. We'll just leave it as Bitcoin or ETH and then we'll just keep transferring it as a medium of exchange amongst ourselves. And once we do that, it will have gone from store of value to medium of exchange. And then finally, it'll become a unit of account where you'll just read the price as this much ETH or this much Bitcoin and the volatility will have gone way down, the returns will have gone way down. And now it'll be a useful utility for a medium of exchange. Listen, something's only true

if enough people believe it, right? I mean, almost everything in our world is a shared belief system that gives it any credence or credibility. Yeah, and I heard this early on and it's only felt more true over time, which is money is the bubble that never pops. And so yes, it's sort of

like your mind has to hold two thoughts in at the same time. Wow, this Bitcoin thing is only only has value. If everybody convinces each other that this thing has value, that sounds like vapor, that sounds not so strong. And then you realize all money's that way. But then the second thing is that, well, the more people who do that, there is no needle to pop this bubble, right? Because there's no cash flows. There's no waiting for the shoe to drop. You know, there's nothing that will – the more people who believe it, the more it actually comes true. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And so this is one of these amazing things where the more people who believe it, the more it becomes true, the more valuable it becomes. And the early believers, the earlier you are, the more highly rewarded you are for spreading the gospel about this thing. And so it has the best elements of religion. It has the best elements of incentives and has the best elements of technology all wrapped up into one. And so that's why it's the brain virus that's taken over mine and yours and many other people's brains. Sure.

Moral of the story, everyone is, you're still early enough and just buy some and wait. That's all I got for you guys. So Sean, where can everybody follow you? Keep up with everything you're doing after this conversation. Yeah.

Follow me on Twitter, Sean VP. So S-H-A-A-N. It's a weird way to spell Sean. S-H-A-A-N VP. That's my Twitter. And then just SeanPourri.com if you want-N-V-P, that's my Twitter. And then just seanpuri.com if you want to get the newsletter where I talk about stuff like this.

I go on little rants like this from time to time there. So if you like this, check those out. And if you listen to this as a podcast, you probably will like our podcast too. It's called My First Million. It's basically a brainstorm between me and my buddy who both built and sold companies about, hey, if we had more time,

these are ideas we would do because we think that they could work. So we basically investigated a bunch of ideas. We, we researched them, we diligence them. And then we we just give them away for free because we don't have the time to go do all, you know, I can't do too many businesses at once. I already got four. So, so, you know, the fifth one goes out free on the podcast. So everyone go listen, steal his ideas and build something out of it, please. Right? Yes, exactly. We've had, I think now at least five people who are self-made millionaires, stories that they've told us from taking an idea from the pod and doing it. And that's in 18 months or so. So that's kind of amazing. Five is not a big number, but that's kind of crazy at the same time. Absolutely amazing. Well, thank you for taking the time.

I appreciate your perspective and I hope others are encouraged to go do their one or two week deep dive into the crypto space. Yeah. And if you want to know how to do it, I'm going to put it out on my newsletter exactly how it's structured the week. So go to SeanPourri.com and I'll keep that in there as like one of the kind of like the first emails you get as here's how I did my crypto week if you want to go do it too. Amazing. Everybody check that out. Thank you, Sean. All right. Take care.