The Wolf Of All Streets - "I Sold Everything For Bitcoin” — What They Don’t Want You To Know | Gary Cardone

Episode Date: October 26, 2025

Serial entrepreneur and investor Gary Cardone joins to explain why he believes Bitcoin is the best business on Earth. After decades building and scaling companies, Gary now views Bitcoin as a frictionless enterprise — one with no employees, no overhead, and no human error. He breaks down why traditional businesses are collapsing under inflation, insurance, and regulation, how institutional adoption is accelerating, and why Bitcoin may be the safest, most efficient way to build and preserve wealth in the modern era.

I was saying to you before we were recording that the United States government somehow added $127,000 to their strategic, $127,000 Bitcoin reserve because of a scam like that, which just blows my mind. Better us than someone else. Yeah, I don't understand how a Chinese, like, national scamming people from Cambodia is our money, but I guess it's good to be America. We're here. It's good to be American. I think so. I think so. So, listen, I...

There's a lot of issues, but I think it's the best option right now. Yeah. We could go to France. You could. You could. You would fit in perfectly. You would do awesome. I would do great there.

You need tighter pants, but otherwise I think I'd be fine. So when I just want to bounce shit around, I call you, and this time we can actually do it in person, which is fun. Yeah, so much better than Zoom. Yeah, so much better than you. And, dude, your new digs are awesome. Thank you. Really?

What do you think of the market here? Let's just start there. I want to talk about treasury companies. I want to talk about the market, talk about micro strategy. all the things we talk about on spaces and kick around, like, behind closed doors. Like, as we're recording, it's Friday, 110-ish, I think. I haven't really looked in a few hours. Obviously, had that massive liquidation event a couple weeks ago, but stocks are gaping up.

Gold's still after one retrace is pretty good. I mean, it's in everything, we'll market. Yeah, Silver Strong. The market wants hard assets, man. I mean, for sure, it's, you'd have to be blind not to see it. And I think Bitcoin's just following it. Do you think that people view it as that yet? No, I don't think they understand that narrative.

But the retail player isn't really driving any of this anyway. It's institutional players, huge families, sovereigns. Where are they going to take? Look, all that money needs a yield. And it's sitting in assets that aren't generating anything. Or they're in businesses that look like they're dying. Like, you know, do you really want a bunch of access to retail? When you know retail is changing, do you want access to the pharmaceutical industry,

when you know there's all the DOJ exposures and problems, and, you know, it just seems to me people are looking for safe places to hold their wealth and hopefully get some appreciation. That's interesting. When you say people are looking for safe places to hold their wealth, you don't usually think of Bitcoin as far as the narrative. Funding you that, huh? right? So that's the opposite of the speculative excess you usually see at market tops. So

if you think people are looking for safe places to put their money, that doesn't feel like we're anywhere near a top. When people start yolo gambling on NFTs and meme coins is usually kind of a top single. Although I guess gold was being treated that way around the world of late. But, you know, I think there's a lot of markets that if you look at them, all that behavior is going on. The immature behavior, I mean, not driving over here with 28. minute drive and I'm listening to some people that are heavy, heavy, heavy into crypto. And they're all talking about the losses and how they've suffered. And I'm sitting here going, I've been in this space five years. I have been able to multiply my wealth. Basically look at

Bitcoin as a business. Don't look at it as a savings plan. My option is I can go invest a million or $2 million or $100,000 into a new business with an idea and then run that business and hire a bunch of people and if I'm successful, I'm going to have a thousand headaches and I'll exit in 10 years. If I'm lucky. And then I look at Bitcoin and I go,

hmm, I can buy Bitcoin at $27,000, $37,000, $110,000 wouldn't buy me a tenth of a Popeye's fried chicken franchise Yet I can buy a whole Bitcoin, have no requirements for insurance, which is escalating. Like, I just cancel my insurance on my house. I'm like, I'm not paying you $100,000 a year for a $6 million deductible. Come on, that's ridiculous.

Okay, I might as well just waive the insurance and take my risk. So I think there's a lot of industries that are getting so pricey that it's a part of the market that's just going to break. that people are going to stop consuming so much stuff I think we have met max consumption on this planet at the super wealthy and the very poor that is the thing that we all share in common the super poor and the super rich we have maxed out consumption isn't there always another yacht

no they're out no they're like go talk to and the moment we see more jet you know, second-term jets available for sale, new jets available for jet fuel prices, and the charters available, this is a huge indicator. I look at three things. How many brokers are calling me to sell me a plane?

Talk to cab drivers. Hey, are you getting tips in Vegas and go to a casino? And that's the best indicator of any economy in the world. This economy is weird, man, right now. It's broken. It's broken at the pour in, and I think it's broken at the high end

because I don't think the high end can buy any more Rolex watches, villas, countries, yachts. These all come with headaches and they all come with people to manage. I have big, back to Bitcoin as a business, not just an investment vehicle, I look at and go, well, I get a 30% let's cut that in half.

I get a 15% Caggar a year. I have no HR department. I have no legal document. I have no K-1s. I have no people whatsoever. I have zero human error risk for the first time in my life and a great idea.

And all I have to do is execute. I am the risk. I just have to execute. Keep adding to a four-year stack and no human being on the planet has ever bought the top of Bitcoin, held it for four years, and lost any money whatsoever.

That is a great trade. That is a great business. It'll cost you $2 million to buy a pie pie chicken franchise. How much they are now? One to two million, but then you have to run it. And you have to deal with the snotty nose, greasy, dirty kids that are coming in your store. You've got to deal with the consumers who are only going to bitch.

You've got to handle all the glass when it gets broken through the junior high school football game that they had a fight at the Popeyes. And over and over and over. And you've got to pay Popeyes the juice whether you made any margin or not. And you're in the deal for 10 or 15 years. I know a guy that owns 42 subways got crushed. Just absolutely got crushed. 42 subways could not make a dollar.

I think a lot of those businesses are going to no longer exist in the future. We're moving to a high-speed planet. And you can't, here's two kilos of silver, man. Let's do a transaction. That's not the world we're going to. We're going to super speed. You know, I came out here, drove 28 minutes. We could have done this digitally.

Of course. Right? Now, we wanted to see each other, have a coffee, whatever, but we have options today. We did not have 10 years ago. I mean, tremendously different options. Like, I'm reading three books a day, three books a week. I've never read three books a week. If I had to do it with a physical book, I probably couldn't do the three books.

Are you two-xing it on audio? I mean, that's what I did. Just every, in every form. visual, audio, YouTube, listening to you. People can poo-poo all they want on this, the space. There is tremendous amount of intelligence in there. If you can scatter through all the bullshit, you know, and the pumps and the, you know, the motivations that may have some kind of nefarious or motivation.

But that's true about every meeting I've ever had. That's the first time I've heard you talk about Bitcoin as a business. I don't think I've ever talked about. that comparison? Well, this is all I've ever done is build businesses by myself, fund the whole thing, and then I'm looking around going, wow, I'm risking my thing to John, and John got a better job. Now, I don't have John's my business development guy, or my partner decides, I can sell the business for half a billion dollars, and she decides, well, I don't want to sell. What? We just made half a billion dollars, dude. Yeah, but I don't want to get out yet. I'm not done.

Well, then buy mine for $2.50. No, I don't want to do that. Well, I have a liquidity problem now. See, no entrepreneurs ever talk about the failures they had in building businesses and exiting. No one ever talks about the exit. Okay? And you get chewed up in the exit. That's the truth. And that's true of exiting a Bitcoin or a Solano or any.

No one ever talks about investing in crypto and then exiting. You can make a whole weekly show I do. Yeah. Okay. Selling is a lot harder than buying. It is planning an exit. Oh, selling and getting out and walking out the door. of anything, is much, much, much more difficult than getting in.

With the Bitcoin as a business analogy, it kind of alluded to, though, there has to be, if you're going to treat it as a business, there's got to be some profit. Does it? Does it? Does it? You got to sell it? Or is it? Amazon's one of the greatest companies in the world and didn't have profit. What I mean for you individually? Like, if you say, hey, my business is buying Bitcoin, still got to live a life. Dude, that's a great. That is a great, great conversation. Show me a business that you build that tomorrow generates. positive income. I've never built one of those. Now, if I'm speculating, okay, let me pick

heads or tails. Oh, wow, profit. I may, is that sustainable business? I have to build a business usually, you know, in order for me to get over here, I had to put fuel in my car first, and then I came over here. So I've made an investment of $20. I'm not going to get my return on investment, Scott. I need $22. That's a horrible way to look at things, right? Right. My business is my brand. Me, Gary Cardone. Right. So it makes a lot of sense for me to spend $22, develop a relationship with you, hopefully increase my brand a little bit, learn something. These are all investments for the business. Right. And so for me to invest $100,000 into Bitcoin and say, okay, I'm just going to do nothing. I'm going to do this. You're going to say, yeah, but you need some income. No, I don't need any income. I don't want any income. I don't get income from my businesses. that I build? Immediately, positive income. I usually have to keep writing checks. With Bitcoin, all I have to do is sit on my hands. Okay, I don't want the income because you know what I'm going to do with the income? I'm going to spend it. And spending it isn't going to help me get more

Bitcoin. So that's why I think I love the non-yielding Bitcoin play, because I'm only interested in this. It will take me eight to 12 years to build a business and exit. Four years, I can exit Bitcoin and make a 45% return. I cannot do with zero headaches, by the way. I get to decide to run this business from Asia or the Bahamas or Tiravirdi, Florida. I get to come over and see you anytime I want. Somebody wants to take me bird shitting. I get to go do that too. And like I just don't know a better business. Like I'm looking for a great business. I'm not looking for an ego trophy. Or look, I managed 12,000 people. Once you get past 150 people, you can't manage them anyway. And if you're like you and me, once you get past 15, you can't manage it. One point five. That's about me. Yeah. So that

that's, and if you really think about it, logically, it does make sense to just look at it as business because no business pays income. Most entrepreneurs, when they, how much do you get paid in your salary? Nothing, dude. You get nothing. Most founders get zero. Like, I have never made a salary, ever. Like, I made a salary at the fraud company for a little while. I'm like, I don't want a salary, did. If we make positive income, the company's paying for all my private jet travel.

When we make positive income, company pays for all my private jet travel. I like that because it's great for the company. They get to net it off their profits. I get to fly private when I'm big enough to float the company, when it gets revenue positive. But it's an awful. fucking a lot of work. When I could buy a Bitcoin over the last four years for probably average if I just did it monthly, 57? 50. I'm up 100%. And now I can borrow against it. That was my next question. Boom. I get a big enough stack. I can now go to the, you know, people and go,

hey, look at my stack. I've taken my stack to my bank who does not do anything in Bitcoin. It fucking impressed the shit out of them. They love me now. And go to JP Morgan now. As of today, made the announcement, it's not available by the end of the year, you'll be able to use Bitcoin Ethereum as collateral. How nuts is that? Not that it's happening, but J.B. Morgan. Jamie Diamond even, I think, made a comment this morning. I didn't see the exact quote. I just heard people talking about it. You know, I'm still cool on the industry, but he's a businessman and knows what the people want. But I would say that Jamie Diamond is one of our most outspoken critics. J.P. Morgan's doing it. Ken Griffin from Citadel. I mean, to say,

saying that this is Bitcoin for the debasement trade, Vanguard now potentially, Vanguard potentially coming. So if you've got Citibank is going to be cussing the assets, Bank of New York, Mellon, State Street. So they should be treating it like any other asset in someone's portfolio, right? So we shouldn't be paying the 9, 10, 11, 12 percent interest rates on Bitcoin borrowing in a year. It might be that now. But once everybody's there and it's a competitive market, again, even though it's volatile, A, it's less volatile than the street. they'll give you loans against at this point. Right.

Like meta stock who can have a 20% day. So what are we talking about here? People talk about Bitcoin volatility. I'm like, what are you talking about? Not anymore, right? I mean, the big- Look at United Healthcare. If the largest asset of the world, gold can drop 7, 8% in a day,

then what are we even talking about? But so you should have 5, 6, 7% rates, 4, 3 as rates come down in the future. Like, well, that, to me, then you're like Bitcoin's a business because I can pay my rent with... Yeah, well, this is what's happening, right? 18 months ago, you could not borrow against Bitcoin. Like, you could in the black market, but a year ago, a couple of guys came out and said, if we custody, I'm not going to name them because they pissed me out, but if we custody, you're a Bitcoin, well, I thought, look, you can't be a Bitcoiner and then tell me

you're going to charge me 15% to hold the best collateral on Planet Earth. It just irritated me. He's like, dude, come on, man. This is the best collateral on Planet Earth second to a Glock 17 when you need it. I mean, seriously. And it's right near you, right? And I'm like, there is no chance of me ever paying 15%.

And I won't pay 10. If I can get below 8, I will do it. And I'm below 8 from major, major institutions. I could get 5 from people that we know. It's just a big heavy lift for me to move it. But, you know, you start getting fairly large numbers. I mean, I've added 30% to my stack, dude. So you're using your loans to buy more Bitcoin.

worse. Oh, well, I'm not, I'm not flying to Las Vegas. You asked, hey, you want to go to Las Vegas, I don't think I really need to go to another trade show, too. Fly Spirit, man. Come on, we could have done it for 200 bucks. Vegas is cheap if you don't do it your way. Why don't you take John with you? I'll pay for John's ticket, and y'all can videotape the whole thing, and I'll watch. To say it's possible. You know, I didn't do all this work on Bitcoin to fly spirit. Yeah, it's funny that. Like, the Bitcoiners have a billion dollars and drive like an 85, you know, accord because they don't want to spend a penny of it. Well, I'm not driving an accord, but But if I think about this as a business, I mean, I've probably been invited to five things to

speak at in the last two months. No, no, no. Same. And it's not because I don't want to go. But if I'm looking at Bitcoin now, it's a core business of mine. Like I have, I can do this now for 15, 20 years. Because I don't have to grind myself into the ground going to meetings that are absolutely useless to all you guys that work at big companies.

Like, once you walk into a room with. more than six people, you're just talking about stuff that's general knowledge. And you leave your soul at the door because you die in it. And you don't say anything. You want to die. They're not, it dawned on me one day. I'm like, wow, all the important decisions get made between one or two people. And when you want to announce when the Christmas party is, you invite everybody. And it's a complete waste of time. So I look at this and go, well, do I want to spend 100 grand going to Vegas for three days? Or could I buy another business? Bitcoin. And people go, 100 grand to Vegas, well, it's just three days. I mean, just, look,

you can say it's not a hundred grand, but then I'll do three trips. And then sooner or later, these are expenses. I am paying to go to meetings, just like I drove over here to you. Okay, I need a return on investment at some point. And it's not going to give me a return. All people are going to do this. Hey, you want to invest in my fund now? Yeah, dude, if it can outdo Bitcoin like a mother, I'll help, I'll do your fund. But right now, I have the ability by 110,000, Bitcoin. Why would I do a fund with two and 20? And be locked up for years. The problem is to me, it's a lockup. It's not in the performance. Most people don't know the lockup's 10 plus on these trades, man. 10 plus. Grant's 10 plus 10 on the real estate, 10 plus 10 at his discretion. And I don't

know what the ego deaths and the, you know, all the funds are. And look, some of those funds are awesome. But if I don't have to get locked up, why would I? And if I don't have to get locked up, why would And if I don't have to pay two in 20, why would I? And if this is a better return, they're running a Popeye's franchise or a Dick sporting store. And most certainly, it's safer than me buying Intel. And by the way, if the market completely collapses, like the economy generally, even if Bitcoin goes down,

your Popeyes is totally fucked. Oh, my God. So at least you saw your Bitcoin and can wade it out, that Popeyes is done. You actually have less exposure to like downside in the economy. economy by holding Bitcoin that goes down than you do by having a business that depends on people having money in the economy. Correct, man. And if we're now going to use this double D word, like I've never heard this word before. Okay. Dollar debasement is being used now. It is becoming

nomenclature in the finance. This has not been done before. Recessions you could talk about. You never talked about dollar deflation. It was almost heresy. And this word is being used by the largest players on the planet. You just mentioned them. You should be listening to that. I mean, that is a serious message. In this case, Bitcoin's a monster play in dollar debase. That's the only asset. Gold and Bitcoin were everyone who named, like, they all say, hey, there's this debasement trade, but what should you actually do for it? Every other asset was shuffled around. Silver, some said, NASDAQ, Paul Tudor Jones said, which I thought was interesting. He's the only one who included stocks in the debasement trade, but it does make sense.

actually. But otherwise, everybody said Bitcoin and gold. I see, I wouldn't do it, but I see where he's coming from when he made the argument. His theory is if analog goes to shit. And if it's just that Richby is like this is, you know, if you're betting on a divide of the rich and the poor, the rich just find new shit to buy that's going to go up and be a hedge and maybe the NASDAQ is a part of that. I'd rather just buy Bitcoin, obviously. It's funny, you talk about Bitcoin as a business and all these businessmen like yourself, the few who get it really get it. And you see the light bulb come on with a lot of people. We were talking about Ricardo Salinas. I think you're going to El Salvador soon. This guy's a billionaire, like one of the richest men in Mexico and has

run all these businesses. And you talked about what happens when he talks about Bitcoin. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's fascinating. I can't remember it was you or someone else that was interviewing him. And the guy just, like I observe people pretty well. It's a gift of mine. And when I see a 70-year-old billionaire get extremely excited when he was talking about his business, right? And he's got all these businesses here. And then he's got this small little Bitcoin thing. And all his big businesses are awesome.

But when he started talking about his liquid position, the image I had was a 14-year-old, a 13-year-old little boy finding his first penthouse. First playboy, man, yeah. First playboy, dude. This guy was like, no, he was so excited. And I'm like, oh, that's a monster indicator. That's a man who's falling in love with an idea. And like when you're an entrepreneur and you see an idea and you fall in love with it, you surrender almost your entire life to it.

Really, it's almost like a marriage. And an entrepreneur will really understand that you surrender everything to a business and it's got all these operating risk in it. Surrendering to Bitcoin is so easy. It's just so easy. I mean, I would actually be lying to anyone if I didn't really express the value of looking at Bitcoin as a business. And everyone wants to own their own business. Everybody wants to be the CEO of their own business.

And it's easy. Do your day job. Start stacking Bitcoin. If it's good enough Michael Saylor, that's a business for him, dude. He's not having to add thousands of people to add Bitcoin. He will be one of the most profitable per employee in Bitcoin. businesses in the world. He could stack another 100,000 Bitcoin and add three staff members. Yep. I mean, that is a beautiful business model. Yeah, I talked to him this morning in prep for

the Vegas conversation, and his narrative right now is heavily on the digital credit side. All these layered products that he's been able to offer the offerings. You can get, you know, 16% effective yield here at 12, different risk, different volatility for every single person. I wonder how a J.P. Morgan announcement like today ends up affecting someone like a strategy. Like, he's created all these products, but now we're really talking about being able to put the Bitcoin directly to work or people being able to put their Bitcoin directly to work. Kind of a new era. This is why I think we're underpriced, because it's really, really, really what?

We have a broken vent and nobody can get into the vent to figure it out from the inside or the outside, so when the wind blows the wrong way, we get the drummer boy. So, of course, you hear that. That's great. Perfect timing. Didn't think about that. Back to Sailor. Yeah. You can keep that in. So, so it's been really hard to buy Bitcoin. It's still hard to buy Bitcoin. I mean, and it's hard to listen to some of the stuff about Bitcoin because it's so confusing. This is a part of Bitcoin that no one ever confronts is that decentralization, with decentralization comes a lot of issues that aren't good, by the way. They are not.

positive attributes to a market. I was with Mark Yusko one day in Miami. Three or four years ago, we were pounding on a bottle of tequila pretty well, having dinner. And he was like, decentralization, you know, blah, bra, and I said, because I know he's a good Catholic boy. And he'll get going. Huh? And he'll get going.

Oh, yeah. And I said, Mark, let's be honest. You and I are good Catholic boys. I don't know if that's true. and if we believe that our God at the very central of our church is honest and honorable and trustworthy, let's admit that centralization is perfect. Like we would not have an issue with that. And he's like, well, you're right about that.

It's the human nature of this that's the problem, okay, on the centralization. But the truth is, why did I come here? This is a central location. If we get bombed today, we're both going to die. Ooh, risky, risky. Right? Yeah, but it's more valuable. It's a very different connection I have with another human being than on Zoom.

So to me, the problem with Bitcoin, I was so excited about Wall Street coming in because, hey, we will get a common message. We're going to get little videos from J.P. Morgan with stick figures and show you how the... Background's already done it. Yeah. Exactly. Because you've never had a common message about Bitcoin. One's been anarchy, one's been freedom, one's been freedom, one's been perfect money. It is not perfect money. This comment about Bitcoin being perfect money in an imperfect world is just the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's hyperbolic. It's ridiculous. Because nobody wants to spend it. It puts people off too, these comments. So this product is getting ready to get sold. No one's going to even know they have Bitcoin. I've heard you say this so many do when you got Bitcoin, you didn't even know you got it. That's when that's exactly right.

You should not have to carry the Bitcoin logo all over the place. Who cares? If it's invading the entire financial organism at every level from every crack and crevice, who gives a toss what we call it? You just need to get impregnated in the system. I always found it so funny when people were so, like, emotionally angry at an Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or something like that. I would never invest in their company.

I would never, you know, buy meta. I would never buy Tesla, and then you say to that person, what's your 401k in? I don't know. SPY? Well, by the way, you own a shit ton of Tesla, a lot of meta. And by the way, micro strategies in their micro strategy and Coinbase are in the NASDAQ and the S&P. And if you're indexing, you own all that shit. And the flip side of that is the stupidity of people saying, Black Rock owns 15% of micro strategy

or things like that when you know that they're just passively indexing and they're not taking any active position. They own the miners. Of course they do because they own literally everything that they're putting into indexes. But everybody is going to own everything and everybody already probably has exposure to this and all the other things they hate. I don't know that everybody does. Oh, excuse me. The investing public, whoever that. Yeah, yeah. The 5% of people have enough money to buy something. Yeah. Whatever it is. Yeah, but we're still way, way, way under-adopted. Yeah. I mean, people, I think people overestimate our adoption. But personally, don't think we're over 2%. Not a chance. Two percent adoption as far as usage or just have any

exposure to any exposure in total dollar terms, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just not a big number yet. I mean, that's why it should be exciting because I look at and go, wow, we're early, man. You know, Google took 30 years to become a trillion dollar business, 27 years, I think. Google. Okay. And they're basically a country U.S. CIA operation. I mean, it took 30 years. Amazon lost money forever and had so many drawdowns. It was stupid. Ibit has 100 billion. It's 10th of the way there and a year and a half. Yeah. I mean, that's staggering. And people are like, hey, wow, why hasn't it moved the market? I think it has. We were in the 40s when it was approved, right? This market is a different market than was when I came in four years ago. But you were the person who beat the drum from the day I

met you that this was the inevitable conclusion of how it would go. You always said it would be Wall Street. The suits in the room. The major institutions are coming. And all the libertarians yelled at you and said, fuck the government and fuck the institution. They called me suit. I don't know why people would call me a suit just because I came from that world. I commend Bitcoin community for really understanding their product. But you did. Y'all need to go out and get the art of war because you do not study the competition at all. Or the marketplace. or the addressable market, or even the terminology. Like, Bitcoin is a settlement system.

Quit talking to Visa about a transaction system. You're not even in the same category. Visa MasterCard do not settle for 180 days. I can settle in 10 minutes. Which system do you want? I don't know if you saw this stat. I mean, it's not even close, man. 24-7.

I'm going to misquote the numbers, but actually, I think it was stable coins, did 46 trillion. transactions last year. Exceeded credit. Three times Visa and about half of ACH. I think ACH was 91, 92. Maybe it was 48 and 92, but stable coins are literally eating the world while nobody's looking. Correct. And that's where the credit card company's going to stick their nose hard in that space. They have to. They have to. They have to. Is there any thing as you sort of risk manage the idea of Bitcoin being a business or Bitcoin in general? Is there signal you could have where you would say, shit, I was wrong? Is there a price it can go to? Is there

a nation state level attack or something that could happen to it that would actually, like, shake your conviction? Because I know you're a guy who's willing to change his opinion. Yeah, look, I, you know, I've made enough mistakes that, you know, the more confident I am, the more I ask myself, hey, how could this be wrong? I remember meeting scaramucci five years ago maybe, and I asked him how much Bitcoin you had. I didn't know that was. a thing, you know, I still ask people, but actually ask them what their average price is. And he told me, he said, he told me how many he had. He said, hey, man, and he knew that I was seriously long, like, stupid. And he said, hey, do you think, this is when we were at 30

grand. Hey, man, do you think this is stupid, you know, being so consolidated. And I looked at it, and my answer was, look, I have a 15 and 18 year old kid. If I'm wrong, and if you're wrong, Anthony, cost space is much cheaper than mine. I figured that our children are going to grow up exactly the way you and I did. And if I'm right, my kids have a massive problem to deal with. They're going to be billionaires and like who is prepared to deal with that. Zero human beings are prepared to deal with that kind of world. So to me, he loved the answer, man. He thought that was an awesome answer. And I think it is a good answer. If a whole world goes to shit and it will one day because it's built on

matches and gasoline man and a small little fire extinguisher called the Fed who I think is totally out of control. Not even on, he's on the stage

but it's not even like you're a puppet and you're a paper. If China decides to do something different he's done, we have a timing ticking bomb just moving from country to country right now.

Like, who's going to blow up first? Is it Japan? Japan, like, has a problem. So what would, I don't think I get off this trade. And I've been here before. I've been, like, this is how I built my, I've retired when I was 40 years old making decisions like this. And this is one, I am so much more sure on this one than I was on the one when,

at 40. This one, no one can fuck with me. No one. Like, I used to go up against X, on mobile, Shell Conoco, man, and they hated my guts. I was trying to commoditize energy. What do we have today? Oh, we, the energy market is the best market in the world. The least manipulated, cannot interrupt the son of a, including blowing pipelines up. Shit just flows up. It figures out how to, huh? No one, exactly. Stick it on the water and they pay a dollar for

storage. So I don't, the other thing, Scott, that I did not understand, I was going to have a lot opportunity to invest, my trapped money in the legacy world into the crypto space. The miners. Wow. Like I've gotten access to the miners. It's given me just a monster upside that's going to convert more Bitcoin. Now this is a challenge. I have to know when to do that. I have a position in NACA. I'm not really happy about it, but I talk about it because I think that people should make people like me to get on TV screens like you and me and say, hey, dude, I don't always make right decisions. I mean, I lost half, I bought half a million shares

at 117, 120, and it's 72 cents. It's a fucking broken company. What else? Strategy, right? I've been in a strategy for two and a half years. I had no idea I was going to have access to do all of this. So it's, you know, my allocation to this industry is probably in the 89, 90% range.

But do you view it as you have to get those investments back to Bitcoin at some point, like you said, or do you view them as investments in Bitcoin? Or just high beta of Bitcoin investments? I think they're high beta. I hate to use these words because I don't think most of the audience. But look, these mining companies are extremely risky. The mining companies make Bitcoin look like a walk in the park. There's only been a few...

Are you still holding them all after this move? Oh, I'm still here. Me too. I'm just curious. Oh, yeah. Where'd you buy iron? Where'd you buy iron? Oh, remember?

Stupidly, jeet, man. Yeah, I think I was three bucks. I haven't, I'm not in it for four years, though. I bought it a year and a half. Yeah, same. Some of these guys are chirping on my show about it. Five years ago, it's like, bro. I mean, that's just too long for me to hold and get a 50X.

I mean, it's just like, it's a long time to hold those losses. There's a lot you could have done. Look, you could have done. could have invested in the miners five months ago and had almost as good of a return as you and I've had. Iron Wolf, Cypher, CleanSpark. I did 80,000 shares of Clean Spark. I thought Clean Spark would be the beast because of its cost. It's the worst performer. So you never know. But I will not stay in those miners forever. I'll be out of those miners. Sometime this cycle. Probably within the next six. I don't think there's a cycle. I think you guys made up a cycle.

In the next six months, I think I'll probably be out of that trade. I think they have a cycle. Who does? The miners. I'm not talking about the, right, I'm not talking about the, I also don't ascribe to the four-year cycle thing anymore. I did, but there's a cycle. But if Trump gets in the office again, it'll be an eight-year cycle.

Because it's really a president. 16 years, 20 years. Hey, I wonder what kind of odds I could get. On Trump being president again? Yeah. We'd go hit Polly Market. Hey, somebody tell me what kind of odds you'd get me. But I got a bet.

I got to bet that Donald Trump's. our president, 26 to 30, if he's alive. Well, they'll impeach him in a year when the Democrats take one of them, but he won't go out, but they'll do the symbolic impeachment thing. Yeah. You know, the reason I say that is because I don't know how we, this market is going to get obliterated if the Democrats come into office. It'll get obliterated.

No one wants that, even the Democrats, okay? This market will get obliterated. We're going through a really bizarre, I think, civilization moment, like globally. And America is not in a position where it can just look around and go, okay, I've been doing all this stuff this way. It's not working. But it also isn't on the world stage the way it used to be. It's not framed the same way. The world is not the same.

We're not going to be a globalized market. We're going to be a competitive polymarket. I love that. I think that's awesome. Go bricks. Go another currency market center. Go big. Market centers are good. Yes, exactly. Because we'll end up with gold, silver, and Bitcoin, and some type of reserve, some type of banking, some type of, hey, I can invest in real assets that don't get dissolved by political idiocy. Just dissolve like acid. Which is what the system is built to do. It's not like an accident. Exactly. Yeah.

It's not mismanagement. Yeah, but look, all you guys can complain about why it's there, all I got to do is, hey, how do I protect myself? Right. How do I get my family in a position where I'm elevated above all the problems? If I can get enough altitude and watch the war from down there, then I don't get hit, right? I'm just trying to take care of my family or my position relative to where I am. And people go, well, I'll never become rich. look, why are you thinking about becoming a billionaire when you've only made a million dollars this year?

Why don't you think about becoming a two-liner? Elevating yourself above where you are now, because you don't just elevate above all billionaires. You elevate gradually above, you know, the town you grew up in, and then, you know, you expand. Your world has expanded. You don't do that if you're just throwing craps up against the wall and crazy ideas. I just can't invest in some of these paper companies. They don't make sense to me. The old analog companies, like the Netflix is in the world.

I'm like, wow, how they look like broken businesses. You mentioned Nakamoto being a broken business. We got to talk about it because you and I both were buying at the same time. You know, it went from $20 something, $4 back to $8. They bought a major stake in Metaplanet. I think now they're trading probably at a discount to just the value of their Bitcoin, not even counting debt. I'm not sure.

But we've had a lot of conversations. conversations about it. We both said, listen, we're back to where the pipe investors got in, buck 12, buck 10. I can buy it at the same as the early investors. It's already gone down 90%, whatever it is. I had a feeling when you said that. I'm like, oh, I know. I wish you wouldn't said that. We can feel our mistakes of, it was a very long time ago. I felt that way. Yeah, a month. Three weeks ago. I've got. You kind of, and something I really like about you and you touched on it before, you're very vocal about what you view as your mistakes and very vocal about your decisions, whether you view them to be mistakes or not.

We run spaces, and it was about 90-ish cents, 92, 93. And you're like, the investor part of me says, double down on my position. I'm not going to this time. I made a mistake. Yep. Yep. Well, the ego, you know, my ego, when I make a mistake like that, I bought two wedges of it. And then when it went down in 92, I'm like, okay, the first thing I thought was, I think it was in the 80s, actually.

I was like, okay, I should just go grab another half a million dollars to smash it. lower my average cost. And I'm like, why would I do that? The management's fucked up right now. Why would I go and try to double my position on something that the management's making just fundamental mistakes? I'm sorry, David.

You're acting like a child, that you've got to get off of Twitter. I did not invest in this kind of management. You don't raise $750 million and then go, oh gosh, the convertibles that Michael launched, there's some risk on those like dude don't tell me that post facto

that you're just learning okay like I did not I'm not interested in paying somebody who's been in Bitcoin 13 years to learn so look but that's on me I'm not really blaming them I am the one making made the mistake

I do I do think people are going to differentiate the stock prices most certainly said we do not approve so if you don't like me and want to unfollow me awesome but every shareholder is telling you we do not approve i think the management probably gets you know changed and or somebody picks them up for six seven eight hundred million dollars they're worth three hundred to four hundred million dollars right now and they've got uh 5700 bitcoin which should be worth 700 million bucks so they're trading at a deep

discount they own 15% of meta you should ask sailor like sailors got to be looking at going how many salivating well for me he doesn't need to pay a premium for bitcoin but japan access to the japanese market would be very interesting for microse as a shareholder of strategy i would love him to have access to japan you can't just go launch in japan that's why i met a plan that's done so well because they're they haven't really done that way they had done so well i should say but they were the only gave they were the only game in town they were they were they were strategy 2020 or 2021, or even 2022, you choose your year.

But they, and this is why Nakamoto, I think, identified the let's go into markets that don't have exposure and create a micro-strategy-type vehicle. I get why they did Metaplanet, but that's very unique situation. I see what Meta did it. Yeah, because they have, you can't buy an UTF there. And if you buy a spot Bitcoin, the taxes for selling are way worse than the taxes for selling the equity.

So you're getting a huge tax arbitrage by doing it. And there's no other game. in town, no ETFs, right? So your micro strategy pre-ETF with all the lessons learned. Yeah, it does make sense to me intellectually that you should go do that in every country in the world that doesn't have exposure, but every market's getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Well, you just can't do an issue either. I mean, it's not like you can just go to Japan and, hey, I'm here. I mean, I'm talking to Sailor in Vegas. So right before you came over, we did the prep call, which basically is just like free college education. Right.

said so there's a fireside chat what are we going to talk about that's totally my decision but he laid out for me basically a deck on digital credit and when he put it in a chart like STRK STRC and then versus currencies and versus mutual funds and versus all the yield beautiful and when you eliminate the taxes and I mean he's just created a bunch of products for people who actually shouldn't care so deeply about Bitcoin to earn a much better yield than they're getting in other markets that can be exited much earlier. And I feel like he's just opened this massive flood of money

and continues to find ways to do that. Nobody else is competing with that. So, like, I think if you asked him, he would say treasury companies can do this, they can... But I'm not sure that there's an appetite for anyone else beyond him. Like, you don't want some random dude doing that where's your appetite for buying that instead of sailors STRC?

STRC, like the volatility, I think he says 50 bits. Like you can count on it going, you know, 50 bits above 100 or below. You're earning a 10% yield. It's extremely safe. I think it's backed four, five to one, whatever it was by Bitcoin, wildly over-collateralized. So, A, you can just earn 10% instead of 2% in your bank account. You kind of have Bitcoin exposure, and you can exit it and enter it. No, you don't have any Bitcoin exposure on that.

You have a 10% yield. Emotionally, you do. I'm participating in the Michael Saylor's guess, but yes, you don't. I think that investor doesn't want exposure to Bitcoin. They just want the 10% yield. They don't care. They don't care, man. My sister doesn't care where she's getting it.

You know, once she's in it, hey, how's it for? But the more interesting conversation there maybe is that he's willing to give a 10% yield, which means he has a very, he's willing to pay more than you're willing to pay to one of those companies to his, rate, but that means he's paying more than 10% on his money to get Bitcoin. Okay, but I think this is the difference. I would pay 10 if I could borrow a trillion dollars to it. And his 10% isn't, because most of what he borrowed was at zero.

So, like, think about this, and he probably isn't thinking about this. This may be the wrong way to think about it, but my weighted average cost of interest across that whole company, even if I do, equal amount at 10%, is less in. 6% did. If you fucking all up, whoa, I can, I'll most certainly do that with you. Do you own STR, C, SDR, do I know, all of it? No, no, no, no. I don't want yield. Why do you want any income? You got to pay taxes on it. I do not want any income whatsoever. Do not pay me anything, please. Like, I've got some income I'd like to give away. I mean, I take any income I haven't smashed it into Bitcoin.

If you're one of the fortunate people who can live like that, if you're a check-to-check. Everyone can live that. Well, if you want to get into that conversation, okay, the truth is no one's working 80 hours a week. If you're not working 80 hours a week, you own nothing. You know that, dude. We give all you people that are bitching about, like, not making enough money, no one walks up to my front door and says, what can I do to earn $1,000? This cat's been in my house a bunch of them.

Dude, there are 10 jobs to do for $1,000 each. No one. I got a boat, $55,000 boat sitting on the back of my goddamn rack. Come take it from me, dude. You can make $15,000 on it. Just get rid of it, pay me something, clean it. No one. Not whites, not blacks, not teenagers, not old people.

No one is working 80-hour weeks. Sold. And I can buy Bitcoin and work 20-hour week now. Right there. You see what I'm saying? No, I just don't believe this is true, okay? Like if you're at Pie Pye's Fried Chicken and you're working there, you should be working two jobs. That's what I did.

Geez, man. Football players, baseball players, and people on Wall Street work 100 hours every fucking week. Professional ballplayer, golfer is training on Saturdays and Sundays to play on Monday. Business salespeople show up Monday to prepare for Tuesday. Get into their CRM, figure out who their top 10. clients are. Like, dude, I do not need an automated program or a blockchain or a CRM to tell me who my top 10 clients are. You know who they are? Bitcoin, Bitcoin. Those are my top 10 clients. Wow, I don't even get any complaints from my clients. They love me. It's such a...

No refunds, dude. No lawsuits. Did you like save this for today? Have you been saying this business thing over and over again? I feel like I haven't like heard that. I feel like I haven't heard the pitch of Bitcoin, treat Bitcoin as a business here. I listen. And I talk to you every day. We should go on a roll because I listen to all these guys, my brother and all these people barring money. I'm like, that's awesome. Dude, I bought 31 Bitcoin last week. I bought 300 Bitcoin. I bought 3,000. Dude, I bought 31 and nobody else but me owns some. I like it. And I did it with debt. Death that I can afford to pay every month. That's where my income goes.

Pay the debt off, eight or nine percent. How is that different than paying 8% for a mortgage. How is it different? Right? This house is going to cost you a fucking fortune. You know that. Right? It's going to be worth 100 Bitcoin one day.

The stories are people who paid like, you know... $120 million from my house, dude. I put $8.6 million in that house, and if I'd have bought $1,000 Bitcoin, it's $112 million a day. It's a nice house. My insurance just went up $5,000. Now, I have a house that's a business, and my insurance just went up 50%.

Is that because of the flood risk? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's one offer. Yeah, there's only, you can't get insurance. And then there was Chubb, 350. Went from 56 to 96 and Chubbs out there at 350. Okay? So like, H.O.A fees are going to jack.

Real estate's going to be destroyed. This area, like, it's going to be a problem. H.O.A fees are problematic. And now, if DeSanos does it as a favor and does no tax, which I think it is real. Or is that just like a, uh, this sounds awesome sound bite. How do you do that? Like how did the municipalities, I mean, this is, how does Tampa survive without property taxes? This is literally like how, but it's how we pay for schools. Yeah, but it is. I love the idea of not paying property taxes, but like it's not like that money's going to be replaced.

Yeah, I don't know. Schools, firemen, you know, important. things maybe schools aren't that important but well based on the product we're getting I would say that perhaps not I think you should like create a whole deck a speech or a deck that Bitcoin is a business I think you can go on the sailor road show I'm not kidding like I think it's one of the more brilliant framings of it that I that I've heard but well but you can see what I've been I mean look you saw when I came in the industry I started investing in companies yeah Right? And I started buying Bitcoin. I saw Node 40. I stuck 8 mil into Node 40. It's a great business. Okay. But the more I looked at it, the more I'm like, I think we were about 75,000. I called Perry. I said, Perry, I think I own half the company. I said, Perry, you're going to find another investor. Okay? Because I don't, one, I don't want to go to any more meetings and talk about accounting. This is a huge, this is a beautiful tool. Okay, it's a great business. But I have spent a whole life. building these things, flying around, meeting people, doing biz, dev. And the more I looked at it,

I'm like, $70,000 Bitcoin. I got $7.5 million in this business. The business is going to be worth a few hundred million dollars easily one day. So some of the biggest players in the world, but it has noise. You just buy Bitcoin with all the money you put into that. I just like, hey, dude, I'm just going to buy Bitcoin because it has no noise. The only noise it has is it does this. And it allows me, me and Grant bought $108,000 Bitcoin today. We just put bids in. Hey, man, fill me. Fill me when you're ready. Boom. Grant picks up 300. I pick up 30 Bitcoin. And this is... Do you think he's going to stop working? He's just going to finally give up on all of it and say, I'm working my ass off? No, he's... No, no, no. He's a bull. Because he could just buy Bitcoin, too.

Yeah. He's got enough money that he could just buy Bitcoin and be fine forever and not have to do anything else. He's got 42 funds. See, here's another thing. That's a lot of work. He couldn't just stop it. Oh, he can't now. See, no, he couldn't do. Like, you just don't unwind 42 funds.

So, yes, he's, but I have ultimate freedom here. And I can decide to go anywhere. He's got 42, like, this was his problem getting into Bitcoin because the Bitcoin people were going, you need to sell everything. You don't want you sell 42 fucking assets. 40, 100,000 investors. I was going to say, yeah. I mean, right, he's got something going there.

He likes the real estate business. I don't really find it that interesting, but it's his whole business. It's been his whole life. And he's the right guy to bring Bitcoin to it. I knew that for sure today. Clearly. Like, I knew when they hit the guy.

Me and Taylor just. You told me the story about him, Taylor calling him a pussy, and then Grant Tubman. I brought Grant was like, yeah, he called me a pussy. Dude, I brought Grant into Sailor's house, and I'm like, and Grant knows everything, and we're going into there. I'm just like, dude, you're a pig being led to the slaughter.

Okay, I was trying to help my brother, but in order to help certain people, you've got to really understand them and do it a different way. I think I told you, but I brought, we were at the Bitcoin Conference 22. Yeah. And this guy, Richard Byworth, I don't know if you remember him. He came up to me. He was like, I'm with Millet, the ex-president of Argentina. I really think we can orange pill him.

Can you set up a meeting with Sailor? And I text Eric Weiss, you know, Sailor's like, buddy. And I'm like, I've got the Argentinian president. Can we come over? And we'll Sailor meet with him. He's like, yeah, but he's not going to speak. Like, I know he's a president, but like, and went over there. And for one hour, Sailor said everything.

And Milet didn't say a word. And he left thinking that he had just met the high priest of the future religion of the world. it's just probably did but he doesn't yeah he doesn't like sailor is not

hearing it he's speaking it right and it's impressive enough that there's not a person on the planet who walks out of there and says

that was dumb he breaks it down man I think some people have no he does break it down but but what got I think what got Grant was hey look you're not going to do

you're not going to double your real estate state position in the next 10 years unless you do something spectacular and you know his allocation I think the first one was 15% that's what sailor said yeah um but look that's the right way to communicate with grant because he got his attention with fair with due respect to everyone everyone has their own way of transitioning and coming into something I mean I'm a little crazy okay like or maybe I had more pain or maybe I had an issue I was trying to solve. I think Bitcoin is for people who have an open mind because there's

some scratch or itch or problem they have. Most people that come in here, they're trying to solve a problem that really come in hard. And I think I'm actually have a safer investment thesis today than I ever have in my entire life. Safer, much, much, much safer, much better safe, and allowing me to have a better life, which is, I don't know how you value that. Oh, by the way, I also met you and at least five dozen, five dozen high-quality people from an industry. I knew nothing about it. Yeah, that's great. Zero value in the $110,000 price. Literally five dozen really high-quality people. Some serious big brains in this industry. Well, and quality, dude. Like, if I came, hey, I need some place to stay. You got to stay. You'd be like, stay here tonight.

Gary's awesome. I mean, seriously, that is not. I've been in five industries. That has not happened to me. Emmy told you, she was like, if you're still unpacking, just sleep here. Fine, there's a room out of it. Yeah. But it's, it's an interesting collection of people that are all coming together. That is also one of the things I look at, not just the price. Who's coming in? Well, it's like Betty on the jocky. Yeah, Betty on the jockey instead of the horse. If you meet enough great jockey. Correct. people, you're like, they're on to something. Oh. And many of these people have serious track records.

Right? Serious. I mean, Paul Tudor Jones is one of the greatest traders in history, man. For his, I mean, he might have sparked the last bull run with that fastest horse in the race comment. Guys have been on board for a long time. You know, and then look at the guys that

were on board, and they misunderstood it, and now they're back on board. Jamal. Can you imagine owning 5% of all the supply of Bitcoin and then selling it. By he's back, he's doing fine. Oh yeah, but

he'd be in the Oval Office today, dude, if he'd have held all that. He'd be in David's job. He'd be in David's job. Did you see the building the White House ballroom and the lead donations were like, what was it, what was it, Coinbase? Yeah. Ripple, maybe. I don't want to admit. But like three huge crypto companies, they're going to get like gold bitcoins all over the

presidential. Do you get a Coinbase logo on the ceiling of the White House? With a Trump signature on it? You were very political for a while. You seem to have fallen off the political train. I've never been political. Yeah, I don't. Let me say you were dabbling for a while.

Well, I gave 12.8 Bitcoin to Trump through Bitcoin community. I didn't give it directly to Trump. Maybe I should have. But I wanted to do it through Bitcoin because I thought the message was more. Well, I thought the message was. And I did that with Bailey. Bailey made one phone call to me. I'm like, sure did it.

I literally was there with you. Took me 12 hours. And I thought it was a good way for me to tell the Bitcoin community that I'm fully in and also a message to the administration. And it gave me a seat at the table with the Winkle boss guys and all the miners. and some of the senators and congressmen to get, look, I knew I was putting a big wedge in this thing, and I just wanted to, I've been. It's like due diligence.

Yeah, exactly. And I've done some reforms like this before. What I don't like about the politics is all the people in between the leaders. It's a parasitic. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And I just, I'm not getting on my knees to pay homage to anyone, and I'm not going to get regged all the time for money. And I think the political system is just,

extremely toxic and broken. So I'm just going to buy my Bitcoin, mind my own business. And well, I'm not going to really mind my own business. I mean, I need to be, I want to remain neutral. Bitcoin's allowed me to be independent and speak my peace. And the more I get close to being affiliated with some group, I'm just not the guy that's not going to say, hey, foul, foul, foul, foul, you know, it's not cool just because I'm in a group. How much Bitcoin is enough, then? If Bitcoin is your business, it's your opt-out from politics, it's your fuck you leave me alone, money, and I'm not, listen, you're operating at a different level than most

people, but is there a point where it's like, okay, I've bought enough of this stuff? I know you're not there yet. I bought more than I thought I could do by this point. I'm, I'm, I'm 28% of the way where I want to be. And that's the way I think about it. I think about adding Bitcoin. Not, not dollar volume, just adding how much Bitcoin, you know. Look, this is a game that doesn't really, when you say that, I don't, it doesn't

require massive amounts of my time and energy. I mean, when would I be done buying the best real estate on the planet? If I have excess cash and I can buy Manhattan, if you're going to sell me Manhattan over and over and over again, and I can't buy anything better than Manhattan or at a monster discount that, you know, why would I stop buying this stuff? This is a $2 trillion industry going to a $200 trillion industry.

None of you guys understand how big this is going to be. It started so small. Y'all are looking at it going, oh yeah but it can't get this thing can eat everything everything and two trillion is nothing nothing two trillion i'm old enough to remember when a trillion like was a two trillion dollar industries do not fail that is a maximum dude like it's got too much inertia it has escape velocity it ain't coming down so all the money that's sitting in real estate 330 trillion seven trillion dollars making four percent, it's going to move into instruments that have access to Bitcoin and the people

don't even know it, STRC. They don't know it. Good man, paying my 10% yield. It's going to go on to people like my brother whose entrepreneurship is going to be like, whoa, I can double my cap rate. I can get better collateral. I have access to an audience, you know, his first raised dude, most of his new customers. They were all new customers. For some reason, the real estate Bitcoin pitch, brought in new players, not real estate, and not Bitcoin players. He was shocked. The advertising for him, and I told him this was going to happen, dude, it's worth $5 million in advertising. He laughed at me. I bet you it's worth 15 to them. Look what saying Bitcoin did for Donald Trump. Exactly. That's what I tell him.

Bro. People will pour money at you if you just become one of us. You can even be the most hated person on the planet, just buy a Bitcoin and publicly talk about it, and all of a sudden, you're a hero. You used to be that way. Politicians, people hated, oh, you own 0.1 Bitcoin made a disclosure. I love that guy. So I talked about, and briefly, before we go, I've got to get you more coffee. I don't want to shut your engine off.

To the upside, how fast and furious do you think it continues up? And what are the factors? I mean, before I know we've got to go, but before we stopped at, like, get it there. You know, a million in, we both agree, Bitcoin's going to a million bucks, right? Although I think that a million dollars are going to buy you a lot less if that happens. A million dollars, a million dollars would be

a $21, no, $210 trillion market. There's only $16 million Bitcoin. Yeah, because $5 million are lost. Yeah. I think, I mean, look, I don't need it to go to a million dollars. No, neither. You know, I'm okay with, 110 this year, 120 next year, 1.30 next year, 140 the following year. If that's all I get, man.

That's because we're guys who grew up being told, hey, if you make 10% in the stock market, you double your money every seven years. Great. No, that's not. That was the pre-everything's a lottery ticket days. That's not why I'm saying that. What I'm saying is that I have a business that doesn't require any fuel whatsoever. And as long as I'm willing to wait, I know that 10% every year, that $10,000 increase. every year. One year it's going to be 50 or 100. And it's going to be a step change like you know, when a airplane or a rocket, when a rocket lifts off, it uses all this fuel to get up there. And as soon as it hits atmosphere, what does it do? It jettisons everything, dude. It jettisons everything that got it there. And what does it do? And I think we're going to, we will have this moment. And you can't sit on the sidelines and wait for that moment to show up and go,

oh, I'm going to go now. We already know, dude, you can't buy these drops. These drops are very difficult to buy. And the accelerators are hard to buy. Like, you can get ripped. It's just hard to place bids in, you know. People are chasing 105 when it's 108 and it's like, oh, like 105 and 108 are the same price. Exactly. And why are they doing that? Like real business people don't do that. This is what I love about Saylor. He's always been right at the market. Just buying, dude. Just buying. Doesn't care, dude. Okay, then knocker goes and buys

118. At once. And, like, dude, all at one time? Bro. With no way to get more capital right now. Hello? Empty. Fuel tank's empty. You didn't, you know, you and I were talking about that the other day. I'm like, hey, where's got any more cashed? Yeah, that's the part that didn't

quite, you gave me the light bulb moment on that. It's a problem, dude. I mean, you can't run out of fuel in these games. So it doesn't require any fuel, have no human error risk, and I'm making 40% a year. But I'm assuming I'm only going to make five or six or eight, okay? If I assume I'm only going to make five or six or seven or eight, then I live like I'm only making five or six or seven eight. I'm not buying airplanes. Well, what's a two million dollar Popeye's franchise making your 150 grand for the owner, operate or 100?

You know what? It makes you like a slave to a business. And to make 5%. 10% maybe. That's why you got to own 46 of them. Pray to God you're not in Tampa when a hurricane comes through. It's never happening again. Once in a hundred years, buddy.

Right out. It can't happen. It's science. The problem is in St. Pete, 18 months later, they still don't have hotels open. So that guy's getting crushed and try to collect from the insurance company. Bitcoin is a business. I'm telling you, man. You like it.

You hit it. Well, let's do something on your show one day and just talk about. about it, because to me, it's very, very logical. No, but you need to, I mean, I know you don't want to put in more effort, but you need to, like, go on a road show with that concept. I need to put that. I don't know. I'm just saying it's got legs.

Not for profit. I think, like, you just, even for me, like, you unlocked another avenue for marketing Bitcoin that people might get. When I start investing in some of these, when I listen to the pepies of the world, see, I think about it that way. Hey, wait, wait, am I going to break my trend? I'm going to violate, look. See, I came in and, oh, wow, this is the business I'm hunting.

It's a business, dude. Not selling. It's a business. And continuing to acquire, figuring out, hey, where can I get some more cash? Back to the 80 hours. What can I sell, man? See, I have things. Oh, sell that house, sell those guns.

I don't think I'm going to buy that. I'm not going to buy that range rover. I don't need that range rover, dude. like I can make decisions not to do things and if that makes me incredibly wealthy it just means I ran my business correctly where my revenues were greater than my operating expenses hello economics 101 man

it's making me think I shouldn't have built a studio and I should have just streamed from my bathroom well I don't get the message out now maybe you don't need four studios I only got one so far I got dreams man you should have dreams but this is the beauty of bitcoin how old are you 42 50 i'll be 40 i'll be 49 next yes so you're a young guy man uh feels that way well i feel young actually yeah you're probably mentally 12 yeah well that's a fact 20 can't wait to drink what i was going to say was you know john how old you 44 49 a little bit older this scenario of running bitcoin is a business

works for absolutely every age. I'm solved. Absolutely every age. And every time I invest in something like knockin, it goes down 40%, I'm like, gosh. I just bought Bitcoin. I mean, that was $500,000, okay? That's five Bitcoin, that I've just turned into two and a half. Five Bitcoin.

Now, I'll recover it, okay. I'm not going to die. I think you might recover it and knock out to be quite honest. Oh, I think I will probably too, but I wouldn't double down. Most certainly would not double down. And not all these companies are going to make it. No. But it will start an M&A.

They're going to consolidate. It's going to bring on an M&A play. Yeah, huge. Hey, but just before we end, I want to just do one thing. I do something on Sundays called I Am. Well, it's not really church. I mean, people call it church. I don't want to offend anyone.

But one of the things I've learned from some of the greatest traders in the world is they are some of the most introspection, introspective people I've ever known. really not, they look at all their areas where they're blind to that can lead to a catastrophic risk play. I have found doing this work called what I call I am, I think the two most important words in the human vocabulary, just to, like you learn early on in your life, hey, I know who I am not, right? And not, and knowing who you're not, like, I will never run another large company. I don't want to do it. I'm not like that anymore. And it's really important for me to know because if I got driven into a role like that, I would hate it. Right. And now I'm no longer

on purpose. So I just wanted to tell your audience, if you guys are struggling, if you're looking for direction, I have a little thing. I brought you a book. And it's called the I AM book. And And this is your way, this is just for you, and for you to, I just drove down the story and wrap the book, but just to like, hey, I am Scott Melker. Today, I think people really are confused as to who they're supposed to be and who they're supposed to operate like, and we've never taken any time. We were talking about your kids earlier. Yeah, but we were talking about your kids and like, imagine if you're a six-year-old,

their first course is, I am Bobby. And I am, you know, whatever they are. But they begin envisaging who they are. And we just spend very, very little time on that. So anyway, I just found it helpful. I thought I'd bring you a book. Appreciate it. Start doing your IIMs.

I will. Ain't going to hurt you. As always, man. Thank you so much.