The Wolf Of All Streets - I Will Die With My Bitcoins | Scott Walker

Starting point is 00:00:00 He who controls the memes controls the world. Hold my bitcoins. I will die with my bitcoins. That scares me. That absolutely scares me. If the audience needs to know, I have terrible ADHD and horrible organizational skills. I'm good at talking, but I'm actually making things happen. So it took finding ourselves collectively on a yacht in Dubai to have the conversation. That was one of the most epic interviews I've ever kind of sat in on. Can I interrupt your podcast to lock my G-Wagon?

Starting point is 00:00:27 Scott Walker is an absolute OG in Bitcoin who started mining Bitcoin with Brock Pierce in the early days. And he is never selling. He says he's going to die with his Bitcoins and tells us why. But in this wide ranging live conversation from Dubai, we not only talked about Bitcoin, but what's going to happen with the market, this cycle, how it's different, how it's the same, how to invest in it, and of course, meme coins. You don't want to miss this. It's one of my favorite conversations with one of my favorite people in crypto. Five minutes ago, there was a pillow sitting in that chair with a Shiba Inu. That was one of the most epic interviews I've ever kind of sat in on. So you're the pillow. I am officially, yeah. So I have to start today with

Starting point is 00:01:25 an apology because i've owed you an interview since singapore but singapore this year i don't remember yeah i know i don't even remember there was at least one or two singapore's where we had that conversation yeah if the audience needs to know i have terrible adhd and horrible organizational skills i'm good at talking but actually making things happen so it took uh finding ourselves collectively on a yacht in Dubai to have the conversation. Once again in a side location towards a big conference. Two men, no shoes. Two men, no shoes. That's pretty good. That's right. So you know as you alluded to, Token 2049 is happening somewhere

Starting point is 00:02:04 over there. We obviously haven't been there because we're on this beautiful boat, but we're on this beautiful boat because of you and because DNA is making a comeback. So maybe you could give us the quick rundown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd love to. I'd love to. Our history and our background is I'm an entrepreneur, really, you know, started, you know, small startups and got lucky, I think, with timing and had a little ringtone and software, mobile software company go public in 2007, six or seven, and sold my shares not long after, met this young child actor genius who I had introduced to and we became friends and we started just investing into little software startups, pretty meaningless, nothing of success from 2008 till 2012.

Starting point is 00:03:04 Not long after that, we decided to mine bitcoins. And I spent a lot of time reading and really kind of fell down the rabbit hole, loved it. After our miners were obsolete, we decided, let's just take our bitcoins and invest them. And the idea of DNA was born, you know, since 2013, June of 2013 was our first, you know, like the principles of DNA is investment. We've, you know, we've probably gone and invested early stage into nearly a hundred projects, lots of them that failed, some of them that did really well. And finally in 2024, we've decided we're going to make a comeback. We're going to take a bunch of the team and we're going to do our best to find the best early stage projects, help get them funded, take them on the road into beautiful

Starting point is 00:04:00 locations and introduce them to the greater community. Crypto investors in the United States face some major challenges. One of them is that there's almost no way to get exposure to the asset class inside of your traditional investment vehicles. The other thing is the taxes. They are absolutely atrocious. What if I told you there was a way to solve both of these problems? Well, there is. And it's with a self-directed IRA from iTrust Capital. Guys, not only can you open a new self-directed IRA and fund

Starting point is 00:04:31 it with the limits each year, but you can actually convert over from your 401k, your Roth IRA, any other IRA that you already have. And you can do that tax-free, just transferring over the balance. And then you can go to cash, buy as much Bitcoin than you want and not pay taxes when you sell it. You absolutely have to try this if you are in the United States. Use the link down below. It's bit.ly slash itrust-scott. That's B-I-T dot L-Y slash I-T-R-U-S-T dash S-C-O-T-T. You have to try this now. Okay. So it's April, 2024. Yep. I think.

Starting point is 00:05:08 Yeah, the having. Hard these days. The having, we were just talking about that. The having is now, and you're restarting. Yep. So to me, that means you have a hell of a lot of confidence that this music is not stopping anytime soon. This feels like, and I know it's,

Starting point is 00:05:24 I agree it's not the first inning of this next cycle. You know, but at some point, over the last three to five months, as the buildup to, you know, the question of, was an ETF going to actually happen? Was it ever going to happen? Would it be successful if it happened? So that buildup occurred. And that certainly was the beginning of this cycle. The ETFs did happen. Billions and billions of dollars in institutional capital came in and it and it kind of shifted the narrative from Bitcoin as this oddball, speculative asset, kind of an underground thing that, you know, you and I have thought of, you know, like we never believed it was,

Starting point is 00:06:14 but the rest of the world did. So suddenly it, I think it became a little bit more institutionally acceptable, you know, with BlackRock and, you know, trillion dollar funds. We got the Larry Fink treatment. We have the Larry Fink treatment as our, you know, as our main asset class of this crazy industry. And so, you know, with that and with that in mind and with the historical cycles of a Bitcoin having and then knowing that over the next six to 18 months, historically, for the better part of the last 12 years, we've seen the same thing happen. All time highs to Bitcoin, all time highs typically to the rest of the altcoins, the different other assets that get built in that way.

Starting point is 00:07:02 The DeFi summer, the NFTs uh right now it's the meme coins you know what what exactly will uh you know will will take us into the next level i i don't know but but we're going to be here to watch it that's for sure but then the music stops the music will slow down um you know even you know here's what i like to here's what I like to remember and remind people. One of my really good friends, I was preaching to everybody, buy Bitcoin, just buy Bitcoin. Forget about it, buy Bitcoin. Oh, it's garbage. It's this, it's that. Back in 2012 and 2013, I'm like, come on, Dan. And he lived in he lived in France. And finally, Mount Gox happened. Mount Gox, the single exchange that managed over 80 percent of all Bitcoin transactions. Basically, the whole world of Bitcoin collapsed, imploded, and everybody's assets were stolen.

Starting point is 00:08:03 People's, you know, life savings potentially were stolen out of that exchange and six months later Bitcoin still was there still making blocks People still said, you know, I I still want some of that It certainly it crashed the price, but if there was ever a definition of the music stopping that was the definition not long after that my friend dan said i'm going to start a new company and he created an early early startup and a crypto startup in france based on proof of stake which uh which immediately imploded and failed much too much to dan's and my chagrin I was of course an early investor into it but it was just you know one of the you know one of the bumps on the path of

Starting point is 00:08:48 this ten-year you know series of cycles and the music sort of slows down it doesn't quite stop even when FTX steals everyone's money right from underneath our noses right in front of the regulators, right in front of everyone. It slowed things down, certainly. It changed the time of the cycle. But Bitcoin's still creating blocks. There are still use cases for smart contracts and immutable public ledgers. It's still really cool. But what do you make of the fact that you witnessed Mt. Cox in 2014 and then had to witness multiple Mt. Coxes, although to a smaller scale? To a smaller scale.

Starting point is 00:09:30 It's not 80% of the entire ecosystem, but FTX, Celsius, Voyager, BlockFi, etc. You'd think we would have learned something. You would. You would. And like, obviously, what what I've learned is what the old school Bitcoiners have always said. Keep custody of your assets. If you give assets to somebody else, they might lose them for one reason or another. And despite the Celsiuses and the BlockFis of the world who promised the sun and the moon and ended up delivering bankruptcy, that holds true. If you can custody and keep your assets, those are safe. Maybe in this cycle, we found real asset managers that we can trust this time. Maybe they're not running, you know, I mean,

Starting point is 00:10:26 I'd like to believe that BlackRock and, you know, and, you know, and these types of, you know, custodians and, you know, investment banks and things like that will be able to do what so many others in the past have failed to do, which is to successfully protect their customers. Their customers, but still not your keys, not your coins. Not your keys, not your coins. So you are, you know, you're obviously, you're still trusting. You know, at Coinbase, you're trusting someone. You're trusting someone at Coinbase and almost all of these ETF issuers are trusting Coinbase.

Starting point is 00:11:00 Which is kind of scary. Fidelity custody is themselves. And I believe VanEck uses Gemini. I think everybody else has Coinbase, if I'm correct. I think you're absolutely right. And that scares me. That absolutely scares me. So if something were to happen to Coinbase cold storage, that would slow the music down.

Starting point is 00:11:23 Yeah. Without question. I don't know how Coinbase cold storage works. I hope that the major providers that have entrusted tens of billions, soon to be hundreds of billions of dollars, into those cold storage solutions, you know, understand the security behind them

Starting point is 00:11:45 and a bit of due diligence this time I hope I hope because due diligence in the last cycle was that guy trust him so awesome so I must that guy and that got Sam Bankman freed all the way to Capitol Hill somehow Sam Bankman freed sat there giving millions of dollars to politicians with customers stolen money. That never ceases to amaze me. But, you know, when it's all said and done, I think the wash has been cleaned out a lot from that 2020 and 2021 massive cycle. I think we're, you know, we're back with a whole new series of protocols, a whole new series of projects, really interesting, exciting. It's a multi-chain world. I think we'll see more and more new,

Starting point is 00:12:37 interesting use cases. Solana has turned into an absolute mean, you know, like an absolute monster with, you know, thousands and tens of thousands of new project launching on there every month. It's a little rocky for them right now. You know, maybe they will be able to scale. Maybe they won't. But it never seems to amaze me. Something happens. I like that we said, first of all, I will say, if you want to talk about music slowing and not stopping,

Starting point is 00:13:07 Solana is another great example that I'm sure Bitcoiners would hate to hear it because many of them probably would have liked to see a lot of these things die. But they also survived that cycle. They did. The Solanas, you're talking about an $8 asset that went back to $200, for better or for worse, whatever you think of it. But they are having scaling problems. And I kind of had to giggle when you accurately said launching projects. But the reality is...

Starting point is 00:13:30 Memes. Lottery, digital lottery tickets. Digital lottery tickets with funny names. And, you know, speaking of, with the success of the meme economy, which it exists, how exactly, you know, Dogecoin became a thing, I don't know. As a lifelong entrepreneur, I've always prided myself on trying to find a product market fit, something that improves on a problem in the world,

Starting point is 00:14:03 somehow, some way, a better exchange, a better custody solution. I've invested in these types of visionaries and these type of projects for so many years that the idea of placing my hard earned capital into a, into what is actually a joke of a coin. Um, you know, Doge was launched as a joke. Literally. Literally. And, you know, and watching, you know, my friends at Shiba Inu and seeing what kind of an incredible community has been built around there,

Starting point is 00:14:37 it feels like the market has spoken, meme coins exist, and, you know, according to Elon Musk, he who controls the memes controls the world. Yeah, I think that we actually need to reclassify meme coins as the ones who have gained a certain level of traction that are actually seeking utility, whether they find it or not. And the outright cat with dog face, no shoe hat, literally new musk face, right, which is meant to exist for 24 hours. Right. And the participants know that, I think. I would like to hope that the people buying that know that they're playing musical chairs

Starting point is 00:15:18 and then ones that have, you know, created a true ecosystem, have an actual community. Because to me, the meme coin community for 99% of them is nonsensical. Of course. Just people chasing gains. The community disappears with the price, much like 99% of NFTs last cycle. But I would love if we could reclassify

Starting point is 00:15:41 a few of the meme coins that have survived enough time or have gained enough market cap or have enough participants or are building because they're just not the same. And I think people look at them as this one sweeping basket. We should do that right now. Yeah. There must be two categories of memes. What are they?

Starting point is 00:16:00 If I had the answer, I would have given it before because I've been thinking about that. But we need to come up with something very catchy for it. Maybe by the end it'll pop into our head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's circle back because it's a true story. There have been a couple of incredible memes that have been launched from nothing and turned into something. While most of them went from nothing to something to nothing immediately. The faster, the better.

Starting point is 00:16:27 Yeah. I've heard many people of late make the claim that Bitcoin was the first meme coin. I've heard the same thing. And I'd like to talk about that. I am a recovering Bitcoin maximalist. I believed. I believed with all my heart that Bitcoin was the only use case for crypto. And anything else that came from that was really just for me, it was a way to try to increase my Bitcoin stake without mining and without being a retail buyer. So I continuously went out and I took my precious Bitcoins and I gambled them on what I believed

Starting point is 00:17:16 to be a project that would gain me more Bitcoins. And what I learned, and I've shared this story, I'm sure I've shared it with you before. You know, what I learned after the Ethereum crowd sale was like to me, Ethereum was another altcoin meaningless with a with a tall, skinny Russian that was really smart. And in it and the idea of smart contracts on a blockchain, I felt like, well, Bitcoin can also achieve that. And and we don't need this. So after the you know, after the crowd sale, I traded a lot of bitcoins for a lot of Ethereum. And when Ethereum began trading, I immediately traded them right back. And so, you know, I did manage to increase my Bitcoin, but it was a painful experience to watch Ethereum go from a dollar where I sold mine to thousands of dollars.

Starting point is 00:18:18 And seeing that and thinking to myself, maybe there is more to this ecosystem than only bitcoin and i do believe that bitcoin serves an incredible purpose and i i do believe that it's you know i do believe it is potentially a humanity store of value i believe that is it it potentially a form of money that will live for hundreds and hundreds of years. And, you know, will it become, you know, the most valuable currency on earth? Could. It certainly could. You know, today it's market cap is around one and a half trillion dollars, which I think places it in the top 30 or so currencies. You know, could it become a three trillion? Could it double from there?

Starting point is 00:19:11 Certainly, you know, could it you know, could it you know, could it five X or 10 X from there? Certainly, you know, any of those things could happen. And what I've learned is as Bitcoin goes, so goes the rest of the ecosystem. And as long as I continue to see that, I'm going to continue to invest into the ecosystem. And I will always hold my Bitcoins. I will die with my Bitcoins. What I find so interesting is when I was listening to you talk about becoming a recovering Bitcoin maximalist, I would say I'm the same.

Starting point is 00:19:47 We should probably stand up, introduce ourselves, like an AA meeting. But there's levels to Bitcoin maximalism, you know, starting at toxic all the way down. And depending on what level you are, you can get your membership card pulled from the level above, right? Yeah, the top. I would say it's interesting because a lot of the early Bitcoin maximalists would have said that you had already committed a cardinal sin by daring to invest in other things with your precious Bitcoin. If you had done it with dollars, maybe you could have gotten half your card back. But to commit the sin of trading your Bitcoin at the idea of something else at that point.

Starting point is 00:20:23 Without question, without question, as a, you know, I've I've watched the community for a long time, as you have as well. And and certainly, you know, if I had chosen to only ever have Bitcoin and never try any other assets in this ecosystem. Had I not been there for the MasterCoin sale and, you know, had I not been there for the Ethereum sale and a number of these others, you know, I don't know how I would react. I, you know, I genuinely have no idea. So I get where they're coming from. I think their way of communicating is flawed. I've made the point. I've been eviscerated so many times by that community.

Starting point is 00:21:12 I think wrongfully, but it doesn't matter. To me, the worst marketing, the biggest problem potentially for Bitcoin sometimes when you're looking at mainstream adoption is Bitcoiners. Without a doubt. Right. And I think their intentions are good. sometimes when you're looking at mainstream adoption is Bitcoiners. Without a doubt. Right. And I think their intentions are good. But the messaging that's coming from very toxic and angry, nobody wants to hear that. You know, it turns off people more than it than it brings people in.

Starting point is 00:21:39 I would make the argument, actually, if we look factually and this is something that I'll also maybe get you canceled for by talking to me, sorry. Last cycle, as much as I think we'd like to believe that everyone came in and bought Bitcoin because of Michael Saylor and Tesla and all these things, which I think was a meaningful portion of the market, what turned people on was Doge and NFTs. NFTs, people forget how big Flow blockchain was with Top Shot, but Saturday Night Live, right? Elon Musk was talking about Doge.

Starting point is 00:22:10 I remember anecdotally talking to CZ and other exchange CEOs on the show and saying, you know, what's happening with the exchange? And every single one of them at that time said, we have a three month waiting list. Nobody can sign up. They all want Doge. Robinhood, same thing. I talked to Vlad, you know, and that's what everyone wanted. And interestingly, I think that this cycle, we expected this

Starting point is 00:22:30 mainstream wave when Bitcoin hit new all-time highs. I almost think that Doge needs a new all-time higher. NFTs need to come back for all the underwater people to actually care about crypto again. Interesting, because, you know, that's what they're underwater on. If you're holding Doge and you're down 70 or 80 percent and you don't have Bitcoin, you don't care about the ETF. I'm not saying this is right. I'm just saying, like, as a person who's underwater on that asset, imagine what happens to this ecosystem if somehow Doge returns to 70 cents. And and the hundred million holders of Doge worldwide suddenly feel good about themselves, suddenly feel good about the ecosystem again. And they decide to take some of their Doge winnings and put it into dog with hat.

Starting point is 00:23:14 Yeah. But what's interesting about the memes this cycle, not to circle back on memes necessarily, but what I hear when I had those interviews now is that people were waiting three months to get onto a centralized exchange where they had to KYC an AML to buy a meme coin. This time, for better or for worse, they can launch in two seconds in a completely decentralized manner and people can buy and sell them at will without KYC AML. So taking what they're trading and the fact that it's a casino, the system, at least, I think, has improved for the better. It's improved by a factor of 10. And one of our portfolio companies with Eyal Herzog, who really created the original concept around liquidity pools back with

Starting point is 00:24:06 Bancor in 2017. And his explanation of how these decentralized exchanges are working, it's incredible. It's amazing. And I think there will be more of them rather than less i think that the ease and the ability of users to go out find find some type of a crypto asset that they enjoy that they believe in it doesn't matter if it's a game or a joke or uh you know or or like a new world changing technology the ability for someone in India with $10 to buy some of that and potentially turn it into $100 is not going away. That amazing concept is out there and it's going to continue to perform. The music will slow down at times. The music will speed up at times. But we're part of this ecosystem.

Starting point is 00:25:07 We're going to see more of this rather than less. I agree. So back to the example of, you know, I know and met an 18-year-old kid who was in high school, made a $50 bet on Shiba and wound up with six figures, dropped out of high school, got a job in a tech industry, and has literally changed his life. He was here meeting with the Shiba team at the conference. It's absolutely incredible. And so I know you had a point about the other 99 kids. I mean, that can happen. That's an amazing story that happens here uniquely. And,

Starting point is 00:25:50 you know, for every kid who turns 50 into six figures, we got 90 kids who turned 50 into zero, but it's 50 bucks. Right, exactly. Right. But I do think that the point is well taken, that it can be a life- changing opportunity for people. More interestingly, I think the life changing opportunity of him starting to build in the ecosystem is actually more compelling than the money that he may be made. And that, I think, is where a lot of it is going to come from in the future. The real opportunity. And that feels like the future of what this industry has become. And, you know, we go back to Satoshi and Bitcoin because of that creation, because of that technical, you know, mind bending creation that that Satoshi did. Suddenly we have high school kids coding blockchains and making security software to check smart contract errors and you know

Starting point is 00:26:46 and to try and foil hackers and you know and and suddenly this whole ecosystem with millions and millions of people in it are all engaged in in different aspects of the business I'm I'm super bullish long-term super bullish it's really hard not to be so you obviously I'm assuming with long term, super bullish. It's really hard not to be. So you obviously, I'm assuming with DNA, you have your tentacles everywhere in this industry, right? You guys literally know everyone, I've seen it. Between you and Brock, you know, you guys all over the place.

Starting point is 00:27:15 That means that everything is presented to you at some point, you see it all. How do you decide what's worthy of an investment and what's not, or what's literally complete complete trash because there's a lot of complete trash yes and so oh that is that that is just the hardest question and I can you know I can share so many examples of you know from really you know from the from the 16 and 17 cycle seeing projects that looked I mean amazing founders you know from the from the 16 and 17 cycle seeing projects that looked i mean amazing founders you know amazing investor team amazing story and and then some kind of oddball startup idea that

Starting point is 00:27:56 didn't quite make sense and guess which one turned into zero and guess which one turned into, you know, the billion dollar thing. And for, you know, from my experience, it's been, you know, there's a fine line between choosing based on only the founders, believing in the founders, choosing just based on the technology technology does not win not in this business not in any business that I've seen so I think that timing properly in the market you know my my example of Bancor which actually pioneered the the AMM and Uniswap was simply, it wasn't ready in 2017. The market wasn't there. And now Bancor is worth nearly nothing

Starting point is 00:28:52 and Uniswap is worth billions and billions of dollars. Ride sharing existed before the iPhone but it failed. Right, exactly. Uber needed the iPhone. And so there is a unique combination of that, especially in crypto, and the cycles go so fast. You know, you had DeFi summer and suddenly everything DeFi took off and went crazy, followed by NFTs. And NFTs became monsters. And Metaverse fall with the rebrand of Facebook to Meta.

Starting point is 00:29:26 Yes, exactly, with Meta. And all of those things lasted momentarily, but they didn't stand the test of time. But don't the things that we're seeing now reek of that? RWA, D-PIN. I'm not saying that some of these things won't, but I continue to say we get really excited about things and they don't happen as fast as they want. Then get bored they exit and then they go parabolic five years later yes oh without question and you know and and of course you know which one you know which ones will be the winners um you know which ones will fail um you know when you're an early stage investor

Starting point is 00:30:00 and you know we're trying to you know we're trying to find seed stage and, you know, and right after seed stage for DNA. Again, as entrepreneurs specifically, we envision the business and we kind of, we see the entrepreneurs' visions. And that's kind of what captures me. When I see what they're doing and I look at that and say, man, that looks like something I want to join. I want to be part of this team no matter what. That's where we make our bets. It's so funny because you hinted on

Starting point is 00:30:38 probably the biggest truth yet, which is it just when you launch. Yeah. If you launch at the perfect moment when Bitcoin's at the right price and the hype is correct, you have such a better chance. You have such a better chance. Whether the technology is good or not, there's like the meme and crypto scams pump the hardest.

Starting point is 00:30:52 But it's kind of what you said. I mean, it's just if you launch at the perfect moment, then you can capture enough attention that you can actually see your technology come to fruition. But that leads me to ask, why haven't we seen, I would argue, out of Bitcoin itself and stable coins, why haven't we seen a true killer app yet? I think stable coins are absolutely a killer app when you see what's happening with them worldwide and Bitcoin itself, the very initial creation. I would make the argument that Ethereum improved on Bitcoin. Ethereum and the ability to write rules into a smart contract improved on what the original vision was.

Starting point is 00:31:35 And I think that is a killer app. And between Ethereum and all of the Ethereum competitors and the Layer 2s and those other things, you're talking hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in, you know, in network value in these different things. It takes a long time. You know, it takes a long time. You know, killer apps don't just happen overnight. You know, I mean, the Internet existed for 30 years. And, you know, suddenly Amazon came around.

Starting point is 00:32:08 And now, is Amazon the killer app of the internet? Is Google the killer app of the internet? You know, there's multiple killer apps in these technologies, and I think we'll see that with crypto. It's a fair point, which brings us all the way full circle back to Bitcoin this cycle, which I find so interesting. You said Ethereum's a fair point, which brings us all the way full circle back to Bitcoin this cycle, which I find so interesting. You said Ethereum is a killer app, smart contracts,

Starting point is 00:32:29 the ability to build these things, Taproot, whether intentionally or unintentionally, brought that capability. We have the halving and runes, brought it all back to Bitcoin. So do you think, I've heard people say, you know, Bitcoin will capture it all now because it's the biggest base layer I don't think so I think we'll live in a multi-chain world as you said before but do you think that the Bitcoin ecosystem can capture a meaningful percentage of what was being built elsewhere I've even heard some say that all of that in the end now that we have this capability made every other chain effectively a testnet for Bitcoin we can take the things that worked and ignore the lessons of the past that failed.

Starting point is 00:33:06 I mean, the short answer is I would bet against it. Certainly within the next 10 years, I would bet strongly against it. chance of massive worldwide adoption is for people like me who want to say I want to own a Bitcoin I'm going to own this Bitcoin whatever it takes I'm gonna own this Bitcoin I'm gonna do whatever I can to protect this thing I believe that in ten years my Bitcoin will be valued higher than my US. I believe that in 10 years, my Bitcoin will be valued higher than my US dollar. I believe that my dollar will be worth less and my Bitcoin will be worth more. So some of my dollars have to transition into Bitcoin. And I believe that corporations feel that same way. Some, not only Michael Saylor, others have done it. I believe countries are beginning to feel that same way some not only Michael Saylor others have done it I believe

Starting point is 00:34:05 countries are beginning to feel the same way and as you start to see corporate treasuries small countries medium-sized corporate treasuries medium-sized countries suddenly suddenly the the use case for Bitcoin really becomes an alternative to fiat currencies and that's what i really believe at its core it is i i believe really really strongly that 10 years from now 20 years from now my kids are going to be able to send your kids a a little bit of value on a blockchain powered by the bitcoin blockchain and it'll it'll get there and every 10 minutes that chain will update and i'm i i i will always believe that that is the most important

Starting point is 00:34:56 use case for bitcoin and all of the other things i mean ordinals are they're fun they create interest around bitcoin and around the blockchain that it increases fees I think it's good that Bitcoin fees are increased. I think it's important that Bitcoin Fees are increased because we're going to zero Rewards miners need to make money somebody needs to make money to continue to secure the network Okay, and so it has to come and it can't come from layer twos. It can't. That actually takes rewards off of the network.

Starting point is 00:35:31 So the network has to become self-sustainable. And if that's because of ordinals or JPEGs or NFTs or whatever they're called on top of the blockchain, then I think that's great. I think anything that strengthens the long-term outlook for Bitcoin is good and I think higher fees are good I think buying a cup of coffee with Bitcoin is meaningless and useless and you know don't get me wrong I've done it I wish I didn't you know I wish I didn't buy a pair of jeans I wish I didn't. You know, I wish I didn't buy a pair of jeans. I wish I didn't,

Starting point is 00:36:06 you know, pay for a round of golf. I wish I didn't get a fantasy football league with a Bitcoin buy in with my friends. I didn't win. You know, so I mean, I can think of all those stories. And, you know, again, I don't see Bitcoin as the ecosystem. And I don't see that as the ecosystem and I don't see that as the ecosystem that's going to create all these other things. Where's the funding coming from? There's not. You see, like as an early stage investor, when I see somebody building a new layer two that solves a real world problem for smart contract or, you know, or it connects

Starting point is 00:36:47 Bitcoin with Ethereum and it does atomic swaps in between them. I think that is worthy of investing in. I think that has a chance to 10x, 50x or 100x over the next period of years. That's where we're making our bets so i'm talking a long time on this but i'm passionate about this uh passion about this well i was just going to say i think that uh your description of your children and my children transacting value and your passion for getting that one bitcoin and holding it for dear life no matter what happens was probably one of the more eloquent descriptions, I think, of why this matters and why it's important,

Starting point is 00:37:28 and maybe was the answer to my killer app question. The rest of it may or may not happen, but it doesn't have to, because we already have Bitcoin. We already have it. All right, man, thank you so much. I'm glad we finally got to do this. I could do this, by the way, for hours, so we're gonna have to run this back.

Starting point is 00:37:41 Absolutely. Maybe in Puerto Rico. Please. The invitation is still open. Awesome, awesome man i'll see you soon thanks let's go

The Wolf Of All Streets - I Will Die With My Bitcoins | Scott Walker

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