The Wolf Of All Streets - Is The Bitcoin Bottom In? What's Next For Crypto?

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Joining me today are David Duong, Head of Research at Coinbase Institutional, and my friends from Arch Public, Andrew Parish, and Tillman Holloway, who will provide an update on the $10K algorithmic portfolio. David Duong: https://x.com/Dav1dDuong Unleash algorithmic trading with Arch Public: https://archpublic.com/ Andrew Parish: https://twitter.com/AP_Abacus Tillman Holloway: https://twitter.com/texasol61 ►► 🔥 LBANK Exchange - No KYC Required! Claim up to 50% trading bonus! Join today & get rewarded! Start trading to claim up to 50% in trading bonuses!! 👉https://www.lbank.com/activity/ScottMelker-Cashback?icode=4M3HD ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEKDAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/ ►► Arch Public Unleash algorithmic trading. Discover how algorithms used by hedge-funds are now accessible to traders looking for unparalleled insights and opportunities! 👉https://archpublic.com/ ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. Use code '10OFF' for a 10% discount. 👉https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://x.com/scottmelker Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.com/ Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c #Bitcoin #Crypto #Investments The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Bitcoin is currently trading at 87,000 American dollars, roughly $10,000 above the recent bottom. Leading many to ask, is the bottom in? Was this just another normal 30% ish correction in a bull market, or should we be waiting for lower prices? When I want to talk about markets and what's happening in the industry, we bring in the best like David Young from Coinbase.

And of course we have Andrew Parrish from ArchPublic and the ghost of Tillman who has decided once again not to join us when we're expecting him. We love you Tillman. It's gonna be a great show today guys, let's go. Let's go. What is up everybody? I'm Scott Melker also known as the wolf of all streets. Before we get started, please subscribe to the channel and hit that like button.

I feel like you're all subscribed to the channel and you don't care about the like button if we're being honest, but it's become such a routine thing to say I wouldn't even know how to start the show. Otherwise, maybe next time I will just bring on our amazing guests, Andrew and David and no Tillman. Thought he was coming. Thought he was, but Tillman's not joining us. Good morning, gentlemen. We were just talking off camera before about how incredibly boring the market is. It feels like we're holding our breath

and waiting for something. But today in particular, David, I went through the news this morning and it was a couple stories that are sort of from yesterday. Sailor obviously buying a whole lot of Bitcoin and passing 500,000. I think that's meaningful and worth talking about. But then a whole lot of nothing, some inflows here and there, some tariff news. Trump tweeted about his token.

I mean, what's happening here? Yeah. I mean, it's the first relief I feel like we've gotten in a few weeks. So I want to enjoy it, to be honest with you. I think that a lot of people are waiting for tariffs. It seems like there could be some moderation in terms of what we're going to get on April 2nd. So I think people are incrementally starting to position again, because really it doesn't matter what I mean, it matters. But I think like what actually happens on

that side of things, like what the problem is really just the uncertainty of, I don't know when these tariffs are coming. I don't know how much they're coming. Like it's the wind, how, if, uh, all those things make it really hard to kind of position yourself, uh, from investment perspective. If you are a treasurer who's trying to like invest in different projects or if you're an investor who trying to buy better markets, you just can't do it ahead of that kind of uncertainty.

So I think that with the prospect of that relief kind of coming, FOMC is now over. I think people are looking at the macro environment and saying, maybe here is where we can start kind of putting some money to work. Interesting, though, because even if we get tariff, quote unquote, clarity on April 2nd, don't we all know that it could just

change on April 3rd or any day based on a tweet or a comment? Right? I mean, every single day, this will be what the tariffs are. Then a week later, it's like, maybe there'll be some relief. And then it's a different number. And then he backtracks. And I know it's all a sort of negotiating technique. But even when we get certainty, it

feels like markets don't have certainty in the current environment. Yeah, you're kind of operating on the information you have rather than the idea that you could have potentially more uncertainty. And we know there are two big dates. There's going to be April 2nd. Well, I would say like there's a few dates in a row. April 1st is when we see that there's going to be a slowdown of the pace of quantitative

tightening from the Fed, which is going to be hugely important because that's going to introduce more liquidity into the system. There's going to be then the tariff announcement, but then the EU is also going to have a tariff announcement sometime in mid April as well. So we do have those kind of three dates, plus the first week of earnings, I think is going to tell us a lot about how much actual consumer demand there is because so far, I think people have been really concerned about the survey data, but the reality is that the hard data, we don't have a ton of it. So I think people are also waiting to see what the actual earnings look like from a lot of these companies, what their forecasts are. And I think that will

also probably determine whether we've actually reached the bottom of the bottom of the bottom, or if there's a little bit more to go. Yeah. What I hear is that the crypto market is still pretty inextricably tied to what's happening in the macro

and still looking for certainty to get the next move. I mean, Andrew, is that kinda how you're still framing it? Cause I still just nothing but good get the next move. I mean, Andrew, is that kind of how you're still framing it? Because I still just nothing but good news in crypto still. Well, there's, you know, Bitcoin in particular has become very, very tied to TradFi assets and TradFi narratives because there are huge massive TradFi hands that exist associated with Bitcoin now.

So yeah, there's going to be a watching the wires, watching what the FOMC does, watching what Trump has to say, watching what macro news is associated with. There's gonna be movements. It's interesting that Thursday, Friday of last week, you know, Bitcoin moved, just didn't do anything. It was 84,000 basically.

Yeah, it basically flatlined at 84,000 for almost 72 hours. And, you know, the point that I made was just a couple sentences on X. I just simply said, don't get bored with Bitcoin price action. Just don't get bored with it. And do something that you may regret. Don't get bored and say, I'm bored. I'm going to do something with my Bitcoin position.

And the next thing you know, it bounced immediately to 88 change. Not know, not the biggest move in the world, but again, don't get bored. And so, you know, maybe that's the upshot here. There may not be an enormous amount of news to talk about today, but Bitcoin doesn't read the papers. Bitcoin doesn't scan the internet for news to associate itself with. Bitcoin just is. And so, you know, whether it's Michael Saylor and his movements and his, you know, gymnastics that he's doing with traditional financial levers and pulleys, whether it's perpetual strife, or whether it's perpetual strike, or whether

it's something else, you know, supposedly there's something else that he's got under his sleeve that at some point will be announced. Whatever it happens to be, it may be interesting and it may grab headlines. Bitcoin will react to it because he's a significant player at this point, given owning a half a billion Bitcoin. But at the same time, the overarching theme and has been for its entire lifecycle is Bitcoin is going to eventually go higher, irrespective of the headlines, whether good or bad.

So act accordingly. Let's talk about Sailor. OK, so obviously, David, we have this new offering, which is, as I said, perpetual strife, the SDRF, or the irony. But it's completely a cash dividend, basically. I mean, you get 10% on your money. There's really no Bitcoin involved.

And that's obviously based on some sort of performance metric and couldn't possibly be guaranteed, right? Because obviously, if Bitcoin goes down massively, it would be very hard to pay people a 10% dividend on their cash, but still seemingly very popular and they're still able to buy a ton of Bitcoin. I mean, I guess the question is, is this getting to be too much? I mean, how many more instruments, how much more demand can there possibly be? When has MicroStrategy basically run out of ways to buy Bitcoin or find dry powder?

Yeah, I think this was one of the more complex ones. Even having worked in finance for a while, I still had to sit there and think through all the conditions that are tied to this new offering of like, okay, these are junior bonds, but still senior to common stock. I don't think it ever has to be paid back, by the way. I think that's part of the deal when you hand them this cash. It does pay, as you mentioned, that pretty high like cash dividend. And, you know, theoretically you could convert it into common stock, I believe, with this one. And so, I mean, there's,

there's a lot to kind of think about if you're, you're kind of doing this, but I think, you know, this is something that I would have probably seen at the peak of, you know, the bull run, not kind of where we are right now, where Bitcoin is kind of just, you know, to be fair, holding in relatively well all things considered Um, but certainly not performing as well as we would have liked at this point um, but It seems that he's still able to kind of raise cash through these means and I think people are playing the long game here

Yeah, I agree that bitcoin is held in well when you actually look though Bitcoin on track for worst q1 closed since 2020 But analysts predicted q2 rebound that actually it doesn't feel that way. So I remember I remember your 2020 Yeah, so it was brutal, you know I think but when you look at fear and greed and things like that, we do have some negative sentiment I think you know largely because of all coins But I was actually kind of surprised that it's been that bad when you look at the metrics for the whole quarter. Well, it's the pace at which that drawdown happened,

happening in that tight quarter time frame. 2020 was a more elongated drawdown that was much worse. But because it happens to land in Q1, that makes it relevant. What I would say is I'm reminded of CZ's tweet from 2020, that I believe said, just wait until the headline that says Bitcoin crashes from 100,000 down to 85.

I mean, we're living that particular tweet, Bitcoin crashes from 100,000 down to 85. I mean, we're living that particular tweet, we're living that now meme in real time. And so, I will say to pivot a little bit from Bitcoin, maybe a little bit of news associated with BlackRock adding Solana to their money market fund. Anything that BlackRock does in crypto is very, very meaningful and should be not only talked about, but it potentially

should be acted upon. The reality is that BlackRock has become, Larry Fink himself has become a Bitcoin evangelist and BlackRock has become crypto evangelist. It's extraordinary. Every time they're in public, whoever it happens to be associated with their firm, they're talking about crypto. They're not even talking so, they're not using the term blockchain all that much in these moments. They're actually talking about crypto. They're talking about crypto assets.

talking about crypto assets. And it's their version of convincing their constituents to get long with them, obviously, get long crypto. It is as big and bigger a movement than what Sailor is doing over the long term, no doubt about it. The other thing that they're doing, I don't know if you saw this news, but BlackRock launches Bitcoin ETP in Europe

following US success. So finally expanding beyond the United States, EuroNext Paris, extra EuroNext Amsterdam on Tuesday, marks BlackRock's first introduction of crypto-backed ETPs outside North America. I don't think there's anything surprising or huge here, but very clear that BlackRock's not stopping. And I think that that's what's meaningful here.

David, I mean, you're obviously on the institutional side. I mean, do you think that we're going to soon start to hear about some of these bigger names participating that we've been waiting for? I saw a whole lot of a conjecture. Andrew was from you. That, you know, we going to have another micro strategy or someone much larger that's coming in and I've heard that

rumor multiple times. But I guess like is this are we finally going to see the promise of the Morgan Stanleys and the JP Morgan's maybe ramping up activity? I think so. I mean, we've actually ran a survey very recently where we talked to I think like, like 300, 400 different institutional entities. And we asked them how they want to participate in crypto markets, for example. And still, I think we saw in 2024, it was somewhere around 75% that invest via spot and ETFs, ETFs. That number has gone up for the 2025 year to around 87%. So you see a massive increase in people wanting

to participate in market through these vehicles. So I think that they are still very meaningful and we haven't seen a lot of these RAA slash these investment advisors necessarily allow their, you know, their representatives to actually speak to clients and advertise these clients. Some of these companies still do it only through like, you know, you have to ask them in order for them to actually offer to you. So I think that that probably will change. We are seeing that a lot of them have finished their due diligence, for example, and you know, some of that range from like, three months to a year for

different places. But I think now we're starting to see the inflow coming from these RIAs. But that said, like the way ETFs work in the US and Europe, I will say that, you know, these investment advisors use them differently in the US. ETFs are the main vehicle through which they create portfolio construction. It's not necessarily the case in Europe. So I still tend to follow the US market when it comes to the flows and their impact on markets. There, you know, the rumor kind of swirling around that there's going to be a larger corporate entity, larger than strategy that ends up, you know, putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

That, that chirping has got a little bit louder and you know there's you know without naming what I've heard you know I'll throw some names out there like whether it's Metta whether it's Dell or whether it's some others you know at some point the you know the movement the corporate balance sheet movement associated with Bitcoin is going to turn into more than a movement. At some point, it will switch to a must have. It's just a question of the scale of that must have.

As has been discussed a lot in the space, having Bitcoin on your balance sheet adds a plus plus to the overall performance of your stock. I mean, that's just absolutely the truth. It avoids short sellers in a big way because they have a difficulty shorting something with Bitcoin on their balance sheet. They don't understand it and how to treat it. And then secondarily, it adds some level of street cred with a, you know, a portion of your customer base, and that's helpful as well. I will say that the

rumor mill associated with this is not associated with GameStop. That's not a big enough entity. Also you know because strategy and micro strategy and Sailor lives in our silo, our Bitcoin silo. Micro strategy is not a massive company. It's a fairly small entity. And so, you know, a Dell or a Meta or something like that, that is a measurably larger by a factor of 10 at minimum of a company like strategy. So yeah, I would expect that in the coming months. And you know, we may be bereft of headlines today, but that's not always the case with

Bitcoin. Something like this would adjust the narrative again to the upside. I mean, are those the names that we're looking at here? Meta? Yeah, Dell. Apple, Dell. Are these the people that could be buying Bitcoin quietly?

You were very specific. Now you gotta find the tweet, but you were like, not GameStop, right? Yeah, right. No, it's not GameStop that I'm hearing and talking about being told. And oftentimes, when I send out fairly cryptic stuff like that,

it's coming from legal folks associated with the world of Bitcoin, ETFs, that have to be involved in the policies associated with adding Bitcoin to a balance sheet or approving a sale of some sort or a purchase of some sort. In the corporate world, this type of stuff has to be approved.

It has to go through approval process. Boards have to get on board. So yeah, it's a thing. And at some point, it will happen. It's just a question of what entity of size takes the next step. Michael Dell has been fairly, not necessarily overwhelmingly vocal about Bitcoin, but he's nibbled around the edges, no doubt, in a public way. So, I want to switch topics here and ask David a question. We have all of these potential altcoin ETFs coming. Slana, XRP, Doge, you name it. Trump literally, you know, theoretically Trump literally will, you know, theoretically could see ETS filed for everything. Who's buying these? What's the what's

the prognosis for these? I have a funny feeling they won't be hugely popular, at least initially, I would think we'd see indexed ones maybe be popular, but I've gotten some pushback on that. But do we need I mean, Ethereum has been fine. Maybe I think it's actually been good. People just view it in the lens of the Bitcoin ETFs, which is unfair. But like who's buying a Doge ETF? Yeah, I think all of the things need to be seen relative to how Bitcoin performed. Because if you look at the ETF, the flows there were fairly decent. I mean, for something that launched in July of last year, like I think they got somewhere around like

three to $4 billion worth of inflows, which pretty decent. I mean, like you remember the gold ETF back in 2004, the first year they only gained around $3.8 billion, which in 2025 terms, still around like 5 billion. It's not like, it's not a bad number, but like that was our benchmark before and just Bitcoin just blew right past that. I mean, like 10 X over. So everyone's kind of now expecting every ETF to kind of launch in the same fashion.

And it's like, no, well, if you look at market caps, look at the way like, you know, like some of these like, grayscale kind of entities, for example, kind of like held in trust, for example, kind of operated. Like you have to look at everything else after Bitcoin as a fraction of that Bitcoin number. So I think that's kind of what we can expect, but certainly I wouldn't expect the same kind of flow to kind of come in.

It depends on the market environment. It depends on like when it's launching, who's launching it. So there's a lot of variables. Yeah. I mean, I guess my, another way to frame that since you're obviously deep in this world, like, do you hear chatter that institutions are interested in other individual assets beyond Bitcoin and maybe ETH, are they even asking?

So many of the new entrants on the institutional side are still pretty anchored to Bitcoin. Maybe ETH, maybe Seoul at the margin, but honestly, it doesn't go very far because I mean, we have time theoretically to like research all this stuff, but they don't this, you got to keep in mind that, you know, this isn't 90% of their portfolio, this is a single digit percentage of it. So like, they can't spend that much time on it, because they have to worry about their, their, you know, greater allocations, which means they don't really be or far from like the blue chip names in the space.

Well, the difficulty is, is that, you know know think if you're if you're bitwise you know as an organization and you're going out and you're having you know conversation after conversation after conversation with RIAs, financial advisors you know they're doing the work at the ground level right so easy conversation to have about Bitcoin as it relates to its narrative. A little bit more difficult with Ethereum, OK, they figured that out. So inflows have leveled out and are OK.

What are the narratives associated with Solana, H-Bar, Doge, and some other assets? How do you create a compelling narrative that says, hey, $2 billion RIA team, this is why you should allocate capital to the XRP ETF? How do you create what's the narrative there other than maybe you should have some exposure in case it goes up? Yeah, I don't want to get in trouble with the XRP

army because it's but in this specific case, even verse in H bar or salon or something which is entirely token based. I think an RIA would have an easier time selling ripple stock exposure than XRP token or ETF in some way, shape or form. Because there's two other you know, you can get exposure to the actual company, which maybe is easier for an investment professional to understand then what the token does. And that's my point is that the narratives there,

again, the narrative with Bitcoin digital gold, simple, easy, the narrative with Ethereum, it's the new internet or something, I don't know. But then after that, it begins to break down a little bit as to how are you selling a compelling narrative that says allocate capital as a percentage into this one asset entity ETF. That gets fairly difficult. And by the way, you know, at the wealth management level, that's where the trillions of dollars of actual retail assets live, right? Again, here in our crypto silo, yeah, we've got a couple trillion in change,

but you've got trillions of dollars at these wealth management assets across the globe. So I always come back to the bitwise idea of you're standing in front of a group of you know 15 guys that have their hands on a couple hundred million in client assets each and they're a group that equals 2 billion. What does that narrative look like for an H-Bar, an XRP, a Solana, a Doge, whatever it happens to be? It's hard for me to find. It's hard for me to make sense of. Yeah, I think there will be a future state where index products

are going to be the norm, just like inequities, because I don't think that many of these RIAs are doing the research of 500 companies either, but they kind of say like pick individual stocks, right? I mean, most people passively invest in some sort of index, whether it's a, you know, and so like, if you can't get your average person with a 401k or institution to be like, I want to buy Nike, you know, like you, I would, they just want the S&P, then how do we get people to say, I want an H-bar and it's nothing against these individually. I just think that the farther we get down the not Bitcoin or even Ethereum curve, it's just,

they have never even heard of it. No, but the mentality there is, I wanna get the systematic risk exposure to US equities. I wanna get systematic risk exposure to Asian equities or European equities. It's not necessarily like, I wanna get specific exposure to Nvidia, you know, like, I think that that mentality will shift as our space matures as well. And

then they'll say, Okay, cool, cool, cool. I don't want to just, you know, just buy Bitcoin, but I want exposure to meme coins and infrastructure and defy and deepen. So just put that on the basket and give it to me, you know, like that moment will come and ergo where has black rock pointed associated with this conversation? They have their, they have their, they have their Biddle portfolio, right? And what has happened with that Biddle portfolio? It's gone from 500 million to over a billion in the last few months.

Oh, by the way, it hasn't done that just because those assets have gone up to X. That's not the case at all. So point being is the basket, the opportunity to index this stuff. I absolutely agree with David here that the indexing ETFs over the longer term will be a bigger play. Again, even BlackRock's done that where they're including their Bitcoin product into different versions of their portfolio products across their own line and offers to institutional clients. So that's where we're headed. It's why I wonder, you know, if you're out there talking about an individual, you know, HBAR ETF, like where does that go? I mean, what's the reasoning behind supporting it? I don't know.

I should be clear. I think we're in an amazing place that we're having this conversation. I just question if we're in the place where the demand will exist yet. But if that narrative change and that demand does arrive, it will be incredible that these products exist. David, before I let you go, I just want to give a very brief update on what you're thinking about the market in general.

Right now, obviously, as I said, we've had the worst quarter since 2020 for Bitcoin, but still $87,500 Bitcoin on March 25th, 2025 seems really good to me, especially going back a year or even seven or eight months. And altcoins have obviously languished. So I mean, let's assume we get some sort of macro clarity. What do you think the rest of this cycle or the coming year may likely look like? Yeah, I came into the year moderately optimistic and that view fell flat on its face. So I got that wrong.

But of course, trying to reevaluate this, I'm trying to think, do I stick with that constructive view or do I let it go and just kind of like shift into neutral? Like what do I take for the next quarter, for example? And you know, like after a lot of like soul searching, definitely thinking about how the macro markets are going to develop. I still remain constructive. In fact, I think that probably if this isn't the low, I think we're going to get the low sometime in the next few weeks and that'll be the low for the year.

And once we get that, I mean, like that's what will be the opportunity to see new highs later this year, whether that's going to be in the second half, whether that will be sooner. I think that's going to, we have to watch. But I don't believe that the environment, the macro environment itself, isn't conducive to this. I think that people are kind of being scared by the idea of like, Oh, are we going to see a recession or this? I don't believe in those things. I think that probably we will get a soft patch and it will be fine. But a lot of the positive fiscal developments are going to happen later in the year in terms of like tax cuts, in terms of deregulation,

not to mention that there are a lot of secular trends still in place coming from AI and other things that are like contributing to productivity that I think are going to be there for in a multi-year kind of phase that I think are still going to be there. And if the Fed is going to continue increasing liquidity, because it's all about liquidity, and liquidity just came down over the course of like almost all of 2024, but really kind of hit like, starting in like July of last year, and like we just basically caught up to that trend. Now that we're seeing that liquidity is coming back, I think that we could be in for much better markets, probably in the quarters ahead. I mean, I know, Raul, Paulo says it, but many do that, you know, Bitcoin price or asset prices sort of lack liquidity by three

months or something. So you know, you see sort of that ramp up up and it takes a few months to get it through the system and then all of a sudden assets start rising. It did feel like we were extremely hyperbolic about the drop though as a community and across the globe you know for even a 10% correction in the stock market. It feels like everyone's on a razor's edge of like expecting the next depression. Maybe it's just because we've been hearing about the incoming recession that hasn't or maybe has happened, you know, for the last few years, it didn't happen that people are just so skittish that every drop feels like the end of the world.

Yeah, I mean, there are the two words that I think people are most afraid of is like, number one recession and number two, if people understand it, the fear of stagflation. And I think based on what the Fed said in the meeting last week, a lot of people started to say, well, it was stagflation and possibility given that the projections for growth coming down inflation and coming up. And I don't believe that's a firm possibility. I don't think we've moved away from this inflationary trend, for example, but it's hugely important to understand this because if you get this right, if you get that macro view right, then you're set for the

rest of the year because really like in any given year, you're usually playing just like one or two big macro trends. And like that is the key to like really getting your portfolio like right side up. So I do think that it's going to be hard for crypto to really stage a massive rally until like, traditional risk assets also are doing better. But if that's the environment we're in, which I do believe is going to happen soon, sooner rather than later, then I think that it's still behooves us to like need to have a position inside of crypto. Because once it starts running, you're not going to be able to catch it,

you're going to try to like, try to catch that low and like within a, like a few hours, it's going to like break like 20% higher. I'm just making up numbers, but you know, that's what we see. Awesome. Well, we kept you three minutes over time. I'm sorry. Um, actually it looks like I, I know you guys are having the Coinbase sort of conference in New York city in June.

I think I'm going to come up there. Looks like I know you guys are having the Coinbase sort of conference in New York City in June. I think I'm going to come up there. Hopefully we can get together in person, bringing a crew, covering it. We could do an interview in person. If they're listening, I think maybe some time with Brian for the first time ever, maybe. I don't have that level of influence, but yeah, definitely. No, I mean, it's supposed to kind of sort of happen. But I you know, I don't like to count my as my dad always said, you know, don't celebrate the check

tilts in the bank. Yeah. So yeah, I've actually never sat down with him. And I have a great question. I need to ask him about a friend of a common friend that we have in person to confirm a story. So that's all I really want. I don't want to talk about crypto. I just want to make sure that my friend is actually telling me the truth. But that's what we got for you there, David, man. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure to have you on the show. Andrew and I are going to continue on here for a couple

more minutes guys give David a follow and hopefully see you in June in person. Are you going to token or any other conferences in between then? I'll be in Paris blockchain week if you're gonna be there. I think that's in two weeks from now, yeah. I was supposed to, but actually just confirmed. I don't even know if I should say this either, but I'm supposed to interview Dana White

in Miami the same day, so I'm gonna do that. But I would have been in Paris otherwise, but yeah, Paris is an amazing conference. All right, David, I'm gonna let you go. Thanks, man. Thanks, guys. Look, Andrew, I remembered the scrolling thing at the bottom. Dude, that's fantastic.

You do good work. If Tillman was here, that picture that I just sent you would have made more sense, right? Trying to get it up on the screen. The photo that I sent you would make more sense, the three of us. But let's talk about Archipelago. Yeah, there it is.

You know, I mean, that would make more sense. I mean, after- Which one am I? You're definitely, you're definitely the, first of all, you're definitely the, I can't remember now, but the captain, your captain, gene, right? Because he's just trying to get through life.

He's got two jobs, trying to put his son through college. He wants to be a DJ, right? He wants to be a DJ. Tough out here, man. Tough out here. Anyways, let's talk about it. That was in context to you being like, hey man, you should bring up this tweet.

And I was like, I already got it, dude. Do you think I'm not on top of this? But holy crap, good job. bring up this tweet and I was like, I already got it, dude. Do you think I'm not on top of this? But holy crap, good job. Yeah, our algorithms and their executions are, they do exactly what we say that they do, meaning they're just way better than you are at attempting to trade. I mean, period into story. And the algorithmic executions, you're seeing them there in real time, to be able to top tick a green candle at 142 after buying at 128, 127, is, that's nearly impossible to pull off. And so if you're building a Solana position over time

Which a lot of people think that they should but at the same time they're leveraging Volatility to build that accumulation and generate cash yield that is best-case scenario for anybody That's attempting to trade these markets. They're difficult mark markets to attempt to trade because they're on 24-7. They never turn off. Some of these executions are in the middle of the night when you're sleeping or in the middle of dinner when you're having whatever it happens to be. There are three reasons why people should take real notice

of what we're doing. One, our products don't exist anywhere else. We don't have a competitor. These algorithms and the arbitrage strategy and everything that's going on here, there are no competitors to us. This is institutional level tools for retail. And by the way, these don't even exist

at the institutional level in crypto. You can't go to an OTC desk or an institutional desk and say, hey, I need to grab a couple of your algorithms and let's make those happen that that again that doesn't exist anywhere So the fact that we're giving you this for free and giving you an opportunity to use these tools with even small amounts of money When people actually go and do it their their minds are blown. They're like, I'm watching this happen, I'm watching these executions happen, and it's extraordinary.

Here's an interesting story about what we do and how we do it that I think will bring it home for people. The last three people that we've hired at ArchPublic in the last month, they started using our products, our algorithmic products on the crypto side. We're so blown away that they sent us emails and said, I've never seen anything like this. This is extraordinary. I want to be involved in something that I think is going to make a difference in some way. Do you guys have opportunities at your firm? at your firm. And we brought those folks on. So it is, you know, what we do and how we do it is something that you should take a real hard look at. And we're incentivizing people beyond it being free. So let's talk about that. We're

running a giveaway right now, where if you download our free Bitcoin algorithm, which by the way, our Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana algorithms are all free right now. If you download it and then you follow ArchPublic on X, try ArchPublic, you're gonna be in a giveaway to get two industry passes to the Bitcoin conference. You'll be invited to the meal that we have together. I've been at some meals with you guys.

Yeah, you've been at some meals. You know, I can't promise anything, but it's possible that Melker may make an appearance at that proverbial meal. It's so fun to eat food that Andrew pays for. I'm gonna be honest with you. Right. It's so fun.

Right. We may or may not have ordered the most expensive wine on the menu. Of course, of course, of course. Why not? In that moment, why not? Tillman wasn't even there so we could spend his money too. Right. Right. So we're doing a giveaway where if you follow us and you begin to use our product, you're going to get two industry passes. And by the way, industry passes are significant

stuff at the Bitcoin conference. You get to all three days. I love industry day because there's like, you know, 10% of the people. Yeah, there's 10% of people there and they're serious people. There's not 50,000 people and you're trying to get into rooms. So we're doing a giveaway, get involved in that giveaway,

get involved with us, use these products and experience what it is to, you know, reach your goals without having to make difficult decisions associated with fear and greed. What's going to happen next? Am I prepared for what's happened, going to happen next? Should I buy? Should I sell? All those conversations are gone because you have an intelligent algorithm that's making those decisions for you. Yeah, we love what we do and how we do it, and we want people to be involved. We want people to be able to benefit from it. So that's why we give it away for free.

Our concierge program also exists if you want to trade more capital. Yeah, or other assets. Yeah, I was going to say somebody asked a question, now I'm scrolling back to find it, program also exists if you want to trade more capital. Yeah, I was gonna say somebody asked a question, I'm scrolling back to find it. But they said, weren't these fellows promoting a different algo a few months back? What's the difference? Well, listen, we're a crypto show, and you guys are innovating and making new things. But all those are still crushing it behind the scenes. And a lot of people end up

participating in that. But at the time, it was trade station only. And it was trading effectively equities, right? And you've done the deal with Gemini, offered a free product and moving to crypto, which a lot of people watch here. It's still there. Yeah. So there's a reason for that too. The reason for that too is that our futures algorithms have a, you have to have a minimum of 10 K to get involved. Even on our $99 product, you have to have a minimum of 10K capital to get involved. Not everybody had that. With our Bitcoin algorithm or Ethereum and Seoul,

you can put $700 into your Gemini account and watch it work and buy $50 at a time, sell $20 at a time, right? So there's a larger community available to folks on the crypto side. Yeah. I just want to point out also, we showed the Solana performance has been insane, but in context of the fact that I just showed you guys that the last three months have been the worst quarter since 2020 for Bitcoin, specifically, running the Bitcoin algorithm, you're up 17% on your Bitcoin and earn 7% cash on the side in the last 60 days.

While Bitcoin has been chopping with extreme fear and panic in the market, this is just in the background earning you cash and more Bitcoin at the same time. So that is the question we get asked the most often when people are asking about our Concierge program because they're talking about more capital they're like well well you know does it beat buy and hold why don't I just buy it hold and so we put out a case study that goes four years back March of 21 until March of 2025

basically a full epoch and the point is is that, we beat buy and hold by two and a half times. There's 270 plus percent return versus 185 percent return. So there are extraordinary outcomes associated with this. And you're not just trading one algorithm. You have the ability to take the arbitrage strategy and the cash yield that it generates, put that into an intelligent accumulation strategy inside of the Bitcoin algorithm. Now you're taking what happens with the arbitrage strategy. You're funneling it back into intelligent accumulation.

It's buy more Bitcoin. Buy more Bitcoin here. Buy more Bitcoin here. Extraordinary stuff that you simply cannot find anywhere else. And it crushes by and hold. I mean, we get asked that question a million times, which is why we have tons of data that says, yeah, it destroys by and hold.

It absolutely does. Guys, you see there's a scrolling thing at the bottom. People were asking, where do I get it? And I'm super scrolling it. It's right there. It's like going across the bottom. It's so easy. I'm pushing it myself.

I would speed it up for you guys, but I don't want to like freak you out. But you can also read about it all in the description. Right? LOL, they ain't giving you the algo. Actually, what? Yes, we are. I mean, that's kind of the whole point.

We absolutely are giving you the algo. It's free. Instead of just firing off comments. If somebody asks, you know, how come it's free? So we get asked, why is it free? What's the back end? The reality is, is we think everybody should own Bitcoin. The free algo allows you to buy up to $10,000 worth of Bitcoin annually. That's not a huge number, but it is a huge number. That's a pretty huge number for most people. Yeah, that is a big number for most people.

And if you do that over a five-year period, that's $50,000 worth of Bitcoin that you were able to grab with an algo at prices that you wouldn't have been able to do for free. It's five years use it for free. So that's why we do it. Everybody should have access to Bitcoin and own some Bitcoin. And that's why we do it. I mean, the reality is like, and I said it before, but I've been working very closely with you guys since inception, right?

Like, this is like, I love you guys. I never would have put this all over the shows this often if it wasn't performing, but there was very constant feedback at the beginning. Like, I'm not rich enough and I don't trade equities. I don't have a trade station account. So we listened, you listened to what everyone said. You got on a crypto exchange, there will be more.

You added more crypto based products. You gave them dollar cost averaging, which they're more comfortable with in unique ways with more assets. And you made it affordable. Yeah, and we have more assets. I wouldn't be hating in the comments when they listened very clearly to the feedback and gave our audience specifically what they want

Yeah, and there's more assets coming again for free Next month there's gonna be four more crypto assets that we add and that that will will announce That that that people will love so you already get free for free that people will love. So you already get three for free. Can I do an idea? Go ahead. Can I do an idea? Yeah.

Like, I will talk about offline. But then like I cash and carry Algo once the, with doing basically what the institutions do. I know it's sort of habit, but being able to when futures going far into Contego, just press a button and buy the spot and short the future. And if you can imagine everybody else is making that's what we should do. As you can imagine, that is in the works.

As you can imagine, that's in the works. Has to be. I mean, that's the way that, A, that's why I've had outflows for five sustained weeks before last week because that closed. But you wouldn't have been closing it as well. But I mean, imagine like a retail product where you can do all the things. We always call it a hedge fund in your pocket, but you're giving them that trade, that would be sick.

Does Andrew still offer a demo, scheduling calendar? I guess I could check the site. Yes, I do. And I will tell you that through Thursday, it's completely booked. So you'd have to grab something on Friday. It's been extraordinarily busy over the past couple of months, because again, this product is very, very popular,

and people are getting their hands around how powerful it is. Again, this is not just a binary algorithm. This is an algorithm inside of algorithms. You can run five different versions of the algorithm at the same time. And so yeah, sign up, let's do a demo. Love to talk to you. Yeah, there you go Clint. Guys, that's archpublic.com down below.

I'm gonna be joining space is a little late today. As I told you, Andrew, I'm interviewing Charles Hoskinson in 15 minutes. It's been since 2022 since I've done that. If you guys haven't, by the way, been listening to like my long form, I, you know, it used to before I had, it's funny, before I even had YouTube or started doing daily shows, I had my podcast, it was like, you know, the long form hour long interviews. I mean, I now have to remember myself, but like, Sunday was Richard Tang, the CEO of Binance. Sunday before that was Sergey Nazarov from Link.

Before that, Dan Tapiera. Before that, Stani from Aave. Before that, Scare Mucci. Before that, Caitlin Long. I mean, there's, you know, short of a point-based CEO and the tall Gemini guys who we're talking to. Like, there's very few people who haven't been on even just in the past few months.

Well, and before that, you know, RFK Jr., right? I mean, you've been doing some serious stuff. You're the best. You're the best in the past few months. Well, and before that, you know, RFK Jr., right? Yeah. You've been doing some serious stuff. You're the best. You're the best in the business, no doubt about it. Hey, hey. Hey. Hey.

You're true. So I'm not the guy with the gun then. That would be bad. I'm just kind of the business guy. All right, guys, that's what we got. I gotta go. I'm gonna actually prep for this one. 12 minutes.

Nice. 12 minutes. I never prep for anything. I'm gonna prep for this. 12 minutes. Gotta get I never prepped for anything. I'm gonna prep for this 12 minutes I'm gonna get some questions in there. Alright guys check out arch public calm as it's scrolling right below Maybe you'll actually get a call with Andrew his very own self. Otherwise, see you guys tomorrow Thank you and goodbye sir.