The Wolf Of All Streets - Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness with Brock Pierce 2020 Presidential Candidate

Episode Date: October 20, 2020

Brock Pierce is running for president. As a child actor in some of Hollywood’s most recognizable 90s films, Brock learned how to work a room like a star and engage with adults in a meaningful way. After an endless string of successful tech ventures, Brock has focused on how he can best serve the American people - by building a new political party. Scott Melker and Brock Pierce further discuss painting the White House, the life of a child movie star, why he's running for president, the polarization of our nation, stepping into the political ring of fire, breaking free of left and right politics, a developing political evolution, being bullish on crypto, going face to face with the media giants, financing a presidential campaign, universal earned income, criminal justice reform, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and more. --- ROUNDLYX RoundlyX allows you to dollar-cost-average into crypto with our spare change "Roundup" investing tool, manage multiple crypto exchange accounts in one dashboard and access curated digital asset content and services. Visit RoundlyX and use promo code "WOLF" to learn more about accumulating your favorite digital assets when making everyday purchases and earn $4 in free Bitcoin. --- EQUOS Diginex is the first company with a cryptocurrency exchange to be listed in the US. That exchange, EQUOS, has been built to institutional standards, but is available to everyone. You can trade Bitcoin and Ethereum spot, as well as Bitcoin perpetuals, and get a 5% discount on all fees, by signing up using equos.com/wolf. --- CELSIUS With the Celsius app you can earn up to 15% APY rewards on over 30 cryptocurrencies. Have crypto but want cash? Celsius also offers the lowest cost loans against your crypto with interest rates starting at just 1% APR. Enter promo code WOLF when you sign up and get $20 in BTC! Users must transfer and hold at least $200 of any coin for 30 days to be eligible for the reward. --- If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with your colleagues & friends, rate, review, and subscribe.This podcast is presented by BlockWorks Group. For exclusive content and events that provide insights into the crypto and blockchain space, visit them at: https://www.blockworksgroup.io

I'd like to thank my sponsors, Celsius, Equus, and Round the X for making this episode possible. Stay tuned later in the episode for more info. What is up, everybody? I am Scott Melker, and this is the Wolf of All Streets podcast. Now, today's guest is an absolute legend. Having achieved stardom as a child playing roles in Mighty Ducks and First Kid, Brock moved on from acting and became an entrepreneur at the ripe young age of 16. With a fascination for technology, Brock went on to found and became an entrepreneur at the ripe young age of 16.

With a fascination for technology, Brock went on to found a plethora of internet companies employing hundreds of thousands of people along the way. Along his journey, Brock began to focus more deeply on philanthropy and began a new course to change the direction of our broken modern day political system. As everyone knows, it's a classic interview question to ask someone, hey, what would you do if you were president? And I can actually ask him that with confidence since he's running for president. Brock, I'm so excited to have you here on the show. Thank you for taking the time out of your insanely busy schedule, as you've told me. Well, I'm glad to be here.

I think it's important that the American people hear from our presidential candidates as much as possible. This pandemic has limited that. Our debates, as you may have seen yesterday, were not even the two major candidates on a stage together. And I'm glad to be here, glad to be able to share and answer whatever questions you have. Awesome. Well, before we get too deeply into it, once again, a reminder, this is the Wolf of All Streets podcast, where twice a week I talk to your favorite personalities from the worlds of Bitcoin, finance, trading, art, music, sports, politics, basically anyone with a good story to tell. This show is powered by Blockworks Group, a media company with over 20 podcasts in

their network. You can check them out at blockworksgroup.io. And if you like the podcast, follow me on Twitter, then check out my website, join my newsletter at the wolf of all streets.io. So now back to what's actually important here. So I have to ask, do you plan on painting the White House when you're president? And if so, what color? This is not a serious answer, but I'll give you an answer. You know, it definitely feels like we need some more color. And a lot of these buildings that are actually white, we based it upon, you know, what we saw in terms of relics and ancient buildings in places like Greece and otherwise, because they appeared white, but they weren't originally white. Most of these buildings did have color that faded over time. And then we tried to model after that. And so I think bringing a little bit more color into the world would be great.

Obviously, as an independent candidate, when you take the color red and blue and you put them together, I've got a fascination with that combined color, which is known as purple. But I like all the colors of the rainbow, all the colors in our spectrum of light. That's a great analogy. You're very good at this, obviously. That was as good of an off the cuff answer as I can expect. Well, if you love purple, does that mean that you like Prince? Purple rain. Awesome. Prince is my favorite artist of all time.

And I'm from Minnesota, which as is Prince. That's interesting. So he is the Minneapolis. So interesting. You touched on you grew up in Minnesota, but you were a famous actor as a child. How does a kid from Minnesota end up in Hollywood at that young age? So most people don't know this, but when I was growing up, I think Minneapolis, the Twin Cities, was the fourth or fifth largest market for actors. But it wasn't for film and television. It was commercials and print work because Minnesota has companies like Kellogg's, Target, Sears, General Mills. And all of these businesses at the time only hired locally, as well as the Minneapolis Twin City accent for national commercials resonated. People didn't want to

hear a heavy New York accent or a heavy Southern accent. And for whatever reason, that Minneapolis accent worked well for national commercials. And so I grew up from the age of three to 10 doing print and commercial work. My first memory in life takes place on a set at the age of three, making a commercial. I think it was for KCRW, which was don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys. And like a lot of other kids from Minnesota, I grew up playing hockey. And so when Disney filmed the Mighty Ducks in Minnesota, I was a shoo-in for a part. And I booked my first movie at the age of 10 playing Gordon Bombay or the main character in that movie in all the flashback scenes, which is how the movie opens up and sets sort of the premise for the whole thing. It's so interesting. So what was it like, I guess, having that

unconventional childhood? You know, we read about child actors, and I don't know if you were taken out of school, or if you went to private tutoring, or you were out of school when you were doing those things. And how do you think that that sort of shaped your entrepreneurship and your development, you know, before the career that you ultimately landed in? Yeah, so my childhood was, I'd say, fairly normal up until the age of, you know, call it 13. You know, I had to leave school to shoot or to go on auditions. But I generally I went to a public school in St. Louis Park, which is an innermost suburb to Minneapolis. But it was after Disney brought me to California at the age of 12 to shoot Mighty Ducks 2 that I moved to California just after turning 13. And that's when my life became, call it very unconventional, where I stopped going to normal schools. I started booking movie after movie after movie. And so I was moving around the world, moving around the country, making films for three to six months at a time, typically with a tutor, sometimes spending weeks or months

without any other kids. And my friends were directors and producers. You learned how to interact with adults. What's interesting is actually how I was successful. And a lot of parents come to me and they're like, oh, my kid wants to be an actor. What do you think? Is this a good idea? A bad idea? I said, well, I mean, in general, it's a great idea. What is that kid going to learn while being an actor? They're going to learn how to interview well. Going on auditions is like interviews and learning and doing multiple interviews a day or multiple interviews a week is just a life skill that will serve anyone really well. And you also get very good at, you know, taking rejection because almost every one of those interviews is going to result in you not booking the part. And these are both like just good things to, uh, to develop in life. And then I always

warn them now, if they become successful, there's all a host of problems that might emerge, but the odds of that are low. So I wouldn't worry about it. Um, and so I I've always encouraged it and to share something with you that I haven't shared with many people. Um, and this will, I think, give you some more insight. Um, I also grew up as a professional magician. And so I was very into coins and, and, and card tricks and things of that nature. And so when I would walk into auditions at the age of like 13 and 14, most kids would go in and say, hi, my name is, you know, my age is, and they read their lines and then they leave. I walked in and I'd say hello to the casting director and instantly

do a magic trick. And they're like, whoa, this is awesome. And then I would do another trick. And then next thing you know, we're talking for five, 10, 15 minutes. And they're like, oh, you've got to do your lines. We've got a bunch of people waiting. I'm like, trick. And then next thing you know, we're talking for five, 10, 15 minutes. And they're like, oh, you got to do your lines. We got a bunch of people waiting. I'm like, yeah. So I do the audition. We talk a little bit more and I leave. So most kids were in there for three minutes. I was in there for 10 or 20 or 30 minutes. And I was good enough. I might not have been the greatest actor, but at the end of the day, I was the only kid they could remember. So you made yourself memorable. You knew how to work a room early, which actually makes a lot of sense

that you would end up running for president and gives you a... It's funny. I mean, obviously one of your biggest movies was First Kid, right? And arguably we could say that probably makes you more qualified to be president than our present candidates.

Right? Yes, it is interesting. At 14, living in Washington, D.C. and Richmond, Virginia, making that movie where I'm playing the son of the president of the United States of America with Sinbad as my Secret Service agent. Also, I was just texting this morning, and I'll be giving a call shortly, is Timothy Busfield, who was West Wing. And Bill Clinton had a cameo in the movie as did Sonny Bono.

I actually got to spend some actual time in the Oval Office at the age of 14. Just a very, very interesting story. So let's talk about it. Why are you running for president? I mean, we can get back to all of the time in between because you've had like 20 lifetimes for most people in there. But let's get to the core of it. Why are you running for president and how did you end up here?

Well, I can summarize why I'm running for office in one word. It's ultimately love, love for this country, love for the American people at a time where I am deeply, deeply concerned for our collective future. This country doesn't feel like the United States right now. It feels like the divided politically, economically, while simultaneously facing real existential threats environmentally, technologically, pandemically, potential conflicts with foreign nations. Like, I really feel like we're doomed if we don't do something different. Albert Einstein is credited with this quote of the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. And that's what each one of these election cycles look like to me, left, right, left, right. But it doesn't feel like things get better, whichever side wins.

And I want to remind the American people that we are going to stay in this perpetual downward spiral until we start to stand up for what we believe in, until we start to vote our conscience. We keep getting tricked. Every election cycle of don't throw your vote away. There's this, I think it's in 1996, the Simpsons did an entire episode of this. Like an alien spaceship crashes into the Capitol and, you know, outcomes. And they're like, don't throw your vote away.

Meaning they've been using literally the same tactic. It's not even new material to continue to divide this nation. And I don't think things are going to change or get better until we start to vote our conscience. The lesson is to do what you believe is right, not to make decisions out of fear. And as each of us, you know, because we only have the power to change ourselves, but by being our best selves, by, you know, living our purpose, you know, voting our conscience, doing what we believe to be right, you know, we have the ability to inspire others. And I think that's the lesson for all of us. Do what you feel is the right thing.

And don't let fear drive your decision. Do you feel like an individual's vote truly counts at this point? And especially, I mean, now it's where, you know, we're weeks before the election and we're seeing 11, 12, 13 hour lines to get votes. I mean, it seems like, you know, for a lot of people, I would imagine, believe me, I believe voting is extremely important, but it seems almost like a futile effort for certain people in certain places. Well, I mean, the government is that thing that is supposed to serve us, but governs over us. It is very important that we participate in this process. And they try to make it something where you don't

want to get involved. I mean, 43% of eligible voters don't vote in the presidential election, either because they don't think their vote counts, or they're not inspired by the choices they have, or they've lost faith in the system. I mean, certainly this election is really calling into question the integrity of our, you know, our democratic process. But yeah, the future is going to happen to you or the future is going to happen with you. So let's get involved and create the future in which we all want to live. Remember, the Democratic and Republican parties are the minority.

70% of Democrats and Republicans are not happy with their parties right now, but they don't identify with the left. And so they vote for the right or they don't identify with the minority. 70% of Democrats and Republicans are not happy with their parties right now, but they don't identify with the left and so they vote for the right or they don't identify with the right so they vote for the left. Let's start focusing on that thing in the middle. We are the majority. By 2024, 30% of registered voters will be independents, meaning the moment we really want change, it will happen. And I think most of us are sensible and somewhere in the middle and would like to find a path forward together. And we have to find a path back to unity. It's interesting. I'm in my 40s. So, you know, when we were kids, obviously, we had the two party system and it wasn't so different, but it felt like there was

a level of respect and not this great divide. I'm wondering how we evolved to this point where it's become so insanely polarized and where we're in this sort of, I don't know how to describe it, post-fact reality, right? Where anyone can say anything, everybody gets passionate about it, becomes their single issue and they vote for that thing, whether true or not, right? Yeah, I mean, it's not just this election cycle. It's been getting worse. And what you've seen is just this polarization. I mean, you can see it basically when our government is voting in Congress,

just everything has become partisan and more and more partisan. You know, back in the day, people used to like be able to have conversations with dignity and respect. And know, back in the day, people used to like be able to have conversations with dignity and respect. And occasionally politicians would cross the aisle, you know, because you could actually engage in that sort of activity.

But things have become so polarizing, so partisan that they function as, you know, essentially single minds. And we have to break that up. And I think that it's going to come from something independent. You know, something new is going to emerge, you know, on on November 5th. You know, we're going to be announcing, you know, the party to end all party parties, you know, the the going away party, which is going to be really a platform.

I'm trying to build out all the infrastructure, not just for my campaign, but others. I'm looking for 100 candidates to support in 21 and 2022, up and down the ticket, local, state, and federal. And I'm building the infrastructure to support candidates to get into office, to directly represent their constituents free from the control of a political party. So when someone is called to run for office, you're like, okay, I'm going to go do this. I'm going to make a difference, right? If you've ever seen that movie Training Day, it's a little bit like that because you're like, oh, I got the best of intentions. But all of a sudden you're like, whoa, I guess this is going to take

money. Oh, and it takes infrastructure and a database and get out the vote things and, you know, ballot access and a platform. And very quickly, you're like, oh, how am I going to do this? But then you have to join a political party. And the deal when you join a political party is it's no longer about what you think. Your opinion no longer matters. Your job is to represent, you know, and walk the party line. And so I think that's not what the founders of this country intended. They wanted a government of, for, and by the people. And so I'm looking for doctors, teachers, engineers, stock traders, computer scientists, entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, whatever it is,

because I want to help put people in office that will directly represent the constituents, say what they think, doing what they believe to be right, free from the control of a political party. We only need maybe five people in Congress, a few people in the Senate, and then that can become the forcing function, that magnetic force that brings everyone back to the table again. And if we don't find a path back to unity, I think we're on a path to something like civil war. It pains me to say this as a potential reality, but it feels like that bad right now. I am that concerned, which is why

I'm making the sacrifice. Running for president is like the, it's the ultimate sacrifice. You have to be prepared to give up everything you have, potentially your liberty and even your life. This is not something you just do lightly. You're stepping into the ultimate ring of fire, you know, basically inviting hell to rain down on you, having every decision you've ever made in your life questioned. There's a reason why so few people do this, even though many people I'm sure are as concerned as I am.

I'm not alone seeing what I see. And I know I'm not alone feeling what I feel. It's not a job I would want. Yeah, I can tell you this is not, I would not advise it for anyone, but I do hope that my doing this inspires others, you know, and gives you that courage necessary to do something. You know, just look at like our friends, you know, we have certain expectations from our friends. You know,

we expect our friends to have values and principles, you know, to be honest, to operate with integrity, you know, don't lie, cheat and steal from us. We even expect this from our coworkers and generally even from other businesses that we do business with. But somehow we don't expect this from our politicians. It matters more than anything. We chalk it up. We're like, oh, but it's just politics. It's politics. It's politics. That's normal.

You know, of course, they all lie, cheat and steal. No, no, that is not OK. The system that governs over us needs to be held to the highest bar possible, not the lowest bar. This is so important, so important that people step up that are showing up as civil servants here to do a tour of duty or two to serve the American people. This is what we need right now. And I hope that my doing this inspires some of you to take a look and say, maybe I should run for office. And by the way, city council, those elections probably matter more than presidential. And normally only eight to 10% of the people vote in that election. Over 90% of eligible voters are not participating. And I can make it's much more, probably more realistic to affect change at a local level. And local politicians are the ones who actually determine the daily

realities of our lives and who actually legislate on the things that probably matter to us most. So it's interesting for you to say that, be cognizant of it, because you don't hear that many people who are running on a national stage say, hey, local politics kind of matter more than national politics. But I believe that. I mean, it all matters, right? Up and down the ticket. You know, the presidential platform just gives you the biggest, you know, microphone, right? It gives you the ability to deliver a message that can be heard not just nationally, but internationally. But yes, at a local level, it matters. And I encourage more of us to get involved. You know, if we want this country to be the country I think most of us ultimately want, it requires a bunch of

us stepping up, stepping up to the plate, you know, no longer biting our tongues and being silent. And it's not what we're against, right? So much of what's happening in the country is what are you against? What are you against? It's about what do you stand for? What do you stand for? And as more of us stand up for what we believe in, you know, this is when, you know, we'll get the United States of America that we all want to live in again. Yeah, that's really, really interesting. I have to ask, so you were a late entry, obviously, to the election to some degree. I mean, you know, these machines have been running for years, months, decades, and you came in and

you're not on the ballot in a number of states. So obviously, it seems like you're making more of a statement than actually trying to win this time. Maybe that's not a correct perception. But is this more about you're running so that you can then build the platform and lead the way for all of these other elections and then potentially have a legitimate shot at the presidency four years down the road? Yes. And so I'm 39. I turned 40 in under a month. And so this is just the beginning. Time is on my side. And as I said, I'm looking to support, I'm building out all the infrastructure for the future. And again, this isn't about me. This is about all of us, right? As I like to say, I'm not running against anyone. I'm running with and for everyone. And so this is building out the infrastructure, call this, this is the dry run and getting things prepared for 2021 and 2022. And then I will be running again in 2024. And so that's what that's about, hoping to create a political movement. You know, I'd go so

far as to almost say a political revolution, because I think that's what we need right now. I think evolution is perhaps the better way of describing it. But, you know, trying to break us free of the limiting two choices that we have. I mean, even our own government knows that two-party or two-part systems don't work. As a truism, our government created antitrust laws stating this, knowing this, saying that we can't have systems of two. It leads to collusion and monopolies. I mean, literally our own government admits this as a truism, as a matter of fact. And so I think it's important that we start to bring forth this middle of the road, I think, movement that is more representative of all of us. It needs to be something new so that we can all feel like we were part of the process, that we can all feel

like we have ownership in it. But something can happen in this election, just to be clear. It's not likely. There's a low likelihood, but you don't have to win the election to become president. So the way that the election works is to win in the generals, you need to win a majority of the electoral college vote. The key word being majority, meaning if the two parties were to tie, no one wins. That would be 269 to 269. This is what happened in the year 1800, Thomas Jefferson versus Aaron Burr. Or if a third party such as myself were to win a single state and it's a close enough race, or if I were to win, just call it some

electors, you know, bringing faith to the faithless, and it were a close enough race, again, no one wins. So what happens if no one wins the election? This is a 12th Amendment issue. The top three candidates, based upon their electoral college vote, are then given to the house of representatives, not the democratic house, but the house where each state gets one vote along with the district of Columbia. And then of those top three candidates, whoever gets 26 votes becomes the next precedent president. And it is conceivable that a compromise could be reached. And the third place candidate could end up as president. The

last time this happened was in 1824. And the second and third place candidates did collude. So Andrew Jackson, who was in first, did not become president. Roundthex.com is one of my favorite companies in the entire crypto space. What they do is take all your small purchases and round them up to the nearest dollar and invest that spare change into any of over 30 crypto assets of your choice. They integrate with your favorite exchanges so that you can view various exchange balances all in one dashboard and round up into different assets all at the same time. And they do all this without ever holding any of your Bitcoin. This is by far the best way to dollar cost average into Bitcoin.

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What are the key messages that you're trying to deliver to your potential voters yeah so i'm going to take one big step back to start and just elevate the conversation all the way up to like what's wrong in the country because and then we'll drop down into policy issues how is it that you know as a systems designer as someone that studies system certainly everyone in crypto will get this what we incentivize is generally what we get and we know that incentives matter and so as a nation what have we been incentivizing how it has as a nation have we been incentivizing? How has, as a nation, have we been measuring our success? How have we held ourselves accountable? Historically, it's been by growth. Growth or GDP. The problem with

growth is it assumes that we have infinite resources, which we've known for a while, we don't have. And so if you didn't like what was going on here, you moved west. And if you didn't like what was going on here, you move west. You know, now maybe I'm in Alaska, you move north. But one of the problems are when there's nowhere left to go is we try to grow into each other's pockets, right? You know, for me to win, you have to lose this scarcity sort of mindset, which creates so much conflict. Another problem with growth is it doesn't differentiate between positive and negative growth, meaning the American people being sick creates growth. Giving people treatment rather than cures creates growth. Locking people

up in prison creates growth. Forest fires and hurricanes create growth. So the question is, what is it that we want to incentivize? I think we need to rethink how we measure our success as a nation. The founders of this country had a very powerful intention for us, that being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What if we started to measure our success by life? Did you know that life expectancy in this country is in decline despite all the advancements in medicine, science, and technology? What if we started to measure our success by life expectancy? Policy would change. The private sector would change. Our air would become clean. our water would become clean, we wouldn't be consuming toxic foods, the health, which is the real wealth of this nation would improve almost

certainly if that's what we incentivize, if that's how we elected our government officials, and if that's how we held them to account. The next is liberty. We're supposed to be the land of the free, but we have more people in prison than any other country in the world. We clearly need police reform. I believe in law and order, but we need police reform. You know, right now our cops arrest as many people as they can to get a bigger budget, to hire more cops, to arrest more people, to get a bigger budget. And it's called, it's just growth. It's blind growth because that's how we measure success. In our government, we have this idea of use it or lose it. So your budget gets increased. And if you don't spend it, you don't

get it the next year. I mean, just talk about perverse incentives. You know, in business, we know if you come in under budget, you get a bonus and probably a promotion. Like this is, the problem is it's just blind growth. This is, you know, how do we measure our success? So we should be the land of the free. What if we measured our success by our liberty? I think this is important because our liberties are under threat. And then lastly, happiness, right? The pursuit of happiness.

What if we measured our success by the happiness of our people, right? And this would get people focused on the things that matter. So like if you followed me for a while, you know that I say that a billionaire isn't someone with a billion dollars, but someone who's positively impacting the lives of a billion people. I don't measure my success by what I have,

but by what I give, because I view life kind of like a game, right? The game of life. And many people are just focused on wealth accumulation as the metric of success. As someone that by most people's measurements is financially successful, I would tell you that that doesn't ultimately bring happiness. And I think that we're a little lost as a nation because again, we're not focused on the right things. And so I went into the option menu you know of the game of life and I said how am I going to measure my success you know to some extent it's choose your own adventure and I think that we need to be

rethinking this at an individual level and at a national level and these are the sort of game-changing ideas that I think we should be discussing if we want to upgrade the operating system of the United States of America. This is where America 2.0 will come from, because one of the main things we're lacking is vision. You know, we need visionary leadership that's like, where are we trying to go? You know, the reason we keep running in circles is because we don't really have a vision for this country until we say, this is the destination for the nation, or here's what we collectively agree we want to be when we grow up. You know, we're going to keep running around in circles. And so I think we need some

big visionary game changing ideas. I can get into more of those. But let's take a step back into, you know, let's double click, I guess, and get into some policy stuff. I'm going to talk about some policy ideas that you're not going to hear about from any other candidate to start, and then we can discuss the things that might be normal. But the U.S. dollar, the U.S. dollar is the foundation of our nation's economy. The U.S. dollar's reserve status in the world adds about 20 to 30 trillion dollars of value to our economy if something were to happen to that the impact on all of our lives all of our businesses and all of our institutions would be drastic massive and the US dollar status in the world is at risk

and it's under threat it's at risk because of our fiscal policy and national debt, right? We're eroding the trust, the faith and confidence in it. And then take a look at, many of you know, I started the U.S. digital dollar back in 2014. That system is doing $10 trillion a year in transactional volume. That framework is now being utilized by governments around the world to pilot using technology to enhance their currency. And China is like miles ahead of everyone with the Chinese digital one. And I think that we need people that are willing to discuss this and understand what to do. You know, I also don't think our government should have a monopoly on currency. You know, I think right now we need plan A, plan B, and plan C. I think

that our government is making a lot of mistakes in terms of how it's regulating, call it blockchain and technology. It's not embracing innovation, it's stifling it. And I think we want as much of that innovation happening here in the country as possible, because we don't know what the future holds. I'm very much here to do everything in my power to support the U.S. dollar to the best of my abilities, while at the same time making sure that we're prepared for anything and everything that could happen. So interesting. We talk about, you know, central bank digital currencies all the time on this show and the

points that you raised. Simply going digital doesn't solve the policy problems, right? I mean, it can be more efficient, but if it's controlled by a government, a digital dollar could be equally as inflationary as a fiat currency, correct? Yeah. So remember, technology is amoral, right? It's a tool. How we use it is what matters. And so a digital dollar could look very much like the digital one. Or if we care about things like liberty, it could be designed very differently as a tool that, you know, is serving the liberty and the privacy of the American people. How we design it matters because you can design it many different ways.

Of course. Which is why we need the right leadership that has an opinion that is looking to uphold the rights that we hold dear and making sure that that system, if and when it's designed, which I think we can all say it will, is designed in the right way that preserves our right specifically to liberty. Because one could even argue that a digital dollar under the present system would violate our rights and liberties more because we would inherently lack the privacy of using cash. All of our transactions would be public. So I mean, this could literally go either way. Yes. I mean, it could be designed like a Monero or Zcash as well.

Right. Right. Which I'm saying, when we talk about it, there's many different flavors. And the question is, what flavor of a digital dollar do we end up with? And I believe in upholding, you know, the rights that we hold dear. And my design, if I were doing this, is something that would preserve, you know, our freedoms and our privacy as the founder of this nation. So where do the existing cryptocurrencies fall into that plan? Obviously, everybody who's listening to this has at least a superficial interest in Bitcoin specifically, and probably a love for it. And there's plenty of people who think that Bitcoin could be a global reserve

currency. I definitely would not necessarily go that far. But in the thought process of creating this ideal digital dollar, where does Bitcoin fall in? Well, right now, Bitcoin is a store of value, right? Bitcoin in its current form couldn't be a global currency because it's not scalable fast enough, cheap enough. Right now, it looks more like gold 2.0. It looks like a store of value more than anything else in its current form. I'm not saying that the future wouldn't be different, but it looks like gold 2.0. And at a time where confidence in the global financial system is waning, people are looking for alternative asset classes, you know, looking for alternative stores

of value. I mean, precious metals are performing well. Crypto, I'm clearly obviously very bullish. I'm still chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation and I've done lots and lots of things. And so when I talk about plan A, plan B, plan C, plan A is to protect the U.S. dollar and do what we can from a policy perspective to ensure trust, faith, and confidence in it, as someone that actually understands how important it is to our way of life right now. Then there's plan B, which is what are the other things that the government could be doing?

Or maybe that's plan B is Bitcoin. And then the plan C that might be other cryptocurrencies. I think that we need to maintain an open mind and whatever it is, we need to make sure that that innovation that may lead to something different is happening here. It has to be happening in the United States. We have to be creating the regulatory clarity and the sandboxes to permit the innovation to occur here.

This country historically has been the capital of innovation. And I think it's important we stay that way. We are living through the fourth industrial revolution, and we've got a lot of problems. The good news is that innovation is the answer to our problems. Our 21st century problems have 21st century solutions. And so I'm really concerned by what regulators are doing. You know, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail and they tend to be focused on the negative and not the positive. And they tend to be too focused on enforcement rather than, you know, nurturing, you know, innovation. I think we all agree we don't want bad actors, right? I don't think that's really a debate amongst most people. But too often that becomes just the focus. They're looking at these, you know, isolated,

limited use cases, and then making decisions that ultimately prevent a lot of the important things from happening. And you can't stop it, right? Change is a constant. And so the question is, how do we adapt, you know, to it? How do we participate with it? And knowing it's a tool, you know, where is it that we're hoping to go, which is why I think we need visionary leadership that understands technology, that has their finger on the pulse, that has the foresight, and knows how to navigate the road ahead. It feels like one piece of good news, because I've been in Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and Idaho in the last week leading up to Alaska. And I've been meeting with state legislators in all four of them. And I've just been blown away by these state legislators. I mean, Wyoming has become the capital of innovation in the US. The first vote to be cast, the first ballot cast in Utah was cast on Monday from a mobile phone. And it was the first ever vote on a blockchain for a presidential candidate in the general election that just happened. Fox News reported on it this morning. And so like

this stuff's happening. And what I'm seeing on a state level gives me great hope. These state legislators are embracing innovation and recognizing that they have to adapt to an ever-changing environment. And they are inviting companies. One of the executives on the Kraken team has been traveling this last week and sitting in these meetings. And it's like, look, Kraken a five to $10 billion business has just opened up and has moved a meaningful amount of its business to Wyoming. Look at Cardano and what they're doing in Wyoming and thousands of new companies have been incorporated in Wyoming because of the 19 laws they've passed.

And so as states are seeing the positive impact that embracing innovation or the future can have, like we're reacting. So I am very hopeful based upon what I've seen from state legislators. And the nice thing about these state legislators are they are not like career politicians. You know, most of them have like a really interesting story. They've gotten involved. They don't make much money and they're really showing up because they care. And so there is hope. Yeah. State legislators just generally aren't career politicians. They're people with jobs who travel to the Capitol every once in a while to legislate. Right. And that's probably how it should be. We see, obviously, with national politics, term limits are obviously one of the biggest problems, probably with the entire government, because people get there and they never stop campaigning.

They never stop running for election. They never stop raising money. If you're a congressman, the day you get to Congress, you start calling people and asking for money for your next campaign, right? Yeah. Campaign finance reform is, I mean, the system is flawed. You know, it's just not designed right. Another analogy I like to use is if you're a farmer, right? Imagine this is what we're typically doing. You're just planting seeds, planting seeds, planting seeds, planting seeds, planting seeds, never pruning, never harvesting, never pulling the weeds. Just it's basically overgrown. It's grown out of control. It's back to growth, you know, as the wrong unit of measurement. We need to become more mindful and more conscious.

So I agree with you. It's amazing seeing what's happening out West in particular, especially in Wyoming. You have settled in Puerto Rico, correct? Yeah. I mean, I have wings, so I get around. I have an interesting new school that I bought in Washington, D.C. And it looks like I'm probably getting a ranch in Wyoming, a ski house in Utah, because what I've seen from these state legislators is just so impressive that I want to be there to be able to help. You know, I normally only do jobs that no one else is doing. Like, I'm normally the person trying to do something first, show people how it's done. I'm like a, like a doula for creation. And once the birth has happened, I'm typically off to the next thing. And that's what I've been doing for years,

which is why I've been involved in so many of these sort of innovative events on the forefront. And I really got, I stopped kind of spending time educating government around 2016, because I thought, you know, enough people were doing it. And what I've seen as I've gone and met with these state legislators is the job isn't being done well enough. And so I'm going to stay involved in that for the next three to six months, because there's just so much knowledge sharing, the left hand doesn't talk to the right. And I think I'm reasonably good at taking complex ideas and distilling them down into, you know,

simple enough sound bites to inform people of what they need to know. I know how to focus in on the specific insights and show people what the upside is and describe it. And I think that we've got a lot of momentum with everything happening in Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, that I'm going to get back involved in, you know, showing people the benefits of technology right now. And they're not just limited to blockchain, right? Technology like really matters. I mean, artificial intelligence combined with robotics combined with automation. I mean, the landscape of work is changing and it's going to change rapidly. You've got three and a half million truck drivers, right? And we've got driverless trucks coming online. Like this is

going to be, we're not talking 10 years from now. We're talking like the next four years. And that's not including Uber drivers, Lyft drivers, taxi drivers. The world is changing and technology has a very big role to play in it. I know you've probably seen the great hack or maybe the social dilemma and technology is really impacting our future. And so I'll probably spend a fair amount of time informing government around, you know, technology as, you know, someone that has a background in. Right. And as you just touched on, I mean, we talk about inflation all the time and money printing and quantitative easing, but technology is inherently deflationary, right? I mean, if three and a half million truck drivers lose their jobs to trucks, that's people that say, you know, the trucking becomes cheaper and those people don't have jobs. It's inherently deflationary. So, you know, what does that look like for the future as technology starts to take over and force at least deflationary that process?

So I think it could be a very good thing for us, right? I live to work, or better stated, I live stuff, and seeing that technology is going to just continue to change the landscape of work. I think that we do have to find a way to make sure that people's most basic needs are met, which is why I support this idea of a universal earned income. We have to figure out how to make sure that as Americans, that no one is starving to death. Everyone has some form of shelter or roof over their head if they wish it. And they have access to some form of health care. If we don't do that, the pitchforks will be out. You know, right now, you know, we're seeing riots and looting and things of that nature because people don't feel like their voices are

being heard. They don't they they they, racial issues that have not been addressed, economic division. And when your back is up against the wall, when you're like, when survival is your focus, you know, survival takes precedent over your values and principles. And so we have to find a way to address this issue or we're going to have a major problem. And so I think that a universal earned income is the only answer. Now, the good news about that is, as people can take a breath and start to think about like, what do I want to do? You know, so many people are just doing something because it's what they started doing. And they're just kind of like in that pattern, right? They just continue that

repetitive task. But when you take a step back and you're like, what am I passionate about? What do I want to do? I think that if we play our cards correctly, this could lead to a renaissance, right? It'll take a little time because, you know, if you've done the same job for 30 years, you're not going to like just be re-skilled and joining the workforce. But as human beings, we want to be productive members of society. We just have to realign the interests. And like good news about that as well, you know, we don't need unemployment. We don't need welfare with a system like this. And the problem with those support systems is they also have perverse incentives. You know, the unemployment incentive is, oh, go get a job,

I get less money. You know, that's not, we want to align interests. You know, welfare has created, you know, a welfare state and a lot of people that have been trapped in that sort of environment. So I do think that if we play our hand correctly, it could lead to great things for this country. And I don't think we need to raise taxes either. I think it's worth stating this. You know, I think that we don't have a resource problem in this country. You know, we're the wealthiest nation in the world. We have a resource allocation problem and efficiency problem and accountability problem and administrative problem. I think that, you know, some restructuring is needed. It's back to like starting to harvest that farm. You know, it's about pruning and starting to pull out the weeds. I think there's so much waste that we can do this

with, you know, just what's already there. So it's just a matter of trimming the fat and allocating resources where they're needed. Really? And that, yes, that's my, my belief. Now, easier said than done, right? Of course, even as the president, there's only so much you can do. But it's gonna have to happen. We can't keep doing what we've been doing. You know, what has served us in the past will not serve us in the future. And so it's going to be painful. And it's also going to come from someone that is, you know, not a career politician. It's going to come from someone who is comfortable speaking truth and actually pointing out problems

and not just trying to put another bandaid on things and kick the can down the road. It requires like, all right, here's here's our problem. Now, what can we do about it? You know, all right. This house has been remodeled one hundred and twenty two times. It's time to just knock it down and rebuild it from the ground up. You know, continuing to put a bandaid on this thing is not working. You brought up the pitchforks, which I thought was very interesting because that's how this story ends every single time in history, right?

Isn't that somewhat inevitable with the current path that we're on? And interestingly, I mean, and you, you don't hear many billionaires talking about this, but they're the ones who are at risk. The people with the pitchforks come outside your door, right? Not mine. So, I mean, isn't that the inevitable path of this current trajectory? Yes, if we don't do something. And again, this is why I'm here and why I'm saying this, because I think most people would agree, I've had a pretty good track record of seeing future events before they've happened. Enough to the point that I've actually been on the team building a lot of these future systems before they've occurred. And so,

I see what's coming. It's not that difficult to see. Just have to look back. Yeah. It's, it, it, it's not that difficult to see. Just have to look back. Yeah. And study history. And you'll see, I use a lot of historical sort of data sets and data points. And I will, it's like, wake up everybody. Let me show you, this is not going to end well. We, and we have the power to change it. It doesn't have to end that way. We have the power to change it. If we choose, if enough of us get involved, and stop doing the same thing over and over again, we have to break this pattern. We have to break out of the cycle that we're in. Otherwise, that will be the inevitable. And I'd much rather see an evolutionary event for this country and humanity than a major revolutionary event.

Of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I think that's, yeah, I couldn't agree more. And you, some other points that you brought up that I just want to touch back on, because we've gone through so much criminal justice reform. I know it's something that you're passionate about. You've talked about the prison system. I would love to hear your thoughts on the current situation and what we can do potentially to fix it. Yeah. So we have more people in prison than any other country in the world. That is wrong. So I think there's a bunch of things that we need to do and for-profit prisons. I don't think this is an area where capitalism should be involved. You know, this is one of those things where I think government is best suited to do this.

I don't think we want to create an economic incentive in an environment where campaign finance is a problem and an industry that can hire lobbyists to lock more people up in cages. And just I have a problem with that. And so let's start on prison and criminal justice. You know, I've said that we should re-legalize cannabis. You know, if I was in office, one of the first thing I would do is pardon and expunge every person in our criminal justice system for nonviolent cannabis related activities.

I also think that we need to end the war on drugs. I think locking people up in prison that have drug addiction problems is not the answer. This is a mental health and a social issue. I think there's better answer, you know, get people the help they need. And we've got empirical data at this point, if you look at places like Portugal and otherwise, you know, there's just so many things that we need to fix on that front in terms of our police, demilitarize the police. You know, our police is here, are supposed to be here to protect and serve. They shouldn't look like the military on U.S. soil. I got a problem with that. I think that our police need different training. You know how we're training them is part of the problem. So let's figure out how to like what that training should look like today.

They should probably be better trained and they should be continually evaluated. And if you're a bad cop, you should be kicked off the force. I mean, seems common sense, right? You know, most of what I say just makes, you know, it should be common sense. You know, anytime someone is explaining something to you and you can't understand it, there's probably something wrong with it. And so there's a whole host of issues. You know, we can do better. This isn't that hard.

And it's back to what we incentivize, right? And, you know, back to when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You know, when you know, the police shouldn't be the parties always showing up. You know, when there's an issue, when there's a mental health issue, send in social workers. You know, there's there are different ways to address problems. You know, we get the results we get because we're using the wrong tools. It's escalated. I mean, any problem that someone calls the police for is naturally escalated just by the fact that a human being shows up with a weapon. Yeah. And so there's a bunch of reform there. And if you want, you can go to my website, which is brock.v dot vote or Brock, the vote.com leads to that, but Brock

dot vote. And you can see some of the, uh, the policy work there. I've also been issuing some op-eds. You can see my op-eds they're going up on voice.com. Uh, they're, they're also going into a number of newspapers these days, but there's just a tremendous amount of content coming out. Remember I'm running as an independent candidate. And I announced my run on July 4th on Independence Day, an auspicious day for such a mission. But when you run as an independent candidate, I've had to build everything from scratch. Like I think we've broken almost every record. But this is what you get when you have an entrepreneur that's just building things out of nothing over and over and over again.

You know, we've had to build up everything from scratch, ideology, platform, team, ballot access. I mean, this has been by far the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life. Now, the good news is, I know what I'm doing. And, and the training I'm going to get through 2021 and 2022, as I help a bunch of you, you know, get into office. By the 23, the 2023 and 2024 run, we're going to be in good shape. And hopefully by then too, you know, the biggest issue that a candidate has is the media, right? The media. So if you're a Democrat or Republican, it's about a one to $2 billion budget to run for president. If you're an independent that isn't getting any media

and you don't have access to the debates, it's a multiple of that. You need three, four, five, $10 billion probably to compete. Or we actually need a new show, podcasts and videos like yours. How do we get the message out there? Right. How do we get the message out there? And I'm hoping that by 2023 and 2024, you know, we are, we, we've found a way to communicate with

the American people. And it's very alarming right now, all this censorship, you know, everything happening on Twitter, everything happening on Facebook, YouTube channels being shut down left and right. Yeah. Especially in crypto. Like, yeah, you, I mean, I imagine that you're concerned about this. I mean, you wouldn't, you, you probably would not be shocked if you woke up tomorrow and your account, you know, your YouTube channel was cut off. Yeah. My Twitter was gone for a few days

already in that bigger hack. So yeah, it happens. And like, this is, this is alarming. Um, uh, very alarming. Uh, but I'm confident. I believe in us. I believe in the entrepreneurs and the innovators specifically in where we're building censorship resistance systems. You know, so important that, you know, we build these systems because that free speech is so important to our liberty. So important. So true. And it's interesting, but I agree with you. I think in the next two or three years, we'll see the mainstream media start to die off. I mean, they'll still dominate, obviously, because of money. But we're seeing like the Joe Rogans of the world who have become bulletproof. They're their own media networks. They're not beholden

to any of these larger systems. And I think that individuals and smaller groups will be able to build that and that independent candidates will be able to get their message out without the expected avenues of CNN and Fox and such. I really do believe that. As do I, and it couldn't come at a more needed time, right? Thank God for technology and innovation that's protecting us from this. I mean, anyone in their right mind is becoming sick of the same, you know, of the status quo and that. And I want to touch on one more thing. I mean, anyone in their right mind is becoming sick of the same, you know, of the status quo and that. And I want to touch on one more thing. I know that we're kind of up against it here, but I know that you have a huge event coming up, which is the Independent National

Convention in Wyoming. And that seems like an important thing to touch on and to get the word out about. Can you tell me what that's about and I guess why you're so excited for it? Well, I hope you come. So it's the INC or the independent national convention, something you would think would have been created many years ago. It's something that came out of this campaign. It's not ours. We gave it to the community of third parties, but it was an obvious thing that we identified as something missing from the ecosystem. And so I'm going to be so bold as to say that I think the INC this year will be bigger in its inaugural year than the DNC and the RNC combined. Now the bar was set low thanks to COVID. But so I hope to see you there as we make history together. And so it's going to be on October 23rd and 24th.

So it's in about a week. It'll be in Cheyenne, Wyoming. I just got word that the Mayan warrior is going to be there, which is like a spaceship with the $20 million of lasers and the biggest portable sound system in the world. And so like, it's going to be like interesting. Bringing the burn to the INC, right? Yeah, it sounds like the Mayan Warrior, it's going to be, the mayor has designated it

to be set up right in front of the Capitol. And so, I mean, this is going to be like a historic sort of moment. The birthing of, you know, possibly this thing that is going to bring, you know, the third parties together, you know, understanding that we can collaborate. And, you know, when, when you're the little guys, when you're all, when you're,

when you're the Davids, you know, we have to figure out how to stand up to the Goliaths. And I think that this is the beginning of that movement. And so I hope to see as many of you there as possible. There will be some really interesting surprises. I mean, it's something you're not going to want to miss. And if you can't attend in person, I would highly recommend that you make sure to tune in

and watch what we do. There will be the independent debates will happen again with independent presidential candidates debating and all sorts of good stuff in store. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun and just something that has to happen. You're right. I mean, it's incredible that nobody thought of that before because, I mean, we've had powerful third party candidates many times in history. So it's, it's seems like a, seems like a layup to get them together and try to unite in some sort of way. And just to have a greater platform for all of these ideas that are not represented by the two people that you always see on stage. So I have to ask before we

go, I mean, you painted this broad stroke for what America would be like. And what I found so interesting about it is I think literally every American would agree with it. Right. I mean, all those things you said at the beginning about what it should look like. Everyone wants those things. I mean, they're just the natural things that a human being would desire. And it seems it's just the two party system destroys them when it when it comes down to the politics. So assuming you win in the future, assuming you see your vision come to fruition for other candidates, what does America look like in 10 years, 20 years? We'd be the United States again, with our lives improving, our liberty preserved, and hopefully we're all a lot happier, you know, figured out, you know, as a country that's been reunited. I'm doing this because I believe in us. I have faith in us. The question is, how much worse does it have to get before it starts to get better?

You know, we're going to learn our lessons one way or another, and we're in this together. And I think, I think this is the beginning of that change. I mean, this is the year 2020, you know, the visionary twenties, or as I prefer to say, the soaring twenties. I think this nation will rise like aenix from the ashes. I believe that this country was designed and created to be the bastion of hope in the world, to be the light of the world. And I think we're going to get there, but it's going to be a painful process. Change is never easy. This is kind of like when the caterpillar goes into the crystal list. You know, what happens to the caterpillar's body, it actually liquefies before it becomes a butterfly. And so, um, you know, I think it's going to be a painful process, but I think it, um,

there's light at the end of this tunnel and I think it ends where the beginning, you know, will be a beautiful thing. No better way to end than that. So where can people participate, follow you, follow the campaign and get involved? So Brock.vote, I'm dropping you the INC link as well. Perfect. My website. And then you're going to enjoy that one. If you haven't seen this, take a look at that. I checked it all out. I really, really like it. Well, we appreciate very much you taking this shot for all of us, because I know, as you touched on earlier, running for president really opens you up to a world of pain, especially

in this country. And I know that, you know, doing all the things you've done, there's been a lot of controversy and a lot of, you know, false stories and things. And so you're reopening those wounds, I would imagine. So hopefully, you'll get through it well. And that'll open the door for other people who have been interested and been scared to do it to come out and run and make change as well. So thank you so much for running and for coming on the show. Thank you. Long overdue.

Glad we made this happen. We'll do it again for sure. Yes, please.