The Wolf Of All Streets - Live From Formula 1: How To Build A Generational Crypto Brand | Haider Rafique, OKX

Starting point is 00:00:00 I heard that you're the only one who can drive the supercar. Because my philosophy is nothing good comes out of more than three people in a room. And I would call them up in the morning going to class. Hey, I'm Heider. If you want a French cuisine, get that out of my kitchen. And most of them shut their phone down. Of course. That's not being recorded, right?

Starting point is 00:00:14 Okay, good. Dumbass. He said dumbass. Think about it. Lewis Hamilton, Carlos Sanz, Art N Senna. That when you get something, shut up and take it and figure out the rest later. Yeah, and then of course, like everyone else in America, I watch Netflix. Just hearing you gives me goosebumps.

Starting point is 00:00:29 Awesome. Done. That's my focus. That's what I live and breathe every day. Cool, man. Let's go. I heard that you're the only one who can drive the supercar. Yeah. But you're the only one who can drive the supercar. Yeah. I offered to take it for a spin and they told me you were the only one who was insured. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:00:52 So listen, this car is entirely covered in OKX. I don't think I've ever seen that with any of these. It's a brand new livery. Is that just for this race or is it for a couple of races? We co-designed the livery. We're the only crypto company in the world that actually comes together with a team like this. And co-design. Our designers sit down with their designers and we sketch it out.

Starting point is 00:01:13 And this is the second year in a row where we've done this. This is certainly like a more matured livery than last year. But yeah, we're the only crypto company that's doing it. But it seems like this is a true partnership for some of the other ones. I don't want to name names. But I've seen where it's like just a small logo in a corner and it never really changes. I mean, how did you engineer a partnership like that? And why is that so different? Well, I think the first thing I believe in is don't invest in things that you don't

Starting point is 00:01:40 intimately know about. I have been a fan. I've been watching this sport for a really long time, I know a lot about McLaren. And I think that helped us forge a really close relationship from day one. When I got into their office, they knew that I had a lot of knowledge about the company, the brand, and its legacy.

Starting point is 00:01:57 So I think that's what really enabled us to crack something that others don't have. Now, knowing the property, knowing the team, knowing the car, I was able to negotiate a deal with them that made us look very prominent, a lot more prominent than not just crypto bands. It's interesting though because I think most brands have taken the approach of being extremely crypto focused, tech focused, marketing to the crypto natives and it feels like you've done something.

Starting point is 00:02:27 You're obviously doing that, but you've done something completely opposite, which is to turn it into a lifestyle brand. Makes me think of Red Bull. I know maybe you can't invoke Red Bull in the office here because, you know, McLaren and Red Bull, but it makes me think of Red Bull the early days. First time I ever had it was it was in a vial and I was in Amsterdam and they poured it into my vodka. Right. But then all of a sudden I was like, oh, cool drink, snare drink. And then Red Bull became this international brand. And it's still just a drink. Yeah. Right. It's still just a drink. And 99 percent of people who know Red Bull probably

Starting point is 00:02:59 don't even drink it. Yeah. It's just become this massive brand. That seems like the trajectory that you're headed on with OKX, where it's going to be one of those things where literally everybody knows the logo. They see it. They think of it as a lifestyle brand. And then maybe some of them will end up buying or trading crypto. That's absolutely right. I think the opportunity I saw in the industry, this is not my first crypto firm. I think I kind of went around the block.

Starting point is 00:03:24 I was at Blockchain Info, rebranded then. And one thing I realized working with different crypto companies was there was an incredible engineering talent and product talent, maybe even business talent, but there was absolutely not a great marketing talent. And part of it was because engineers, especially in the Bay Area and Silicon Valley, or even globally, just didn't think that marketing was needed. They felt that if you have the right product, people will come.

Starting point is 00:03:53 If you have the right community, that's essentially all you need. And yes, that works in the early parts of the industry. It doesn't work when you start to mature. Now you're competing with the big brands, and you need to have a different narrative. You need to have a different positioning, a different posture. That's one side of it. But the other bigger side is crypto is in itself, in its nature, in its DNA, is a lifestyle. I mean, think about the early formation. You know, you have a political point of view or you have a point of view and it was based on a certain

Starting point is 00:04:24 lifestyle people wanted. They wanted more control. They wanted more autonomy. They wanted more have a political point of view or you have a point of view and it was based on a certain lifestyle people wanted. They wanted more control. They wanted more autonomy. They wanted more transparency in financial systems. That's essentially a lifestyle. So how do you turn that and make it relatable for 7 billion people around the world? I think it's really important for crypto companies to lean into that and not be afraid. I often think sometimes when people don't want to do something, it's because there's lack of education or knowledge or what have you. A great example I'll give you is when people demonize when somebody purchases a supercar.

Starting point is 00:04:56 They're like, oh, that person bought a Lamborghini. Yeah. You know, Lamborghini aside, I think people who purchase expensive cars or expensive wine, they have a taste for it. And marketing is similar. And calling it a lifestyle brand, you kind of have to open your mind up and say, well, what's beyond the phenomenal engineering in this industry? What else do we need to do to make this relatable to a billion people. And drawing an Armageddon mode for people that the world is going to crash

Starting point is 00:05:28 and crypto is the only savior is not a positive message. People want to wake up and they want to feel happy. They want to feel the feeling of new. They want to feel hope. And I think lifestyle brands are able to do that phenomenally well

Starting point is 00:05:43 when things are not going well they they provide the feel good things are going well for you so how do you choose those specific partnerships because there was that time when it was like everybody just wanted a crypto company to put some money and slap a logo on something i think a couple of things we waited we waited till the noise was done because in 2021 where was this sponsorship hysteria? What was important was let the market settle because the multipliers were pretty aggressive. If a deal was 20 million, it was now being traded for 60 million. And that's not a time where you should be shopping. And when everyone's doing something, why would you want to just follow the crowd?

Starting point is 00:06:20 We felt it was important when everyone dries out, so to speak, and it was really uncomfortable. It's almost like trading. That's why I giggled when you just said that. I was like, do you want to be in the trade at the top when everybody says you're going to a million? Look, I think it might also help that I'm probably one of the few marketers in the industry who has a trading background. So I do think in that way, and I certainly don't want to do it like others are doing it for our company. And so 2022 happens. The way we find winners, Scott, is you've got to look at the team and their eyes.

Starting point is 00:06:58 You can see people's ambition. You can see their drive. It becomes abundantly clear. You know, if you see that spark in their eye, that's one of the biggest indicators. I can't go and say, you know, I saw the spark in their eye and we should go spend millions of dollars. And there are fundamentals and a framework that we looked at. We looked at distribution. We looked at association. We looked whether the long-term potential of a partnership like that was great.

Starting point is 00:07:28 We looked at the partner ecosystem for that property. If you look at McLaren, we're right next to Google. We're right next to Coca-Cola, right next to Goldman Sachs. I think we can agree it makes sense for us to be in that company. With Man City, we knew they were an incredible team. They were on a trajectory. You could kind of see the velocity. And then Pep Guardiola is just an incredible, incredible coach and talent in football.

Starting point is 00:07:50 I think he's going to be one of the greatest in the industry. And personality. And amazing personality. He has had so much fun interacting with him, partnering with him over the last year and a half. And every time I hang out with him, it's just so fun. And I look forward to it. So I think the answer is you you got to look for that spark. And you got to, even if you talk to Scotty, you'll notice that, you know, even as a two-time champion, a two-time Olympian, he's still got that spark.

Starting point is 00:08:15 He's here and he's actually training every day. You know, he's a snowboarder, but he's running the track. And I think it takes that. It takes that from us, from the people who are working at the company, but it certainly takes that from the brand partners we associate ourselves with. Did the other sponsors impact who you decided to go with? Because it seems like you could get placed next to someone that maybe also didn't align with your ethos or wasn't really aligned. I mean, Google, Goldman Sachs, It really doesn't get much bigger than that

Starting point is 00:08:45 Yeah, I think from a brand standpoint We really wanted to make sure that we we get up there when we rebranded one of the key goals I had From management was let's put our company on the map in a really big way And when you have that goal, you can't just play, you know, you can't have a small bet you got to go lean in so I think that was the overall desire is how do we configure this deal in a way that is really impactful globally and how will it evolve over the next few years a five-year deal right it's a five-year deal my hope is that it is a generational deal I've said this before I'm not gonna do a lot more deals I want to stay here and I want to stay with them for generations to come.

Starting point is 00:09:27 And I really believe these guys are going to have a turnaround. They're going to get much further ahead on the track. And that's going to be a beautiful thing, taking that ride with them. How much does that performance actually sort of impact the deal and the success of it? We've seen Man City, right? You guys came in right at the perfect time. They win multiple Premier League championships, best in the world. So how much does the improvement of the team, how much are you betting on that with actually doing that sponsorship?

Starting point is 00:09:52 Hugely. We believe in Zach. We believe in the drivers. We believe in the engineering team. I think this team is going to turn around very quickly. We saw that in the UK when you were there. That was an incredible race. I think we had some really good results last year in Singapore. Look, this is a really tough sport. It's really competitive. There's a lot of strategy involved. You could have the best car, the best driver, you make one wrong move in terms of your pet strategy, and there you go. You don't have the best outcome. So look, I think we have high hopes of McLaren. They have delivered time and time again. Think about it. Lewis Hamilton, Carlos Sanz, Arndt and Senna.

Starting point is 00:10:31 You can name all the greats. And they, at one point, everyone, you know, went through McLaren's institute. So that's brought you to here. Seems like there's no bear market in the thinking of how you guys approach things, although we know what a disaster it is. What kind of things would you think come next? Is it more of a focus on maximizing the partnerships that you have? Or are you actively looking for others like that? Or is it just when it makes sense, it makes sense? I think a bit of the second and third. There's a lot to do here and it's important that you know even even for you you know which partners we have I think with a lot of

Starting point is 00:11:09 companies you might be scratching your head it's like you get past three partnerships and I think your memory is gonna you know work against you we want these partners to be generational partners for us we want to be the Marlboro so to speak you. You know, a generational brand. Which is on Ferrari forever, right? Everyone who thinks of Schumacher thinks of Marlboro. I mean, that was my youth. Yeah, and I think that association, that equity you build, comes over a long period of time. And then people know that it wasn't just a transaction, it was a long-term

Starting point is 00:11:39 relationship. And you go through the property's ups and downs, and the property goes through your ups and downs. And you build a marriage marriage and you build a relationship. We're not going to do more partnerships yet. We're going to focus on making these the most incredible partnerships and activations the industry has seen. That's my obsession. That's my focus. That's what I live and breathe every day. And when I was listening to you just talk to Scotty James in the office, you mentioned something I I found really interesting. It's that last time he was snowboarding, main stage, millions of people watching, OKEx is on the bottom of his board, right?

Starting point is 00:12:15 But everybody knows, cool, I saw it. Great. But you actually saw the data and you saw the Google searches of OKEx go absolutely insane in that moment. And like you said, you said, now I know that this was a worthwhile partnership. How do you make sure that that's what's happening instead of just being the 17th logo that's lost on the back of the helmet that nobody thinks about? I mean, I think that's what you're talking about, because it feels like most partnerships,

Starting point is 00:12:40 not just in crypto, anywhere, just completely fly by night, cash grab, attention grab. Well, first off, I don't think we would pursue a partnership where we're not very integrated into the property or the athlete. It's a non-negotiable. We're either going to do it big or we don't do it at all. And when it comes to going big, it's not like we're the biggest check in town. The fascinating thing, Scott, is with each of these deals, the first conversation has always been from our side that, hey, we're not going to be the biggest check. Let's just level set on that, right?

Starting point is 00:13:18 Because the minute they hear a crypto company, especially during the bull run or a good market, they think, okay, cool know we can command a multiplier and that was the first thing we did with each partner hey we're not the biggest check you know we want to partner for the right reasons if you're interested great if you're not no worries and that demonstrates a lot of the character from Man City McLaren Tribeca Film Festival so I think that that fundamental is really important we don't want to be one of the hundred logos.

Starting point is 00:13:46 We want to be really prominent. We want to demonstrate a big relationship. And then we want the fans to understand why we're doing it. And we want our community to understand why we're doing it. And there are two different vantage points. For the fans, we want to supercharge their fan experience. For our community, we want them to feel proud that we're associated to some of these big properties. And that adrenaline that you feel when these teams win

Starting point is 00:14:12 then transfers over to how they feel about our company or what they do in their daily lives. I was never an F1 fan. And of course, like everyone else in America, I watch Netflix. But I went to Silverstone with you guys. I'm a McLaren fan until else in America, I watch Netflix. Yeah. Right. But I went to Silverstone with you guys. Yeah. I wasn't a McLaren fan until that day.

Starting point is 00:14:28 I threw on all the stuff I'm going to represent. And then out of nowhere, McLaren comes in second and fourth, right, at the home Grand Prix. And I found myself cheering harder for them. Yeah. Just because like I love OKX and cheering harder for them than I had for my own home teams when they were winning national championships in the United States when I grew up. My family thought they were nuts.

Starting point is 00:14:49 I'm getting sprayed with champagne. But you curated that experience for people, which I think is invaluable. The community it builds when you're watching something like that. I mean, just hearing you gives me goosebumps. It's awesome. You know, I've been in some of those positions. Last year when we were in Singapore, We were on the back of the, you know, the grid. And we had the team perform really well. They kept a strong pace. And eventually, I think

Starting point is 00:15:13 we ended up with position four and five or position three and four, I can't recall. But that experience of the entire team being in the paddock and the unity it brings when they experience something like this together. And then when you come back into the office, it just actually forms better bond, better relationships. People work well together. And that's something that most companies don't think about when they pursue these partnerships. What is it going to do to your internal culture? It was absolutely a great multiplier for us internally when we started to not just do the deals, but when we started to win. It was funny because when I was there, my parents were watching. My brother was watching.

Starting point is 00:15:54 All my friends were watching at home and none of them had ever been Formula One fans or knew what OKEx was until I started talking to them. Just because I was there and they were winning, everybody was at home cheering. It was amazing so I heard a rumor that when you were doing this deal a major competitor was offering more money than you guys for the exact same deal but uh you somehow won with a smaller offer look I can't you might be on to something there I'll leave it leave it there and the thing is you know ultimately these guys care about people who genuinely love the sport and know about the sport if you don't know anything about the sport and you're just writing a check I don't think it's

Starting point is 00:16:31 attractive to anyone maybe to the teams at the ninth and the tenth yeah we'll take it with a little tiny sticker on the back if I if I sponsor team myself do I get this kind of access you should like if I can you do like Formula two I know some guys have it might get one sticker and then get full access to everything. Yeah. I'm gonna do that. We should sponsor a team. Put our faces on it. I know they're all your competitors there's other exchanges there's other companies but it feels like the only way that the industry goes mainstream and we eliminate all of the sort of negativity that's happened in the past cycle is if

Starting point is 00:17:04 more companies actually approach it the way that you are. So I know you don't want the competitors to catch up to some degree, but do you hope that others sort of take this approach, partner with people mainstream in a more genuine way than some may have in the past cycles? I think so.

Starting point is 00:17:19 I think it's really important for the entire industry to be uplifted. We are, you know, We are under a lens of scrutiny from so many different angles. And there's a negative perception around crypto in many places. People feel this is just a bunch of kids who are obsessed with things going to the moon.

Starting point is 00:17:38 And it certainly is not. The fundamental technology that's being built, even at an enterprise level, is gonna create so much value in all industries, not just crypto, not just in consumer. And I think we have to pay attention to that. But for that story to be told, you can't just think that you're going to have a phenomenal engineering powerhouse and suddenly that's going to happen. It's not. I would even argue at one point OpenAI is going to need to do this.

Starting point is 00:18:06 Yeah. Every company. Unless you have a, look, I think Elon Musk has done an incredible job with Tesla. But can you replicate that? I think it's really hard. And at some point, I think even Tesla is going to, I can actually bet with you, Scott, Tesla will begin marketing campaigns. They're going to have to. The cars went down from $120,000 to $70,000

Starting point is 00:18:26 in the last six, seven months just to compete with all of the others. What's one of the greatest companies in the United States or globally? Apple? Yeah, of course. I think Apple is the institution of marketing. I think if there's anything,

Starting point is 00:18:38 our industry, the founders in this industry, the engineering founders in this industry, I think there are a few who will say, yeah, you don't need PR, you don't need marketing. I think they should pay attention. Yeah, is that where you draw the inspiration? It's like such a cliche, but everybody does. I've owned every Apple device that's ever existed since I was 13.

Starting point is 00:18:57 No, I don't think it was just Apple. I think, look, I was a study of marketing. I have done it from the minute I left college. I started my career before pre-Mad Men era. When Mad Men was in a show, I was obsessed with wanting to work on Madison Avenue. When I was walking to my final classes in college, I had BBDO, McCann Erickson, Y&R, Saatchi & Saatchi, all the DDB, all these firms on my speed dial. And I would call them up in the morning going to class. Hey, I'm Haider. I'm looking for an internship at your firm. And most of them shut their phone down, of course. Eventually, I got an internship at BBDO. And, you know, this journey

Starting point is 00:19:35 has been really long. I'm obsessed with storytelling. And it's now manifested into this career I have. And it's, you know And Apple's a very good component of that story. But there are certainly so many brands that became institutionalized when it comes to marketing. You have Nike, a phenomenal brand. I really think what the insurance category has done for marketing in the United States is phenomenal. Geico, Progressive, they do amazing work. And it entertains people. Marketing in a really noisy, crowded world is not about value propositions. It is about

Starting point is 00:20:13 knowledge utility, and it is about entertainment utility. If you can just entertain people once, they might give you a chance. They might consider your brand. Yeah, perfect. I love what you guys are building, obviously. I'm really thrilled to be a part of it. We're going to shoot a whole bunch more at the race tomorrow. Cool. We'll save it for then.

Starting point is 00:20:33 I'm excited to see you there. Thank you, man. Let's go.

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The Wolf Of All Streets - Live From Formula 1: How To Build A Generational Crypto Brand | Haider Rafique, OKX

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