The Wolf Of All Streets - Magic Truffles and Magic Money with Todd Shapiro, CEO of Red Light Holland

Episode Date: October 27, 2020

Todd Shapiro, once a shy youth, found his comfort zone on camera and behind the microphone, becoming a Canadian radio sensation with a prime time show airing nightly. After pivoting from radio, Todd became an advocate for microdosing mushrooms, with the intention of breaking stigmas around psilocybin. His company, Red Light Holland, is smashing through regulatory barriers and destroying misconceptions. On the forefront of emerging markets, Todd also has an interest in Bitcoin and the blockchain.  Scott Melker and Todd Shapiro further discuss becoming a radio sensation, going on the show Blind Date, what is a “Magic Mushroom”, Magic Truffles vs. Magic Mushrooms, falling in love with capital markets, pink elephants and bending phones, stigmas and conspiracy theories, big pharma, appreciating the things that mean the most, a VR microdose headset, the Red Light District, psychedelics, psilocybin and more. --- ROUNDLYX RoundlyX allows you to dollar-cost-average into crypto with our spare change "Roundup" investing tool, manage multiple crypto exchange accounts in one dashboard and access curated digital asset content and services. Visit RoundlyX and use promo code "WOLF" to learn more about accumulating your favorite digital assets when making everyday purchases and earn $4 in free Bitcoin. --- EQUOS Diginex is the first company with a cryptocurrency exchange to be listed in the US. That exchange, EQUOS, has been built to institutional standards, but is available to everyone. You can trade Bitcoin and Ethereum spot, as well as Bitcoin perpetuals, and get a 5% discount on all fees, by signing up using equos.com/wolf. --- CELSIUS With the Celsius app you can earn up to 15% APY rewards on over 30 cryptocurrencies. Have crypto but want cash? Celsius also offers the lowest cost loans against your crypto with interest rates starting at just 1% APR. Enter promo code WOLF when you sign up and get $20 in BTC! Users must transfer and hold at least $200 of any coin for 30 days to be eligible for the reward. --- If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with your colleagues & friends, rate, review, and subscribe.This podcast is presented by BlockWorks Group. For exclusive content and events that provide insights into the crypto and blockchain space, visit them at: https://www.blockworksgroup.io

I'd like to thank my sponsors Celsius, Equus, and Round the X for making this episode possible. Stay tuned later in the episode for more info. What is up, everybody? This is Scott Melker, and you're listening to the Wolf of All Streets podcast. Today's guest is a well-known Canadian broadcaster and media personality. Although apparently he was a shy kid, Todd found that he could be himself in front of the camera and microphone, and now hosts his own show called The Todd Shapiro Show, which is live every single day in Canada. Beyond his radio career, Todd is the CEO of a company called Red Light Holland, which

is famous for its quote unquote magic truffle. Something I can't wait to ask more questions and learn more about. Todd, man, it's a pleasure to have you. Thanks so much for taking the time. Yeah, thank you, Scott, so much. Quick, quick correction. I recently did sort of step away from the radio because nobody told me. No, no, no. Because the Wikipedia hasn't been updated. That's the issue here. No one updated the Wikipedia. But listen, I didn't plan on stepping away from the radio necessarily. But between the anxiety of doing live radio all the time, and then being the CEO of this company, it's like I have shareholders to speak to. And I just felt that like, if I wasn't in this full time, then I was doing a disservice to them. So no worries on that

at all. So Todd Shapiro is a former radio host. Well, before we get into the questions, I do have to say once again, you're listening to the Wolf of All Streets podcast where two times a week, I talk to your favorite personalities from the worlds of Bitcoin, finance, art, trading, music, sports, former radio, and politics. Those powered by BlockWorks Group, a media company with over 20 podcasts, their network, you check them out at blockworksgroup.io. And if you like the podcast and you follow me on Twitter, you need to check out my website and join my newsletter where I share all my insight. That's at thewolfofallstreets.io. And now back to what's

important. So Todd, I heard that your mom didn't think you were even responsible enough to take care of a dog. So how is Hoffie doing? Unreal, man. I love the research. That is fully accurate. Yeah. Back in, it must've been about 2007, my mother came on. We were sort of a zoo crew-ish type of morning show back in the day. I was just the co-host of it. And I was kind of the playboy. You know, I was the guy that like lived downtown Toronto and the condo scene is a started developing,

you know, club scene just started meeting like the booths and bottle service. I was all kind of new then. Kids forget these days how hard it was to meet ladies until the booth service came around. So swipe right. We couldn't swipe right. I had to actually talk to a girl if I wanted her to be interested in me. Crazy, I know. I know. Unreal. So long story short, I was living this bachelor style life and it wasn't bringing me much fulfillment other than maybe an hour a night. But my mom came on the radio one day, I forget why. And she literally on the radio to over a million people

was like, my son can't even take care of a dog. So just to prove her wrong, I got a little Yorkshire terrier, maybe the next week. And he's still alive today. He's 13 years old. And we forget about him a little bit because we do have kids now. But I mean, he is awesome. He's strong. And thank you for asking. Hoffie is just great. You showed her. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. But I think she likes the dog more than me now. So the dog's probably in the will and not myself. Well, my parents like my wife more than they like me. So we had the same situation out there. My mom literally one day said, if you ever mess this up, we're keeping her and we're getting rid of you. So I guess it's a credit. I should take that as a compliment in some crooked way, I'm sure. So how did, go ahead. Oh, I see. Is her name Emmy or Amy? Like, is it? Emmy. It is Emmy. Okay. Yeah.

I wasn't sure to pronounce exactly. Yeah. You got it. You got it. Um, and so how did your career in radio begin? I mean, you know, we read that you were kind of a shy kid or at least that's what you say. And so it seems like a sort of opposing, uh, career to, to end up in for someone who's, who's shy. Yeah. Listen, I really appreciate you asking actually. Um, you know, it takes me back a lot. So I, you know, it's not that I was necessarily shy, but I was uncomfortable with cameras and microphones. So maybe in like my circle, my group of friends, I was, you know, the outgoing guy at the bar or whatever, but not away from it. I was super insecure and shy. Like it was just the people I was comfortable with.

And to be honest, my friends pushed me a lot to get into entertainment. And, you know, they were kind of like, you should do more you for everybody else other than just our little group here, you know, passing the joints around in a garage or whatever in the day. And long story short, Scott, do you remember that show Blind Date? Oh, of course. Of course. I mean, the pop up bubbles and everything. That show was amazing. Honestly, of all dating shows, they really nailed it because of the third party commentary kind of as you stated, but it was, and you know, Roger Lodge was the guy I think. And so, you know, us being in Toronto and, you know, I know probably most of your, your listeners

and viewers here are American, but you know, Toronto is a big city if you haven't been, and it was a very big developing city at the time. And Blind Date came to Toronto. And my buddies were then like, you should try out for Blind Date. To make a really long story short, I ended up getting on the show of Blind Date. I was one of like five Toronto couples that was featured on it. And where it leads back to radio is there was a local radio station at the time that was doing like promos with the TV station of the Toronto daters to say, hey, later today, watch Blind Date on your local channel. And I entered the radio world that way. I mean, I was in school for media at the time now back in college, but that's where my internship

started right after that show. And I stayed on that main station. It's called 102.1 The Edge in Toronto. I stayed there. I ended up staying there for 14 years. Wow. That's an incredible long career. But now, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, that was probably a very comfortable career and a hell of a lot of fun. And you, as you mentioned at the beginning, you've now for, foregone that to focus on this other career. That's ballsy. Yeah, man. You know, it's really interesting. I did it for 14 years there. I left and did my own thing on Sirius XM for seven years. And the way I structured Sirius though was, was, and I think you'll really appreciate this as an entrepreneur, is I actually structured a deal with them where some of my expenses were paid for and my producers were paid for and stuff,

but I actually owned the commercial inventory. Meaning I just wanted more control. Meaning I didn't want an advertiser to say they didn't like what I heard. So then pull the advertisement because of it. This way I could work with advertisers that I knew. So I sort of ran that radio show like a bit. I mean, not sort of, I did. I ran it like a business. I had to eat what I killed. And through that, I became really focused on things like, you know, because I had to approach clients all the time. So I became focused on emerging industries, Bitcoin being one of them. Cannabis, of course, in Canada being, you know, the second main one because that, you know, industry was emerging at a very rapid pace in this country. And I started to work with companies in both those different areas.

And I became really ingrained in through it all because most of these were companies, whether it was Bitcoin or altcoins that you could trade, or then cannabis companies that would work with me that you could trade. So on the stock market, so I became kind of, and I'm very inexperienced. I've never been a good day trader, but I became kind of a day trader because I wanted to also support the companies, but then I'm like, oh, I can make quick money here. And then, so I started to just fall in love with the capital markets is without any degrees, without any backgrounds, without any MBA or, you know, business behind me. And, you know, I fell into it. I'm not sure how you fell into it as a former DJ, DJ, but that was sort of my thing. I think a lot of people fall into trading in ways

like that. I don't think it requires an education in economics or in finance to be a good trader. There's a famous quote. It's like, 90% of what you need in trading, you learn in kindergarten or by the time you're in fifth grade or something. I mean, at the end of the day, it comes down more, I think, to temperament than intelligence. And so I think you're right. I don't think you need that sort of background. I mean, I fell into it because it was just something I did on the side and then something I became much more passionate about after I had kids and retired from that other thing and was like, wow, I need a way to really make money and take this seriously and trading. In a lot of ways, the lifestyle reminded me of what I had before, the sort of freedom to make my own hours and things like that. So it was very attractive to me from a lifestyle perspective, even more than from the job. And I think you just like get tired of losing money

and hopefully get good at it eventually. Well, no, for sure. And then, you know, the interesting thing is I, I think the radio show hosted me came, came out to the fact where I started to do deep dives more than, than just trading, but more deep dives in like, how do the capital markets work? How, if I ever wanted to raise money with an idea, could I take a company public? And I think that's what's led me into this next chapter in my life because I realized that I could go out and raise money and I could take a company public. Stuff, Scott, I swear to God, three years ago would have never even been on my radar. Your mom didn't even think you could keep a dog alive. Don't tell my investors that. Stop reminding them. I'm sorry, everybody. We can always edit and we can go back and just take

those parts out. But so that's really interesting. So let's get into that then. So obviously, as I touched on, you have Red Light Holland. What is it? Where do you stand in the process? And just give us the whole background. For sure. Thank you. And speaking of emerging industries, it's really interesting now what I'm doing. So Red Light Holland is a publicly traded company. It's on the Canadian Securities Exchange under TRIP. It's on the OTCs under TRUF, T-R-U-F-F. It's even in the german exchange on 4yx and and it's in the psychedelic sector so i'll i'll give a quick little story and and you know listen part of my job and i'm sure you see this in your industry man like like we're as human beings we you know we we pretend everyone's doing

okay but the more you get to know people and the more you're personal with people, you realize a lot of us aren't doing okay. And, you know, I'd like to think I'm very fortunate because, you know, I'm a very outgoing guy, wear my emotions on my sleeve. now, you know, talking for a good amount of time and long form conversation, you start to realize people are really depressed or really anxious or, or going through tough times. And it's sadly, man, everyone seems to know someone who's taken their life or, or like this crazy stuff, you know, like just really sad stuff. So the radio and me did this deep dive on what can help, like what can really try to help this world. And I kept coming back to psilocybin, like, you know, big pharma is not helping, prescriptions, you know, whether it's these Atavans or Adderalls or for pain management, opioids, like we all know that crisis. And I just fell in love with the idea of magic mushrooms and psilocybin trying to help people. So I, of course, started to use it a little bit more, not like the tripped out days I did in

college. I would, you know, get access to it and microdose. And man, anecdotally, I can tell you, Scott, like, and I don't know if you've ever microdosed, I'm sure as a club. I have not actually. Yeah. I have not microdosed only because I think it became a thing way after I was already in college and through the, I guess, conventional experimental phase, being in my 40s and stuff. But I am know, as Todd Shapiro is someone who used this before I started a company, I was like, holy fuck, this is working for me. Like, this is helping with my focus. This is helping me park my anxiety and my fears, which still exist. They're still there. But, you know, it allows me to get along with my day knowing that like some of them are irrational or some of them I can't control anyway. So, you know, just live your life. And then it helped me most importantly with connectivity. And it's really interesting.

You mentioned the kids because I have the one-year-old and the five-year-old, you know, likewise like you. And it was like, I was sort of weird. Like I'm an old guy trying to microdose, but with the kids, I really connected. It's like, you see life through their eyes almost like much more, at least for me, open was much more spent time i wasn't so worried about the next thing i was just worried about not worried i was excited to live in the moment so i became super passionate to the point like this is it man i'm telling this experience to the world and i'm going to try and raise money in the psychedelic sector but no one was going to take todd shapiro as a radio show host because Cause I was still doing radio at the time.

Seriously. If I said I'm going to be the next big medical and scientific research company, and there's a lot of like compass pathways or whatever, like this isn't just what a guy wearing a ball cap could go and raise money to do. So I quickly, you know,

remembered how I'd been in Netherlands, tried the truffles in the day, spoke to other people who, you know, travel a lot to Europe and,les in the day, spoke to other people who, you know, travel a lot to Europe. And in the Netherlands, the magic truffle is a product that you can get in the Netherlands legally right now. You can't get magic mushrooms, but you can get magic truffles. And, you know, listen, some say it's a gray area. It's not. It's a legal product. It's a product that,

through our legal opinions, are there. So, I was like, well, why don't we start in the Netherlands where I can brand, that's what you see behind me, a product and we can do it very responsibly, not promote it the way it's sort of being promoted now, which is buy it in 15 or 30 grams and go and get tripped out and have this crazy experience, but start it as a natural microdose because Scott, I can only sell it in its raw, unprocessed, natural form. So in the truffle form itself. You can't alter it at all. Yes, exactly. You can't extract it. You can't put it in a capsule. You can't even put it in chocolate. So long story short, I raised 4 million Canadian. So it's like 12 bucks your currency or something. Yeah, it's like 1350. Don't sell yourself short. We're devaluing right now. And we quickly went to see if we could take this

company public. And the Canadian Securities Exchange worked very closely with us, but a lot of back and forth. It's not easy. And we took the company public, Red Light Holland. And we're at a point now where we've been trading for, I guess, five and a half months. And we've developed this brand, the iMicrodose brand, and I'll explain the VR headset to you in a moment, that is now currently in seven different smart shops in the Netherlands. And there's a website online called imicrodose.nl, where if you're in the Netherlands and you're 18 plus, you can buy our product now. So you're trading publicly on the Canadian Stock Exchange, but the product is primarily being marketed and sold in the Netherlands. That's correct. That's sort of the only, I say sort of because we will look to explore other markets, but for now it's the market that

we're testing. It's the market that I can do so. And it's a product on shelves, in fridges, actually. You have to keep it in a fridge because you have to keep it, because of its raw form, you have to keep it fresh. I don't want to assume that everyone here is even superficially familiar with microdosing, right? Because I don't think that it's reached mainstream in the way that maybe we think it has. Like I hear about it all the time, but I don't know that everyone has. So can you talk about what microdosing is in general and just start from the beginning of why this is so interesting? Definitely. All one has to do is I encourage people to Google microdose or hashtag microdose because this is the part I hate, by the way,

about being a publicly traded company. If I was private, I think I could really tell you more about what I think microdosing can do. But I have to be careful because I can't be leading. I can't be, you know, forward looking. I have to I have to basically, you know, tell you I can't make these medical claims. I can just share with you anecdotal stories and stories of what people are talking about from microdosing. And listen, it always seems to come back to people taking small amounts. And in my case, it would be psilocybin. We're not talking about MDMA or LSD or the other things that people microdose.

In this case, it's psilocybin, whether it's magic truffles or magic mushrooms. And it's all part of the same family. Let's just put it that way. It's a little bit confusing how the sclerotia will have an underground kind of form of the truffle before it becomes the stem or the cap, but it actually creates its own food source. That's the truffle. It never actually sees the light of day. Um, and, and, uh, those are what's legal in the Netherlands. That's a really quick, you know, mycologist might not say it's more detailed, but anyway, yeah. Psilocybin used in very small dosages seems to help with this stuff I spoke of earlier, clarity and focus, connectivity, you know, helping with anxiety, depression even.

And I don't know, man, I don't know, Scott, if you know people who do it but it it seems to be i just i say like i'm so bullish on it right in terms of its positivity um you know separate from the stock okay i'm just talking about the product and and i think that you know it's really really sad and what's going on here with the mental health crisis and covet is not helping obviously no um and i just want people to be educated and informed. And through responsible use, I'm under the personal belief, because of how it's helped me, on how microdosing can I really believe will eventually be proven out in the science and the medical field to show that it can help indeed.

So you take very small doses on a regular basis, sort of as if it was a medication, like do you take it like 8am every day or something like that? I mean, is it something that you do every single day in a tiny dose? So there are different protocols. And you know, the protocol that we recommend is a very simple one. It's a very simplified one, which would be one day on, you take a gram of a truffle, but keep in mind, that's only about 10%, 8 to 11% of that would be the psilocybin content. So you're not talking a huge amount. Then you would take two days off and then you would do one day on again. That's sort of just a simple recommended version of it. And again,

you wouldn't do it every other, every second day, every fourth day, basically. You would find what works for you. You can build up a tolerance to it. So a lot of the individuals and the big pioneers, like a guy like Paul Stamets, you may have heard him talk about it. He's got his own protocol. Other individuals like Paul Austin from the third wave's got protocols. Everyone talks about, you know, their microdose and some even promote a hero dose. We don't promote the hero dose. We just think that people can ease into it, find what works for them. And then't promote to HeroDose. We just think that people can ease into it, find what works for them. And then we want to actually get information from them eventually to see what does work for them to help be a part of the science to prove out.

So, I mean, do you find that people even from the very beginning are functional or do like, does it take some getting used to in the first day you're like talking to pink elephants in the in the dark bathroom or is it really so little that like um it has a similar boost so you know maybe someone who's adhd and takes ritalin or so you know a similar kind of effect yeah and again without making any medical claims i'm so sorry for sort of so i know you have to give the disclaimers but uh yeah for sure and i it sounds i don't want it to sound corny because I try to be as authentic as I can, but I have to do that stuff. You know, I would say that out of everyone I know, and now I'm talking about in like the hundreds of samples, it seems to overwhelmingly have the same effect for everyone, which is immediate, which is immediate in you're not seeing pink elephants. You're not getting distorted views of lights and your phone's not bending on you and things like this. It's almost like an after effect that later you're like, my goodness,

I really enjoyed last night. I really sat with my wife and we had a two-hour conversation and no one put up their guard and no one, we didn't freak out if the baby was crying in the other room we just sort of enjoyed living in that moment uh i enjoyed the day after they call it the glow period where you just felt more relaxed so you know i i said earlier about the kids like you sort of see life through kids eyes meaning like it takes off some tension for some reason, at least in the people I've spoken with. And it's not, your life isn't distorted. It's not, things aren't weird or crazy. You just, what I think it is personally, and I hope the science proves this out one day, and this is where I get passionate. I think we're actually all

egotistical human beings. I think we're like super self-indulgent. I think we've all wanted to become the next Instagram success story or the next, you know, like I need likes and I need this and I need that. And we become so self-indulged that we forget about our outside environments, including our family, including our dogs, including, you know, we're living in this like, you know, virtual world where we want our success. And for me, what I think the microdose is doing is it's taking off focus on us, meaning, you know, each, our individual selves, meaning us, and allowing you to focus on other things that you normally, especially us growing up in the eighties would focus on because things around us playing catch with your buddies, creating the next song, looking at the trees and not going, man, their ants come and eat us. They're actually just

beautiful. Like look at, look up once in a while. When's the last time people looked at stars? So I think it's taking focus off of us. And I think it's allowing us to appreciate the elements and the things that mean a lot to us around us better. And I think it's such a, I think it's so beautiful. Sorry, I'm talking a lot. I apologize. That's actually what you're supposed to do. So I mean, it's a really interesting take because I think anyone with young kids, as you touched on, we both have five and one year olds. So we're really, you know, we're really paddling the same boat here. And sorry to interrupt, you're an Air Jordan lover. And so am I, I'm like,

I have like a thousand hats. That's my, I have a weird head. So hats don't fit me right. Unfortunately, or I would, but, um. But it's interesting because I think that any parent, especially maybe of kids that age, probably finds it very difficult to connect with them or very difficult at least to turn off, as you said, everything else that's going on and really get down on their level and play. My daughter's like, come play such and such with me. And it's like, or I can look at the price of Bitcoin, but I have to force myself to put the phone down and pretend that I'm, you know, one of the Incredibles or whatever her fantasy of the day is. And I would love help doing that, you know, getting into that headspace because I find that it's almost like time for her to go to sleep by the time I finally

come around. So it really is interesting. And I think you touched on probably a big problem that a lot of parents have. And then you talk about our childhood where we didn't have any distractions. Right. I mean, like you said, I mean, I just had to come home before like it got dark. I was just out in the neighborhood all afternoon playing sticks with sticks as guns and pine cones as baseballs. And that, I mean, it sounds so ridiculous, but it was amazing.

Yeah. And listen, it actually makes me emotional to hear you talk like that because, and by the way, when I was doing some of the odd Bitcoin trading and altcoin trading, that's a market that never ran. So I can't even imagine the pressure that it's too... I remember, I was looking at it over my christmas holidays once i'm like this is too much for me i can't like i just wasn't putting it away um and you know the it's crazy but like the kids you you just go my goodness like because sometimes i'll get angry at my five-year-old or lose patience with him and and then you're like well why would i even ever lose pace five years old like he knows

nothing else other than what pops in his head at that moment and it just wants to and like she just wants to play with me it's like it's not none of it is misguided or you know yeah yeah and it does i honestly man it it it would like this i would actually say concretely because i'll tell you for me and other parents i know like it does it makes you just like really want to go, my goodness, I'll put all that other stuff aside. Cause it is the most important thing. And, and people around you are the most important thing, whether they're kids or your wife, or, you know, even, you know, microdose and go see your grandma, maybe, I don't know. How about like driving and, you know, doing adult things when you're doing it? Is there any sort of legal implications to that? Is it considered under the influence? Is it a small enough dose that it's not and you can basically fully function just with this slight edge?

It's a really good question. On the product side of things, we sort of say avoid the heavy machinery, right? Yeah. Avoid. Kind of like you would when you... Yeah. Or, you know, you avoid, kind of like you would when you, yeah, or, you know, just avoid, avoid. Yeah, same, same thing. And listen, I wouldn't encourage anyone ever driving,

doing that. With that being said, it does make it seem like it's a drug and then it would have these effects on you. So it's kind of this interesting balance here. Like, well, I thought you just said

it makes you live in the moment and more focused. Why wouldn't you say not to drive? I think part of that is I'm a publicly traded company, so I have to tell you that. Yeah, I was going to say, legally, I would think that's pretty much the message, right? Yeah. Yeah. And listen, there are some scientists, so if you ask them, they're like, well, what if you had four cups of coffee and drove? What if you had seven energy drinks? Is that stimulating to you too much to be driving um what if you you

know so you know what what if you were just literally working for two straight days and then you're a vehicle yeah so that's worse you know be care you know i wouldn't say drive but but uh we'll leave it be a responsible human person yes yes So you talked about obviously the, the distinction between the truffle and the, the mushroom. Is it, is there some like legal grounding that says if it's underground, you can use it. And if it's above ground, you can't, I've heard something to that effect. Yeah. In, in, in 2008, they sort of introduced the magic mushroom into the opium act. And the opium act is sort of banned substances. They never put the truffle on the banned substance list. So, and in 08,

you know, listen, it was, you know, put on there, there were some incidents that were negative incidents around the magic mushroom. And, and what I would say is this, is that when reported incidents of sort of any vice, meaning, Scott, do you know what the World Health Organization would attest to alcohol-related deaths around the globe per year? Do you have a number in mind? I don't have a number, but I know that it's absurdly higher than any of the other substances that we're talking about. Approximately 3 million people. You obviously saw what happened, the opioid crisis. So I think it was an unfortunate stigma.

And actually, that gets me in a little bit to Red Light Hall and the naming of the company, which is sort of interesting, which is it wasn't just to kind of capitalize on that being a known district and a known name. The origins of the red light district are actually quite wonderful. It was to end stigmas around sex work. It was to protect women in particular around sex work. It was to regulate an industry. And it was to, in another way, was to pay your, you know, you're supposed to pay your taxes so the governments can, you know, like, it's a business that you file for. And, you know, for us, the magic truffles are regulated industry. You pay a VAT tax. It's quite expensive, actually, like it's a business that you file for it. You know, for us, the magic truffles are regulated industry.

You pay a VAT tax. It's quite expensive, actually, in the Netherlands. It's 21%. I want to end the stigma around it, which is about the microdose and responsible use factor. And, you know, let's, let's sort of protect people in this industry carefully and, you know, make sure they're guided correctly. So, you know, I sort of went off topic, but, you know, this is where we are. Perfect. So obviously, and you can do it in Holland. What does it look like,

I guess, what is the regulatory landscape for expanding beyond there? I mean, do you have to literally like lead the charge and make sure that the laws are changed? Like, do you have to do that yourself? Or do you see that there's progress towards that? And you're willing to, you know, build this company on the back of what you see coming? It's a little bit of both. So of course, we would think of ourselves as lobbyists. And I don't want to confuse that with pioneers or long-term advocates, who I admire, by the way. There are individuals in the psychedelic space, much like there was in the cannabis space, that super paved the way for these things to happen long term and become legal, especially in Canada here.

And sometimes the advocates and the pioneers, they don't actually like the corporate guys who come in, raise money, try to market a brand and try to make investors money, obviously, and try to grow it that way. What I'd like to say is you need capital to have a successful business and you also need capital to help with the regulatory frameworks because the legal opinions and legalities into not only having a publicly traded company, but to ensure that these jurisdictions are actually legal where they say they are legal are frigging expensive.

So we're not like just the wild west of, oh, I'll start a website because it says we can sell this stuff. So we're doing it all the wild west of, oh, I'll start a website because it says we can sell this stuff. So we're doing it all like being self-regulatory than having regulatory bodies look at us. And, you know, ultimately, we do think there will be other markets that open up. Right now, anyone can Google and see that they say it's legal in Brazil. They say it's legal in Bulgaria. They say that magic mushrooms are legal in Jamaica, a certain other area, even Mexico, there's some interesting laws that say that it could be done favorably.

So, of course, as a company, we would want to expand this brand that we're testing slowly in the Netherlands, ultimately to other countries that would allow for it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you think that there's a future where this becomes like big pharma? The FDA approves it and one of these huge companies steps in and starts marketing it in some way, shape or form? Or do you think that we're so far away from that because of either the stigma or just the lack of research or whatever it is? It's also an amazing question. And listen, I totally believe that the research into the medical and scientific side of, in my case, psilocybin, which is what I understand, but then there's other psychedelics, as I mentioned earlier, need to be done.

My fear is this. I worry that if it's only a medical product and they don't look at it as recreational like we do with cannabis in Canada, where it started off medically and became recreationally available and still is and will always be. I think that we are doing a disservice to the humans that want it. Meaning that in responsible use and for adults who want to find access to magic mushrooms, they're going to find access anyway right you shouldn't need a prescription right you should i'm you got to give the people what they want it's about education and information that will make sure they're using the stuff correctly because by the way big pharma as great as it is it can also be terrible i think it's

more terrible right and and no i and and not only that it's an elite person's game how many people have access to doctors How many people have access to doctors? How many people have a time to spend two hours to see a doctor, get a prescription filled without it impacting the rest of the day because it's taking time away from work. And it becomes a farce anyways, because then doctors just start practices where they say, yeah, you have glaucoma, you're medically in need. And it's not, I mean, it doesn't serve the original intent anyways. And I'm not saying I mean, it doesn't serve the original intent anyways. And I'm not saying there's even anything wrong with those doctors, by the way, because I believe

that marijuana should be completely legal everywhere, honestly. But you just kind of, the government forces this like secondary market where people are just going to make sure it's readily available anyways, under the guise of the law. So I mean, as you said, it's just a big, you know, it's the pulling the wool over your eyes anyways. And you're right. And ultimately, it's still, you know, individuals capitalizing on it, whether it's governments or big pharma or the doctors that you mentioned prescribing it. And, you know, so it's really interesting and really delicate. But I always say you give the people what they want. And what I feel, Scott, is different from the days when we grew up was social movements are super powerful these days too, as we all know. And traditionally, they're powerful for a positive reason. Some may

see some as not right and mostly say, wow, this is progressing this world. We're giving a voice to communities who've needed a voice forever. And that to me is the most important thing. And I think you're going to see a voice of people who go, I want my plant based or fungi based medicines. And I just want it because it's given to us. It's coming from the earth. It's not being manipulated with. We know what we're getting. And it's helping my aunt. It's helping my brother. And I want it to help me. So I think a social movement over the next few years will be very powerful when it comes to psilocybin in my prediction, and that people are buying it illegal anyway. They're getting it illicitly through websites. There's no crackdowns. And to add to that, I also think that this defund the police

movement, whatever anyone's views are on that, and by the way, I can say I'm a strong supporter of police because I'm not brave enough to ever do anything like that. But when it comes to defund the police movements, where I think it's responsible is to defund the police against things like, you know, these petty drug crimes, you know, like having some magic mushrooms or having some cannabis. And, you know, we're going to see less crackdowns

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W O L F. Yeah. I mean, they're making their money on the war on drugs instead of doing it the more obvious way by just letting people have what they want in a sensible manner and taxing it. I mean, I wrote a paper in college on legalizing marijuana, but I did this thing in Florida when I was a kid in high school. It was called Ledge. And they sent Floridian high school students up to the Florida House of Congress. And we got to pretend to be congressmen basically for three days. So whatever. And the bill I tried to pass was legalizing prostitution. I was 17 years old. People thought

I was completely nuts. But I went in front of the house in Florida, all the adults, the congressmen everywhere and all the kids. And I presented a case for legalizing prostitution based on the ability to tax the revenue primarily. So, I mean, I've been a proponent of this forever. They thought I was nuts. Like I was a kid in Tallahassee, Florida. You're a visionary though. I mean, but this is why you have an amazing following.

And this is why you like these kind of nascent industries and emerging industries and ready to take risk with them and stuff. Because the system that has been taught to us is not the system in my mind that is working. And it's a flawed system. And it's just about stigmas. And it's about like wrapping your brain around, well, why do we think the way we've been wired to think? And once you wrap your brain around that and go, wow, I can think alternatively to just what's been told to me. I mean, this is, you know, you've been doing it obviously since you were 17. And I love these types of sort of creative thoughts as kids. But then, wow,

can we make this into viable businesses or viable ideas that governments follow along and regulate? So I applaud that, man. I think that's super cool that you obviously always thought this way. So you mentioned stigmas. aren't there some crazy conspiracy theories around mushrooms and psychedelics and kind of this movement listen there's there's there's you know i'm not a big hero dose guy where can you explain the hero dose by the way of course yeah where you would take a shit ton of mushrooms yeah um there's a lot of these guided therapy institutes coming up now, whether it's since since this I can never say that word. You might have seen the the Goop lab with Gwyneth Paltrow. It was like a show on Netflix and they go to Jamaica and do these heavy doses of psilocybin and they go into deep, dark depths of their past, their emotional kind of, you know, attack, you know, attaching

to their emotional being and then trying to let it out and explore who they are. Listen, to me, this is a lot. And maybe it's because I'm a very self-deprecating, open, honest guy and always dealt, you know, I'm neurotic by nature. So I deal with the shit as it happens. I think that this is some of the stuff that people believe psychedelics is really good for these uprooted, you know, issues that you can overcome. Listen, Scott, I, you know, one of the things I, you know, also got me into this is I did speak to an individual. He's a former hockey player, Dan Carcillo. He won three Stanley Cups, I believe all with the Chicago Blackhawks. And, and, and he was a goon on the ice. He was like a dude, he's nicknamed the car bomb. He was a guy that

would like, he's a crazy lunatic and maniac. Checking squad. Yeah. Oh yeah. And fighting and getting hit in the head too many times. And, you know, a bit of an abusive past that he spoke of, especially within, you know, growing up in the hockey system and stuff and crazy stuff. He says he attributes taking a hero dose of magic mushrooms to saving his life, meaning he was suicidal. And here's a guy who won three Stanley cups and it's probably worth, you know, at least in the day, millions of dollars based on his contracts that were disclosed. So, you know, you hear these stories of, and he also talks about how it reverses brain patterns and, you know, that's where the science comes

into it, which has helped his concussion syndrome and CTE and stuff. So really interesting science will go into it. Listen, I just want to be careful with the microdose brand for now, because this is where my understanding is. And I don't want to fool anybody. So when he asked me about, you know, the experiences of some, I say, you know, start slow, go low slow, go, go, start slow, go low. What's the expression? Start low, go slow. I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah. I had a roommate actually who, and now I'm blanking on the shaman's name, famous guy who followed him, went to like the desert in Mexico and did the whole, I think it was primarily peyote and psilocybin, but that, you know, and then every once in a while, he was another fellow DJ. We were living in Philadelphia and he would like, tell me he was off out for the day and not to make any noise. And he would lock himself in like a pitch black closet and do mushrooms. Sounds terrifying. It's terrifying to me, you know, but like, um, sounds, you know, sounds scary, but I do know, I know a lot of people who have, you know, done heavy psychedelics who say it's sort of like, there's two kinds of people in the world, those who have and those who haven't done it. And, you know, how it sort of expands your mind and opens your perspective. But I think that certainly for like a brand like you to, or any of these to recommend that Hero does people can trip out. I mean, there's a very, very, very realistic possibility that those people, especially if they're older and really

have mental problems could like have a very, very bad experience or just end up puking for seven hours. Yeah. And listen, you do have to be careful, especially, you know, if you're, if you're, you know, suffer from bipolarism or, or if you, um, you know, are using other medications or especially if you're pregnant, all this kind of stuff, like, you know, suffer from bipolarism or if you, you know, are using other medications, especially if you're pregnant, all this kind of stuff. You know, so people do have to be very careful. I will say that. But listen, I tripped out when I was in college with buddies and we would do it once a year. We would go north of Toronto, more in nature. And, you know, generally around people, there were pleasant experiences there. I don't know. My older age doesn't want to

go deep into that anymore that way and i think it's because the kids are around and you know we're so busy as it is i can't i don't have a day to recover you know like no so i think the micro doses will be really interesting for people to learn more about and and especially you know maybe it's actually a cool time for me to mention why i got this big headset behind me yeah please do because one of the things i want to be innovative and, you know, you as an innovative guy and tech guy in a way, like, you know, understanding all this stuff, how people connect these days is we want to create headsets. So we've hired a company called Radix Motion. It's a really cool scientist named Sarah Hashkes runs the company. And she also wrote a paper on psilocybin in the Netherlands when she graduated

university about how it connects to the brain receptors and all this kind of stuff. Amazing company. And she also wrote a paper on psilocybin in the Netherlands when she graduated university about how it connects to the brain receptors and all this kind of stuff. Amazing things. She's creating this headset for us right now, where eventually it'll be in the smart shops where we sell the truffle. Customers can come put it on. I guess I got to wipe it down now because of COVID pretty good. But you put it on. In Amsterdam, you wipe everything down, even pre-COVID, man. Come on. It's so true.

It's so true. And it will educate you on the truffle and its origins, but it will also sort of, through VR, virtual reality, put your mind into the space of what it will feel like to be microdosing. And we want to be that responsible as a company to say, like, by the way, if you don't like that experience, you shouldn't buy our product.

Like if it didn't, you know, if it just didn't work for you in a way that felt positive. And these are the types of things on how proactive we're trying to be as a company. And this and the tech side of things can really relate because you can one day potentially consume data from that too, which could be used for intellectual property, then to help prove out studies and help really with digital medicine in a way. It's interesting. So how do you, I mean, you obviously described the experience as more just like a focus and obviously maybe like you're more in tune with your environment and awareness. How do you replicate that digitally? Like how do you give that experience through the headset or is that you you you leave that to the professionals and it's it's an amazing question elon musk once said you know i don't have

a harvard degree but everyone i hire does and uh listen so true so so i'd like to think i'm trying to be an idea guy here sarah could explain that to you um i'm you know it's interesting right as we speak we're going through the script of it all and how it works. But I'm more than anyone excited to try it on to be able to share you with that answer more on a user experience as opposed to how did they program it to do that? Are there a lot of physicians who are starting to take interest in this and sort of push the narrative? Obviously, like in the marijuana business, you know, the science is there and it's really,

is psilocybin kind of like the stepchild right now that's not getting the attention or is it starting to really get that sort of build with the scientists and the doctor community? Yeah, I think we're seeing people supporting it a lot more in Canada. I actually apologize. I forget if I said this already.

They granted compassionate grounds access. Did I explain that to you yet? No, you did not mention that. Go ahead, please. Really interesting. Just about seven or eight weeks ago, our health minister in Canada granted compassionate grounds access for end-of-care patients, terminally ill patients, to use magic mushrooms. And of course, as a company and me personally, we totally applaud that decision and think it's unreal. Not to exploit it in any way and now try to sound like capital Todd here, but this is really the path that cannabis took in Canada, where in 2001, they granted cannabis for terminally ill patients, went into the medical side of things being prescribed, and then it was eventually legalized recreationally. So in a way that know, to answer your question, it's yes, it's taken notice.

It's set like opened up the door for these talks. There was an article, some doctors are now grouping together saying we want to prescribe magic mushrooms here in Canada. That just came out yesterday, a report of a group of doctors who did that. Oregon, there's a big vote happening on November 3rd in your country. And, you know, they're going to try to decriminalize it, but then also allow for it to be prescribed medically, to the best of my knowledge. And then, you know, what makes more sense than having an iMicrodose pack that you can, you know, prescribe to people? So, listen, we're really excited what the future holds in store. And Scott, you know, I think people are open to these talks. And I think more of the medical and scientific

communities are as well. I just hope that they're honest about the approach on who can get access to it and how they get access to it. Because it would be a shame to me if it was only to those who could get it prescribed through the medical system, because we all know that that's a tough process for a lot, for many. Yeah, you touch on an important point about access, because as you've mentioned before, again, like people are going to do it. Like all, as has been proved with every drug, substance, vice in history, it doesn't matter if you make it illegal, people are going to do it, right? But I live in America. If I wanted to try this, I would have to either know somebody, I assume, or go on the Internet and trust that wherever I'm getting it is real and quality. And that's a pretty big leap of faith, I think, for most people. Right.

Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because for someone who's been to America a ton of times, but haven't I haven't been, I guess, since, well, geez, probably about a year because of COVID and everything, and I hadn't been a few months before that. It's really interesting because we're always so ingrained in your politics and your lifestyle and just being Canadians. We're like that forgotten stepchild or something. I watch South Park. I know exactly how it is there but you know it's i guess what i'm saying is i think that we as canadians maybe because of the true legalization of cannabis now felt way more comfortable in talking about the openness of of drugs and and you know we see what's happening with cannabis like i i'm still in disbelief that you're just

not federally legalized for for cannabis right like i'm in disbel disbelief that you're just not federally legalized for for cannabis right like i'm in disbelief of that it's insane it's it's in like i i just don't and i heard uh biden yesterday actually said he he would decriminalize it i believe across every state and um uh i still think trump should have a wild card and just go confuse everybody last day going i'm legalizing marijuana it would help it would help he wouldn't lose a single voter if he did that. He might gain quite a few. So, you know, I guess to answer your question is like when it comes to drugs and how you would access it or try it, I think in Canada, people would say, I'll order online. You know, it's illegal, but they'd find that websites to do it. Whereas me now as a company, you're like, well, you know, hopefully

one day in three to five years, you can order for me legally. And I just worry about ordering online and somebody sends me like something crazy, you know, and you just don't get, it just, it's a big leap of faith, I guess. And so it, obviously we need to see it become legal and regulated for it to reach any sort of mainstream adoption, but it's amazing how many people talk about it and do it here. So it's not like they're not getting it. Listen, people are getting it. And people, well, listen, people get cocaine if they want it.

You know, like it's just it's so interesting how if you want access to something, you're going to find a way to get it. And I'm under the belief, much like your paper when you were 17 years old about legalized prostitution. It's like legalize the stuff so we can regulate it. And I'm under the belief, much like your paper when you were 17 years old about legalized prostitution, it's like legalize the stuff so we can regulate it. I mean, in Portugal, they decriminalized all drugs a few years back and they used to spend out of 100% of a budget, they used to spend 90% on enforcing and policing and all this stuff and then 10% on rehabilitation. And when they decriminalize it, they simply reversed that. And they spent 90% on rehabilitation and education and 10% on a little bit of policing and deaths were down, overdoses were down, addiction.

It's so obvious. I'm just thinking now back to when I was literally 17, like in my baggy, oversized, probably like bar mitzvah suit from years before standing up there talking about how they would be able to like regulate the testing of STDs with prostitutes in the United States. I'm wondering how the hell my parents let me get up there and do that. I was very popular. Well, listen, you should have stuck.

Everybody there knew who I was. For sure. You should have stuck in politics. Oh, but politics is terrifying. It's funny. I actually, listen, you should have stuck in politics. Everybody there knew who I was. For sure. You should have stuck in politics. Oh, but politics is terrifying. It's funny. I actually, today, I just finished recording with Brock Pierce, who you may be familiar with, but he's running for president in the United States. And we talked about that and how much it opens up your background, especially if you have as colorful a background as he does to just crazy scrutiny and whatever. So I don't know that I would,

I think politics is a little too terrifying for me, although it's crossed my mind in the past. You know, what's really interesting though, like about the opening up the backgrounds is, you know, part of me, listen, I like, you know, being, being a, I was a radio personality, as you know, for, for so many years, like I shared so much of my life in my real life. And listen, a lot of it wasn't, you know, very pretty for so many years, like I shared so much of my life in my real life. And listen, a lot of it wasn't, you know, very pretty. Some of the stuff I shared

and, and, uh, at times, you know, we were more shock jockey and weren't as compassionate or, or, or weren't as, you know, showing as much. And, and, but that's it. And this is the thing about like, I'm so sick of politics, finding stuff from 20 years ago and saying, well, that's who you are today because so different we're so that this is what evolvement is this is what growth is this what education and learning and getting a becoming hopefully a better human being is uh and i just think it's so it's very discouraging as you know um and i don't know it's the smear campaigns and this and that like what do we actually teach in our children so i don know, man. I don't want to sound corny because it's not like I'm a big, you know,

tree hugger either. But I just like, where's the balance here to like, people make mistakes. We fucked up once in a while. Can't we become better? And can't we just say, yeah, we've grown from that. That was a terrible decision. No 40-year-old should be judged on their college self. I mean, it's just, it seems like that should be obvious, but like, I didn't know shit about anything until I was in my late thirties. I mean, I don't think I made a single good responsible decision until I was already married and on my way to kids. Everything else was just like, what could I do to have the most fun or maximize my enjoyment? Which by the way, wasn't the reality of what was probably the most fun or maximize my enjoyment, which by the way, wasn't the reality of what was probably

the most fun as you touched on earlier with the bottle service and stuff. I mean, you did what you perceive to be fun, you know? But yeah, it's really unfortunate that like we all, and largely because of social media, we somehow have to answer for our past. I mean, I've definitely, I've been on Twitter since 2008. I don't delete all my old tweets, but I'm sure there's some stuff there I wouldn't be too proud of, but hey, here we are, you know? And you know, you said it best because everyone has something that I'm sure they regret. Nobody is a perfect angel. And it amazes me the hypocrisy and the fact that people don't want to say, hey, let's start with me first and then worry about others as opposed to starting with everybody else. And, and, well, I've done nothing wrong and you know i remember seeing

a concert way in the day you too um i remember i think this is what the sign said it was like they had a sign right at the concert this would have been like in the probably the early 2000s actually and it said everyone is racist but you and and you know they you know it was like it was a way of them already like predicting all this stuff like you can blame everybody else for everything but yourself and uh you know like look to how you can be a better person first and and and you know like not to tie it back into a cheesy plug here but maybe microdosing is is what that does for you in my opinion it might be able to help you become a better person too and not just just want to blame others. So how, I mean, how does this, we touched on it earlier, but how has this become like a worldwide phenomenon? Is it just, is it jurisdiction by jurisdiction and country by country and they

fall like dominoes or is there some other way to circumvent that long and ridiculous process? Yeah, I think that it takes time. I mean, it's still a speculative industry. It's very nascent and you know, obviously I would like everyone to go and support it, but you know that it takes time. I mean, it's still a speculative industry. It's very nascent. And, you know, obviously, I would like everyone to go and support it. But, you know, it takes time to build a business and it takes time for governments to come around to allow this type of business into their countries. So country by country, lobbying effort by lobbying effort, hopefully more people get behind it. Those social movements I spoke of earlier. And listen, I could see this like a Red Bull one day, you know, Red Bull took years to build. You're from the club scene, you know. Gives me wings. Yeah. And, you know, started off as a, as a small, like, you know, the, the Austrian owner, I forget his name now, found it in Thailand, I think, but I'm not sure if it was Thailand, but this is so crazy that you're talking about this because the first time I had Red Bull ever, I was in Amsterdam at a club and it was like in a vial. It wasn't a drink.

It was like it was another little screw top glass vial and they poured it into my vodka. I was at some club to like three o'clock the next day and I was drinking Red Bull the whole time. I was literally just drinking like alcohol and Red Bull and I stayed up for like a day and a half and I couldn't believe it. I thought it was the greatest thing that was ever invented, but that was in Amsterdam. They were ahead of that. They were the first place that I can recall hearing about it outside of, I think it was, I think it was literally like the Red Bull, it was the logo and then it was written in Thai. Yep. It's so funny, man. Like, I don't know, I'm sort of all in the serendipitous stuff and, you know, weird connections, but I didn't actually try my first one in Amsterdam,

but I landed in Amsterdam and I flew from Amsterdam. I would have been, I guess, about 18 years ago and I flew to Greece and I tried my first one in Mykonos, but on the same trip, like just, you know, so really it's funny you say that. Yeah. I think it was probably 2000 or 2001 for me. We might've crossed paths in Amsterdam. What an amazing place to go visit at that age though. I mean, it's still such just an amazing city on so many levels. But it's cool that you get to do business there. And I mean, COVID has got to be a huge issue for you but

how much time do you generally try to spend over there yeah i just got back from there um i was there for so from canada we can still fly out to the eu um i don't think you can out of you guys are allowed to do stuff that's cool well yeah we can move we're not locked down um and you listen i flew i was a little anxious i'm not gonna lie it's like actually super anxious to fly I wouldn't fly right now personally if I unless I had to you know but I put on like the scarf and the mask over the scarf but you know listen once I got on the plane actually you know the first week I was very anxious is the truth and then I microdosed a ton over there I was like ah listen I'm growing like full full Star Wars sand people on the plane and just exactly that's actually exactly what i look like

um and and i love beyond amsterdam i actually love the country the netherlands like like i love the directness i love their they're very educated you know they're very um just fun to talk to they're very communicative and and you know they like conversation they're i love directness and people and uh beautiful. They're all beautiful. They're really beautiful. Intimidating. Yeah, very, very intimidating. And as you said, open.

So the traveling was good. And the only thing I was scared of is at the time, no one cared to wear masks or anything. Like they were, I was sort of like way more, you know, protective over on this side of things. But the microdosing for me helped. It's just like, listen, I'll just be careful. What else can I do? Fly over there and you can do your own product legally. It's a nice, nice bonus. So is the focus now on expanding within the Netherlands first

and basically just dominating the entire country and then from there expanding as possible? Totally. And that's a neat thing about having some capital behind you is you can put marketing dollars into it so you can sort of bring awareness to maybe an industry that wasn't really aware outside of the psychedelic supporters and and you know we want to hit that kettle one drinker we want to hit them away drinker we want to you know really bring it into a young professional a creative uh you know mind a young ceo uh you know, into family, family people. So like, let's like normalize this and let people tell us themselves what they feel

about it. Our whole sort of campaign, I don't have it here, is like about I microdose because we want to find out from you what it is why you like to microdose. We can't really tell you why it is. So we want to hear what it is from you that you experience. And yeah, let's hit like, you know, we want to put some money into, you know, influencers and careful ways of kind of underground cool marketing. It's not like we're going to do radio or TV ads or anything, but, you know, get it out there. And the truffle industry itself seems to be very supportive of us coming into play here because of the fact that we are opening it up to at least more eyes. And, you know, like if I was making jeans and I could promote jeans to new people, they would end up buying other brands of jeans too, I'm sure. So I think they're excited.

Of course. Yeah. I mean, the rising tide, right? I mean, any path towards legalization or more of these products being seen as mainstream is good for you, I would have to imagine. I want to ask you a question. Yeah, please. Because it's something we're talking about internally as a company right now on the website where you can buy it only in the Netherlands. I want to accept Bitcoin. So it's one of the things we're going through.

What's your advice to new young companies about using Bitcoin as a sort of a payment processing plan? Well, you're lucky you're not in the United States, I would say, because, you know, every sale of Bitcoin, every time you transact in Bitcoin here, it's a buy or sell and becomes a taxable transaction. So it's a little bit of a headache to do it in the US, but I don't think that's the case in most places. There's actually an amazing company that I'm working with for just that type of thing for my newsletter. So my newsletter, I accept crypto like manually on the side, but we're trying to find a way to do a recurring subscription and, you know, have it be automated. So I don't have to like remind these people for $15 a month that I need to pay because the main system's automated. And they're building that for me. It's a company called U-Trust. And that's what they do.

They do Bitcoin and crypto gateways, probably a huge layup for you guys because you're not based in the US. But most people who are accepted in the United States, like Coinbase, I know has a way that you can, you know, you accept Bitcoin, it immediately converts to dollars and it comes into your account as dollars so that you don't have to deal with sorting out the taxable part of it. But yeah, I will put you in touch with those guys because they're building this custom solution for me. But they're already with tens and tens of thousands of people around the world as the gateway for accepting crypto. I think it's so, so important that businesses open the door to that. Even if people don't transact in it initially, A, it's a great marketing tool for you just to be the one who's doing it.

And by the way, what you're doing goes hand in hand with the crypto mentality. And B, it's just the future. Money is going to be digital one way or another. So you need to start accepting it. There's a lot of companies that do it, but I mean, I just happen to have a personal relationship with them because they're doing it for me and it's awesome. And I mean, they have like, like I said, I mean, hundreds of thousands of people transact through them, but you got to do it. No, that's great advice. And then I'll follow up for sure with you right after this like what you're obviously a very bullish kind of you know crypto guy and i've been following a lot i mean i love i love how you do it you're you're i love your social media i just think it's really good and your following is phenomenal and

obviously um you know people like your genuine approach but your brain too um you're obviously you're bullish but like really bullish like you know what are your thoughts i i ask because i i i dare not like do the bold price predictions. But that's like, I think the stigma of like, if you're super bull, you have to be out there saying like, it's going to be 100k next week or something. I'm like, now I'm just very bullish on it conceptually, like the importance of it with what we see with governments and all the just insanity of monetary policy and just the way that the world is going. Like, I think you just need to have a little something to yourself that they can't take away at the very bottom level. So regardless of the price of it, I think it has a

true value to each person as like, I mean, you know, I think I had someone on the show called named Mark Yusko. I think he called it schmuck insurance. And I think that that was a pretty apt definition, but I'm also very bullish on price. I don't know when or how or what, and I don't know what will stand in the way. Same. I mean, like I said, it's very, a lot of parallels to what you're doing. There's the government regulation could stop it or, you know, slow it, I should say. I don't think it could stop it. But like, I think that if you invest in Bitcoin now and maybe a couple others, you'll be very, very happy in 10, 20 years. I haven't, I mean, and I like to hear that it's like an investment, like long-term and I would say it's like what a Buffett would say about,

you know, a company he would put money into. Do you, cause I used to follow it, but, you know, just been so distracted with, with the business and the kids and everything. So I haven't really been doing as much research as I used to do. But is there still volume and trading? Is that still pretty strong? Yeah. It's increased. And I think there's a lot more institutional and big money that's either here or interested. It's interesting. in 2017, obviously, we were all here for the mega bubble trend where it was like your hairdresser was telling you to buy Ripple and your Uber driver was talking about the future of money. We don't hear that now. And there's no real narratives, but the price is still over $10,000 a Bitcoin. So to me,

it's a much more real and authentic movement this time. It's like the real money, there's no real FOMO and hype around it in that way. And also, you hear about it every day now. It's where you want to be with microdosing, right? Where it's just like, there's an article about it and it doesn't even change stuff much because it's become part of the accepted vernacular. It's a real asset that people consider. You just don't hear that like it's going to zero and it's going to die crap anymore. I think it's just being viewed as a store of value and a nice hedge that people can put some money away for the long term. It's actually a great analogy you just gave me that I never even thought of.

Looking at one sort of a tangible product you consume, it is a very similar, you're right, feel where it's a word that people know. Yeah. In 2016, if Bitcoin was mentioned in Forbes, the price would change by like $2,000. And now it's mentioned in Forbes and CNBC and stuff every day, right? I mean, and there's big companies like Fidelity that are the hugely bullish on this, that are some of the largest financial companies in the country. So I think that, um, I think it's just a really, really good place. I think that fear of it, like dying has somewhat dissipated, even though I never had that fear. You know, I think that that

was a, certainly a public perception. So I, I mean, I just think it's just a really, really important part of the financial system and one very small way, I guess, to control think that that should be a possibility in terms of what we're seeing now with election fraud and craziness going on there? till the election. And we have all the controversy around mail-in ballots. I mean, why do we even have mail anymore? Anyways, but like, why is mail a thing? Like, why do I go out to my mailbox and get like 17 spam things from catalogs and garbage? I mean, nobody wants to see that. But Brock Pierce told me that today or yesterday, the first ever vote was cast on a phone on the blockchain legally in the United States in Idaho or something. It was either Wyoming, Idaho, me that today or yesterday, the first ever vote was cast on a phone on the blockchain legally in the United States in Idaho or something. It was either Wyoming, Idaho, Colorado, I'm blanking. And it's actually, that's being done here.

At least one vote was cast that way in some manner. I need to look into it. And it was literally, it's like on my agenda, look into that. Then I got on with you. So yes, I mean, why wouldn't you want your votes to be secure and provable and accessible and easier? Like, why do I have to go to a voting booth to vote? Really? Yeah, no, I listen, I, I, I, I in concurrence with you clearly. And I just wish that individuals who understand the types of things that we're talking about,

I wish that it could be somehow, I don't know, it just feels like there's so much greed in everything that that's what limits this real true success. And it's just a shame. I'm sort of rambling, but it's a shame that there aren't more visionaries that go, wow, why aren't we fixing flawed systems? Why aren't we helping human beings all across the board? Well, I think that fixing those flawed systems is bad for the people that are running those systems. How much money do people need though? That's the other thing. And I was like, this is what I don't understand.

Yeah. Money and power. And when you're a politician at the top of the line, the easiest way to maintain your position is not to change much. Yeah, you're right. To keep the slog through the mud. And I think that that's a big part of it. And that's not a, I don't think that's a partisan statement. I think it's just the nature of the machine that's been built. And I think we're way past there being much interest in fixing it from the people who are benefiting from it. Yeah. And listen, the only thing I'll say is I sometimes think to myself, I'm like, what happens if one day, you know, I became a billionaire? Would I

still think the same way that I think now that if I became a billionaire, I'd give more back, I'd be a nicer human being? Or would I be more paranoid? Would I be more, you know, greedy with the money? And would I, because so many people are coming after you from it, or the governments are trying to take it away. So like, I sometimes do think that, you know, while we, we, we maybe stereotype how billionaires are greater powers, does that mean that we wouldn't be that way either? You know, I like to think like that. I would still like, I like to think I'd be a better human, but I don't know. I, you know, I hope so. There's a famous saying, I don't remember the exact quote, but it's basically that money amplifies who you are. It doesn't change you. You know, they say money changes you,

but it really amplifies you. So a dickhead becomes like 10 times the dickhead with 10, 10 times the money, you know, and, and a good person probably doesn't become a bad person because they get money. But I think that it probably, if you're, if you're somewhat paranoid, it probably markedly amplifies your paranoia. And if you're really a do-gooder, you probably have that internal guilt where you are rich and need to give it all away. I can't speak to it because I'm not a billionaire, but I think it just makes you a more amplified version probably of what you are, would be my assessment. And honestly, man. I was going to say more hats and more Air Jordans.

Yeah. Well, I would have so many Jordansans but i've actually been getting rid of those over the year it's like i'm down to just like the the core classic retro like threes fours and fives and stuff some ones the ones that i loved when i was a kid and couldn't have you know yeah it's so funny man yeah i think that uh you know i think that the billionaires will be the ones that the and i have this this came up with brock too and on a lot of podcasts, but that's who the people with the pitchforks are coming for first. So they should want the change into a happier society and to fix the systems because at the end of the day,

we've seen it for years, you can only build so many walls and buy so many guns and things if the entire system collapses and your money is in that system and your possessions are in that system, does it, you know, I mean, look at the, you know, World War II, I mean, whole societies of rich people had their possessions stripped from them and sent off, you know, and it didn't matter how rich or powerful you were. Listen, I don't want to get too conspiracy-ish and stuff but uh you know i read all these things and you know even in canada i saw someone did a report on how they ordered like 36 000 uh cans of tear gas and in set up land for internment camps and stuff and like i'm like

real like you know like just like nothing would surprise me yeah i don't know if it's true yeah i just like the realm of possibility in my mind. you should take away a work ethic and a drive in people. And I don't think that being a capitalist is an evil thing, but you got to be able to find some balance in it all. And I don't necessarily know if like universal basic income is that balance, but I would like to think that the balance is a combination of just taking care of human beings who need taking care of right now, while creating this equality and a basis for people to work hard and achieve success without limiting that. And it sounds easy to say in two sentences, but... Well, I don't think that anyone has a monopoly on talent, right? I think there's equal talent

everywhere in the world. So the thing that's lacking is opportunity and access. So even whether it's about healthcare or UBI, I don't know, I have mixed feelings on, on those some, some topics, but at the end of the day, like everybody should have the same opportunity to, uh, you know, be their best self. I mean, that would be true capitalism in theory, right? Is that, uh, everybody has a fair shot, go, go make it happen. But there's, that doesn't really exist in this world, right? I mean, there's very few people have the real access and the opportunity to get, to get lucky, right. To be in the situation where you can have luck, because if you live in the middle

of Africa somewhere and you're the best programmer or you would be the Elon Musk over there, but no, but you can't even get someone on the phone. It doesn't matter. Right. So. Yeah. And again, you know, this is interesting, but you know, we're someone on the phone it doesn't matter right so yeah and again you know this is uh interesting but you know we're so back to the self-indulgement aspect of human beings right now it's like you know sometimes people forget how bad others have it too you know so you know stop stop crying you know and playing a victim too much and think about my god there's a lot of people on this planet that are worse off than you and you do have this opportunity so you know i think guys like us come from very humble beginnings. I don't know

you very well, but I feel like we're telling very similar stories where my rich friends could afford the Jordans that I couldn't. And that's exactly why I got them later in life. Like exactly. I think that's, I had one pair of fives and I have like one picture of me from childhood wearing these fives. It's like my favorite picture. I was like, I did have Jordans. But you know, like, so, so it's a good balance. And I, I hope, I hope we figured out for our children. And, you know, I, I believe that what we're doing one day could hopefully help be a part of the process and helping with some mental health. And I hope that can be proven out.

I think that's a big aspect of it. And I hope that, you know, through helping with people's mental health allows people minds to open up on all sides, saying like, let's just be better to each other here and figure it out, man. But it's a long way to go. And your leaders, man, they're vicious. I don't even want to know what you guys think of us. Well, we're too caught up in it. My dad is obsessed dad is obsessed. Like CNN's on, I know you get a run soon. Sorry. Um, my dad's like, okay, cool. He's like, doesn't stop seeing. I'm like, dad, how is this changing your day to day? Like, like it's,

it will not impact you. It's also not news. It's, it's interpretation of events, right? It's somebody's hot take on what's happening and is not actually news. When we were young, like they reported news. You had like these serious Dan Rather and Peter Jennings guys up there who just told you what happened. And then they didn't invite in seven experts who know nothing about everything to discuss the nuance. It's just I mean, it's just not news. It's just not news. It's it's it's, you know, daily talk show.

Yeah, it's it's exactly it's like entertainment tonight, but which is politics. And I don't know, man. I wonder if there's... Listen, I like to think of everything in life as a chart, as like a stock chart or an altcoin chart or Bitcoin chart. And there's balances. There's turns, there's pivots. There's just... Eventually, I think something has to change. They all trend up. Yeah. They all trend up if you're talking about the markets in general. So, I mean, yeah. It's like, as you talked about, like social change is coming. Like I don't, whatever political side you're on, you're going to be on the wrong side of

history in 50 years if you're not on the right side of these social issues. I'm not even saying that you're right or wrong, but the train has left the station. So, it's like you said, it's like a chart. The Great Depression was this big valley, but if you look at the Dow Jones chart, it does nothing but up if you zoom out far enough. And gay marriage and marriage equality and things like that, these social issues, they're only going in one direction. That's actually a really great way to look at it. It's got a chart up. It might be really bad for 10 or 20 years, and it might try to reverse, but I think it's proven. I mean, you look at the history. I mean, we went from slavery in this country to women's suffrage

to equal rights. I mean, these obvious things are going to happen with time. It's just matter. And in our lifetime, I mean, I remember I was in New York City the day that they like legalized gay marriage and like was at work DJing at a club, like in a predominantly gay neighborhood. And it was like, I mean, it was like New Year's Eve for 10 days when that happened. And it was an amazing thing to see. And those things are not going to be reversed if temporarily, not permanently. I think, I just think that it only trends up. Well, we need more, you know, not that we're not young anymore, but more younger people like leading the charge here because so young.

What a world we live in, but yeah, hopefully it becomes better. And, and, and, you know, such admiration in those who fight for it to, to, to get better. For sure. It's a lot of great people out there who, who. So really quick, I know we are definitely up against it, but I just, something came to my mind. You were talking about, you know, hopefully it'll be better for our kids. So you talk about obviously like being in a space of psychedelics, how do you like in a world where maybe it's not so wildly,

widely accepted as your kids get older and become teenagers, if it's still that sort of, how do you explain to them what you do for a living? Yeah, I love that question. Listen, you're very good at this. You joked when we started that I was the radio. You're awesome, man. This is great, great stuff. Because I've said I'd love that question a lot of times, great questions. you know listen I'm just I'm really a very open book and and you know even my wife might disagree with my parenting style because I treat my five-year-old sometimes maybe even too adult-like so I just talked to him about what I'm doing in life as I'm doing it and and he might not grasp it or

understand it and some might think that's irresponsible, but I think, well, at least I never lied to him. So, you know, and everything comes down to information and education. So it's how you can in, you know, each year they, you know, I already think the five-year-old's like brighter than I was when I was 12. I don't know if you feel like that with your kids. 22, yeah. Yeah. Like it's actually insane that their ability to retain knowledge and sort of grasp it and actually understand things. I. It's actually insane that their ability to retain knowledge and sort of grasp it and actually understand things. I think it's the emotional stuff they don't understand for a very long time. Information they actually process quite well. Sponge. Yeah. Sponge. It's unreal. And, you know, I think that though, much like we might've thought of as cannabis, like, wow,

this stuff's going to be legal one day. And yet here it is in my country and a lot of your states and stuff and you know like this is how i think he's gonna look at psilocybin now so why not let him you know understand it and uh like listen i you know he he knows that daddy has taken a microdose and i you know but by the way he shouldn't think that is any different as is a big cup of coffee in the morning. Well, yeah, a cup of coffee. Yeah, for sure. So it's just a matter of stigma. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and I think it's a generational thing as well. I'm sorry, mom and dad for saying this. I'm outing them. But I remember my parents telling me a story that like my mom said, you know,

they only smoked weed once and they got paranoid and someone like tried to jump out the window. You know, they were like hippies, March on Washington, everything. But then like that story came up another night and my mom told it, my dad was like, we weren't smoking weed, we were smoking hash. I was like, oh yeah, you smoked weed one time, but you, yeah. Yeah. So I think that, you know, like that, that generation would never share with their children and most of our generation wouldn't share with their parents, probably what they have experienced. But I think that obviously times are changing. Yeah. And the interesting thing is the, and I brought it up earlier and listen, I have two and maybe three glasses of wine almost every night. Like I drink, I like my wine because it

just helps take a little bit of an edge off for me. But I think that is the worst. And it's so ironic because that's the thing that, oh, your kid's like 10, have a sip of the beer. You know, like everyone's done that. Like this is the worst in my statistically proven, the worst, not in smoking, obviously cigarettes, but like, so, you know, joy from smoking a cigarette. That's like a complete waste of health. Oh, I know. I know. It's not even a pleasure product really. I know some say it is, but listen, I just be honest with the kids is what I say. I don't care. And they're going to figure it out and learn about it anyway. But it's not to say, hey, man, go try it. No, this is daddy stuff. And let them figure it out later. Yeah, this is adult beverage, right? I got it. So where can everybody follow you and keep up with Red Light, what you guys are doing?

Thank you so much, Scott. So I guess we're at redlighttruffles.com and that's kind of our corporate page and a little bit of what we see is the vision of the future. But if you are in the Netherlands, we're at imicrodose.nl where you can buy our product only in the Netherlands if you're 18 plus. And then on Twitter, it's an old radio name. And, you know, I could tell you about it another day. I saw it.

I got a chain. I don't know. Cause I don't, it might. I love it. You gotta keep it forever. I guess I have to. I am, I am Toddy Tickles. So Todd Shapiro is my name.

Toddy Tickles was an old radio name. I stuck with it. Like I, you know, joined when you did around 08 or something and it just stayed with me. So I. Toddy Tickles was an old radio name. I stuck with it like I joined when you did around 08 or something, and it just stayed with me. So I am Toddy Tickles, and then I think we're at Red Light Holland and at imicrodose.nl, or just imicrodosenl. And then if you're into the stocks, and please do your due diligence, everybody. I'll never give you projections or financial advice or any of that stuff,

but it is TRIP on the CSE, and then TRUFF, T-R-U-F-F, on the OTC, on the pinks. And we're trying to uplist onto the OTCQB. And then if you're in Germany, 4YX. But listen, we got a good team of people behind us and really, really excited about just starting this business and trying to grow to the point where I think we all see where the vision goes one day. Awesome. And we're going to talk offline more about this because I definitely want to

dig in deeper to what you guys are doing. But I have to just say, this is definitely one of my favorite conversations I've had by far. Definitely the most comfortable because sometimes, as you know, as a radio host, sometimes it's just very difficult to get there with someone when you're asking them questions and stuff. So I appreciate your openness and how comfortable it was made it a real pleasure for me to talk to you. No, Scott, I'm grateful. I mean, I just, you know, I think I started falling before five months ago. And I just, you got this great way about you. And it's, it's, it comes across as real. And I love people are self deprecrecating but confident. And I think you're nailing it.

And you've got great engagement. Your people love you. So keep kicking ass. And hopefully you can keep making some of us money too. Thanks, man. So we'll revisit this down the road a little farther when things progress. Thank you again.