The Wolf Of All Streets - Market Bloodbath: Is This the End of the Bullrun? | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

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Boyard, what do you think of our title today? Is it dramatic enough? I was just laughing. I mean, the team said we're really excited about this one. And I know why now. It's very important. You know, sometimes the hosts we contribute seem to do an amazing job. They get the clips perfect. Sometimes I show up right when it's happening because I've been doing my YouTube show. And I laughed out loud when I joined today. Is this the end of the bull run? I don't know if we have a subjective

definition of bloodbath for crypto. I would say a 10% down portfolio day maybe is a solid bloodbath. It's like nicked yourself shaving like we're like down a little bit uh you know listen all coins have looked awful for for months i think it's fair to say across the board except for you know certain baskets but like when bitcoin's trading at 65 and it had dipped just a month ago to what 56 i think it's kind of fine yeah i mean it's not a competition for me i mean i look at my portfolio i'm like okay great this is a bloodbath i can take it we're still in i think at least we got we don't need to fight over whether it's a bloodbath i think is this the

end of the bull run i'm gonna say no yeah nothing's happened right no listen i think that we've talked about it like here everybody kind of knows probably our positions generally but the expectation i think for the last three months at least for me and some others was we're just kind of really bored in the summer like the having cycle and this is what happens you had time-based capitulation you get bitcoin in a range for five six months people freak out it's all over we're dead and uh they sell and then october it goes up and they uh have fun staying poor i mean isn't that yeah isn't that the crypto cycle i don't know it's almost like we could have sold in may and gone away for a bit sold in march and gone

away though right so we we got we got front run by selling in may that That's the problem, I think. Next time. Whatever. I think that I haven't. I hope Rand joins because I don't really... And you do actually, Lord. I think you follow the meme market pretty closely, right? Yes, I do. How's that looking right now? That's been sort of because we had, even a month ago, people were saying

you have this barbell theory in crypto, right? All of the old altcoins and stuff, unless they happen to get like a quick AI pump or something, were sort of have been suffering. They're still down 90% from last cycle. But you had memes on one side of the barbell and Bitcoin on the other. I love how I've become the fucking meme guy. Well, you did launch one and then start a meme video. I mean, you can you know, you might have, you might need to own that

for a little while. It could be temporary. But I mean, you launched a meme coin. And you know, that's a meme news network. I would say that's bigger than the meme to be quite honest, if we're being fair. It's huge. What's the question? So what's the question sir what's the question i think the question i haven't even looked because i don't track that part of the market but as we have this quote-unquote bloodbath we're laughing about our title right before you got here um our it looks like memes are also suffering pretty bad now like we don't have any memes are getting murdered memes are

getting murdered murdered murdered murdered i have no sector right now that's kind of outperforming on the downside, right? You want to hear a joke? You want to hear a joke? Someone tweeted at me. Not really tweeted at me, but he said, I'll read it to you. He said, fuck, Ryan, can't you take some pointers from Andrew Tate? He's talking about gummy. He's doing a better job than run at this point.

Now, I think what he means is that I must wear those, like, silk boxer shorts that show your winky and smoke a cigar and make videos about how gummy needs to go and how I'm going to burn, like, 80% of the supply of gummy, right? But it's not happening. I'm not doing that shit. I think you have to also be like horribly offensive to women and convince a bunch of basement dwelling losers that they could ever talk to a woman right for money exactly yeah exactly exactly he has i mean what what's

crazy is as i i've actually removed x from my phone completely which is funny because i have another phone that i just use for spaces. I find it to be such a – I've always found social media to be a massive time suck. It's the only one I've had left for years, but I can't even read Twitter anymore. This is that part of the cycle where people are so bored they just go to war with each other and everybody hates each other. You should watch my show um today because that's exactly what i spoke about today i spoke about why everyone's fighting on crypto twitter and the reality is that i think there's there's a tweet it wasn't my tweet i

can't take i can't take credit for the tweet but the tweet says that the the chart of why everybody's fighting is the total three against Bitcoin. So if you look at total three against Bitcoin, you can see that the total three is completely bleeding against Bitcoin. And that's what everybody is getting so upset about, is that the altcoins are bleeding against Bitcoin

and just going down, down, down. And that's the chart that's got us all fighting. So you're saying that everyone's massively overexposed to all points. Yeah, go ahead, Lloyd. Yeah, I think that's true. But the other thing to think about is that these things are low liquidity. So when they go up, they go up fast. And when they go down, they go down fast. And a lot of the attention, I think, right now in the meme space is just bad actors.

And I think that sort of throws a lot of money into things that move quickly, and then it moves out of things that were sort of steadily moving up. So you see some of the more sturdy meme coins also going down. But that, I think, will springboard in the other way, too. I think the lesson is to stop listening to the grifters. Yeah, but not only do they go down fast in the case of some of these they don't come back right let's say if bitcoin drops fast you don't worry about it right yeah that's what i mean i mean if you're if you're listening to the grifters when they go down that's because your grifters no longer holding the token anymore or they did

their thing already as opposed to like a community token like you know mog or pepe or something like that where you've got, you know, an actual community and then the token goes up and down, of course, but there's someone there to buy it up who wants it at the end of the day. Ran, now I really feel like I need to watch your show. You should watch it. It was a really good show. One of my, one of my good ones. I don't do many good shows, but that was one of the good ones. It's fine. None of us do, but Market shows but uh that was one of the good ones it's fine none of us do but market blood yeah i mean speaking of shows i mean

scott i'm gonna i'm gonna talk to you about something so you know like i like i watch i watch a lot of your shows uh sometimes you're in the same time as me so i don't know if you get to watch them live but like today the mood in the market is so fucking red and your thumbnail is like one million dollar bitcoin like you ever heard the saying like read the room bro yeah well my reading of the room is to zoom out and don't give a shit what's happening today right and so bernstein says a million dollar bitcoin in 10 years or kathy wood talks about it in 20 30 of those i mean that's the view of my show is don't think i think's happening today. I think you need to up your thumbnail game, bro. I think you need to plug in better on the thumbnails.

I think you need to. Yours today was terrifying to the point where actually Misha, my producer, like sent me your thumbnail today and said, what did he say? Creepy as fuck. That's what he said. You had like the red eyes and you're crying and you look like you like are a zombie from an apocalyptic movie but it gets it works it works look at you you're burning a ledger wait was your ledger on fire like uh darth vader when he gets the emperor at the end that's sweet man that's sweet yeah i can't i just can't i can't i can't i'm amazed i love you guys for it it's mine are just like me smiling

and saying bitcoin's going to a million dollars. I can't read them. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. Read the room, bro. No one's going to believe you if you tell them today that Bitcoin's going to a million dollars. That's when you need to tell them. I believe you.

You should have a better thumbnail. Yeah, it needs to be me with really green eyes diving into a mound of ledger wallets like Scrooge McDuck at the beginning of DuckTales. That would be better. That would be better. If you want to get like 100,000 views on the show, just put Emmy on the thumbnail. And let her just say, Bitcoin's going to a million dollars. I've been trying to get her to just do my shows for you but she will not come on i dare you to put on a thumbnail i bet you it's the highest click-through rate of any thumbnail that you've had oh my god if i put her out and then did like four times the views and she didn't

show up it would be hilarious um why not okay i mean you can you can always say that just put it put a picture of of of her on your on your desk when you burn your broadcasting and she'll be there but you know not not daily uh yeah whatever just make her my background or something he's talking about my wife for anybody who doesn't know but yes uh she she's very popular in this crowd uh let's talk about the market here right right, in general. So we laughed at the beginning, Ran, that we have this title, Market Bloodbath, this is the end of the bull run.

And, you know, a month ago, Bitcoin had dipped to 56. We're still sitting at 65 here. Kind of much ado about nothing, but I think you made the best point. The bloodbath isn't in sideways Bitcoin. The bloodbath is literally everywhere else. But is this like time-based capitulation around the market or is there something more here? I mean, there is a bloodbath in memes, you said, right? So I mean, what do people think? There's a bloodbath in anything that's not

Bitcoin. And people are also thinking that there's a bloodbath in Bitcoin. I don't think that there's a bloodbath in Bitcoin. I mean, it's down from 74,000 to 65,000. It's not a bloodbath in Bitcoin. I don't think that there's a bloodbath in Bitcoin. I mean, it's down from 74,000 to 65,000. It's not a bloodbath. And it wasn't even fast. It was like slowly, slowly. Come on, man up. You want to be in crypto? You've got to be here for the...

You've got to be here for... You know, like someone said to me once, he said, look, if you're going to get into crypto full-time, I want to give you one piece of advice. And I said, okay, what's the piece of advice? He says, going to get into crypto full-time, I want to give you one piece of advice. And I said, okay, what's the piece of advice? He says, when you get into crypto full-time, you have to resolve that you're stepping onto a roller coaster. And if you want to be on that roller coaster for a long period of time, you've got to learn to enjoy the ups and the downs of the roller coaster.

And, I mean, that's exactly every time that I feel like I'm not having fun here. I always think, okay, we're on the roller coaster. And right now the roller coaster is going up the hill. And it's the part that you don't really enjoy. And if you want to be here and you want to get the thrill and you want to get the returns and the fun and everything else that happens here, that's great. But then you've got to take everything. You can't do both. Matt, go ahead. Yo, what's up? You called me do both. Matt K., go ahead. Yo, what's up?

You called me Matt. I didn't want to butcher your last name, so I just went with Matt K. Dude, no, that's great. Everyone calls me Matt K. What's up, guys? First-time caller, long-time listener. I think, yeah, like, all tokens are down. Alts are shitting the bed.

Web3 gaming tokens, which is kind of like what I like to focus on. Those are not looking very hot. Everyone thinks those are dead too. I had a friend post something today about NFTs. Everyone's freaking out. So I come from the NFT market a little bit too. Everyone's freaking out. Are those things still happening?

Yeah, man. So look, this is what i was about to say like three we did three billion almost four billion in sales in q1 of 24 so wait so people are you telling me that people are still dumb enough to buy those expensive jpgs yeah i mean like if you want to call them dumb enough, it depends what vertical you're approaching. I approach NFTs from the angle of, okay, what kind of real-world value are they bringing to the market? There are certain companies that are offering real-world toys linked to NFfts um children's education they're calling it edutainment nowadays uh some nfts are backed by real world assets so rwas like real estate um those are the types of nft companies that i like to get into there are also you know your quote-unquote blue chip guys still out there azuki for for instance that um what about the what about the apes of the dogs the kennels what's it called kennel dogs dogs kennels

uh no idea what that is but was that when the apes had the mutant apes and the mutant apes yeah the dogs the dogs oh yeah yeah the. The Bored Ape Dog Club. No, no, it wasn't. It was called the Kennel Club or something. Yeah, I remember those. So, yeah, that was like a derivative or like an offshoot. I don't even know what's going on with those anymore, but I'll tell you that with the – I don't know.

I can see. I have – They're.349 each, 0.349. So those, there's not much going on over there. They're, so here's the, here's the sad piece. Like the other side used to sell for six digits. Now it's down to like 0.02 ETH per piece of land. And they're also giving them away for free.

So it's like, they have really u-turned wait which land is that where sorry i'm pretty sure it's other side i'm going off of like you know last week memory after uh not being online all weekend but this is the other side sorry to interrupt here okay yeah quite uh other side i got it what is like uh mana sand remember at the time of the bull run you could like buy a mansion or a plot to build your mansion next to snoop dog for like two or three million dollars what are those plots worth right now and i have no clue but i'll tell you that they thought they have fallen off um in in not a good way like a lot of the and from my perspective a lot of the alpha or the new upcoming meta is tying NFTs to real-world use cases.

That was the original meta. Yes. Before PFT. So it's coming back. We're round-tripping, baby. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. You couldn't pay me money to buy an nft today that's fine the numbers are saying something different though like we're we're just 3x away

from uh previous all-time highs and and you know when we end up getting there i don't know what's gonna happen but i imagine i imagine big things are gonna skyrocket again like like wolf was saying earlier like scott was saying earlier it's not going to be you know the ones that fell hard are not going to pump like i have stickers on my laptop of a fucking duck that i paid like seven grand for that isn't even worth like a hundred bucks now you got a sticker yeah but i got a sticker you know the community was great that you just he just made ran the most impactful impactful statement I think I've ever heard about crypto and doesn't even know it. And he said the community was great in the past tense, because this has been my argument to get NFTs and meme coins the entire time, which is that community is only as good as the price, which makes the community aspect utter and complete nonsense.

Yeah, I agree. It's not, it cannot be the only thing driving volume, driving utility, driving the success of a business. You also have a lot of, you know, sub, like young, you know, mid to early 20 year old people that are running these projects, they're great marketers, but they don't have any business acumen. And when you have something like that, coupled with like a bear market and a law and like a long runway, but no actual plan that doesn't really like get you anywhere. So that's, again, why I think that companies that, for instance, are tying NFTs to, this might sound funny, but like chickens, you know, that lay eggs and then the eggs go back to the, you know, revenue streams of the holders. Or there's, you know, these guys that I'm wearing right now, the quirkies, they're out in Las Vegas right now at Comic-Con. There are like no Web3 companies at Comic-Con, but they have a comic, a comic line that they're building, um, that, you know, for my knowledge is supposed to get released soon, that will build, you know, another stream of revenue for them so these are these are away from your very top layer crust layer narratives that people um you know were were listening to or subscribing to last last cycle um things are are quite a bit

different now if i must admit yeah board apes are like 37 grand floor right now ran and i made a joke last cycle when the floor was like 400 grand that i'd buy one at 25 000 i'm not sure i would even want to what are they we don't know what they're doing there's not there's nothing going on over there not to like shit on i'm not trying to like catch any heat right now but like some of them have horns and there's even one here that's got a kazoo in its mouth nice dude, dude. You got to get the kazoo. That shit looks rare, man. Yeah, I don't get it. Irritating. Go ahead. Hey, guys, GM excited to join you on this stage. I think, you know, like you guys said earlier, the sentiment is super negative. And I think

we're all just like bored and scared. But it's so important when you're investing not to measure bullishness or bearishness based on what's happening on the Twitter feed. I also think we're reacting pretty late to the FOMC meeting. I mean, the tone was hawkish, but we still decided to pump the markets. But now we see like a huge outflow of $600 million leaving crypto and a majority of that being in the US. I think all of us may have the same whether stocks, crypto or even the Fed, we like to sell the bottom, we like to sell when sentiment is bad, and then start buying in when everything starts to go crazy. And I hope one day,

maybe in a few years, we'll learn how to be like that. But I'm very curious to see like how the summer goes. I think all of us can predict, but there could be just any sort of catalyst that takes us in either direction. The summer is going exactly how the summer is supposed to go. This is an almost every summer phenomenon that we're experiencing right now, except for when we had the DeFi pumps, what was it, 21. But mean, people forget that in the last peak bull market, Bitcoin went to 65,000, obviously topped around May, and then had a miserable summer below 30,000 and ended up back at 69,000 by the end of the year. And alts went absolutely nuts on that back half of it. So act like you've been here before, I guess is the moral of the story. But go ahead, lawyer, and then follow us after that.

Yeah, just on the NFT thing, I think I just don't want to shake people out of the importance of the technology, which is really just like serialized tokens. I mean, there's so much that's cool that's coming with that. It's just not necessarily all just JPEGs. The guy just took a meeting with a company that's digitizing whole life insurance policies and creating a market for it which would you know they'll live in nfts but people can digitize their whole life policies and then trade them on a marketplace i mean this is a whole new concept that's being facilitated by nfts but it has nothing to do to me it's like saying you know if i said you'll sign this release and i'll give you a

million bucks and you said i'm not going to sign that i invested in signet in autographs you know in the 80s and i didn't do very well right so you know you've got to separate the tech from the way it's been used more recently so yeah which alludes to the fact that pfps were kind of always a joke if i have rationale go ahead sorry have that rationale. Go ahead. Sorry. You're good. You're good. Good PFP, you know, comment there. But if I could add, like, there are certain industries that are a recipe for getting disrupted. For instance, the real estate industry.

There's so many, you know, parties that have their hands on a real estate deal. For instance, if you think about a house, someone wants to go and buy a house, if a deed to a house can be an NFT, that NFT can get transacted between people, insurance, title companies, everything that you just mentioned, like from the life insurance side of things, it's very similar with real estate. I'm just laughing because this is literally like when people first told me about NFTs and I got excited in 2018 and 2019, this is what they were saying. Real world assets, tokenized, proof of ownership, provenance,

easier supply chains. And then we started doing AIDs and whatever else yeah fortunately with rwas it takes a long time it's a lot easier to click on an ape and something that looks pretty and has a lot of hype behind it um this stuff isn't sexy and uh it also takes a long time um even even transacting real estate takes a long time you know it can take up to 90 days to close on a house um anyway i'll pause there speculating and gambling gambling has always been the most compelling use case obviously for our technology or at least for the community who uses it and they can't do that and they can't do that on a real world asset in the same way even

if there's marketplace right so those are things that take 10 years but still to your point are the most promising and probably exciting use cases for nfts and blockchain in general fall let's go ahead i don't know if i pronounced that right either sorry yeah yeah no you did scott cheers uh thanks for having me guys i think this is my third or maybe fourth time on the show uh always fun to to talk crypto yeah just something i wanted to touch about there uh regarding sentiment i mean you guys hit the nail on the head uh it's funny to see people losing their minds and like these complete meltdowns because btc is pulling back you know four or five percent from range highs i mean because that's effectively what price has been doing since march i think we've had one weekly

close above uh 70 or 71k since March. And other than that, it's just been basically just range bound PA between 70k and 60k. And it's funny to see this. I mean, you see this time and time again, you know, sentiment shifts with price. I mean, price moves up to range highs, 70k resistance, and people start calling for 80k, they start calling for 100k, the bull run is back's gonna make it and then we pull back down to the range lows goes down to 65 64 63k people start calling for 40k zoran cole is a legend bull markets over blood in the streets and it's just it's the same thing huh did zoran say that i mean i there's there are no fanboys of his in the space right now.

I'm not even going to get into that. I actually think I kind of respect what he's doing, not going to lie. He has a lot of, besides Ansem, he's probably the main character of Twitter right now, and I think he knows exactly what he's doing. So power to him. But he definitely was one of the few guys who was vocally bearish above 71K at the start of this month. So, I mean, he put his money where his mouth is and it paid off. So good for him.

But it is funny to see the sentiment just flip-flop when basically we're just on prices done very little. We're still trading at the same price that we were trading back in March. That halts it down considerably. Bitcoin is. Right, that's the point. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I think Ran touched on it when he mentioned the

total three chart, you know, the total crypto market cap without BTC and ETH. It's indicative of, yeah, massive altcoin weakness. But I just think it is, I mean, you know, things are, people are talking about it as if, you know,

the bull runs over, you know, the cycle has topped out. But realistically, I mean, BTC is just ranging and alts are pulling back. I think I genuinely don't see the argument, at least not until we have more data, more information. I think as well, making calls like that during the summer, during a relatively low volume summer is kind of short-sighted. I think wait until the autumn, we should have a little bit more clarity. It begs an interesting question that I have kind of for the panel, which is we've seen that altcoins, as you said, with Total3 versus Bitcoin, have wildly underperformed. I think a lot of the heavily hyped projects, even some that actually are still building from previous cycles, are still down massively from last they barely even moved, especially

against Bitcoin. Rand, are you still here? So I want to ask you a question. Do you think that those do you think that it's going? I'm listening to the way Matt talks about NFTs. And it's kind of like there will be these new projects, new use cases. Those will do exceptionally well, but it sounds like mentally he and others have given up on those older projects. Is that how we should frame these heavily hyped tokens? You mean Cardano, XRP, Cardano? Which one are you talking about?

Yeah, I guess. I was even thinking like a cycle newer, but yes, those are perfect examples. Like do these, when do these things come back? Cardano going to zero. Cardano going to zero over time. XRP going to zero over time. I wouldn't touch those things at 10.5.

Why? Whoever asked that should be removed from the space as a speaker who was that I'm just curious what are your thoughts on that which one sorry it's not working they want they think I'm a speaker but I think I'm a listener we can't say anything

we can hear you bro I don't want to hear or anything but I think I'm a listener and can't say anything. Matt, Dave, if we hear you speak, we can hear you, bro. We can hear you. I don't want to hear him peeing or anything, which is inevitably what comes next. Let's look at the road. I can still hear him, and he's not even on stage. At least better look at the road, though. And he's fighting with his wife.

Yeah. That's what happens in the real world for people who don't live there. What was the question, though, Rand? Somebody, I was laughing at Dave and missed who asked you, but which one you were speaking of. I'm assuming you were talking about Cardano at the time or something? Cardano XRP. Why are they going to zero? Okay, hold on. Can you tell me why in God's name Cardano should go up in price i i'm not bullish nor bearish i don't think i mean based off of what i'm seeing yeah the community sentiment does not look good they have always crowned themselves as like the scholars chain but there's because you need to because because because you need to because you need to um you need to get adoption it's not just about technology and it's not just in cardena's case it's not just about technology. And it's not just, in Cardano's case,

it's not just about white papers. Now, I know Charles Hoskinson is going to cut this piece out. And I know he's going to meme this piece. And I know he's going to say that I'm wrong. But, bro, other than writing white papers and all that shit, I don't see anybody using the chain. He's going to tell me that, oh, but they've got thousands and thousands of coins. I'm in crypto every single

day. I don't know one guy that trades for 100. They seem very angry too. Just not a lot of support there. It's very kind of like eat yourself alive from the inside type vibes over there. And when you're trying to get

traction by saying how you're so superior to Bitcoin, you've kind of hit the end of your cycle. Is there a quote for that? I didn't hear that. Is there a quote for that? Sorry. Simon, what did they say? The last two videos Charles Hodgkinson has released is all about how his chief... It's not Hodgkinson. Hodgkinson how it's cheap it's not hodgkinson hodgkinson is a disease it's hodgkinson hodgkinson wow i've already been slept hodgkins is a disease it's also a name in fairness everyone calls him hodgkinson it's not

that's a disease bro this is this is charles hodgkinson ada is a disease. You heard it here first, guys. Yeah. Okay, Charles. He's a smart guy. He knows exactly, like he's been in this industry from the beginning. He knows everything that we know. But, you know, he had an issue with his early stage in Ethereum. He then had to create Cardano. Cardano has just been this project that is just going on and on and on and on and on and on and on, saying that something amazing that changes the entire

world is coming tomorrow. And the last few videos that he's been releasing is trying to go through kind of the Richard Hart type narrative of, you know, this is cheaper, faster, better than Bitcoin. Bitcoin's had all these problems and Cardano fixes them all. And so I just think it's a really bad look rather, you know, to try and score points by saying how it's got all this utility, it's got all this stuff when we all know that you know just very old narrative i just saw actually something somewhat i guess we'd call it breaking i'm just looking at this on bitcoin magazine justin sec's chief of crypto asset

enforcement division david hirsch resigns yeah resigns after like eight years or something yeah it's not really just in yeah it, it's just in to me. Just like that people still trade NFTs, just in, breaking news. He's probably going to announce his job at BlackRock next. Inevitably, or he's going to be like the CEO of an exchange. New consultant guiding people here. Obviously.

Or yeah, starting a consulting firm to exchanges for getting regulatory approval in the united who was that one let me do some some quizzes who remembers creating the bit the new york bit license and then quitting as soon as it was through and then creating a consulting company to help everyone get their bit license who was that you could have to give it to us i mean i know brian brooks went immediately to binance and others like that but yeah go ahead who was i've forgotten the name it's just a quiz i thought it was like a pop quiz hot shot what do you do whoever really spearheaded the the new

york bit license as soon as he got it through uh he just then created a consulting company consulting all the companies on how to get a bit license he actually learned something from the legacy financial system simon he learned how to play the game from the real system which is exactly what you do if you work at golden sacks of the government is exactly what you described it was ben lowski that's the one yeah yeah he can rely on andrew andrew people people quickly quickly forget all the different levels of quote-unquote both regulatory and crypto scams that have happened since 2015-16. But that is a truly epic one. And the BitLicense still exists. Something that I find so remarkably compelling is I take a look at

a company like Gemini, right? Which, by the way, jumped through all the hoops to get a bit license. You know, their guys have, you know, given testimony in front of Congress, you know, created an entire campaign about being regulatory compliant, put it on the side of buses, crypto without chaos, and, you know, returned all of the money to all the Gemini Earn folks. And yet, you know, at the end of the day, they still have restrictions associated with what they can do here in the United States. It's really a, just a remarkable sort of story about regulatory failure here in the United States. And, you know, bringing up the creator of the BitLicense and then jumping, you know, off that proverbial ship and starting a company. I mean, it's just, you know, a remarkable story

to remember how that happened in the in the way that it happened in in 2014 scott have you covered the transform labs one okay so yeah there's um a 4.5 billion dollar settlement between docon terraform that's the one yeah wait wait yeah where is dokwan where did dokwan get four and a half billion from that was my question it's like and why is that going to the united states government yeah but where did dokwan get four and a half billion from that that is the question um ledger it was a ledger he lost his he was keeping a ledger somewhere interesting so maybe that's where the 4.5 billion came from

just some dust in an old wallet no but on a serious note no no i mean does the u.s actually expect to get paid for this or is this like we've agreed to a settlement but we both know there's no way in that and we can repay it i'm asking that not facetiously yeah that's the real question so is this just sitting in line as a creditor in the bankruptcy case and then they'll figure out how someone else might go first or might go later? Or is this an actual settlement between Doquan, the individual, and the entities that are in the bankruptcy? But if he did find that money and the SEC does get that money,

it's the sickest thing i've ever heard that should that should just be in the creditors two creditors it's crazy um i'm hoping because there was like in in the ftx case there was the cftc settlement in the celsius case there was you know they they all come in all the regulators come in and then you have an argument so like and then they try and sit in a queue but this was where is Alex Mashinsky where is that ex-missions key he's in New York with frozen assets and no passport and he hired the same lawyer as SPF and it managed to buy himself until January 2025 for his court case because there was a conflict of interest by hiring SBF's lawyer.

So we're waiting until January 2025 for that one. That was a good hire for him, strategically. He literally bought himself another six months out of prison. That's an exceptional move. Exceptional move. Yeah, I mean, man, I think everyone's had that same question is, where does this four point something billion $4 billion come from? And why doesn't it go to creditors, but I think we'll

just see how that plays out. Why? I mean, for if he's got look, I've always like said that, you know, he did a couple of things wrong, but I't think he he he was that wrong but if he's got if he still has 4.5 billion dollars then i'm changing my whole tune then it's a lot more nefarious there's always been yeah but then but then to be honest you should be getting the usdc airdrop on that one it should there's no way that should go to the sec if that's how it works out yeah i, I was about to say, fuck the SEC. Why did they get the $4.5 billion? Why don't I get it?

Yeah, then they'll pay for at least five minutes of the United States national debt. Really useful for the US. William, go ahead. I was here. I was just going to say a joke that Hirsch is going to give some competition now to john reed stark uh so anyways uh bad comment x x sec enforcement guys who hate crypto

yeah now on a serious note i think the talk about the the meme coins, they are the weak link at the end of the day. So they are the weak link in the system. And when they're selling, they are going to get hurt the most because most of them are really in price discovery with not very high volume in most days. So my advice is don't fall in love with your meme coin. It's just something you ride and then you want to move to the next one. Okay, hold on. Hold on. You've got to hear this.

You've got to hear this. This is the headline of the fucking day. Sorry to interrupt you. This is an announcement from Pump.fun, okay? And he says, yeah, we're excited to announce that our new head of trading, David Hirsch. David Hirsch is the former SEC official. No way.

This is an official announcement from Pump.Fun. There's no way. We are excited to announce our new head of trading, David Hirsch. Maybe it's official. That can't be real. Maybe it's not real. Maybe that's the meme. Hold on.

Maybe that's the meme. Maybe that's the meme. Let me carry on. After months of conversation, David came to the realization that his work as a regulator was no longer fulfilling. Okay, maybe it's a meme. Sorry. Maybe it's a meme.

That'd be amazing. That'd be amazing. Gary Gensler is actually going to work for Doquan and Luna next. Go ahead. Yeah. I think we need to turn to some positive things that are going to happen. I mean, all of us being in crypto for a while, we know that the up and down is just to host a Bitcoin roundtable with Mark Cuban, who is a pro-Bitcoin, but also pro-Biden. And apparently there's thoughts that Biden is going

to get invited. And so, in my opinion, I don't think this is necessarily going to turn things around because it could be a head fake. Biden attending a round table doesn't mean that he's going to change the course and focus less on risks instead of letting innovation go forward, instead of pressuring the SEC to do something more interesting than lawsuits. So I think, again, this is just activity. And the other thing that caught my attention... Sorry, William, can I comment on that? I just want to say, and then you go back to yours, but anybody, I mean, anybody that contributes their Bitcoin to the Biden administration, their head is in the exact same place that Biden's head is right now.

Can I also offer some color, William, on the Ropana thing? Because I've been in touch with them for years, actually. I had Ropana on my podcast, it's got to be a year and a half or two years ago. He's always actually been very pro-innovation and pro-crypto. And this, I guess we'll call it a roundtable or thing is something he's been actually trying to put together for years, because I spoke to him about it back then that he wanted to create sort of an industry council to meet with politicians and educate them on this. So I don't know if this is coincidence, that they're pushing it so hard now. Or if that's because, you know, Trump obviously becoming so pro BitcoinBitcoin and RoKon is a Democrat.

But this is not just a knee-jerk thing they're planning at this second. Maybe Biden's administration being willing to attend is. But this is something that's been in the works for literally years. Yeah, that's why I called it as a head fake. It's nothing really new. It's just something, it's just some movement, some just hand-waving. And it's kind of related to another headline I read was somebody said that Gensler is going to cost Biden the election. So far, I don't think that's going to happen necessarily. I think Cuban said that,

maybe. Yeah, it's not going to happen intentionally because he's going to do something a month ahead of the election just to show that they are not totally anti-crypto uh that person has so many tricks up their sleeves as as we know that they they will do something uh and uh maybe it's not the uh eth eth because it might happen maybe they can approve a meme coin etf That would be a fucking great move. There will be something small. There'll be some bone they'll throw to the market that just very close to the election to kind of show to those that want to believe that, that the Democrats are not totally all against crypto. Democrats are not totally all against crypto, for the record. I mean, the real comment is that Democrats have been playing it for years. Yeah, I think the White House is, but I don't think you can even say Biden. I think we should refer to it as the White House at this point, because it's actually Elizabeth Swarm's people in the White are plenty of pro-crypto democrats uh the democratic party was probably was arguably as pro-crypto pre-spf as the republican party but they're the ones who got shamed by spf's failure right i mean he was meeting with genji he's meeting with maxine waters and it became extremely politically unpopular for a very long time

to be a pro- Democrat because of SPF. And so I think that that silenced quite a lot of them. And I think this Saab 121 vote for the first time, they started to come out of the closet, so to speak, you know, when Schumer came out with nine other senators and went directly against Elizabeth Warren and 70 Congress people did as well. I think that we need to make a differentiation between the two parties and between what Biden is doing himself because I don't or the White House, because I don't think that most Democrats on crypto are necessarily aligned with Elizabeth Warren and White House policy on crypto. Doesn't mean you should vote him in.

I'm just saying I think that there is a disparity. Right. But that White House policy was very damaging. What set the wheels in motion was in November 2022, the White House Framework for Digital Assets. And that gave a direction to all of the agencies to focus on risks instead of focusing on innovation. And they had six months to come up with their own reports. And one after another, they all caved in from the Treasury and so on and SEC, and they all started to focus on mitigating risks and being crybabies about everything.

William, I think it was in the summer of 22 that he did the executive order. He asked for clarity. You're pointing to November 22, which is FDX collapse. FDX collapse. The FDX collapse fundamentally changed everything politically in the United States. You can blame SBF for the majority of this, sadly. I'll double check there. I thought it wasn't the fall.

I could be wrong. But I mean, November 22, if we're talking about what changed in crypto and the world, it's the FTX collapse. Is the consensus that there was an operation checkpoint? I think it's pretty clear. It is an operation checkpoint. It was September that they released it. A month before. But, you know, the difficulty in securing banking has only got worse, even though... Yeah, that's what I say.

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, Dave, we finally got you back on stage. We were talking about this literally this morning on YouTube, Operation Chokepoint 2.0. James Lavish had obviously shared his stories many times with his hedge fund because it's Bitcoin related that they had had their banking relationships cut off, damaged, difficulty. You run a business that's a software company, but you said that two of your five banking relationships, those banks are at risk. Is that correct, David? Are you there? I can't hear him. But yeah, I mean, we've spent probably the last, well, over a decade opening bank accounts and probably over the last two years,

we had to hire somebody just to be on the department of dealing with banks. That's a full-time job now, just making sure you've got one bank account operating. Insane. That could change in a few months, though, hopefully. Dave, can you hear now? Are you able to speak?

Yeah, I can't hear him. Can you guys hear Dave? I just can't because there's always a glitch where, okay, you guys can't. Thumbs down. All right, I'm going to remove him one more time and pray for the best. Sorry, just trying to manage the spaces while also chatting. I mean, I think we've actually covered fundamentally everything

that we were trying to get to today. Interestingly, the market I don't think has budged much since we started the spaces. My view is that bloodbath is an overstatement. But this is a really interesting time to probably be careful with anything not named Bitcoin in this market, because the expectation has always been that it would be a shitty summer. I mean, I've been saying it personally. I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one. I'm not taking credit. But in the middle of March when meme coins, you know, when people were sending $30 million to an anonymous Solana address in 30 minutes and getting rug pulled five minutes later, it was a pretty good top signal, you know.

And so if you look at the cycles, you would have expected even with the halving that we would have a boring summer. Things don't necessarily repeat, but they can. And that would put you in September, October before you'd have any expectation that anything was going to happen in this market. And even when people talk about it and get warned, you see the same people freaking the hell out three months later, uh, because the market is sideways. Uh, yeah. Follis, I see you had your hand up. Go ahead. Yeah. I mean, in March we had, you might remember, we had that,

it was like the hot ball of money thing where one week memes would pump and then Tuesday and Wednesday of the following week, RWA would pump and then storage coins would pump and then it would go back to memes and then it would be AI for 10 days. And people were saying, yeah, this is the start of the altcoin summer. Here we go, guys. We're going to kick it off. Total three is going to go into price. I was thinking, no, not at all. Like that's not that's not the precursor for for something healthy, for something that's going to drive organic interest in altcoins. That's just going to leave a lot of jaded, overexposed, overleveraged narrative chasers who get burnt and then just say, fuck this. I'm going to wait for something, something that's a bit easier to trade.

The guys who do really well. The only way that's literally the only way the market goes up is when those people capitulate yeah exactly exactly scott and that's what i was thinking i was thinking we need it we need a wipe we need an oi wipe we need memes to go down 60 70 percent we need to reset and then we need to build from there building from from oh which dog coin is going to make me rich this week uh oh no actually, it's a cat coin narrative. That's not the building block for hashtag altcoin summer or whatever people were talking about. I just think it was indicative of guys getting frothy

at kind of a local high in the early parts of the year, kind of Q1, start of Q2. Guys joining late, probably joining with too much size, FOMOing in and getting wrecked now. And you're kind of seeing that now with these, with alts and memes, you know, pulling back 40, 50, sometimes even 60% from the highs. It's because we had that hot ball of money rotating. That wasn't the start of something healthy. That wasn't the start of, you know, altcoins somewhere. It was it was just it was it was narrative chasers and people coming in joining lace yeah i mean just to give like what my opinion was on it i pinned a tweet above in the nest 318 24 uh that basically

laid out all of this and you should have seen how much shit i got for it right and now here we are i'm not saying that doesn't matter if i'm right or wrong. I'm wrong most of the time. But three months later, every one of those signals kind of came true. And here we are and people are freaking out. Right. And I think that at that point where you're describing that hot ball of money, we were at peak euphoria. Right.

You were if you even imagine that the market could go down, you were the enemy. So if you want to know that's how the top is formed, the bottom will be formed with all those people have given up, say crypto is completely a scam, everything's going to zero, and then they'll sell. And we can go back up. Right. So we'll see. I mean, right now, I see no reason to panic when Bitcoin is consolidating relatively close to the previous cycle all time high and we're only, you know, two months out after the having, hey, people just need to chill out. Uh, and maybe we,

uh, make their blood boil a little bit by giving them hyperbolic titles like this that don't allow them to chill out. So we'll take our responsibility for that part of it. Otherwise, everybody, we will be back tomorrow, uh,

with yet another episode of crypto town hall, AKA market bloodbath part two. See you guys tomorrow. Bye.