The Wolf Of All Streets - Market Fails To Break ATH Despite Trump BTC Speech | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

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Hey Scott. I'm here. I am. How are you? What time is it wherever you are in the world? It doesn't matter, man. I'm here. I made it. I'm glad you're as happy as I am, as pleased as I am. Are you in a motorcade right now? I heard Nashville.

We have no privacy on these spaces anymore, do we? So every private conversation, is it loud? Yeah, it sounds great. But I was told that I might hear police sirens. I just jumped to the conclusion. I can't say that it's happening. I was asking if the siren was loud. Sounds great.

Yeah, so it sounds great as in you can't hear it or it is too loud? No, you sound good. Okay. Yeah, so I wanted to ask you about, you know, as the space warms up and stuff, I sneak in my questions. Um, Nashville, was it worth,

I was really worried that, you know, not doing it would backfire. Was it worth it or how, how'd it go? How'd it go? Did it meet expectations? Yeah,

it was, it was amazing. I think obviously there were a lot of logistical challenges because, uh, having Kennedy now who has secret service, um, which he didn't before. So like when you remember, you interviewed Kennedy not so long ago and he kind of rolled in with like his one or two security guys and it was fine. They didn't really check it. Yeah. Now he has a full detail. Eight guys on him. The advanced

team comes in with the dogs. Ten people in advance. So, everywhere you went, you had either Trump or Kennedy, which meant dealing with Secret Service. Even Karate Kombat, we went full Secret Service because Kennedy showed up. But I think actually the mood was really positive

and people just dealt with it. They understood that if Trump and these guys were going to be on site you would get the benefit that you're going to also have to pay the price in longer security lines and stuff but the high energy conference um i think people very excited you know trump's speech was very much a trump speech i think uh people who love trump love the. People who had never sat through 45 minutes of Trump were baffled. But what really mattered was he hit the key points, which were clearly talking points. And my first... And I wrote a very long newsletter about it today. I put out a video yesterday with me just interviewing people live right after the speech to get their take. So it wouldn't necessarily be mine. My first take was... I mean, people... I looked around and Peter McCormick literally fell asleep

20 minutes into the speech. People here say they did too. It was just a rambling stump speech. But he hit all the points. And as I thought about it, my first instinct was, wow, that kind of sucked, honestly. And then as I thought more about it, and really dug into it, I read it probably five or six more times to write the newsletter. Whoever wrote the actual parts he read from the teleprompter when he hit the big notes was great. And it showed that he has smart people around him. And really, the kicker for me was when he said, first day in office, he was going to appoint a council of people from our industry to create policy. That's what matters, right?

I mean, he's a 78-year-old guy. How many 78-year-olds who pivoted on crypto three months ago do you expect to actually speak about it with any level of competence or nuance? I mean, I would say it's none. And I think he has a lot of other things on his mind. I'm talking about someone who, you know, they attempted to kill a few weeks ago. So I think the fact that whether he does it in his own sort of manner and rambles through it, the fact that the main points were hit and that he's going to put young, smart people in charge and listen to them, if he's telling the truth, I think that's what we should have heard from that speech. And so I think just a tremendous moment for the industry.

It's just crazy that you had. And let me say, because I'm going to get my moment in, I'm generally nonpolitical, but I've spent a hell of a lot of time with RFK, as have you now. But I spent probably four hours in a lot of time with RFK, as have you now. But I spent probably four hours in a room with him having private and public conversations. That guy really gets it. If Trump can go that far down, as far down the rabbit hole as RFK has in the last year, it would be very positive. But if you believe RFK has a chance to win and you're really a single issue voter, he's way, way further into this this has a meaningful part of his own net worth and it really understands it and

so it's kind of a stark contrast when you listen to the two of them speak yeah how about and just by the way for the audience what we're going to do now starting today kyle and david who host my um or our meme coin shows on a daily basis they're going to come up every day and give us like a quick five minute recap on on meme dgen world i call it dj world's making meme coins right now so we started we decided to do this literally two minutes ago two minutes before starting the space um and uh they're gonna come up right now david kyle you just got an invite both of you i know it's glitching and i can't even be oh it's because i can't be co-hosted so now so you have to bring

out bring down two speakers, bring down two of our regulars and bring them back up just after Kyle and David. And you can co-host Rand instead of me. So co-host Rand and bring up two speakers, replace them with Kyle and David so they can give us the DGN or the Mulecoin recap. Scott, another question is what about your comments by, I'm sure you guys have already discussed this, but I wasn't there. So fuck it.

But what about the comments by Trump providing Bitcoin a flipping gold? It was, it was just kind of a funny comment, right? He said it's about to flip silver. Hey, you guys know silver, right? You know, just like classic Trump. And he kind of said maybe one day it'll flip gold. That was it, right? And I think it's just a great, great talking point. Was there any surprises in the speech at all? No, in fact, I think people were surprised that it was mostly what in the speech at all? Anything? will stop selling the Bitcoin that's been confiscated. But then immediately after, even though it was chaotic and people were leaving the room,

Cynthia Lummis ran out on stage and provided an actual bill that said that the United States would effectively buy, you know, 5% supply, 1 million Bitcoin over five years. When I talked to Kennedy on Wednesday, and then he re-mentioned it in his speech, he said that he would buy, because I pressed him really hard. I wasn't supposed to, if we're being honest. You know how that is. They give you talking points and tell you what you're allowed to say, but I was like, fuck it, we're live. And so I said, will you add Bitcoin to the... Will you make Bitcoin a reserve asset? And he in that moment said yes,

and I would buy as much Bitcoin as we have gold for. So for him, that was about that would equate to about 4 million Bitcoin, which would be about 20% of the world supply of Bitcoin. We can debate whether anyone wants the United States holding 20% of the supply of Bitcoin. But if you listen to the rationale, that's about what I think the United States holds about 19% of the world supply of gold. And so matching that would be roughly equivalent.

And did you go to a bit of the conference as well? The Nashville conference? Yeah. I mean, I was there for the Trump speech. I actually, the, the stream I was asking, I was asking, I know you did. He did as well. Yeah. Yes, of course. course of course i was like a good boy i attended class every single day what were your thoughts on it scott was giving me an overview your force to force on trump's speech um was it above expectations below expectations did it have much impact on the market way below expectations uh for me the speech was way below expectations I think that I'm super

bullish on Trump and I was much more bullish before I walked in there, what I realized there was he doesn't care about Bitcoin at all, he has very limited knowledge about what Bitcoin is and he pretty much had a script of like 10 points that he had to say

free Ross Ulbricht, gold is bigger than silver, you hear that? Wow that's like wow he had like 7 points that he had to say, like free Ross Ulbricht. Gold is bigger than silver. You hear that? Wow. That's like, wow. You know, like he had like seven points, eight points, which he knew he had to say. And he was. The funniest part was he,

you could tell he was reading them for the first time because he was reacting to seeing them for the first time. Exactly. Exactly. So I think the speech was disappointing, though he did say everything that he needed to say. I think he doesn't give a shit about Bitcoin, but I think he gives a shit about Bitcoiners

and he realizes that there's a lot of people who are very smart and have a lot of money and he wants those people on his side. And that's all that Trump actually cares about. He cares about Bitcoinersers and money votes and brain power staying in the in the united states that's all he cares about he doesn't care at all about uh about uh bitcoin the asset he couldn't give a he knows nothing about crypto other than the fact that he can make money uh on nfts um and that this is a place where he can win votes

for the democrats now i think that we need to be a little bit concerned, and I'll tell you why I think we need to be a little bit concerned. I mean, let's just stay at the conference for two seconds. I think that RFK Jr., who I watched last conference where he came into Bitcoin for the first time, I think he's really spent the last year doing his research. I don't know if it was the last year doing his research. And I think he's

actually really a fucking Bitcoiner now and he really gets it and he really, really, really understands it. I think there's no chance he's ever going to be president. Not say ever, but he's certainly not going to win this time round. But he would be by far the best Bitcoin candidate, no doubt.

If it were to be like like really uh um uh like like he's he's uh he's by far the best the best candidate for us even though a vote for him is probably a vote wasted at this stage as scott will tell you yeah i think it's down i was just looking at the polls now i obviously have to come on uh replace biden he's down and you know have you seen the numbers scott recently i don't care i just like to make the point that if all the people who told me they would vote for rfk but it's a wasted vote so they won't vote it for rfk the guy would probably win the election it's so stupid i sorry. And by the way, none of your votes matter because you're probably 95% of you are in States that

are already predetermined and it's not going to matter. So I'm going to vote for the guy that I actually want to vote for as a guy in Florida where my boat is trash. Anyways, I'm definitely voting for RFK. I'll continue giving him money. I'll continue raising for him. I'll continue doing fundraisers for him because I don't listen. I don't know what you guys have seen in the media. I've sat in a, I'm pretty a reasonable person. I used to watch the guy in the news and be like,

this dude is fucking bananas, like quack, right? All the things that you've seen. And I've sat in a room with him now for probably five hours. And that's not who it is. It just makes absolutely. I don't think he's lucky. I just think. No sense. I'm just saying like,

it's, it's nuts when you get to know somebody a little better and you see what you see on the news and you ask the questions. I know Mario, you had the same impression. He said, I was at a dinner with him the other night. And he said,

just quickly, he just really quickly ran. He literally said, I watched the news about me and I would not vote for me. Hell, I wouldn't even like me. I love him. I love him. I think he's amazing. I just think he's not presidential and I can probably say what most people don't want to say, but the truth is a lot of the problem is in his tremor.

And it just makes him, and I know it's like, you know, don't judge a book by its cover. And, you know, it's – the problem is that it's not presidential. And so he immediately comes in, in my opinion, he comes in at a disadvantage to all the other candidates. And I do think that he'd be an amazing president. And I think for me,'s by far the the best candidate out there but i don't think he's got a chance of winning and so you know i think the fact that he's

that is independent already reduces his chances of of potentially winning i think yeah yeah i think it's i think that the rfk discussion was interesting prior to kind of coming into the race i think now it's it's interesting why it's not as relevant, Scott, unfortunately. Jonathan, follow us up so you can put your hand up for the discussion about Trump's speech.

Do you agree with Ryan? Was it underwhelming in terms of the speech and the conference as

a whole? Not from the impact on the market or much different. I think the announcement of

Trump coming to the conference, that was all the impact there. The rest was nothing beyond

what everyone expected or below what everyone expected, or it was below what everyone expected. Yeah, I think it was, I mean, it's pretty much exactly as Ran said. I mean, Trump said what he needed to say, he touched on the major speaking points. But I mean, I'm not surprised that, you know, we're getting this sell off now. I think, inevitably, with these, you know, bullish catalysts, and I say that word, that's obviously a charged term, but with these kind of events, these focal pivotal points in the market, people are building them up in their heads, right? Market speculators are creating this expectation that almost inevitably the reality is going to fall short of that thing. I mean, we see it time and time again, is why people always say, buy the rumor, sell the news. And in this case, the rumor was, you know, talks of the strategic reserve, talks that Trump was going

to be, you know, stockpiling Bitcoin or announcing favorable policy. And, you know, when he did that, I mean, it met expectations, but I presume maybe didn't exceed them. And in that sense, now we're getting the market kickback. But it's funny, I mean, looking at, I mean, I think that we kind of live in a little bit of an echo chamber sometimes on Twitter. And people do kind of bounce these opinions back and forth between one another that, you know, Trump is the, he's the savior of crypto. And he's going to be, he's, don't get me wrong. I think he's, it's crypto and you know he's going to be he's i don't i don't don't get me wrong i

think he's it's an incredible bullish catalyst i mean to consider even two years ago to consider that we would have a presidential candidate who is speaking at the bitcoin conference i mean even for even three months ago yeah it's it's mind-boggling right um but it's it's funny to to see you know certain takes on twitter people saying like when harris was in discussions to talk at the conference uh people were saying oh you know she's only doing it to to pander for both votes and she's and i was like well you know trump isn't in it for the tech as much as i'd love to think that he is um so yeah i mean it's it's it's a classical case i mean just even looking at the chart very quickly oh i was ramping up we had had a 15% increase in three days leading into the speech. Lots of new leverage longs opening up, lots of speculation leading into the event. And a lot of those guys will have gotten wiped in the last 24 to 48 hours as the market sells off, as I discussed, because the expectation, sorry, the reality didn't meet the the expectation so it's just a point that i've touched on again as always the people who are having the best time at the moment are guys who are in spot from

from lower and guys who are just trying not to squeeze every drop as they can out of this i don't know if i agree with you to be honest i think i actually see it completely different i think after the trump speech i think the speech wasn't great, but I think the clips that people started clipping of the speech were amazing because people started clipping the best parts. I'll fire Gary Gensler. I'll keep a strategic reserve. So not many people sat through that speech.

And let me tell you, you needed to sit through that speech. It was a terrible speech, but a lot of people got the clips. And the clips were bullish. And I think that the clips were bullish and we started to get a ramp up in bullishness. Solana started to break. You've got people getting euphoric about Solana. People were getting euphoric about Bitcoin

and going into the next part of the cycle. Have meme coins done well as well? Sorry, Alcoins. Meme coins obviously exploded. into the next part of the cycle and that have meme coins have have meme coins done well everything alcoins meme coins obviously um i mean mario have you seen the the one have you seen the one that that everyone's getting very excited about which is this uh uh the the it's got a head of a fish a body of a raw chicken it's got a hundred million dollar market cap have you seen it it's called smoking chicken fish. For fuck's sake, Kyle, David, by the way, right. We decided to do like a meme point segment for five minutes in every show. So we can bring smoking fucking fish.

We decided. I wasn't consulted. Scott, were you consulted? I mean, I was in the chat and I told them if they did it, I literally said read the quote, but it's said, yeah, I should read the quote, but it's like, yeah, you guys should do that so I can relentlessly make fun of you. Yes. So David and Kyle, by the way, Robbie,

I'm glad you're here as well on my first day back. So I want to discuss more about the VC world as well because we're still very, very active. I know Rand isn't, and I know the performance still hasn't picked up much, unfortunately, not yet at least. But something I want to kind of ask you about.

But David, K2, Kyle, maybe give us a quick overview. I see Kyle, you have a hand up as well. Just in meme world, is there really a fish, like fish head

and other body parts of the other animals or whatever it was, dog and whatever, that's doing well? And what was the other one that you said in the group that's like killing it,

make or whatever, doges? Nero. Yeah, it one that you said in the group that's like killing it lake or whatever doge's euro yeah it's you know just sorry before before you answer i just want to give a big disclaimer like i don't want to embarrass my company with my limited meme coin knowledge i don't know a lot about meme coin world but we do have a whole department and you know kyle and david are part of that team that are deeper to that ecosystem finding meme coins say i'm not working with ibc because mario doesn't know shit about the industry you don't work with me there's a team that knows more about that than me but yeah go ahead yeah you know the the i mean the thing with the space is that it's so expansive you know the the hundred million dollar market cap of the random tokens that that pop off i haven't heard of that one yet we can research that

you know coming coming out of this weekend yeah a lot of bullish sentiment. It's to be expected that a larger cap token would come out of these conferences generally. Hold on, hold on. I have to say, are you calling yourself a meme coin person and you haven't heard of smoking chicken fish? I'm actually not being serious. Now I'm actually being dead serious now I'm actually being dead serious how can you say you're in meme there's no being dead serious oh I got it

I mean quite frankly we've been wrapped up in the Nero drama all weekend because there's two there's two Nero's which one's the real exactly I mean that's been what we've been openly debating the last two days i think the pumped out fun one is you know we've got two warring solana communities but the the ethereum community

is actually outperforming those two and you know to me i think that's more indicative of what you see in the solana environment is that you see communities that don't want to work for it in the same way that you've done in previous cycles. Can you tell us the story for basics? Why is it a battle between two coins and which one's the real one? And how's the performance? What's the story behind it? And maybe go back to the meme coin world in general.

Yeah, so essentially the original Doge passed away, as everyone knows, and the owners over the weekend posted a Instagram story of purchasing a newsem, started posting about another token. And this basically elicited a war between multiple communities as to which one was which. So one of the tokens actually ran up to a half a million dollar or half a billion dollars to the market cap, while another one ran up to 80 million. And then at the same time, an Ethereum token. Which one was the big one won which one was the big one ansum one or the other one so the ansum one the price went down there's another

community driven one that seems to be stabilizing quite a bit um but they lack they lack a bit of resources and so you know now there's a bit of infighting so the last 48 hours has basically been you know the two communities kind of finger pointing back and forth to one another as to which one is the original. And that's been a major hot topic on Mario's other spaces, you know, that are more meme coin focused is a lot of very passionate community members trying to say that they're, and honestly, it's just a matter of which one plays out. But, you know, David, you know, you hosted kind of the original space around this. What was the original fire, you know, sentiment? Oh, man. Well, first, everybody was just excited to see a new meme coin come up that didn't have to do with these exact political

events that were going on. Everybody was staring at pump fund waiting for something to happen because of Bitcoin Nashville with these politicians. and Nero kind of just slid in there and surprised everybody got 500 million in volume like a significant amount of volume very quickly one of the tokens ran up I think all-time high was close to between 70 and 80 million might have even gone a little higher the dev from that one there there were just sale like huge sales I think it was around 5 million that the original developer pulled out from that 500 million in volume, which sounds like a lot. But from how we talk in meme coin spaces, he did it in a quote unquote responsible way. But that same one now is around 50 million market cap. The other one, which is one is the quote unquote community led and the other is the quote unquote market leading.

Everybody's coming up with their own terms. It almost feels like we're entering a pronouns phase for meme coins. So we got to see how that one plays out. But one of them is around 50 million. The other is around 6 million. And the one on Ethereum is doing the best. And I haven't even seen anything active on Twitter from that one. So, I mean, the next week is what we really need to be paying attention to.

One of them will most likely not perform as well as the other. Like there's going to be a clear winner when you just let the market decide. And I think a lot of the community members from one will end up going to the other but we need to just see how it plays out i don't i don't think this means going anywhere i mean it's the same owners as doge so it's pretty much solidified in crypto lore cool so so essentially meme world is still you know is back in action and and the mean coins are doing well again yeah is that a good way to kind of, we are very serious people. We are very, I would just like to, yeah, we are, we are not, we have not slept for 69 hours. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, honestly, the, the big thing from the,

from the meme space is that obviously Trump's Trump's speech hit all of the pandering talking, the political, the political, the political, the political, the political, the political, sorry, last question. on meme coins before Scott goes crazy. No, not the PolyMarkets. PolitiFy or PolitiFy meme coins, have they done well after the Trump speech or not really? The Trump backed tokens did. In terms of new ones spinning up, there was nothing that spin up in the new narrative. PolyMarkets was really the main beneficiary from the trump speech itself i think really what you're going to see now

is that with kamala harris coming out and saying that she's going to soften her stance you know that that will be kind of the new meta to keep an eye on is that she she's very memeable you know in terms of how they look at these things she has a lot of talking points she says some zany things similar to trump she's a little bit more articulate than biden so you know that that would be if you're going to keep your eye on what if i mean coins it's going to be that i can see it and then when they yeah i think the best performing politify meme coin has been kamala's as soon as uh biden made the announcement or as soon as the announcement was made that he dropped out the bowden meme coin tanked and a few different variants and derivatives of kamala that took off what are we doing i love you but i'm getting dumber yeah we'll go back to the macro discussion yeah so scott you can go back to the matter it's

not your fault it's like goodwill hunting it's not your fault i appreciate that you guys are covering it but man you know the fact that uh i guess it's a testament to crypto that we can go from talking about a president's speech to which dog is better. Yeah, well, bro, let's not make fun of it. The Trump coin, we're partnered with Magat coin, which is a Trump coin. They're sitting at 200. I'm just looking at the market cap. It's a quarter of a billion dollars.

It was over. I think it hit a billion earlier. So I don't know. That's going to be such huge losses for retail when that's zero. $750. Cool. And there will be huge losses for Doge when it's zero as well.

I think that debate, come on, man. I think we're going past the debate. You're becoming like a grandpa now. I think memes will continue. I just don't think that individual memes have stayed. Right. So why would that be like valuable in five years?

David, before we get into that same debate, we had like my first day back. Not the best thing to debate now, but we'd love to get your thoughts. Good to speak to you, Dave. Just I see your hand up and I'll be good to go back and vote for Robbie as well. Yeah, I want to see if I can get to a place of less wind. You guys hear me okay? Because it's windy where I am right now. Yeah, no, it's pretty bad, but I'm back in the hotel.

So my audio is good. Dave, your audio is bad. So please mute him and onto the audio is better. Dave, you can just jump in. Um, and so just jump in whenever your audio is better. Um, Robbie, how are you? Hey, I'm good thank you can you hear robbie scott can you hear me his audio is spectacular i'm the one that should have the shitty audio on the background i'm the one with the best audio

then then two americans here on stage or two two people in the us i'm not probably you're in the states as well i I'm not. And, Ryan, I saw the last video you did. I think your team was covering for you as well. And your general stance on the markets? Great, Ryan. I think everyone's doing a great job today, Scott. Sorry, are you directing that at me, Mario?

Can you hear Robbie, Mario? Oh, I can't you hear robbie mario oh i can't hear robbie sorry no he can't hear me that's why we're having a great time you should join us all right we'll see you soon mario robbie go ahead sure um honestly i i've my i don't have thoughts on the markets in the way that all the other speakers here who are a little bit better informed on the day-to-day movements of things than me. Because I think from my view, particularly in venture, the market for token launches, as we all know, has been choppy slash slow for the last five or six weeks. And I think particularly from my vantage point in Europe, where I live, you know, I think August is going to be slow. I'm expecting that things are going to get back and kicking full throttle in September, particularly around the time of token 2049.

But I don't, you know, I would not be surprised if things remain sluggish while people think about summer holidays and things over the next four weeks and isn't that what kind of always happens especially in this part of the having cycle for sure for sure but also it's just i mean honestly it's it's human nature people are busy trading stuff all day long and everybody needs a break yeah that makes perfect sense trying to add Mario, but it's not working in. Ran, you can still hear, correct? It seems like we have half the people can hear and half the people can't hear, which always makes for good spaces. Trying to add Mario once again. So,

Robbie, I mean, were you listening to the speech? Were you at the conference? I think you said you weren't going to hear. But most of the time, that's just geared towards, you know, getting a vote. And, you know, I still vote in the state of New York. So as you said earlier, it doesn't really matter what I vote for anyway. But I think one other topic that I would like to bring back, maybe if we want to talk at some point, is Telegram. Just because uh you know something that's just as fun as meme coins are things like hamster combat um and so i note that

hamster combat is just past 300 million installs um or users or whatever definition you want to call it you know and as i think i might have said though yes that's an actual so it's not i mean it sounds like a meme by name. That's actually like, we've seen Candy Crush and Farmville and all these things in the past. So that's not that surprising. Yeah, it's a, it's an idle clicker game. But I think, I think the thing that's cool about it is just the raw numbers are so immense that, you know, you can take as big a grain of salt as you want of there being bots or people with multiple accounts, etc. But I mean, how much do you want to shave off that? 90%?

I mean, it's still 300 million, so cut it down to 30 million. It still makes it massive. And they're planning to do a community airdrop, which could be one of the biggest airdrops that we've seen in Web3 so far. So I just wanted to remind people of that. And Robbie, I can hear you now. biggest airdrops that we've seen in web3 so far so i just wanted to remind people of that and um robbie i can hear you now and how about anamoka strategy with current market conditions because i see that token launches which is something that we're very heavy on yes haven't really approved along with the rest of the markets yes well and i think also it's because frankly if you just see

what the exchanges posture has been i think the the exchanges have been reluctant saying, hmm, maybe better to just kind of hit pause for a few weeks and then come back in September when we all know everybody's going to be focused on things again. Yeah. Ran, are you still as bearish, and before going to Jed, just on

VC-funded tokens, are you still bearish on those? I'm investing in one in a hundred probably. Like one in a hundred of what we see. How many a week are you doing? One every month maybe if we're lucky. Oh shit. I told you Mario,

we've been talking about this. I mean again, I say the project has to be so amazing for me to lock up money that it's like where I can get deals on the open. When I can do memes and deals on the open market, why would I lock up any money in a project? It just seems like a stupid trade. We'll see what happens in six months' time.

No, great. In six months' time, I'll start investing. No, but it'd be too late. No, no. The people that do well are the ones that come in really early. Right now, there's a lot, you know what happens when the market really improves

all the top tier projects suddenly have closed up for any capital, the terms get a lot more evaluation. What was the last project that you saw that you think is worth locking up money for? We've, I'm not kidding,

we invest in or partner with or work with 20 to 30 projects, I'd say a week at the moment. That's how active we are. Now, Small check sizes, but very big volumes. So if you're right and the, the, the, the, the, the market continues lagging, it's not going to be great for us. Um, we do obviously get, you know, we do get great terms, so we'll never be bad for us, but it won't be great for us.

But if I'm right and the market and Robbie's right as well, and the market does change, um, and the VC model hasn't died as Scott thinks it has. I don't think it's died. I don't think, I don't think it's died. I think that you just have to be selective. I think that we'll see another parabolic. I think we see another parabolic move to the upside, everything. I just point out to you like last year, I mean,

last cycle it was 2021 from January to May. Yeah, but I'd say just to be clear, we're not investing. So I want to be very clear. So we have like categories of projects we invest in. We have top tier, golden, and then it's fourth year, average and shit. We used to invest in earlier this year, from January, February, March, we would even invest in some average and shit we used to invest in in earlier this year from a january february march we would even invest in some average and shit because it mitigates the risk obviously if the terms are right from a marketing you know marketing deal plus investment

in most cases and now we're not touching those the 20 to 30 projects a week all of them are top tier or golden projects and the way we categorize them is mainly on who's backing them um other than the team the tech and all that just looking at who backed them who's incubating them etc you know seeing someone with obviously animal as an example seeing animal on the cap table makes him bro you're going to get wrecked because we had the same approach we had the same approach in the last cycle oh ftx is there uhameda. Alameda is in there. Alameda being there. Alameda being there. I remember us all running into projects because Alameda was in them.

And then have fun staying put. What you're doing right now is doing exactly what retail did. Oh, FTX or SPF. No. That was not bad. Apple doesn't need the model. That following other investors is not a strategy. Also, generally, a project will tell you Animoca is in,

but they won't tell you that they put in a 10 grand check or 20 grand check. No, no, no, Animoca is in, Animoca is in. How common, Robbie, how common is it for Animoca to put in a 10, 20k check? I'm just giving an example. I'm not saying specifically Animoca. Sure. I was just going to say from our perspective, we don't, I mean, 100 would be about as small as possible on average,

but usually it's... And would you ever, would you, are you still doing the spray and pray approach or are you a lot more careful now? Well, we're always praying and we invest a lot. So I guess I'm not sure what you'd call that. But... Pray and pray. Animoca, Animoca makes so much,

Animoca makes so many investments. I think in their office, they start every morning with a print, bro. They're every morning with the print exactly but I think one thing that's important though is and I think ran has a point here which is if people are claiming that we've invested in them call us email us text us we'll tell you no no it's it's not hard to do that because you know it's important that these things are clear and that the market knows have you invested in smoking chicken fish i have not i missed out like look why didn't you why didn't you give me the alpha up front 106 million dollar market cap people in

the office here got in at 750,000 i'm gonna launch smoking fish chicken right now and we're gonna get out of spaces and we're gonna to compete over the real money. I'm quite surprised because the team from smoking chicken fish told me on the mocha we're investors. I should have phoned you. I'm kidding. You're here to hear first, people.

Yeah, I'm just looking at smoking chicken fish now. Okay, cool. And just, Robbie, before going to the rest of the panel, hopefully Dave's mic is better. Just from a general viewpoint, I can ask you that question every time we speak, but is it the same narrative as before?

Has anything changed? Is anything overhyped, oversold? I think, no. I think the only thing is that, obviously, we're thinking differently about capital allocation only because the reality is that the market is slow right now and some TGs may be postponed. And so we have to keep that in mind. But I do think that our house view is that we're going to see, you know, a very exciting Q4. So it's just a matter of, you know, biding our time.

Dave? Hey, can I kind of... Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, of course, Jed. You put your hand down, so I wasn't sure whether you still wanted to jump in. Go ahead. Yeah.

So I think a few things on that quick discussion on like VC investing and kind of going on with like what the, on with what the big guys are investing in. It's quite a dangerous strategy because a lot of these funds have just raised too much money. And so they, you know, like, I think like there's Han that raised like 1.5 billion, like Electric raised like a billion and Dragonflies, I don't know, 600 million, Paradigms, 800 million. And so like, they're kind of, they need to deploy that capital. And what I've noticed is like the bar actually gets surprisingly low, in terms of in terms of terms. So they push up the price, they, they, they get bad terms. And it's just, it's just, it's just, it's not a great strategy, because incentives actually don't really, they need to return that

fund, they need to deploy that money. They're kind of the model where they need to extract management fees to raise the next fund. So it's, it's, you know, there obviously are some positives with like, you know, name brand and some help, but the portfolios are getting so extensive, like 100, 200, 300 companies within a portfolio. It's hard for them to help them all. So definitely, definitely be, be a little careful on that. I it is it is it is it is a nice shortcut though because like

a lot of like the dd is kind of done by them but um it's it's a bit of a risky strategy the real way to make returns and it's just like just hardcore old school VC is just really, really finding a team early investing that team having contrary intake, being really early on supporting even incubating that team getting a large chunk of low valuation, and then helping them structure their next round. That's like, really how you make returns in this business. Yeah, I also think Jed, I know we talked about valuations being a lot higher. There's just like cryptos at a stage now where it is becoming mainstream. So a lot of talent is coming into the space.

A lot more smart capital is coming into the space as well. I just really think that we're at a place where a lot of the things that were promised in previous cycles, we have the technology to materialize them. We have a sponsor coming on later. It's a gaming platform. So when we talk about gaming, for example, you know in the last cycle was just kind of ideas and theories on what can be built and what web3 games could look like but now we're seeing them actualize so i really you know for us just suddenly now where we're where the maturity or at least the industry's maturing and things are coming to fruition. Like, Oh shit,

the whole model doesn't work anymore. I just, I just feel like being contrarian on this particular point and going into the whole meme world, which we're involved in, but I still think it's, you know, you could say it's,

that's where all the attention is. So the gems are where people are not looking. And I think this is a place that people are just not paying attention to because you're not getting those crazy returns right now. So I think positioning yourself when the returns meet, um i think improved fundamentals um is it is good alpha yeah like like infrastructure is kind of overdone you know like there's only so many l2s that that can increase scaling or privacy or zk roll-ups or new l1s and bridges and all that kind of stuff it's it is it is really good it is a bit contrarian to be more on the consumer side everybody's looking for a consumer

um there are some promising companies but they just they just become flashes in the pan it's really hard to keep that momentum uh once you have them so really just find it's what what's really interesting about crypto vc rather than VC in general is teams pivot a lot. And even Pumped Up Fund, they start with an NFT exchange and they became Pumped Up Fund. I think it's a fresh cap table, but it's the same founders

and really, really, really going deep on the team and just having faith that like yeah it might not be the idea they start with at the seed stage um and so infrastructure projects could become consumer projects could become market makers could be all kinds of things so again this really goes back to being early being with the team and investing in that relationship is kind of how we see things typically play out. Dave, is your mic working? Yeah. I showed him requesting.

I'll try to bring him up, but I don't think he's up. Yeah. And your thoughts on the discussion, by the way, Scott, before I give you the mic. And maybe you could talk about the ECTF performance as well, something I haven't been keeping track of. Yeah, ECT it's it's been interesting i think everybody knew that et was going to sell off when grayscale made fees 2.5

percent so no major surprises i think in the first week there was 1.5 billion in outflows from et but 1 billion in inflows so obviously that outflow to the other eight products. So there's been quite a bit of demand. Just like we saw with the Bitcoin spot ETFs, there's a natural selling pressure that's going to eventually abate and things will go back up. So I don't see it as problematic. I think it's a weird time in the cycle for them to have launched. It was right into the Bitcoin conference, Trump's speech. But I think they're going to be massive down the road. I don't know. There was a story yesterday, BlackRock saying that model portfolios would include both the Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs by the end of the year. And I sat down with Matt Hogan in Nashville and then today on YouTube to have that same discussion. And in Nashville, ahead of even BlackRock saying it,

he said to me very clearly, the big wire houses are actually doing their due diligence, which we've known in the past. But he's like, this is faster than most of their due diligence. And by Q4, they're going to be online. We're talking about Morgan Stanley and names like that. He said, today on my show, Matt Hogan said he still thinks about 30% of the money that could potentially access ETFs has access to it right now, just because those platforms haven't come online. And if it starts getting added to model portfolios, which right now is a $4.9 trillion a year market that they think will go to 10 or 15, because that's the way people invest. I mean, it's, it's literally programmed to up only. It's pretty crazy. If you think about, if you think about how much money

that would be, and if it starts just getting passively invested by all of these platforms, which will happen, right? The same way I always kind of laugh, you know, there's that people who have IRAs, you know, ands and 401ks, you hear these people that are like, I just hate Elon Musk or I hate Mark Zuckerberg or something like that. I would never invest in Tesla or Facebook, but all of their investments are passively in index funds

and mutual funds and stuff. And they're probably like 20% exposed to these companies that they hate because that's how these funds are structured. It's going to be the same with people who say they hate Bitcoin and Ethereum. They're going to just... The ETFs are going to be invested in passively indexed as part of these funds. And they're going to have exposure to it whether they like it or not, because it's good for the Sharpe ratio of these funds. So that was a long-winded way of saying it's been a bit slow

to start, but it's all definitely coming. I just saw a ton of speakers fall off the stage. I don't know what happened. Mario, can you still hear? Yeah, I glitched out for me for a second. But it's working. Yeah, I saw like five, six people fell off

at the exact same time. Yeah, but Jonathan DB and followers are still here jonathan i saw you on mute follows can hear us db just making sure i can hear you guys yeah uh yeah yeah yeah or maybe the next question i have for you just general thoughts on the markets i think it's a good general update for the audience. DB, we'd love to go to you first. Yeah, sure. And first, I want to say, if you've got a direct line to Elon or anything, can we get more emojis?

That's what the entire conversation. I just want the poop and the forehead smack and the head explosion emoji. We need more for spaces. Is that what I'm talking about? The ETF or the smoking? The meme coins, for sure sure but all of it's definitely just want to be sure i didn't know i just wanted to show but it's again it's it's what we've always expected as far as the market and we're still in the same place we thought we'd be in what six nine twelve months ago and nothing's gonna really happen major for

what a couple months still? That's what we were calling. Even with all this big news, the Bitcoin conference, Trump, you guys covered it all. He said exactly what people wanted to hear. We'll see what actually happens. He's got to get into office first. And I'm right outside of Chicago, So my vote definitely doesn't count whatsoever. It's completely blue state here.

So I'm just with everything that's been said today. Yeah. I'm just looking at the polls, by the way, to see if... Because I think Kamala's numbers have been pretty impressive. She's closed the gap a bit further. Scott, have you been keeping track? I haven't believed the polls.

So now, I don't care. They're fake. I gave up on polling when Trump won and it was like a 90% chance that Hillary was going to win even based on exit polling on the day. But that was explained.

It was very steamy. It doesn't make them useless. A thousand random people in America do not represent America in a poll. They're broken. They're stupid. Okay, bro. Cool. So RFK could be

president, yeah? Is that what you're trying to say? Why? I think there's a non-zero chance, but very, very unlikely. Why unlikely? You'd be leaving the polls suddenly. Why would I? Because they're always wrong. Believing the polls is like believing the predictive markets on Fed rate cuts.

A year and a half, 97% chance of a rate cut in March 2023. Oh, great. Very good. It's just people are generally wrong. People don't tell the truth, I don't think, in the polls and I think it's fluid and what polls today will be completely different next week. So why does it matter?

These polls are a tool for them to keep us staring at the breaking news 24-7, 365 that's not breaking news and I7, 365. It's not breaking news. And I just, yeah, I don't care. Well, I'm not as extreme as you are. By the way, I cannot see the sponsor on stage.

Not sure, Blumen, are you on stage? Can you speak? Because I can't see you there. I know Scott can see you. I see. Oh, there it says, Blumen, can you speak? Yeah, hey, everyone, can you hear me? Oh, shit, all right, cool.

You are on stage. Yeah, I think, Jonathan, you were jumping. Can you hear me? Oh shit. All right, cool. You're on stage. Yeah. I think Jonathan, you would jump again before we go to Blumen. All right, cool. Um, you were not jumping Blumen. Um,

we're, we're, before we get into what you guys do appreciate coming on the show. Um, your thoughts on, on, uh, on Nashville,

uh, the Bitcoin conference and, um, just the, the, the VC ecosystem as well. You there? So you're talking to me?

I am. Yes. Blue Moon, yeah. Okay, okay, nice, nice. Yeah, I thought that's for Jonathan. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm not American myself. I don't pay too much attention, but there's things that you can't avoid. I can see the expectations were very high for everybody um and obviously there was some movement and i think

in the general scheme of things um um like we're seeing like slow growth uh but i think there's potential like what people don't realize is what happened last year and the transition to where we are today in terms of the price and acceptance worldwide. I think that's a major step. Everybody just focuses on the price, but I think there's definitely a long way to go. I think these speeches, they're like temporary news, but I think technically we're still on a good path.

Maybe it's taking longer than everybody wants, but I think it's got great potential. When did you guys raise your capital so we initially started the project in 2021 and since then we've been developing so most of our capital was raised in those times just before the previous bear market so we did get lucky at them times it was a bit different so we had the the funds to deploy for development so yeah i am speaking to many people, and they are explaining how it's a bit more difficult now

in different sectors, especially like metaverse, when we first started two years ago or three years ago, that was totally different. Yeah, I was going through, like, you're still using the metaverse word. You still call yourself, I'm not sure if it's coming out or not, but you still call yourself your gateway to the metaverse. So you're still sticking by the word, which I respect. I love that.

I think a lot of people are trying to avoid that word now because it's no longer the sexy word, but you still have it on a few of your banners and on your website as well. So maybe let's kick it off. And again, respect for using a word that's not sexy anymore. How would you describe Lumen for the audience? Yeah, thank you.

I think the core product that we developed initially was the metaverse. Well, what everybody calls the metaverse. The metaverse has so many different definitions, so it depends how you want to use that word. But we saw it as a social opportunity that has, in terms of blockchain and NFTs, that's the reason why the whole metaverse narrative

was resurrected and everybody was hyped how this technology combined with the metaverse or 3D environments or social 3D environments how we could implement blockchain frameworks and different like DAOs and voting and basically it's like

a new world that also has a new framework which you can step into and that's what people were getting excited about but people didn't see that happen and people saw people competing on graphics and people realize that it's not as good as the web 2 platforms out there and nobody wants to yeah yeah let's take a step back what is blue moon man like i mean on the bio just says on your twitter says your portal to social phi game GameFi, and the Metaverse. Collect NFTs, earn rewards, build your Metaverse. So you just mixed out a few different points here from GameFi,

which is so sexy, SocialFi, which hasn't gotten sexy yet, but hopefully soon, Metaverse, which was sexy and now is ugly, and then you've got CollectNFTs, which obviously are dead right now. How would you describe it for the average joe first for the people that didn't know about crypto until trump's speech a few days ago yeah absolutely so uh we want to put gaming first so we've seen that transition a lot of people come to play uh play games and and we want to provide a quality gaming experience so the whole ecosystem is a multi-platform ecosystem. So we have Telegram, we have mobile applications on iOS and Android,

and it's also going to be available on web. And same with our 3D platform. So it's going to be available on all different platforms. And the main thing that we want to provide is a complete experience. So there's many times you play a game and it feels incomplete. So we want you to be able to build your character and gamify the complete experience. So there's many times you play a game and it feels incomplete. So we want you to be able to build your character and gamify the whole experience. So when you join the game, you get involved with the story.

We have a very spacey story. And the whole job for you as a gamer is to build your credentials, build your profile, which you're going to compete with other users in the future. So we have like a turn-based strategy game that's going to compete with other users in the future. So we have a turn-based strategy game that's going to be launching next year. But the transition to having users and gamers, we have to show them how they can use the platform,

all of the stuff that we're going to be launching in the future. So initially, what we're going to be providing is simple games, switch on Telegram, and also have a simple game inside the mobile app. And then once we build the user base we're going to launch our bigger and more deeper games yeah they tell your tech team that there's a pop-up on your website that says join the pre-sale and there's no close button so you can't oh there it is now it works out perfect i can close it all good i appreciate it now i've

got the website open i couldn't close it the whole time i was going through your your cap table as well so essentially you're just a you're you're an ecosystem of so metaverse and gaming are putting together so you're you're just creating different games and it's going to be an ecosystem of multiple games correct yeah that's right so that's a long-term plan yeah okay and then the nfts are just digital the the assets you can own within that game that have utility within those different games within your metaverse, your blooming metaverse. And then the token, the blue token, is a utility token to be able to operate in this ecosystem, this metaverse and throughout these games, correct? Yeah, that's right. So we're using the mobile app that's going to be on iOS and Android as the user profile. This is the character that you're going to use in all of the different games. So essentially the mobile hub is your character.

And then we're going to have games on different platforms. It could be Telegram mini games. It could be games on the network. Let's pause, pause, pause. So Robbie was talking about how sexy Telegram is. We talked about Hamsa Combat being one of others. There's a few games doing well on Telegram. So essentially you're able to build on various chains, including Ton.

Yeah, that's right. To be honest, it's just a simple web app that's in the Telegram framework. So you can build any web app. You can even use deeper games. Everybody's doing clickers. It's very easy to set up. But you can have Unity games played inside the telegram mini app and the main benefits are like how many users you can access uh with telegram's user base it's very easy for people to not have to download anything but still experience it without having to

worry about going on a browser and uh yeah so i think that's the main benefit of telegram and it's going crazy right now but i think what's missing is really good games with good gameplay i think that's what's going to start coming yeah i'm just trying to i'm just kind of reading a couple of things on you did you um i'll look at the sheet before i ask my question to make sure maybe the answer is there um but just going back to the point so essentially do you allow a platform for people to build their own game as well? No, not at the moment. Okay. We build our own games, yeah.

Okay, because I misunderstood. So essentially you're building games, including games on Telegram. Do you have any games that are live right now with users, daily active users? So no, the current status that we're in is we've just finished our development. So in the next week or so, we're going to launch our first game on Telegram.

And then in the next two weeks, hopefully we'll have the mobile up ready. And that's the whole gamified profile experience. And this is where people can create their characters, collect their NFTs, and decide which type of gamer they want to be. So that's going to be the current stage, launching those two apps.

And then the game and the metaverse are going to launch after TGE. Yeah, I'm just looking at it. So you're working directly with us. So as IBC, I'm just looking at who came through. So that means we're on the cap table. So I'm glad to be on the cap table with you guys. And then you haven't listed yet.

You'll be listing on Bybit as well as, obviously, Uniswap. And then Launchpad, as you're working on with DAO Maker, Ape Terminal, CD5, Paid, Finceptor, and BSS Tidal, correct? Are you live yet? Maybe you're live, you're letting me speak. No, we're not live yet.

Did I get the details right about the single buy bit and then the various Launchpads that I'm at, including Change.upt potentially? Is that correct? Yeah, that was the initial conversation that we were having. We did delay the tg obviously when until when i'm just thinking what everyone's doing everyone's delaying obviously but everyone's going like august september correct late august early september for now could be even later yeah

yeah that's right the goal is now september so we had a many different conversations uh with these launch pads a lot of offers on the table uh by, we have a good connection with them with our previous project. So BlueMoon initially stemmed from Legion Network. So that's a blockchain super app. So initially, that's where we started to talk about BlueMoon. And that's where we started to present BlueMoon to our users. So initially, BlueMoon wasn't a retail product. It was purely metaverse just for businesses, for events. But then we saw the demand. People like the tech and we thought we should make our own retail version of the gaming ecosystem that included the metaverse. Oh, nice.

You've been on our show before already, were you? Yeah, yeah. A few weeks ago. Was I here? Was I here? Are you talking to Scott? I was speaking to David, I think it was. No, no.

I mean, when you were when you're on your, oh, your other channel. Oh, so you know, you've been on Crypto Town Hall, see you in five minutes, unless you put the wrong, oh no, sorry, July 23rd, you were on Crypto Town Hall a week ago. It says you were on this channel. I was wondering who you were speaking to.

I don't think so. Oh, no, no, last week it cut off. I don't know if you remember. Oh, 24 minutes it cut off. Yeah, we are, bro. Yeah, oh, okay. okay yeah scott you're still here um yes i'm just here okay um just um just back to the discussion um and you see you've got shima on your captain we've got master ventures um i know that master ventures is

investing less a lot less right now and she must be very active my guess is based on what i've seen you they've invested in the last cycle, considering you still have Metaverse in the name, et cetera, in your title and your description. Correct? Yeah, that's right. So that's right in the beginning. Shisha Finance.

Yeah, that's old school. You've got a lot of old school names on there. Yap Capital. Yeah, so they were initial backers. They're the one that gave us the funds and enabled us to do it. What valuation did you raise that? So initially starting at 18 million for seed and then launched around 30 million.

Have you done any rounds recently? So currently yeah, we've had another seed round which is closed now. What valuation was that one? We're working with that was the one that was 80. What was the one

master and she ran a restaurant? Oh, that was like a pre-seed. That was way before we did auto-economics.

So when we started to develop and show the ideas, so that was the initial stage a few years ago. What was it? The reason was

usually, I know usually it'd be pre-seed pretty low, but considering you raised it in the last cycle when Metaverse was still sexy, maybe you got a pretty high valuation

down round. The exact numbers are hard, in terms of the valuation, because we weren't raising directly for Blooming Token at that time. We were more raising for the development. So the main token that we launched three years ago was Legion Network. And part of that was the second product that we were more raising for the development. So the main token that we launched three years ago was Legion Network.

And part of that was the second product that we were going to launch was going to be Blue Moon. Hold on, Legion Network is you guys? Yeah, so we originally started the project. So now we've separated. So we have two different teams. So Legion Network is still running. So we had a really good start.

We had millions of users. And one of the promises that we made is that we are going to develop a metaverse. And that was blooming. So that started at the same time in terms of development. So it's like a sister company. One token or both to have different tokens? No, so Legion has its own token,

which is directly utilized in the Super App, which is different services. Anthony invested in the other one or no? No, that's a different one. Sorry, I'm just going through my... I got lost. He's not there, no, no. I was wondering because that's not something you'd be investing in. All right, cool. I got it. I got it. So essentially, you've got different different games different ecosystems on different chains all of them are compatible with the blue

please if I get something wrong don't be shy and correct me the blue token and the NFTs you've launched your NFT collection already no so these NFT collections are going to be launched in the mobile app and this is where people will be able to collect the assets.

So we haven't launched anything yet, like no token or no NFTs. And these are going to be collectibles that you collect inside the mobile app. Nice. So you've got an office in Burj Khalifa, on the Burj Khalifa district. New Burj Khalifa, I guess. So especially just going back to what I've described it, you've got different games, including on Telegram. You haven't got any that are live now.

I'm just watching one of your promo videos. I don't know how old it is. And all of it will be within the Blue Moon ecosystem, let's say, with the Metaverse

and with the Blue Moon token as a utility for that. I can see here in your video, you've got like a Blue Moon Metaverse. You've got like someone can open a house, select the NFTs,

furnish the house. Can you describe that? How does that relate to the gaming ecosystem? And they display the NFTs in the house. So this is back to the old school version, the metaverse. So are you still building that or just doing games for now? People sitting on a couch,

watching TV. I just think it's true. I don't know. It just feels too real life. Like that is, I think a metaverse is more interesting when they're not like real life, when physics don't know. It just feels too real life like that is. I think metaverses will be more interesting when they're not like real life, when physics don't apply, when people don't need to sit on a sofa and watch TV, as I'm seeing in the promo video.

Has that changed or is that still the vision? Because I think the game is going to be a lot more interesting. That's what's gaining traction right now. Yeah, that was the initial plan when we first started. A lot of companies were developing metaverses. So what was missing was the experience of being able to transact inside the metaverse. And that was one of the things that we really wanted to do was if you meet another user, instead of just speaking to that user, you should be able to transact seamlessly.

Is that still a feature? Because I've seen them transacting NFTs in the video. I think those days, this is too early for that. That was already developed. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, that was already developed. So that's why we've still got the metaverse because we spent a lot of time developing it. But the way that we've implemented it into the gaming ecosystem

is the user profile that you have in the mobile app is going to be used everywhere. So the digital assets that you collect on the mobile app, you can bring these into the metaverse, which is one part of our gaming ecosystem, but your character can also be used on the mini games that we launch on mobile. So that same user profile that you have on the mobile, you can also bring that character into the Metaverse. So those people that want to create communities, they want to have a conversation, the Metaverse is a more social platform um we do have partnerships

with like hate which is the nft collection we're helping them build their uh uh the catwalk that's called the hate fork so we're we have a few different collaborations and our characters they're going to be able to go to different different platforms so that was the initial vision in the last year or so we decided to focus more on gaming because we wanted to have users that enjoy all the tech that we've built. So the initial narrative of events and going to the metaverse to do transactions, because most of that was developed, we thought, how could we incorporate that into our gaming ecosystem?

So we didn't want to eliminate it totally because it's still a great experience. But it's not everybody's cup of tea today, but we think that it still provides a good experience. So we want to eliminate it totally because it's still a great experience but it's not everybody who's cup of tea today but we think that it still provides a good experience so we wanted to keep it I appreciate it I appreciate bringing us

on the cap table congratulations on what you've built so far and I'm glad you're finally launching and your investors from the last cycle are going to obviously

see a good successful launch I've been going through your website as you're speaking as well so key to see when those games launch I think the daily use the metrics there the retention turn I think those ones will be the more important metrics moving

forward obviously the performance of your launch but otherwise yeah it's a pleasure to speak to you man appreciate coming on the show and appreciate everyone joining we'll see you again tomorrow same time as always if anyone that wants to check out blue moon and they're on the stage and the handle is in the title as well. We should

probably pin a tweet on every sponsor we have on during the show. This is going to be useful.

We'll start doing that soon as well. You can see the handle in the title.

Blue Moon. Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate joining. Bye everyone. Thank you so much for

joining. Later guys. Bye. Thanks guys. Thank you. Bye bye.