The Wolf Of All Streets - MT GOX REPAYMENT DELAY | Anti-CBDC Bill Approved | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

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Hey guys. What's up? How are you doing? Yo, Mr. Meyer. I don't know, I feel really bad today. Yesterday was the first time we missed a show because of miscommunication and laziness. I feel bad. I feel guilty as fuck.

It's a pretty dark day for us. I thought we should do a moment of silence. I was on the show. I ran to Angela at quarter past now and I was like, when are we starting? When are we starting when are we starting why isn't there a link and she said no we're the same exactly same i was like we're only doing a show that i'm like but why i i mean like i was really i was yeah i was ready to rock and roll yeah we could do both we could do the crypto town hall and then we could do the fomc how are you

feeling how are you feeling i'm not great, but a little better today. I can't, you know, I'm kind of have the mix of COVID and jet lag. He's not. COVID and jet lag. Yeah, he's not. He's not. Scott, he's not asking you, but he should be. No, I was actually about to ask you. Every person I talked to from Singapore, from Token 20 2049 not ran or like one or two other

people he was with everyone else has govind i like 15 20 people yeah i agree i people can mario how are you feeling this biohacking is making you making you um no i i i got free points i took what he we took out out Wahid for his birthday two days ago. And we booked him a really nice restaurant. They're so weird. The restaurant was empty. For some reason, they didn't like that. So they walked out of the restaurant because it was empty.

It was a really nice restaurant. They went to some other random restaurant. They ate Mexican food. I don't eat chicken or meat maybe once in a while, but I don't usually eat it. So I ordered seafood. It was horrendous. And then I got food poisoning. This is what happens when Mario leaves needs a house friend he's not allowed

i get sick listen i i want to spend i i we have to spend a i woke up this morning the first tweet that i saw this morning was your tweet about uh russell brand and the letter that was sent uh by let me just... Let me just open it up. That's crazy to rumble. Well, no. Hold on. It wasn't anything to rumble. The same letter was sent,

I think, to Twitter. And I think the same letter was sent to TikTok. And I'm assuming to Instagram or to Meta as well, right? And I'll tell you what worries me about this. And I think there's a big case here

why am i talking about this um when we're talking about crypto so in the letter they say you know there's these allegations but for anyone who doesn't know the allegations against russell brand which are not yet proven in a court of law it's it's allegations by mainstream media around something that happened in the past. Now, what they say is, I'll read you the letter. It says, Dear Theo, I'm writing this. Okay, this comes from the Culture, Media, and Sports Committee in the House of Commons. It says, Dear Theo, I'm writing concerning the serious allegations

regarding Russell Brand in context as a user of TikTok with more than 2.2 million followers on the platform. The Culture, Media, and sport is raising a question with the broadcasters who previously employed Mr. Brand or production companies who employed him to examine both culture and industry in the past and whether that culture still prevails today. Although Mr. Brand no longer appears on television, he now has a follower base on social media, including TikTok, where this weekend he republished his preemptive response to the accusations made

against him by the Sunday Times, and I can't read the other two because you put a red block around them. Now, it says here, while we recognize that TikTok is not the creator of the content published by Mr. Brand, and his content may be within community guidelines set out by the platform, we are concerned

that he may be able to profit from his content on the platform. We would be grateful if you could confirm whether Mr. Brown is able to monetize his TikTok posts, including his videos relating to the serious accusations against him, and what the platform is doing to ensure that creators are not able to use the platform to undermine the welfare of victims of inappropriate and potentially illegal behavior. Now, what worries me is the following. This is coming from a government department, and it is coming to one of the big media outlets, so to speak, new age media outlets, one of the big distribution platforms.

And what they're trying to do here is to put pressure on these guys to demonetize someone who hasn't been proven guilty in a court of law. Okay. Which is, first of all, I think that that is crazy, disgusting, ridiculous, all of these things. Here's the thing that worries me the most. This is version 1.0. Version 2.0, they don't need to write letters because they just use a CBDC. So if we were in a stage of a CBDC, if we were in an age where the government had a CBDC, they wouldn't need to write letters to any of these big things.

They would just stop his wallet, not allow money to come in and out of his wallet. And so I really think that, you know, we're talking about the anti-CBDC bill, which is approved. And I think there couldn't be a better day to do this on a day where we're seeing something like what we just saw. This to me, guys, is absolutely, absolutely scary. You can get canceled at any time just because the mainstream media want to cancel you mario that means that you could have been cancelled and if there was a cbdc at the time when this happened to you that would cut off your money that's it no money for you there's no more money in and out of mario's wallet why because we just

decided and this is the part that worries me rand do you remember a while ago and and and this does relate to crypto because all we talk about here is decentralization decentralizing social media decentralizing money and do you remember we talked i don't know if you remember a while ago you were very critical of mainstream media and i was like kind of pushing back and i'm like look i wouldn't be that critical i don't think all mainstream media is bad i still have that stance, but I'm leaning more and more to your way. For anyone listening, I was very, very, I'd say I'm going to use the word naive. I looked at mainstream media as having a place in this world, journalists

doing something that's needed, and I still have that belief, but I never thought they would choose a narrative over facts. And then obviously I went through what I went through, where a hit piece came out with literally zero facts and two questionable sources that had no evidence. And then when we presented them with the evidence contradicting what they said, they didn't care. They just ignored it. They said, look, it's too late to change the story. Even one of the sources said, like, hook, I don't have evidence. Can you remove me from there?

They refused. And I'm like, holy, I don't have evidence. Can you remove me from there? They refused. And I'm like, holy shit. Like this is, that was NBC in my case. I'm like, holy shit. Like this is a platform that I respected, that I thought care about facts. And then now Russell Brand, we saw what happened. Allegations.

I've looked at the allegations. One of them is very serious. Others are ethically questionable. One of them is a matter of rape. Now, this is a guy that slept with, he says he slept with thousands of women. And again, these are allegations. He hasn't even gone to court. As soon as the allegations came out, his shows got canceled, promoters dropped him, his channels got demonetized, YouTube included, and they're trying to get him demonetized or

removed from other platforms. Yesterday, sponsors left. And that's all within days of these allegations coming out. Allegations? That hasn't even been proven. It's insane. And that's in a sensational documentary that came out. It just shows how fragile it is when they target you. When I say they, there's no people sitting in a boardroom. They'll say, hey, we're going to target Mario today. But there are ways to cancel people. I never thought those ways would work. I never thought society would allow it, the systems would allow it.

But people just, you know, either they don't notice or they just don't care enough. For YouTube to demonetize someone because of allegations is ridiculous to me. YouTube are the first ones. YouTube are the first ones. for YouTube to demonetize someone because of allegations is ridiculous to me. YouTube are the first ones. YouTube are the first ones. They were the first ones, if you remember, to de-platform Dr. Robert Malone.

They were the first people to de-platform the Tates. They were the first people to de-platform. I think there was an issue with Joe Rogan at the time. YouTube are the worst. YouTube are the absolute, absolute, absolute worst. Does that worry you

since your show is all on YouTube? Of course. that was a big part of why we started this if you remember mario i mean everyone on youtube especially in crypto has a concern that they could be deplatformed there and need to build something elsewhere that's crazy yeah like i i did i do do another tweet i think that's on that so that's one that elon replied to um where i talked about them targeting elon uh for not canceling Russell Brands. So Elon's pushing back. And they sent a message saying they want to investigate if he's personally intervened in any decision on Russell Brands' status on the platform. And it seems – I've asked him to see what he – he hasn't said anything publicly, but it seems that they're not suspending Brand or demonetizing him, which I wouldn't expect them to.

And Rumble said openly, look, we're not going to accept demonetizing or suspending anyone. But yeah, it's scary stuff, and it goes back to the real reason – one of the real reasons we are here and one of the main use cases of crypto, and that's decentralizing various aspects of society. And there is need for it. If you don't see that need, well, this is just another example that we saw a few days ago. But yeah, Ryan, do you want to kick it off with the FOMC recap? Markets didn't react much. Markets actually did react,

but the market reaction was a little bit postponed. I mean, yesterday markets didn't react. This morning markets started did react, but the market reaction was a little bit postponed. I mean, yesterday markets didn't react. This morning markets started to react. But I think this morning they're reacting to the FOMC decision or other factors? I think, look, the thing that I've been talking about for a while is that I think the market didn't expect another interest rate hike. I said that I'm willing to put a 95% chance that there's going to be one more interest rate hike. I'm not sure when.

I'm just saying there's going to be one more interest rate hike. Looks like the market's now, you know, the market's starting to price in, almost starting to price in one more interest rate hike, as well as rates high for a very long time. And that's just what the market's reacting to. Gareth? Oh, Gareth is not here reacting to. Gareth?

Gareth is not here. Where's Gareth? Mike, David. David, I'm not sure if you were on Danish's crypto space, sorry, finance space yesterday. I'd love to get your thoughts on it and just a bit of an update on the decision yesterday. I think the decision was as expected by everybody. I don't think there's anybody that expected something different.

And again, I wasn't particularly troubled by the rhetoric. I actually thought the rhetoric was as expected as well. I think, you know, it's going to be longer. I think we're in a new paradigm in terms of interest rate environment. It's going to last for a very long time. I mean, I'm not thinking rate cuts at all, 2024, 2025, unless, you know, there's a calamitous, you know, crack in the economy. You know, I think that this is where we're at for quite a while. And I think we get

another, I think we get a 25 basis point bump in November. I think that just, you know, gives Powell credibility. I think it, you know, it continues to kind of validate what he's been saying. I think the 2% inflation target is set in stone. We'll see how that, you know, unfolds over the next 12 to 24 months. But I think that this is where we're at. I think people have to go ahead and get used to it. I don't really understand why the market sold off so hard because of all this anticipation. Clearly, it wasn't baked in. And we'll kind of have to wait and see what happens between now and November. My biggest concern next on the calendar is, frankly, holiday season activity in terms of the consumer. I'm really concerned about where the consumer is.

I mean, we're putting more money in people's pockets because of wage hikes. Unions are doing well, negotiating hard, getting money. We saw a New York City bus, bus, school bus driver deal this morning. Hopefully we'll get a UAW deal at some point. I don't know. It seems like things are going in a better direction in Hollywood this morning, at least from reports. So, you know, wage increases obviously is going to lead to stickier inflation. Granted labor, you know, organized labor is only 10 percent of the overall workforce but at the end of the day you know if we have people thinking that they could go in ask their bosses for a raise

you know people will go out and continue to spend i really am curious about what happens in the upcoming holiday season by the way oh separately we're definitely seeing already companies that have high leverage multiples where interest expense is clearly going to cause them an issue when they refinance, looking to go ahead and restructure. They need to bring down their debt loads now. There's not a rate cut in sight. They tried praying. The prayer didn't work. And so therefore, the next time they go to the market to go ahead and borrow money, it's going to be a lot more expensive for them. And we're seeing prophylactic discussions going on with companies to go ahead and bring down their overall leverage because, frankly, they just can't afford it. And especially if the consumer gets any weaker with, you know, if top line drops and their interest expense goes up, you know,

they'll be crushed. So we're seeing a lot of those discussions going on right now behind the scenes. Mike, one of the things that Powell said in his speech is that a soft landing is the primary objective. So if we start getting indicators that maybe we're going to be getting a hard landing, if not a very hard landing, things start to change. It's not looking like it now, but if things start to change, do you think that we could see a change,

maybe that 2% inflation target is no longer set in stone or that's not a possibility? It's set in stone globally, macro all central banks with exception of few peripheral ones so that don't have to worry about that changing but we are seeing leading indicators showing significant severe signs of major recession potential depression kicking in just look at housing just look at retail sales x retail sales if you exclude inflation are the worst since the great financial crisis. That's not just here.

It's also in Europe. And they're still tightening. So what we're seeing on the screen now is I agree with some of what David said. But what we're seeing on the screen now is completely what I've been expecting for a while, just getting started. I mean, we've just gone past this summer lax period. You remember 2008? Very similar. Back then, we had the Olympics in China.

And now we're rolling over to reality. Our models from our economics team is 100% recession within the next six months. Yes, we've been early. But now the case is these things started a year ago, the Fed has still kept tightening. Now, this is not the Fed, this is everywhere. So I think what you're seeing on the screens now is just getting started. You have to ask yourself, what stops it? The Fed will not be easing anytime soon. That's clear. That, what stops it? The Fed will not be easing anytime soon. That's clear. That's what Chairman Powell said.

They will not be tightening again either. I think they're done. And that's just simply watching Fed fund futures. For November, it's around 30%. But if the stock market keeps doing what it is now, that's the number one force to stop there from hiking. So I think they're done. We're at that pause stage where the next move is going to be eased.

So look at this. Who knows when that ease is going to come, but after it does come, typically, if you look at what's done happen, the last two major bear markets recessions since 2000 peak, it takes about two years after the first ease. So this is just getting started. And the number one factor, if you look on the screens, is that U.S. government, too, you know, that is a giant black hole sucking sound for risk assets. So finally, we're seeing a you look on the screens, is that U.S. government, too, you know, that is a giant black hole sucking sound for risk assets. So finally, we're seeing a little bit on the screens today. The good news is Bitcoin's down on a risk adjusted basis less than most other risk assets. That's what I've been wanting to see for a little while.

The problem is I fully expect in a normal correction, a normal recession, which has barely started, which is almost inevitable. This is stock market will drop 50, maybe 40 percent from the peak. It's so far from there. And Bitcoin should should follow that. So here's the key thing, what we should look forward to. Fed's not going to be easy to help you out. Housing markets collapsing. If you definitely look at things like existing home sales, retail sales are negative in contraction. Unemployment's low, but it's starting to tick up. Every time it ticks up from these lows, you have a severe recession. So I'm not doom and gloom.

I just want to point out facts. Look at today. Copper is breaking down. It's been showing you weakness all year. The recent spike we've had in crude oil and energy is really, it's solidified more rate hikes from the Fed and the ECB and the Bank of England. And then I love this little comment from Governor DeSantis looking for $2 a gallon gasoline. That's going to happen anyhow next year. That's my view.

I'm going to publish on that tomorrow just based on the pure trends. We have a massive surplus supply and demand in terms of gasoline in the U.S. and Canada. But in terms of markets and cryptos, I think what you're seeing is the beginning of what is going to probably wipe out most of the rally from this year, which is in the back of hopium for the recession not to happen. And by the way, Mike, they've even gone a step beyond hopium, saying that there won't be a recession till 2027. Well, that's what happens. I mean, this is, it's not. And I want to talk to you, Mike,

and then also go to Peter, because Peter, I saw your charts that basically with the treasury rates breaking out effectively saying that you think that there's going to be multiple more rate hikes. Yeah, I do. And Mario, I put a series of charts

on Twitter with your handle, Twitter handle adjusted to it if people want to take a look at it. But, you know, the key thing is we broke out on the charts across the yield curve, 2, 5s, 10s, and 30s yesterday and today. You know, the time to be a major yield hawk, of course, was back in late 2020. But yet this was an important breakout in the charts yesterday. And for me, if I just look at the charts, there's between two and four rate hikes yet to occur. What I've commented on many times on your space here, Mario, is the fact that if you look at like the December 2024 contract to SOFR, it's way overpriced and with big downside. And, you know, so for me, I'm long five years, I'm long 10 year futures. And I just think that rates go up or short, short the futures

long, long the rates. Mike, does that align at all with your view? I mean, no, I just you think they're gonna stop. Let's have some good disagreement. I completely disagree with Peter. I hope you're right, Peter. But this is how it usually works. You have to show chart breakouts. But if that happens, what's that going to do for the stock market, the stock market has to make that happen. Right now we're in a situation where this high rates and high yields in the U.S. is breaking the global economy. China has to intervene to support their currency.

It's collapsing. Japan has to intervene to support their currency. It's collapsing. And now you see the stock market breaking down. It's just getting started. So to me, everything's going to follow the stock market here down, including rates. The thing is is we're not going to see the ease we have in the past so i completely respect peter but having traded futures and bond futures since 1980s this is i've been early i've been wrong i've been stopped out but i've been looking if i was trading to put on long positions whenever possible

because this is the fed will always react eventually when they have to and markets will generally always do what it should if this doesn't happen over time so to me just watch the stock market if they were to do what peter says that's a collapse of the stock market right now i'm just looking for a normal bear market that might be just getting started that makes sense uh anyone else have a particular view on this before we move on to the anti yeah what's your hold on scott what's what's your view scott my view is uh similar to rand i think we get probably listen first of all that my view is irrelevant because nobody knows anything but um i would say they'll tighten one more time if i had to guess and then uh just keep it here

for an exceptionally long time until something breaks. The overwhelming thing that I don't understand how people don't listen to the Fed. I mean, Mike always says, don't fight the Fed. Powell has never changed his tune in a single one of these meetings about what they intend to do or how they're going to approach it. Yet we see all these predictive markets saying that we're going to see rate cuts coming soon and that there's going to be a pivot. I mean, we've obviously argued the pause is not a pivot debate here endlessly. But if you guys remember, I mean, I've said this before, six months ago, they were pricing in three rate cuts in 2023, right? And now we're having conversations about

nothing happening until 2025, 2026. So I think it's important to note that the predictive markets are completely schizophrenic. It's true. Let me read out the news and get back into crypto. Actually, before doing so,

I've got a question for you, Mike. When you said earlier about the economy being into, you know, we're going to have a recession in the next six months and potentially even a depression. But then you've got the Fed talking about, you know, them focusing on a soft landing.

So why would they choose that language? And I wouldn't, look, I wouldn't dismiss those people. You've got some of the smartest people working at the Fed, whether you like them or not. So I wouldn't dismiss what they say. I'm sure they have more data or a lot of the same data that we have. But I'm sure they look at all data, not only back, you know, old data and lagging data, lagging indicators. So my question to you, Mike, is why would they say one thing,

yet the economy is doing a completely different thing, in your opinion? Well, I first, I'd like to premise your question, Marius. First to point out, these are some of the smartest people on the planet, but they're not traders. They're not strategists. They're economists. And I've done this my entire career. I remember being on a trading desk and running as a primary during trading treasuries. And we would listen to economists. We'd talk to them. We're friends. And sometimes we do the exact opposite because they're great at focusing on the past and pointing out some really good things but their classic case i think of the biggest swing in history of them going way too easy for way too long and now going way too tight for too long too

quick is kicking in everywhere so i always look at the forward-looking data they are horrible if you look at stuff that's really mattered for markets in the future. And the bottom line, I think what I noticed that Chairman Greenspan really missed about what really one of my best calls ever was that big collapse in 2008. The problem is I got started getting short in 2007, was the number one thing in markets is never forget where you're from. Before this process started of the Fed starting to hike, the US stock market was the most expensive versus GDP. This is Warren Buffett model since 1937, versus sales, the highest ever versus the rest of the world, the highest ever. This is MSCI X US

and versus US housing, the highest ever. But there's a good reason for that. We pumped the system with liquidity, we needed to do that. And we had the longest period in history of zero interest rates. What came out of that? Cryptos. Now the facts have changed. As David pointed out, we are in a higher for longer rate. We can get guaranteed in two years, we're going to get over 10% net to you. The facts have changed. That means this biggest period in history of a biggest pump in liquidity and risk assets is in the process of reverting. It can't happen overnight. Cryptos are part of it. And this is, I think, what the big picture macro, typically the big picture people at the Fed typically miss. Greenspan missed it during the housing crisis. And Bernanke kind of nailed it when he wrote that.

He nailed it. But I think this is what they're missing is that big historical bend. Now we have, I just look at the screen and I see if I'm a prudent money manager, and I can find 5.13% of the tuneo guaranteed in the world's strongest currency that's still rallying. I'm going to do that and lock in all those profits I made for the last 20 years. And I think that's what the flow is right now. Yes. I just want to I want to ask Scott a question, maybe Mike follow up on it. So Scott made the point about the fact that the market had it all wrong in terms of the anticipation of rate cuts coming so soon. Right. Really? Like incredibly, incredibly wrong. Right. Do you think that based on that, the market should be lower right now?

Like if the market – So then – No, actually – Go ahead. I think that it – go ahead. Sorry. No, no. I just – to me, in other words, Mike's arguments are very valid, right? To sum it up, Mike, go ahead and correct me.

You really think that this sucking sound is going to happen in a major, major way, and it just takes some time. My pushback on that is you're dealing with very liquid assets, talking about cash, equities, fixed income. People can rotate their portfolio in a second if they want to, and if that is the truth that you're talking about, right? Crypto too, right? want to and if that is the truth that you're talking about right crypto too right so if if everyone got it so wrong and if the the the the the outlook is so dark then why hasn't the rotation happened what are people waiting for mike go ahead mike yeah Mike? Go ahead, Mike. Yeah. Yeah, Mike, you got it on mute.

But in the meantime, Scott, I do want to get into the crypto news, if that's good with you. Yeah, that's fine. And David, absolutely. David, I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I do think, though, that maybe it's just kicking the can down the road. I mean, we know that historically the stock market correction comes after the pivot. So if that pivot just keeps getting kicked down the road, then maybe that's when we get the bigger correction. Do you think there's – I mean, do you guys foresee a recession?

And if yes, why and when? I don't. I mean, there's already a recession all over the world, right? I mean, Eurozone went into recession. Other countries, the United States, not necessarily. I love how we only talk about whether it's the United States or not. But I just don't see how they thread this needle personally. Go ahead, David.

Yeah, I actually think the Fed is going to stick this landing. It's going to take a long time, right? I don't know the best. You know, it's either a gymnast or an airplane coming down. Gravity takes over in the landing clearly it's not going to be perfect landing we're not going to get a 10.0 but i think it's going to be pretty smooth because it's going to take so much time in contrast i think mike believes we're going way too fast at the landing and we're just gonna you know splatter all over the runway um and i i again you know mike has i'd say history and data points on his side

and i believe you know frankly that this time's different that's all i'm gonna get to the market news guys i'm just going through all the the different points one interesting one ran uh you remember the the PayPal stablecoin that you discussed? Well, some updates there. First, the market cap of PYUSD. So the news and the reason I'm talking about it is that they've just rolled out PYUSD to Venmo users, which is really good news. But what surprised me as I was reading the article by Fortune is that their market cap right now is at $44 million. So I actually read it, and i thought it was 44 billion and then like this pales in comparison to that of tether which is just over 83 billion and usdc

which is at 26 billion i'm like hold on 44 billion is more than usdc what am i missing here and it's pretty close to tether in such a short period of time um but obviously it's a pretty big number so quickly yeah but i know but it's just, but it's still like 44 million. You're looking at at least a couple of billion, even though it's just started. It's just started. Come on. It's just started.

There's no trading pairs on it. It's a retail coin that is literally, people haven't even learned how to use it. I mean, give it time. But it's already on a bunch of exchanges. I think it's already on crypto.com. I have a feeling it's on Coinbase as well. It's just started.

It's just started. It's just started. What are your thoughts on the news of them rolling it out to Venmo users? That's pretty good. It's not really news because they said they were going to do it when they made the announcement. So maybe they've just actually implemented or switched on the on button. I think the onboarding of users to let them understand. You know, the majority of people

don't even know what this is. Like we know because we're crypto bros, but majority of users don't even know what this is. So it's going to take time to educate the market. And then you've got the,

so in other news, you've got Mt. Gox repayments were delayed. We'll talk about this in a bit. They'll now finish next year. They keep getting delayed and delayed. I don't know how many years

it's been already. And you've got five more pieces in use uh so bitcoin balance on exchanges is at a five year low right now um south koreans that's another interesting metric or did you guys me obviously i'm not you're not gonna ask people where they're from but um i'm guessing you know you'll have a lot of startups from south korea and sing Singapore when you guys were there, right, Scott? Because South Korea, they've just – okay, there you go. Tax organization, they've disclosed that crypto accounted for the largest proportion of taxpayers' assets overseas. So crypto assets made up 70% of South Koreans' overseas accounts.

So you noticed that when you were in Singapore, Scott? Yeah, I mean, Korean volume, even just trading relative to everywhere else is absolutely insane. But crypto, that's one of the markets where it thrives the most, for sure. So yeah, that does not surprise me in any way, shape or form. And then you've got the other the other bill, not sure, David, if you've looked into that bill to get your thoughts on it i know ryan is pretty passionate about it but the the uh the cbdc um so the house committee's passed a bill to ban the cbdc so that bill now needs to go through the uh senate i guess um how big it's still a past committee i think so i think it still actually needs to pass congress but i could be wrong okay so how what the the process and the likelihood in it still actually needs to pass Congress but I could be wrong okay so the process and the likelihood in your opinion for that

to pass Congress Congress maybe Congress maybe but Senate and President wait wait wait guys do you guys feel like a rant because if you feel like a rant today I've got an excellent fucking rant for you guys

if you feel like a rant go for it I'm warning you but a good today, but an excellent fucking rant for you guys. If you feel like a rant. Go for it. Go for it. Okay. How many times? I'm warning you that once you let loose, it's going to be worse than the previous rants. It's the highlight of my day,

Ran. Let's go. Have at it, buddy. Okay. Okay. Hold on. Hold on.

I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you a rant. By the way, before I rant, have you guys signed up for post.tech yet? Mario, have you while i'm getting my rant ready have you have you signed up to post no no we should we should get a rant ready okay no here's the rant okay here's the rant okay get this maxine waters maxine waters right we all know who maxine waters is, okay? Yes, no? Okay.

Yes. For me, she is the epitome of everything that is wrong in the United States. Her, Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Elizabeth Warren. So listen to what she says, okay? Listen to what she says. This is the part that got my blood fucking boiling, okay? Listen. She says, we shouldn't ban CBDC.

Why? Because it will keep the United States behind other countries, including China, as a race forward to develop the global standard for central bank digital currencies. She said also, deeply anti-innovative stance on the technology, which has been embraced by other nations. She said the legislation would stifle that research and prevent us from moving forward, even if it means that the dollar loses its status as the world's reserve currency. And even if it means the U.S. citizens lose out on faster, cheaper, simpler payments.

These are the same people that are pushing blockchain out of the United States. She has the cheek to say that they shouldn't ban CBDCs because it'll keep United States behind other countries, including China, in a race to develop a global standard and that it would stifle a recent innovation in the United States and prevent them from moving forward.

Excuse me? That's what we've been telling you about blockchain for how long? And now you're coming and saying, I don't know, if it's blockchain, it's not good. But if it's a CB's a cbdc no no don't let china get ahead of us in a cbdc keep the research in the united states god forbid we shouldn't win when it comes to technology oh but the core of the technology which is blockchain you're kicking out of the country

this is this is the epitome of the rot that is in the United States. Maxine Waters, if you're listening to this, you are the epitome of everything that is wrong with the United States. And it got my blood fucking boiling. I don't know how you guys feel about it. I think you know how I feel about it. Ran, I'm totally with you. I'm totally with you. And I'll say it's very telling.

I mean, say it another another way she wants the government to control the technology spend the money on it because she believes as do most democrats that big government is the way to go they always get it right and the private markets are corrupt and they always get it wrong and they screw the little guy i i am i agree with what Maxine Waters said, as long as you understand what her intentions are. What she said is accurate. If you want to achieve the advancement that she's talking about without decentralization. So they want to achieve those advances. They don't want to fall behind other countries.

But they don't want to lose control either. So this is in her mind, it's in the middle ground. Please don't tell me that you don't want to stifle innovation, that you're all up for promoting innovation. She doesn't, but she wants, no, no, but maybe she does want to promote innovation without the cost of losing control. So it doesn't mean they don't want to promote innovation, but having control is more important to her.

Now, she said that the Republicans are taking a deeply anti-innovative stance. Okay, that's a bit too far. I can't defend that. A deeply anti-innovative stance. This administration, like I'm not an expert in administrations, but this administration is probably the most anti-innovation administration I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen any administration that in their right mind

is doing what they're doing to innovation. And she's talking about an anti-CBDC bill being deeply anti-innovation stance. I don't know. I'm lost for words. I'm lost for words. All I'm saying is there is an election in the United States in 2024. If the United States vote in the same administration as they voted this time, then I'm just going to say that they deserve whatever they get

in the coming four years. It's simple. The problem is we might also deserve what we got the previous four years. So people can't really win by choosing from the last eight years, not taking a political stance, just saying the worst case scenario for the United States is no new option at all for people to vote on. But hey, that's neither here nor there, I guess. I think anything is better than what you got now.

Sorry, than what you got now. I think this is the worst case scenario. I think. So if I just jump in for one second, can I just jump in for one second just on how, because we're talking about what actually happened yesterday. This and, you know, Scott got it right. This just came out of committee.

It's the Republican controlled House, which is only controlled by a couple of votes. So they have right. This just came out of committee. It's the Republican-controlled House, which is only controlled by a couple of votes. So they have the committee. It came out of committee. It got blasted by the other side. But if it did even get through the House, which it's probably not going to get through the House before the election, there's just no way with everything else that's going on. The counterpart in the Senate is Sherrod Brown, the Democrat of Ohio, who's already said he's shooting this down. And he's backed by the crypto gang of everyone who hates crypto. You know, so from the perspective of does this have any chance to be a living, breathing law? The

answer is just no, as it stands right now. So now so you know outside of blasting what people are doing this is an absolute nothing burger at the moment i mean we also have to say about warren's crypto money laundering bill that's getting more people signed on to it i mean that you know you got two sides just talking past each other i i don't i don't really i i don't think that has a chance in hell of you know becoming law either so you. So, you know, at the end of the day, go ahead. Flex your Elizabeth Warren has never passed. I think she's had one bill in like 500 or something attempted that's passed. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but these are all this is just the way that they play their politics and they present their opinions and make news without ever getting anything done. But it is at least encouraging that these are getting through committee,

a number of these bills, because if we do see regime change at some point, that could be a catalyst. But none of this is happening before an election, period. No, not even a chance. Guys, I want to ask you a question about the Mt. Gox news that I read earlier as well, the delay in the repayment as well. The markets are just ignoring any piece of good news that we see. That the dumbest news in the world i've been hearing it since literally 2016

the minute i got into crypto how the mount gox repayment was going to crash the bitcoin market and here we are in 2023 and nothing's ever happened i would even take that a step further any telegraphed huge supply hitting the market i I'm not saying that there aren't black swans, but any telegraphed where you knew it was coming and people predicted it hitting the market and actually affecting the market. The Silk Road Bitcoin, for example. Never. Bullish unlocks.

That's the joke. Let me give a shout out quickly, Scott, before I ask you another question on that. We've got Dopp on stage as well, our partners. Big fan of these guys and Scott Ryan. We've spoken about about them a lot we're going to speak to about them and later on but in brief you know that allow you to pretty much control your data you know ryan was talking earlier about owning your your social platforms and not being that that's you know being able to get cancelled by youtube and meta and all the others well in this case we're talking about

owning your own data and privacy on the blockchain, which is one of the bigger problems. The transparency of the blockchain is its strength and a weakness. Well, DOP allows you, so DOP is Data Ownership Protocol, that allow you to select what you want to share and what matters to you. So you don't want your hairdresser to know that you went to a strip club the day before. So that's what DOP allows you to do. We'll be talking to them later on today. But they're on stage. You can see the D.O.P. logo on stage.

Highly recommend you check them out. And if you've been on the show before, I'm sure you've heard us chat to their team earlier. Scott, on the question of the supply, I know there's supply hitting on the market. So you think the whole, what, you think it's all been priced in? That's why you don't think, because if there's not much liquidity in the market. We've been talking about it for seven years. It never happens. Yeah, but you mean it's all been priced in? That's why you don't think, because if there's not much liquidity in the markets. You've been literally talking about it for seven years.

It never happens. Yeah, but you mean it won't happen or what? No, it'll eventually happen. It'll happen slowly and never in the way that people can see it. So you're saying it's been priced in? Liquid data must earn fees. Once you distribute

the coins, Liquidator does not earn fees anymore. Simple as that. Right. You guys... Go ahead, Thomas. Mario, thanks for having me up. I was just going to try

to get some color on the release. There has been an email out to creditors, which is kind of weird, because they usually send an email contemporaneously with posting it to the Mt. Gox website. But the news is real, or seems real, because it's on the right website and it looks very official, like all the other updates. But to be fair, there's a few silver linings. One, it says anybody that's already completed all their distribution information,

distributions will start towards the end of the year, which again is vague, but fine. Also also it's actually potentially silver lining is the fact that they're going to distribute the money over the course of a year it seems like where they're setting a deadline to have received it if you've done your stuff because there are a lot of little edge case issues when you're talking about a lot of distributions and wires to go out not that excuses the absolute ridiculously slow processing by the Japanese trustee. And then lastly, you know,

within that 140,000 Bitcoin, there is a number of estates within the estate. So two of them, most notably is probably Bitcoin builder and which isn't technically an estate, but these guys allowed you early in the Mt. Cox freeze, and uh which isn't technically an estate but these guys allowed you early in the mount cox freeze but before it filed for insolvency in japan to trade your account balances so that's

going to get a big chunk of the coins and um there's another one called uh bitcoinica for any ogs on the call which is basically the first cfd or levered way to play, you know, invest in or short Bitcoin. So there's a lot of, there are two big claims there that won't necessarily come online until those estates themselves are administered. And then the fact that Mt. Gox is going to be basically distributed out, it looks like now over a course of a whole year, should actually, you know, speaking to some of the other points, I know soften the blow of a lot of crypto coming online or a lot of Bitcoin coming online.

So basically call me in a year and we can have a conversation again and then talk about how this is going to be next year. Maybe. No, I mean, look, I mean, if you read the press release carefully, the first line says they're going to back it up a year or the second first paragraph says

they're going to back it up a year. And then first paragraph says they're going to back it up a year and then the paragraph after that says anybody that's completed all their paperwork we're going to basically start doing stuff towards year end um so it's the silver lining is is that that quote so they're basically backing up the deadline but they're going to start distributing at year end guys i want to i want to read one more one more piece of news here it's not breaking news but it's just an interesting discussion a report came out by matrixport um and right after that we'll have a chat to data ownership protocol to dop um but this one goes to ryan and and scott and mike i know what your answer will be but we'll go to you as well um but their report says that they see

bitcoin hitting 37 000 this year so the two points is that the final quarter of the year is historically Bitcoin's strongest in terms of performance, with an average return of more than 35% over the last nine years, and especially in October, where October Bitcoin returns positively. Exactly. How do you know this shit? Do you memorize this stuff? I talked to Mooch about it this morning um i thought kind of the title yeah i mean what's mooch mooch is very optimistic what's mooch's position okay so first of all he told me this this was uh on youtube this morning he was like i'm just going to share this because it's coming

out in the sec he was the first and only investor in the BlackRock Bitcoin trust. He put $10 million into it alongside BlackRock, not the ETF, but the trust that the predecessor to the ETF. So he believes that they're going to get approved by first quarter of next year at the very latest and potentially the end here. And it kind of has, you know, some inside baseball, obviously, on that. And so he does believe that it's very possible that we would see a big move in this last quarter. As you said, 35% on average over nine years, and then 20%, seven out of nine years, up on average in October.

The question then is, are those two Octobers where it didn't go up, are they the ones where we were in this part of the cycle? The answer is pretty much yes. So, you know, I think we would need a news catalyst to his point, which is what I was saying, to get that sort of fourth quarter here. Otherwise, it's just sort of that third, you know, year in the four-year cycle, and maybe we chop sideways.

But I don't think $37,000 is crazy, especially if we keep continuing to see the macro sort of kick down the road. I have to chime in on this one. You also say he definitely wants to do the macro sort of kick down the road. I have to chime in on this one. You also say he definitely wants to do the Shark Tank show, by the way. I just want to have to chime in on this one. I need to point out something. I need to talk to you about it. Can you hear me?

I guess good. Yeah, we can hear you. Go ahead. Yeah, just some of the facts of that statistic. The biggest month ever for Bitcoin was November 2013. It went up 451%. That's double like the next two biggest months ever. That distorts all the facts. Typically, so just have to be very careful with those statistics.

So that's going back 13 years. I have this, it's on the Bloomberg term, it's called our SIG function. If I go back just five years, November has been the worst month. It goes down 7%. October, typically good. It goes up 16 but september's almost always been down it's down eight percent on average last year was a good one so you got to be very careful particularly with an asset it's only been around for 14 years and that's the key thing that a lot of people need to really bring into their views is this is a we're talking about a baby but mike doesn't doesn't ask has been around for 14 years does that mean historical data does not matter at all or matters less yeah you have to just be very careful and circumspect when you point out statistics like that and that's what i just did i pointed out that big year one year

2000 and that one month 2013 when it was just a puppy dog going up a lot made sense now it's not like you know you do a seasonal on sp500 gold or something. It almost always shows September's a bad month. And certainly for agriculture because of harvest. But that's why you have to be very careful. And that's one thing I want to point out, as we pointed out earlier. You have to be very careful when people use statistics to help promote their own narrative. When logical and macro might be more difficult. Here's the difference.

Bitcoin's never faced the fed aggressively tightening like this most most traders haven't seen this this is a new world and it's uh you know it's dave said earlier you have to just remember that uh this is the facts have changed free money is not free anymore it's very you know you can get riskless returns are very good. Sorry, I just sneezed. Ryan, any quick thoughts on this before we kick off the discussion with the data ownership protocol? No, I think let's go straight into Dopp. Guys, how are you? Dopp guys.

I'm doing very good. How are you doing? Good to have you guys. There's a terrible sound from your speaker. Very bad. Yeah, it should be better. It should be better in like two minutes. You can kick it off, guys. Let me fix my mic.

Scott, do you want to kick it off or run? Yeah, I'll jump in. I've obviously been speaking to Dopp guys for quite a while. I think they've built an amazing protocol. In fact, when I heard about it, I kind of thought it's too good to be true. I'm a big believer in privacy,

but I just always thought that privacy is a very difficult thing to tackle. I would say it's more data ownership than privacy. I think it's an important differentiation. Just my two cents.

I thought I'd jump in. Go for it. Jump in, jump in, because I think you're passionate about this. Yeah, I just think that the guys, or maybe you tell us instead of me doing it for you. You saw me jump in and say, is data ownership, not privacy? Can you explain more on this particular point? Sure thing. And again, super happy to be here. So the idea of privacy, this is our phase one of the project. So we now created this encrypted layer on top of Ethereum that allows us to transact privately on top of Ethereum. And that's great. That's privacy. But that's not what we are aiming for. That's not what we are building.

We are working right now on data ownership. It means that you don't just choose if your transaction is private or your assets are private. You can choose who you share your data with and what you're exactly sharing. So I will explain. Let's say now if someone is taking your address, your wallet address, and he's looking for it on Etherscan, he can basically see everything. You have no control. You have no control. You have no control. But in the future, when you will put it on Dopscan, when you will look for it on Dopscan, you will see like a social media profile with the NFTs that you choose to share, with the So you can choose to share that you have 5 Ethereum and above. And you can choose to hide

the fact that you have Doge because I don't know, it's your choice. So we are not about giving you privacy, we are about to give you we are all about giving to our users control. Control on their data. And that's completely different.

We are not looking to hide our users we just want to give them this tools so they can choose what they share with whom they share and when they share it can you give us a few use cases where data ownership makes sense you kind of hinted at two give us like three four like just for the users for people listening say all right how does that make sense to me where can i apply it so first of all i i can't even think about one person that won't jump on a data ownership protocol immediately when it's released and last month we sponsored binance dominican, Binance event, Binance campus in Dominican Republic. And I gave a masterclass about DLP to the biggest KOLs, the biggest influencers of Latin America.

And one of them, a very, very nice guy, very nice person, Manu, his name is Manu, he's pretty big KOL, he came to me and he told me, he told me, listen, buddy, this DOP, it's brilliant. And I asked him why, like, I'm very interested to hear his thoughts. And he told me that he bought a token last month, and the token went really good. And his community was very excited about this token and he felt that if he will sell this token his community will judge will judge him so he didn't sell it and he lost one hundred thousand dollars just because just because he was afraid that the community will judge him for selling this token so So, and on top of that, he told me that he's hiring a bodyguard because people are following him,

following his wallet. And since he has a lot of money and a lot of assets in his wallet, he's getting a lot of threats. And you know, privacy and over privacy is pretty dangerous, but over transparency, from our point of view, it's even more dangerous.

So, you know, these KO Wells, these private investors, they can definitely use DOP to protect themselves from these kind of issues. On top of that, investors, let's say you are a VC. I don't know. You're investing in projects. You don't want every project that you're investing in to know all your investments history. Exchanges, you know, a lot of people are following after exchanges pools. And it's creating sometimes FOMO in the markets and it's creating some misunderstandings in the market. So exchanges can use it. Even traders, everyone, NFT collectors, you know, people can see that you have this

beautiful NFT and they can come for you because they know if you have this NFT, you probably have a lot of money. So everyone needs this certain level of data ownership. And just imagine to yourself, if you will ask yourself, if you will use your credit card, ever again, if the minute you will pay with your credit card, everyone will know your balance and payments history.

It doesn't make sense. Fair. That's actually pretty cool. And then you said when we launch, you said every person will be jumping into DOP when you launch. When are you planning to launch? So we're planning to launch... Maybe tell us, what's the business model like? I'm actually curious. So the business model is pretty interesting.

So we can see a lot of protocols that are doing really good, but they're not really correlated with their token. For example, you know, Ripple. So Ripple, the protocol is doing really good. A lot of banks are using it. But there is no correlation between the success of the protocol to the success of the token. So when we thought about the DOP token, we said, okay, we want to maximize the correlation between the success of the protocol to the success of the token.

So whenever you are transacting assets on DOP, you need to pay with DOP tokens. So if you encrypted 10 Ethereum and you want to send it to me, you need to pay about $3 in DOP token. These DOP tokens are being immediately burned. On top of that, when you are encrypting your assets, they are immediately being soft staked, like 3% a year, rewards a year. So we are buying back DOP tokens with these rewards and burning

the token. So what we're actually doing, we are creating a lot of demand. We are creating liquidity. And on top of that, we are creating scarcity. So we are giving a lot of positive effects to the token with this model we really want the to reflect the success of the the protocol to the success of the token why i'm actually curious but why would you need a token like would would it allow like would the business model make more sense when there's a token um yeah couldn't it function without the token So the vision is to become completely decentralized. So the token is not going to be only a utility token.

It's going to be a governance token. But the idea is that if you don't have a DOP token and you're trying to just transact, let's say, this Ethereum from the example, if you don't own DOP token, the protocol automatically will take the fee by this DOP token and burn it. So we are not really making things complicated. You know, it's just like BNB.

If you have BNB, you can get this, you can pay your fees with your BNB. But if you don't have BNB, you still can pay your fees with your BNB but if you don't have BNB you still can pay your fees with the original asset look you guys have been here for a few times now um and you know we've spoken very highly of you and i know more that works for you guys as well um but like i'm trying to find i'm trying to find ways to poke holes in what you're doing because you're just doing so many things right. An obvious one that I could

think of is DOP seems to be a perfect use case for criminals. Now, I know it can be said about a lot of technologies, but if we saw with Mixers, for example, we saw regulators crack down. Are you worried about any regulatory crackdown when you bring transparency

to a decentralized ecosystem? No, crackdown when you bring transparency to a decentralized ecosystem so no sorry when you bring not transparency when you breed when you bring privacy and data ownership to a decentralized transparent system so I definitely agree with you there are a lot of bad fellas in our ecosystem and a lot of people that would love to use these kind of tools for criminal activity. So what we're going to do to prevent these kind of activities is, number one, we're going to implement zero-knowledge KYC. So by doing zero-knowledge KYC, we can make sure that we know

who you're not and I will explain so you do the KYC process and the protocol is creating a lot of proofs like Mario is above 18 years old he's not American, he's not part of this criminal database it's creating a lot of proofs about who you're not. So this is a very sophisticated way. Without storing, sorry to interrupt, without storing who you actually are. Without storing who you are.

And on top of this, you can actually decide that you want to delete these proofs. Even the proofs you can delete afterwards. Like if you decide you don't want to interact these proofs even the proofs you can delete afterwards like if you decide you don't want to interact where is it stored it's all stored on the blockchain but it and and and the the decision of deleting it it can be can be uh uh happen and can be decided only by the user that created these proofs so we we can't control these proofs. That's pretty cool. That's actually really cool. So essentially what you do is your KYC is like,

it's not who you are, it's who you're not. And make sure you're not the things that you're not meant to be. And then this is all stored on the blockchain with your private key having the only ability to remove it if you want to remove it. Exactly. And remember, you are just removing proofs.

Even these proofs are not really sensitive information it's just a proof that i am not above i am not under age i am not american it's not like a super sensitive information that's pretty cool yeah before you go to number two like especially with number one you you've kind of told regulators like hey we know you have these concerns but we already addressed them so you're trying to play you're trying to bring solutions to the ecosystem but you're also trying to play by their rules so you avoid the you know the headaches we are always looking to get middleweight solutions we don't believe in extremes we don't believe that you know okay so and a completely k complete kyc aggressive kyc Okay, so a complete KYC, aggressive KYC is one side of the extreme.

And the other side of the extreme is no KYC. So we are always looking to find the middle way solutions that will be effective for us and for the protocol success. So that's the number one. Number two, we are going to have a committee. The DAO will vote and will nominate a committee that will be responsible for blacklisting. And the reason we have this kind of committee is because even though we really believe and trust in these tools,

they may be offline tomorrow. You know, let's say, for example, Binance, they have Chainalysis. So Chainalysis can block blacklisted addresses from interacting with Binance. So what happens if Chainalysis tomorrow is offline? We still need human beings to adjust and to fix it in case these kind of tools are offline.

I'll move on to another question that I have, guys. You were talking earlier about the influencer that you spoke with in Latin America. So other than that example, who would you say are your three top audiences for Dopp? Okay, so number one, the private investor, because we are really interested in bringing, I'm sorry, safety to the ecosystem.

And we don't want people, the normal people that just want to hold their assets to be under attacks or threats. So this is our number one. And I want to agree with that. Like we, I think me and Scott were talking about this last time, is that we have in RAND as well, we have this issue all the time. Initially, I didn't care. I had one wallet for everything in the early days or maybe a couple of wallets for most things.

And then I found out the hard way that when the time is right, people could use that against you and track every single transaction you transaction you've done they can know who your projects you're working with everything and they want to try to hurt you they could reach out to those projects so they could try to use something against you um so i learned the hard way the importance of privacy are very creative people are very creative when they want to to your money. They are very creative. Exactly. What's the second one? So the second one, I would say VCs. I would say venture capitals, people, entities that are investing and still want to protect their investments history. So this is very, very common that VCs are all the time

having problems when they want to sell their tokens, when they want to use their tokens, when they want to move them. Every time they move their tokens, they're getting a lot of, you know, million messages. Hey, why did you move your tokens

from here to there? We hear it from a lot. We hear it from a lot of vendors you know, million messages. Hey, why did you move your tokens from here to there? We hear it from a lot. We hear it from a lot of vendors. Exactly. You know, we could be moving our tokens for auditing purposes, whatever reason. And then if our tokens move, essentially the whole community goes crazy. Like, hey, this big whale is moving

tokens. What's going on? Are they preparing to sell? And then you have to sit there explaining yourself. And it't all be private transactions. Even if a VC decides to sell, this is a private decision. VC is meant to sell to get a return for investors as long as the tokens are unlocked. But obviously, if everyone's watching your wallet, it's just really not the best thing

to be dealing with. So, yes, a good second. What would be the third one? The third one is definitely KOLs because Because you know, it's in the this is actually people that are not private, you know, they are, they have their communities, and they are creating content, and everyone is following them. And the and the minute you get this kind of exposure, just for creating content, you're under risk. And I think that this kind of threats on people who just create content

and just communicate with their communities because their holdings, because their activities, financial activities, it's something that is just wrong. So we believe that DOP is the perfect solution for these, you know, public figures. Same. Well, I've got two more questions. Sorry, go ahead, Mario. I was just going to say, I would think that also,

you know, it would be just every person in any country that wants to transact privately. That's always what interested me the most about it. If you're in China or any of these countries and you just don't want to share every single one of your transactions and all the data, it seems like every person who's using Tether, who's trying to get their hands on dollars, who's transacting directly even in small amounts,

would just want to use this as default. Yeah, we believe that people today just using their crypto for speculations because it's too risky to use them for actual payments. It's just too risky. So you're just investing in assets and you are doing your transactions with people you trust and that's it and we believe that if people have this you know certain level of privacy certain level of privacy we can bring crypto to a new whole era era of really you know people will will use their

crypto for payments for actual payments real life payments guys i've got two last questions one of them is a is a selfless question the other one's selfish question i'll ask the self selfless one first is uh you guys are doing all this in the midst of a bear market where most people don't care because you know people are people people are emotional um the market is you know we're looking at next year to be much better than this year. This is what many of us are predicting. What's your plan for next year? So our plan for next year is building. And when I'm talking about building, I'm talking about building the technology and building trust. So by building technology, we just finished our phase one,

creating the engine for DLP, the engine that allowing us to transact privately on top of Ethereum or any other EVM. So this one is done and we can, of course, give you guys to try it and check it out. It's working by 100%. The second phase that we believe that we will finish

by the end of Q1 is the flexible privacy, which means that you can choose what you share and with who. And of course, it will be presented on our Explorer, Dope Scan. The next phase will be presented on our Explorer, Dopscan. The next phase will be probably finished by the end of Q2 2024, which is creating SDK, allowing to developers to create applications that will communicate with external applications on top of Ethereum.

So you can lend your assets to Aave, to Compound, to buy tokens from Uniswap, and all of these activities you can do from DOP, so you enjoy the benefits of DOP, which is pretty cool. And the last phase that we believe that we will finalize it by the end of 2024 is creating internal ecosystems. So we will have our own NFT marketplaces and ICO platforms and DEXs inside DOP. So we don't need to use any external liquidity. Everything will be inside DOP. So that's the building technology. And the building trust is mainly sponsoring events, spreading the word, communicating progress. So we want people to know who is DOP, who is the team, any progress that we are having with our technology to share it with everyone, hackathons.

So yeah, that's the main two things. And I want to ask you a selfish question. You ready? I'm ready. So we have an incubator. We work with really cool projects, obviously being very, very selective right now. Now, I've never done this on the show here,

and I've even messaged Rand and Scott. I'm like, guys, don't be a pain in the ass after this. But I genuinely love what you guys are doing. Would you jump on a call to have us? I would love to contribute in any way possible, work with you guys, and we don't take any fee out. We just take tokens. It's our vote of confidence that we believe in you.

It's my selfish way of saying you guys are pretty cool, and I really want to work with you guys. And, again, I've known Mo for a while. a while you have to give an answer now just say yeah i'll jump on a call with you mario i'm honored to jump on a call with you potentially work with you thank you for believing in us that'll be a perfect answer if it's gonna make me happy today i'm honored to be here mario i don't want i don't want scott i don't want i don't want Scott tokens. I want dop tokens, bro. So let's make it happen. Cool.

All right, guys. I appreciate you being here. Scott, Ryan, anything to say, guys? No, I think it's great. I think that the perfect data talk anti-CBDC is the perfect data talk, data ownership, and privacy. So I'm just really happy those things aligned. By the way, Scott, thanks again for

doing the FOMC space yesterday, man. You fucking killed it. Epic space. Yeah, well, I'm in better shape today. I'm recovering fast, but man, I was in bad shape yesterday. Yeah, no, I was recovering from food poisoning, but I was not near as bad as you. I just had a flight just after the space. I feel

so bad for not doing it i could have done it um yeah danish was in the space i would have given him shit he could have done it as well yeah he could have done it yeah he's not in this he was listening to us he was in the space he just jumped off um all right cool anyway guys we'll see you again tomorrow same time appreciate you all uh and uh dob thanks a lot for for being on the show again and it's always a pleasure to have you guys and thank you for having me and no joke i'll actually hit you up would love to work with you guys bye guys