The Wolf Of All Streets - No Crypto in the Debate - Still A Key Election Issue? | Crypto Town Hall

Starting point is 00:00:00 Taylor, I'm really glad that you're here with us today, buddy. Thank you. On a day when we have, obviously, crypto in the forefront, we're talking about politics, you're in DC at the Digital Chamber working on policy. And so it's been like 12 hours, I'm already tired, exhausted of talking about the debate and the political situation. So now I can just have you do it for me but how like you know listen first uh obviously we have the title here no crypto in the debate still a key election issue you know i think it was an echo chamber narrative that with only 90 minutes in a political debate in june that we

Starting point is 00:00:43 were going to quote quote unquote, definitely hear about Bitcoin, right? Because you're talking about a CNN moderated debate where they mute one person while the other one's talking. And yeah, I would imagine they weren't going to ask that kind of question, right? But I still don't think that takes much away from how compelling the case has become that it could be a real election issue over the past like couple months. But what were the knee jerk reactions, I guess, you know, at the digital

Starting point is 00:01:10 chamber with anyone you might be speaking to about how this debate went? Yeah, absolutely. So I think there was, you know, a hope going into it that Trump might mention it strategically to maybe throw Biden off his game. You know, he certainly knows a lot more about it than the current president. So I think, you know, there was hope there. But we, you know, we heard about issues that were tangentially related to crypto. We heard about inflation, pocketbook issues. So I think, you know, you could in a sense tie it around. But no, I mean, the political momentum around crypto is still moving with or without the debate. This is a snapshot in time where they need to give their best

Starting point is 00:01:50 performance. One candidate certainly didn't perform as well as the other. I'll let people fill in the blanks there. But no, I think the political momentum around crypto is moving. We saw Matt Gaetz introduce a bill that would allow Bitcoin to be used to pay some federal taxes. So the momentum is still there. We're still seeing a lot of it on the ground. And the former president throwing his support behind our industry has allowed a lot of Republicans in Congress to begin to put out policy positions on these issues and really develop their stances

Starting point is 00:02:23 on crypto. So we're still seeing a lot of momentum. And I think the debate is just one really small snapshot in time. Will any of that momentum translate to meaningful policy in, let's say, short term, six months? Six months, I think, you know, it's too tight. We're down to, you know, just under eight weeks with the legislative calendar. They're taking time off in August and October to, you know, go campaign and go do state issues. So we're really down to just a few more weeks left. There's a defense appropriations bill that they're trying to push out today. There's some major things that they're trying to get out before the election season.

Starting point is 00:03:05 So I think it's probably going to be too close. But that doesn't mean that we're not going to get a lot of things behind the scenes done and prepped so that day one, next Congress, we're ready to sprint, not just walk like we did this Congress. I kind of pointed out multiple times yesterday that, A, I think it's very clear that the crypto industry is on the offensive and doesn't really fear the regulatory regime. We saw Coinbase come after the SEC and FDIC yesterday. I quipped multiple times that Gary Gensler was having one of the worst days of his life. We saw, obviously, Coinbase sue the SEC, FDIC, which I think is the bigger story, the FDIC part.

Starting point is 00:03:46 We saw Solana ETF filed, whether that would be approved or not, I guess is up for major debate. Then we saw the SEC lose in the Supreme Court. And then you have to assume that Gensler's job is somewhat tied to the victor of the presidency. And we saw those hopes. You know, I think nobody would debate the fact when you look at betting markets or the interpretation of the debate last night, which direction a lot of people that might have been in the middle are leaning. So it seems like there's a really bad time to be Gary Gensler. Yeah, and he's costing Biden, you know, potentially an election for a lot of folks who are innovation focused, who are, you know, entering the crypto markets

Starting point is 00:04:29 for the first time and now realizing just how big of a threat that, you know, we've all seen Gary Gensler be. You know, folks are now just being introduced to him and just seeing how bad he is. And that's not just in crypto. That's in, you know, climate change policies. That's, you know, a whole litany of issues that now he is threatening President Biden's electability. And that is something that President Biden should take seriously. Makes sense. Focusing on the crypto side and not going deeply into a political spaces here or I guess

Starting point is 00:05:01 talking about the nuance of the debate. I mean, anyone else? Alex, you immediately texted me after the debate last night. Right. I mean, as you've had some like 12, 14 hours to sit on this, do you have any major opinion at the moment on how this may impact crypto? I mean, I think Taylor, you're right. I think there was a date, 24 hours of expectation we might hear about it. Now we didn't. Now we go back to reality, which is still pretty much tailwinds. But go ahead, Alex.

Starting point is 00:05:27 Yeah, I was gonna say, so I think I've always, I've been, I think, a little less, or a little more skeptical than a lot of folks that crypto is ever going to be a, you know, what I'd call a but for issue in this election, something where like, that would actually swing most people's votes. think the the vast vast majority of people who really care about crypto to the point that it would alter their vote already knew who they were going to vote for in this election and i think if anything last night's debate just reinforces that like the there's a you know when you're talking about something as stark as what we saw last night and that's hitting people's feelings that hard if anything it decreases the importance of a particular issue

Starting point is 00:06:10 like crypto in the election so i don't think that's not to say a bad thing it's not a good thing i just think that we're you know i think trump we have much bigger issues yeah exactly we have much bigger fucking issues so like trump's gonna keep hitting it because i think you know one he's seen it's a great way to raise fundraising dollars he's gotten a lot of support uh from the crypto industry for it given how big a need there is for the regulatory clarity so a lot of people have been looking for it um but yeah the i don't think it's going to become a bigger issue i think if, it'll become a less salient issue over the course of the election. Um,

Starting point is 00:06:48 if somehow there is like a candidate swap, which again, I love joking about and talking about, but I think I've seen stuff that shows like the reality of what it would actually take to swap a candidate is far greater, uh, than I think most people realize. And just,

Starting point is 00:07:04 just like the reality of like, they have a huge war chest and that war chest just can't be transferred to a new candidate just because they want to, beyond the fact that there isn't actually a cigar filled room where people just get to pick who the candidate is. So if somehow you did end up with a new candidate,

Starting point is 00:07:21 it might pick back up some salience, depending on where that person fell on it. But again, I think in that case, there's going to be such bigger issues and questions swirling around that Crypto is just not that high on the list. I just did my Friday show with Nathaniel Whittemore and LW. And we unpack every Friday, we do the Friday five, and we kind of unpack the biggest stories of the week. We try to pick five stories as base of the week, which was challenging, obviously. This week was so much going on even in just the last 24 hours. But what he said to me right before we went on the show was kind of a quip, but it was telling. He said, listen, I had my guy in Australia, my researcher who's ahead of me, making sure I have everything when I wake up. Like he spent the night researching Gavin Newsom's comments and policies and ideas surrounding crypto.

Starting point is 00:08:13 Right. So there are people now who are actively going to see what the other theoretical potential candidates may think about this industry because they've taken, just assume that Biden won't be the candidate. Dave, you've been saying Biden's not going to be the candidate every opportunity for months now, Weisberger. So I'm glad you appeared. That seems more likely, right? I mean, look, legally, the only way that the Democrats can get a switch is if they can persuade Joe in between ice cream cones to decide to retire, or they force an issue with the 25th Amendment.

Starting point is 00:08:59 That's literally the only two ways. Now, if they do the 25th Amendment, that puts Kamala as president. And then the question is, what do they do? Do they have to nominate a VP and, you know, yada, yada, go to the convention. It could be very, it's all very messy. That said, I mean, despite the denialism that we've seen this morning, you know, there's just no way. Now, but I do want to go back to something that was just said a few seconds ago, which was that crypto is not a big issue and didn't feature in the debate. I actually disagree.

Starting point is 00:09:34 I mean, crypto didn't feature in the debate, obviously. I'm not arguing that. you can look down at his notes, you can see it. More than once, he started highlighting the important thing that he did that Joe Biden, of course, never mentioned was regulation. That is going to be a big issue because regardless of who he puts in as VP, I mean, Trump's proposals to eliminate the DOE and lots of other departments on regulation matters. And crypto regulation is relevant as an example of the stupidity of the regulatory overreach of Biden. And they're going to use that and use that as a jackhammer. It won't only be in crypto, of course, but it's clearly one. So because that does matter. And if you want to get economic growth, that's going to be a big deal. And it's very clear that his

Starting point is 00:10:19 camp is prepping for that. Remember, this is June. Normally, the dates are starting in September. And so we've got a long way to go. So just to jump in real quick, by the way, speaking of regulation, the court just dropped Lauper and Chevron deference has been overruled on a 6-3 majority. So speaking of the administrative state, we're about to see a massive, massive change there could you could you elaborate carlos because i saw that i saw yesterday's opinion and that one is on this on the sec not being able to use their own courts that's massive as well yeah so so yesterday's opinion was on the sec courts uh and me get having the right to a jury trial if they accuse you of

Starting point is 00:11:01 fraud even if it's civil uh. Chevron deference is basically that a court, if the law on it isn't totally clear, the court should just defer to what an agency interpretation of it is, which primarily concerns civil, not criminal. And so the holding is that the Administrative Procedure Act requires courts to exercise their independent judgment in deciding whether an agency has acted within its statutory authority and courts may not defer to an agency interpretation of the law simply because the statute is ambiguous. And so this decision. So yeah, Carlo can probably speak a lot more than I can. Yeah, I just think it's for the listeners, because I'm not clear on it either. Are you saying that, you know, West Virginia versus EPA was major questions doctrine? You're saying that this particular case that just dropped basically said, because the SEC,

Starting point is 00:11:50 for people who don't know this, is 100% civil, not criminal. And you're saying that the SEC, their judgment, their interpretation of the law is not relevant, that the court needs to decide the interpretation of the law used based on what legislators are saying? I mean, what is actually, you know, what is the example? What do you think the precedent is? Yeah, so my understanding is it's all about when it's ambiguous. There's still like a little bit of area where executive agencies, including the SEC, get some discretion.

Starting point is 00:12:19 Certainly they have things like prosecutorial and air quotes, where they choose to focus their time and attention. But that basically Congress needs to be more specific in the laws that they're passing, because if they leave it ambiguous and open, it's now up to the court's discretion, not the administration's. So again, I think, Carlo, you probably can speak better than I do. Yeah, I literally just had somebody DM me and say, I don't know, SCOTUS just overruled Chevron, exclamation point. Why isn't Coinbase going bananas? SEC has to go to Congress. They've been neutered. That was a take from someone randomly in my DMs. And I mean, it's not just the SEC.

Starting point is 00:12:54 Like a huge, huge percentage of the administrative state over the last several decades has been based on the fact that, you know, Congress doesn't want to legislate specifics because it's harder work to do that. And they, you know, also requires them going on the record about things they believe in not. So they've just been passing vague laws and expecting the executive branch to fill it in for the last 40 years. And so this just completely upends the ability for them to do that. I think it's another bad break for the SEC, and it reinforces that parties should have the right to air their grievances in court. And I think this is a monumental step forward. Zooming out, Scott, I think the debate and the conversation that was had last night about how bad inflation is and how big

Starting point is 00:13:46 our deficits are without any question or mention about crypto is fascinating to me and just further reinforces that it's still not a kitchen table issue. However, one question I would have for Dave, we talked about the two ways that Biden could step away, either he voluntarily steps down or some kind of grand 25th Amendment lever is pulled, which is really a tough lift. Isn't there still the possibility that in August at the Democratic National Convention, there could essentially be a shift in support here? I mean, I'm looking at the pundits on the left, and they seem to all be in agreement that this is not going to go well for Biden. Yeah, no, sadly, no. They would have to, the DNC would literally have to rewrite the rules,

Starting point is 00:14:40 because since they ran a primary, they ran primaries, the delegates in writing were to support Biden's decision. So unless Biden's decision is to free them, they have no choice. Now, obviously, they could change it, right? The Constitution doesn't really talk about parties, but considering that they had two issues they're running on, one of them is abortion and the other is democracy. Even the people in CNN know that you can't run on democracy if what you're doing is you're saying people voted and you're going to ignore their votes and their character isn't doing so voluntarily. So it really is a binary.

Starting point is 00:15:31 If we're losing your mic, I don't know if you can improve your connection, but I couldn't hear you there at the end and you're kind of breaking up. Sorry, Scott. You're good. I mean, Bruce, dare I even ask you what you thought about the big left? Why would changing the rules stop the dams they cheat and lie and change the rules all the time they did it with bernie sanders they did it with hillary clinton they did it with this entire election which any thinking person should know was a complete and total fraud they had members of our own intelligence community and employees of the federal government lie and commit treason on this country to get this dementia patient elected. The thought that they wouldn't cheat again is just absurd. They cheated here in New Hampshire. We've had a primary

Starting point is 00:16:17 for a hundred years. We've had the system where you go in and the Democrats choose the candidate and the Democrat voters get to decide. This year, they said, no, no, no, no, no, Democrat voters, you don't get to decide. We're going to decide. And so they kicked RFK out, wouldn't even let him. You know, the Kennedys, can you imagine being in a country where the Kennedys, the most famous political family in our entire country, is not even allowed. They're cheaters, they're liars, and anybody who doesn't see that by now is just being disingenuous. They have lied and lied and lied again for four years now. They've said that this guy is fine and he's fit as a fiddle and he's

Starting point is 00:16:57 sharp and it's only about his age. It's not his competency. It's all lies. Every single thing about it is lies. The idea that the election was fair is a lie. Everything is a lie. It's a complete and total lie. And we can't, I mean, even the media, even his own stenographers are giving up on this lie now. The emperor has no clothes. People are coming forward and saying what we all see with our own eyes and what anybody with their eyes open has seen for the last three and a half years. But now the difference is that the ruse just can't be kept up anymore. So they have no ability to do it. So they have to admit what we're seeing with our own eyes. And only the dumbest, only the dumbest among us aren't seeing that these people are liars. The media, the establishment, the

Starting point is 00:17:39 Democrats, the entire thing, they lied. They lied for four years about this guy. They lie about everything. And they're going to continue to lie. So I just want to defend myself. I agree with Bruce. Literally every word you said. I still fucked up. Okay. Well, sorry, guys.

Starting point is 00:17:56 Yeah. I got a little better there. You sounded like you're underwater. Try again. Yeah. I just went outside. Hopefully I get a better reception. All I was going to say is people are that dumb because the media has been gatekeeping it and an issue like changing the

Starting point is 00:18:11 rules is something that will get media attention and so yeah but bruce is right i mean they don't care i mean bill hackman had a great post this morning on the failure of the media amazing yeah we could share it dave we, Dave. We can't hear you. Can't hear you, man. Sorry. Go ahead, Jed. Hey, guys. I want to talk about the Chevron doctrine just for a second. So that being overturned by the Supreme Court just now is a very big big deal um it basically reverses 40 years of of legal precedent

Starting point is 00:18:49 um and the long story short like basically how it works is on like these these unelected uh agencies that you know the epa sec um pretty much every agency out there, when the laws aren't crystal clear, they have the ability to basically interpret the laws and regulations as they want. So this basically returns the clarity of enforcing various regulations, various laws back to the courts. So it really, really, really disempowers many, many agencies. So this is quite big and quite big for crypto as well. Sorry to interrupt because I want to add to what you're saying and get your thoughts. But to my understanding, I'm trying to do research as we're speaking, which is always challenging when I'm hosting.

Starting point is 00:19:46 But this effectively means that, like, let's talk about the case of the SEC and crypto more specifically, that the courts won't specifically defer to the SEC's interpretation even of the Howey test or anything else similar. So the SEC can't say that according to our interpretation of the Howey test, this is now a security that no longer applies. So if that's the case, as I'm sort of reading this, chat GPT relentlessly and such, this is bigger than even your, it's huge. It really is. And I think it's going to, yeah, I mean, this is bigger than even your, it's huge. It really is. And I think it's going to, yeah, I mean, this is the Supreme Court. It's a final word.

Starting point is 00:20:31 It can't be challenged any further. So it's basically going to be a new way for our agencies to operate. And the downstream effects are actually quite hard to figure out because it is just so wide reaching. So I think definitely everybody on the call today should spend some time learning about the Chevron doctrine and kind of what just happened. And obviously the ruling yesterday with disempowering the SEC and having their fines and their lawsuits adjudicated within their own court system is also disempowering to them. So this is very, very, very pro our industry. And then, yeah, and then I'll just really quickly talk about last night's debate. You know, I've actually been calling this for quite some time. I'm not sure what the positive outcome really was for Trump to do this debate if Biden did well, he'd solidify himself as potentially being able to

Starting point is 00:21:48 win the race. If Biden did very poorly, then there'd be this swap. I'm quite confident a swap is coming. It might be Kamala. It might be Gavin Newsom. It might even be Michelle Obama. I think Michelle Obama actually probably has, if she were, if she were running, she has the name, the name power to, to really, I think to win this thing. So, but it'd be, it's very, very hard for them to like step over Kamala and all this kind of stuff. So I'm surprised. I kind of, I'm kind of wish that he waited. But, you know, it, but it is what it is. But we'll see what happens down the road. I want to add to what Jed said, if I could, Scott.

Starting point is 00:22:33 Yeah, I think we lost Scott. So yeah, I have to agree with you. The downstream effects of this decision will be interesting to look at. I think, from my perspective, the SEC has really overplayed their hand here, devoting a great deal of their limited resources to crypto enforcement and using its administrative powers in this ambiguity and in the power vacuum that exists right now. What this may do is completely shift the paradigm now because they don't have the staff and the resources to actually

Starting point is 00:23:05 take all these cases to court. So from a strategic standpoint, they're at a disadvantage here because if this Supreme Court ruling kind of reshapes how litigants can respond to administrative action and get their day in court, then the SEC is going to be really hamstringed here because I don't think they have the staff and the bandwidth to fight all these wars on all these fronts with crypto anymore. So long term, I think this is a net positive for crypto.

The Wolf Of All Streets - No Crypto in the Debate - Still A Key Election Issue? | Crypto Town Hall

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