The Wolf Of All Streets - PAY ATTENTION: Bitcoin SET To DUMP On December 19th?

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

On December 19th, global markets are on edge as geopolitical tensions and monetary risks converge. President Trump’s naval blockade of Venezuela has intensified fears of a broader conflict, while Japan’s upcoming Bank of Japan meeting could unleash a liquidity shock that ripples through global assets, from oil to crypto. Analysts warn that a combination of war risk and tightening liquidity could ignite extreme volatility across markets. With traders bracing for impact, December 19th is shaping up to be a potential flashpoint — a day that could redefine both financial stability and global peace.

We're seeing stark warnings that Bitcoin is potentially set to dump on December 19th. Many people wondering why that would be the case. It's because of the meeting of the Bank of Japan alongside the fact that the United States is likely to go to war with Venezuela. There's so many things to discuss today, so hard to unpack how they could potentially affect Bitcoin and crypto markets. We're going to discuss all of it today with my good friend Bill Barheight, CEO of Abra. Let's go. Good morning. Everybody, happy Wednesday to those who celebrate Wednesdays. I hope you're all having a good one. We have a lot of news and stories to discuss. Luckily, I have Bill here to do it with me. How are you? Good morning, my friend. Good to see you.

You've had a big week across the world and back announcement after announcement after announcement. It's been a fun ride. A little tired, but it's all good. Yeah, a little tired is, I think, how everybody feels about the crypto market right now. Yes. It feels like we're in one of those definitively time-based capitulation phases where we get news and nothing happens. Good news, down. Bad news, down. Other news sideways. I mean, maybe we should start there. I mean, what do you make of the current price, actually?

You know, we've got Bitcoin sitting here or let's see, 87, I was going to guess, but 87,000, 635, pretty uninspired, down on the year. I think that's where we were 30 days ago, right? So, okay, so I think two things are happening, right? The first is, you know, people, you know, we had the bump, which was the legal derisking post-election, right? And so that gave us a November 24 boost, which got us up, I don't know what, 50%, 60%, whatever it was. And, you know, that was the, that it was not a liquidity boost. That was the legal de-risking, Bitcoin's not going to die, Trump's here to save the day, we rode that. So basically a repricing.

It was a re-pricing. It just said that this entire market is worth X more based on it. And we're still, right. And we are now, we have now reclaimed that, that level. And I, and I think that what's happening is, is that the markets assumed that there would be significant liquidity injections into the global economy, however you want to measure. Global M2, U.S. M2, the Chinese version, whatever. And, and, you know, people mispriced that.

I think tariffs plus, you know, delays on, on interest rate. lowering, which I think many people, including myself, expected more cuts this year. You know, Bank of Japan starting to raise rates, which I'm sure we'll get into the upcoming meeting. I think that's been largely priced in. But by and large, the liquidity hasn't come that we expected. Some people think it's delayed and it is coming. I don't have a crystal ball.

That feels right. But I feel like it's been kind of sideways, you know, in a. in a log scale, which is the right way to look at, you know, crypto, it's been sideways since that election, you know, de-risking and waiting for that, for that liquidity. And I think the March to 125 was an assumption of that combined with a whole bunch of institutional news, ETFs, you know, multiple debts and things like that. But, you know, that's played itself out and the liquidity didn't show up. And so now the question is, is it going to show up? I'm betting that it will. Institutional money is betting that it will. Retail is betting that it won't.

Now, it looks like we have this kind of, you know, widening rift between retail gloom and doom and institutional, yeah, like it's game on in 26, right? So it's a tough one. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. And it seems that we now have consensus that Bitcoin trades is a macro asset largely based on liquidity. And there's very few people who think that it has much to do with Bitcoin anymore, or certainly much to do with what's happening in the crypto market. And you can see evidence for that everywhere, right? Because all of this good news, all of this adoption, the Genius Act, all of these things, none of those have largely affected price, maybe in a vacuum for a brief period of time, for a 10% move or something. But now we all have to be macroeconomist

to understand what's going to happen. Right. Yeah. We've always had these fun microshocks, post-FTX and other things that, you know, give us a boost up or boost down or boost up, whatever, whatever the right word is. Yeah, it's fun. But, but, right, that's within this kind of broader universe of clearly Bitcoin is a macro asset. And crypto is a levered kind of bet on that, but, but, you know,

overlaid with what's the usage look like, what are the trends. And so, again, my personal. feeling is, is the liquidity is coming in 26. The debt refinancing didn't happen the way everybody expected it to happen in Q3 going into Q4 this year. I think they're pushing their luck to say, okay, we've got to get these rates down. That was my thesis in Q1, was that they would do anything that they could to get rates down to refinance the debt. And it didn't happen. Right. And so, you know, the question is, is what are they going to do to get those rates down? this year, well, it appears they're going to start buying bonds, which is, you know, the buyer of

last resort, which is ourselves, right? And, you know, we're the only country in the world that can really get away with this at this scale and not have, you know, interest rates in the 20% range, which, you know, could be where we're headed. I don't know. But it was clearly where we were headed in the 70s, right? So, so we'll see. But they are going to, they're going to accelerate the bond buying with the understanding that if Bank of Japan raises rates, rates and that trade is broken, our other buyers of last resort are gone, right? China's done. Table lines.

Well, I mean, okay, fine. There's only so many Nigerians that want to hold $100 in tether. So, you know, China's done. It's all converting to gold. Japan is a net seller. Germany's a net seller. And to your point, tether's a net buyer. Thank you.

But, you know, there's only so much tether can do. Yeah. Yeah, it's just such an interesting place to be in. because your premise that the Fed would have to lower rates to avoid a refinancing of the debt at a higher rate made a lot of sense, given it's not the Fed mandate, but we know that they care, right? And then instead, what we got is run it hot and the debt doesn't matter. They really went. So basically your premise and that of many, and I shared that view for a long time, was that they would at least have a monocum of responsibility. Like they would, that 1% of the

government would say maybe this debt's a problem. They went 100, you know, the, you never go full that movie. Our word, you're not allowed to say it. They went full. My premise was a little different, right? So yes, I believe the Fed would lower rates sooner. I didn't necessarily believe that would lower the cost of borrowing for Treasury. Because as we saw, the last two times the Fed lowered rates before this time, you know, treasuries dumped because, and rates spiked because they believed either, you know, inflation was coming back or new debt sales were going to be very difficult for some combination of the two. I think it was actually more of the latter. And so you still have to sell the debt on the open market. And the open market is a supply and demand phenomenon.

It's not a manipulated market like interbank lending is, which is what Fed rates are. So you still have to be able to sell your debt. And if nobody wants it anymore and you're the buyer of last resort, right? That will eventually get rates down, but you have to actually execute on those buys. And we didn't. Now we are. Right. So starting, I think, today or in the next couple of days, or it's already started, but basically now, we are going to start buying our debt again, call it quantitative easing, yield curve control, whatever you like, with the stated goal of pumping money into the system, getting rates down, which creates a circular effect of jobs and hiring, which is, you know, their, they're the most important mandate right now since they've

clearly given up on inflation. I think, actually, that's a big, a little facetious. If stated inflation was at 4%, they wouldn't be doing this. They would let employment go a little bit higher. But since it's manageable, they are going to pump money into the system. There's only one way that it's to pump money in the system. It's just going to be a matter of where it comes from, but I do want to jump into, we have this title, Bitcoin sets it up on December 19th, maybe, but December 19th, the date everyone is ignoring that could crash all caps, your crypto portfolio. I think it's right to have our eyes on what the Bank of Japan is likely to do. First of all, I don't think we have confirmation that they're going to continue

to tighten, but I think that that's the assumption that that's likely to happen. Now, you can go back to a bit of evidence here. March 24, they hiked rates. Remember, Japan did nothing like this for decades, right? So March 24, rate hike, Bitcoin dropped 23%. July 24, rate hike, Bitcoin dropped 26%. January 25 rate hike, Bitcoin dropped 31%. There is some logic here. The Japan yen carry trade, obviously unwinding for years. People basically borrowed yen for free and used that money to buy things that had a higher yield, risk assets, crypto, I guess, certainly stocks and other things. that's unwound or is unwinding. To me, like, when I think about this and I read about it, it seems like, A, everybody knows

this is coming. Yeah. B, the Japan-Gyri trade should have unwound. Like, who is still in that trade, I guess, is the question that gives us fear about this? And is this just so telegraphed that it shouldn't be an issue anymore? Yeah. I think on institutional side, you're right. I think the fear is on the retail side.

and it feels priced in, meaning if, like I said, Bitcoin has been sideways since the dump from, you know, the last 60 days, meaning it's at the same price today as I believe it was on November 18th or so. So the question is, is there another leg downcoming? I mean, the short term, if you're a pure TA guy, I'm not. I use it as a tool, but if you're a pure TA guy, the short term charts are clearly bearish. I mean, there's just, you know, there's not even a debate.

right so so the question is is what what matters right now t a expectations actual liquidity or is it some combination of the three um or is it geopolitical shocks like you know Venezuela i think liquidity wins in in in this race and i think that u.s bond buying trumps hawkishness from japan in the next 90 days now does that liquidity is drying up but so basically that they're doing the reverse of what we're talking about, but they're a drop in the bucket if we go the way that we're predicted. Right. So that means we could have, we could see a, you know, capitulation move to 70. I mean, okay, fine. It could have a wick, you know, I mean, a wick to 70 is not like, you know, a disaster, but it could happen. And then, you know,

a rapid spike up from there. I don't think that's going to happen, but it could. That's fine. you know, we, we, as a major lender in the crypto space, you know, we look at the LTVs of the loans and what's going to happen. And most of our loans, you know, are priced in a range where, you know, nobody's going to get liquidated until they're, and when I say liquidated, I don't mean all their Bitcoin gets sold. I mean a little bit to put them back in compliance. Yeah. Most of them are going to basically see partial liquidations in the 50s and 60s. So, so I think from that, that perspective, like, and that's if they don't add more. That's if they don't have More. Right. Just rationally, if you're the kind of person who's taking a loan on this and you see a liquidation of 50 and 60 and you're someone who's taking a loan because you love Bitcoin so much and don't want to sell it, you're buying the shit out of this at 60.

Right. Right. And I'm only bringing it up. It's information. And so that information tells me like we're in a in a reasonably stable space. I think the churn of whales who were selling, I think that's played itself out. Like I said, we've been sideways. think I saw a post yesterday, which was really good. It basically referred to sharks, which is the people just below whales in terms of holding, which is the largest, you know, important group of crypto holders, in my opinion. They're accumulating right now significantly. Okay. In the November, basically in the last 35 days, they're accumulating very significantly. That's the group that's been absorbing the turn as far as I can tell. That's extremely compelling to me because I don't see that group as kind of being active day traders. I see. see them basically as mid to longer term hoddlers who holders you know we don't have a last resort in in crypto even sailor can't absorb that much but but i i think that there's like to your point earlier as a macro asset there's rapidly growing consensus that you want to own some and it's funny um i i announced last week that you know we're likely or strongly considering go public which i'm sure you're going to ask me about anyway but we come back to that but but but but but But the reason I'm mentioning it now is I talk to a lot of investors, and none of them are

afraid of this. What they're saying is, oh, man, I wish you were public now buying this. Oh, yeah. And so. It was a period, I think, where nobody was going public. Like, we had the first rush, but everybody's waiting for the second one. You guys cracked in. Yeah.

So smart institutional money is looking at this going, man, I wish I had a truck to back into this right now. And I've had this conversation many times. But I've had the opposite conversation with people who are shorter term and many people who I go to for advice on how they're seeing the market very short term. People that you and I know, I'm not great at the 30 day prediction. I have some friends who are like amazing at the 10 to 45 day period. I just don't think that way. I'm not wired that way.

I'm wired to look at a log chart, understand the trend, and then go about. my day, you know. And so I, I'm interested in news. I'm interested in politics. I go to dinners here in Silicon Valley all the time as a libertarian and I have debates every time and it's fun. But it doesn't change anything. It's just, it's not my, it's not, it's not changing my bets. It's not changing my investments. It's, you know, whereas I have friends who look at that stuff and interpret it and say, okay, for the next two weeks, I'm doing this. I'm going covered calls over here. I'm putting puts over here. And I'm just my, you know. And, and, and, yeah. That's a job. It's a job. Right. Well, I.

I mean, and for some of them, it's fun, and it's 15% of their, they're whatever. But for some, yeah, it's a full-time job. And I don't want that job. And we're not in the business of enabling that job, right? So, you know, we're long-term wealth managers. And I think you want a CEO who looks at trends and thinks that way himself or herself, as opposed to saying, okay, guys, let's get on a call and say, we're going to reallocate today. We're going to come back in next week.

And I'm going to call you on Sunday and did that, da, da, and I have the more. clients and and and so i feel like the only move right now if you are fortunate enough to have dry powder because i have a cognizant of the fact that most people just don't have money right now yeah uh is to just be slowly buying all this yeah yeah even if we go out three eight even if we went to a three year bear trend which in no part of my brain thinks as possible even for the four year cycle truthers right i just don't i don't see it personally yeah just keep some money on the side and just keep buying because I don't believe 126 was the forever top in Bitcoin. Yeah.

Everything to me feels cheap. I'll say it for the umpteenth time for, you know, the 1% of your listeners that haven't seen me on here before, which is, you know, Bitcoin is my personal beta. Certain L1s are my venture capital style bets. Those are five to seven year bets for me. If I make 10x next year, I'm definitely moving a lot of profits into Bitcoin. But again, I see those as super high risk could go to zero venture bets, but I don't think they are, which is why I made them. I have no interest in throwing my money away.

But, you know, Bitcoin remains my personal beta. It's a combination of midterm liquidity play plus long-term adoption. I think the narrative of integration with AI, right, for the Solana Sui, I just, you know, came back from Breakpoint, which was super interesting. besides our own announcements. It was really amazing. It's more like a festival at a conference. But, you know, all of them, Aptos, Sui, Salana,

they're all kind of got a cadre of people adopting the crypto AI integration narrative, which is early, but hasn't gotten any steam yet, but I think is going to go ballistic in the next six months to five years. I don't know when. And I care because I'm older,

but I don't care in the sense of, in the macro perspective, am I wrong? I could always be wrong. But, but, you know, that chip is sale for me personally. I've made my bets. So, so I could rotate, but I couldn't even imagine what I would rotate into at this point. That's the problem. It's like, what do you sell in your Bitcoin to buy?

But that's a lot, apparently, by the way. I mean, HUD eight has been all over my feed the last, you know, since before I went to bed a few hours. I don't even have it pulled up because those, it's like every day we get a big tech company doing a deal with a mining company. that's pivoting to AI so yeah but that does seem to be the the narrative today but maybe just for today right as you said like you that's a great short-term thing if you timed it or we're ahead of that announcement but who knows where that'll be in a

week right yeah so listen I want to talk we're generally about the idea of you going public which you have not announced but softly teased in your speech and I was gonna ask you about it because I heard the speech and I think that's really exciting, but in the context of what we kind of just discussed with all coins or the market in general. So I had a thesis kind of earlier in the year that I think has been proven pretty accurate that alt season basically happened in crypto-adjacent equities, right? All the money that maybe we would have seen in all coins trickled down into bullish and E. Toro and all the big circle and all the big ICOs we saw. There was huge hype there. And then into the mining space,

And because it's institutional money, it's not really finding its way into tokens as much. Because you can't go from a Bitcoin ETF, obviously, like, down to coin 74. That was just kind of a premise for why maybe we haven't seen as much liquidity in all coins. Yeah. I have a different thing. I think that continues in another cycle of public offerings, which you will be a part of. You have a different thesis, which is it's a season, but it's a different season. And so I think if you look at AI stocks, okay, so what drive?

what has driven, because we don't have enough data points yet, but for the couple of the four-year cycles, which we obviously aren't going to have this time, that drove Ethereum and certain all prices and, you know, maybe even meme coins this cycle, but less so. Let's focus on the last couple of Ethereum cycles, NFTs. It's always the increase in prices of the major crypto assets, whether it's Bitcoin or Ethereum that spills over. It's like one big glass spilling over into other little glasses. We really didn't have that. We got it on Bitcoin, though.

We had it on Bitcoin, but that was in public, it didn't fall down. That was my point. A lot of that was in public market held securities. That's right. Right. Exactly. So I think the spillover was not, I don't think there was a lot of selling of Bitcoin ETFs into those other crypto-adjacent stocks.

I think it was general QQQ or. oriented NASDAQ 100 money, massive amounts of profits because of the AI trade that was being partially allocated into higher risk alpha. And, you know, that has nothing to do with a replacement for all season as I see it. I think the alt season didn't happen. And keep in mind, I think we're at 25, maybe 20% of Bitcoin that we consider not lost is insecurities. Right. So the vast majority of Bitcoin is not held in publicly traded securities. Okay. So that is not in a position to keep all season from happening.

It's if 80%. So it's that lack of massive liquidity pump, which was driven in the last three, four year cycles by QE. And so this is the first time post-having that we didn't have QE. And we talked about this. We said, we said, what's going to happen? We don't have, we don't know, right? And we thought it was coming faster, as I said earlier, but it didn't, whatever reason.

Tariffs, obviously, you know, have been an interesting phenomenon. But I do think it's coming. So I think you had to your, this due point about the other, you know, crypto-adjacent securities, E-Toro being a great example, which is a great company, a spillover, the larger cup being, you know, the NASDAQ 100 stocks and spilling over into adjacent stocks, especially data center oriented stuff slash miners and you know early phase some of the stats but that played itself out quickly some of the shells that were holding them but but you know like HUD ate up 20 plus percent before we went on this morning so so I think that's a parallel

universe to what I expect to have happened in in you know in in the L1s in the next year my guess is is that we're going to see a massive run as QE and QC yield, YCC take hold, you know, we'll see. But that's my, that's my feeling, you know. Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all. It wasn't necessarily that the money, yeah, I shouldn't have really said that the money would have ended up in all coins. I just think the money that is moving around in crypto is in a different and much larger pool now, right? Yeah, that's 100% true. I mean, that's good. That's good. I mean, look, I don't, I don't care about the securitization of Bitcoin as a, as an exciting investment opportunity.

Um, I think people, yeah, if I can buy Bitcoin, right. So, so, but, but, you know, there's a lot of people that, they're just not going to do that if they have the option of buying it in a securities wrapper. And I think that's fine. Right. So, so that's interesting from that perspective, just like, you know, if I want to buy oil, I certainly don't want barrels of oil in my backyard. Yeah. Right. So, so I don't want to buy oil. But if I did, I'm certainly going to buy an ETF tracking stock, uh, as opposed. to barrels of oil, right? And I don't think Bitcoin is the same, but the analogy still holds. Okay, so there's so many other things I still want to talk about. I hope you have some time. Okay, good. Because we have this, right, FDIC, just in FDIC to unveil plan on how banks may

apply to issue stable coins. So we're getting some clarity from bank regulators on not only how banks can interact with stable coins, but obviously we know they're going to launch them, right? So you've got, I've kind of seen it as two camps. There's the ones who either just partner with an existing stable coin or some crypto-native platform that understands this, plugs into an API or something and, you know, gets their crypto services or they're going to build it themselves. I think this is more about what you can do to build them yourself. We have along these lines, because I view stable coins and the Genius Act is sort of the first

iteration of a bigger narrative around tokenization. The DCCC, which was crazy last week, basically saying we're going to token us. everything. We're moving to this. They don't want to go full like Kodak Blockbuster and they're going to adopt this technology. Choosing Canton Network, which is so out of left field, the people are absolutely losing their minds. They can't believe it. That's a who you don't play. Yeah, but here we go. Because this is important. This is where it matters because you're deep in this, right? We're excited to announce to Aberify the World, token platform for offering synthetic versions of real world assets. Our first product is USDAF, a yield-bearing dollar base on the Salon

the network. I think U.S.D. stable going back by Salana and Salana Defi Previdiv. So you obviously are putting your money where your mouth is on this trend that we're very much hearing about on a daily basis. Yeah. So I believe that there's clearly an RWA play, which we're in the first inning of. I think I am not bullish on, you know, the current first generation of tokenization of existing securities. In the sense, of like, okay, is it exciting? Would I want to build a business on that? Personally, no. I don't mind. I think it's great that there are other companies that want to do that. I think the depository trust company has no choice but to do what they're doing because, look, I think they're going to die

anyway. Right. I think in 15 years, the SEC as we know it, the CFTC as we know it, most international securities regulators as we know it, most clearing houses, we know it are going to be gone. They're doing this next year. So they realize, they realize that. Or they say that it'll be by the end of 26. But within five years, they add no, that entire cadre of organizations adds no more value, none. So, so what we need in the next generation is securities that trade the same way meme coins trade. Now, I made this point to several, I was at a dinner with a very well-known congressman. I won't pick on him.

I really like the guy. We're just on opposite, not opposite size because I'm a libertarian. But I explained to him, like he was, you know, complaining about the meme coin thing with Trump and Melania. And I said, look, I don't think they should have done it. But now every announcement at Solana right now feels like it has something to do with scalable transactions, whether it's real world assets or visa like stable coin settlements. And the best proof we've ever had that that's going to work was the Trump coin, the Trump coin by far. it was the most scalable test in crypto history right it traded it did visa like numbers for many days okay so so the point is you can now do native equity issuance on a salana or one of their

competitors and scale to visa like numbers which is which means everyone by the way in just simple human terms and and we can do that now right and so that's interesting to me what What I want to facilitate, right, and we actually don't own AbraFi, we partner and advise, we actually are giving it away to the public. I'll explain the details in a second. But what I want to do is I want to basically level the playing field the way Binance and OKX and the non-US exchanges have leveled the playing field for crypto investing, you know, maybe through regulatory arbitrage in some ways, but regardless of how they've done it,

they have done it, meaning 24-7, instant settlement. 24-7 access to withdraw your assets. You don't retain title in their instantiations because you're on their balance sheet, but basically you've created an always-on system for trading and manipulating value, right? We need that in securities if you're going to level that playing field. And I think that's what's coming next. what we're seeing now with tokenization in the first step not what we're doing but what you're seeing from others is in a way station where you're taking existing securities and you're tokenizing existing securities that has some value but most of those announcements keep you in a walled garden what is the value of tokenization if you're still closed as a market more than you're open if you can't borrow an open marketplaces against those assets using defy if you know you can't move to another exchange that is always you know always

open and so i think we're going to leapfrog that to services that actually create you know instant on securities from the ground up that are native crypto assets native digital assets whatever the right word is i prefer crypto but whatever native crypto for these securities that you can trade on a finance trade on an okayx trade on a coin base in the short term there are going to be legal issues with that, meaning are you acting as a broker dealer? Are you acting as an exchange? In 10 years, it's not going to matter. It's going to be a level of global playing field. People will go to Dubai to issue their securities. They'll go to Abu Dhabi or Singapore. And what you need is courts and police with guns, because in the physical world, you need to enforce the contracts.

everything else you can encapsulate all of the equivalence of an s4 an s1 and s8 right in the smart contract now we're not doing that today right because the laws make it too complicated for most people to do that so what people like um mike cagney who i respect a lot right so we compete a little bit um you know they're they're basically doing the interim approach he's a master of understanding the nuances of what it means to basically take an s one wrapper and tokenize it or take an s1 and and tokenize it in a wrapper right and and i think that's that's very astute for him to do and there's there's money to be made there in the short term i think it all goes away in five to five to seven years um i could be aggressive on the timing but it doesn't

really matter so so it has to go away because those markets are still going to trade you know less hours than they're they're not going to trade right so anyway one guy now we have NASDAQ going out 24-7 or 23-7 or something. So, I mean, it's just a perfect example of what you're saying. Right. And everything is going the way of the crypto example. Like, we showed the world what can happen. Whether we'll be able to capture that value, I have no idea, right?

But everybody's going to be forced to be 24-7, 365 and entirely global and to offer something better than we are or comparable. Or you just can't. So, but so you have a, I mean, we'll call it a, it's a yield-berry. I don't, do you call it a stable coin? Yeah, so it's, so the legal, in legal death parlance, it's not. Right. But from a retail perspective, I'll use the same terminology like an Athena would use or others that, that are doing similar stuff.

It's, it's a staple coin in the sense of that it's, it's basically pegged using large L1 assets, like, you know, Athena is pegged using Ethereum. Our USDAF token is pegged using Solana. And then you use a bunch of defy primitives to maintain the peg and generate eel. Whether it's basis trades or liquidity pools or... D-type learners being stating and such for people... Exactly. And then we, you know, the Averified group already tweeted about some of the things they're doing. There's going to be...

I've seen it. It's really good. There's a white paper. You go to Averify.org. They've already published a bunch of information about how all this works. So USDAF is going to be a Solana-based stable coin that maintains its peg. using Solana, okay? Highly scalable. They want to integrate into every wallet,

D-Fi platform, Neo-Bank, in the marketplace. S-U-S-D-A-F will be the staked version, which will generate, you know, based on the results I've seen in the test lab so far, anywhere from 8 to 15%. Now, we, AbreA, Inc., my company, is very good at generating yield.

We've been doing it for years using D-Fi, So we advise AbraFi and how to do this. And we also are going to be using USDAF within our separately managed accounts in ABRA. So our clients who deposit dollars are automatically going to have access to the yield and staked version of USDAF. Now, we can do that as a U.S. company because we're an SEC registered investment advisor. Most U.S. companies can't do that because they consider these coin securities, right? And I'm not giving you the legal definition. I'm just giving you very simple terms.

And so most of the effort for ABRify, pretty much all of their effort will be outside the U.S. We're in a unique position as an SEC registered investment advisor that we can do the risk disclosures and you can go to the SEC website and see our form ADV. That as an RIA, we can offer that product, right, which is super cool. And so that's the first product that AbraFi is launching. I've seen the discussions on what's coming next. It's super cool. I think they have dibs on everything from how to basically create individual tokens instead of full-on prediction markets to native securities,

which we talked about a few minutes ago, as opposed to just tokenized securities, and looking at different Oracle services to aggregate, you know, real world data into bets. I think these prediction markets are extremely interesting, both as an internet user and as a, you know, crypto guy. But what I want to see is I want to see individual tokens that any exchange can list, excuse me, that give me access to those bets, right?

And I think the Abrafai team is in a very unique position to enable that. So doing the stable coin first was important because it's like an away station for all the other tokens that they want to enable over time, right? And it basically gives us access to this yield, which I think in the Solana ecosystem just didn't have anything native like that. And so when I spoke to the Solana team, they were like, yeah, we've we've scratched our heads as to why no one did this. And we were really happy that the Avrify team did this, which is why I agreed to spend 40 hours on a plane. to present this so so it was it was uh really well received really yeah so that aligns with the idea that i think people kind of viewed stable coins in a vacuum at the beginning and now are starting to understand that's actually just the first best potentially example of everything

that's coming yeah the organization of everything i mean it's really crazy when you hear paul atkins saying within two years like the united states financial system will be on blockchain rails and then once again not to beat this dead horse but the dc which the famous is for greatest hits like T-plus-2 and T-plus-1 settlement, talking about instant settlement of everything by the end of 2026. Yeah, I left the CIA to work at Goldman as a kid, and we were talking about straight-through processing 30 years ago, and we still don't have it, and we're not going to have it based on the existing technology. I mean, I was Tipco's first customer. Vivek wrote a book on our deal called The Power of Now. Tipco was the company that created all the real-time

information that flows around when you see when you see your bid ask prices flashing on a screen that's a company like tipco pushing that information to your screen and that was always supposed to enable this straight through processing and it never happened and partially never happened because you know the powers that be are highly incentivized who and to that end who there was one of the the big traffic companies wrote a scathing rebuke of tokenization and all this because you know why right because our business is highly likely to die when this happens, we talked about DTC and I think other businesses are going to die when this happens as well. And it's a good thing. It's just, you know, you have to either evolve or

you're going to die. Yeah, so quickly, but before I let you go, the last thing I feel like you have to talk about now because we're all political homers. President Trump orders a complete blockade of all sanctioned oil takers going into and out of Venezuela. This is another one of those like wildly unfactual, bat-it, crazy, truth, social posts from him, which I find just incredibly entertaining, saying that somehow Venezuela stole our oil, I don't know. But either way, I think, yeah, we also apparently have done 19 trillion in tariff revenue or something, I think, was the number that he threw out. But, but either way, you know, we have him making a big announcement at 9 p.m. today. This seems to be angling towards a potential, quote-unquote, war. I don't know

before with Venezuela. Yeah. Looks like we're just going to take what we want for Venezuela. But like, is this on your radar at all for markets or is it just? It has to be. But, you know, he has been convinced by someone, right? I don't think it's something he would have himself just said, I need to focus on Venezuela. But he has been convinced by someone that regime change in Venezuela is desperately needed.

And it will basically help stabilize and help us basically reform, you know, all the regime change in Venezuela is desperately needed. you know, all of the kind of drug, and I'm using, I think, trying to put it from their perspective, not what I believe, but reform all of these drug-infested countries that are basically pushing their wares on the United States. Now, I don't think that's true, but I think that's what they believe. I don't think that Venezuela is ground zero for any of this. I think it's basically a deteriorating society because of poor social and economic policy. It used to be the wealthiest country in the region became one of the poorest. It's not, it's not, Haiti poor, but it's it's in that moving in that direction quickly. And given the amount of oil

they have, it doesn't make any sense until you look at their economic policies. So it doesn't really matter in terms of like, is it going to affect the rest of Latin America? I don't think so. Most of my Latin American friends that I talk to Mexicans and others want regime change in Venezuela. They do. They just don't want Trump to do what he's doing. And so, you know, is it going to move the markets in the short term, maybe it'll affect oil prices, which will have a trickle-down effect. But they're not, you know, they don't move the market in terms of oil as I understand. I'm not an expert in oil, but that's my understanding.

I'm more concerned political events over the past few years that have not really affected markets, so that's where I'm a little, yeah, I'm more concerned about his postings in general the last couple of weeks than I am about, I hate to say it, because people are going to die if we do this um but i am about specifically venezuela i mean you know i'm a libertarian but i love rob writer i mean that post was just that shit crazy and and and so that was very disappointing to me he's on a theater yeah i don't agree i never agree with rob right politics who gives me crap ron brine's probably he's one of the best movie makers in history and you know it it was just bizarre to make it about you as a president when his you know mentally ill

son is probably the reason that he died. It's bizarre. But it, but it's a trend is my point. And I don't like the trend. I like a lot of the policy wins of this past year, not even just crypto. Get back to that and cut off the nonsense. Somewhere at the beginning of the post, I criticized the monetary policy. You and I were talking about how they kind of just joked. And a couple of people in the comments were saying, is this a Democrat channel? And I kind of laughed. But, you know, if you say anything critical now, we're going to be pegged as a, you know, a left wing, a loony liberal channel for our takes. But I feel like people in crypto, we just call balls and strikes. That's the beauty. The beauty of being a bitconer was that you were supposed to be opting out of all of this. And I can

even say for me, when I found Bitcoin, it's actually what opened my eyes to all of the problems with money, which sent me down the rabbit hole of how insane government policy is when I was just sort of blindly following for most of my life. So I feel if you're a true Bitcoin or being critical of the government in general, regardless of who is leading it, is pretty much the default. Yeah. Not only, I would, I would go so far after what I've personally gone through, which I don't talk about much, the last three years, the attacks, the regulator attacks, you know, everything we had to deal with just to be alive and even have the discussion that we're going to go public, which is insane. There's zero chance I'm not going to speak my mind. Now, I realize I'm one person

and nobody cares. I care. And so if somebody asked me my opinion now, it is what it is. I'm going to give you my opinion. I don't think I would have reacted that way to a lot of these things six or seven years ago. And I think that we as people who see the future of the kind of post-for-turning economy in crypto, AI, maybe a little bit even more utopian terms, I think it's incumbent upon us to speak our mind and to call bullshit and call something bad shit crazy if we think it's bad shit crazy. I think this administration has done some really smart things. I think the Liptar crowd does not give them enough credit.

And I'm talking about the ultra, ultra, ultra, ultra left wing. I have a lot of, you know, middle of road friends who probably are left leaning, who gave the administration a lot of credit for closing the border, certain economic decisions. But then they see this nonsense with Venezuela, with Rob Reiner and these crazy posts, and they say, oh boy, here we go again. and nobody wants it. Definitely nobody really wanted the meme coins. Right, well, we knew that in January

before any of the policy decisions. I am concerned though, I am concerned that we could see a major pendulum swing in the midterms or after and that that will be used once again. I felt a year ago, I should say, that the anti-crypto army was dead, never to be resurrected, no hope.

It is not dead. And I feel like we're giving them a whole lot of fuel they even get a tiny sliver of power again there there's a you ever see the movie other people's money with danny davido when he gives his famous speech when he's talking to the lawyers about why they should kill all the lawyers and the commies are hiding you know in the bushes waiting waiting to come out like that's elizabeth warren right now she's like fuck i don't have to do anything just like trump keep talking right stop saying stupid shit let your policy stuff work get back to work you you've got a a very healthy majority in both popular and electoral college take advantage of that but but he just is

not capable he just has a mental block for people that have wronged him and and it's as somebody who's gone through hell as well i kind of get it but you know i mean it's not helping at some point vance who wants the job has to sit him down and say look dude knock it off oh yeah good luck with that yeah exactly but i'm just saying that went that went pretty good for pence Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, before we slide further down into a political cell and get somehow, like, blocked by the algorithm further or anything, I'm going to let you go. But, Bill, so keep us updated, obviously, on the Go public plans that are not public, as of yet, and obviously, on the evolution here of everything with Aberfine, because I think that now we're in a massive arms race of us versus the institutions and the banks, right? It's great that they're adopting our technology and they're going to be using it, but we still need them not to co-operative.

opt it and make sure that we don't have access and that it's not a profitable, investable asset class for us anymore because we're using DTCC coin instead of a crypto-native stable coin, right? Right. Yeah, there you go. Well, thanks for having me on. Everybody should please, you know, consider Abra.com if you need a place to manage crypto, take a loan, earn some yield.

I'm not only a customer. I'm not only the CEO. Yeah. Yeah, you were gold. But I, yes, I've utilized. It's incredible. That's right. Thank you. We love it. And yeah, happy holidays. Good to see you. And hopefully we'll come back on in January with some great news. Yeah, let's catch up next month

when Bitcoin's at $135,000. You heard it here first part of people. No crash on December 19th. What if we just go up? It'd be amazing. All right, everybody, be back tomorrow, obviously, at 9 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Thank you. Give Bill a follow and check out everything Abre has to offer. We'll see you soon. Bye. Everyone's looking for smarter ways to build their Bitcoin stack. Well, here's one most people overlook. You can earn Bitcoin every single time you spend without ever buying it directly. That's where today's video sponsored, Gemini, comes in.

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