The Wolf Of All Streets - Pay Attention! Is Bitcoin & Crypto’s Biggest Turning Point About To Happen? | Mark Yusko

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

Crypto is entering a major turning point as regulatory clarity begins to take shape in the U.S., with lawmakers advancing market structure discussions and a key hearing on tokenization happening today. At the same time, institutional demand is surging—Bitcoin ETFs just saw $2.5 billion in inflows this month, while major banks accelerate their push into stablecoins and tokenized assets. But beneath the surface, there are signs of tension, with Circle’s stock dropping on regulatory concerns even as Tether moves toward its first full audit. With clarity arriving and big money flooding in, the question is whether this marks the start of crypto’s next breakout—or a more volatile phase ahead.

It's time to start paying attention once again as the crypto regulatory and legislative environment starts to heat up. Are we actually going to see the Clarity Act? And today we have the House Financial Services Committee meeting on tokenization of assets. I think it's fair to say that the technology is being adopted, but you have to wonder if it's also being co-opted. I'm going to talk about that today with one of my favorite guests, Mark Yusko. Let's go. What is up, everybody? Good morning and welcome to the mountain region of Afghanistan, where we're doing our show live today.

I didn't know I'd have mountains behind me until it happened. They sometimes like to surprise me, but it's great. Feels cozy. Mark, how are you? Are you in the mountains? You know, I am not in the mountains, although I was supposed to be heading to the mountains on Saturday. But the worst.

snowpack in America ever. So it's all gone. And so we had to cancel. So we're just heading to San Francisco to hang out with my son and daughter-in-law, which would be fun. But no matter. To go skiing. Yeah, I've heard, I mean, we, yeah, winter skiing was, I mean,

Christmas skiing was ruined. It didn't happen. Spring break skiing was awful everywhere. It didn't happen. I think I believe from. But I love, I love the background. I love the new setup. It's amazing.

So really quickly, before we get into the news, I have some news, and I'm feeling pretty good about this new setup now because I'm launching a new show with Yahoo Finance. I don't know if you saw this. Bravo. Every day at noon, we're going to start in two or three weeks, hopefully. Every day at noon, the Daily Wolf, it's going to be a solo show. So like my Friday is where I just rant and rave about the top three stories of the day, totally off the cuff. Yahoo! Yahoo! Making a big push into crypto, they'll launch a Yahoo Hub. And this is going to be the flagship show of that new push. So really excited. People keep asking it has nothing to do with my current channels. It's additive, not subtractive.

So we're going to be doing everything you're doing. You know. The only person who loses in that tray, not that she loses, but is your better 90%? Right? Because that's less time for her. But no, I'm just kidding.

It is. But it's noon. That's the thing is we're just going to plow through it, you know, do the whole morning. And then by 1 p.m. We're in the mountains. There you go. In Kazakhstan.

Yeah. So listen, I want to talk about all things, kind of tokenization. Clarity Act right now. So this, you know, we have today the House Financial Services Committee will host a hearing on tokenization, the future of capital markets, yay. Right.

I think, and we have a lot of news that there's been a settlement on stable coin yield in the Clarity Act. A settlement means banks win, we get nothing. And it's like it's as big of gaslighting to me that this is a crypto bill as the inflation reduction act was gaslighting about. Well, but that's the thing, Scott. whatever the bill is called, it's the exact opposite. Whether it was the Genius Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, the Patriot Act, it's the exact

opposite. And this has nothing to do with clarity. This has everything to do with regulatory capture, opakness about my, I mean, and look, I shouldn't, I shouldn't like out her, so to speak. But, you know, Senator Lumas, I thought was on our team. And she actually acted like she was on our team for a very long time. And now suddenly she's this great supporter of this horrible bill, which means somebody got to her. Somebody, I mean, she tweeted a yield sign yesterday and people took it as, or like two days ago. And it was like, yay, yield. And then you see the news and it's like no yield. No. It's, look, it's, it's so crazy. But it's not unusual. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the way it always has been is incumbents use regulation that they pay for. I love the fact that

you know, in, in, you know, your mountainous background, they call bribes what they are, bribery, right? Corruption. In America, we call it lobbying and we celebrate lobbyists and we think it's great. No, it's it's bribery and corruption and it's no different than, you know, you've heard me tell the story, the red flag law. Everybody's like, what are you talking about? Well, you've all heard the sort of red flag, right? Red flags, every, you know, well, it got passed when the automobile came to New York City and the horse and buggy folks said, well, that's bad for us. So let's lobby. Let's pay the local administrators to pass a rule. It would say, if you had an automobile, you had to hire a human with a red flag to walk in front of you. Now, have you ever seen that? Like, no, I haven't. And so,

It eventually goes away. And then they fight you phase. We're still in it. We're probably going to be in it for at least a couple more years. And my last thing on this, the aphorism, is be careful what you ask for. You might get it. We all say we want regulatory clarity. Okay.

No, we don't want regulatory clarity. What we want is actual regulations that help technology adoption, not. Okay, regatory capture. Yeah, it blows my mind. And now I see the coping takes where they say, we just need to get this done now, and then we can change the bill later in our favor, as if they can't change the bill to make it worse.

Oh, and Scott, how many times we win in the future after it's passed, and it looks bad that we're going to get some sort of favorable change. By the way, the government's about to probably become a bit more blue. That is not the direct. that the crypto industry needs if they want more favorable legislation. And it's so interesting because I think there are a lot of smart people in our industry. I really do. I just don't understand why. And things like this, we just collectively get dumb. I mean, it's just dumb to think that either party is on our side.

They're not, right? They just want our votes. And all the things that were promised to us have not come to pass. You have an idea how much Bitcoin the United States government holds? Remember that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of it that was coming in a month.

We're going to figure it out. Oh, look. Well, the craziest one on that, to piss off the army, is the XRP nonsense, right? where XRP went big blue and their candidate didn't get elected. And they're just like, oh, okay. So shows up at Mar-a-Lago begging for some attention. And Trump's like, you know, you're dead to me. You gave money to her.

And he's like, well, I'll give more money to you. And he's like, oh, my friend. And now everywhere you look like XRP, well, you know, we're going to include that in the strategic stockp. No, that just means whatever you see. you're not going to sell, which is like 11 XRP. So I just, I struggle with why we think that we could achieve anything that we want when people like, you know, our buddy John Deaton gets obliterated by a woman who is the antithesis of all the people she supposedly represents. It just,

it's just, it's a corrupt system. And, and, you know, we have to. do we got to opt out is is what you got to do it yeah listen i'm of two minds of it because you can't get anything done unless you play the game so i certainly understand why crypto companies have come together created a lobby there was a time in the last administration when it felt like the industry might get crushed so they were basically yeah yeah yeah yeah crypto industry didn't have a huge lobby and was not particularly political until they were kind of backed into a corner um and i actually even understand why they sort of backed both sides to some degree because you want to make sure that you had skin in the game with the winner. Yep. And I guess you can totally expect that they knew

that whoever won they could just push harder to that side and do particularly well. But like, we don't even know how much XRP, Cardano, Ethereum, Salana or Bitcoin, the United States government even holds. We don't even know what that strategic stockpile is because we can't even get an audit on it. No. And we've been trying to audit Fort Knox since 1940 something. So why should this be any different. Yeah, the Clarity Act, man, you know, I was gaslighted into a slight excitement there for a long time. I thought that it would pass. I don't know if you probably didn't, but I had a conversation with Chris John Carlo recently, and he basically just pooed all over the Genius Act. Oh, no, no. He was ahead of the CFBC. We just basically gave a CBDC to private companies and to the

government. All of our fears about the CBDC, we doubled by not only giving the government full transparency into your transactions, but also private companies. And I'm not criticizing the companies. I'm just saying that's, you know. Scott, and only two private companies, both of which have to agree, literally make a deal with the devil, to only back their stable coins with U.S. treasuries. And, oh, by the way, one of them happens to be partially owned by the Secretary of Commerce, which also happens to have ties. with very, how should we say this? Shady banking institutions down in the Bahamas,

which is where FTX was. And so it all go and the worst part is, again, blue and red, there's no blue and red. There's only purple or colorless or whatever. It's just in and out. You're in power or you're out of power. And when you're out, you want to be in. When you're in, you want to stay in.

And so they'll do the same things. And they've all been doing the shady stuff in the Bahamas with Dell Tech for decades, probably centuries. And it's just wrong and it's bad. And now we have this technology. And people are saying, but use go. This technology was created by those bad people. It was created by, you know, government agencies. It's certainly possible, you know.

But the technology, like the internet, the internet was created by the intelligence agencies. Yes, it was. Department of Defense. Sure. But the internet today, yes, it's utilized as a surveillance tool and a monitoring tool. But there are good parts of the internet that they lost control of because of the way it works. And the same thing with Bitcoin. And anyway, I digress.

Well, speaking of those two stable coin issuers, we have some news on them. And this one, man, the Tether Truthers are in shambles. Tether signs big four firm to complete first full audit. I don't know where the tether isn't backed by anything people are right now, but I would imagine cowering in a corner wondering where their next engagement is going to be. Well, yes and no. I mean, yes, they are a little nervous. But remember how the big, it's big four now, because it used to be.

be big eight and then turns out a bunch of them were corrupt. Remember how it works, right? You can pay extra to have the numbers work your way, right? You can be Enron and you can have a big, you know, at the time, big six auditor. And you just pay three or four times more and you get the number. It's like the old joke about, you know, you're interviewing the accountant. The first guy comes in, what's two plus two? for all right, never mind. The second guy comes in, what's two plus two? Four, okay, you're out. What third guy comes in?

What's two plus two? What number do you want it to be? You are hired. And that's kind of what this is. Yeah, just because this is a big four firm doesn't mean they can't be bought and paid for. And people say, Mark, that's sland. So I wonder. Yeah, I wonder if this is like a historical audit or a current audit, because I don't think anybody has,

and I love tether, but I don't think anybody has any doubt that tether is currently fully back. Right. I think, but, you know, 10 years ago, what were they backed by? Yeah. I mean, you know, so. Look, Tether is an instrument of the government plan to maintain the petro dollar standard, right? I mean, we were on our way out. The dollar was sinking. And look, the Chinese, I think, are still going to win. The Chinese have now stated they want the rem and be not to be a world reserve currency, but to be the world reserve currency. Now they say, oh, but you can't do that because it's not convertible.

It's going to be converted. They bought all the gold. Now, Tether bought a bunch of gold too, which is logical because if you want to have, you know, a real currency, you have to back it by something and not have an empty Fort Knox. So I get why we went down in Giancarlo's thing about the Genius Act. it's all going toward a CBDC that ultimately, like I say, a private company would control so that you can still sanction. Like, what did tether do the other day, not the other day, the other week when there were some Iranian, Iranian before the conflict even started, there were some Iranian funds and they just walked in and seized them. that's the antithesis of everything we are fighting to build.

And it makes me sad that that's, again, be careful what you ask for, you might get it. That's what we got. I guess in my view, if we want a silver lining this thing, if the Clarity Act is such a train wreck and the Genius Act, potentially also was a train wreck, you have to imagine that EFI adoption is going to skyrocket when people realize it, because the yields still are out there in crypto. It's not going to happen on the centralized platform. It will skyrocket. The problem is still the on-ramp, off-ramp, you know, challenges and the, you know, you could say, I don't want to live under authoritarian rule. I don't want to be taxed, you know, unfairly. So I'm going to relocate. Okay, but then what happens? They still come after you unless you go to the certain jurisdiction where they have a you know and there's some payola but but everywhere you look there's this issue of hey if I if I

you put all my money in defy but I go to pay for something like a piece of property or you know a large purchase or even a small purchase I got to somehow get back to fee dollars and that and that and that and whether it's dollar of the yen the euro but still got to come back to fiat. And yes, I do believe in the future we will have a fiatless world, like the Obology kind of nation stateless world. I believe in it. But it's not tomorrow. That's from some dead hands, right? That's not like any of these entities, as we can see, that's even a whole other step. But nobody's giving up easily. We're seeing even what it just takes to banks to get on board with legislation. By the way, I'm old enough to remember when senators

debated legislation and not industries. It's incredible to me right now that we see my minds. They're like, banking industry does not agree with legislation. I'm like, crypto industry or that Brian Armstrong, that big, bald, beautiful, badass can like literally block a bill. Like, since when does Coinbase vote? I'm with you, baby. And since when, and since when when you threatened to vote, even though you can't vote, when you threaten, you get labeled by mainstream media Wall Street Journal as, you know, public enemy number one. I'm like, really? I mean, come on. I mean, yeah, he's a badass, but there's some bigger public enemies out there. Yeah. I'm just saying it's like that we somehow he like, you know, sends one tweet and all of a sudden apparently he stopped

an entire legislation. I just don't know how an industry stops legislation. that it's like we're saying all the quiet parts out loud about where the influence is coming from. It's not supposed to be. And this is what happened to Circle stock yesterday, by the way, on this news that likely Stable Coins would not be getting yield. Over a 20% down day. I mean, I don't think that it has anything to do with people actually adopting Circle or using Stable Coins. I think if you looked at the actual data, I don't know if it was yesterday or the day before or even the day before that. but we set a new record for USDC transactions.

I mean, some check. USGT, I think. Yeah. I mean, it was an unbelievable number. And look, once you use a stable coin, I would say, you know, once you use it on a Sunday morning in your pajamas, you're like, oh my God, this is so much better than cash. I mean, I'm trying to send a wire again, old school, a wire, to,

a Cayman-based fund, right? Hedge funds have Cayman funds. And first of all, they said, well, I need the Swift code. Like, oh, my God. Like, literally you need the facts, like machine code. Okay, I'll go ask where they wrote down on a piece of paper, the Swift code. Okay, fine. Okay, how long is it going to take?

Oh, two days. I'm like two days. Like, are you going to walk it to the Caymans? Like, take a boat? I mean, two days? It's insane. And then, of course, they charge me a gazillion dollars on a percentage basis. You know, there's not a lot of money in the big.

But it's just all so wrong. And, okay, I made it. I don't know if I told you the story on that, but I'll tell you a funny story about Swift, how bad it is. how antiquated it is. So we had an experience with one of our investors. They got hacked. And the hacker, literally, this is an amazing program, was somehow in their email. And every time they got an email that said, hey, we're making a distribution of one of your investments, it would send new wire instructions to a bank, actually, believe it or not, in Kazakhstan. And so, you know, we get this email

from the sender's email. We're like, okay, fine. So it routes through their bank in Australia. And so we call the bank in Australia when we figured out that it was a hack or he figured out was a hack because he didn't get the money and called the bank in Australia

and said, well, could you help us track where it went? You know, what bank in Kazakana? Say, we lost the swift message. Like, what do you mean? He said, well, we printed out the facts and we put it on this desk and the cleaning people threw it away.

I'm like, you're lying. I mean, that's, like, there's no backup of that fax code. There's no... I mean, to be fair, Mark, swift transactions apparently have to go through the straits of Hormuz. Ah!

It's just closed. Yeah, it's just closed. It's just closed. And, you know, I know that's inconvenient for you, But and then the worst part of it is because I'm sending money to the Caymans, I got to pay tax to the European bankers family that I shall not name because then I get struck down. But I got to pay tax because the Bank of International Settlements set up a deal 400 years ago that says they have to get paid when money crosses borders. Which again, if I send my money using USTC, I don't I don't pay that tax. It's fair and it's cheap and it's fast and it's settled.

And it's settled. And it's permanent and it's truth. And this is the part and this is why I'm here, right? I mean, I'm old. I'm not a techie. I'm the, I don't wear black t-shirts. I'm not the guy who's supposed to be here. But the whole idea of getting away from trust where I have to trust the accountants and

the auditors. and the actual bank that they actually not only have my money, which I know they don't because I know how fractional banking works, but that they actually have the accurate record of my money, and that an auditor isn't in cahoots with them to change it so that I don't have that money, which is no longer my money, it's their money, and that it can go on this permanent immutable ledger and I own it. Like, I have digital property rights to that asset. That is a mind-blowing phenomenon. And once you see it, you cannot unsee it.

You cannot stop fighting for it, which is what, you know, collectively we're all doing. It is a beautiful thing. And it's an example, you know, like fire, like electricity, like basic innovations that change humanity. And Mark, that's, that's, you know, you're prone to hyperbole, I know, but come on, that's hyperbolic. No, it's not. This is a humanity changing technology that is going to be at the base layer of everything, but it doesn't mean the incumbents aren't going to fight it. And that's, yeah, I mean, I love this headline right here. Like, I look at it and I'm like, bullish, right? You know, BNY Mellon CEO, Robin Vince says large banks will lead crypto's next

growth phase by linking digital assets to traditional finance. And I'm thinking, you know, this is what we were cheering for. This is great. But then the other side of me says, bad. No, that sounds great. And it was well scripted by, you know, the writer. But no, that is that is evil corp, right? And you know, you don't have talked about Mr. Robot the series. And an evil corp, you know, is J.P. Morgan.

It could easily be Bank of New York Mellon. But it is, it is J.P. Morgan. And evil coin is JPMorgan coin. And pushing crypto into the banking system and just making banking rails work on crypto technology is not what we signed up for because those are not permissionless networks. Those are permission networks. That is basically a better, faster, swift, which I'm not really in favor of. Again, I'm not a person that wants to blow up fraction reserves or banking.

I know there are some that do, but I don't. I actually think there's benefit to lending money and, you know, that kind of stuff. But I think the idea that the banks that have been taxing us, I won't say stealing from us, because we do get something for it, but they've been taxing us, you know, $7 trillion a year for a very long time. I think it's time to move on to a better. or faster, cheaper system. I mean, even Brian's here saying, you know, Coinbase CEO, Brian Armstrong says, major banks are integrating stable coins for faster payments, tokenizing assets, and offering

crypto trading to clients. I think that's all true. I guess this all comes back to, A, there was no way that Bitcoin becomes a global reserve asset or that crypto reaches true mainstream adoption without going through Wall Street and government. I understand that part. It's just a very dangerous passing to get through there without it being entirely co-opted. I'm not talking about it. No, as you said, it's the straight.

It's the straight. It's the straight. It's narrow. And we can invest in this. Like, how do I invest in BNY Melling, Mellon being the like next great adoption wave? How do I invest in that? I buy circle stock maybe?

I don't know. It's not any token. Yes, you would buy circle stock except circle stock can be manipulated by headlines that. And also, I mean, stable coins I have you have to worry about into the future, especially publicly traded, and this is, you know, maybe we'll see others, but like yields are going to come down. Like if that, isn't, isn't buying a stock and a stable coin effectively just buying a bond? It's like interest rate exposure.

I mean, it's like, you know, because of most of their income obviously comes from high. Scott, there is a growth component because you can grow your transaction volume, right? That's, that's different than just having a base layer of transaction volume and a yield. you can turn it into a growth company, but there is a parabolic kind of slowing of growth of anything. And once you get to the ultimate end, the fees are going to continue to shrink and shrink and shrink and they spread. It's kind of like lending, right? The first person who wants to lend says, I need to be paid 15%. And then the next person says, well, I'll do it for 14.

And the next person says, well, I'll do it for 13. And finally, you get down to like the lowest cost of capital, which is usually a German pension fund. They're like, well, I'll do it for two. Like, well, two doesn't compensate you for the risk. Well, it doesn't matter. I just, I need two to beat my actuary assumed rate. So, so great. And so spreads compress.

And that's normal. So then what do people do? Well, then they lever those spreads to get back to the spread that people need to move off the couch. And then we get subprime blow up or now private credit blow up. And private credit is not as leveraged as subprime. But we'll see. Actually, the real problem is those banks still have massive losses from all those bonds that they were stuffed during ZERP at zero that now are worth much less at 5%.

And yields rising every day. So I don't know. I usually think, I always think, markets do a better job setting rates than politicians. Crazy. Crazy thought, I know. Do you have to go now, by the way? No, I can hang out with you. All right, cool.

You know, I never know if people got to run at 930 because I don't do my diligence before the show and actually ask. Well, look, I'm super easy. I am, you know, one of the nice things about, you know, being a venture capitalist is it's, it isn't like being an investment banker or a trader where, you know, market opens and you've got to go. And I guess invest banking is not the same either. But, you know, it's not like trading or asset management, you know, and part of it too is most of the people I talk to, they're still sleeping because it's in California. Some of them are getting up early because they're doing the 5 a.m. thing, which I just,

They're just getting up early to get in line at TSA pre-check for their 3 p.m. flight. Yeah, yeah. No kidding. Yeah, I was in Houston on Sunday passing through, and we got super lucky. We got on the little train, and the guy told us, they had sent us, we landed in E. We had to, you know, clear customs. Then the line in E when we rechecked our bags was 5,000 people. I have no idea.

And they were like, but do you have pre-check? And we said, yes, they said, go to C. We have pre-checked at C. they sent us to C. We got in a little train. Luckily, a guy was there. He was like, I just came from C. There's a four-hour line, but they're sending me to A, and there's a five-minute line for pre-check.

So we went to A, and we actually got through clear and pre-checked in five minutes, and then had to go back to D for our next flight. Oh, my Lord. And then apparently they completely, hours later, closed all pre-checks. Really? Yeah, it's that bad. So we got super lucky flights were on time, and we made it. But yeah, it's really, really ugly out there.

So don't go fly anywhere, I guess. Well, yeah, so I'm flying on Saturday, but thankfully it is Raleigh, which is, you know, not, not super. But it will be bad. You know, Raleigh's normally, I say, the worst airport in America because we have this weird woman who was like with TSA and D.C. And she just has these weird rules where there's to be certain distance between people. I mean, it's bad. So we're very slow. But, all right, thank you.

I'll go earlier. My wife would be happy. Maybe I'll be fine by. Saturday. Maybe they'll reopen that part of the government or something. Oh, yeah, that's good. Let me ask you this, like, since we have a couple of minutes, as a VC, obviously, who's focused in this space, what's actually interesting to you right now? I mean, certainly tokenization. You know, we were early investors in Figure and I love Mike Cagney and everything he's doing. And it seems like every day he's making an announcement with some new way to create tokenized assets, to

trade tokenized assets to list tokenized assets to use them as collateral. Now, it's a long adoption cycle, but, but I think, you know, and, and there are people on both sides of securitize, I guess. There's, I don't know, I don't know the whole story, but there are definitely some lovers and some less, uh, enthusiastic people, but, but, you know, Securitize seems to be making headlines every week as well. So I think, I think having an asset, like a digital property right, is just better on chain than online or old school paper. Like DTCC should not exist, right?

There should not be physical pieces of paper sitting in file drawers in Dallas, Texas. That needs to go away. So that is a big deal. Stable coins and stable coin payment rails. So we've been doing a lot actually in Latin America. in in payment rails and payment systems and that has been really interesting and the amount of of money that moves cross border because of like silly rules like you know if you make the things in China send it to Mexico assemble it there and then truck it across it's not made in China.

Okay fine whatever but that creates a whole bunch of businesses right on the border that need to send money across the border. And it turns out stablecoins are just a lot easier. And that is a massive business. Or the remittances for, you know, contract workers on cruise lines, right? That all go back to the Philippines, right? I learned this a couple of years ago that the vast majority of that industry is, like, Brazilian and Filipino.

So there are big business. is being built on that. You know, I'm still actually quite bullish on Coinbase. We are early, early investors and we have sold most of what we own at this point. But I'm becoming increasingly bullish again on what's going on there and how I think, you know, I think about my original vision was someone was going to build the big four. of the digital age, right? JPMorgan, City, Golden Sacks, Morgan Stanley, you can throw Wells farther in there. So, Big Five. Someone was going to build that. Robin Hood, right? Yeah. And so,

you know, I think there are the beginnings. And I really thought it was going to be the lenders, the digital lenders, but then they got shut down by the incumbents through, you know, many things that happened and maybe you could say there was a conspiracy with FTX to sync them all. Maybe you could say that. But I didn't say it. Well, I've said it. But now I think it's maybe Coinbase. I thought Cracken maybe, but there's something weird with this delay with their IP.

So maybe it's not crack. I don't know. But they have been building. I like Yoni at E. Toro. But I just don't know that that. that it's an amazing, that and Robin Hood are interesting in that they've, they've kind of created virtual Las Vegases. And Etor is a little different. Like, like the, the gamification of Robinhood to me is bad. Like one button, 100 times leverage and options, that, that's, that's gambling.

What Yoni's done with the copy trading is actually quite extraordinary. Because there's talent in the world of trade. I'm not that. I'm a horrible trader. But he's got some very talented people on the platform. And with one button, I can copy them. That's very interesting from a lot of perspective. So I like that.

But I'll tell you who I think, back to Mike Cagney, you know, he founded SoFi. And Sofi, I think could be one of these in the sense that I think they're the closest to building the American Express of this generation. And the American Express, I mean, if you look at the stock, it's been amazing, but it was the thing for a very long time. I mean, Visa MasterCard, great business is fine. But American Express was different. It was a club.

It was a segment of population. If you had it, you were in, right? It's like being an early Facebook invitee. SoFi's kind of done that. And that network effect, that community value is real. Like, Chime, probably similar tech, but they don't have the same. I've never even heard of Chime if that shows you. Yeah.

Chime is, Chime's a great business, $10 billion company, or at least it was $10 billion. It's probably not $10 billion anymore. But it, I'm going to check it out. But it was. And I mean, it's, it's an amazing business for, anyway, I'll figure it out. But I think so far is there. So that's a long rambling answer to, I do think financial services is going to exist. It has existed, right, since the Knights Templar. And I'm not making, like, oh, there goes, you go down, the Illuminati thing. No, no, it was literally the Knights Templar with the Red crosses, the Portuguese monks, they invented this in the 1100s. I mean, they figured out things like

fractional reserve banking and using gold as your base for monetary transactions. And they did some other stuff too that wasn't as nice. But that set the course for financial services. And the Medici's in the 1200s created modern banking as we know it. And it said, that's had a good 849 whatever year run. That's over, I think. And the new era of banking, I think, revolves around defy and C-Fi, because I still think you need C-Fi first, centralized forms of eventually what will be defy because tradfi. They're just not ready for defy. Yeah.

There are people that need someone to trust or someone to yell at, which that is, I see, I know one negative. I have one negative and everyone has the same thing about Coinbase, right? So again, investor, I have an account for family harmony reasons. And I have this account. And for some reason, not for some reason, because I didn't put, push the right button. I didn't set up auto draft of my invoices for my custody account, my cold storage account. You and me both, buddy, and you can't find out how to pay these damn things.

Oh my God. You can't go buy and sell anything. And then all of a sudden you have to do customer service. Like, you haven't paid your invoice. I'm like, how do you pay your invoice? Show me. And then you, but there's no customer service. In crime.

There's a crime. Yeah. Yeah, there's no human that I can get to. And this is almost as bad. So in lockdown, my son and I started playing Pokemon Go. And I became, let's say, addicted to Pokemon Go. And my Pokemon Go account got frozen and literally got it wouldn't work. And so I started another one.

So my original one was Got Bitcoin. And so I started Got Bitcoin 2. So now my better account is Got Bitcoin 2. and long story short, I'm so pissed off about it. I said, I'm a Twitter shame the CEO. And I Twitter shame the CPU. And I said, look, for 17 months, I haven't been able to play this account. What is going on?

I need to talk to a human because there's no humans that you can get to at Niantic. And she actually came back to me. So I give her credit. She actually came back to me and said, all right, call this number. You will get a human. I got a human. They fixed it like that. it was just a glitch in the yeah it's literally like one person had to push a button but it took you

a year and a half i mean yeah but he can't yeah so is crazy anyway yeah i mean yeah to i had the same experience i don't know if it's because you forgot to push a button or whether you did or did not but uh yeah it's really hard to uh pay your mother no it's it's crazy and and i want to pay them right and i i want okay one other little glitch i don't know if you had this experience so I'm like, well, okay, I should be able to pay them with USC, right? So I wanted to transfer USDC from my regular Coinbase account to my prime account. I copy the address from their link, from inside, inside, and I paste it in, and I double check it, and I read all the numbers. And I go, it says, we've detected a potential scam.

I'm like, that's your address. I mean, I'm sending it from you to you. I'm not sending it outside. I'm not sending, how could that be a scam? And they wouldn't process. I'm like, okay. I had a thing with like USDC or USD payment and was trying to switch from one to the other and it was a whole process.

Yeah, it's not easy. And look, and I know these are problems that will get solved, but I'm like, come on, guys. if I'm your client and you've already done all the stuff right you've already taken my photograph that's the other thing how many times do I have to hold up my damn face with my face proof of life yeah proof of life like I'm the same anyway so it's and the fact that I'm having as I'm doing this my wife yelling at me going if you can't figure this out how the fuck and It doesn't mean that I'm so smart. It's like, look, you actually spent time in this.

If you can't do it, there's no way my mom's going to do it. My brother's going to. No way. We're getting closer, but we're not ready for prime time yet. It's clear. That's not a non-specific to any one company. That's not a bitch session about Coinbase. I love Coinbase.

I'm bullish Coinbase. I just, come on, guys. Give me some humans that I can talk to, not agents. And don't hide the buttons. Like, let me just push the button to transfer you the money. Then you'll get paid. Yeah, I mean, I just want to pay you. Actually, Scott, I even tried this.

I even tried sending an email. Of course, it wouldn't accept the email because it was to the automated whatever. Apply. Don't reply to it. Don't reply. I'm like, just take the money. I give you permission to just take the money. Like, because, I mean, I don't know.

I don't know how to. And it's not even a lot of money. I mean, it's a few hundred dollars. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting that you had the same experience. It's a bit frustrating, but otherwise, incredible product. Well, now I'm going to let you go. It's 945 and you have a flight Saturday. So you got to go get in line. Yeah, I got to go get in line. All right. Thanks for having me. Thanks, thanks for everything you do. Thanks for being the leader out there. And thanks for being the wolf that we all howl with. Thank you, sir. I deeply appreciate it. And I'll have you back very, very soon.

Thank you, everybody. I will see you tomorrow. Be good.