The Wolf Of All Streets - Putting All Of Your Money Into Crypto | Jason Urban, Co-Head Of Trading, Galaxy Digital

Starting point is 00:00:00 This episode is sponsored by my good friends at Bullish. Stay tuned for more information on this amazing company later in the episode. Most people have cushy jobs with legacy financial institutions don't leave to take a huge bet on crypto. But that's exactly what Jason Urban did. He went to work with Mike Novogratz after selling his company to Galaxy

Starting point is 00:00:35 and now he is all in on crypto. He has no fear that this bear market will be different than anyone in the past and is definitely looking to deploy capital and start to buy more assets while prices are depressed he'll tell you why somebody uh jokingly that i know tweeted something like i you know this is my first bear market in crypto uh anyone who

Starting point is 00:00:57 was here before can you tell me what lesson you learned and i said don't check your portfolio yeah that's it yeah doesn't exist until until you're ready to not do this anymore you know and you're just like I I'm done like like this is this is it like this is the game right you're you're stuff that you have stuff that you love that's gonna go to the moon and some of it does and some of it fizzles and you can't we all just spraying and praying anyway yeah it's like all we need is one in ten exactly i don't need to be like a hundred percent hit rate god tier trader i just need one of these things not to suck well it's exactly right and listen even the good traders like i mean i've been trading for 25

Starting point is 00:01:34 years like it's you know it's it's it's you know you're going to win some you know you're going to lose some and i always jokingly say you're never as good as your best day you're never as bad as your worst day you're somewhere in the middle. But yeah, I mean, you said you've been trading for 25 years. Is there anything new in this one at all? No, this is, you know, you know what's new in this one is that we've been telling, I say we, the crypto community has been telling a story. And the story is that this is a transformative technology. It's a transformative thing. And we finally have the trad-fi people to buying in. And then the naysayers who are the last holdouts, they're saying,

Starting point is 00:02:15 there's no way that this is for real. This is just fake Internet money. And now there's those people on the sidelines saying, I told you so, I told you so. But you get that all the time. It's part of the game, right? Like it's part of it. Like in a lot of ways we are evangelists. We are telling a story and convincing people to, you know, to believe what we believe, right?

Starting point is 00:02:41 I mean, that's really if you think about it. And so, I i mean what's different maybe the the people that are involved are a little more well-heeled than the previous group and the previous group in the previous group but listen the asset class has also gone up substantially so it you would expect that it's it's it's been de-risked it's a real asset i love being depressed at thirty thousand dollars yes i remember i remember i was just telling sorry 2018 and i'm sitting there and i'm like so i gave up a good career trading i i could do this job in my sleep to come and do this and i've watched the thing just go like like like

Starting point is 00:03:18 like a rock off a cliff and i'm like like i mean 2018 there wasn't even an uptick until it hit 3000 i mean it was just a. Yeah, it basically stayed at six. And they're like, OK, it's bottoming. Exactly. One more clip. And then you start to have that. Well, what have I done?

Starting point is 00:03:36 You know, but isn't that the best bottom signal? Yeah. Like when the true believers start to get a little bit of that self-doubt. Now, the thing is, you can never really like, you know, like it's funny. I don't have that self-doubt yet right now. So maybe there's more room to go, you know. But it's as you think through all the things that, you know, we've gone through, the changes that have happened. Like I remember having conversations with people and they're like stables of the future.

Starting point is 00:04:04 I'm like, what are you talking about? You you know like the dollar is the thing you know and you're a doubter and then you're like well let me think about this and let me look at it oh wow you know i never thought of it that way i think the people that are successful in crypto have a malleable mind strong opinions loosely held it's like that's my favorite it's my favorite saying because i think the most staunch bitcoin believers certainly and crypto believers were the biggest doubters. Yeah. Even Saylor. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:28 Right? Even Saylor was a massive skeptic, if not complete doubter. If you're an investor or you're a professional, you have to doubt. You know, the person who just says, I'm going to believe no matter what. And then, you know, like, think about, think about, you know, the different situations we've seen where people have turned huge bags into de minimis bags, because they didn't at least hedge along the way. They weren't responsible investors. They were, you know, gamblers in a lot of ways. And so I think you have to, unless it's one of those spray and pray, and we're all trying to, you know, look for, you know, outsized gains, I think you have to, unless it's one of those spray and pray and we're all trying to look for outsized gains,

Starting point is 00:05:07 I think you have to be a prudent investor. I always believe that what crypto slash blockchain is going to do to finance is what the Internet did to retail. When I was a kid and I'm old, you'd go to JCPenney's, you'd get the catalog. And now it's gone. It's all on the Internet. a kid and i'm old you'd go to jc pennies you'd get the catalog you know and you know oh my you know and now now it's gone it's it's all on the it's all on the internet what what's going to happen with with finance is it's all going to go on chain or some form of crypto and it's it really is the future it's really where we're going so but most people who are in your position who traded other markets for 25 years, as you said, had sort of a cushy situation.

Starting point is 00:05:47 You didn't really need to take that risk. Most of them are not going to make that jump. No. Ever. No. But why did you? You know, I made a mistake early, early in my career. And the mistake was in the Internet age when I got into the markets.

Starting point is 00:06:02 I was like, ah, this Internet thing is great. This is awesome for, is awesome for consuming information. I don't need my Encyclopedia Britannica anymore. I've got Encarta. And I just put this little CD in, and it takes me to the, you know. And I said, it's never going to be anything. And here you are, fast forward 20 years, and I show up, and there's 30 packages in front of my house every day.

Starting point is 00:06:25 And you don't go to bricks and mortar stores unless you have to. And I made that mistake. And I said, I'm never going to make that mistake again. I'm not going to ever be so incalcitrant in my thought process that I'm not going to at least try to see the other side of the coin and what something can be. And so in my time at DRW, when Cumberland was starting, and I remember being at a dinner with a couple of the Cumberland guys, a handful of the lieutenants that were kind of running different things, and this is probably the year, across the table, a guy just turns to the person next to him and says,

Starting point is 00:07:03 hey, I just bought 200,000 ETH for a for a quarter now you're at a dinner with traders and somebody says i bought 200 000 of anything whatever it is that you were just whatever you were just talking about doesn't really matter anymore it's like you put 200 000 like it's like you know the old ef hutton commercial you know when you have hutton talks everybody listens when somebody throws out a 200 000 i bought 200 000 of anything you you stop and listen. And they're explaining to me, you know, the guy said, you know, I bought $200,000 ETH for a quarter. I go, ETH? He's like, Ether. And like, the gas? Like, what are you, a dentist? And he's like, no, Ethereum. And he starts to explain it to me. And, you know, I'm like, at first, my first reaction

Starting point is 00:07:40 was, all right, this is just crazy internet money. And then I started to, like, look into it and say, what is the, you know, what is this? And, you know, if you're a student of markets, a student of economics, you understand the thing, the chickens that are coming home to roost today with inflation and monetary policy, fiscal policy, the things that are happening, like, people saw that. That was a slow motion train wreck for the last 15 years so when you start to learn about it like wow this is really interesting and that was kind of what my first step in was like okay let me get in now and then I really started to buy it that's when I started a company called drawbridge lending which galaxy ultimately

Starting point is 00:08:23 acquired and so you know at the time when I when I started drawbridge called Drawbridge Lending, which Galaxy ultimately acquired. And so, you know, at the time when I started Drawbridge, I was thinking about an idea. How do I get in the space? I was like, well, jump, you know, the jumps of the world, the towers of the world. You know, the people who have the fast Twitch bots are just going to unplug from S&P and plug into crypto. And arb the hell out of it. Yeah. It's so inefficient. Yeah, I was like, oh, I could buy twos and sell fours instantaneously.

Starting point is 00:08:51 Like, at some point, I recognized that that was just going to go to here. Yeah. But I was like, you know, it's a bearer asset. People need to understand. People need the asset. They're going to want to borrow fiat against it. I didn't really think through at the time, like, well, people are going to need to borrow fiat against it. I didn't really think through at the time, like, well, people are going to need to borrow other crypto and different,

Starting point is 00:09:08 because at the time it was really Bitcoin and ETH and everything else was kind of, you know, what is this? And so that was kind of like, then I went all in. I was like, I'm not going to do this trading thing anymore. I'm going to start this company, and this is going to be, this is going to change the world. And that was really the the start of drawbridge which was ultimately acquired by by mike and galaxy and that's how i came over in in

Starting point is 00:09:31 my my role a couple years ago but you know and it was interesting because i'd already i was doing a lot of business with galaxy in that capacity and it was kind of like one of those well maybe it makes sense to have you over here versus there and so so that was kind of how I made that jump from one, you know, I guess the difficult thing and people ask this occasionally is like, you know, why did you sell the galaxy? And one of the things that I thought through was like this concept of financial gravity. As we have these great revolutionary ideas, they tend to gradually coalesce around things. And do you want to be the first mover to coalesce or the last mover? And, you know, I felt like the things that Galaxy was doing and continue to do, you know, were putting

Starting point is 00:10:18 us in a position for that next generation because we do touch the entire ecosystem we aren't you know necessarily an investment bank in crypto but we're you know pre-seed investors seed investors you know as well as you know talking to pension funds who want to do things it's like you kind of get the full spectrum and if you think that the the technology is going to change the world that was that's kind of the iterations there. And there's no lack of capital still flowing in. Of course, it's a bear market, and it's like, Andreessen Horowitz raises $4.5 billion, right?

Starting point is 00:10:52 But do you think that while things are depressed and while people are sort of forgetting about the market or having their doubts that it's actually the best time to? Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's one of the things that, you know, even being down here in Austin, we talk to the team and like, hey, listen, we're here to help. It's not like we're here from the government and we're here to help.

Starting point is 00:11:16 We're here to help. And so, you know, call it a broken angel, somebody that, you know, listen, you can get caught off sides in markets like this. And so, you know, it doesn't mean you're and so you know doesn't mean you're you're not smart it doesn't mean you're not thoughtful it just means that situation went against you just kids are here man you know and so so our job is to step in and say hey we can we can help like let us help you let us partner with you let us let us get you back on the you know so that comes with an equity component and it comes, you know, we're here to also succeed.

Starting point is 00:11:49 And so from that standpoint, it kind of goes hand in hand. But to be someone who's very familiar with the ecosystem, very familiar with what crypto is and say, okay, here, we're here to help. We're not just going to write a check and walk away. We're going to write a check and bring you in and we're going to transact with you and we're going to connect you to this portfolio company. And it's going to be a creative process as opposed to here's a lifeline. Let's hope you make it and the spray and pray. You know, we're here very much to, you know, to help foster. And so right now is an outstanding time. You know, it's difficult because people are in the other markets where we've had this happen.

Starting point is 00:12:28 It hasn't been as disruptive in what I'll call trad fi. You know, for 20 years, the Fed hasn't moved interest rates, really. And now all of a sudden it's meaningful. I mean, mortgages are six percent, gas is nine dollars in places like the world isn't kind of. And so that's when, you know, the old saying is when there's blood in the streets, buy. Like, there's blood in the streets in the TradFi world where all of us crypto veterans have been hardened through many cycles like this where it's like, oh, geez. Oh, sorry you're down 30%, guys. We did that in an hour. Yeah, that was Tuesday. But, you know, so there's a little bit of that, too.

Starting point is 00:13:09 So it's kind of a... It is pretty wild seeing the Netflix, Facebook, Snapchats of the world do, you know, like low-cap altcoin moves in 10 minutes. You know, we have this narrative that Bitcoin is too volatile. We can't get an ETF because Bitcoin is too volatile. We can't get an ETF because Bitcoin is too volatile. And then Facebook's like, hold my beer. And in 10 minutes, 10 minutes after hours, it drops 30 percent. And it's not a 24-7 market where investors, especially retail investors, can react or hedge or do anything about that. If it happens on a weekend, you're waiting until Monday toay to react so like and that's a

Starting point is 00:13:45 terrible weekend too i mean that that's the other thing i mean there's nothing you can do i i remember when uh elon musk you know posted the should i sell 10 of my tesla stock poll on twitter it was a saturday or sunday and you could see in real time tesla trading on fdx yes on the weekend and basically predict what was going to happen. Exactly. So don't you think it's inevitable or at least necessary that we should not be conforming to the existing framework and that all of these should be catching up to what's happening in crypto? Oh, 100%.

Starting point is 00:14:17 I mean, that's why I think that what crypto is going to do to finance, like, it's going to come. Like, you can't legislate away progress. Right. So if, if we look at regulation and the, and the walls that get put up to, you know, protect either a traditional system or constituents in that system, you can't, you can't, you can't put up a, put up a fence or make a rule that says you can't be better or we can't be better because over time people find a way to climb over the fence under the fence around the fence like we will we will we we will win because we have a better mousetrap and that's just humanity that's just evolution that that's what we are and And so when you think through that, that's where it's going to

Starting point is 00:15:06 end up. Now, are we going to run into walls occasionally and regulators are going to come in and say, no, you can't do that? Or jurisdictions? I've been speaking a lot today about what are we doing here as a country? We've always been this shining beacon on a hill, this home of innovation and progress and here we are i mean so many of the crypto people that i came into the business with you know five six years ago were like i'm leaving yeah moving here i'm moving there why are you leaving well you know my parents are are gone i don't have anything holding me here and i have a government that's actively working against me in some capacity, whatever

Starting point is 00:15:45 field they're in, they're like, why do I want to be here? And if we drive the best and the brightest of us away, what are we going to be left with, right? Like innovation is going to happen somewhere else. And that's not good for all of us because the United States is about progress, is about, you know, an egalitarian society where we can all grow. If you've got a good idea and you work hard, you can make it. If we send that offshore, what are we doing? What are we, you know, that dream

Starting point is 00:16:12 that we've all been sold is gone. I think a lot of people would say that dream is gone even before we sent it away, especially when you look at inflation numbers and what's happening to your average person or the percentage of people that even have exposure to any hard assets in the stock market and anything like that. But you have to imagine that even in their ignorance, legislators and regulators see that

Starting point is 00:16:32 and can't ignore the fact at this point that this is. I mean, you think about the terrible bag that the baby boomers have been dealt in the sense, and not that they haven't been the cause of problems, but they are the ones that vote, to be honest. And as a markets person, I look at like, you look at demographics and you say, why is crypto going to win demographics? But the boomers were the ones that made the stock market go higher. They were fed, you know, since the 1950s, buy stocks, 401ks. And that was what happened. Now, all of a sudden, you're going to give them 10% inflation, you're going to raise rates to 6%, 7%, and you're going to rug them on the stock market, and you're going to sit there. And those are the people that are going to vote.

Starting point is 00:17:14 And what are they going to do? Are they going to embrace us or not? Now, the advantage of that is the millennials, which is the next big demographic push, 92% of them are some crazy made-up statistic. They've touched some form of cryptocurrency, whether it's through games or through... And they're just digitally native in general. Exactly. So there's no jump for them. Yes. And so that's what will ultimately save us.

Starting point is 00:17:40 But what happens when the boomers start to vote $ you know, $9 gas and, you know, the house that they mortgaged six ways from Sunday with a home equity line, and they're like, I don't have to work, and, you know, we've made improvements in health care. You're going to live longer, and the bag that you have is not going to support you anymore. We just did this over a decade ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:18:05 Did you learn anything? Well, that's the thing. We're just going to print more money and then have the same. All the more reason why what we have is where you want to be. It's a natural hedge against inflation, and it's where the innovation is happening. Everybody knows that there are advantages to trading on both centralized and decentralized exchanges. But why not choose an exchange like Bullish that offers the best of both worlds? Bullish's total trading volume recently exceeded $25 billion in just seven months since they launched,

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Starting point is 00:19:13 I read a statistic the other day that said the interest on the national debt in 2000 was higher than it is today. But the national debt today is exponentially higher. It's because interest rates have been zero. So now all of a sudden you're going to multiply the number. You go from 25 basis points to 50 basis points. You just doubled your debt payment. Now you're going to take it up to 3%, to 4%. Where is that payment going to come from? Well, you can print more money, which is just going to create more of the same problem, or you can raise taxes, which there's no political will for that.

Starting point is 00:19:48 Like, the Fed's in a trick bag. And so the real answer is to innovate your way out of it, which naturally, if you look at the world today, you say, where's the innovation happening? Where are the smartest minds in the space residing? They're residing in our ecosystem. And so if we can get some regulatory clarity, I'm not even saying, like, yeah, residing in our ecosystem. And so if we can, if we can get some regulatory clarity, I'm not even saying like, yeah, there needs to be rails. Like you can't just go out and create a Ponzi, but like, give us some, give us some, some regulatory clarity so that we can all go and build in this ecosystem. And maybe we got a chance to earn our way out of 30 years of, of,

Starting point is 00:20:22 of mistakes and political low. Like that's that's i mean it feels to me like the sentiment right now is even bad certainty would be better than this uncertainty well yes bad certainties i don't mean like uh yeah any attempted outright ban or whatever but like see what's happening with minors in new york and you're like what's going on as far as i've seen the governor hasn't signed it yet probably by the time this comes out, we'll definitely know. One of my best friends has a house on Seneca Lake, which is right next to Greenwich Minor. And they had published this story locally that they were boiling the lake, and I happened to be there. And I was like, this lake is freezing. I don't know what you guys are talking about, but it gives you an idea of how nonsensical sort of what they're proposing is.

Starting point is 00:21:04 I'm like, there's a submarine base in the middle of this lake.ensical sort of what they're uh proposing is i'm like this is a there's a submarine base in the middle of this lake it's so deep you're not boiling it boiling anything but i i really think that there are people who haven't done the work and believe those things you know i was on a panel earlier and somebody brought up esg and i said the issue isn't esg we have lost as an industry, lost the narrative. More energy is spent playing video games than it is, you know, mining cryptocurrency. People aren't up in arms about the PlayStation 5s that you couldn't get, you know, for your kids. And Christmas lights, man.

Starting point is 00:21:38 Yeah, yeah. Troubled dryers. Yeah, I mean, there's, yeah, exactly. No, we just have lost the narrative. And so now, when you lose, you can either fight it or you can say, fine, we'll embrace it and we'll show you why you're wrong. And that's what we're going to have to do as an industry. But, you know, turning off an entire state's worth, you know, where you have hydroelectric and everything else like that seems a little extreme to me. But we have to we have to embrace it.

Starting point is 00:22:02 We have to find a way to work with it and then and then prove through facts facts and numbers and circumstances like this is the truth like the truth is that it doesn't change are we going to rally against video games now no no so but we've lost that narrative right and it feels speaking of narratives it feels like in crypto we have these like six month periods of defy summer, NFT summer, metaverse, right? And then they obviously we have this sort of mini bubbles and this cool off, but where are you guys looking to deploy? What are you excited about in the next six months, year, 18 months?

Starting point is 00:22:36 Where do you think we're going to see real innovation? And even which things do you think were sort of nonsense and crypto doesn't fix this? Well, here, you know, I think when you think through it, you know, maybe some of these ideas were 80% right and they weren't the, you know, the 100%. They were, and so I think what you're going to see is more of the same over the next six months. But what we're looking for are people that are taking it and putting a little bit different twist on it in a way that is meaningful and is going to change things.

Starting point is 00:23:08 We know regulation is coming. It has to. You can't make $60 billion, just go to zero and not have regulators show up and say, guys, what happened over here? And they were here long before that. We just gave ourselves a swift kick. Yes. I was like, oh, hold my beer. You think that's bad? Watch this.

Starting point is 00:23:29 So you have to expect regulation to come, so things that at least are more regulatory compliant and that are not overtly thumbing their nose at regulators but willing to work with that. You look at talking about DeFi. One of the issues that us as a regulated institution as publicly traded company have to be very thoughtful around is is aml kyc and and how do you interact so people who are looking at ways to to do that compliantly and to get on chain compliantly is important to us because that we see those

Starting point is 00:24:02 like wow that will open up the spigots to you know 15 trillion dollars of money here or you know whatever it is that's going to ultimately flow in that's kind of the you know i think things that are interesting to us so it's pretty clear for you actually you sort of everything is already funneled down to a very small bucket of what you guys can even really reasonably look at. No, I mean, we look at everything. We invest in everything. But what will, you know, so if you think about the breadth of Galaxy, I mean, we, everything from principal investments to, you know, helping pension funds trade their exposure

Starting point is 00:24:41 to crypto, like it truly is, you know, and one of the reasons why I was always drawn to them was you're touching every single part. We mine. We have validators. We do capital formation through investment banking, things like that where you're seeing things and you're getting to see the really smart players, the players that are thinking about things the right way

Starting point is 00:25:01 as opposed to being quick and fast. And I think that if nothing this little little cold the crypto cold spell we're having is going to be an opportunity for everyone to retrench to to to rebuild to you know we were all running so fast and i would use the example of crypto in in in 21 and 22 was kind of like an early part of 22 was kind of like, in the early part of 22, was kind of like that inflation after the Big Bang. It was going so fast you couldn't hold on. Everybody was trying to hold on to the four corners of the universe as it was going so fast. Now that we've kind of stopped, we have a chance to kind of tidy our shops.

Starting point is 00:25:39 I think the smart places will do that and they'll focus. And the people who are still trying to hold on are gonna get you know dragged down crazy I think we're gonna see the majority of hedge funds disappear yeah I mean I think that there's gonna be a portion of that you know and here we'll see those what I think is interesting is you'll see those hedge some hedge funds disappear and then you'll see new ones either sprout up either from the same people or you'll see some hedge funds disappear, and then you'll see new ones either sprout up, either from the same people, or you'll see the TradFi universe, who's finally starting to really step in, fill that gap. And so I'm not concerned about it from a business continuity perspective for the ecosystem,

Starting point is 00:26:21 like the people that have built their businesses to service that. I think we'll be okay because, I mean, we see it. We see the TradFi people coming in. Now, yeah, some of it is like, you know, the tether, we jokingly at times, oh, the tether truthers want a short tether. You know, you see that and you're like, all right, like it's not the same, you know, like the world is different. So, but i think you'll see them walk in i think you'll see them step in in a way and maybe it is you know you have to establish a short position and tether hopefully it's not that they just show up to short everything well i mean but here but then there'll be yields for people who need to borrow well yeah exactly they gotta borrow

Starting point is 00:27:02 that money somewhere yeah well well that, there'll be yields. But just as importantly, they'll learn. And education is so important. The only way to do crypto is to do crypto. And you can read a book about it. I came in because I was trading and I wanted dollars. And then I eventually was like, wait, this stuff's actually pretty interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:20 And then I got fully orange-pilled in my entire life now is talking about. So I think anecdotally that that's probably what happens to a lot of these people. And that's why I'm not, like, concerned. Yeah, so, yes, we'll lose hedge funds. A lot of these market-neutral funds that, you know, see, you know, 20%, 30%, 40% drawdowns or more. Yeah, those guys probably don't make it out. But I think there'll be so many that will come in on the heels of that. You know, I was talking to a large traditional custodian the other day,

Starting point is 00:27:54 and they're like, we have $15 trillion. Think about that. They've got more money than China's GDP. And they're like, we're getting in the game. Really. State Street, Airbnb.NY yeah big players we're we're we're here and so you're like okay that's a real number my concern as a trader is like if that spigot gets turned on where does all where does all that liquidity go

Starting point is 00:28:19 like because as much as you don't market cap's not big enough well that's the thing as much as you don't, as much as you don't like going from 60 to 30, you don't want to go from 30 to 300. Yeah, that's great, but that's not healthy. That's not healthy for people who are trying to build things that actually matter, like that are going to change the way we do personal finance, professional finance. Like, a little muted volatility. Let's keep this. Let us build a little more before let's let's keep this let us build a little more before you turn the spigot out i love that you casually said in passing like trading for pensions right because the the the grand question still remains whether it means a spot etf what gets this endowments the pensions this sort of instant the real big flood of money and it sounds

Starting point is 00:29:02 like uh they're already touching it. Yeah, the camel's nose is under the tent. And when does that come in, right? They're already here. I mean, they've been here. It was tangential. It was, hey, I'm invested in this fund, and this fund has exposure to crypto, so tell me about crypto.

Starting point is 00:29:22 And then as they learn and they become educated,'re like oh this is actually interesting I have a view on inflation or monetary policy or or you know so on and this actually is the purest way to make that that play let me let me get in how do I get it and then they have to go back to their boards and go through them and four years later we've gone through the risk management like Yes. It's like I'm one approval away, and meanwhile, you know, I'm walking out of Shady Acres with my walker. That's great, Tom. I'm glad to see you finally got it done.

Starting point is 00:29:53 But it's, you know, that's part of it. So you have to be patient, you know, and it's going to happen. Like I said, you can't stand in the way of progress. You can't stand in the way of freedom. You can't stand in the way of you can't you can't stand in the way of progress. You can't stand in the way of freedom. You can't stand in the way of love and you can't stand in the way of progress. It is going to happen. Progress is going to happen. I don't think there's any better way to end this than that. I absolutely love the conversation. Awesome. Great. Thanks so much. I'm actually here just to see you go scootering to your next generation. They got some they got some pictures of me on a

Starting point is 00:30:26 scooter and I can already see it. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you haven't already left a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please do that now. Spotify just added ratings, so please go ahead and click that five star. I'll see you guys next time.

The Wolf Of All Streets - Putting All Of Your Money Into Crypto | Jason Urban, Co-Head Of Trading, Galaxy Digital

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