The Wolf Of All Streets - SBF Is F*cked! JPMorgan Goes All In Crypto l Friday Five

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

Friday Five is THE show about the main news in crypto. Join me and Nathaniel Whittemore as we delve into the main topics that moved the markets.  Nathaniel Whittemore: https://twitter.com/nlw ►�...� JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/   ►►OKX Sign up for an OKX Trading Account then deposit & trade to unlock mystery box rewards of up to $60,000!  👉 https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER  ►►THE DAILY CLOSE BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS. 👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/   ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets   ►►COINROUTES TRADE SPOT & DERIVATIVES ACROSS CEFI AND DEFI USING YOUR OWN ACCOUNTS WITH THIS ADVANCED ALGORITHMIC PLATFORM. SAVE TONS OF MONEY ON TRADING FEES LIKE THE PROS! 👉 http://bit.ly/3ZXeYKd  Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #FridayFive The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 The revelations from the SBF trial, especially from the testimony of Carolyn Ellison, have been absolutely insane, crazy, nut house level bananas. And so as much as we tried not to talk about it, it really is the most compelling story of the week. We also, of course, have JP Morgan seemingly going all in quietly on blockchain technology, while Jamie Dimon still has his negative feelings about the asset class. We have ARK refiling for their ETF. We have Hamas using cryptocurrency for terrorist funding, and of course, Bitfinex looking to buy back, and an honorable mention. But of course, today it's NLW and I, Nathaniel Whittemore, doing your Friday Five, reviewing the top five stories of the week. It's becoming my
Starting point is 00:00:44 favorite day of the week. Can't becoming my favorite day of the week. Can't wait to share this with you guys. Let's go. Everybody, I'm Scott Melker, also known as the Wolf of Wall Street. Before we get started, Let's go. And NLW man, how are you today? I am good. I'm having a great week, better than a lot of the weeks of people we're going to talk about today. I'll tell you that. For sure. I don't think Sam's having a great week. And there's someone else we have to give an honorable mention to who's finally having
Starting point is 00:01:35 a bad week. And that, of course, is Steve Ehrlich from Voyager Digital. You guys may not have seen this, but he's being sued by the CFTC for fraud, for neglect, negligence of customer assets, for lying about FDIC insurance, for taking risky bets, while saying that customers' assets were safe and they were only taking safe bets. He told this to me personally via text message and phone and on interviews almost until the last day. I was unable to withdraw crypto, unlike everyone else who could have gotten their assets out because Voyager had done me a favor and put protection on my account that they refused
Starting point is 00:02:14 to lift for two months that I asked them to when I saw problems with Celsius. I have a personal feeling about this, but I think the worst part, and Nathaniel, maybe as someone who's slightly outside the situation, give me some perspective. But the worst part is that everybody knows that Voyager declared bankruptcy to protect the executives from criminal charges, right? It was pretty clear at the time, they could have just liquidated the assets, we would have gotten roughly 75 cents on the dollar, but instead to protect themselves from suits that had already been filed. So those would be erased and suits they knew were coming. Every insider knows this. They decided to declare bankruptcy. We ended up getting back 35% of the assets, but really 24% of the value on the day
Starting point is 00:02:54 that it happened. This is a civil charge, of course. So he still is criminally protected, but to see him get in trouble anyways, after doing all of that to us just to protect himself gives me extreme mixed emotions. I mean, how do you view this as like, I guess, a third party who was not luckily a creditor to Voyager? Yeah. So a couple of things. One is I think that this is going to get us nicely into, I think, the SPF case as well.
Starting point is 00:03:18 Um, the consequences for this set of executives is incredibly important for the evolution of this industry, right? And I think that the mixed emotion of it probably should have been worse, but at least there is this set of actions which could result in not just penalties financially and things like that, but real prohibitions on what this person is able to do in markets in the future is important. I think that for a little while, and this is sort of, again, a preview of what I'll say about SPF too, for a little while, I think that the crypto industry is going to have to just deal with the fact that there is more evidence that it's just sort of full of scams and frauds like the critics have always claimed.
Starting point is 00:04:13 But in the long run, what these cases are actually serving to point out is that it's not just the industry being inherently or a priori dirty. It's specific people making specific decisions to lie, to commit fraud, to change balance sheets, to do things that regardless of the industry would be fraudulent, would be criminal. And ultimately in the long run, especially as a new wave of actors comes in, both from the traditional financial sector and a new class of entrepreneurs who are going to specifically, I think, position themselves as the opposite of this generation of folks, it will be important that we have on record that what happened was specific instances of fraud and criminal behavior, not just that's what happens in crypto. It will also be really important as a deterrent for future actors who come in to realize that
Starting point is 00:05:03 there is punishment for these actions, even if it's in the unregulated wild west of crypto. And I think that that's a very important part because we've seen Mashinsky, we've seen SBF, of course, maybe BlockFi, we haven't seen anything yet. I don't know if there's anything to see there, but it is nice at least to see this in the press and that people don't see Ehrlich completely skate by as if nothing happened and there was no dereliction of duty here. What's crazy is the guy hasn't spoken a word since any of it happened. And he had a statement today.
Starting point is 00:05:32 The talented management team at Voyager created and maintained our platform in full compliance with the existing regulatory structure. Our team consistently communicated and worked closely with our regulators when literally everybody knows that the risk management team was just left out of every decision. There's been reports of it,
Starting point is 00:05:48 that it was literally like Steve decides we need yield. We're going to go do this. It's Steve. Everyone said that. And so like, listen, his quote is the exact one that his lawyer would write up obviously and send out on a PR release. And then we won't hear anything else, but these people have to at least be punished in the court of public opinion. Even if it's not a huge fine or if he has no money or if he doesn't go to jail, people need to see this in the press. I mean, we saw how much of American politics, like the broad American politics was shaped by the lack of consequences for the financial industry in 2008. A huge part. You're
Starting point is 00:06:26 talking Operation Occupy Wall Street on one side. You're talking about the Tea Party on the other. This was a major, major impact because I think that many people who have a historical point of view will point to this as one of the single biggest failures of the Obama administration to not hold to account that group. So yes, it's brutal to live through right now, but it is an incredibly important exercise to actually dredge up and figure out who needs to be held to account for what happened in this space. Yeah, I can't really tell if it's cathartic or just makes me angry and triggers emotions again, but either way, I think it's a good thing. And that has to be our natural segue right here into what's happening at the Sam Bankman Freed Trial. producer. Never thought I would have a Wall Street Journal subscription again, but it is really great that they're just giving these constant updates on what's happening here. But nobody's better, probably, for giving the constant updates on what's happening here than you.
Starting point is 00:07:33 Yeah. Let me flip it around to you, though. I was thinking about this. I would love, same way you asked me for kind of outside context, I have a lot to share sort of that has a little bit of insider perspective. What's your big broad strokes impression of sort of this testimony this week from Caroline and where it leaves things? Well, to be clear, I don't think it's really anything new. I think that a lot of it aligns with the assumptions that we had of how things were going. There's been previous articles extensively about the misbehavior there, the alleged fraud and all the things that were going
Starting point is 00:08:06 on, but to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, is really impactful. And so the levels that they went to, to just work outside the system, to commit fraud, to lie to existing lenders, to lie to potential lenders, to lie to customers, it's very, very clear that this paints a picture of him as an outright criminal mastermind from day one. And it's impossible to even look at his effective altruism without looking through it that lens. It really seems like as kind of ADHD and Ritalin and Adderall dependent that he was and all over the place, that there was a very direct focus on a goal that he had,
Starting point is 00:08:50 and he was willing to do anything to do it. They kind of talk about his utilitarian side of it, and that he could lie and nobody else could because he had a goal. I just think from the outside, it's exceptionally clear this guy is guilty. He should go to jail forever, and they should throw every book they have at him to make sure that nobody tries this again. Yeah, I think that the story is getting unbelievably clear, right? And to your point, a lot of it is what sort of has started to become working assumptions from the crypto industry, but that has really been articulated now. So if we look at last week and Gary Wang, I think that the biggest impact on the jury from that testimony will be how early these sort of activities started, right? Gary being asked to code the sort of, you know, the ability to the negative accounts, you know, all the way back in July of 2019. Gary kind of walking through that, you know, first FTX was allowed to, or Alameda was allowed to withdraw up to FTX's revenue, which is $150 million.
Starting point is 00:09:52 And then that was increased to a billion. And then that was increased to infinite, right? 65 billion, that, that, that story, right? So that's the, we sort of got the dispassionate version of the story. That's just, here's how Sam directed this to be put into code, the use of customer money. What we got from Caroline this week is how explicit it was, how acknowledged it was that this was customer money, how she knew throughout. And it was, by all accounts, eating her psychologically that she knew that that was the only source of revenue. And so, you know, it was a hole that she was just directed to keep digging deeper and deeper and deeper. And I think that the sort of, you know, if Gary kind of gave the
Starting point is 00:10:39 timeline, what we got from Caroline's testimony was that, to use your word, Sam really was the mastermind determining this from day one. It seems very intentional that it was the four people, the three who have turned basically state's witness and Caroline, who knew what was going on, that Sam always called into these meetings. And Trabuco, I've got to be in there, man. I don't know where this guy is, but we can talk about that later. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I think that the, you know, so, so you sort of have, uh, uh,
Starting point is 00:11:09 a dispassionate set of behaviors that are articulated. Then you have sort of a lot of color about Sam, you know, I mean, listen, Sam's, uh, the, the argument that he didn't know what was going on was completely blown out of the water this week. And I think that the additional layer is we really started to get some worldview kind of color that I think will help jurors explain or understand how this could be. Caroline explained something that had widely been my assumption, which was sort of an ends justifies the means kind of thing that Sam held himself as fundamentally separate from the rest of the world. This is sort of the biggest, angriest moment in the podcast that I did right after the whole thing went down,
Starting point is 00:11:57 where I kind of imagined Sam sitting there, even now, as he had been caught thinking the rest of the world was just too stupid to take power the way that he knew how, rather than all of us understanding that every day we're confronted with these decisions where we can do the right thing or do the wrong thing. And we decide not because the right thing is easier to do the fucking right thing. And I think that that's really what was articulated as part of this as well, that he just didn't believe in the conception of lying or fraud. There was no such thing. It was all just, would it be a positive expected value calculation on his ability to impact things? He was willing to play the most serious game and it exploded. And this is one of the possible outcomes. So now he's got to kind of live in it. And I still believe he thinks he's innocent, to be quite honest. And one point that you made is that Carolyn really blew a hole in the idea that he was not the mastermind, right? He's saying it was her fault, pointing fingers everywhere else.
Starting point is 00:12:55 What it also blows a hole in is the idea that it was a small hole, that maybe it was a small mistake. And then they just sort of tried to fill it and it got worse and worse and oh, woe is me. That's actually to some degree what I believe happened with Voyager. I think Steve Ehrlich, and he talked about it even in the past, we offering 9% to our customers. Well, then Doge got popular, a million people signed up in a day and we had to find a way to give a million, now 2 million people, 9%. And that sent us further down the risk curve. And the further down the risk curve you go, obviously the bigger chance there is that you're going to blow
Starting point is 00:13:27 up. Victims of their own success, either the customers leave or you have to go further down the risk curve to offer that yield. So maybe in a situation like that, it was a snowball going downhill that just got bigger and bigger and bigger. This was 2019 before even the bull market for SBF where he's put these systems in place. This wasn't like, oh, we blew up with Luna. What are we going to do? And started committing fraud to fill the hole. This was a fraud from the very beginning.
Starting point is 00:13:52 It was a criminal enterprise set up to be that way. I think that when the dust settles, what will be clear is that it turns out that for Sam, it was Alameda all along. Alameda was his personal fiefdom. It was his big financial power vehicle to do whatever he wanted to do, an opaque set of accounts that he could direct to politicians, to investments, to whatever. And even ultimately, as big as FTX got, it was still a subsidiary in his mind of Alameda, which was his personal power bank. It was the piggy bank for his power bank. And that's why he never even considered. It was just a play to get customers to unknowingly fund
Starting point is 00:14:38 his various world-changing ventures. I put that in serious air quotes there. Yeah. I know we have other stories to get to, but it's hard not to continue to talk this to death. I mean, there's some incredible highlights. SPF tried Thai sex worker wallets to unlock frozen funds before bribing Chinese officials. He ended up bribing Chinese officials to get OKEx and Huobi accounts open that were frozen. I mean, there was literally no length this guy would stop at to avoid doing what he wanted, to your point. I mean, it's really crazy. He tried to go to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and lie to them about an investment. Can you imagine? Yeah, we haven't even...
Starting point is 00:15:21 Saudi Arabia invested and then found out about this? Yeah, MBS doesn't exactly have the cleanest record of people who double-crossed him. I don't know if that's the highest expected value calculation, Sam. No. No, I mean, what were the most... To you, what were the most astounding revelations here? Was there anything like this? I mean, these are small details, of course, Ty Sexworker makes for a good headline. But were there things here that even you were like, wow.
Starting point is 00:15:47 I think that the brazenness, I mean, the utter brazenness that like, so there was a, so John Ray in Michael Lewis's book, Lewis focuses on him very, he's more critical of John Ray than he is of Sam, which is part of the reason people are so frustrated. But one of the things that John Ray said in that book is that there are kind of criminals who are born and criminals who are made, you know, and I think that what's interesting, and this sort of is what you're saying, you were just painting a picture where for a lot of these institutions, they maybe just got in over their head, they made a stupid set of decisions that had sort of, you know, a cascade of impacts that they were caught up in their own, you know, problems. And that's sort of a cascade of impacts that they were caught up in their own problems. And that's
Starting point is 00:16:25 sort of how it went down versus I set out to acquire... The fact that he was explicitly trying to get Binance targeted so that their customer... He was trying to use the US government to shake down Binance for FTX's benefit. By the way, that ended ended up we haven't talked about how that ended up being the single thing that ultimately brought him down you know it's become not popular to talk about this fact because obviously in the wake of you know sam and cz like cz set the train in motion when he sent that tweet about ftt let's not deny it they were playing a very serious game of who's got a bigger billionaire D that they can throw around. And CZ bitch slapped Sam into the next century. And it was because very clearly Sam had been running his mouth all over DC trying to use that very inelegantly.
Starting point is 00:17:19 Sam was a two-bit mafia wannabe, basically. So I think that the brazenness really shows up. The Chinese official bribe is another area where it is not a normal behavior for a kid who's in his first CEO ship within about a year of doing it to be willing to bribe Chinese officials. That is born criminal, to use John Williams' word. Arguably American ones as well, but we don't need to go there. James Murphy met a lawman yesterday, was on the show, and we're going to keep talking about this. We'll cook through the other stories in a minute. But pointing out yesterday that the buyout of CZ from FTX was with customer funds and theoretically could be for a massive clawback, right? Well, that's a whole thing, another
Starting point is 00:18:02 dimension of this story, which is extremely problematic for other parts of this industry. Let's segue to the other parts of the industry implications. That's a big one, right? Is what the estate is going to do vis-a-vis that sort of Binance thing. Now, Binance is so on the ropes vis-a-vis the US. Who knows how that'll happen? But the other one is there are now big questions or people starting to ask questions about how much Genesis knew when, right? And what that relationship looked like, because, you know, very prominently, part of the most damning testimony from Caroline was that Sam very clearly knew to authorize, you know, to pay back Genesis with customer funds, which creates a clawback situation for them, which doesn't seem that there's any possible way that DCG could handle if that comes
Starting point is 00:18:49 this way. Yeah. And she created seven fake balance sheets to show to everyone, which in and of itself, we're flipping away for virtually ever. I mean, this is a crazy part of the story that the balance sheet that triggered the whole thing, right? Like I said, CZ threw it down the mountain with his FTT tweet, but it was started with the Coindesk report. That was the sanguinized of the seven choices of balance sheets. The one that they had cooked that was the least damning was the one that still damned them in the end. It's insane. A fake balance sheet was enough to cause a complete cascade and death of FTX. Imagine if we had seen the real one. Obviously, we can't even imagine. One question that I have, I guess, last before we move on to level two,
Starting point is 00:19:37 do you think that we'll see any of the politicians brought up in this trial, Gary Gensler, Maxine Waters, et cetera. I don't think so because the prosecution has no interest in doing that and they've got him buried. Yeah. So, so, so exactly. So there's, there's a couple of reasons why we won't. One is that two, when you go after, ultimately this, the SDNY is not putting Congress on trial right now, even if they'd like to. And when you go after that type of target, you have to have it dead to rights. And I don't believe, I believe that there's probably a lot of messages out there where Sam was sort of intimating bribes or, you know, but I would be very surprised if there was actual sort of full on like Chinese official bribery behavior yet. Now, give him one.
Starting point is 00:20:23 You just gave him donations. You can do that much easier here. Give him one more election cycle. And I mean, listen, even when it happened, I think to the extent that we want to find some solace in this situation, the amount of power that Sam was able to accrue in about 18 to 24 months coming from zero, from a standing start, is so unbelievable relative to anything we've seen, basically, in modern history, that the horror of imagining him being able to accumulate power for three or four more years before being found out, one, another crypto cycle probably would have cleaned up the balance sheet, but it would have made FTX able to handle things. It would have gone through that sort of like, oh, yeah, they were bad in the past, but they were able to kind of clean it up. So I don't know. If we could take any solace to the
Starting point is 00:21:09 fact that every day that it would have gone on longer would have been much potentially worse for the world. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the final thing before we move on, how much impact do you think it had on the last market cycle as far as the price of the assets? We saw a revelation that he had told Caroline to keep Bitcoin under $20,000. I kind of reread that. I don't think that's really what he was saying. I think he was saying keep selling above $20,000. Exactly.
Starting point is 00:21:37 So I don't think that he was purposely manipulating the price as maybe you've seen on X. But do you think that this behavior and FTT being in the market and all of the VC activity they did with FTX customer funds dramatically impacted the structure of the last cycle? 100%. Absolutely. I mean, you've even seen post the collapse of FTX, how much more organic market movements have looked, right? I mean, it took out this force where even without the intention to go explicitly manipulate market prices, which frankly, if we got Sam Tribucco's testimony, I would be very surprised if there wasn't some amount of actual straight up market manipulation attempts. But I think that the lack of that presence has certainly made things a heck of a lot more organic than they were before. Okay. We're going to end up talking about this next week, I'm sure again. So let's
Starting point is 00:22:29 just keep moving on. JP Morgan debuts blockchain collateral system in BlackRock Barclays Trade. You guys may have heard about JP Morgan Onyx. It's effectively their private blockchain that they're using to tokenize assets, which will be able to be used as collateral, but also to then send them from place to place, as we know is one of the best use cases of crypto. Here we go. JP Morgan's tokenized collateral network, or TCN, was used by BlackRock to turn shares in one of its money market funds into digital tokens, which were then transferred to Barclays PLC as collateral for an over-the-counter derivatives trade between the two institutions. Tyrone Bowman, the head of Onyx Digital Assets at JP Morgan, said in an interview, and then just as a corollary to jump into it, First Abu Dhabi Bank completes cross
Starting point is 00:23:09 border payments testing on JPMorgan Onyx. So that's a pilot that they were doing. We now have two huge examples of two massive institutional actors utilizing this Onyx platform to tokenize things to make for a faster, more efficient transfer, and then in the future, to be able to use those as collateral. How big is this? And is this actually crypto? Or is it just blockchain? Is it just a private ledger? Is it just a database that we'll never see? Yeah, kind of both in my estimation. It's big, but in ways that are different than what people think. I think people have a tendency to say, institution X doing a thing that vaguely looks like crypto is good for markets. And I don't think it's quite that simple. What it shows is that this set of traditional financial actors are very serious about tokenization. I think
Starting point is 00:23:55 personally, that this set of people have finally grokked that it is just almost impossible to imagine a future in which basically every financial asset isn't tokenized because of the value that it offers in terms of new types of derivative products, speed of settlement, like all of these things. Now, what that creates isn't really sort of necessarily huge momentum towards crypto assets as we think of them. What it creates is lots of interesting new opportunities with traditional assets, right? I think that what we will find is that ultimately real world assets aren't so much a crypto trend as much as the place where crypto and TradFi fully blend into some hybrid new thing that is just both of them, right? But I do think that it shows how serious, intentional, and diligent these institutions are about this, right? Tokenization of real world assets is massively
Starting point is 00:24:41 more complex than I think the average Twitter user gives it credit for. It does take this sort of immense amount of effort and time. And anyone who's, I mean, I'm sure you've had a tie on your show before. These are people who are very serious and who are going to be sort of diligent about taking the steps. Now, the other interesting dimension of it, though, is that the BlackRock involvement, part of what made BlackRock's reentrance into this space so notable earlier this year is the way that Larry Fink blew apart the Bitcoin versus
Starting point is 00:25:13 blockchain kind of argument. He kept trying to be pinned down on that with interviewers right after, and he basically said both, you idiots. He talked reverentially about why Bitcoin was a unique and differentiated asset, but he also talked about how valuable tokenization of real world assets is going to be. And I think that this is sort of, it's big because we are heading into a world where there's not necessarily either this sort of big either or between these things. And I think that that does accrue benefits to even the traditional kind of crypto asset space, even though this isn't really about that. I think there are countless examples in history of large corporations becoming too big and not being able to pivot when disruption came, right? The blockbusters and Kodaks and Sears Robux of the world that were the biggest companies of their time, but were never able to catch up with new technology. I think that a lot of these large institutions have learned from that example and are disrupting themselves before they get disrupted. JP Morgan may not even believe that this will be the future, but if it is, they're going to be there and ready, much like companies like PayPal
Starting point is 00:26:19 creating a stable coin that disrupts their own business. You don't want to be the dinosaur that has no plan for this when the time comes. So I would love to say that JP Morgan believes that all real world assets will be tokenized. Maybe they do. But I definitely believe that they think if all real world assets get tokenized, we're going to be the ones to benefit from this. And I think that you could use some of what the same argument even for a BlackRock Bitcoin ETF to some degree. And all these large companies are looking to disrupt. Why would Coinbase launch a decentralized layer two to disrupt their own business, right? It just makes sense at this point.
Starting point is 00:26:53 Yep. Completely agree. Yeah. The next story we have is a disturbing one, obviously. Hamas has raised millions in crypto donations. There's a whole article on how they've utilized it. I can't tell if this is hyperbole, if this is a big problem, but of course, we've already seen Elizabeth Warren utilizing this
Starting point is 00:27:11 as a talking point this week. I think we all know that if there's a technology that's somewhat agnostic, it's going to be used by good and bad actors. You can't really determine who's going to use it and for what purpose. Much like if Hamas is making calls on iPhones, you don't necessarily blame Apple or go after them. But this is definitely a problem that terrorists are able to utilize funds raised through cryptocurrency to go through with their terrorist actions. What do you make of this? I don't even think it's really contrarian, it's just slightly different take on all of this is, it's very easy to dismiss it and say, we have it, how much US cash do they use, right? What about the suitcase of cash from Qatar, you know, going through Egypt's borders? It's not that those things aren't true, but it's kind of not the important part as relates to the crypto industry side of the story. What is important about the crypto industry side of the story is things like the fact that Hamas stopped publicizing addresses to take donations earlier in the year because they were concerned about how it made it easy to target the people who were funding them. I actually think, and this is that sort of weird opinion, that as Yeah. of this story and understand that it's more complex than just crypto equals bad guys get funding is probably net good for crypto in the sense of it having to go through this
Starting point is 00:28:50 phase. We need policymakers to understand the potential for these organizations to use this, but then why some of them are not. And as much as it's going to make great headlines for Elizabeth Warren to scream about her bills, there are a lot of really serious people in Congress, almost in spite of themselves, who are going to maybe have more of a context to address this, but probably come out with something better than what she's trying to pose. So I kind of think, look, this is an absolutely horrifying moment. To the extent that crypto is using it, we need to reckon with that and understand that it's a part of this, this, the ecosystem, a part of the
Starting point is 00:29:25 capacity of these tools, you know, you don't, you don't get people who are living under oppressive regimes, getting to use these tools to get out of their oppressive regimes without people that you don't like using them as well. And there are a lot of really painful trade-offs that we have to discuss and, and, you know, deal with head on. So my feeling is let's deal with it head on. And, you know, once the hyperbole kind of dies down, it's an important part of the conversation. To your point, to be clear, Hamas arm wing announced a suspension of Bitcoin fundraising that was from last April. And then of course, we know that Binance, other exchanges have been working with the Israeli governments
Starting point is 00:30:00 and very rapidly freezing all of these Hamas accounts. But that doesn't make it right. But as you said, and we also know, I mean, look at Lazarus Group in North Korea, right? I mean, North Korea seems like their singular source of funding is hacking and exploits in crypto. So it's a problem, but I think one that will be solved. And as someone just absolutely put in the comments, that's a human problem, not a crypto problem. I tend to agree with that. The next story we have here, Cathie Wood's ARK refiles Bitcoin ETF. Here's what's new, what is new about this. Basically, the revised submission from ARK now includes risks of a change to Bitcoin's
Starting point is 00:30:38 code. That was a head scratcher for me, as well as how its custodians will handle assets. Can you tell us what's different here and why they decided to refile? Yeah. So this is a really baby little subtle procedural thing that is potentially significant. So basically, as part of these applications, one step is the SEC looking at the applications and saying, what about this? What about this? What about this? Can you clarify this? Can you clarify that? That is just part of the process. This refiled application appears to be an answer to potential SEC inquiries. We don't know that for sure, but it certainly looks like it. All the evidence points to that. I think that they deal with
Starting point is 00:31:14 climate implications at one point, for example, as well. It just sounds like the type of question the SEC would have asked. Now, the reason that some people are viewing this as sort of potentially slightly positive is that it seems like addressable questions and the SEC actually engaging with you know, the set of sort of like discrete, specific, answerable questions as part of the process, that's a different level of engagement. It doesn't mean that we're in for sort of an immediate approval. But it means that instead of just sort of sitting on these things until they deny them, there's actually some amount of engagement, which could be, you know, kind of lightly positive, let's call it. Exactly. This isn't just a blind kick the can down the road. They're actually asking questions and we'll take whatever red meat we can get.
Starting point is 00:32:10 And if it's them asking questions, then we'll certainly skim that as a positive, which I think it is. Our final story, Bitfinex crypto exchange owner makes 150 million share buyback offer to hack victims. Why does this matter? I have no idea. This is the most confusing story of the week. It is absolute catnip for the Tether truthers, but also I don't think that it
Starting point is 00:32:34 makes a ton of sense to anyone else. I think that the big thing that people are head scratching about here is it had been widely viewed that Bitfinex and Tether had just the sort of the same ownership structure. They're now saying that it's not the same ownership structure, it's just they share owners. And so that's kind of this interesting new detail that people are trying to parse out. But it's sort of like, anytime anything moves with Tether and Bitfinex, it's worthy of scrutiny and just that sort of eyebrow raised what might be going on there, even if you're not coming to it from the standpoint of sort of assuredness that this is all one big scam or anything like that.
Starting point is 00:33:16 I've seen so many, I'll call them bad, takes from people on Twitter about the SPF trial and how inevitably he's going to implicate Tether and it's going to be the end of tether and tether is dead because Alameda was their biggest client and all of this. And it's just a half a decade of this. When does it stop? Listen, let's put it this way. If,
Starting point is 00:33:39 and there's a huge, if this is not me accusing anyone of anything, if tether are the criminals that the tether critics have accused them of being, they are much, much, much better at it than Sam was. And I don't think that there's really likely any chance that he has sort of so many goods that he can get himself out of this. But who knows? I think Tether's balance sheets are pretty clear and they're making a lot of money. It seems that those high interest rates have helped somebody and their name is definitely Tether. Yeah, I think we covered that exceptionally well today. And I love the nuance and depth of the
Starting point is 00:34:19 coverage of the SBF trial, which early in the week, I was like, I'm not talking about SBF this week. It's just too tasty, man. Yeah. Unfortunately, we kind of have to, and maybe to just sort of circle up and close out on the point that we started with. Listen, if you are any human being who is coming into this completely unbiased and asked to watch this trial and determine whether the crypto industry was a priori dirty and something about the code base that it was run on made it dirty, or whether a specific criminal person made specific criminal decisions, it's very clear which of those it is. And again, as juicy and as lurid as it is, humans have liked watching that forever. But the reality is that
Starting point is 00:35:05 what's gone on trial is really not the crypto industry. It's Sam's unbelievable callousness and lack of interest in any convention of normal human society. Listen, if this guy had stayed at Drain Street, you got to think that he would have found every exploitable loophole. There would have been a different grift somewhere for him to accumulate wealth and power as fast as he could. It just wouldn't have been this one. I think that's the perfect way to wrap it up. Guys, everybody follow NLW, of course, on Twitter and check out the breakdown, which you can do on his audio and video channels where you can also see this. Also, I want to give a huge shout out. I saw you guys talking about it in the beginning to our producer, Misha and his team for the amazing new thumbnails, which have been super
Starting point is 00:35:48 entertaining. And I see you guys claiming that they're AI. They are not. We have an actual human person that does these every single day. And while I don't think they make more people watch the show, I think they're just awesome. And they align well sort of with the content that we have. So huge shout out to them. They're absolutely amazing. Daniel Mann, thank you very much. I will see you next week and see you guys on Monday. Peace.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.