The Wolf Of All Streets - SEC Approves First Hybrid BTC ETH ETF | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

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We have our two-man crack team of legal experts today of Fred and Carlo. We got to get a lawyer and some others up here, but we have some nonsense at the SEC that I want to talk to you guys about. So obviously, we have the title here. SEC approves first hybrid Bitcoin ETH ETF. That's cool. Great. Wonderful. We also have the news that gets Dave Weisberger going

that Carolyn Crenshaw is not going to be reconfirmed. But at the same time, apparently Crypto Kongs, whatever the hell that is, NFT project, has received a Wells notice from the SEC, which seems like Gary Gensler, like on his way being pushed out the door is like trying to throw grenades back into the room or something or cyber kong more and more apparently like cyber kong crypto crypto cats kong kong kong kong kongs

i literally don't care a crypto crypto kitties uh no what's it called congo, Congo, cats, cat tongues. Yeah, whatever I said, there's a well of notice. It just feels cyber Kong's feels completely. Oh, there's Preston. See, look, guys, the whole legal team. Yes, it is called cyber Kong's and they received a well. Well's notice from the SEC. We all know that historically most well's notices are an indication that there may be action coming from the SEC. We all know that historically most Wells notices are an indication that there may be action coming from the SEC. But this is just so dumb that the SEC here in December before a new administration comes in and obviously a crypto-friendly administration

is just firing off Wells notices that probably won't see follow through. I mean, Carlo, I butchered the name and you corrected me. So you get to go first. I mean, it's ridiculous. It is ridiculous. It is anti-climatic because I think it's not going to go anywhere once the new administration takes, and we have a new SEC head. I think it's sour grapes as Gensler exits. It's petty. It's somewhat vindictive. And I think it's a waste of government resources to even pursue this. Yeah, I mean, they kind of said cybercomics has received a well-known from the SEC.

We are extremely disappointed at the approach the SEC has taken towards us. We're going to stand up and fight for a brighter future that holds more clarity for NFT projects. I mean, it seems like they can just wait a little while, right? I mean, most likely. They're not going to really have to fight this, assuming this is not at the top of the docket with a fresh SEC. And we've actually, I believe, in the past few months for the first time, we've seen some of these Wells notices not end up with enforcement actions even before we had the election. Well, we know that the current approach from the crypto sector in response to these Wells notices is to dig in and fight and tell the SEC we're not going to roll over. So, OK, bring bring the fight and now this is an instance of

where if I'm advising a project like that I'm telling them to run out the clock uh you know make a response if you want you do have the right to respond to the well's notice but uh I think respond aggressively and just run out the clock because I just don't see in any practical sense unless you're talking about instances of fraud, clear evidence of violations of fraud statutes and potential criminality. I don't see these having any teeth, these Wells notices that are coming out last minute like this. I didn't bother to read it because just, you know, it's on my do not care list. But what were the allegations

here that could potentially have led to enforcement action? You know, I don't know, I can only speculate. I don't think I've had a chance to see the Wells notice either. But I do remember that they did drop a banana token back in the day. And that might be they may be making a case that they launched an unregistered security, the typical stuff that we see. It's just interesting that they target an NFT project that is from the 2021 boom that has kind of been under the radar. There are so many NFT projects out there. It's so arbitrary the way they pick these companies and these projects that they want to go after. And it just kind of reinforces to me, Scott, why it's been so hard to advise clients in this space and why it's been so hard to build anything meaningful in the United States in this sector, because

you're basically just playing a game of Russian roulette where the SEC spins the chamber, and if your token comes up, you get a Wells notice. And if not, you potentially have a successful project. And that's just no way to do business. So I have been doing some in-depth research in the last 15 seconds. And it would appear that they launched a token called the Yield Banana. And the Yield Banana was issued. Each Genesis Kong, which I assume is one of their NFTs, produces 10 Yield Banana every day until March 18th, 2031. And if I had to guess what the SEC had a problem with, my guess would be it was that. So just a hunch. Yield banana zone. Raoul Pal, I'm pointing it before he can get to the yield

banana zone. But here's what CyberCon said. It had been suffering in silence for the past two years when the SEC first contacted them. So actually, this has been kind of in the works for a while. The NFT collections at the SEC's enforcement team brought up a very concerning rhetoric that you cannot have a token in tandem with a blockchain game without registering it as a security. So there you go, Preston. See, this is what happens when I do my research after nine minutes into the show. But I appreciate you helping me there. So either way, very unlikely that this... I mean, Preston, do you think this comes to fruition? I mean, is this enough that it could, you know, sort of carry through to the next

administration and they would see this as problematic? Well, they need a commission vote before they actually brought an enforcement action. I'm not sure whether that's occurred or not yet. So I'm not over, I should be more familiar with that process, but I'm not, but they need a full vote of the commission. And presumably there would be dissents. I think that give, particularly given that Commissioner Crenshaw is going to be out there. So she, her term, it looks like is not going to be renewed. You know, the, the SEC is going to be stocked, stacked with pro crypto people. And my guess is there's going to be a hiatus where they wait uh and see what what congress does regarding market structure

regulation and things like that and then that kind of just rebases resets uh the commission's approach i mean it's entirely possible that under the new administration the sec could lose jurisdiction over crypto completely um and it could just go over to the CFTC. So we don't know. Again, of course, they could bring enforcement actions. I just I don't think there's going to be a lot of institutional pressure to do that in that organization in the immediate six months. Also, big day for crypto legal events. More breaking news. Hayley Welch, the hawk to a viral celebrity, responded. Her meme that launched recently, her meme token that was regarded as a pump and dump, resulted in a lawsuit that was filed yesterday. And the lawsuit was filed against the team, but Hayaley was not listed as a defendant in the lawsuit.

I actually gave a quote to Decrypt about this lawsuit yesterday, and I mentioned that Haley may wake up now that this lawsuit has dropped, and it was curious to me, Scott, that she wasn't listed as a defendant in the lawsuit, and it made me wonder whether she may not have been as much of an insider in this and profited to the extent that people think. And then lo and behold, she well, lo and behold, she released a tweet today saying that she's working with the law firm that is initiating the lawsuit and cooperating. Yes, she's probably going to see an interesting development. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's you know, she's definitely lined up. She's definitely got exposure. But it's interesting that she's lined up with the lawsuit, with the firm that's initiating this lawsuit on behalf of the plaintiffs. I mean, I think it's fair to assume that in the cases of a celebrity like her, God, the pain of having to say those words together.

But a celebrity like this who's not crypto savvy probably has no history in crypto at all. Can we just call her an influencer? She is not a celebrity no she's she's a celebrity she's put on a thing but um you know and that's that makes you a celebrity now have you ever seen uh the entire Kardashian uh Empire where'd that start um anyways but uh from spitting on it yeah a different thing yeah um presumably could be the same one I don't know I've never done my research. But either way, you have to assume that somebody who knows how to pump and dump meme coins contacted her, sold her a fake bill of goods, said, we're going to put your face on this. You go out and do a spaces or two and you're going to make a ton of money.

And I would I would assume that she's not savvy enough to have scammed people and that she herself basically got scammed and it's her face that was on it. But I mean, is that kind of what you're alluding to there, Carla? I mean, that's gotta be the way this went. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly the point. And it's, it just, it reinforces, look, I agree with you. Celebrity is a very loosely defined term now, but if you are able to get something to go viral on the internet, I mean, she's been invited to throw a pitch at a Mets game. She's been on all manner of talk shows and podcasts. I mean, she's achieved somewhat of a celebrity status over this viral video. And somebody took advantage of that, it looks like, capitalized on her celebrity. She jumped in and started to post about how

interested she was in crypto and Bitcoin and so forth. Obviously, well over her skis, did not understand. Probably got hooked up with a team of devs who persuaded her that this could be good for her brand. And she did not understand the nuances of how the token launch was executed and the potential insider tokens that were held and the dump and so forth. And now she's on the other side of it. And her brand has been completely and I understand we use the term loosely brand. But there's definitely value in what she's accomplished as far as exposure, and she could have done a lot with it. But now this failed launch, and this lawsuit has done irreparable damage to her brand and her reputation.

And that's the hard lesson that a lot of these people that are quote unquote celebrities are learning. You put your name behind something like this. It comes with consequences, not only financially, legally, but also to the to your name and your reputation. Yeah, it's so funny to talk about her name and reputation in this manner. But I think you're right. reputation yeah it's so funny to talk about her name and reputation in this manner but i think you're right but that said i think this is forgotten in a week by anyone who for some reason follows her and is outside of crypto like i think that this seems like her reputation is tarnished with a bunch of uh crypto trading you know meme trading crypto guys but like does the

rest of the world even know that this is happening? It was just one of those things that, uh, so sort of unique to our deck echo chamber. I don't know, but I think she's going to survive, uh, to whatever degree she was going to before. This is a tale of the oldest time though. I mean, I think it was last cycle, but remember Lindsay Lohan and Neo and all these people like got in trouble for pushing Tron. I think, is that right? Does anybody remember this? They were all tweeting about, uh, tron and gotten some some heat we've had a lot of celebrities have their names used or you

know their teams tweets yeah robbie you're giving me the hundred it was lindsay lohan right i i think it was and yes yeah no it was definitely yeah Yeah, and presumably in those same cases, whoever controlled their social media was told by their team to tweet something that they had gotten paid for and the person probably didn't even know. I also have serious doubts that Kim Kardashian took her time to post Ethereum Max herself

on her Instagram account, which she got in trouble for. Go ahead, Donish, did you lift your mic? I was just going to say, ultimately that has not changed the fact that they are pushing things that don't work and they're doing pump and dumps and we actually don't know whether Ailey Welch actually made money from this.

Right? Like we actually don't know if she did. So I don't want to like discount what happened. She probably was taken advantage of, but we actually don't know if she was. So do you want to like discount what happened she probably was taken advantage of but we actually don't know if she was so yeah do you want to keep your mind open that she could have made a ton of money yeah you know let's not automatically assume that the person that's never done crypto before doesn't know how to steal money right like people people do know how to steal money quite quite well all i was gonna say is um it would not have been uh a uh a

bull run without one of these things happening so bravo to everybody we're in a bull cycle that's it this is how we know that's right this is not p uh this is not in the uh depths of a bear market behavior. It would have never worked. Yeah. But it is something we've seen over and over again. Fred, go ahead. Hey, good morning, everyone.

I just wanted to say on the two topics we've discussed. First on Haley, not only is she a celebrity, but she's a hero because I had a great marriage before she came out, but she's helped us take it to the next level. And so I think it's one of the greatest things we've ever had. And J.D. Vance is quite lucky that she's not of vice presidential age because there was a strong attempt to maybe draft her into the vice president position. But I did want to say more seriously on the SEC issue is that, you know, and Carlo and Preston had brought it up. She, the SEC was going after, or at least dealing with cyber Kongs from 2021. And it was just kind of sitting around. So what scares me is that

obviously means and you know, it's not just from from clients and potential clients I've talked to, there's a stack of these investigations that have been just sitting on the SEC's desk for the last two, three years. So this is obviously a small time or I think I don't actually know how well cyber Kongs did. But this seems like it's a small time issue or think I don't actually know how well cyberkongs did but this seems like it's a small time an issue or one of their investigations but are they going to start sending out their stack of notices enforcement actions all of this as they lead up into the transition you know Gary said he's staying in till the very end Dave's favorite commissioner is going to stay in obviously it looks like until the very end so they's favorite commissioner is going to stay in, obviously, it looks like until the very end. So they still have their three to a majority. And the fact is, is once they initiate

all these things and they get filed, you know, the key thing going forward is we're going to have a pro SEC or a pro crypto SEC coming in. But how much are they willing to go back and just eat certain enforcement actions that they've already filed? And what I mean by that is one of the most anti-crypto in-house lawyers they have, Jorge Show Me the Dinero Tenrero, just got promoted to a major litigation director at the SEC. And so there's a chain of command that, you know, has to happen for some of these cases to get withdrawn. Ultimately, it has to be an SEC vote, but how much is, are they going to, are they going to push the staff below the commissioner level, you know, like at the director of litigation level to say, okay, fold up shop on all these

cases that you filed. You can do it and it can be done. So that's not the question. It's just, I don't know how typical it is in past, you know, before crypto even came to be that you would start pulling back on some of these cases that are already filed or how easy that is or how easy it is to get some people that have burrowed their way in, you know, that aren't political level employee appointees out. So, out. So everything's still overall positive, but we'll have to see how that kind of development plays out going forward once all the right people are put in there. Dave. Dave. You always do it right when I leave the screen.

Sorry. Yeah. And you got that big yellow hand in front of your face. So it's not on me. Yeah, no, no, it's fine. Actually, let's get rid of the yellow hand in front of your face so it's not on me yeah yeah no no it's fine actually let's get rid of the yellow hand now that you call it um two things first to go back to i think the most interesting thing is going back to the the the title which is the hybrid uh etf uh i don't think people realize how big of a deal it is that the structure of a crypto index fund now as a as an etf is now approved uh and if you read you know when you when you read the various news articles about it

effectively is it what it basically means is as soon as the underlying are non securities, or are clearly defined, it sets the stage for crypto index funds. So you'll and that is a very big deal. So, you know, it's not just Bitcoin and ether, it's you know, you can have Bitcoin, you can have think about everything, you can have a deep in one game, it no matter what it is, it is a necessary step. The fact that they did it in this administration is actually kind of surprising, to be honest, because it gets rid of a road

block towards creating indexing in the crypto world in trad using the ETF TradFi rail. So yes, it's not something that's going to cause an immediate move in the markets. But it's a very big deal. I'm sure Matt Hogan is looking as chops and some some of your other contributors that come on here. But it's a very big deal. I'm sure Matt Hogan is looking as chops and some some of your other contributors that come on here. So that's thing one. The other thing is, is there was an interview, I guess someone sent me, I think Eric Valchunas posted it yesterday, I didn't

see exactly but where Hester purse was talking about the potential for in kind redemptions and staking for the Bitcoin ETF and staking for ethereum etfs and I just want to make a note that when that happens that's an enormously and that's going to happen by the way uh but the necessary precondition for that will be the newly reconstituted SEC calling off the dogs and telling finra they can approve broker-dealers uh to trade uh bitcoin on behalf of their customers or non-securities with a designation that's something that's been blocked the only broker dealer that's been allowed to touch crypto so far is promethium and we can go

down that rabbit hole people want to start laughing or joking about it of course you'll have to deal with the defamation lawsuit because that's all those guys have. But what that means is you were talking in your space this morning, your podcast this morning, Scott, about BlackRock's three minute video and how big of a deal. That is what would truly unleash all the financial advisors out there. So if that's what we're facing, that's kind of a big deal and people don't realize it but you know if you're trying to talk about what are going to be major drivers in the next quarter uh I think that's something that at you know after Paul Atkins is sworn in and you have a newly reconstituted SEC that's a big deal the last point I'll make not a lawyer but I do know how this stuff works the commission does have to vote on enforcement actions if it's go and there is literally zero probability that that i don't care who the guy

you know who you know in the enforcement if they can't prove fraud they're not going to get the commission to vote to support them so companies unless they have really bad counsel are not going to lay down in front of the sec anymore. And what does that mean? That means that that to be blunt, that if you're working in the SEC and you're wasting taxpayer money by doing things that have zero chance of ever coming to fruition, that Elon and Vivek are going to look like are going to basically be looking like the angel of death to axe your job because it's clearly exactly the opposite of cost benefit

analysis, justified. So, you know, look, I'm not going to put myself in the in the position of being one of these nut job, you know, anti crypto lawyers at the SEC that have been pursuing all these counterproductive cases over the last few years, but if they value their job, and they value their ability to earn a living, they're going to cease and desist uh it's actually kind of amazing that they haven't already i guess they they're people who are independently wealthy and don't need to continue to work

yeah um laughing uh yeah that that's a pretty funny comment there at the end so it's interesting we were talking about as you said d, myself and Nathaniel, like what the makeup of the next SEC will be. It's actually, I don't know if the lawyers have better takes on this, but Nathaniel was saying that the only rules are you have to have three commissioners of one party, but it's pretty vague as to what the other two have to be. No, it's not vague. It's not vague at all. There will be two Democrats and three Republicans. Of course. That will happen. Could you have an independent? Could one of them be an independent? The chair could be an independent.

Mary Shapiro was an independent. Jay Clayton basically was an independent. You know, one lean, but, you know, at the end of the day, the chair is selected by the president. But the other two on each is selected by the President. And but the but the two, the other two on each side are Democrats and Republicans. So that's why you see me post that it in the whole Carolyn Crenshaw thing is why can't if we've been hearing for the past, you know, six

months, you know, all the crypto for Harris folks, you know, the Krasensteins and others about it, that that crypto is not partisan, I actually believe it shouldn't be. But it is. And the harris folks you know the krassensteins and others about it that that crypto is not partisan i i actually believe it shouldn't be but it is and the only way it becomes non-partisan is if the democrats will actually put up pro-innovation candidates uh to be at the sec if they can't find that then it put then it basically tells you that it's unfortunately become partisan i hope that they will work to finding people who are believing in Democrat values of inclusivity Etc but also support innovation because it they really should be

able to find people like that I mean I personally know some Democrats were like that I don't know if any of them are or anywhere near the list but that's the issue so what you were Nathaniel was saying was sort of wrong. Yeah, there could be short periods of time as you're waiting where you could have, you know, commissions that are unbalanced, but ultimately it will be balanced. Two Democrats, two Republicans in the chair, and the chair we already know, assuming he's confirmed as Paul, who is a Republican. And considering that he once asked me how he thought we were going to do in the next election, we're talking about the Republicans,

I'm very confident that he's a Republican. Yeah, interesting times are going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. Won't be the last time that I say something that's wrong or that one of my guests does, by the way, Dave, on my show. It's funny to them actually as I'm- Including me, by the way. I say plenty that's wrong or that one of my guests does by the way dave on my show it's funny to them actually as i say plenty that's wrong so yeah i get that as i was just as we were just talking about that like i got a bunch of messages saying that apparently i'm in trouble with the

xrp army again and i don't know why and that that's what's happening at the moment because uh because mark usko i think called them a scam on my show yesterday. And I was not quick enough to correct him or something. Yeah, it's fun hosting shows, guys. Because you are actually liable for everything that every guest says all the time. And it naturally defaults to being your opinion. To be clear, I don't think XRP is a scam. I just don't think of XRP very often. It's fun.

And I have a lot of friends who do. And it's great for them. Yeah. Friends give me the heart. And Donish. Well, well don is you're now an xrp maxi right like huge you're the biggest maxi in the xrp army you're the actual the leader of the xrp army all i'm saying is whenever everybody's shitting on something it might be worthwhile considering owning some i i 100% agree with that. I literally like nothing makes me happier than seeing something that people call dead in crypto massively pump and a bunch of people making money.

Even if I had some sort of emotional feeling or my opinion on it is different, there's nothing better than people who've been underwater for a very long time coming into profit and getting to celebrate if they've been so passionate held for so long don't even care what it is could be some meme coin i've never even heard of um where's the speaking of meme coins uh what's the market cap of fart coin today anybody know because that's my gauge at this point for for uh sentiment in the crypto market wow 1.2 billion let's go 2 billion it must be those

it must be those perps with ai16z that just listed on okx but this is this is crazy so like there's no there's no retracement there's no bear market for fart coin guys somebody explain to me what's going on with fart corn. This is one of those OK boomer moments. Fart coin of value. What did you say? I missed it. Sorry. Culture token. It's a culture token. It was spun up by... I just thought that fart token was a store of value.

It's got a great team behind it. Is that like a joke? It's a culture token. I mean, is it because farts are funny to literally everyone at every age? Like my five-year-old and my father will both laugh at farts indiscriminately. It was an obvious play, Scott. I thought I fart coined, but I shit coined. So we get shark coined.

Is that what's coming next? That's what I want to know. Holy cow. Be right back, guys. I'm launching shark coin. Shark coin is coming out soon. But there is shit shit coin right like this was followed by shit coin i i would love to think that i'm being as funny as i am but um no you're right there's been every derivative of uh flatulence coin you could imagine including one that went crazy i think what was it called

unicorn unicorn fart dust or something come on come on scott we're all shit coins here i know we are but like when you it was very obvious that someone should launch one that just literally called chicken it was a unicorn fart dust maybe is that right exactly exactly and it's uh it's it's had a pretty good run hey robbie how's animoca you know uh investing heavily in these fart coins and unicorn? How are you guys approaching the memes? We're not. Our legal department's not too fond of the idea of us launching meme coins.

But yeah, I do think that, you know, speaking of stuff that's been around for a while in crypto and makes a comeback, it's been a good week for the nft community uh hopefully some people on here have some cool cats maybe i'm sure carlos guys hand up does that mean he does also more breaking news uh open c confirmed that an open c foundation has gone live which is the precursor that a lot of people have been speculating for an OpenSea token, which, if it happens, would reward a lot of OG NFT buyers on the OpenSea platform.

So a huge stimulus is potentially coming, which is only going to continue to rise NFT floors, like Robbie is saying. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, you know, Pudgy was a big story this week and the launch of their abstract chain impending. And so I think it's just nice to see all of these communities that have been around a while starting to, you know, be part of more current narratives again, whether it's because of existing collections that have been revitalized or because they're starting to deploy new stuff, you know, to the existing community. I honestly haven't, but how is Pengu? Is that how you pronounce it? Pengu? How has that performed since the drop? It corrected a little bit, but it's rebounding nicely. And I think it was a great example too, because the way that Luca designed the airdrop, I mean, it was designed in a really sort of Web3 native way of trying to be inclusive and to recognize all of the communities that have contributed to the overall NFT ecosystem. I think that was actually very smart because I'm a big believer in, you know, the more decentralization, ultimately, the more, you know, value you're going to accrue to that token over time.

Speaking of things that have had a raging comeback bitcoin is currently green on the day only by about twenty dollars but uh for all the uh pain and suffering of this morning and we'll see how the day closes but bitcoin's now trading at ninety seven thousand four hundred and fifty dollars after going as low as like 92-ish even when i woke up this morning so quite quite a quick potential reversal here i guess uh lending us to wonder if this was just yet another massive panic bitcoin retraces 14 all coins take their uh 40 30 40 50 percent dip and then onwards and upwards dave i saw you lift your mic that's got to be red meat for you. Yeah, I mean, look, we all know that I think these are squiggles. And you know, it is what it is. But you know, it you

can't help but look at the, you know, actions like this, on a Friday going, you know, into the weekend as trade and at the same time as the funding rates and all the on, not all but the vast majority of perpetual swap contracts are well below normal and in many cases negative uh which is indicative that that people are pressing shorts uh you know it it is it certainly feels like like whatever has been happening this is this is definitely a level here where there's more demand and you don't really want to short into it it's all the people who there are a lot of people who are calling for

92 to buy back in i think the three people who managed to get some orders filled by those stink bids uh god bless them but i think that most of the people who had money sitting on the sidelines are gonna if it doesn't if it stays around these levels, at some point, you know, next week or so, they'll, they'll probably give up and say, Okay, fine, I can't get what I want done at those levels, we're not gonna see that retracement, but we'll see. I mean, look, you and I both know that that this does it, this is not top behavior. That's, that's all I have to say. It's not top market market behavior it feels like you're kind

of in the middle of a pause and we bounce around here for a while and then we see what happens I mean even reading Arthur Hayes's uh diet you know last missive which which I love Arthur's stuff but there was a huge disconnect between most of what he wrote and his conclusion which is kind of interesting and I'm curious if you if anyone noticed that, that, you know, basically everything he was saying is long term, massively bullish for Bitcoin. But then he says, well, it's going to dump around Trump's inauguration without a whole lot of reasoning. I'm curious, you know, what people think about that, because it feels like he wrote that before this most recent dump. So who knows if this is what he was talking about? Yeah, I'm trying to find the exact words that he used.

I've talked about it a bunch of times, of course, can't remember at this moment. But basically, his argument, Dave, was that, you know, we've priced in all of the insane bullishness and things that have been promised by the new administration coming in and that price could pull back, even if harrowing dump was the term by the way harrowing dump around so like if all those things don't happen in the first few weeks do we panic and sell i don't necessarily agree with that but that was well i the thing is is first of all there are two things that are not priced in there's i don't believe there will be a bitcoin strategic reserve where we actually go buy stuff or that we're going to hear i think maybe we we hear about something in three to six months, but certainly anyone who believes that

there's going to be a day one executive order. Yeah. Okay. That's a disappointment. I'll grant that. But the fact that the SEC and the CFTC are going to back off the bullshit and allow the financial system to trade and offer services, there will be a land grab. It is impossible for me to believe that there are not people at my ex-firm Citigroup or Morgan Stanley or at Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs actually bragged about it a couple of days ago. Every single broker dealer, and we're talking tens of thousands of financial advisors that are there are all going to be able to offer Bitcoin trading in the next administration. And there is no way in hell that's priced in. I'm sorry. It just isn't. The fact is, I went this morning just to test it out on a different platform and tried to buy a Bitwise ETF.

And it told me it was a restricted security. That is going to end. End. That is not priced in. So as big as the ETFs look now, understand there are huge percentages of the world who cannot buy them. In fact, even in Charles Schwab, you have to click cryptocurrency has excess risk stuff. You need to buy it. It being normalized is not in the price. I'm sorry. It just isn't. Maybe it'll be in the price if we get to 250 or so, maybe, but it's not in the price here. So that's where he's wrong. Can you hear me, Scott? Yeah. So really quickly, I will say this. It's going to upset people. I don't care. Micro strategy continues to be way overpriced. We continue to see some of these other things.

But the one thing we know this morning is that this entire move was a macro move that was connected to Powell's comments. Today, the PCEce came in and that's why we saw an immediate bounce back this is all about the macro moves and clearly pce came in lower than expected which is rare because usually the analysts can count now i lost you. Okay, we lost Dhanush there. No, I'm back. You're back. I was just going to say that the important part is that the PCE is what's driving this

entire move this morning. And I think that it's going to continue to do so because there's no data that's going to be coming out between now. So the GDP data plus Fowl kind of scared the market a little bit. But remember, they don't have a choice. They have to keep cutting. They may cut a little bit slower until Trump comes in. But as soon as Trump comes in, he's going to want to cut the rates.

That's what he wants. He wants that low rate QE regime because he needs the number to go up so he feels good about himself inside. So ultimately, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think this was the last sort of try by Powell, and it's already over. It's going to be a rapid recovery. We're going to continue to see this move forward. I am not worried about it but i will say if you are dumb enough to do a lever trade on bitcoin you got

what you deserve and if you continue to bet on micro strategy you're going to in the long run lose money not because bitcoin goes up because of the premium on nav goes down just be very very careful tanish and such a spoiler and it just go up forever and we can all just rave about how amazing michael saylor is and he can have his 100k party on new year's that i'm not at all bitter i can't go to even though i was invited but i'm going to be away on family vacation can't we just have good things, Danish? Have nice things? 100 price to NAV. Go ahead. No, I was just joking.

100 price to NAV. That just keeps expanding and outpaces Bitcoin for the rest of time. Whatever could happen, Michael. Anything could happen. Dave, I have to imagine that on this drop, he's saying it's all macro, but it always tends to align with huge leverage flushes, right? I mean, I saw like in a couple hours, it was like 1.2 billion or something crazy. So once again, people were heavily over levered law. Yeah, it's true. I mean, look, I agree with most of what Donna said, except I think on micro strategy, it doesn't go to the moon, no trees don't grow to the sky, the

leverage doesn't continue. But people will pay for and by the way, this is going to change and six months from now, it probably won't be needed. But, you know, if you want to have a and I know this sounds crazy, but a conservatively levered exposure to Bitcoin that somebody else manages that you don't have to sit there and deal with yourself. MicroStrategy makes sense. That's what it that's what it is. I mean, it's not 20 to one lever. It's, you know, his based on based on what we've ever seen. It's like two or three to one. And is that worth it? You know, and do people want to do that? Also understand that at some

point next year, this will change change but if you want to and because I did this I literally you know went through all my accounts and at every one of the brokerage accounts that I have and every one of the majors you can buy MicroStrategy no problem but when you want to try to buy the Bitcoin ETF a lot of them either make you sign things or won't let you. And so understand that there are some other impetuses to MicroStrategy. And we know he's been selling stock. And we know that that's going to end at some point in the not so distant future. So I actually

would take the other side of Donnish's bet in the intermediate term. Not in the long term, though, I agree with him. I mean, in the long term, if you can manage it yourself, you're obviously way better off and you're paying a premium. I just don't know how big the premium you're paying with MicroStrategy. Then Mikkel's point is also really true. It is not a to-the-moon deal. You can't continue to outperform forever.

And the bigger you get, the harder it is, the more you have to pyramid in order to get those returns. So it's not sustainable at that rate, but it's still a reasonable play at some premium to NAV. I don't know where that premium is. But Dave, as we get regulatory clarity and it becomes easier to trade Bitcoin yourself, microstrategy becomes irrelevant and regresses back. And that is what's going to happen. And by the way, that's coming in the next six months. So I thought I would invest six months ahead. I do. I do. Well, look, I like to be honest with people, right? You know, we have people in the audience who know, you know, they all know I'm a Bitcoin bull. I am long MicroStrategy. I'm not irresponsibly long it, but I am long it. And I don't expect to be long it forever. I expect it to be a way of stacking sats. And what you just said is exactly the point. And, you know, if I miss a bit bit of a reversion, six months from now, or nine months

from now, when this really starts, okay, fine. But I do think we have months, at least a quarter or two, before we are looking down the barrel of that. And I think if I believe which I do, that Bitcoin is going to go up in the next couple of quarters substantively, I think MicroStrategy will benefit. And, you know, it's just people should be aware of what they're buying. It's like, it's like anytime people invest use options, there's so many different interconnected financial products here. But you and I both know that it's not

binary. And unfortunately, when people hear what you say, or what I say, they interpret it as binary. And it isn't. It depends on your time horizon. But it is safer to buy MicroStrategy than to go 50x long on a perpetual swap and just kind of leave it there to get liquidated. And that's really the only point that I was trying to make. I don't think we disagree all that much, Don, just to be honest. Yeah, my biggest question, Mark, is like, does this product even

continue to trade at a premium in the future? I just look at it as like, hey, you don't have any underlying legal right to that Bitcoin. You're taking massive counterparty risk. The biggest thing Bitcoin was supposed to get rid of was counterparty risk. So I just don't even know if this is a product that even deserves to be trading at a premium to the amount of Bitcoin they have. That's a big question I ask, obviously. But you're a counterparty risk on every perpetual swap. And since Arthur invented them, there's been 5x the volume in perpetual swaps than there has been in spot. Sorry, Dave.

What I was saying would be more from the fundamental thesis that a lot of people are buying microstrategy right now as a substitute to buying Bitcoin and thinking they're getting some kind of more direct proxy. And a lot of the volume going into microstrategy right now is for people who don't have a better way to allocate to that Bitcoin. But I take your point. If you're just using it at the leverage play, then I think that's a great use case for it. Well, also, it's about the fact that he's able to borrow money that you can't borrow. So you're essentially paying a premium, because he has access to financing, that premium is on the long-term value to growth. But again, running even 20% above NAV makes okay sense. Maybe 50% above NAV. Okay, fine. Guys, we're talking about multiples

on NAV. This is like, this is bubblish. This is stupidity. I'm sorry. I have to use those words, but it's clearly that this makes no sense. Access to financing is not worth that much. Danish, have you, it seems like everybody isn't taking in the core business strategy of micro strategy, you know, the way they earned revenue before they became a Bitcoin company. What percentage of their revenue today comes from them? Or were you kidding? I apologize.

I'm not sure. I can't tell. Fred, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic because it literally does not add anything. Totally, 100%. I was just hoping maybe someone could tell me what they did used to do before they became a Bitcoin company. Business software services.

And I think it's still a multi hundred millions of dollars a year business, but obviously a fraction of, you know, the accounts for a fraction of the market cap. Yeah. I mean, does anybody else have a passionate opinion on how things end for micro strategy? I mean, Dave, you basically, we've talked about this a lot, but I mean, you basically said unless they become insolvent, you know, the stock won't go down, but it's not like they're going to break, right? No, I mean, look, what Danish and I were both kind of sort

of getting towards agreement on is I think that the premium in MicroStrategy will decrease over time. The question of how violently that is, is obviously on the margins and when that happens. But that it's fundamental accumulation strategy of monetizing volatility to be able to borrow crazy cheap in dollars in and be and be able to buy Bitcoin, which is not going to depreciate, and it's going to do the opposite, is fundamentally going to be attractive for a while. And that's fine. I mean, but at some point, yeah, I mean, it's not look, anyone who believes that, you know, that Bitcoin going from 50,000 to 100,000 and MicroStrategy 4X, you know, 4X or 8X or whatever it did, and that if Bitcoin goes from

100 to 200 to do another 8x with the same ratio, they're out of their minds. The ratio is going to decrease over time and eventually be underperforming. That is just math. You can't change that. It will be that. It's every fund that has ever existed becomes a victim of its own size. Right. And so you just need to understand that that does not mean that's why it's not a binary question. At this instant in time, have he that they reach saturation? I don't think so. I don't think they're even that even that close. But you have to ask yourself, is the company that pioneered a strategy where there's very little barrier to

entry going to be worth more than Apple because of what they can do? And the answer might be, I mean, BlackRock is the company isn't worth it. The weird thing is, this is the company stock. I mean, BlackRock's company stock is not worth $10 trillion, right? But they have $10 trillion worth of assets. So at some point, one has to ask the question is, what's the pass through here? Right. And so there's all these sorts of math that you have to go through to do this. It is it is I am not a look, I own it. So it's not like I'm bearish, but you do have to be realistic.

And a lot of the people and this is Danish's point. I think he's right. A lot of the people who buy it, you know, with like titles like irresponsibly long MSTR and their Twitter handle, and I'm sure I'm getting some hate from that, don't understand what they're actually owning. And as long as you understand what you're owning, it's fine. And, you know, Saylor has done, he's been incredibly on it. And his value in terms of promoting Bitcoin is amazing. And he's put his money where his mouth is. But he also managed to people, you got to give him credit. He managed this through that incredibly huge drawdown of 70% without blinking. And you got to give credit for that, no matter how you want to slice it. So people, when you talk about counterparty risk,

and people look at it, go, wait a minute, you know, it went from 60,000 to 17,000. He was down 50%, right? I mean, I think his cost basis was slightly over 30 when it was down to, you know, Bitcoin was slightly above 15. Exactly. So, you know, as I said, there's lots of ebbs and flows here. And then there are maxis who will say, well, wait a minute, they're going to own too much. And if you think MicroStrategy owns too much, 10 years from now, the amount of Bitcoin that's going to be owned in as being part of index funds and other financial products, because it's easier for people until such a time as you can log into your Coinbase account or your Kraken account or your Gemini account and designate people as beneficiaries and know that there's that that there is a it's just as insured and just as safe for your beneficiaries as a brokerage account until that's fixed. Yeah, there's a use case here.

And you know, so you got all those crosscurrents. So anyway, I'm talking way too much. So I'm gonna shut up. Yeah, I and I totally take your points. One of the biggest things I always say when we have this discussion. I'm not saying it as in Bitcoin's going to drop 20%, it's going to blow up micro strategy. I mean, I think that time period you're talking about is perfect proof that the strategy is obviously a lot more robust in ways than many people give it credit for. I think mine is more on people who are saying, I want to get Bitcoin and therefore I own this vehicle. I'm not exactly what you said. I think that multiple compresses and I think that ultimately leads to some underperformance. And I also think the reason for that is because there's going to be more appetite for better products that give them more direct access to that Bitcoin.

And yeah, there's a lot of really cool ways, selfish plug, to be able to do stuff like that. We're just getting that started over with what I'm doing, being able to do beneficiaries and get actual accounts. So lots of cool stuff happening on that front. I think we're about, obviously, SEC approved the first hybrid Bitcoin ETF, which we've listed above in the title. But we didn't talk about the fact that the British High Court sentenced Craig Wright to 12 months in prison for being the world's biggest LARP and claiming that he is Satoshi Nakamoto. Nobody has taken more voluntary beatings in history than Craig Wright. Just going to court, spending money, suing people for things that are easily to disprove and just getting beaten down. But now apparently the guy is going to go to jail for a year for claiming to be Soshi Nakamoto. Another one, United States reject SBF's conviction appeal. So he's going to be in jail with Diddy and Luigi, and

they're all in jail together, starting a team of some sort. And El Salvador buys 11 Bitcoin a day after the IMF deal. This one is really interesting to me. And Simon, you probably have an opinion on this. But obviously, Bitcoin are to split on this, right? Because effectively, El Salvador making Bitcoin legal tender, the IMF and World Bank push back, so they're never getting a loan while Bitcoin is legal tender. And of course, Bukele kind of laughed in their faces and said, I'll do Bitcoin bonds and we'll proceed and Bitcoin will save us. And that has largely happened, but now has taken a large loan from the IMF with some concessions about Bitcoin. But then the day after the news comes out, basically saying, I'm going to take the money the IMF has loaned me and buy more Bitcoin with it. I mean, could anybody unpack this for me? Because it's a stout big side. You go first.

Yeah, well, firstly, firstly the yeah I mean so what were the the he borrowed 3.5 billion can you hear me okay okay um so yeah he took this do you guys hear Simon can anyone else hear me yeah yeah I can hear okay I'm just gonna be quiet and Don is you you uh take over hosting duties when Simon's done for the moment. Okay, cool. Yeah, so there's the 3.5 billion, which I think is a huge disappointment. I hate the fact that El Salvador is still continuing to take IMF money. IMF money comes with massive strings.

And if you haven't learned that lesson by now, um, that's the most likely cause of a regime change because, uh, that's what normally happens when you take the IMS money, suddenly your government's overthrown, um, and you end up like Syria. Um, but I'm not saying that that's going to happen. Um, but he, you know, he's taken the 3.5 billion. I went over there, like to work on the Bitcoin bond, we launched one at Bank to the Future in 2014, the first Bitcoin bond in the world. And so I'm hugely disappointed that he didn't do it. You know, it was initially delayed because of the, the, you know, the bad market, and then he got into the good market and with what michael saylor's doing today it would be you know a massive um you know proof of concept that the country can raise money independent of the imf and the belton road initiative that changes the world rapidly if

if a country that has suffered civil wars and you know massive u CIA operations and all the traumas that a country like El Salvador has been through. And you could prove that you could raise finance, restructure your debt, independent of China and America, and do the Bitcoin bond. I was really excited about that project. But it seems like the IMF obviously has some kind of leverage that meant that they had to do the scale back and take the 3.5 billion from the economic hitmen and financial terrorists at the IMF. But anyway, the scale back was unwind Chivo wallet, I think, or whatever that means.

So Chivo Wallet was the government issued onboarding and offboarding. No big deal. He's got a tax haven. So, you know, he should be able to bring Bitcoin businesses to fulfill onboarding and offboarding. And then make legal tender voluntary, uh no big deal um it was kind of voluntary anyway you can't really force someone and no one's going to be enforced in order to accept bitcoin if they don't accept it um and it's against the bitcoin ethos anyway um but i do think it was a you know i don't think it definitely you couldn't take the imf money and directly buy a

larger amount of bitcoin so those would have been different IMF money and directly buy a larger amount of Bitcoin. So those would have been different pockets of money. And I think Bokelli is kind of like the concept of having to play the existing system at the same time as build an alternative system. And so decided to coincide the announcement with buying more than the one Bitcoin and bought a million dollars worth of Bitcoin, which I think is kind of saving grace just to try and let the world know, look, I have to listen to the terrorists. Unfortunately, I'm a president send a signal to the Bitcoin community that I can still buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoin. So I think that was all it's about. It's just the challenges of being a Bitcoin country

while trying to actually ensure you have relationships with the international powers that have the power to overthrow your government if you get it wrong. Yeah, for anyone who wants to learn more about that behavior that you were just describing, there was a great book. It's from 2007. So it's outdated, but the history is still accurate. It's called The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein, talking about the way that the IMF, World Bank, and the United States government and CIA effectively have gone in and taken over many, many countries in the name of very large loans. It's not a surprising behavior. And I've said before, and Simon would discuss this, but El Salvador was always in a unique position because

they're dollarized, right? So the United States couldn't attack their currency, their currency is the dollar. So they were one of the only countries at that time that could ever have adopted Bitcoin as legal tender and gotten away with it to some degree. Yeah, and that's always been the model, just in case you don't know. You know, if you read books like Covert Regime Change, it goes through all the declassified CIA documents, where, you know, if you read books like Covert Regime Change, it goes through all the declassified CIA documents where, you know, they literally America created terrorism and funds all these fake terrorist groups and calls them Muslims and stuff when they were actually CIA, Mossad and MI6 operations. And it's still haunting us to this day. It's still confusing people. And then if you read the book, like Confessions of an Economic Hitman, you can understand how the idea is that you try and bankrupt a company through IMF debt that they know they can never change. And then the regime change comes if you don't

implement a debt-based Ponzi scheme, central bank, from the Bank for International Settlements. The Bank for International Settlements was an organization that was created at the Treaty of Versailles after World War I in order to redistribute all of Germany's debts and all of the gold that was confiscated. And so this was, know bank for international settlements has been a mechanism for stealing countries gold um and uh and then you have this uh imf which is to get countries deep into debt if you don't do what they say then you end up with a covert regime change through cia funded massad funded and MI6-funded state terrorism. And then they have to print their currency through their own central bank in order to try and pay off some of their dollar debts, which is like the dollar milkshake theory

that we're experiencing in real time, when our countries can no longer invest in their own infrastructure because they're essentially buying treasuries and lending it to the US government, which is the organization that created the destabilization in the region in the first place, in order to try and create some stability for their currency. And so, yeah, one way around that is to just adopt the dollar and then implementing Bitcoin as legal tender just hits upon, you know, the really gets to the root cause of, you know, a kind of a break from the IMF system and everything that comes with it. Danish. Yeah, sorry, not to change the subject, but I just want everybody that's listening to know live, Bitcoin has retraced

all of its losses from this day. Yeah, it's green. It's actually now trading. It's green. And I'm not a chartist. I know you are, Scott. But it looks like we have a pattern developing that could be very bullish. A bullish hammer.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it looks very interesting. And I think it's like, it's one of those, uh, things where, um, if you in our, in our morning show, I, uh, I was mentioning about how, I think it's not just like, uh, one George Noble, very well known. If you guys know who he is, it was on the show this morning and he was like, well, you know, you shouldn't buy on belief and this and that he tried to, people try to make me, I, it was funny because Simon and I were on the same side,

just being like, no, no, no, this is not belief. It's just, but interestingly, those of us that saw this and saw, oh, this is just a macro movement. Yes, the folks got liquidated, they were leveraged. This is clearly going to reverse trend. We're saying that there were, quote unquote, chartists coming and saying, oh, this is an awful time to DCA. And what I will tell everybody is if I have learned anything from all of my mistakes,

it's when everybody tells you it's an awful time to DCA, go DCA. It's the perfect time to DCA. Fred? I just wanted to bring up something on the craig wright thing really quickly because it's personal uh n-chain came after one of my clients and used craig wright and their former ceo uh stephan matthews who's no longer there anymore and filed all this stuff about how great and trustworthy they were. And I threw that COPA action right back in their effing face. And then now that I can go back in the same case and be like, by the way, that guy's going to jail.

I know it's a suspended sentence, but it's still there. And just take him and his company to shreds made my day. I was very happy. Hey, mick all your friends are really mad at me on the internet can you tell them oh for the for the mark youth go thing yeah they're very upset no they're not mad at you they're mad at me oh no they're mad at me i love it and like honestly man like and nothing to the xrp it's It's like, it is entertaining in general sometimes to accidentally trigger any community in crypto. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think after going through the entire Ripple SEC case and kind of feeling attacked for so long, the community is definitely a bit on edge.

But I think that kind of calms down when people feel like everything's kind of on a level playing field. So I totally get that. Yeah. I posted a crazy comment though. Crazy comment. Brad, Brad Garlinghouse, a scammer. I think that's probably a bit over the line. Yeah. I got in a lot of trouble when, so you, I said this earlier, but when you host a show, everyone, people have all kinds of comments. And nobody cares when people call things a scam or say negative things about something

until it's like your thing, right? So I got in a lot of trouble when David Hoffman was on my show once upon a time from Bankless. I think he called it ADA or scam or something. And apparently, much like Jerome Powell, I sneezed in the wrong direction or my eyes slightly changed color, which meant I was in full agreement or I didn't push back hard enough. And so, like the Cardano people hated me for years because somebody said something on my show.

It happens. Yeah, no, it's a tough position to be in because obviously you're just having them on the show. They can say whatever they want. But I do think it's weird to even be like throwing around that language from someone in his position. I mean, it's one thing to not like a project and there's one thing to take issue with things, but to go out and be outright calling some of these things scams. I mean, just take a look at like the size of the community and people like building on Cardano, building on the XRP ledger. I mean, it's pretty incredible. So to be that dismissive,

I don't love the language at all. I think calling people like Brad Garlinghouse a scammer is a little insane, especially after he was vindicated in the Ripple SEC case. But making that fall on you doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I just posted a picture of me wearing XRP socks if it helps anyone. That's hilarious. In case you guys saw it you know um no no no i think a lot of the community scott like really appreciates your show uh a lot of people really like the way that you're giving everyone like a chance to come on and and kind of talk about these things and

you're not kind of perpetuating a lot of the things that push certain communities away so i think you're doing an excellent job thank you and. And your check is in the mail. But honestly, I've tried to get Brad for ages, just haven't been able to get him on the show. And I would love to have Brad. And, you know, listen, just because I'm not like as equally passionate, I guess, as some are, nobody is about the thing that everybody else loves. And that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it. Definitely. You should give David Schw schwartz a try he would be a great person to talk to and i think he's a little bit easier to get on um those interviews so you should also give him a shot just feel feel hurt you know feel like i tried i did once uh at uh missarinet, I did the dunk tank with Ryan Selkis and Brad Garlinghouse.

And we kept joking because Selkis was in the dunk tank and I was holding it sounds bad, but it was the joke. I was holding Brad's balls. So I was holding the balls for him and he would take them and then he would go try to knock Selkis in the tank and eventually we just ran up there and hit it. So there's all

these videos of me holding Brad's balls once upon a time. That went kind just ran up there and hit it. So there's all these videos of me holding Brad's balls once upon a time that went kind of viral. So, you know, it's been, Selkis has been flip flopping back and forth on Brad, like they were like best friends or something.

They were like best friends. I was there. Like that was Masari main net probably two years ago in October. I mean, it was pretty peak bear market if I recall, but like they were definitely best buddies. Yeah. He hated him and

then liked him and now he seems like he's throwing tantrums on x again again about him so it's kind of interesting to watch that development but uh yeah who knows I thought that was kind of funny I did see that dunk tank thing so that's that's an awesome story but yeah they seemed like they got along now they don't get along anymore so what a funny kind of dynamic that has been yeah I mean at the end of the day and in all seriousness I think you know and I said this It seemed like they got along and now they don't get along anymore. So what a funny kind of dynamic that has been. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, in all seriousness, I think, you know, and I said this throughout the entire sort of XRP saga with the SEC, regardless of your thoughts on that token or any other, like, I think we were all in it together against the SEC and Ripple played a huge role.

Everybody, regardless of their thoughts, should have been cheering for them because they really kind of led the charge here that has allowed the entire crypto industry to push back, I think, against regulators. Largely a big, big reason that, you know, we all feel much more comfortable trading altcoins and definitely a huge reason that, you know, I think there's going to end up being regime change here because people were so fed up with that behavior. I remember when the SEC first filed the case, the biggest narrative in the entire crypto community was that it's impossible to beat the SEC. No one beats the SEC. Ripple is done. It's over. Not a single person could come out of the SEC with a win. And just take a look how the mindset has changed from the entire crypto industry since that win.

Now it's like everyone's like, okay, we feel comfortable going toe-to-toe and fighting our case. We feel comfortable deploying some of these resources because now there's been a playbook in place and proof that this can actually be done. So I think it's been critically important to just giving a lot of these other people who have been facing these challenges with the SEC kind of the ability to feel like, hey, we can come out of this with a win and we can stand up to the agency. Totally. And now it's 1123 and we got to go and the show rapid for the week. Going to be interesting to see where we come back during the holidays. And these assets are trading at Bitcoin once again, now at 97.6, basically the same price that they opened at yesterday.

Far cry from the 108 where we were. But if this continues going up, we're all going to giggle at the card and say, oh, it was just a 14% correction. Usually we get 30% corrections in the bull market. We know how this game ends. I think we all agree that nothing but tailwinds and better, better things ahead. Thank you so much to all of our guests for all of you, of course, for listening, especially the XRP army who I do so deeply love and have deep affection for. Um, you're the best.

Um, and once again, follow everybody on stage. I say it every time, but I strangely don't see 5,000 extra followers for all of our guests each day. So follow them. They're great. They're up here because we view them as an authority and great conversation. And I got to tell you, it's hard to show up five days a week and do these shows, whether it's spaces, YouTube, whatever, like guests are giving freely of their time and their opinions and putting themselves out there and all deserve a follow. So everybody have a great weekend. We will hopefully be back on Monday. The next few weeks obviously are going to be up and down depending on holiday timing and where we are as hosts, but we're going to try to be as consistent as possible. Thanks everyone.

Have an amazing weekend and a great holiday if we don't see it. Bye.