The Wolf Of All Streets - Solana went DOWN | Monero DELISTED | China Stimulus | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

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Hey, man. How you doing? Good. What do we got today? Solana's back up. Down and up. I think it just came back. Let me just change the title.

Solana went down. What are your thoughts about Monero? I'm fixing it, don't I? What are your thoughts on Monero getting delisted? I'm not surprised i mean i think that uh most privacy will be built into more decentralized protocols and platforms in the future and i think that any centralized exchange probably that has privacy coins listed is getting in line with regulators i don't really know but i would imagine it's just like not worth their risk to allow it to be traded especially especially if it has low volume and, you know, could.

That's just my assumption is that it's sort of a narrative of the past. Their upside is so limited to have it listed with extreme downside. So I'm not saying it's right just for the record. Anyone listening, I think it's wrong. I think we should be able to trade whatever. I think these privacy coins are exceptionally important, but it's just no for the record anyone listening i think it's wrong i think we should be able to trade whatever i think these privacy coins are exceptionally important but it's just no upside for them did you um also did you have you been keeping up with what's happening in china i mean very little to be honest i kind of was uh took a few days off but uh i'm sure we have

people who can speak much better to that than me. Dave. TLDR, my economy not looking good. Markets crashed. Stimulus kicked in. Markets, I think, pumped today. Yeah, I saw that. TLDR. But Dave and Simon, we talked about China yesterday. Maybe give us a quick recap of what we discussed yesterday and your thoughts on developments today in the market pumping.

I think there's like a $200 billion stimulus or something along those lines that was announced maybe you guys are following it closely uh yeah from my side this is what i wasn't looking for um i was uh hoping that china would actually just let it rip let banks fail uh go through um and come back to fight another day but if if they're doing more stimulus, more Ponzi economics, more bailouts, I think they made some good moves. They were reducing bank reserves, which I thought was the right thing to do. But yeah, if they're pushing in stimulus, then they're just rolling over and going through the same kick the can down the road philosophy that all fiat currencies follow.

So to me, it's good short term. Everyone can get some hopium into their stocks, but it's bad long term. Now, what do you think it means for, go ahead, Dave. Yeah, I was just going to say, I mean, the number of times that people in control of economies elect to take pain, you know, compared to kicking the can down the road. I mean, I'm trying to think of the last time that somebody had it. I mean, you would think someone with the kind of political power that she has might have been. And I read what Simon wrote yesterday, and I was actually hopeful. I kind of agree with Simon on this one.

I mean, I think that he had enough power maybe to do it. Virtually nobody else does. But it's completely unsurprising. I mean, at the end of the day, we live in a time of where markets are more – I hate to use the word manipulated because that generally means short-term moves. But certainly controlled more than any other. And this just is another one. I mean, at the end of the day, it tends not to work.

It tends to be a short-term thing, and structural problems still need to get unwound. I mean, there's still some ungodly amount of real estate not being used there and things that have been built that aren't being used. But, you know, it is what it is, and they're going to continue to try to push the narrative yeah as you said dave you know you would have thought if anyone could do it xi jinping could could do it because he doesn't need to worry about the four or five year cycle and apparently bekele doesn't need to worry about it as well, even if it's unconstitutional. But, you know, economies that have to deal with this four year cycle, they're the most subject to short term manipulation in order to win the next election. Because otherwise someone comes along and just does a bailout and makes everything look better and then everyone votes.

And what impact do you expect it to have on crypto? Crypto is interesting. We've got these two competing narratives with crypto where, yeah, if everything's shit, you get the risk off stuff. But at the same time, Bitcoin solves many of the fundamental problems. So short term, you never know which one, which direction it's going to go. But long term, the reason I like Bitcoin is because either result would have led and supported the Bitcoin narrative. So I think it just leads to a pump and people feeling more happy and then more likely getting

into some of your altcoin super cycle type things. I mean, from my perspective, Mario, it removes one more piece of overhang that's holding back the markets. I mean, look, we are in a very tight trading range, have been for days now, you know, on the back of everything, you know, we consult, we, we are, this is a textbook consolidation, uh, before a bull run. Uh, it could be too, you know, obviously it's, it's one of those things that happens, but, you know, we had this run from 25 to 48 retracement down into the, the range we're in now. And it's, it's very strong. And, you know, there's the, the things that cause bull runs are when the overhangs are gone. And the two big overhangs that were left, the bigger one is supply, right? GBTC being the head. Whatever the unhedged GBTC exposure was, it's a hell of a lot less now, but there's still some.

The other one was that China would crater the global economy and we'd go into a deflationary spiral. You almost hate to mention that because, Scott, you weren't on yesterday on your show, but that's the doomer part of it, which I think is absolutely incredibly unlikely and obviously now is even vanishingly less likely. So it does matter. And talking about GBTC, Juan, maybe give us a quick update on the ETF numbers. I was just looking at them earlier. I'll try to open it up. But it's good to have you and Matt here again. I just really appreciate you guys being so transparent and just updating everyone. So I've got Matt and Juan have been with us constantly giving us updates, both

from Bitwise, obviously giving us updates about Bitwise, but the ETFs in general. Yeah, thank you for having me on again. The Bitcoin ETF flows have continued strongly. The week prior to the last one, there were net outflows of about 400 or so million, and people were worried that the inflows were starting to grind to a halt. But then last week, we saw new net inflows of 700 million. So another strong week. And as of yesterday, we've had total flows into the ETFs of 7.6 billion with net inflows of 1.5 billion. So we're still seeing strong momentum and are continuing to be excited by the traction that these ETFs are seeing. Matt?

Yeah, I think Juan has it right. I also think we're starting to tiptoe into the next and probably more important phase. I know Bitwise has been approved on more than 10 national account platforms. That's sort of where you get the next phase of growth, where you can sell into major groups of advisors and they can start accessing the assets. So I'm really impressed that we're still seeing net positive flows, still seeing relatively strong trading volumes. And I think, you know, over the next few months, we're going to move into the second phase of growth, which is exciting. So yeah, I think it's I think the ETFs are still doing very well. Matt, do we have a concept? Sorry, really quickly, like what

percentage of these platforms currently offer access to the ETFs? And what percent we're still waiting for? Yeah, it's still a minority that are offering access. It's still a minority. You know, maybe it's 20% and not the biggest ones. But if other ETF issuers calendars look like my calendar, there are a lot of meetings going on. And I expect that will continue to change. But at least, you know, I think I said a few spaces ago, the door was open a crack. Now you can walk through the door, you know, maybe we're 20% of the way there. But the other 80% is lining up to make these decisions, you know, over the next two or three months, it's happening. It's got faster than I thought it would, I knew it would happen,

but it's happening a little bit faster than I thought. Andrew? Yeah, it's fits and starts in the traditional financial sort of wealth management world. So you have some organizations that are maybe more considered your online type of wealth management folks, but a place like LPL, which a good portion of the folks listening to this space don't have any idea who that is, but they employ, let's call it 20,000 plus advisors. A place like Edward Jones, folks may not know who that is. There's another almost 20,000 advisors. Let's call it 40,000 advisors just between those two organizations. LPL, I think Thursday or Friday of last week, their head of, you know, approving products, whatever his title is, said, we're going to wait another three months and then

take another look at potentially approving Bitcoin ETFs, you know, inside of our platform. Well, 40,000 advisors between those two organizations, there's about a half million financial advisors in the United States that are Series 7 and Series 63 licensed. So that's 10% of the total right there just between those two organizations. So Matt's right. There's only about 20% of advisors that have access for their clients to these products. So there's going to be a longer tail, which, you know, for inflows associated with, you know, the Bitcoin ETFs, maybe that's a positive because it's a more measured process by which, you know, client inflows can happen. But there is, you know, there is going to be some educational processes going on ETF firms are going to spend time,

you know, at the LPLs. They're going to spend time in Minneapolis at the headquarters of Ameriprise, which again is another 15,000 advisors. You know, they're going to have to spend time there, get the approvals that need to happen. And then again, you'll see more upticks in inflows. Interestingly enough, at most of those places, GBTC is approved and able to be held inside of accounts. So the fact that you're seeing continued outflows associated with that product while not having necessarily a like-minded product another bitcoin etf to move that money into that's an interesting dynamic in and of itself i think simon simon yeah do you know what? This is absolutely fascinating listening to the TradFis and people and Andrew as well. We're having these two worlds trying to figure each other out right now.

So while Andrew was sharing everything that the TradFi industry is doing to bring in the next wave of Bitcoiners through the stock market. On our side, in the Celsius bankruptcy emergence, we're looking to issue, we're taking a Bitcoin mining company public and we're issuing 100,000 creditors shares. I cannot tell you how many tens of thousands. I don't know the exact percentage i'd love to in the end that literally i've never owned a share in my life how do i how do i take delivery of a share what is a share how is it actually going to work um and they're like can you airdrop it to my meta mask wallet and it's just fascinating to experience these these two these two worlds merging and seeing crypto people having to be shoehorned into owning shares, like reluctantly against their will.

Yeah, that's an interesting point I hadn't really thought about, specifically to the Celsius bankruptcy. But I think that, you know, this intersection Andrew and Matt are sort of talking about is it's inevitable. And only for me, it can be a top of funnel to people coming into Bitcoin. Right. And so I think that it's a huge net positive that we're getting the intersection of these two worlds and we can never see Bitcoin grow until it happened. it is an interesting dynamic that simon just talked about that there are you know sections of the economy and quote unquote wealth management which is growing up in a space where they're they're accustomed to the way that that crypto operates? And then there's a larger section of quote unquote, personal wealth management, which only understands, you know, the traditional ways that,

that, you know, finance and wealth management works, right? So, you know, crypto folks that are native crypto folks, and have never dabbled much into traditional finance. You know, the idea of, you know, waiting a day or two or even three used to be T plus three. You know, you do a transaction and that transaction wouldn't settle for three days. Right. That was an accepted process and policy whereas crypto native folks are like oh i'm pissed off it's taking an extra you know 17 minutes for my bitcoin transaction to process bitcoin sucks you know i'm going to use some other chain right um maybe maybe yeah i want to kind of pivot that discussion andrew to get your thoughts on solana being down i think it's the first time in like about a year i think it's been 11 12 months the solana's down yeah i i and i want to get your

thoughts on i i made a post um i don't know a year or so ago um and i'll just own it it's about as bad a post as i've ever made um where solana was at nine bucks and i'm like listen solana's dead it's just it's absolutely dead it's it's garbage and then of course solana went from like seven dollars to a hundred and whatever what what what made what made you say that well you know i didn't again to be fair um i i thought to myself the overhang associated with, you know, SBF's involvement in Solana, even though, you know, the guy didn't invent it, he didn't create it, he simply, you know, bought in in a big way, you know, into the ecosystem, yada, yada, yada. You know, I, that was top of mind for me that there was going to be this ongoing attachment with SBF and to the credit of

of you know the developers at Solana and the ecosystem and the frankly remarkable work that that you know that brand has done that to to resurrect it and to turn it into a highly usable blockchain, all credit to them. At the same time, what networks other than, quote unquote, Bitcoin are up all the time? Anywhere on the planet for anything? I mean, I don't know. I don't think any of them are. Does anyone know the technical reason that Solana went down

I haven't seen a full explanation yet I think I haven't seen it yet I haven't been able to find anything clear yeah Simon yeah I don't know on the price action but I was just gonna price action i was i was asking

more on like why you're not technical as in price wise technical as in why did the network go down but in terms of price uh someone did go i haven't looked at it for a couple hours but it did drop but not by much and he's like the lowest one is like four five percent down and then up again i'm not sure someone can open the charts now and check. Go ahead, Sam. Yeah, I was just going to share a bit of interesting on the Solana side in relation to the bankruptcies as well. Because in the FTX bankruptcy, they have a very large position in Solana that unlocks over the years ahead. But they are now making, they're using the price arbitrage

to make creditors 100% whole in dollar terms. So everyone has a claim based upon Bitcoin at $16,000, $17,000. The estate gets to keep all the upside and then sell all the crypto in order to make everyone whole. And then the next subordinated class in line will get all the upside after 100 and so in effect what that means is there's going to be a very large locked in solana position that will be entitled to the next in creditor so everyone only gets like 30 of their bitcoin back but they're made to believe they're 100 whole and then the upside is stolen essentially and given to the alameda investors and then the next in line after that

is the irs so the irs could end up with uh the bigger the larger upside the larger this solana position grows and um the yeah as thelocks start going forward. I could be wrong, maybe someone knows, but it's up to 10% of the entire supply as far as I know. I don't know the exact numbers either. I want to go back to

being down as well, how big of a deal it is. Everyone's pretty chill about it. The market's not reacting. But it is interesting, to Andrew's point, if Solana had an outage when price was low, it's a huge disaster. But if something goes out when price is high, people seem to gloss over it and just sort of move on with their lives. It's really true. It all is driven by price. Right.

I think, you know, I think an outage is concerning because whether it's a direct or indirect type of outage where it's caused by an entity, where it's some sort of attack, or whether it's an indirect outage where there's some sort of failure somewhere that gives some thought and concern associated with the viability and usability of the chain itself. Now, to be fair, if you look over the past six, 12 months, it's been up 99 plus percent of the time. From a statistical standpoint, that's fantastic. But one would be concerned about the ability for long term for there to be some sort of attack, some sort of issue. That would be my concern. If it's something.

Yeah, but Andrew, then why isn't the market? Juan, by the way, there's a bit of a glitch. I don't know why. Maybe force close the app and come back. Juan, I know you're trying to request. But, Andrew, why isn't the market reacting accordingly? Because pricing and market narratives aren't rational. That's why.

Because people want the price to stay above a certain amount. They want Solana to go up. It's one of the market's favorite darlings right now. That's just the reality of it. So, you know, as Scott just said, if the price had been $11, the outage would have caused it to go to $8.50, $7.00. It would have been a much bigger deal. So, you know, again, I'm not an expert in outages.

I have no idea technically what happened here. Folks at my company would laugh about the fact that I have an opinion about the technical portions of this conversation. But, you know, from a pricing standpoint, I think it has to do more with market narratives and the differences in emotions about a particular asset at different price points. Scott Mara, help me out. How do you have the word outage and blockchain in the same sentence? I thought this wasn't – how is that even a thing? Good question. That's a good question.

Maybe someone more technical could answer that one. Dave, Matt, you want to take a stab? And Stephen's here as well. Well, I'm not going to answer that question because we haven't seen the details yet. I mean, you know, it's still a network. Things break. But the answer to why the market's not moving, that's an easy one. In its history

coinbase has had multiple outages uh many and most of them you know whatever you said did you say hold on but did you say coinbase it used to be a joke that any time price moved more than one percent you couldn't access coinbase right so and amazon has had multiple outages in various data centers and as far as i know in neither of those cases when when those sorts of things happen where the And Amazon has had multiple outages in various data centers. And as far as I know, in neither of those cases, when those sorts of things happen, were the assets themselves impacted? The simple point is, is the demand for Solana is based upon the notion that applications like Jupyter, which is why I mentioned Coinbase, and other applications, why I mentioned Amazon, will demand it. And if it turns out that the reason it went down is because there's a fatal flaw that it just can't scale or something that is going to stop it, the price is going to get slaughtered.

If it turns out that a developer working with applications created something which was a latent bug that they're patching, okay, people are going to take it in stride. And until you know, it tends not to be smart to guess in these sorts of situations. Does it make it slightly more risky? Of course. But we need to know the why. Without knowing the why, you can't really make an investment decision. That's all I'll say.

Yeah. I was actually going to say the same thing i mean since since the start of the internet outages haven't been a reason to uh sell stocks i mean facebook went down two years ago as an example and the price is up massively since then uh And you've seen this in crypto's history time and time again. It's just, you know, in 90 plus percent of the cases, the market just shrugs off outages. And so it pays not to overreact. And again, that's been true for 30 years across all sorts of internet applications. Yeah, this is very different for a blockchain

is meant to solve that problem, though, that there is no centralized layer that can create an outage. If a blockchain can't go, can't function without an outage, it's not a blockchain. It is literally defying the fundamental principle of what it is. Exactly. That's why I was surprised when we started making the comparisons to Amazon, Coinbase, the internet. But Stephen, maybe you could explain a bit more on what could cause an outage and how you could have a blockchain and an outage in the same time.

One could make the case, though, that.e. Amazon, i.e. any other type of entity that has an enormous amount of traffic. I don't know. Kind of a net positive, right? There's that part of the narrative. Steven? Well, Andrew kind of just talked a little bit about my point? If you go back to the early days of eBay, if anybody remembers, they had huge outages. I don't know if it was centralized, but that could help cause a blockchain's outage. It depends on what part of the...

This is boomer talk. Blockchains are not meant to have, it's not a centralized service. It's meant to be, yeah, it's not meant to, literally it's the fundamental principle of a blockchain is that it's meant to function. And if there is a lot of volume, then that means transaction fees increase

and you have to try and figure out how to increase throughput. But the whole function it literally if that is the comparison then solana is a piece of shit we need someone we need someone that understands the technicals i think because a blockchain should never have an outage that was the nature of my quote unquote commentary about a year ago simon is is that Solana, to what degree or what percentage their network is based on centralized servers, whether it's AWS and the like. Again, I'm not familiar with what those percentages are, but you're right. If it's a quote unquote blockchain, you know, this type of stuff, you know, shouldn't happen.

And yet it does. So, again, we're back to the question about narrative and about price and adjustments to price when something like this happens. There's different dynamics at play. There's your movement. Someone. Go ahead, Matt and Stephen. Oh, I was just going to add. I mean, it's true. It shouldn't generally happen, but it has happened throughout history.

I mean, Bitcoin's gone down twice. It's just in its early days. So what do you mean by gone down? You mean it forked? It had a network outage. Yeah, it had a network outage in 2010. It had a network outage in 2013. 2013 was due to a fork that sort of failed and disagreed.

So it's not impossible, particularly in the early stages. And I think Solana is still very early. Again, I don't think it's great. I see the Solana armies in the comments kind of defending Solana. Yeah, let's bring someone up to Solana. Yeah, yeah. Look, I brought up, Stephen, I know you didn't finish. I'll let you finish off before we go to Beat Broker.

I know you were very passionately sending all these emojis when you requested. So I'm not sure how you could add to this. But I do want to ask, before you go, Beat Broker, I do want to ask the audience, if there's anyone technical, we try to invite a few just to short notice. If anyone technical could maybe explain this a bit further for us i know solana hasn't hasn't commented on the outage yet as far as i'm aware but if there's anyone technical that give us different scenarios and whether we should be concerned uh please do request and maybe also

dm me so so i know what your experience is but steven did you have anything more to add on this before we go to Beat? Well, I was just going to say there's been decentralized services. I understand that you're saying it's not supposed to be a blockchain, but they're not all blockchains

in the sense that, you know, we're talking about an idealistic sense. So the centralized exchanges, we've had these experiences over the last 10 years where the coin bases

have caused the throughput where it looks like it's been the you know caused by the blockchain And so you've seen those over time Solana's volume has increased and so we don't really know how much of it, you know what their back end is being used To the essentialized services for itself. So it's it may not be the blockchain itself that's causing the problem. Peter, I saw I was looking at your profile before bringing you up. I know you're pretty deep in the Solana NFT ecosystem. So maybe give us an update on the sentiment there and also why you were disagreeing with the panel earlier.

Not necessarily disagreeing, but just a point that to speculate on why the network was down at this point, I think it's a disservice to everybody. We don't know the technicals behind it. It could have been a planned event. What we have to keep in mind is we just saw the Jupiter airdrop on Solana go off without a hitch. That was the largest airdrop across any ecosystem ever accomplished. And it didn't even put a dent in the ecosystem. So this could be an adjustment after that fact, preparing for future stuff forward. And I think Solana made it about 360 some odd days without a single outage. And the other thing i i don't think the fact that

it goes down for a moment whether it's for an upgrade or for um some some sort of repair i don't think that negates the fact that it's a blockchain i i don't think those two are are are are... Let me read out... Hold on. Let me read out a few comments and DMs I've gotten. So, VZ here said, Solana's down because of network congestion. The only reason why they ever shut down the network.

It happened so many times. You've got Sam, who's been on the space many times, runs a pretty big crypto project. Some of you would know him from the early space days. I'd assume this is a validator node issue. I suspect Solana will confirm soon. And we've got here, obviously we're all speculating here.

We've got here, another person says, blockchain still needs servers. It will happen. However, the third party manipulative interests don't exist as it doesn't tradify. Small player manipulations

can occur though, but not huge market maker manipulations. And last one, Solana's, okay, that's a bit different. So it's just some theories. Nobody on this basis was

using conjecture about why the outage happened. In fact, we all defaulted to hey, we're not sure why the outage happened and technically we don't know yet. In fact, all of us said that. So if anybody wants to get in their feelings about us talking about it, I mean, that's your prerogative.

But we all defaulted to we don't know yet. And we'll find out when we find out. But this is what confuses me. In an open source project, everyone knows exactly what's coming. If you're forking and there's an there's something that goes wrong with that fork then that that creates a new chain um if we're asking who switched off the network in itself then we're literally not dealing with anything decentralized here it's just the most strangest conversation the nobody like when you're talking about the bitcoin thing a bug is identified it's

an open source project people put forward improvement proposals it gets packed it gets patched into the code it's completely open source so the fact that we're even relying on all the company needs to tell us what's happened here implies to me that we're not even we're dealing with a centralized ecosystem here, which is the fundamental problem of what Bitcoin, sorry, what blockchains try to solve. Yeah, I'm just going through the comments. This is a good one. A lot of things will cause a lot of that.

Great explanation. Thanks, Garmin. But yeah, I'm just going through. If there's any other interesting explanations to read out. But I think we've covered it well. A lot of the comments are saying, look, they've been down, you know, what, three, four times before. So that shouldn't be too big of a concern.

But yes. I think it's a concern because it's been so long. And if you asked in all the interviews and conversations we've had about it, was we fixed it. Right. And it won't happen again. So I think it's definitely a nightmare to see it, I think, happening again. When

Solano's pumping, one of the things that people said is like, hey, it hasn't gone down in whatever, almost a year. And that's one of the reasons why it's getting a lot of attention. And now it's gone down again. But again, we don't have an explanation from Solano. Tiger, anything to add on that one? Yeah.

I think the point that's being missed too is like you're acting i think you guys are acting like the people using this chain care like i don't think you understand who you're dealing with you're dealing with a bunch of absolute degenerates don't give a fuck the chain goes down here and there no like i'm being serious like i don't know how often you guys interact with jane but i interact with him all the time. And I'm going to tell you right now, nobody cares about this. They're going to be like, all right, I can't wait to ape my next shit coin. They don't care.

And I think, I don't remember who else said it earlier, but it's a valid point. How many times has AWS gone down? How many times has fucking Google gone down? And Meta's properties? Did you sell the stock because – But should you be comparing it to those or should you be comparing it to – I think that you should be comparing Solana to a – are there major consumer applications?

Yes, I think you should. Let me read out. Let me read out. It's a good explanation. I've just pinned it above from Matthew Siegel siegel thanks to people in the comments sending it through solana adage what has about less than an hour ago bpf loader the berkeley packet filter which is the mechanism to deploy upgrade and execute programs on solana failed this seems to relate to previous previous solana improvement proposal that altered some of the features

including the adding of a blocker all right right, it's very technical, things outside my pay grade, but you can all check it out. I don't know if you guys saw this, but just the last thing is that Phantom Downloads, so the native wallet for Solana, actually exceeded Coinbase downloads for, I think, the first or second time. So obviously there's been a lot of activity on the network the last few months and more recently. So just growing pains.

Yeah, and obviously, for me, I look at the price. If I want to determine, I know a lot of people don't like to do that, but I thought everyone's analysis, everyone's thoughts, everyone's speculation on how serious this is will be reflected to an extent in the price. And the price doesn't seem to be overreacting. But you could – Okay, Mario. Here's a technical explanation. So basically there was a planned upgrade, and there is something within that upgrade that has led to an outage the fact that like no one

even like yeah the the people involved in this ecosystem weren't really involved and understanding that there's some kind of upgrade um it implies that people aren't really following the you know the the development and this type of thing but then they're looking to yeah but then they're looking to a particular it looks like centralized group or something in order to fix the problem and give them an announcement so the analogy i think would it be fair to say like you know we're still early. I know it's an overused term, but we are still very early. Decentralization is a process, and a lot of it is experimenting. Well, Solana is meant to be the third largest, most important part of the ecosystem here.

Like, this is the Ethereum killer, right? This is the one that's saying everyone can migrate over from Ethereum over here. Yeah. Well, look, for anyone in the audience, let us know in the bottom right corner in that purple bubble what you think of this, whether that concerns you, especially those within the ecosystem. If you want to check out the explanation by Matthew Siegel, I've pinned it above. I've also pinned, should have mentioned it earlier. There's the show that me and Ran were judging on, The Shark Tank of Crypto. That's going to go live in two days.

So you can watch it. And there's a few clips I've posted on my account. I post a new one every day. And there's one pinned on my account. But you can see the trailer, the new trailer, just pinned above on the space. So if you want to watch it, I think there's a link there on where you could watch it.

It's pretty entertaining. So I want to give them a shout out. So it's pinned above, along with the explanation by Matthew Siegel. But look, I think we've covered it well, Scott. We'll discuss it again tomorrow. We'll get a bunch of people from the ecosystem and probably we'll have some sort of comment from Solana

that we could use to kind of get a bit more insight. But I think we've covered everything pretty well. I know, there's more narrow D listed. So maybe it goes to your quick thoughts. Yeah, we talked about it at the beginning. There was kind of nobody here. Oh yeah, we did. Yeah, we talked about it at the beginning. There was kind of nobody here. Oh, yeah, we did. Yeah, but I think it's literally just centralized exchanges getting in line with regulation and delisting privacy coins.

And I have to imagine that Monero has extremely low volume at this point, so probably a lot less downside to just delist it and probably, well, a ton of downside by keeping it and being, you know, sort of against regulation or what they think might be coming. Sorry, Scott, where's it delisted from? Binance is del know, Monero is a privacy-centric coin, and it is the one that has the most traction when people started to discover that Bitcoin on Silk Road wasn't so anonymous. And it's a really interesting debate because Binance is obviously now being taken, you know, they've got the Ins insight inspector as a result of the settlement. And so there's no real argument when things like the travel rule come through where you need to know when you're a centralized entity,

you need to know the location of the recipient and you need to provide data to where it's going to. With Monero, that's very problematic. So this is where there's a lot of friction in the growth days of Bitcoin, whether we should introduce code changes that made it more privacy centric and zero knowledge and various other things. But the challenges with this is with Bitcoin, you've kind of got this compromise, which is if you commit crime with Bitcoin, you create an immutable record. And a lot of criminals are getting caught because even if it's like seven to eight or 10 years later, they're creating those immutable records and then eventually they're connecting identity. And then once you can make that connection, you've got you don't have plausible deniability whereas with monero it's like this whole privacy side so monero you'd expect to be pure utility

but the downside is that you'd expect it over time to be delisted from all of the exchanges because a pure privacy coin and a centralized entity in the end are highly likely to be compatible. And this is probably the first signal that a company like Binance, once it falls within more regulations that you start to see delisting of privacy coins, you may see things like Dash and various other ones that were built around this privacy ecosystem next. I agree. Yeah, I think that's a better summary. Mario, you're a little robotic.

So, yeah, I think we can go ahead and cut it and come back tomorrow. Yeah, I just disconnected my Bluetooth. But I think we've covered everything, Scott. And I think we're just going to cover Solana a bit more tomorrow. And, yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Yeah, thank you, everyone. Have a good one. Thanks, everyone. Enjoy your day, I think that's pretty much it. Yeah, thank you, everyone. Have a good one. Thanks, everyone.

Enjoy your day. We'll see you tomorrow, same time as always. Bye, everyone. Thanks for the panel.