The Wolf Of All Streets - TAO Pumping, BTC/ETH/Gold/Silver Up is the Worst Over? #CryptoTownHall

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

In this episode of Crypto Town Hall, the hosts and guests discuss Bitcoin’s impressive resilience amid global uncertainty and geopolitical tensions, with BTC holding steady while traditional safe-haven assets like gold and silver experienced sharp volatility. The conversation explores tokenization trends, the evolving role of AI agents in crypto, and why native digital assets may hold unique long-term value. They also touch on prediction markets, regulatory developments, and the importance of disciplined risk management in uncertain times.

Just you and me and Jamie, huh? We had to spin it back up. Dave, you're here. Jamie, you're here. Yeah, I'm here. That goes, way. Hey, we tried. It's weird how this space seems to crash more than others.

I don't really understand why. It's kind of sad, but. We say negative things about the platform. That's why. We talk about it crashing, so they crash us. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, neither do I. That was a joke.

Although they do seem out to get you, Dave. Yeah, I mean, you know, the problem is, is like, X is terrible at understanding sarcasm. So I always try, I mean, you pull it off. Every time I try to do something sarcastic, people think I'm serious. So it's like I give up. It really is that.

It's too bad because, you know, I don't know if you can DM Gore of or get him. But I think that, you know, BitTenzer is an interesting one because every other A, related everything went frigging nuts and it didn't. And I think it's because a lot of people don't understand it. And so that's interesting. But, you know, I think that the like the notion in crypto of total addressable market, it drives everyone crazy.

Like there's a story out today. I don't know if you saw this one from it was in Wired magazine. It was talking about a real estate tokenization plan that, you know, basically cost people some crazy amount of money. And the thing about all tokenization is the asset itself has to be real. You know, you can represent it on the blockchain, but the blockchain doesn't prove that the properties have value or whatever. And I think that, you know, people always forget that. It's like, you know, tokenize gold. Like, oh, you can tokenize gold. Great. How do you know that the gold is real? How do you know that the gold hasn't been stolen? How much, you know, how do you protect it,

etc., etc.? It's all based on the same thing. What tokenization does is, makes increases the velocity, makes it easier to know. You know, it's, there's the, it, but if you're Bitcoin, it's natively digital, so you don't have to do that. And so you know what it is. And so native assets, things that AI agents are going to use will be valuable and demonstrably so, because the AI agent will be able to say, oh, okay, I know this is because it's purely digital. That's this, that's the ultimate irony in my mind of all of crypto is that the people who hate it, say nothing that you can't touch and feel with your hand has value. But what's really good become valuable is the ability to instantly know that something is,

is as it is claimed to be, which requires it to be natively digital. I don't know if you ever, it's sort of one of these big thoughts, but you know, as we wait for people to get back on here, I mean, I think it's an important one.

Have you ever thought about it that way, Scott? Yeah, I think it's accurate. I just, I think when I think about it. about why Tao might be going up or why Z-Cash was going up or any of these. I think, like you said, it just didn't go when the AI craze was kind of happening. I think it just has to catch that moment where it gets a narrative.

And like, you know, the more cynical view is that a bunch of people get together and decide it's time for that thing to go up. Yep. Which I think is what happened with Z-Cash. But either way, it just kind of goes over a tipping point and becomes the thing of the moment. The problem is they never last. Yeah. Well, they never last if they're not real.

I mean, like, the ones that do last or have lasted, you know, are those that get, quote, communities. And communities, you know, is a euphemism for true believers who don't really critically think in most cases. I mean, Jamie, I mean, you see this all the time, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, and, you know, I was thinking about as we're talking. I mean, like, you know, because this is a crypto show. So you kind of talk a little bit more about it. I do the Bitcoin spaces so I don't really bring it up.

But last year, it was April 4th, I actually published a 25 All-Coin Index, you know, broadly and primarily because of this right here. Like we just didn't know what's going to take off, what to put money behind. But I knew that like a lot of these, you know, blockchains were not going to go to zero. And there is largely narrative driven. So, you know, how do you place yourself or how do you get exposure to that without, and pick one and not the loser? So, you know, I had 25 all coin index equally weighted, broadly positioned between the narratives, RWA, AI, stable coin rails, memes, the, you know, the Dex's, IOT, you know, privacy came up this year.

ZK never really materialized. But it's funny, I was able to have 20 out of 25 of those be in profit by just taking the volatility of those and transferring it into rebalancing into Bitcoin. Again, you know, I don't bring it up on the Bitcoin's basis because it's not very popular. You see that you buy Bitcoin, hold Bitcoin, that's it. We don't care if other things profit. But as Bitcoin had the down year last year and having a full year of looking at it, it actually worked out, you know, to benefit. And I think you kind of have to do that going forward right now because we're still trying to see who are going to be the winners. Where is it going to, where is the value going to be? And until that really presents itself, you know, it may benefit you to be more broadly placed than being more concentrated. Tau is something that was in that portfolio and I was able to rebalance and accumulate some Bitcoin this last week because of that. But I didn't know when it was going to happen. So like to your point, you know, being positioned prior to the moves was important. because you just don't know where and when it's going to move.

Well, there's a broad point there, right, which is, you know, and Matt's not here, but Matt Hogan has been pushing, you know, for index products in crypto. I mean, I, you know, my gut has always been that there will be, that the total value of non-Bitcoin crypto will continue to go higher, but that I have no clue, well, not no clue, but limited clue as to what the winners will be and why. I mean, I know a couple of. things for sure. I know that the expectations in the crypto communities that are the largest are absolutely out of their fucking minds. I mean, I don't care what people say, but, you know, the notion that a token

that is used by a vertical that might, the entire vertical might sum up to $10 trillion of all the companies all around the world. And the notion that a piece of, of utility that they're using as part of their business, would ever be more than a percent or two of that is just stupid. It's just dumb because companies will find other ways to do their business. They're not going to pay away most of their business in a piece of it. It's like asking for the steel that goes in the railroads that are used by the railroads to be more valuable than the railroad. I mean, it's just not going to be the case. But yet that is the thesis that, you know, the ex-RP army, you know, believes. And I just, my brain just doesn't understand why they look at that. Now, that doesn't make SRP necessarily a terrible investment.

Doesn't make that at all. I mean, it could very well be worth more than it is today, just not what these idiots claim is going to be worth. And the same thing is true. But the problem with that narrative is when normal regular financial types listen to people in crypto, they think that's what crypto is. And they go, well, the whole thing is stupid. And so, you know, you get these sorts of tribal nonsense. And, you know, Gary, you're up here. And, This is true with virtually every crypto. I mean, I'm picking on XRP now because it's fun to do so and they get so upset. But the truth is that, you know, there's a lot of sophomoric nonsense in the crypto world in terms of the way it's talked about.

And that turns off people from adoption or studying or understanding what it really means. And that's something that we see all the time. I'm trying to get you to say something, Gary. I don't know if you're behind the mic. Yeah. I know. Thank you. that. No, no, thank you. Look, I, you know, I wouldn't bet on any of these tokens. Like, I don't, I don't get it.

I've been in a few of them and I've done poorly. But I'm not a market timer. I'm not, I'm not going to ever be an expert on 20,000 tokens or 20,000 of anything. you know, what I do know is Bitcoin is behaving exceptionally well here. Exceptionally well, dude. I don't think anyone expected Bitcoin to hold this level with all of this chaos. I mean, this is chaos that is unparalleled. Unparalleled. I don't think that's hyperbolic. I agree.

And Bitcoin has been, you know, like, it's just doing fucking unparalleled. Unbelievable, man. Well, I expected to get three weeks ago. Sellers are exhausted. And when sellers are exhausted, this is what you see. I mean, really, I hate to be pedantic about it. But, you know, I think that that's what we've been seeing. And, you know.

But I don't know how anyone builds a case to go into any of these tokens. I mean, I'd love to see some of the audits on these guys that can do this. And my hat's off, Tom. If I could see some stats, I would probably allocate some money to one of these guys. who are looking at this 18 hours a day, but I am not convinced that the math will prove out that you can buy boo-boo, boo-boo, boo-boo, and flip it over to Bitcoin and get more Bitcoin and hold that Bitcoin for the duration. I just, I'm just not that smart, so I've got to be real simple, pack and stack, and just keep going. To me, that's the player. It just is

so simple. Right. I, and it works exceptionally. well for goal for the people that held on to it for five years and the last like everything we see and no bitcoin should be bitcoin should do exceptionally well here i think we have 12 to 14 months for bitcoin to really take off here and i'm not trying to be really bullish and get people to go do anything because i think there's too much of that shit right now quite frankly uh too many people going hey it's going to 150 000 and like shut up man like you know shut the fuck up like who knows what it's going to do right now. We're in uncharted territory. So, you know, my thesis is, hey, I came in here for Bitcoin to be that, that store value that would be solid when the market

rolled over. And here we are. So we're going to find out sooner than later, I think, and we don't need a strategic reserve. I don't know why everybody thinks we're going to get that. We're not going to get a strategic reserve with Bitcoin $1.3 billion. You don't even have the audit. Don't want it, don't need it. It's holes. Exactly. We don't even know how much Bitcoin we even have in the quote-unquote

strategic reserve that we've held or any of the other digital stockpile. That was one of the first promises. Yeah. We don't audit shit, dude. We don't know what's in, I love your post this morning, Scott. We don't know what's in Fort Knox either. I mean, it's, yeah.

That's kind of my point. Trust me, bro. trust me bro the united states government has a lot of bitcoin so did maduro trust me bro yeah i i i don't trust anything i mean i i posted something this morning you know thomas young and i are having a conversation you know about stuff and it's like if you want to know the one religion i can't stand it's statism because i don't trust governments it's really it's really that simple you know absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that so yeah i made the joke yesterday that i keep getting called i have uh being told i have TDS because I'm, I don't know, I guess it's a crazy opinion to think that war is bad. But I keep being told I have TDS.

And I said, well, my TDS is bad. My BDS for Biden was much worse, which means I must just have GDS, which is government, you know, derangement syndrome because just anti-government. Yeah, I have. I definitely have. I wouldn't call it derangement, the government skepticism. I have BFDS. That's bullshit derangement syndrome.

Yeah. I mean, look, it, I, the thing about this war, that I find amusing is how so many people are so certain of opinions that they can't possibly know to be true. I mean, I just, how do you comment on situation that you know you don't have good information on? I just, I don't mean, and I'm talking both sides. I don't really care. This is not, this isn't, you know, like all the doomers are saying, oh, my God, the world's going to be, you know, going to go in nuclear fire, blah, blah, blah.

This is going to bad shit's going to happen. Trump is killing us, da-da-da, and all his supporters saying, oh, look, Look what he's doing. We don't know. I mean, and yes, we have to try to figure it out if you're an investor. So the only thing that I know for sure, there's one thing for sure. There's no version of the aftermath of this war that doesn't involve massive new deficit spending. Of course.

It's the only thing we know for sure. Which is why we're at war. Look, there's lots of things we don't know, but we do know that. And so, you know, when people were saying yesterday, gold was going to go back down to, you know, McLone was saying, you know, just moronic stuff about 100-year highs, you know, in or 10-year, decade highs in silver and gold, and we've already seen it. I'll take the other side of that all day long because, not because in a world of fixed dollars, he's wrong, because in fixed dollars, he may very well be right.

But we're going to pump a shit ton of dollars into the system because we have to. And that's what, you know, that's why I think that, you know, I think that, I keep saying gold equilibrium is already in 5,000 to 5500 now, but the equilibrium post is going to be much higher. So, you know, who the hell knows. And the same is true for Bitcoin and Spades, because Bitcoin is literally 1 20th of the price it will be if, in fact, it gains that, that critical adoption to be digital gold. And so ask yourself, where do you want to put your money? I mean, I like that bet. Does that mean it doesn't mean it's going to work?

Anyone who thinks you're getting one-to-one odds on a 20-to-one payoff, well, I mean, I got news for you. You're the person I want sitting at the poker table with me, right? You're not. I mean, Bitcoin is, it's not guaranteed to do anything. It is, however, much more likely to do to create that 20-to-1 payoff than the market is pricing it. That's simply the way I look at it. I mean, Gary, I assume that's sort of the way you look at it as well, right? Because it's all math.

Yeah, it's, look, to me, this is a smart and a dumb man's trade here. You just don't, you just sit down and don't do anything. I saw, I saw Scott's comment today to Iran. It's like, dude, just chill out and just buy Bitcoin. This play is going to work, folks. This play is most certainly going to work. I was up really late last night, and I was thinking, every time I've done one of these, I've always gone through the period where everybody's like,

you're fucking crazy, dude. this play is going to work so well and it just really, really excites me because no person, and there's a lot of smart people in this community, not one of us have gotten this right. And I find that really, really exciting. I find that to be, like,

I have no clue what crude oil is going to do. Like, crude oil and Oman dropped $90 today. $90, man. We're being given a gift, right? Totally, dude. I think so. There's enough uncertainty that the price is depressed for longer than we would have anticipated, which means more opportunity to buy before the inevitable happens, regardless of what timeline that's on.

Bingo. Exactly. That is exactly the way that I look at it, which is why, you know, I did a podcast yesterday on, I guess it's on crypto banter, so it'll come out whenever it comes out. And the point that I was trying to make, which is the simple one is, if you believe what you just said to be true, don't make the mistake I made in the last cycle of over levering. And learn from that. You know, it's like, don't get yourself washed out. Be able to sleep at night.

You know, it's important because, as Gary says, there's just so much going on in the world. And, you know, all these people who claim to know, I just, you know, I just find it funny how people are so certain of, in an uncertain time. And, you know, I know people get annoyed because it doesn't get engagement when I say, well, it's uncertain. So here's what you do and, you know, et cetera. And you give real advice. But that real advice isn't by this because you're going to 1,000 X your money and become rich.

But, David, it's a little frustrating for the public. You know, you read stuff like Raoul today said a million dollars in 2027. It's like, dude, I quit telling you. telling that to people. Like, like, you know, there's some really smart people, but people are saying things that just don't make any sense whatsoever to me. How do you get to a million dollars by 2027? I mean, anything is possible, Gary, but. Yeah, I know, but dude, like, you know, you could say 300, okay? You could give it a serious haircut and you're still doing awesome. I, I just find it funny how people care about these price predictions. I mean, Jamie, is that a legacy hand?

Well, they must care. They must care about them, dude, because you got, you got really, you know, relevant people spouting no maybe they just want followers i don't know maybe that's the deal but yeah maybe i should try an experiment for a week just just come up to say a bunch of outrageously stupid shit and see if that that increases follower counts but works well works well we're are going to go to or in a minute but i want to give jamie's head his uh hand out so go ahead jamie and wrap us up here yeah i mean you know i don't know if you look at it you step back a little bit i I mean, you know, we were under, we were about two and a half trillion of total market cap. I mean, we were at about three trillion, which is like, was the top, was the top of the total mark cap last cycle, right?

But I mean, if you just- But Jamie, a trillion of that shit, dude, a trillion of those dollars, not to interrupt you, but a trillion of those dollars goes to zero, dude. Well, yeah, I mean, but, I mean, it's a good point. I mean, obviously that's going to happen. But, you know, you know, if it's last cycle of his end of T, T, you know, it's last cycle of his NFT, and a lot of that went to nothing and this one's memes and loud it's going to go to nothing like i get it you know but like we talked about like bitcoin has 60% of the of a total market cap so like that's what it has maintained now going forward like just like it did last cycle like say this we get to the

place where this whole total market market 10xes and so you know if you're at 3 trillion you're going to be at 30 trillion you know bitcoin's going to capture at least 60% of that that's the foundation. That's what you start with. That takes Bitcoin to a 900,000 a price. The when that happens is irrelevant, but just looking at it in the broader sense and how that's going to happen. It also means that 40% of the rest of the ecosystem is also going to get elevated whatever doesn't go to zero. And you can place some of those bets. If you're talking about, because this is

crypto, you know, Ethereum or Shalana, some of those chains that you believe will make it. Maybe some of the, you know, the Dex under that because that's where the volume is going to be. You know, you can, this is to me, compared to last cycle, you know, we had to take a lot more risk to get a lot more potential up, you know, multiples where this one, you can go with a lot of the large blockchains that have been established, have been made through multiple cycles, have, you know, for example, like Ethereum or, you know, or Salana that we talked about, like it seemed more likely they're going to be here then go to zero.

And you can get multiples without taking the type of risk where we had to go into, you know, really small or microcaps last cycle to get those kind of same returns. So, you know, the way I would look at it is in a broader sense, more patience, like you mentioned, expecting that this whole mark cap's going to expand. And then having 60% at least Bitcoin caption that. And then if you want to dabble and place some other bets with blockchains that you believe may not go to zero, you know, there's another 40% of value that's going to be elevated with Bitcoin as it comes up. It can't survive by itself. It's going to be some use cases that are going to be in other blockchains until, you know, innovation is, you know, accelerated on the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Yeah, agree. And thank you there. And we were talking about actually prediction markets earlier. So it's great that we have Oren coming up now, Orrin Herskov, the CEO of M of X. I wanted to give him the sponsor slot today because you guys had, well, you reported earnings.

You had a huge announcement today. Really incredible numbers. 1.23 billion net income profit, EPS, $25. You know, obviously an important milestone for you guys. Oren, how do you think about this in the broader context of everything that you're building? And maybe you should just give us the TLDR because you have an extremely novel setup.

Yeah, so hi, Scott. Thanks for having, yeah, definitely a big moment for us. You know, we see this moment as an initial expression of our repeatable and scalable, you know, capital strategy, which is aligned with the growth of the prediction markets as a financial category supporting our, what we call our dual engine model strategy, and we can talk about us a little bit more.

Yeah, I mean, feel free to dive into it. that obviously you know I okay yeah you're kind of you have the quality longevity company powered by powered by a prediction markets treasury so this is definitely a different approach the treasury market with an actual company on the other side completely totally agree well you know the times have changed and and we needed to respond to that so what we're doing today is really unique we're kind of combining two powerful capabilities so on the one hand we're advancing our clinical stage immunotherapy, which is a platform focused on common underserved longevity-related

diseases such as osteoarthritis, where we believe we can deliver a meaningful therapeutic impact on the quality of extended longevity, right? So it's not just about longevity, it's about how do you spend that time. And we think with our therapy, we can provide really a substantial therapeutic value to those aging population. And at the same time, we have built a treasury architecture designed to capture the value of this emerging prediction markets economy that I think everybody is, you know, familiar with.

Specifically, in our strategy, it's anchored around the Uranne decentralized prediction market protocol. And we believe that this dual engine structure can provide the public market investors is exposure to both the emerging prediction market infrastructure, while it allows us to continue to advance our clinical development programs focusing on improving the health span and quality of life. So it's really a unique. I think we're doing here something which is really innovative

that potentially provide to assure all the value two pillars that they can benefit from. So it's a unique approach in that you're integrating basically prediction markets infrastructure into a public company, which I don't think we've seen at all. So what made you comfortable taking that step? Where did you come up with that idea and how did you actually execute that? Right. So as I said, you know, times has changed and let me maybe take you back a little bit to the decision process. So when we evaluated a treasury strategy, we were looking for the digital asset that. that portfolio that can provide real utility and real adoption and really long-term structural growth.

Many companies selected Bitcoin, for example, as their strategy, but we wanted to look for something different that can provide a differentiating factor. So we believe that prediction markets meets all of those free criteria. And we're already seeing this reflected right in the strong trading volumes and this really exponential rapid growth. of this market, of the sector. And on top of that, we're seeing increasing institutional engagement, right? With the investments in Cali and polling markets, for example. So within that sector, within prediction market,

claim clearly that we want to be part of this. And this is at early stages, relatively very stages, we wanted to take part of this. And we selected Rain Protocol and Rain Token as our primary digital treasury reserve assets. because it's really fully decentralized permissionless global and designed to scale protocol allowing anyone anywhere in any language to create a market. So this is really coexist alongside with what decentralized prediction markets provides. And once we saw, you know, the institutional backing of that, that made us very, very comfortable

to execute that strategy. and we did a transformative pipe financing in November that allow us to purchase substantial amount of rain tokens. And on top of that, and as part of that transaction, to receive an option that we just announced that we extended it to the next end of 27, an option to acquire additional about more than $900 million of the rain token at a price, which is.

is about 65% discount to the price that is currently, to the current price of the rain tokens. So that's also a substantial option for us to generate yield from this strategy. So how should people think about the role of the treasury then within the company beyond the short-term market movements? So currently we're the largest corporate holder of rain and we plan to continue this buy and hold strategy.

So as I said before, while we think, and it's not just us, clearly that prediction markets will continue to grow exponentially. We think that rain will continue to grow substantially alongside with that. So behind the short-term market movements, we are planning to utilize yield enhancement activities, and that can lead to our performance of the token. And we are planning to use these yields to increase our treasury holdings, on the one hand,

and allocate a small portion of it to push forward our clinical program, which is at late stage for a really huge unmet medical condition and a huge market, as I said before. So I think it's a dual-engine strategy, and that's the way people should look at it. So obviously, I think you are straddling between multiple industries here, but you really, I would imagine, are firmly in traditional biotech. I mean, or biotech, is that fair to say? Yeah. Yeah.

The legacy is the biotech and now, yeah, the prediction market exposure as an additional engine, I would say. So obviously, I would imagine that funding and biotech, or so I've heard, is a continuous challenge. So how does what you're doing change the way that you think about, I guess, financing, like the innovation of financing? Well, that's an excellent question. I think it's completely an innovative approach to financing, right? funding was always challenging, but really for early stage biotech company that became extremely difficult in the past two years. And I can talk for hours about that. But that was one of the drivers that pushed us into looking for an innovative approach. And the innovation here enables us to

self-fund our clinical operation from a small percent of the appreciation of our treasury assets and avoid the classical model of getting into a milestone and then potentially do additional financing within the environment of the market, in many cases, it means pretty toxic terms. So we can control that ourselves today. And I think this is an innovative financing strategy that we're kind of establishing here.

Do you think that, I mean, just as an aside, Do you think that that's sort of the future of financing? I mean, we've heard about crypto being used for, you know, kind of crowdsourcing or for raising capital, you know, outside of the current system. I mean, do you think that that's where the trend will go based on your experience? I think that that's definitely one of the possible ways that it can go. I mean, since the circumstance has changed so dramatically, you know, once in a while you're seeing new infrastructure. financial infrastructure for companies to raise money. And I think what we're seeing here is one of the new directions for sure.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So I guess now you guys have reported you had huge earnings. So you're clearly, I imagine looking ahead. So what are the key milestones right now that you would say you're focused on? And I guess from both sides, clinical side and at the company and treasury level. Right. So our working assumption is that the prediction market system continue to thrive, right, in the next decade.

It's so, and alongside with that, the growth of the centralized and decentralized prediction market, and they're going to be a substantial growth in decentralized prediction market just because it provides another layer that you cannot accomplish with the classical centralized one. And we think rain will be the leading one in the prediction market. And that's as time goes by, the Rain Foundation and the Rain Protocol will grow, allow us to benefit more and more from our strategy, generating more yield, generating, increasing our holdings, and progressing in parallel our clinical development. We've announced an FDA approval to initiate our phase-to-be study two days ago, and we're expecting to get significant substantial data from a large phase-to-be.

study in 2027 that will allow us to move into a phase three trial and hopefully later on to commercial setting and these two pillars would define our scalability of the method and and

you know many more milestones to come in the next two years so anything else that I missed I mean that you want to share with us while we got you well now I think we cover the main points We're totally excited.

The team here is eager to move both engines forward, and this is just the first step. Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate you jumping up. Congratulations on the big news, and we'll look forward to having you back for an update, not so far down the road. Same here.

Thank you very much. And, yeah, thanks to everybody else. That got us to time. So thanks to the panel. Thanks everybody for coming back after we crashed. We somehow got back to over 3,000 people. That's pretty awesome. I'm glad that we were able to get back up.

And, you know, Dave Maricio, Jamie, Gary. And I see Carlo there. Good morning, Carlo. Good morning, Scott. That's all you get today. I had to get it in. Hey, I put out a piece. People can go to my profile and look at it,

but I broke down what happened yesterday with Circle and the stock crashing and my take on it, if anyone's curious. But I promised I joined today, and I had to get out of court to make it here, but I did. So, good morning, Scott. Sorry, we didn't have more. time, but we'll get into it on Friday for the next show. Thank you, everybody. We will see you on Friday.