The Wolf Of All Streets - The Biggest Companies In The World Are Already Using Blockchain | Sunny Lu

Starting point is 00:00:00 Look at this, Token 2049. Actually, it's a very funny story. For example, oops. For example, when you drink coffee, you seem like very passionate about that, but I couldn't understand anything you said. What is the universal language? Fighting.

Starting point is 00:00:15 And actually, what really matters is people itself. It's what you do on a daily basis. It's how you're going to live your life. We often have long-winded conversations about when real companies and brands are going to adopt blockchain technology and really get into crypto. But there are companies and founders like Sunny Lu from VeChain who have been doing this for years working with the biggest brands in the world on supply chain management and other very important parts of their business. When you focus in on companies like this that are doing so much with so many people, it's

Starting point is 00:00:48 hard to be pessimistic about the future of crypto. I think I've told you this story before. Uh-huh. On Spaces. Yes. When I was on Fox Business. Right. With Charles Payne and the one project that you were excited about. And I said, well, none of them are really doing much.

Starting point is 00:01:13 Except for VeChain. Yeah, that's my owner. My owner, man. We're actually doing something. Real world technology. It's very hard. Mainstream adoption. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:01:23 So I went on TV and of all the things in the world, I didn't even know I said that. And your community was very excited. But what are you building now? I mean, what's the status with VeChain in this? Well, following the crypto cycle, right? Every four years, I usually call crypto cycle like a workout. So basically you work like very hard for the first three or even three and a half years and you're cheering for the last six months

Starting point is 00:01:49 in the bull market. But whatever you do in the first six months, first three and a half years, it really decides how high you can go and how much you can deliver. So basically we're just in the middle of the cycle and we're continuing to deliver the enterprise adoptions but on March 2023 this year we co-authored a white paper with BCG Boston Consulting Group to let's say deliver our upgraded strategy from enterprise adoption to sustainability. So we believe actually, you know, whatever the Web3 use case or the next level for enterprise adoptions, you know, whatever we did, like a food safety for Walmart,

Starting point is 00:02:35 carbon credits, battery management for BYD or a receipt project for an ocean cleanup, the next level must be in a Web3 way. The next level must be like sustainability. So that's the reason we're going to release the white paper. We're going to focus on sustainability implementations or building the sustainability use cases. Is that a full pivot new business or is this in addition to what you're already doing? No, actually, I would say it's like an upgrade level, but it's like 100% or in crypto space, we talk about like 200% focus in this area.

Starting point is 00:03:13 That's interesting. So the core business was always supply chain, correct? Well, supply chain... That's how you were known. That's where we get started started i would say more like enterprise adoptions and supply chain definitely is one of like let's say low-hanging fruits as a enterprise adoption but um i would say um it's it's an upgraded level um think about that supply chain is about managing or getting the business activities, right? Like the different steps in terms of the production, in terms of transportation, logistic, everything.

Starting point is 00:03:54 But once you get the data and proved by blockchain, what is the unique value out of the blockchain data or out of the data on the blockchain? And we believe you can get sustainability. So it's funny because there's this idea that there's no adoption of blockchain. That's not being used, that the mainstream doesn't care. But here you are working with the biggest companies in the world. Yeah, yeah. On real projects.

Starting point is 00:04:21 Yeah. Who are using your technology. Yeah. I'm pretty excited. But does it not crazy to you when you hear that That's we have been aiming like from the beginning to be honest Like you know when I when I got actually this year is my 10th year's anniversary to be in a crypto space I started in 2013 and

Starting point is 00:04:43 You know, I was working Louis Vuitton as a CIO. Basically my job was connecting the business to technology. When I get into the space, I've been to the different meetups, workshops, I always find like very interesting like only the technical geeks are in the space. And my job was kind of like understand both, right? So I was like, this is my opportunity because I can understand the codes, I can understand the technology, but I can also find a way to use that. So that was my passion.

Starting point is 00:05:16 That was my, you know, when I get started, I was like, try to get this technology in the real adoptions, in the real world adoptions. But what did you see in 2013 that made you think that this was possible? Because that's extremely early. There's a lot of people who would have said in 2018, right after this massive bull market, everybody knew about it. 2013, you had to be a true believer and to truly understand the technology. It is. It is. Actually, it is very hard, to be honest. honest because firstly at that time there was only bitcoin and some other uh let's say bitcoin liked

Starting point is 00:05:52 other coins colored coins yeah color coins yeah color coin is actually a very interesting technology we tried that because i tried to use the technology to build some applications so the first choice was ColorCoin actually, because you can mock up some specific coin, make them unique or special to able to, you know, let's say adopting the different applications, but it's still very hard. So I was, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:19 I was trying to talk to the different enterprises. At that time, they were all looking at like a consortium blockchain or even private blockchain. But later on in 2014 or 15, I had a chance to have the conversation with Vitalik actually. Actually he was part of the Fenbushi Capital. I think he is one of the GPs or something.

Starting point is 00:06:43 Shen Bo as the head of Fung Bushi Capital, basically helping Vitalik raise up the funds in China. So I had a quite interesting conversation with him. We spent some trip together to Chengdu, see a panda, you know. But during the conversations, I find out the smart contract, virtual machine,

Starting point is 00:07:03 technically can really make this huge. Can describe more complicated things. If we talk about Bitcoin as a ledger, ledger system, like Excel, right? But the virtual machine and Excel, sorry, virtual machine and smart contract can make real applications. That's where I get really really excited so after I talk to them talk to Vitalik and Shambul you know I start VeChain in later 2015 yeah I mean 2015 is still so it blows my mind so long ago it was hard for so long it was hard incredible so what are the biggest challenges now obviously I think

Starting point is 00:07:41 we have regulatory challenges you've even talked about the fact that you've been around this long, certain exchanges don't best you. You have the issue of maybe security. There's so many things out there. Are those distractions to what you're actually building or are those major things that you think about on a regular basis? Well, I think it's part of the job anyway. If you consider now, I think it's so much better than 2013 or 2015 or even 2018-19. Think about that, Mika is going to be effective January 2024. Like give every player's two years window to be regulated, which actually I'm pretty excited about that because it's going to pave the way for the enterprise adoptions. Honestly, if you consider about innovation or creation or embracing the new technology,

Starting point is 00:08:30 Europeans are usually slower than Asia or than, you know, Americans per se. So think about all of the partnerships or enterprise adoptions. BYD is in China, Walmart is American companies. Yeah, okay, Givenchy, Louis Vuitton, kind of European companies. But that actually based on my personal connection. I used to work there. So I think with Mika, there will be lots of enterprise and not only just focus on the supply chain management or track and trace, that kind of applications, but they are able to embrace the token utilities. That's, I'm really excited.

Starting point is 00:09:10 For sure, the biggest challenge I would say is how to convince them, right? How to find the unique value to use the token. But I think we find the answer, which is sustainability. So obviously you said you were the CIO of Louis Vuitton. You talk about Givenchy, all these luxury brands. What are you specifically doing with these brands? What is the integration?

Starting point is 00:09:32 What is the partnership? Actually, we had different brands. Some of the biggest brands, I'm not even able to say the name, they have a very restricted PR policy. But let's say Givenchy is more like a supply chain management so basically where you know they have multiple different third-party suppliers and also they not only have a retail stores like owned by themselves but also they manage the quite big boutique stores so how to track luxury goods from you know manufacturing from the raw materials to the manufacturing process to transportation

Starting point is 00:10:09 logistics until the retail stores. It's quite harsh because the different players have to connect it to the single system by using the smart contract using the you know the data on the blockchain People can have you know people doesn't have to worry about the integrity of the data. So that's where we started with. Actually it's a very funny story. Tell it. I know the CEO at that time, global CEO, Givenchy. He was my friend, also my boss when I was working with Louis Vuitton.

Starting point is 00:10:38 Anyway, it's the same group, right? So I went to Philip's office. LVMH is a pretty good yes of course um number one luxury group right so i went to philip's office i tried to seal him you know the blockchain solution vision solution uh in 2016 and i spent 30 minutes and he stopped me you know like i still talk about his stomach i say sunny you know it's You seems like a very passionate about that, but I couldn't understand anything you said. But just tell me what to do. So I asked him to, you know, give me one product line.

Starting point is 00:11:14 It's better like new launch product line. So actually he agreed to let us try Infinity Back, which was the first product line we tried. And since then, we have been going like expansion. They can see the benefits of all that. And eventually we cover like 100% of leather goods with them and also expand to other brands. What was the existing system that you're replacing? Because obviously all these brands managed to track their goods

Starting point is 00:11:42 before they found blockchain. I would say not like replace it but it's kind of like a connector connecting to the different systems for example we work with a logistics system we work with the sap with the manufacturing system so it's more like a super conduct connector connecting to the different system even the retail system. So basically, our system is more like a trusted data source. So you are able to feed the trusted data to the different sectors in the supply chain. But we're going to upgrade that to find a specific value you already on the data for example if it's a recycled material that could shows an extra value to sustainability that kind of concept

Starting point is 00:12:32 right and even get more engagement actually that was that was a one of the discussions with Philip like for our first meeting you know it's a it's a he always wants to let's say get the product to talk to the client directly. And how are you going to engage the users? How are you going to engage consumers or bring the consumers also part of the game? I think we need to find a specific topic, like everybody agrees, which is sustainability. I think it's a universal topic. It's like the biggest consensus of the humankind. I agree. Is there an element of interoperability with other chains that's going to be involved in that or is that not necessary? Sure. I think it's like, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:17 there are multiple cross-chain protocols and we just launched our own bridge as well. We're able to connect to Ethereum and we want to connect to the others as well. Because honestly, firstly, sustainability is for everyone and it cannot be relied on just one entity, one association. Even UNDP are not able to cover everything, right? Right. So we wanted to make it as inclusive and also open space. I don't even care like some application wants to build something on the other blockchains, Katano, Ethereum, I don't care.

Starting point is 00:13:54 As long as they can work with us, they want to be part of the team aiming for sustainability, I'm sure we have somewhere to collaborate with each other. So I think, you know, I came from a long way, right? In 2016, 2017, it's kind of like exclusive. When you try to invest some application, you say, okay, you want to develop your own vision. But honestly, I think right now, it should be more inclusive and open space. As long as you are able to, you know, build some application on sustainability,

Starting point is 00:14:28 as long as you try to bring the new concept, help people to understand what is sustainability, how to live in a sustainable life, using those small apps here and there, and, you know, I think we should be like an alliance alliance or a you know to to work on this topic together at what point do you think that blockchain replaces or V chain even specifically becomes the solution for sustainability and for supply chain and all those things how long does that take is there an obstacle

Starting point is 00:15:02 where people just still outright think we're all scammers and it's not gonna work or you can't even explain it to them it's too technical? I think it's getting there. It could be very soon to be honest. Firstly, I've been through like 13, 17, 21. Yeah, cycles never change. Three cycles, right? And now we're aiming to the next cycles and I'm sure the next cycles especially with whatever recent Franklin and also before the Black Rocks apply the ETF it kind of bring you know massive attention from from the market and those guys are serious money a serious funds going to look at the space so there they must have something like not only focus on speculation, they will drive people's attention,

Starting point is 00:15:47 they will drive the market's attention, looking for some, like as we talked in Mario's space, real world adoptions, right? So now, I think as long as we can have some small use cases, applications, can really help people to live in that kind of sustainable life. For example, when you drink coffee, you use mug other than a paper car. You drive an EV, you also get motivated.

Starting point is 00:16:15 And every small effort from an individual is able to be collective value. And you show the real value, reveal the collective value, make the bigger impacts, I think people will get that. And also all of the infrastructures, the wallet, the extensions, APIs, SDKs, those kind of the technology are getting more and more. And with the regulation, it's easier to go to the massive people. It's a real, I think the next all-time high will lead by the real-world adoptions.

Starting point is 00:16:49 We'll really be, let's say, adopted by massive crowds. So I think it's getting there. Maybe, you know, I would say, let's say two years, 2024, 2025, we're going to reach to the significant moment. But after that, another building, think about that. Another bear market, another time to build. Sure, that's a market correction, right? But people will build.

Starting point is 00:17:16 People will have, look at this, token 2049. I mean, the last bear market, 2049, is like nobody here. But now, even the beer market, you see like so many crowds here. And that means the players, that means the serious players are looking at that. They were built, right? They were looking at the real good models and start to build real meaningful applications

Starting point is 00:17:41 to change people's lives, to make the world better. Your shirt says UFC, VeChain. What's that about? We find that UFC is a very interesting sport, and actually not only sports but also entertainment. We were, let's say we try to make VeChain's story visible, you know, bring the massive exposure and visibility. So we were having internal discussions. What is the universal language? Not English, unfortunately.

Starting point is 00:18:13 Fighting. No, it's sports. Sports, right? Look at what the Matthew has changed to Miami, or even to the entire America. So we were talking about sports and music. There are two universal languages across the whole world. So what we try to do, we want to bring everyone's attention. I don't care if you speak Spanish, English, French,

Starting point is 00:18:38 Italian, you've got to join the game. You've got to be part of the, let's say, biggest campaign of the humankind to do the sustainability and make the world better. So our mission is try to aim to build one billion users platform in the next, I don't know, maybe two cycles or three cycles. So that's what we try to do.

Starting point is 00:19:01 So a decade. Yeah, a decade. I think it definitely can be done. It definitely can be done. Even less than a decade, maybe half a decade, we can make it happen. Yeah, I mean, when these things go exponential, it can happen incredibly fast. Yeah. Fat GPT and AI, obviously.

Starting point is 00:19:15 Yeah. We just need the killer app that's retail facing, which I feel like we haven't had yet. Yeah. Tools are quite over there. And imagine the, the explosion of, let's say exponential, let's say development of the technology evolvement, right? Like you mentioned, AI, big data, cloud, it's, blockchain itself, it's evolving super fast.

Starting point is 00:19:40 We always say like seven years, one year in crypto is kind of like seven years. Dog years. Yeah, it's like dog years. Yeah. So with the UFC, I would say we need to get people like to be aware of what we're doing, to be aware of our stories. And also from the last whole year, we find out it's the best engagement for the community you know it's it's not actually

Starting point is 00:20:06 my my saying or my comments it's from a VeChain community they say this is the best community engagement activity from around you know whole world so every time when we have a UFC fight it's like 42 fights every year everywhere in the world right right? Like last month, August, it was in Singapore. So we bring our VeChain community members coming, we have a hangout, we talk about the updates, we listen from the voice of the community, not only on the Twitter, but also like face to face. Better face to face than on Twitter.

Starting point is 00:20:40 So we have more inspirational conversations and then we enjoy the fights together. You know, we feel like it's really a memory. Like you can enjoy for many time, many long time. And you can share with your friends, share with your families and bring them in. And eventually we can do something meaningful together. And why is community so important?

Starting point is 00:21:00 You're building something that's boring and on the back end, right? Sustainability, supply chain, but then you have this passionate massive community on the front end. How do those two things come together? I think the community is eccentric in terms of the Web3 from the beginning, period. We talk about like Web1 is focused on the connectivity, right? People are focused on building up the infrastructure because you just need to connect it to the internet. And Web 2.0 is about mobility. People doesn't want, doesn't only want to connect to, let's say,

Starting point is 00:21:32 network, but also they want to connect anytime, anywhere. So that's why mobility focus. But people, let's say users, are more interactive. What about Web 3.0? Web? Web3 is about content creation. What about, it's about the contents user created, but also owned by them. They can be incentivized. They can monetize the creation, the contents. That's about Web3. So I want more like, I trust, let's say user itself. I believe user with proper tools, with proper platform,

Starting point is 00:22:08 they are able to create really innovative contents, really valuable things. Not mentioning about sustainability, it's really about everyone. So it's not only about the enterprise or use case, for sure it's very important, but it's more like an enabler or like a scene like a town hall place and actually really matters is people itself is what you do on a daily basis it's not like you do a project for one month or one week no it's how you're gonna live your life can really make the difference about the future sustainability like the real make the world better so you think we can get to a billion people

Starting point is 00:22:51 sure well that's my mission i'm not going to rest until i get there i hope that it happens really soon then of course of course thank you so much thank you i appreciate it, it's a pleasure.

The Wolf Of All Streets - The Biggest Companies In The World Are Already Using Blockchain | Sunny Lu

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