The Wolf Of All Streets - The Great Memecoin Debate | Crypto Town Hall

Starting point is 00:00:00 Iago, do you think you and I would ever be on the spaces together that was entitled the great meme coin debate? I don't know what's happened to me, man. But, you know, I think it's valuable to try and find the value in things that other people find valuable, even if you're not naturally inclined to it. I agree. They've been slowly whittling me down, chipping away one by one, and it's starting to work. But I think it'll be a pretty constructive conversation.

Starting point is 00:00:38 I mean, obviously, you're building on Bitcoin. And so whether you agree with these or not, this stuff's all coming to Bitcoin, too. Look, I used to hate Brussels sprouts. And then my wife showed me why she loves Brussels sprouts. And now I love Brussels sprouts. So who knows? They're delicious, man. I swear. No, hold on, hold on, Scott.

Starting point is 00:00:56 I literally come late to the show and the first thing I hear you talking about is Brussels sprouts. This is the value that happens when I'm offline, yeah? That wasn't me. I didn't start the Brussels sprout, the great Brussels sprout debate. Yago, you take responsibility for Yago. You're the one that brought him

Starting point is 00:01:11 on the space the first time and gave him a massive, he vouched the hell out of him behind the scenes. So, Yago, it's your responsibility. Mario, are you a Brussels sprouts guy?

Starting point is 00:01:21 I love Brussels sprouts. I don't know what's going on. Everyone loves Brussels sprouts. Grilled, boiled or grilled, it's incredible. brussels sprouts guy i love brussels sprouts i don't know what's going on everyone loves brussels sprouts grilled boiled or grilled it's incredible boiled is horrible i don't know what you're talking about but grilled absolutely yeah and boiled then grilled i think i don't know i'm not a chef what i do is eat the food that others make me but um today's topic is is one that is come comes due to heart to scott and there's actually, the timing of it is pretty perfect, Scott. I'm actually going to mention something on the space.

Starting point is 00:01:51 I wasn't planning to. That's related to meme coins and how it's evolving. By myself, you know, there is an upcoming launchpad for meme coins I'll be talking about shortly, number one. Number two is one of the exchanges and one of the top five exchanges actually are gonna start launching new coins as well similar to normal you know startup normal token launches to doing private raises but there's the launch by doing it for a fair launch many of you might have seen the viral tweet about it but uh yeah the timing of it is perfect i don't know today's discussions mean coins but it's gonna be a good one yeah we gotta get we we've got apparently some pro meme pointers and

Starting point is 00:02:29 some anti-meme coiners on stage i think that uh mario you myself and ran until not very long ago and i'm hoping randy's drop would have been uh viewed on the anti-side although i think that that's unfair because doge was my first love uh in crypto and i started unfair unfair to you unfair to you you're fake you pretend no i just think i think and i think what i want to get at here and on this space is definitely as that there are levels to this meme coin thing and perhaps it's not all just one huge bucket because I think we have the Elizabeth Horans and Joe Bowden's and such of the world that are literal jokes, like to laugh at the regulators and say, well, these have no utility.

Starting point is 00:03:14 There's no expectation. They're not securities. It's a casino. And let's have fun. But I think they're actually, and I've been dismissive of this, but I think they're actually meme coin projects that either sort of skin themselves as meme coins because it works for marketing or that started that way, but built a community and then actually add some utility. And, you know, we had Joe Vizzani yesterday, who's now kind of part of our team. He's been convincing me of that to some degree, right? I think he was talking about Floki yesterday and that they i i maybe i blacked out

Starting point is 00:03:45 i don't know but it was saying that they've added some legitimate utility and have larger communities and more volume and utility than some other than some other like platforms that you wouldn't view as meme coins um i can tell you we've got cat boy on stage today cat boy they this is my wife who's also here her cousin this is this is how i started looking more into meme coins, her cousin, who I've known forever contacted us and said, listen, I know Scott doesn't like do meme coins, but like, I want to introduce him to these guys, cat boy, to which I initially said, unfortunately, but I was like, then I was like, you know, out of respect,

Starting point is 00:04:21 obviously we're causing all top to them. I got added into a group with these guys. And we started chatting. And they're just actually doing some really cool stuff that's equivalent to what some others are. And my mind immediately dismissed them as it's called Catboy and it's a cat meme. Right? And so it doesn't work. So I'm also warming, I would say, to the idea.

Starting point is 00:04:41 Thanks, Emi. Go ahead. Can I say something? Yeah. I just want to say in general about meme coins, not that I'm some expert on this, but, you know, I am all for like making crypto more grown up. And I feel like meme coins are the, you know, you walk in a casino, it's like all the fucking slot machines that are like screaming at you and like you don't understand how to play and it's like okay this is a joke um as compared to like the grown-up like you know poker tables in the back room right so i definitely think they're all a fucking joke and like yes people can make money and and but the positive about it is that it is bringing more people into

Starting point is 00:05:22 crypto of course so whatever gets the masses here then so be it like let's all get behind it right that's what it's going to take i agree with that and the point that you just made is the best one is that the grown-ups are still in the casino so the rest of crypto is still in casino it's just a more grown-up casino and i and i have consistently been pointing this out that last cycle as much as we can be dismissive of memes and Bitcoin, Maxis would love to tell you how we saw this mainstream adoption of Bitcoin. I still argue that a huge, huge portion of the people that came into crypto last cycle, and we know this factually, came in through NFTs and through Doge, SHIB, and other dog coins, right? We had this huge lineup of people trying to get on decentralized exchanges who couldn't even sign up for three months because they all wanted to trade Doge. So if a proportion of those people, to your point, end up at Bitcoin or in the

Starting point is 00:06:21 back of the adult table, isn't that a benefit? Right? So I think we do get meaningful adoption through meme coins. I'm starting to come around. Am I losing my mind, Mario and Ran? I mean, it was just... No, no. And I was just talking about how meme coins are evolving.

Starting point is 00:06:37 There's the concept of a meme coin launchpad that me and you will be talking about soon. And I'm not sure if you know this as well, Ran, but in exchange, one of the top exchanges is looking at starting to do pre-sales for meme points i think it's a let me check this official posted about it there's nothing wrong with me as i as i say um you know we all laugh at nfc remember when nfc was launched yeah i do remember but i also remember when your mic was better um maybe uh 24 hours ago 24 seconds ago yeah i'm gonna try and not swim with my airpods and i think that's that's the answer yeah it's only the way i swam with the one airport not the other airport um yeah i remember when nfts were launched and everyone like there was all the rage that you know why are cats clogging up Ethereum?

Starting point is 00:07:25 And this is ridiculous. Ethereum was meant to change the future of finance. And now we have these stupid cats clogging up crypto kitties, which clogged up Ethereum. And then we were like, but hold on a second. Actually, this created an entirely new industry, which is actually a lot more fun than DeFi, right? And, you know, like fun entertainment is a massive, massive, massive industry. It is the industry, right?

Starting point is 00:07:49 So you look at the entertainment industry, it's the biggest industry. And within the entertainment industry, the higher the dopamine levels that you can stimulate, the more you can stimulate dopamine, the more people are willing to pay for it. And there's nothing more exciting than going to a casino, right? Like you go to a casino, the lights flash, there's high dopamine, you put money in a slot machine, and sometimes money comes out of the slot machine. It's exactly the same with meme coins, except it's a lot more fun because it's quite challenging.

Starting point is 00:08:16 You've got to solve a puzzle in your head to almost say, well, where do you think that the masses are going to go next? And, you know, one of the things that I was doing last night, I was trading the FOMC meeting live. And on on, on while Jerome Powell was was speaking, we were trading, we were streaming it on YouTube. And it was cool, like Bitcoin went from 60, whatever 66,000 to 67,000 or 65,000 or whatever the numbers were but the one thing that was much more fun was when one of the journalists asked a question about elizabeth warren and he said something like he said um elizabeth warren wrote a letter to jerome powell you know you know

Starting point is 00:09:00 requesting that he reduce interest rates and the meme meme coin doubled. The Elizabeth Warren meme coin doubled. And that was the most fun we could have. Horan. Horan. Horan. Hor. Horan. Horan.

Starting point is 00:09:13 Horan. And that meme coin doubled. And to be honest, it was amazing fun. So I think that what meme coins are doing is they're making blockchain fun. As long as you understand the rules of the game and the rules of the game are that these are not investments these are trades uh these are fun trades you're in a casino they these are not fundamentals fundamentally strong projects that are going to change the world this is a game that's it and if you any but some of them could

Starting point is 00:09:44 some of them be fundamental projects that change the world if they build enough community? Because like Elizabeth Horne and Doge are not the same. And they're both called meme coins. Well, the difference is that Doge is a layer one blockchain. And to be honest, I think that Doge wouldn't be Doge if the richest man in the world wasn't the one hunting it all the time. So I think like you think about like what Doge is, Doge is the richest man in the world wasn't the one punting it all the time. So I think, like, you think about, like, what Doge is. Doge is the richest man in the world having fun

Starting point is 00:10:08 and telling people that one day he's going to integrate it into Twitter. And he'll probably do what he has to say. But other than that, it's not, there's nothing there. And, you know, like, there's nothing there. I'll tell you one thing about meme coins. To me, they're much more fun than those NFTs that Mario buys.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Much more fun. Like, you just trade one at a time and you don't have to buy this. I think, to be honest, meme coins are the fun game. And I think that the biggest industry that meme coins are threatening... Like, you know the reason

Starting point is 00:10:38 why I'm holding the token Horan? I'm holding Horan because I just can't sell it because I hate her so much. Right. And I feel like I'm part of a community that really hates this person and really thinks that she's a whore. Right.

Starting point is 00:10:56 So to me that I feel much better than Mario who, who thinks that he's part of like these cool punk things. You know what I mean? Like this is actually much more of a movement to me. Elizabeth Horne sounds like a really, really good movement, really strong movement that I think will stand the test of time in the next decade. So let's hold both of our assets for the next five, 10 years. And let's see which one is cooler.

Starting point is 00:11:18 And by the way, like this is coming from me as someone who's actually getting involved into meme coins. Me and you kind of getting more and more involved at the same time. We've got K9 finance on stage. We invest in K9 finance, which actually I'm going to pivot this set of attacking ran back K9 disclaimer, we are invested, but one that you guys kind of convinced me, you were like one of the first steps that convinced me to get into meme coins

Starting point is 00:11:44 because you were building utility within the ecosystem um so so you maybe buzz you could talk about that concept and and how many points are evolving and then rand maybe we should talk about the you know what we'll be announcing tomorrow so if you're not announcing now just wait till tomorrow maybe dm me in the in the back i don't know if it's i don't know if it's our announcement to announce what's happening tomorrow i don't even know anything why i got a guy okay scott easy i don't think i don't know you're the party people when it comes to anything meme coins okay now maybe talk to us about and i want some anti-memers on stage joe has been converted bloody hell everyone's been converted but uh viago maybe will help out about canine um can you tell us more about um how utilities are being built within the ecosystem?

Starting point is 00:12:25 Obviously, Canine is an example, but other examples as well. Yeah, yeah. So I'm Buzz. I'm one of the co-founders of Canine Finance. And Canine Finance is the official DeFi layer of SHIB. So when you look at SHIB, it certainly started out as just a meme coin, but it's grown a lot from there. The community has built an L2 chain. There's some significant problems that have happened with that chain that are looking to be solved. So it was difficult to bridge over. TVL was relatively low compared to

Starting point is 00:12:55 Polygon and other L2s that have been successful. So K9 Finance sits in as that DeFi layer to try to bring more volume there as an LSD token to bring that to SHIB. But just to comment on what you guys were saying, part of my role, my name is Buzz again, is I'm the official development advocate for SHIB. And I completely agree about meme coins being really a conduit to bringing people into the space. I think that this is sort of this cycle's NFT. In terms of people get into it, they buy it for the first time, they're using a fiat on-ramp to participate in these ecosystems. And a really interesting data point to look at is where the value is actually flowing when somebody sold an NFT in the last cycle, and comparing that to where

Starting point is 00:13:44 the value is flowing now when people make money off of a meme coin. And exactly what Scott was saying, I think that this value is actually flowing into large caps like BTC, ETH, and even large cap meme coins like Doge and SHIB. When you look at the last cycle in NFTs, there was an inverse relationship between the price of large cap NFTs versus the price of ETH. And I think when we do that analysis of where value is actually flowing, when meme coins are pumping on a certain day, ETH is dropping, and there's this inverse correlation where we are seeing smart money who's succeeding in these spaces, like NFTs and meme coins flowing into exactly what scott was

Starting point is 00:14:25 saying yeah and i want to before going to simon um rodney i'd love you to jump in as well and then more the thing i want to focus on is what determines i started looking into it recently and most people see the successes but there's so many flops that happened early on. And it just looks like there's no indicators to determine what a successful meme coin will be other than like quote unquote hype. That's pretty much it. But I don't see any other indicators that when you come to investing, you know, VC investing like me, Scott Rand, what we do is that you look at, okay, who's backing these guys and look at the team and their background.

Starting point is 00:15:03 And then as time progresses, there's more indicators. What are the launch pads? What running. Do you know what you just said though? Do you know exactly what you just said? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:15:19 I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I on your stream. I swear, I swear. And Scott. Man, I'm trying to run a business here while running a special. No, do you know what you just said though? Do you know exactly what you just said when you un-viewed it by the way? I have no idea. I messaged you in the background. Rodney, any indicators just for the audience? Like how do you, I know it's a question that everyone asks, but is there specific indicators that you look for if you want to look at investing in a meme coin? Yeah. What's up, Mario, Scott, Rand? Thanks for having me. I am the meme coin guy. I actually

Starting point is 00:15:49 got into crypto because of meme coins. And I've always thought if you went out on the street and you asked 100 random people what Dogecoin is, a few of them would probably know, maybe 10, maybe a little more. But if you asked them what Solana was, they probably wouldn't know. So I think meme coins are really good for mass adoption. It brings a lot of people in the space. And then if you step outside your comfort zone, you realize how big cryptocurrency is. And then you start looking at Bitcoin. And that's how I got orange built and stuff like that. And that's like the natural progression, in my opinion. Well, when it comes to meme coins, I think like if you right away, I understood that it's gambling. And if you understand meme coins, and if you accept

Starting point is 00:16:25 them for what they are, that most of them are here for a good time, not a long time, you'll be all right in the space. Now, you know, go ahead. That's good. Now, that's great. But okay, so how do you make sure that people in the audience don't lose their money if they're gambling with meme coins? Well, if you're gambling on meme coins, baby, you can expect to lose some money all the time. No one hears about the losses. I mean, there are some bangers in the space. We have Pepe.

Starting point is 00:16:48 Why did it pump? I mean, they did no marketing except for tweeting. They didn't pay any influencers or anything like that. People made their own communities and started talking about Pepe. It's an old school meme. It blew up. You know, Shiba Inu, the Dogecoin killer, it was a funny joke at the time and started building utility along the way.

Starting point is 00:17:08 I mean, none of it really makes sense, but some indicators that something may run are hypes and narratives like Pepe. You know, the Matt Feary narrative is a huge narrative right now. Political, you know, meme coins right now with Elizabeth Horan or Bowdoin or the Trump MAGA VP, MVP, those sorts of meme coins are in right now. So it's all about narratives. Tickers are big, like the Harry Potter, Obama, Sonic, anyone with ticker symbol was Bitcoin. You know, like that stuff is big. The truth is nobody really knows what makes these things tick, but strong communities, good developers,

Starting point is 00:17:35 and lots of marketing and engagement on X, I think is some of the things you can use. But there literally is no clear sign. Yeah, so the sign that I've found is the biggest indicator, Joe, I'd love you to jump in, has been influencers, KOLs, and not any KOL. Because obviously some KOLs put their name behind anything for a quick dollar. And others have built a credibility to backing solid projects. So they kind of become the Binance of meme coins kind of approach. And so like what we've, so what we do with our show, the countdown show is that we try to get the best projects. Every project that we do a countdown shows either listing on Binance or top tier exchanges and massively hype to build that reputation.

Starting point is 00:18:18 And it seems that there's a few names in the meme coin space. I won't name them here, that build a similar reputation, that seems to be the best indicator of a meme coin that will do well, the ones that manage to get their support. Is that a fair statement? Joe, maybe you can jump in on that one. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a fair statement for, I like to classify them in two ways, memes and mascot coins, right? And for meme coin, yes, you're correct.

Starting point is 00:18:44 For a mascot coin, and what I consider a mascot coins, right? And for meme coin, yes, you're correct. For a mascot coin, and what I consider a mascot coin are the coins that become the mascot of the chain, right? And they basically become the content factory. And I think VCs have understood the game of something I looked at negative and now I look at it as a positive. I wrote Scott early on in Solana. I'm like, Solana has has a nuclear bomb waiting because of Bonk. And I was wrong because I didn't look at it for what it is. It is the mascot coin that produces tons of content for Solana and gets people to go onto Solana. And TVL.

Starting point is 00:19:19 On base. Yeah, and TVL. Now you have Brett on base. base you have pepe which is a bit different it is a meme but it's gotten if you track back and mario i talked to you we're building like an ai to read on chain data if you look at who started the pepe coin it all comes from one wallet in a very large wallet who then funded multiple small brand new wallets and start that coin that is a whale who's who started that and is pumping it so kols can be important i typically look when too many kols are involved that it's there for a short time not a long time uh for what i consider the mascot coins i look at them as they're going to be there for a long time because they are the content production team of the chain. And VCs do want to support that because that's how you get marketing done.

Starting point is 00:20:11 I feel like we kind of got ahead of ourselves because we're talking as if meme coins are essentially here to stay and it's going to be part of crypto forever, but maybe it's going to be too early to make such a statement. Yago, Yazan, can we make a statement where meme coins will always be here to stay as crypto continues to mature? Because I thought meme coin season will die in this bull market considering regulators were cracking down. I think meme coins are always going to be with us in the same way that fashion is always with us and fads are always with us. And gambling is always with us. They, meme always with us and gambling is always with us. Meme coins are, you know, a combination of all of those things. And sometimes

Starting point is 00:20:49 they manage to elevate themselves out of that very, very rarely. But sometimes they manage to elevate themselves out of that and become sort of the mascot or the symbol of an idea, which really resonates with people over a length of time. Now, that's one in 10,000 meme coins. But if you look at it, if you zoom out, effectively all coins have some elements of a meme coin. I mean, Bitcoin is the original meme coin. It was a token which had no value outside of the community of believers still doesn't. And it represented a very powerful idea that people could be self-sovereign, that we can have freedom, that we can free ourselves from the banks and we can free ourselves from the Fed. And that is still the meme of Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:21:34 And it's a very, very powerful meme. And even, you know, projects that are building things, what they're building is something that you believe in. And so you believe in Uniswap, or you believe in this DApp or that DApp. And part of the value, at least, and definitely at the beginning, is your belief that this is something worthwhile and might succeed. The succeed the um real difference between you know clone meme coins and all of the rest is that they are just pure gambling uh where people will come and they will see you know there's a dogecoin is doing well so we'll also create a dog coin and and that that adds nothing to the world really um it's not a fun idea it's not a special idea it doesn't really create community and um the the well then i would argue that the holders of dog with hats

Starting point is 00:22:35 but i believe that they are part of a community and they all contributed money to get the dog with the hat onto the sphere yeah i'm skeptical of that i'm very very skeptical so yeah the question was are meme coins here to stay i think the concept of meme coins are here to stay the vast majority of meme coins that we have right now any specific meme coin almost all of them are going to disappear because at some point they're your parents meme coin and they're super uncool i agree i agree and i think the whole thing around meme coins is that the whole game of meme coins is how quickly can you identify a cultural narrative? Can you move there before everybody else? And can you move away into the next one before everyone moves away that is the game of meme coins can you preempt

Starting point is 00:23:28 what the next cultural relevance is going to be so like let me give you a great example there's bowden and trump right which is the two the two uh big meme coins now and they're playing the election narrative and possibly after elections it's not going to be that cool to hold bowden and trump you know like that kind of getting by that time and i think it's not going to be that cool to hold Bowdoin and Trump. You know, like, honestly, I think by that time – and I think it's – the whole game of meme coins and the reason why I enjoy it so much is you try to preempt what people are going to think is cool for a very short period of time, and then you try and run away and preempt something else.

Starting point is 00:23:59 And that's the game. And if you get good at that game, you can make millions of – But my concern, Ryan, and we'll go to the panel afterwards, but something that we've been debating, and I'm sure you've had the same debate, especially with previous experiences, is if you promote, if you have the wrong meme coin on, because you started bringing, have you started having meme coins on your show yet?

Starting point is 00:24:18 We started, we had the first. I've had, I have meme coin shows every Sunday. In fact, if we could just add, there's a listening, his name is Gustavo Fidalgo. You can see his, uh, his act, uh, Hector, Ron Nemo DJ, Hector Nemo DJ. If you could send it. Yeah. Send it, send it on our moderation group and the team will bring him up. Yeah. But continue. What about him? He just dropped out. Right. So the concern that we have on can run his back because unless I can't hear him,

Starting point is 00:24:47 but the concern that I have, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go ahead. You say, so my concern is that promoting the wrong project, I'm glad I didn't know you had a weekly meme coin show. We started them as well on our channels, but what about that concern of just promoting the wrong? Oh, there's Gustavo Hector, Hector, Omino, Dijan. All right, let me bring up Hector, Omino, Dijan. But yeah, you heard my concern.

Starting point is 00:25:12 Do you have that same concern or what was your conclusion as a team? Well, hold on, hold on. I would argue, I would argue differently. I would argue that when you look at crypto projects, there are many more crypto projects that are scams than meme coins that are scams. If you look at the number of crypto projects that are outright incompetent and or scammy, and you compare that to meme coins, I think the failure rate in terms of scam rug pulls is probably higher in normal crypto projects. I disagree. No, no, hold on, hold on.

Starting point is 00:25:45 How can you say that? These projects are going through due diligence by the VCs. They're being regulated in many cases. They've been going through due diligence on the long spares and the exchanges, and they're building a product that you can actually see. So we've got a meme coin show, but at the same time, you have to admit,

Starting point is 00:26:01 you can't say legitimate projects that are VC backed, going on long spares, regulated in most cases with an entity uh have a higher likelihood of rugging than a meme coin with a with an undoxed founder if any and uh and no idea what they're building or anything at all no regulations but they're not building but hold on but if if they're building anything it's not a meme coin if it's a meme coin it's a's a meme. Yeah, but that's not the issue. But the issue is that you're saying that these meme coins that are building nothing, that have an undoxed team, have a lower likelihood of rugging than a project that is doxed, regulated, and an VC investment. Wait, wait, wait.

Starting point is 00:26:37 Wait, wait, wait. When you buy a meme coin, Mario, you are sending money to the founder to get a proportion of a coin that does nothing and the founder literally says once you have your coin that all it is is you earn a coin and otherwise I don't do anything except maybe produce art and run a social media account now that is very different from a founder who tells you he's going to build it yeah that's why they don't fail. There is no failure. Hold on. We're talking about rugging. Failure is a different story. What you consider is failure.

Starting point is 00:27:12 How do you rug in a meme coin? You remove liquidity. How do you rug in a meme coin? When a meme coin gets rugged, it's actually bullish. The rugging is you send your money, you don't get your coins. That's rugging. But I mean, how many projects is you send your money, you don't get your coins. That's ragging. But I mean, how many projects have you invested in in crypto?

Starting point is 00:27:29 You give the founder money, the founder goes and squanders all the money. You never saw your tokens. I mean, I've done that a hundred times already. And so have you. And with the meme coins, it's less because the founder doesn't need to deliver anything other than send you one stupid SPL token. That's it. Yeah, but this is the point I was trying to make really quick. This is the point I was trying to make at the very, very

Starting point is 00:27:48 beginning and nobody was really here. I just think that it's almost disingenuous at this point to label everything a meme coin because there's so many different levels ran to how you just articulated to what this is. There are the ones that have no utility, but there are ones that are trying to build utility and maybe they shouldn't even be called meme coins even if they're you know pfp is a meme sometimes with these these meme coins as well like when they start to build in liquidity that's the ultimately or sorry not liquidity utility it can be the ultimate sign of death for those meme coins because now you have exactly how to value it versus other projects and once you

Starting point is 00:28:25 have a way to value that and actually quantify how large that community is it can be a sign of death so we're so canine do you consider yourself a meme do you guys consider yourself a meme coin no no we don't they're not they're not i mean for memes they're not right i i agree but people would i i would say that the natural instinct, you have a paw print and it's canine and you said you're building on chips. So people are going to be like dog meat, dog, dog coin, right? A hundred percent. I agree with you. When we try to kind of build out education that, Hey,

Starting point is 00:28:57 there's real infrastructure that we're building. I would assume that's kind of like what Mario saw in the project as well. But yeah, this is a sort of like a educational component that we're trying to build out in our content to really teach people like, hey, there's this is how the DeFi rails are going to run for meme coins. This is what we're building.

Starting point is 00:29:14 But it's very different among how meme some meme coins don't do anything like Rand was describing. Yeah, I mean, you guys can figure this out. Yeah, the meme coins that I'm talking about, the meme coins that I'm talking about when we talk about coins that I'm talking about,

Starting point is 00:29:25 and we're talking about memes, I'm talking about a meme where they build a token or a community around a piece of a meme art, like Vibing Cat, which is the cat that nods its head. And they're not claiming to do anything other than just maybe run the Vibing Cat Twitter account and maybe run the website or top G, which is the G top, which is the,

Starting point is 00:29:49 the, the, the meme coin, which is just like pictures of Andrew, a figure that looks like Andrew Tate or Elizabeth Warren. And all I'm buying is the guys that go, the team's ability to run a fun, cool Twitter account and build culture on it.

Starting point is 00:30:09 But I'm not asking them to create create technology I'm not asking them to to revolutionize the world I'm not asking to build anything I'm just asking them to to be who they are on social media that's it can I see something and you're asking them to pump your coin let's just be straight I have to say we're gonna pump your point but everyone let's just be straight like you don't have to say we're going to pump your coin but everyone's like all right now we expect you to get cables now we're expected to create hype yeah i'm not asking i'm not asking them to i'm not asking them when i say pump the coin run the meme well enough or let us run the meme well enough make the meme funny enough that it's memeable that's it that's all i'm buying a meme i'm buying the ability to mean i don't want them to invent new technology they created a meme i like the look of to mean i don't want them to invent new technology they created a meme

Starting point is 00:30:45 i like the look of the meme i think that's amazing and so i buy it and if i don't i don't buy it why did i buy elizabeth horan why did i buy gtop at some because i thought they made a very funny representation of of andrew tate they took the mickey out of andrew tate and i think it's cool why did i buy bowden because it's it makes joe biden look even bigger than like a bigger idiot than he actually is and that's why i enjoy it and that's why the i bought it so the the the the only meme coin that we've promoted so far we have a few more in the pipeline finally is the the a meme coin that is supported by an incubator that we know well,

Starting point is 00:31:25 that is well respected. They invest heavily in projects, et cetera. So the team is what gave us, no, we changed, we changed. We started, we started. If you're doing any research, you're doing this whole thing wrong, bro. If you're starting to research and meet teams, you're doing nothing wrong. My goal, my goal is to, my goal is to get me get a slur for, but My goal is to, let me get a slur for, but my goal is to make sure that if we support one

Starting point is 00:31:49 wrong meme, it just takes one mistake to hurt your credibility. No, bro, you're doing this wrong. But Mario, why are you doing meme coins at all? You don't understand the game. All the great meme coins got rogues.

Starting point is 00:32:04 The game is, you look at the meme, you find the the game? All the great meme coins got rogues. All the great meme coins got rogues. The game is you look at the meme, you find the meme funny, does the meme appeal to you, you play it. If you don't talk to the team and evaluate the technology, bro, you're trying to invest in a narrative which is you put money in a slot machine and you get the fucking money out. Don't try to apply investment principles to it you like the meme you buy the meme you think that people can about forget about the team you know the team you want to talk about team if you

Starting point is 00:32:34 would have invested in slurf and i know he's up on stage and i said this respectfully he did such a dumb thing he destroyed the fucking lp tokens. That is what drove his meme up. Okay. Like if I would have said to you, listen, and still, if I said this with respect, if I would have said to you,

Starting point is 00:32:54 Mario, listen, there's this founder, this, and still, if I said this in the nicest way possible, bro, the founder is so dumb.

Starting point is 00:33:01 He's going to burn the LP tokens. That's how dumb this founder is. I'm not saying you're dumb. I know you made a mistake, but I'm saying to you, Mario, if I would have said to you, bro, the founder is so dumb, he's going to burn the LP tokens. That's how dumb this founder is. I'm not saying you're dumb. I know you made a mistake, but I'm saying to you, Mario, if I would have said to you, bro, the founder is so dumb, he's going to burn the fucking LP tokens. That's how dumb he is. Would you have said that that would have sent the meme to the fucking moon?

Starting point is 00:33:15 You would have said, are you crazy? But that is what sent the meme to the moon. That's what gave the meme a half a billion dollar, $600 million market cap. And that is what made the trade bigger than the entire trade on Polygon on one day is the fact that, and Slurr if I said this respectfully, bro, that this founder did something so stupid that he actually destroyed the LP tokens.

Starting point is 00:33:41 That is the claim to fame here, bro. You see, you can't- Can I ask you a question question in the history of time, has anyone ever said the term with all due respect or respectfully and then said, guys, I've been on spaces with, I've been a listener on spaces with sniffs. And I listened to the whole fiasco, even when he was up until 5 o'clock in the morning on a Spaces,

Starting point is 00:34:07 and I listened to how bad he felt, and how much he realized that he fucked up, and how much he realizes it was the most idiotic move that anybody's ever done in the history of meme coins. But that is what drove the fucking meme up, and that's why he's one of the most famous meme coin creators in the world now. Slurf, am I right?

Starting point is 00:34:23 Hopefully you're doing okay, Slurp. Good job. Good job. With all due respect. Great job, Slurp. Yeah, I mean, earlier today in a space, we got in and we've had a lot of people congratulate me and things like that.

Starting point is 00:34:38 I know it was an idiotic thing, so I don't mind people saying that. It is what it is mario listen if if if you spoke to this founder before would you have invested in it if you would have said to you this is this founder is going to be so grand what you don't understand is that you're you're you're just so deep into the crypto circle joke which i am too by the way by the way we are doing but we're doing the same thing like we have a meme coin show we're starting to work with a lot more meme coins a few to be announced like we're going down the same path

Starting point is 00:35:14 but i'm realistic about it i know the risks involved in meme coin world this all makes a lot of sense but imagine in the real world imagine speaking to apologies like hey you invested in this project that literally burned all the coins and all the private investors got none of their coins. And that's normal. No, no, no, we're not investing. What are you going to explain to these people outside of crypto? Like you say, if you don't make a promise to them,

Starting point is 00:35:34 it doesn't mean that we had lawyers on stage in the last show. And they said, even if you don't make an explicit promise. But do you understand, even if you don't make an explicit promise, if there's an implied expectation that could get you into legal trouble as well. I'm not talking about Smurf, Smurf here, talking just in general. No expectation. It's not an investment. There's no explicit expectation. There's no expectation then right? Then exactly after you said, but I expect them to keep building the meme.

Starting point is 00:35:59 I expect them to continue delivering on their promise, but there is no promise. No, no, no. You said got it. You said that earlier. You said that earlier. You expect them to deliver a product, they have to continue the hype. But then I said that they invent the meme, they create the meme, they get rewarded for creating the meme, and then either they run the account or continue with the meme. By the way, I was asking about... Listen to how heated this conversation is about absolutely fucking nothing.

Starting point is 00:36:27 It's not that. You're talking about billions of dollars. With all due respect, Thiago. With all due respect. Just a quick question. Sorry, Slurf. Just two seconds. So, Slurf, first, I was asked about Slurf

Starting point is 00:36:39 by, I think it's Benzingo or Cointelegraph. And I said it was a mistake. And I said, you know, I talked about how this is going to work out in their advantage. I can't remember what my quote was. So I agree with Ran. But I want to take a step back. A lot of people in the audience might not know the story. So if you could tell us the story, but start, you know,

Starting point is 00:36:56 even before the incident, how did you get so, how did you get to get all these investors to send you money? And then obviously what happened after the mistake was made? Okay. Well, originally we just seen, I have a main project that, well, I'm not going to say it's a main project, but I have a separate project that I work on. And we were just in like a limbo waiting for some products to be built.

Starting point is 00:37:23 And we've seen all these other meme coins just posting wallets and raising funds and then just going to zero after. And we thought that we could do better than what they did by actually building a website. We have a raid generator on our website, so you can post memes and stuff without having to make your own and different things like that and uh we just worked for like 72 hours straight uh preparing it and once we got to the finish line to launch it i uh went to burn the lp which was it burning the lp was the intentional part what the what a lot of people and a lot of reporters haven't understood

Starting point is 00:38:07 is that the part that was an accident was burning the tokens allocated for the pre-sellers. So when those are like a lot of people don't know what when you say burning the LP and burning the pre-sellers, maybe just explain a little bit because I think that's quite a technical term. Okay. So when you when when you're adding l uh liquidity to a token you have to make an lp pool which is uh you take however much funds you're putting into it like if you're using soul as

Starting point is 00:38:37 as the pair for the token then you're adding soul and then the amount of tokens that you want to add to be paired with it. And that's the LP. And then I, the intention was to burn that. And then you keep the rest of your tokens for a lot of people have tokenomics where you have team tokens and different things like that. But our other 50% of the tokens was for the pre sellers. And just to clarify one thing, burning the LP means you add the liquidity on a decentralized environment, a decentralized exchange, and burning it means it's inaccessible by the developer to take that liquidity out.

Starting point is 00:39:17 So it will forever be traded on that decentralized exchange. Burning liquidity is a sign of confidence in a meme coin which means that the team can no longer access the funds that are in the liquidity pool that's why they burn liquidity hey that this project can't be rugged because liquidity cannot be removed yeah exactly and uh so whenever I was in the process of doing that, the Solana blockchain was a little congested. So I went to one site and tried to burn the LP and my transaction failed. So then I went to another site. And during that process, I had a bunch of shit coins in my wallet from people just sending random shit to the wallet while we were doing the pre-sale or whatever. They were just sending random shit to the wallet while uh while i was uh while we were doing the pre-sale or

Starting point is 00:40:06 whatever they were just sending random tokens so i was trying to clean out the wallet and when i was cleaning out the wallet i selected the slurf tokens as well i don't know if you've used soul incinerator uh if you haven't maybe go look at it and uh you'll see that when you're on their page it like brings up all your tokens or whatever and i was just it was so many of them i was just clicking through them uh i was i guess i wasn't paying enough attention but i ended up selecting the surf token i didn't even know i burned it when i burned it i actually got on twitter and we launched the token or whatever and i had i read a comment where somebody said how are you going to send out the pre-sales because you burned the

Starting point is 00:40:44 tokens and i responded to it and i said no i didn't and then i went and checked the wallet I read a comment where somebody said, how are you going to send out the pre-sales because you burned the tokens? And I responded to it and I said, no, I didn't. And then I went and checked the wallet and my heart dropped and I realized that I actually burned them. And I just posted on Twitter. I was like, oh, fuck. I started messaging my team and I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what we're going to do. I fucked up. And after a little bit, I was just like, I'm just going to host a space.

Starting point is 00:41:11 And I hosted a space and let all the people come in and tell me what an idiot I am, how much I fucked up. And over time, I think a lot of them got over it. Obviously, the pre-sellers are still mad. We got some exchanges helping us get the refunds out. We're actually doing a wave of them today. I think this wave will cover like 60% of the users. Not 60% of the funds, but 60% of the users that were affected. We're starting from the lower investors and moving up and uh yeah so that's pretty much the the story so far before yeah just a couple of questions left so so first one is you're not docs does anyone know your identity no and how how does it feel

Starting point is 00:42:00 must be nice must be nice yeah yeah how does it feel you have a token uh that's worth whatever now market cap is like 300 million volumes at 1 billion and then you're just going to all that hate and you've got a mistake that i'm not sure if you've consulted any lawyers but you've got a mistake that is scary to say the least um yeah it's just it was super scary i mean in one of our spaces uh i hadn't eaten and stuff. And my girlfriend, she ordered some DoorDash. And I heard the knock on the door and everybody in the space just heard me freak out for a second because I'm trying to do my best to raise the funds back. The with our donations we use an exchange L bank there there. They got the custody of the funds for the for the pre sale. So we're not touching any more funds. You don't have to worry about an idiot fat fingering

Starting point is 00:43:01 anything. So I need to ask you a question. I have to ask you a question i have to ask you a question before you launched your token right before before the token launch before people sent you funds right did you have calls with investors did you have like multiple rounds of calls with investors when you presented a pitch deck no we literally posted we posted the address actually I posted an address on our on my other projects page and it was just like do it was like don't send any salt to this wallet and then once originally I wasn't even gonna launch another meme token but once people started sending it I was like uh all right maybe we should do this well and have a quality like meme coin and so we

Starting point is 00:43:48 started building fucking melting why is it melting are y'all muted are you fucking i only in crypto can you have some and this is oh oh my god with all due respect um it only in crypto can you have someone describe their harrowing 72 hours of hard work slaving away in the fields as uh the big challenge and hard work they had to do to launch something that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars absolute insanity i just want to show you. The hard work was getting all the artwork done, creating the character. Very hard work. 72 hours of real toil and trouble.

Starting point is 00:44:37 I mean, you probably need therapy and an ice bath to recover from that. You might need to go with Mario to do some. Are you at our developers was literally up for 48 hours straight coding. It's not an easy thing to do. I mean, I'll say, I'll say, I'll say you should not, you should not be able to create a million, hundreds of millions of dollars in value in 72 hours.

Starting point is 00:45:00 I'll say this, I'll say this. So number one, like I agree with both Scott and Sloth. So Scott, look, I, my first business, I built whatever, 11 years ago, it took me, it grew extremely fast and I got to eight figures in two years, but that's still, you know, what people in crypto make in a month or in two months. Yeah, you suck. You should have done that in 72 hours, you slacker. I was, I was proud as hell with that achievement. You know, the company still exists today and it,

Starting point is 00:45:24 but that's two years to get something you can get to within a month in crypto. I was proud as hell with that achievement. The other company still exists today. But that's two years to get something you can get to within a month in crypto. And that's considered a massive success. So yeah, crypto is just a lot easier to make a fuck ton of money and that's not disputable. But at the same time, like, you know, Snurf built a project worth $300 million, but Snurf, whoever the founder is, doesn't own a company. Mario, you're missing the point. You're missing the whole point here. You listened to two things that Slurf said. The first thing is he had no investor calls.

Starting point is 00:45:53 He just posted a fucking thing on Twitter, wherever he posted it, and people threw money at him. Number one. The second thing that you're missing here is the reason why his project is valued at $300 million is because of the mess up. That's right. It's the opposite of investing, bro.

Starting point is 00:46:10 Okay, but how are you proud of that? Number one. Mario, Mario. That's how things work. That's how things work. Okay, I'm going to go to you. All right, guys. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to mute you, man.

Starting point is 00:46:23 I forgot you're not a co-host. If you're having calls with teams, if you're entering this game with expectations, you don't know what you're doing when it comes to meme coins. Bro, bro, bro, okay, number one, number one. I'll tell you how to play meme coins. You look for an address with a solid address underneath and you just throw money. You do that, okay, right, you do that. I think we're going to go through more due diligence. Any meme coin that we back, what we have on our show is one we can trust.

Starting point is 00:46:47 And we have, you know, we have, we have confidence that I got to sit there. What are you trusting? There's more you could do. There's more you could do before having a meme coin on your stage. And let's have a chat in a year's time when the hype of a bull market disappears. There's more you could do before having a meme coin on your stage. And let's have a chat in a year's time when the hype of Webull market disappears and whether the decision of just having any project that has a nice theme to go on your stage is a good idea.

Starting point is 00:47:16 Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, here's what I'll say quickly. Guys, here's what I'll say. I think this goes back to the same confusion that we had at the beginning of what is a meme coin? Because you're both right. There's people who are building utility and they're getting thrown either rightfully or because they like the marketing aspect of it into the meme coin bucket. And then there's the literally like... And I didn't even mean to be mean to surf. I'm just saying it's ridiculous that we live in a world great for anyone who makes money.

Starting point is 00:47:46 We're like in 72 hours, you can create something that ends up having billions of dollars in trading volume. I mean, it's insane. It's a casino. Cool. If you're having fun and you're actually making money doing it, but like cat boy, I see you're raising your head. Obviously. You guys are a meme. Let me interrupt. Let me interrupt. Let me interrupt. You guys are a meme. You guys are a quote meme. Let me interrupt. Let me interrupt.

Starting point is 00:48:05 Let me interrupt. Gustavo. Gustavo. Gustavo works with us. Gustavo has made life-changing money in meme coins. Gustavo is like the legend

Starting point is 00:48:12 in understanding meme coins. I don't need anyone better in the world. Gustavo, do me a favor. Can you please explain to me your thesis before you buy? I want to pop your bubble. How do you decide

Starting point is 00:48:23 how to pop your bubble? I'll do you a favor and pop your bubble. Gustavo's not on stage. I would love to also have news. I can't see him on stage. I just have a few on stage. Speak now forever. Hold your peace.

Starting point is 00:48:33 Five, four, three, two, one. Yeah. Yeah. He's always good.

Starting point is 00:48:40 You're always good, Mario. So, so I've been, uh, no, that's, yeah, good, Mario? Oh, is that you, Gustavo? Yo, so I've been... So I've been... That's okay. No, that's okay. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead and ask him

Starting point is 00:48:49 and go to Gustavo after. I brought him up now. I've been next to Slurfside since the... Well, I've been following the story ever since I saw the second tweet that he posted where he was like,

Starting point is 00:49:00 no, guys, I'm serious. I'm serious. I fucked up. I don't know what the fuck to do. I've really messed up. I was there from the very first base. The man was, he let people on stage, was getting cut.

Starting point is 00:49:11 Of course, it's what he deserves. But Mario, I think the point everyone's missing here, and I just want to say I'm not part of the team. I'm just an investor. I've been up with Slurf the very first 72 hours. We stayed up probably 68 out of 72 hours on spaces nonstop. The room was full of 5,000 to 2,000 people just bringing people in, explaining the situation, what had happened,

Starting point is 00:49:33 leaving the room open for people to come in and ask questions or give him smoke and call him an idiot. And honestly, the stories, the volume, the record-breaking stats that he's broken and all from a fuck up but i think the point that everyone seems to be forgetting is because someone came into the space yesterday and was very you know very animated very you know fired up about what had happened and you know everyone's making jokes about how much money's been lost and etc etc and we're all praising this idiot people people coming on stage, giving him flowers, talking about how much respect they have for him

Starting point is 00:50:08 for staying around, doing the right thing. And of course, yes, he has done the right thing. He stuck around when most people probably would have swallowed a bullet after burning $10 million of other people's funds. He stuck around and he did the right thing. I think what the point is, is that most people in that situation

Starting point is 00:50:23 would have turned their back back ran away and not know what the fuck to do and in that instant someone's someone from the team came out and met and read the messages live of what he was saying after it happened and you can hear the genuine fucking scaredness like he was fucking he was terrified but the last message he sent was i'm gonna open a space and the first thing he did was be a man, stand on his two feet and accept and acknowledge the wrong that he'd done and want to fix it instantly. And the reason why we've broken every single fucking record of Solana meme coin can fucking put out there and flip to every chain on the fucking network other than Solana and Bitcoin that day was because this man decided to do the right thing, come here and make- Okay, so you've answered Ryan's question, right?

Starting point is 00:51:09 He's answered your question. The Meancoin pump, not because of the mistake, but because of what the founder did after the mistake. No, you're wrong. Because the Meancoin pump before the Spaces, it actually was at a higher market cap before the Spaces. When the Spaces started, that's when I went short, and I made a lot of money on that short.

Starting point is 00:51:28 Same here. Yeah. The question that ran you. Go ahead. Yeah. Mario, respectfully, I say that I think you're playing – you're trying to apply American football rules to the game of rugby just because the ball looks the same.

Starting point is 00:51:44 No, let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. You are both good. No, I'll say this. american football rules to the game of rugby just because the ball looks the same now i'll say i'll say this and we should probably do a competition right what we should do what we should do in a month's time is that look at the mean coins on my stage versus the ones on your stage let's go better performance let's go but that's not let's go sir let's go let's go, sir. I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. $10,000. $10,000 each. We start today. We disclose all our meme coin trades publicly. You post transactions.

Starting point is 00:52:13 In one month, let's see who makes more money on meme coins. Can we play? Okay, this is your game. This is your game. You're looking. Can I just say one last thing, Mario? I just wanted to say,

Starting point is 00:52:22 this is by far the very, yes, of course, this idiot fucktuk up he's owning it he owns that there's no forgetting that this and this is not going to be the standard that every time someone fucks up in a meme coin that we're just going to bail them out and fucking allow this to happen that is not going to happen this is a one-off it's something what about what about i mean come on guys hold on let me just let me let me just land hold on let me just land um Hold on, let me just land. See, right now you fucked it all up. I forgot. Let me come back.

Starting point is 00:52:49 Drop the mic, bro. Gustavo, can you explain to Mario how to buy? Guys, I'm just going to think. I'm probably the only person on stage that has thousands. I have bought thousands of mint coins. Have you guys bought thousands? Like, I've made life-changing money on this shit. Let me just tell you something. First of all, there are extensions of two things.

Starting point is 00:53:08 One, gambling, like you guys were saying. And second, culture as well. It's like, and you just have to understand culture. I've been rugged so many times. Every single meme coin that does very well gets rugged. If you look at Shiba, if you look at WIF, if you look at literallyiba if you look at with if you look at literally doge even the dev of those wrote they all get rugged and so culturally people like me because because of the way because of the way it was right it was a new matter of being right

Starting point is 00:53:40 it had never happened that's why it pumped every single meme coiner threw money at Slurf. There isn't a single meme coiner or person who knows memes who didn't buy Slurf or traded it, even if it went bad. Because we all understand meme culture. It's like if you look at any cultural movement, like say grungy music, it looks like a pump and dump. If you look at a chart of the movement. Every cultural thing looks like a pump and dump. Can you explain what you mean? It's been robbed. Can you explain what you mean when it's been robbed?

Starting point is 00:54:06 Can you explain what I mean by that? Yeah, yeah. Hold on, I'm asking you to start. Gustavo, go ahead. If you look at the early Shiba Inu chart, it got robbed like four times. Why? Because the devs have, say, 40% of the supply. It goes up.

Starting point is 00:54:24 They literally sell until there's no more liquidity. It goes up again, they sell again until there's some more liquidity. That's what being run is. Or that's why these days we have like those LP locks, because people like me who've been run before the cycle, we now know we're only buying something if the liquidity is locked. There's an indicator. So this is one indicator, for example the lp being locked is one indicator contract being run out submitting function being like just the basics being done and then having a chat with the founder as well it's not you know it's not an enough indicator because percentage of the supply where i can still take all of the liquidity by just you can use wallet i think you're missing the point the biggest holder of fluff is a point eight is like point eight percent and it's one of the exchanges this is the fairest coin that's ever been launched

Starting point is 00:55:11 there can be no dummies the team has no supply there can be no there we go okay one second one second one second the pre-sailors have no supply this is the bitcoin of solana if you don't see that i don't know what the you're doing guys i have to just give you a question when gustavo started working at banter the guy was pretty much broke he he he was he joined us on the research team he's one of the nicest hardest working people i've ever worked with and then he discovered meme coins and he started making literally, I've watched this with my own eyes. He started making life changing money. He started,

Starting point is 00:55:52 everybody in the office started making life changing money because of Gustavo. People in our community started making life changing money to the extent that we eventually just gave Gustavo his own show and said, look, just tell us how to tap into meme coins. The guy knows what he's doing. Let him explain to you Mario so look, just tell us how to tap into meme coins. The guy knows what he's doing. Let him explain to you, Mario, so that you can actually learn how these people think

Starting point is 00:56:10 and how they buy meme coins. But just so you know, he'll speak. He's been speaking already. I'll let him speak more. Just so you know, he's giving more indicators and I'm actually enjoying the discussion with him than you. You're like, hey, nice meme. That's all you look for. It's a nice narrative. It's a cool meme and that's it. Gustavo's telling you exactly what to look for in a project. It's the same, nice meme. That's all you look for. It's a nice narrative. It's a cool meme. And that's it. Gustavo's telling you exactly

Starting point is 00:56:26 what to look for in a project. It's the same thing, Mario. That's the thing. Just listen to Gustavo. He's going to tell you it's the meme. It's the culture. If you're looking for that... Gustavo, everyone's trying to put words in your mouth. What are the indicators for the audience listening to you and trusting you right now?

Starting point is 00:56:41 You know, study those people who invest in music, for example. It's probably very similar to that you might want to do something very pretty and you know and and try and formulate it in a lab it will never work it has to be pure it has to be organic and it's the definition of meme it comes from memetics from dawkins i actually read the book one of the best books i've ever read. And it's literally something that spreads. It's virality. It's literally all it means. It's virality. And it only happens in an organic way.

Starting point is 00:57:11 If you do VC investing on meme coins, I honestly, I don't believe in that. I've never seen it. Can we get to, okay, I'll let you finish. Specifics of what to look for. Just the basics, like a basic thing like liquidity pool being for. Just the basics, like a basic thing, like liquidity pool being locked. Just the basics. Mario, you're asking the question the wrong way.

Starting point is 00:57:30 Gustavo, before you decide to buy these coins that you're making a hundred X's on every single day, just walk us through this. Every single day, a hundred X. Gustavo's working with you and jumping out of space and speaking, but he's making a hundred X a day.

Starting point is 00:57:41 A day. Wait, hold on. Gustavo, a hundred X a day, bro. Come on. A hundred X a day a day, bro. Come on. You have no idea. These coins go

Starting point is 00:57:47 fucking parabolic. How many 100x's have you made in the last two weeks? I've made at least four. Alright, so let's look. Okay, that's not every day in two weeks. Every second day.

Starting point is 00:58:03 So five in two weeks. Let's do the math. Okay, let's not every day in two weeks. Every second of the week. Every second of the week. Okay, let's do it. So five in two weeks. Sorry. So let's do the math. Okay, let's do it. Let's do your math. $1,000 times 100 is $100,000, all right? Then $100,000, that's five a week. $100,000.

Starting point is 00:58:15 Mario doesn't work like that. Mario doesn't work like that. Bro, he's made millions of dollars. He's made hundreds of thousands of dollars from nothing. So you're looking now at $10 million, all right? No. That's 200 Xs. Let's add another two zeros to that at $10 million. All right? That's 200Xs. Let's add another two zeros to that, $10 million. Now you're looking at a billion dollars.

Starting point is 00:58:31 That's 300Xs. Mario, your logic doesn't work. It doesn't work like that. 100X in your whole portfolio. No, but then, Scott, yeah, yeah, exactly. You can't put $10 million in a meme. Corey, Corey, Corey. But still, 100X.

Starting point is 00:58:43 Guys, $500 or $1,000 in a meme, and they put it into $50,000, $100,000, $200,000. I mean, I saw a screenshot of Gustavo's thing where he made $750,000 on one meme coin. I saw this with my own eyes, guys. But then the issue, but the concern I have, Ryan, is that these people doing these trades and making 100x here and there are not putting out the screenshots of the complete white paths that they invest in.

Starting point is 00:59:05 But you're missing the point because they invest a thousand and if they lose a thousand it's okay because they've made a hundred thousand. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Let me give you a great, one of the best investments made in meme coins. Let me explain you.

Starting point is 00:59:21 Mario, I'm going to walk you through. Two months ago I bought this meme coin called VCAT. I bought it. I it i was up five or six x bam it went to zero then i was up five or six x a month later bam to zero again and now i'm up a lot more i've taken profits etc but it went up a lot i got rugged twice on it why did i still hold why did i know and i had such certainty it was going to go up? Because I understood the culture. I understood the meme. And I understood it's only a matter of time until whatever.

Starting point is 00:59:51 These two whales dump all their coins. Everyone else will buy this thing and it will pump. What are the – so what's up? Can I jump in and tell you why you're both right, please? Because, look, what Rand's doing is hype jumping, right? And I don't know if he's getting involved in pre-sales or not. I don't know how much Slurph raised. I recently got in a pre-sale for Temple, for example. They raised $6 million just sending tokens to a wallet, right? And I typically don't do that, but I saw that they produce a lot of content. So you can look at

Starting point is 01:00:21 stuff. You know I got involved in Pepe in October and everyone here was making fun of me. And I said, look, if this community sticks together, it's going to work. So yeah, I look at it more long term. I'm not hype jumping. And I understand. I wish I could. I wish I had the time to understand all the pre-sales. I was lucky enough to find Temple, which I think is going to be an incredible meme uh token but that's hard to do to be in on it ran you have a team so that makes it easy for you to hype jump right listen to the team listen to gustavo i'm looking for longer term stuff people that know how to produce content will produce content like crazy and it's going to make it work and gustavo was his mug. Founders get out of the way. I held mug for nine months. Look at the profits. Yo, shot. And Pudgy went crazy when the founders got out of the way. Those went crazy when the founder got out of the way.

Starting point is 01:01:17 Bitcoin went crazy when the founder got out of the way. That happens a lot. So what Gustavo was saying about a rug, it's not always a rug. It's when the community takes over and the founder doesn't matter anymore. Right? Exactly. Those are the memes that really work and take off. Well said, Joe.

Starting point is 01:01:31 And that's long term. Ren. Gustavo? Ren, if you want to outperform Mario, buy Bonk. You don't need to buy anything else. You will destroy him on every single investment you ever make on MemeCon. Hold on, buy Bong? Is that what you're talking about? Bong? Are you being serious?

Starting point is 01:01:49 No, no. Mog. M-O-G. Yo, someone needs to get some Pete Voipers on Mario Northall. Tell me why. Tell me why I must buy Mog, Gustavo. It's got a $300 million market cap.

Starting point is 01:02:08 Because, first of all, it's the coolest cult ever. It's so cool. And it started as a Hunter Biden meme. The image at first wasn't a cat. It was Hunter Biden smoking crack. And they were posting photos of him with underage hookers. That's how it started and then it turned into a cat they morphed into something else so it can grow more

Starting point is 01:02:29 yeah and then the pit vipers now that's why you see the pit vipers everywhere if you haven't seen the pit vipers on the timeline can you tell me can you please what the fuck are we talking about can you please tell me what you would have asked him on your investor call? How would you have interviewed this team? So where do you get your photos of Hunter Biden snorting cocaine from? Do you think you can carry on getting photos of Hunter Biden smoking cocaine? How long have you been in the industry of – what is your – what are you going to ask him in an investor thing?

Starting point is 01:03:02 These guys are posting fucking pictures of Hunter Biden smoking cocaine. Investor calls with a meme coin. So you're saying, hold on. Okay, two seconds, Ryan. So you know the project we're going to be mentioning soon. And you know that they've been through significant DD with the people that are launching them. You don't even know who we're talking about, Yazan.

Starting point is 01:03:21 Hold on, hold on, Yazan. Two seconds. Do you know who we're talking about or on hold on do you know about two seconds do you know do you know do you know who we're talking about or no i have no idea okay ran you know it's a meme coin and we're going to talk about it as a meme coin tomorrow we've talked to the people launching it and they're launching it as a meme coin it's a fair launch meme coin you can't not call it a meme coin they'll be through many calls with the launch pad to go through a significant process to make sure that people putting in money don't get fucked. And I think it's very nice to say, this is very funny, funny games. I'll tell everything goes to zero.

Starting point is 01:03:49 And I just feel like we're in a bull market again. We're all hyped up. And then when there's blood in the waters, we all disappear. You don't know how to play the game. You don't know how to play the game. It's not a game, man. People are losing a lot of fucking money. It is a game to you.

Starting point is 01:04:03 It's a game. It's a game. It's a game to you. We're the people that are early. It's a game, man. People are losing a lot of fucking money. It is a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game to you. We're the people that are early. It's a game to you. It's a game to Gustavo because they get early deals. What about retail?

Starting point is 01:04:12 They get a dump on by the people coming in the pre-sales. Gustavo gets no deal. Can we jump in? I get re-legged. There's no deal. Can I jump in? Make a copy of your thing

Starting point is 01:04:22 and it's going to pump harder, probably. But then, Gustavo, do you go into pre-sales, Gustavo? Mario, you don't understand. I got it. No, never, never, never, never, never. Never did a pre-sale. Okay, so Gustavo doesn't do meme coins. You're saying there's no deals.

Starting point is 01:04:36 You know there's a lot of people that show off meme coins that get a massive allocation to do so, yeah? And who do they sell? When they sell, who buys it? They don't play that game. We're buying them on the open market we buy them on the casino I understand you understand Gustavo are the gods and you do this together I understand but you're saying you guys there's others that do take those pre-sales and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about I'm not gonna put you on the spot whether

Starting point is 01:05:00 you've taken for you to share my respectfully respectfully you're trying to apply the because the ball because the ball looks the same you're trying to apply american football rules to game of rugby it is a different game this game is about memes which are going to go to zero it is about culture it is about people moving from one culture to another culture and you know that that is the game. It's not the same as tokenism. I'll give you one indicator for example. There are some founders

Starting point is 01:05:32 they're not docs but they have a reputation in the industry. They have a reputation with other KOs. They've launched previous coins. They've been part of other projects. That's one indicator. By the way, just for the record, I don't check those mean coins. I don't talk to any of them myself. Probably Bob, you know, Bob Brand.

Starting point is 01:05:48 But another one is just the basics to look for. Actually, I'm going to go to you, Gustavo, with one last question. Beyond the meme being sexy or the story or the narrative or whatever, having a sexy name of Trump or Biden, what are other indicators? It doesn't matter.

Starting point is 01:06:03 It's not Trump or Biden. It's Trump and Biden. It's not Trump or Biden. It's Trump and Biden. It's not Trump or Biden. Other than... So I'll just say something. I'll just say something. If you study internet culture, you need to understand the best website for you guys is knowyourmeme.com. But you need to understand meme culture.

Starting point is 01:06:20 You need to understand internet culture. It's all coming from these forums like 4chan, incel culture, nerd, autistic culture. You're either slightly on the spectrum or you're honestly just, it's hard. It's harder. You've got to wait until it goes to like 20 million market cap to get it. So you're looking, okay.

Starting point is 01:06:36 Just stop. Okay. So I've asked you like four times for other things to look for, which for the average person that doesn't want to watch your show to know what to invest in. Average things to look for. All you're talking about is the meme has to be cool, has to be sexy. There's nothing else to look for. which for the average person that doesn't want to watch your show to know what to invest in, average things to look for. All you're talking about is the meme has to be cool, has to be sexy. There's nothing else to look for. Nothing else at all. I'm giving you a low ball. Like

Starting point is 01:06:51 liquidity being locked is the base of things to look for. Study internet culture. Go to knowyourmeme.com. I know all these memes. You have to be on TikTok. You have to be on all these platforms so you know. Oh, for God's on all these platforms. I understand that the meme has to make sense. The meme has to go viral. Any other indicators? That's it. Oh, you have to look for it. That sounds cool. I'm going to go with it. That's it. Is there any other indicators to look for?

Starting point is 01:07:16 That's it, Mario. You guys do that. It's great education. Go ahead. Plasma and Yazan, please. I'm not sure it keeps me in it. You keep having investicles. You must have investicles. Go ahead. Plasma and yazan please I'm not sure you keep having investicles you must have investicles go ahead plasma and yazan plasma and yazan

Starting point is 01:07:30 go ahead plasma thank you for having me here's what I'm looking for I'm looking for meme coins that can stand the test of time something to be here in like 5-10 years so what are the things obviously liquidity has to be burnt another big thing is almost all of all the liquidity needs to be here in like five ten years so what are the things obviously liquidity has to be burnt

Starting point is 01:07:45 another big thing is almost all of all the liquidity needs to be put in the liquidity pool if the team gets more than five percent of the tokens maybe seven seven is pushing it more than five percent of the token they can kill the token and once they dump and leave the token will die so the things i'm looking for are either memes that are created, tokens that are created by the artist of the meme or a complete community takeover where the team has already

Starting point is 01:08:13 left it and they cannot dump. Once you have those factors, it's kind of like going back to the proof workdays. It's fair launch where community owns all the tokens. And if the community keeps growing, the token will keep growing. That's why I also look for memes that have

Starting point is 01:08:29 standard test of time, memes that have been around for years, not something that is pushed by VCs, created by them. Basically, a first meme created by them this week, and then they get the exchange listing, they pump the meme. But those memes, they're not going to be around in a few years because people will get dumped on VC. It takes like what, 30, 50% of

Starting point is 01:08:50 the supply for themselves, which is absurd. And yeah, the biggest point to me is to have no team basically, because if you depend on the team- Okay. So essentially Plasma is finally, finally a logical answer. So other than what Gustavo was talking about, which is important, obviously, as decentralized as possible is really important. Gustavo, you kind of touched on that as well. It's another important indicator, correct? Yes, yes. No team is always bullish.

Starting point is 01:09:17 If the community takes over, it's always bullish. Everything he said is 100% true. I mean, okay, so this is perfect. I'm glad with this. Yazan, anything else to add to what Gustavo and Plasma have mentioned? No, 100%. No roadmap, no promises, because the moment there's a promise, there's expectations, and that's a setup for disappointment.

Starting point is 01:09:41 So whenever I see a meme coin making a roadmap of what are we going to do in the next six months, I know it's going to fail because if one thing doesn't meet, people are going to start dumping. But that doesn't mean fail. That means it doesn't pump tomorrow. Right?

Starting point is 01:09:58 That's like saying that Doge and Shib and Floki and all these failed. They didn't fail. Pepe didn't fail. We have a broader meme coin audience where we literally send the project from 100 million market cap to 1 million market cap if one day and this goes back to exactly what i was saying is that we're categorizing all these the same and they're not right and so like that's that it's so disingenuous or it's just inaccurate for us to keep saying using it as a blanket term meme coins like capoe i see you're

Starting point is 01:10:25 trying to jump in i know you want to talk about like utility and being around for a long time i think these are just two completely different markets i mean go ahead right no no absolutely um scott mario ran i really appreciate y'all uh letting us come on but yeah i agree with scott we're um we're classifying these and it, maybe it should be more like a hybrid, right? Because, you know, I've had, I've heard Rand say several times on a couple of shows prior that, you know, about it being, you know, casino and the flashing lights and this, that, and the other. And Rand, I understand where you're coming from there. And I certainly understand, you know, Mario, you know, speaking up about, you know, what, what, what is there to look for?

Starting point is 01:11:03 And again, it's more like, it's more of a hybrid, you know, I feel like, so, you know, for instance, and of course, you know, Catboy's on stage and, you know, I've got the floor a little bit here. So I'm going to, you know, going to mention, you know, we've been around since, you know, 2021. So, you know, the gentleman who was just talking earlier, you know, we've, we've stood the test of time thus far. Right. And it is, it is a bit about the hypes and the narrative. It's it's it. Everything has to come together and you have to stay up to date on what that looks like. So, you know, for for Catboy, for instance, you know, staking GameFi, AI interaction, AI interaction is something that's that's really big. If you do that, if you do that, you're not a meme coin. Sorry.

Starting point is 01:11:45 A hundred percent. Right. Yeah., you're not a meme coin. Sorry. 100%. Right. Then you're not a meme coin. Right. And I think, and again, I think that's why, and this is the great meme coin debate. You know, it's a great title, right? So, and maybe we're more debating classifications and things that nature seems like. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:12:03 It's becoming more into semantics. And I think on that point, Ryan, you make sense. It could start as a meme coin, but then evolve into something with utility. It's going to mature into something more than just a meme coin. And if it matures in a decentralized way, as Plasma and Gustavo and Yazan said, then this is kind of the perfect format you look for. You look for something. It depends where on the risk curve you want to start.

Starting point is 01:12:25 If you want to start really early, trusting the founders or trusting the narrative, where based, you know, it has to tick a few boxes to make sure they're on a rug, and then see if it gets to a certain market gap and then see it evolves into something more

Starting point is 01:12:37 and then get into the Shiba or the Doge territory, then this is, you know, this is a place for you to, you know, this is your, you know, your risk that you're taking. But I'll go on Sigi. Go ahead, I'll go.

Starting point is 01:12:48 And just back to the discussion so far. Mario, the risk of intelligence is that you're smart enough to fool yourself. You're not listening to what's actually going on inside. You're experiencing FOMO. You're seeing all of these meme coins taking a lot of money and you want to be part of that market,

Starting point is 01:13:03 but you have no edge. This is not an investment. It's impossible to invest in memecoins. You can gamble on memecoins, you can speculate on memecoins, but you can't invest in them. They're not investable assets. And you have no edge. You can call it whatever you want, investment, trading, gambling, just giving money, expecting it to go up. No, no, no. It's a very important distinction. And I think it's important for you specifically. We should all stick to what we're good at. Right. Now, you have certain edge in that you have a very, very large audience and you can definitely pump meme coins that you want to promote. And over the short term, you could make a lot of money. But by doing that, you're going to be paying a reputational cost. And so I'm just saying to you, take a step back and check with yourself whether or not you're trying to convince yourself that you can get into this because you're FOMOing, but maybe you're stepping outside of where you actually have alpha. What's your message to Ryan? I like that message. What's your message to Ryan as well? My message to Ryan is that run is exactly the opposite. Run

Starting point is 01:14:05 in a way is being more honest with himself. He knows he can't deal with this market with his head and so he's thinking with his dick and wherever his dick points, he makes money. Oh my god, he literally disappeared as you said it. What perfect timing.

Starting point is 01:14:24 I'm going to say go ahead timing we did sit here for a short time not for for a good time not for a long time right i mean so yeah that's why i love mario i think i think you're so good guys i'll give you let me just go let me let me go to universe let me just get singing to jump in man i'll give you the mic sorry but let me go to sing you sing a long time man i feel like it's been a couple years since i've been in the spaces real quick i wanted to jump in i mean honestly i'm probably too deep in this space for my own good uh definitely agree with a lot of points one thing i want to jump in and add i feel that right now i mean there's there's culture in in in meme coins right like this is this is a specific niche of crypto that's like unlike anything else but i honestly think i'm curious to get everyone else's opinion on this and see if anyone disagrees as well, but the biggest thing that

Starting point is 01:15:08 drives meme coins is one of two things. I think Gustavo said it. First of all, it's the memes and the culture. But secondly, it's the people that are behind it, whether they're docs, non-docs, they have personas that are on X or Twitter that they're behind. It's all about hype and FOMO. At the end of the day, everything boils down to, do you think you can make more money off of other people, right? It's not your traditional investment, right? And I think, Mario, you obviously understand this as well. It's not like an ICO or an IDO or another project where you can invest in and you're holding it for months, years at a time. But instead, it's really this notion of a bunch of people trying to see who can get alpha before the other person. And a few of them i'll just add like just a few of them end up becoming successful enough to actually gain

Starting point is 01:15:49 like global notoriety right like obviously the bonks the pepes of the world because they end up getting exchange listed but truly i honestly believe any coin that doesn't end up getting tier one listed as a meme coin is going to die inevitably one day or another it just is a fact because yeah volume i wanted to say mario the issue becomes like the issue begins but the game is slots yeah this is the problem. So Mario, you talked about this before, and here's the problem. There are people that are making life-changing money. Can you hear me?

Starting point is 01:16:31 Can you hear me? Yeah, bro. Yeah. There's people who are making life-changing money here, but it's like one in every 10,000 people, and the rest are going to go broke thinking that they made some kind of investment or that they're some God-tier trader, and they're going to go in and lose all their fucking money.

Starting point is 01:16:44 And that's the problem. My grandfather used to say something to the effect of if you make money too quickly and too easily, then you're just holding it for the rightful owner and you're inevitably going to hand it on to them. And we all know that that's inevitably what's going to happen here. Yes. A lot of people here made a million dollars or $2 million in meme coins are going to give it all back to somebody else. It must've cashed out of the market and taken their profits. It's just how it's going to

Starting point is 01:17:09 work. They're not going to hold that money. And those are the people who actually were successful. So I think Rand said it very clearly. You need to know there's a casino. You need to know what you're doing. You need to know that you're playing a game of hot potato or musical chairs. But the problem is 99% of people don't know that. So you can tell them that they should know or that they, whatever the sad reality is, they're going to go on the casino. Even if they make money, they're going to give it back. But most of them are just going to lose right away and not come back in the first place. So listen, I remain with my, these true meme coin. This is fun. It's great. It's a game if you can treat it that way, but I still, I'm great.

Starting point is 01:17:48 I'm totally happy with ones that are attempting utility and trying to do real things. As you were saying, Mario, the rest of it's going to get washed out and everybody's it's all going to be a net zero. Yeah. I'll tell you, I'll tell you where I stand on this. I'm between you and Ryan is like, and I go set it right for me, you, Scott, Ryan, you know, it's very easy for us, Iago, to just, you know, get any meme coins, prompting us, you know, half a million, million, whatever,

Starting point is 01:18:11 and just talk about us, get us on your show. Yes, in the sense of form, I was always going to be there, Iago. But at the same time, there is that long-term reputation you've got to maintain. Now, earlier, I opted to avoid meme coins. Is that what changed my mind, Iago, is that I think you've got to differentiate between a meme coin that is either an obvious pump and dump that's on one extreme and a meme coin that's already decentralized. It's essentially the definition of what decentralization is.

Starting point is 01:18:37 It's based on a community. You can like the community, you can like the theme or hate it. And it's just been gotten to a stage where there is no central point of failure. The community is building it itself. And it makes it a lot, if anything, it makes it less likely to fail. When it gets to a certain stage, it makes it less likely to fail than a project going to that stage. Because there is no founder that can commit a crime. There is no Sam Beckman-Fried. It is a community. So you're decentralizing that risk. And where we're deciding is not whether to get into the ecosystem. Because if we talk about something like Doge, like we had in the space with Kainai, for example, the co-founder

Starting point is 01:19:07 of Doge was there. So when you start talking with certain projects, they're at a stage where your risk is really low. And Elon himself, the first thing he said when he came on my stage was Doge to the moon. That's the first thing he ever said. He said it more than once on more than one occasion he came on. And obviously, he's supporting a coin that's past the stage of a pump and dump. So what we're deciding, yeah, was where on that risk curve to be. So you got Ryan on one extreme.

Starting point is 01:19:31 He's like, I'm going in. I talk about the risk. I'm very transparent about it. And you could make it a life-changing money or you could lose everything. And then you got Scott, who's a lot more conservative. And I don't think he's touched anything. I'm 47 years old.

Starting point is 01:19:42 And I've been in markets for a long time. And I've seen a lot of shit over the years. And if you can make millions of dollars adding nothing to society in 72 hours, then you're going to give that money back. 99% of the time. I think there's a, that shouldn't be, that shouldn't be possible. I understand, but I can also see your hand up, my friend.

Starting point is 01:20:05 But I'll go to you for the statistics. I'd love to hear them. But, Yago, I think the space, what I think the Mimcoin space needs, and I think where there's a massive opportunity right now, and that's what we're working on, and Rand as well, but he's just a bit more kind about it. There'll be an announcement probably tomorrow. But what we're working towards, and there's other exchanges looking at it as well.

Starting point is 01:20:21 I won't name who they are, but there's top-tier exchanges looking at this, is I think that there needs to be, we're at a stage now where meme coins are evolving into something that's here to stay. And you said that yourself, Iago, where there needs to be kind of the Binance of meme coins. There is the Binance of token launches where everyone would sell their kidney to get onto these projects because they're listing on Binance, they've gotten that Binance stamp of approval. There's nothing like this for meme coins. And I think the person, the exchange, the launchpad, the names that managed to position themselves there,

Starting point is 01:20:48 it's going to be very lucrative financially. It's going to be very healthy for the space. I don't think you're wrong. But once again, I think that you and I, maybe, you're maybe somewhere in the middle, you're missing the point. By the time it would need somebody to vet it and be centralized and listed and you're told it's reputable, it's already gone. But that, that, that,

Starting point is 01:21:09 so that's the whole thing. No, I'm saying that's why we need to bucket these. I think what Mario is saying is that when there's a gold rush. Who said I disagree? Yeah, of course. Dig for gold. Who said, who said I disagree? I agree with you mario i mean yeah yeah i i'm just gonna say mario i i actually agree with you because here's the thing i mean i remember like when we worked together two years ago the whole thing was binance right when you get binance listed obviously those that know i worked at binance as well there is nothing

Starting point is 01:21:39 like that for meme coins but the the idea is if someone has a narrative and they have a following behind them they have a team right like you know it's it's a different sense of a launch pad or an exchange that would be developed around that it wouldn't be like a binance right people would have the understanding yeah some things go to zero but if that had a reputation if that entity was developed in that way i mean everything that went on it would end up based not so you're saying not centralized this because i would say that the reason that this is going crazy, maybe I'll give it right as a positive is because last cycle, you needed a central, like I said at the beginning, last cycle you needed a centralized exchange,

Starting point is 01:22:13 literally to be able to trade this stuff. So there were months long waiting lists just to be able to buy Doge. The bullish case for, you know, for decentralization and the evolution of this space is that you don't need anyone's permission to do this nonsense anymore. Yeah, exactly. But you could, yeah. But I think you could like a project launch. And yes, I'll go to you right after I say this, but project, for example,

Starting point is 01:22:32 a fair launch versus a launch where the founders hold a significant percentage of the liquidity. That's the most obvious indicator of a project that is, is more likely to do well versus a price going to fail. Like you can launch, it just depends how decentralized is the launch. You're going to go through a few rugs, as Gustav said earlier, you're going to go through a few rugs

Starting point is 01:22:49 before getting to decentralization, or you're going to go through decentralization from the get-go and be transparent about it. I think this is a difference. And also have a credible team that's, you know, going to be careful with the launch and make sure everything goes smoothly. But Yazan, you said you had some statistics.

Starting point is 01:23:03 So from on-chain data, by the way, this is like on-chain data, will show you that more than 95% of people that make wealth on meme coins lose 95% of that money one way or another within a couple of years. But I'm being conservative. I'm saying 95%. I'm being very generous you know because 99 closer to 99 yes so say that number again yes i can you repeat it again slowly just for the please listen everybody we're gonna wrap soon but especially investors and traders that are

Starting point is 01:23:35 not deep in the ecosystem or don't have clout or reputation to get in pre-sales please listen to what yes i was about to say say it again 95, Yazan. 95%. This is on-chain data. It's verified. You can go check history on-chain of any meme coin, and you're going to realize that more than 95% on every single meme coin of investors that invested in that meme coin are in loss more than 95% of their money. So that goes for more than 99.99% of projects in meme coins, generally speaking. Now, that's the risk with meme coins. And understanding that risk will make you do better decisions. For example, Gustavo, you need to be one in a thousand to win on every meme coin,

Starting point is 01:24:22 turns it into 50k, 100k, takes his profit, and he moves on with his life. He goes to the next one. And the issue is that there's bag holders. And that's what ends up happening and how communities get formed. You get drugged, project goes down 99%. Now you want to convince everyone around you that this is a good project while you're dollar cost averaging into it in hopes that one day it's going to go up again. And I'm being serious. Like, I think like this is actually what goes on. If I get rugged on a bag and I'm overly invested in it, you know, I invested six figures in this meme coin and it didn't go as I expected it to do. I'm going to start to try to tell other people that this is a great

Starting point is 01:25:05 meme. It's been drugged. There's no potential of it getting drugged again. Let's form a culture. Let's host spaces. Let's tell everyone how amazing it is, because one day it may go up again and then I get to make my money back, even possibly make profits. And that's how actually most of the memes that generated right after Pepe, Mog was one of them. Bobo was another one. And these meme coins pumped, you know, to 10 million, 20 million market cap, dumped to 1 million market cap. And now they're at 300 million, at 100 million market cap. So, again, if you can go through that volatility and have the patience to develop and work on building a culture then you're building a case but some of like what plasma was saying earlier some of these meme coins

Starting point is 01:25:51 have like mimetics to them you can meme them they're easily they're easy to use you know that's kind of thing yeah let me let me let me get right judges he brought up a good one that's easy to understand mario it's he brought up bobo which is part of the pepe verse and that's a very easy one to understand you have pepe who's huge and they're launching dodo uh bobo uh the crab one um what am i going to explain what am i going going to explain, Scott, to when I have a senator or something coming to talk about the Ukraine war? And they just come on.

Starting point is 01:26:29 Let me check out Mario's spaces. They come on, and we're talking about a project we're back. That's my concern, which I'm going to take the risk anyway. And they hear Bobo, crab, peppers, this crab one, and the monkey one. Dude. I think these are ecosystems that are good case studies. This is my concern. But at the same time, these are names.

Starting point is 01:26:44 These are narratives. And they're funny. All right, cool. But they, you know, there's $5 billion, um, $5 billion market cap that disagrees with your, with you mocking them. Well, like what we're, and I want to go to Gustavo and then you Scott, and then I'll kind of wrap it up. Is that what Gustavo, the question I have for you is what are you in band to? Cause I know Ryan dropped off you and better. What is your strategy moving forward in the means I have for you is what are you in band to? Cause I know Ryan dropped off. You in band to, what is your strategy moving forward in the memes?

Starting point is 01:27:06 Because I know Ryan is getting into it and he's got a weekly meme show. And I know some of the behind the scenes things he's doing, we're doing them together. What is your strategy guys? You can speak on behalf of Ryan Gustavo. And then I'm going to ask Scott the same question. Scott, me and you work together with partners and, and, and a lot of the stuff, but let's go to Gustavo first. So, uh, I just, I just i just wanna can you hear me yeah no

Starting point is 01:27:28 more meme coin talking about no no this is this is more more like your strategy as a business as banter capital or whatever you you were talking about like um spotting certain trends no no no no no no that's all I'm talking about. So Banter right now, right, what he's doing, he's doing a weekly show on meme coins. I don't know what the monetization model is, whatever you can share, of course. I've talked about mine pretty transparently. And I know that there's a few more things

Starting point is 01:27:56 he's doing he hasn't announced yet. We'll be announcing together. But what is your strategy at Banter that you know of in the meme sphere? Honestly, to be completely honest, my main strategy is producing educational content because obviously the vast majority of my money is

Starting point is 01:28:11 obviously not in meme cards because I know the risks. I know it's too much volatility. Obviously, if you guys have profits, obviously you should take your profits. These things are all going to zero, obviously, like you guys were saying. Educational content is like your big focus right now, yeah? Yeah, of course. The vast majority of my money is in SUI.

Starting point is 01:28:29 Nice. And do you have, is it like a gate kept education, so you have to pay, subscribe to be part of the community, which I think is a good monetization model? No, no, it's going to be just like the other hosts. I'm going to do educational contests. I'm going to do airdrop content because I've made a lot of money on airdrops.

Starting point is 01:28:50 And I think there's some space for me there as well. And also in meme coins. But to me, meme coins, I put it in the gambling category.

Starting point is 01:28:58 You know, it's meme coins, gambling. To me, it's all in the same category. Okay, meme coins are going to be part of the educational system.

Starting point is 01:29:04 And I know Brian is doing other things, but I'll let him announce them when he's ready. Scott, what's the same category okay me of course gonna be part of the educational system and i know brian is doing other things but i'll let him announce someone he's ready scott what's your strategy on the wolf of wall street if any with me because i know we've got the show together with joe avoid avoid entirely and try to warn people of the risks based on the statistics that we just heard that 99 of people who make money are going to lose 99% of their money. We know that even with trading alone in legacy markets, 95% of traders lose. And not only do they lose, they lose all of their capital in the first two to three months of trading. This is statistical fact. And that's not even flipping memes. That's trying to trade stocks of companies that have earnings and P&L. So what's going to happen to of companies that have, uh, you know, uh, earnings and PNL.

Starting point is 01:29:46 So what's going to happen to all of you listening, if you follow all this and try to jump in, I'm, and I'm talking about, I'm not talking about investing in all coins or meme coins that actually have utility. I'm talking about the hot potato of Elizabeth Warren and Gary fuck face or whatever those stupid shit you guys are creating. You're going to lose all your money. And I hope it's only 1% of your money and not a hundred percent of your money, because apparently people, it's like, everybody's jumping into the casino and they think they're like going to church or something. There's some fundamental value here. And it's a, it's a hidden casino in the back. There's no value here. There's no reason to participate in it unless you just are doing it for fun. And you're

Starting point is 01:30:22 just going to, you're going to get absolutely rinsed. You're going to get washed and you're going to still see the one influencer on Twitter who you think made so much money and was rich. And that guy's also going to lose his money in 18 months when the bear market starts. So no, I'm not doing constant on this. Like, yes, Joe has a show and he will talk about meme coins. This is an alpha show, but he's going to be talking about meme coins one or two days a week when that's the big thing but he's going to move on the minute that it moves on to something else because this is stupid like it's stupid i'm not i do think there are meme coins here that have fundamental value or building things we didn't really give them like the the platform necessarily

Starting point is 01:30:59 today that's the part i'm converted on but the more i hear about i mean guys people who win the lottery in the United States, hundreds of millions of dollars, one third of them are bankrupt within two years. You can talk about people who make hundreds of millions of dollars. That is a fact. Easy money will go right back to someone else. It's passing through you.

Starting point is 01:31:19 You're not going to keep it. So don't fuck with this. Just don't do it. Yes, I'm more in the middle between right and Scott, as I said earlier. I have the same concerns that Scott does, especially, obviously, with us branching well beyond crypto now.

Starting point is 01:31:33 But at the same time, I also see the value in supporting meme coins that are decentralized, that are past the pump and dump stage. So what we're doing, Scott, is that we're going to start having meme coins on stage. I think we'll be a lot more risk averse than ran. Having meme coins on stage that are at a certain market cap, meet a certain criteria, essentially just being as decentralized as possible and just having a look

Starting point is 01:31:56 at the community and their theme. You know Bob Bray, Scott, he's the one that's a complete DJ. He doesn't like speaking on spaces, but he's our version of Gustavo. And that's his obsession. So I think there's value in that. I know there's an exchange also doing a launchpad for meme coins. And there's another one that we'll be announcing tomorrow that we'll be partnering with. But I think there is need for some sort of vetting

Starting point is 01:32:20 because the average retail investor can't do the same DD as Gustavo or doesn't even have time to go through all the educational content that Gustavo and others put out. So that's our strategy. We are launching, I think we either did or about to launch a meme coin space. First one, the first two went really well, if anyone's seen them. So we're going to be doing more of them. But I'm also really concerned because right now we're in extreme greed. Everyone's hyped up. And I don't want to fall into the trap that Yago was talking about. You just made it informal. And you start jeopardizing credibility

Starting point is 01:32:49 and jeopardizing other areas of our business and long-term credibility over quick money. Because a lot of the KOLs from the last bull market disappeared now. A lot of the KOLs from the 2017 bull market disappeared in the last one. You just got to be very, very careful. And I see a lot of people that have built that reputation now

Starting point is 01:33:07 in the meme space and just in general in crypto. They've built a reputation. They're only bad, good quality projects, kind of the Binance of the KOLs. But at the same time, you've got to fall trap to one fuck up. You've got to accept one project that pays you enough to kind of pass, to go through your DD without actually passing your DD.

Starting point is 01:33:25 And then you just fuck up everything. It takes a second to lose something that you used to kind of pass to go through your dd without actually passing your dd and then you just fuck up everything i was guilty i was guilty of being the ultimate absolute moon boy boltard at the last of the last at the end of the last market i was holding a hundred altcoins i would post in charts about how bitcoin was going to 235 000 and all these altcoins that i was holding were going to go up another 50 or 100 hundred percent within like a month of the dead top and held a lot of them, huge parts of them, like everyone else down massively. It's everybody's a victim of the same thinking and the same phenomenon in all markets.

Starting point is 01:33:56 The good thing is I also sold a bunch of shit at different times and made sure that once I had enough on the table that it could meaningfully change my life, I was going to do that. You're hosting meme coin spaces. I would listen. I'm not necessarily a betting man, even though I'm a trader, I would say you're going to need a new hobby in three weeks. You're going to have to pivot that show to something that is still like hyped because we're going to find a new way. It was airdrops three weeks ago that it was meme coins and it was pre-sales for meme coins. it's just going to evolve until it explodes but that's that's that's that's no meme coins like it's like it's like you know it's like ideas and ios it's always

Starting point is 01:34:33 going to be there go through hype cycles and a cycles because we'll always be there i think like what our strategy is gotten you know pretty transparent about it like with with the countdown shows that we do we've been very. All the Binance projects go on there as like green, you know, kind of blank check to go on these shows because they're backed by Binance. So we accept those projects. We accept projects that have massive hype

Starting point is 01:34:53 and they go on the top exchanges or launch pads, you know, the Bybit and Qcoins of the exchanges. I think there's room to do the same thing in the meme world, to do like a countdown space. There'll be one announced today or tomorrow, a countdown space for meme coins that pass certain level of DD. That would be our strategy.

Starting point is 01:35:10 Look, I hope it turns out well, and I hope we can build that credibility of like the Binance of meme coins. But I also understand that it's a risk I'm taking away. It could backfire in a year's time. I don't think it'll backfire as long as you're honest with people. I'm just saying like, this will be a hype cycle like any other.

Starting point is 01:35:26 And then like you said, it'll, it'll cool. No matter how honest, no matter how, no matter how honest you are, a fucker. Like if you have a project that goes on, that ends up rugging, you could have been honest about the risks of, well, from the beginning, Scott, you know, exactly what I'm talking about. It's not even rugging. It's literally just if the price goes down, like, uh, you know,

Starting point is 01:35:41 like I was sharing things in the last cycle that, uh, you cycle that went down 90%. Bitcoin went down 85%. But if you talked about an altcoin that went down 95%, apparently you're a rug puller. So I agree with you. They weren't even scams. They just failed. Especially people outside of crypto. The biggest amount of hate I received when we blew up with the whole political side was, hey, Mario's a pump and dump because he invested in those projects that went down 90, 95%. They don't understand that our tokens are locked.

Starting point is 01:36:10 We sold none of them because they're locked for three, four years. That's a VC investment. They don't care about any of this shit. They don't know that everything in crypto dropped 90, 95%. They're like, hey, Mario's projects, the ones his VC invested in, dropped 90, 95%. In their mind, they don't understand that all of crypto is like this. A lot of these projects

Starting point is 01:36:25 could pump again in the next bull market. And the same thing will happen with meme tokens. So it's a risk that you got to take and you got to balance both of them out. But like I look for the last message for the audience,

Starting point is 01:36:33 I think just be extremely careful if you're a retail investor, extremely careful. Don't go into the whole hype FOMO phase, like the super cycle phase we had in the last or many people had in the last bull market.

Starting point is 01:36:43 Because a lot of you will lose, you know, who was on stage earlier, 95 Cause a lot of you will lose, you know, who was on stage earlier at 95% or whatever and will lose X amount, most of their money. So, so there are a lot of people, Mario, there are a lot of people, there are a few people, Gustavo clearly like who are excellent at this, but guys, it's, it's like a sport, you know, very few people are going to be really,

Starting point is 01:37:00 really good at it or going to be able to see the matrix and be able to do this stuff. And no matter how hard you try to learn from them you're gonna be the dumb ass who like becomes a passionate community member down 99.9 sorry conclusion it took me a long time to convince the guys to do a meme coin space we did one i think we're pretty well we're gonna do more of them and scott will probably hate me for it for a long time but i think it's we're gonna keep doing those and these meme coin spaces will be more focused on the industry as a whole but i think this is uh it's here to stay scott sorry man i agree it's here to stay all right well scott i'm gonna i'm gonna wrap it up guys i appreciate everyone coming on uh way past the schedule so we'll see you again

Starting point is 01:37:35 tomorrow when we're discussing going back to the etf regulations and markets in general back to the stuff scott likes thanks a lot everyone we'll see you again be careful

The Wolf Of All Streets - The Great Memecoin Debate | Crypto Town Hall

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