The Wolf Of All Streets - The Next Big Thing: Beniamin Mincu's MultiversX and the Future of AI, Crypto & Metaverse

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Join us as we chat with Beniamin Mincu, the visionary founder of Elrond, as he shares his latest project MultiversX. In this episode, Beniamin reveals his big vision for the future of AI, crypto, and metaverses and how he is leveraging these technologies to build a better future for all. Tune in to learn about the latest developments in the world of metaverse technology and how it is set to revolutionize the way we live, work, and play. Don't miss out on this exciting conversation with one of the most innovative minds in the tech industry! https://twitter.com/beniaminmincu ►►THE DAILY CLOSE BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS. 👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/   ►►BITGET GET UP TO A $8,000 BONUS IN USDT AND GET MASSIVE DISCOUNTS ON TRADING FEES! 👉 https://thewolfofallstreets.info/bitget    ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets   ►►COINROUTES TRADE SPOT & DERIVATIVES ACROSS CEFI AND DEFI USING YOUR OWN ACCOUNTS WITH THIS ADVANCED ALGORITHMIC PLATFORM. SAVE TONS OF MONEY ON TRADING FEES LIKE THE PROS! 👉 http://bit.ly/3ZXeYKd  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/   Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Crypto #AI #Metaverse Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:43 Bear markets are good for crypto 4:13 Pivot to Mutiverse X 13:45 Grand vision for the metaverse 19:50 Crypto & AI 23:30 The layer of truth 29:35 The future of ChatGPT 43:40 Applications for the MultiverseX 53:40 Reaching 1 billion people to care about crypto 58:40 Wrap up The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

I'm going to cut to the chase. There are very few people in the crypto world who can articulate the grandest and greatest possible vision of what crypto and AI in conjunction with crypto can bring to the world. Benjamin Minku from Elrond, now MultiverseX, is one of those people I've had him on countless times. You guys always love it. And what he presents here, the future that is possible, is something that you have to hear. So basically, every project leader, CEO, developer I've talked to in the past few

months has said the exact same thing, which is bear markets are great for building. We're really enjoying this. Is that the case for you as well? 100%. I mean, since we've last had a discussion, we've had some really major milestones, whether we're discussing about the X-Day conference, the first one we've had for the Elrond at that time ecosystem, where we announced transformation to Multiverse X, announced a series of products that we were going to release, doing all of that at the, let's say, peak of the bear market with with everything unfolding um in the in the backstage but then having some really really

significant conversations with um two ministers of two countries with several projects that have been building um quite heavy and and quite in a quite focused way on the Multiverse ecosystem. And then since then, we've been releasing several new products or upgrades to the main products that we are extremely, extremely excited about. I forgot, the conference was in November, right? So it was literally during the FTX news. Yeah, it was a few days between those. I remembered messaging you and it would have been great to have you with us and so forth. But it has been a crazy period, both for the market with everything that has been unfolding and for us just navigating the entire period and the things basically coincided or coinciding almost as a timing. But I guess we've really pushed forward despite all the market conditions and it's great to see,

have some silence in some sense where you can really focus on building. We've been focusing on this the entire period, but now I think the last few months people have been seeing this and some fruits of the things we've been building for quite some time. Yeah, like I said at the beginning, that's the sentiment that I sort of get is that it's nice to not have your community and the general populace focusing simply on the price of the asset right there actually once the prices go down and everything quiets down you can see who's there to see what you're actually building you can see who's going to actually use it who's passionate about the product and not just who was there because the price went up rapidly yeah we we've actually seen this and i think every founder and every project and every ecosystem will um will be quite happy to

see the markets not tank every day like the macro conditions not uh be in flames flames week after week. And then you getting surprised how bad, how worse it can become. But on the other hand, taking a bit of a detached, let's say, position and focusing on and refocusing on the things that matter is how you get through the really tough market situations that we've seen. So obviously, when we started talking, when I was first investing in the project, you were Elrond, right? And the coin was ERD. And then you had a rebrand to eGold. Now we're on to Multiverse X. So talk about that evolution, why you've decided to continue iterating and pivoting, and what it looks like now, sort of in its, I know it's not the final state, but I guess in the first iteration of Multiverse X. Sure. We love to think about this idea as a kind of

re-founding moment, where, as opposed to making this superficial or trivial change that we woke up to one morning, we're in fact thinking about where that the technology might be in 10-20 years. What are some of the fundamental applications that we're going to talk about days and days in a row for years now. And then reasoning from that, we're trying to position everything we've built with the entire toolset and with the ecosystem at the cutting edge or epicenter of this change that is about to come and unfold. And so we loved the concept of Elrond, of course, and there was a lot of meaning to that that has given strength to the ecosystem and to the community. But I think when you look at multiverse to the power of X, you can see a few really bright and interesting ideas that we believe will very likely light up the way as sort of a North Star for the

for the years to come and one of the ideas is this that there is a lot of excitement despite what Meta is doing around building a metaverse ecosystem a set of products and tools and experience that can improve your life, can complement, not replace, what you already have and love. And this entire point, we believe, is very, very accurately captured in the idea of not the metaverse, but rather the multiverse. So the idea that you have both the physical world and this new virtual set of worlds that you want to explore, expand, and take to the very limits, and a better idea than just fighting between the physical world and the metaverse world and so forth is to take a step back, look at the entire space and then say, the multiverse gives us enough mental space to explore the physical world to still push for progress in

that space. And this is what we've been doing with Elrond and we believe will continue to do with the backbone that we're setting for the financial ecosystem but then moving a step beyond that we hope to extend expand and complement everything we love within the physical space, within this new sort of boundless imaginative space where you don't have the limits that you inherit in the physical world and that we're trying to push forward really, really hard. So the idea with the multiverse is that you have the space, we're at the intersection between worlds, and with everything we're building, we're trying to bridge the lines, offer a bridge to the world, to the users, to experiment these applications, and to see where they can take them, what they can build and take that into practice with the tools that we

have unveiled already. I've always admired your ability to think very big, right? And be many steps ahead, I think, of other people who are building in the space. And that's the first time I've heard you articulate the multiverse idea. And it makes so much sense. While everybody's focused on the metaverse, it's very vague to me what that means. And I've made this argument quite a few times. I don't think that people are going to plug into a machine and live in the metaverse, whatever that looks like, 24-7 and ignore their day-to-day lives. And so I think the multiverse concept that you're describing makes a lot of sense where these metaverse ideas, the things being built in Web3 can act as improvements on a day-to-day basis to your everyday life. Maybe you're looking through some sort of hardware and the advertisements that you see are more interactive and you can press a button and that orders something to your house. And so you're sort of bridged between these two worlds. I mean, is that conceptually sort of what we're talking about here? And do you agree that people are not going to necessarily plug into the metaverse 24-7

and go live a completely alternate second life? I mean, the idea of the multiverse has, of course very definite um let's say definition um that comes from physics and um just gives you the idea of the multiple universes that are happening at the same time whether with it's with quantum physics and so forth but But without going into that, I do believe that it's the simplest way to capture the harmonious way between this, the interplay between these two worlds. You have the physical space, you have a duty to continue to try to improve this space and make it better and do so within the different regions where we live. But then there is something here that's totally new that gives us an ability to iterate with a speed that is incomparable to anything we could do in the physical

world, at least at this point. And exploring that, bringing maybe a new network of experiences and meaning that you can tie to the different applications or different events or different tools that you create within this set of virtual worlds is a good place to start. I'm sure we'll discover many, many ways in which these new worlds will enrich our lives. But to start from a network of interoperable, let's say, tools that gives you new meaning and new experiences that enrich your life is probably a very good place to start. Now, specifically to your question, coming back, whether we will plug in and stay 24-7 there, I think this is a bit of a dystopic view.

There is, Meta would bet on that, right? This is why they're trying to do what they're doing and so forth. They would hope you would immediately plug in and do that stuff. But I don't think this will happen anytime soon. And I'm not sure it will happen in the, let's say, near foreseeable future. It might even be a dystopia if it happens at any point in time, right? Because if enough... What's happening in the physical world to make you want to completely unplug 24-7 and go live in the digital world is a very scary sort of thought experiment.

Yeah, precisely. So Ready Player One, for instance, is this type of story where the world is so bad that the most exciting, interesting stuff is happening within this virtual world. And that speaks a bit not only about the virtual world, but also about the physical world. level, then I'm sure it will not be good if we have a super powerful drug that we can plug into, get really good at something and then forget about the physical world. So keeping things in harmony and bringing the feedback loop back. So you have this new metaverse world, perhaps you offer opportunities to different parts of the world that never could experience something that we, you and me experience. But then offering them those experiences is the first step. Bringing the feedback loop back into the physical world, whether it's in value, whether it's in people living a better life, a more fulfilled life.

That's something that we should always strive for. Think about how awful the world would have to be to want to go plug into Facebook and live there 24-7. I literally can't think of a worse dystopian possible future. I can't even sign onto Facebook and Web2 without getting hives. So it would have to be pretty bad. Yeah, it would be a pretty crazy world. But I'm sure if we don't do anything about it, it might actually happen. Sadly. Well, so obviously that presents the grand vision of what this could be. But you have to clearly take steps to get there, right?

And so obviously you have the Xportal app, which I'd like you to talk about and what Multiverse X is on a day-to-day basis. How do you use it? What are the verticals? How does it interact with these different facets of Metaverse and Web3? Obviously, DeFi, NFTs, Metaverse, we all know the main categories in crypto. How do you address each of those and what are you planning?

Sure. So coming, maybe starting from the standpoint of what we were discussing before, the concept of the multiverse is quite clear, but then we say this will be so vast that we're taking it to the limit. And this is why we say to the power of X that there will be so many applications, so many people building that this is in fact how the metaverse and the interplay between the physical world and the metaverse will unfold. And now what we believe specifically is that without a blockchain, the metaverse essentially

cannot exist in the sense that you can't have the fundamental layer on which you can define the rules that are distributed, that are decentralized, that are not dependent on a sole entity and that enable millions, tens of millions and hundreds of millions of people to build around the world and to experiment with this world. And so the entire tool set with the blockchain part that we've built that is super high performance is put to greatest use when we have a large ecosystem of potentially, let's say, planets that you could look at with different applications, with different benefits that the users could explore that then leverage the blockchain that we've built. And then when you look at this, we move one step further and say, within this new world, you want to be able to

create value. You want to be able to transfer value. You want to be able to easily own something and exchange it or share it with friends and so forth. So it seems like the thing that's in the normal world would seem very philosophical because you already have ownership, you already have rights, these are legally bound and so forth. In the metaverse world, you could essentially encapsulate those by mere technology. You don't need the legal, let's say, implications. This is a great starting point for everything that we've built around the exchanges, around the NFT marketplaces, around all the tools and benefits. And it brings us very close to the first stepping stone of the Xportal app. But I'm just wanting to make sure that at least the first part is much clearer.

That makes perfect sense. So let's talk about exactly what is in the app now at this point where you've started. And then I'd really like to get into the vision of what that can be. for the metaverse and for the physical world, then one key point to ask is what would be the simplest way for people to interact with these technologies to essentially give them access to digital finance, to essentially give them access to Web3 apps, to essentially give them access to metaverse events or experiences, and do so in a way that even our grandparents could immediately interact with the apps because they don't require you to learn rocket science and all of that. And so in Xportal, we've taken the exact opposite approach of what Facebook has been doing, mainly just focusing on the VR glasses and then hoping that everyone will

adopt the glasses all of a sudden and then move forward with that. We've reasoned from the standpoint of sort of first principle, where we asked, what's the simplest way to address the largest potential market? Well, it's clear that smartphones are the device that everyone in the world has, right? So on top of smartphones, we've built the simplest application possible that brings this entire tool set, this entire set of applications that enables anyone in the world to have a digital account, to create value, to exchange value, and then to also receive a card and then on top of that to have a almost an app store within the app itself where you get to see all the application web 3 applications that have been built um within the multiverse ecosystem and on top of that even more a set of events and experiences that enable you to move forward

and explore what the metaverse could be because this idea will change and evolve but doing all of this we've called the x portal a super app because as you can see there's quite a lot of features packed into one applications one application and if you if you consider what i've just said then saying that on top of this we also have a chat encrypted end-to-end encrypted chat feature and ai generated avatars then it's quite a bunch of features to put them elegantly into one application and share them with the world is quite a challenge, but we could not be more proud to have this out. So I want to talk about the AI generated avatars, but use that really as a bridge to discuss the potential of AI and crypto and how you think that's going to play out. It's clearly been the biggest narrative over the past few months since the

release of ChatGPT. We've seen coins that claim or are otherwise superficially involved in AI sort of having their big moments in price action. But do you think that there is a natural marriage between AI and blockchain technology moving forward? And if so, how do you intend to leverage that and build in that space? I mean, if we take AI and blockchains to their limits, I do believe that AI is almost like an all-powerful genie that you can take out of the bottle and that at its best it will almost solve every desire that you can possibly come up with um of course it will gradually do that um at first you you're going to say no this is bad this is not good this it cannot

do this and that yet and so forth but over over time, if you carefully look at the progress, it will be astounding. And I think that the milestones that we've reached during the previous months are just a tipping point telling a much bigger story of what's to come and what I believe will unfold even during this particular year. And then if you look at blockchain, I believe that in a world where you have almost an all-powerful genie that can rewrite or edit everything, there is a need for a counterbalance force that cannot be overridden, that cannot be edited. It doesn't matter how much power you have, how many flops you possibly have to solve something. The fact that cryptography cannot be broken and for as long as it stands, you have for the first time a way to prove digital integrity, to

make sure that history remains history and is not edited out completely. And I believe that we are very, very close to a point where blockchain will become essentially the clearest necessity just by virtue of how easy you'll be able to counterfeit everything when i can counterfeit almost everything that is being written at that point whoever can show that something is true and cannot be edited and it's valid um will will be able to provide a lot of value. And I believe that this is where blockchain will sit very, very strong and will be complementary to AI. And in fact, we have some application that is in the process and at some point we'll

have a discussion about it. It's interesting. It's become sort of the validator, the arbiter of truth. Almost it makes all of blockchain technology sort of the oracle. We have oracles obviously within crypto, but it becomes the oracle to verify information, data, and truth. And I didn't really think about it that way. I certainly think about the implications of AI and rewriting history. And we've all seen these endless, very realistic deep fakes, which are still first or which

are still sort of in their first and early iterations as well. It's terrifying, but I never thought of blockchain as sort of the layer of truth. That's a really interesting way to put it. Yeah. Ultimately, I do believe that without this type of layer of truth, you basically drown in deep fakes and counterfeit measures that basically will make you question absolutely everything. So senses are clearly out of their league. Like senses cannot tell you what's true or not true anymore. And so, during the next period, I do believe that blockchains will rise and give this very simple and very, very clear value,

without which we'll go in a very, very different and perhaps wrong direction. Yeah, I've spoken with Sam from Arweave before, and they sort of have this novel approach to gathering all real-time data, news, information, and putting it into a huge vault, but you still need to then be able to reference it to see what is true,

which seems like a huge challenge. It's a bit scary then to think about what if AI continues to proliferate, but does not have blockchain companies, projects focusing on validating that data? Because if that has to be the layer of truth, what happens if it's ignored and AI continues to be built without it? ChatGPT doesn't have a blockchain layer right i mean uh we're the the clearest point here will probably be when you have the first um significant crisis because it seems like people will always look at these things as two abstract philosophical terms um and especially with blockchain, with the perception that it had and so forth,

they're not taking things seriously until something is significantly wrong. And once that happened, at that point, it will probably immediately escalate into something like a counter force that you really, really need in order to survive. I wonder what it would take to push us that far, considering we've seen, obviously, Cambridge Analytica and Facebook and fake news widely distributed affecting elections.

I wonder how big of an AI deepfake we would need to see to really cause a panic in people who seem somewhat indifferent to being served fake news constantly? I mean, I would argue that at this point, there are probably degrees of fakes that are happening at several different stages or several different points. It's just that it has not dawned on people what the implications really are. Because as I said, until I tell you what the Soviet Union was doing with people that it did not want to exist. So it was not enough that people were killed, but they were essentially taken out of history like their entire lives were deleted and taken out and nobody knew that you even existed which is like

mind-blowing if you think about it now if i can do this with companies with governmental data and so forth, then it immediately becomes a national security discussion because whoever can do this will be able to wield a power that is probably a bit too large for the implications it carries. It's scary. I mean, I'm a huge fan of AI. I don't think it's going to replace everyone's jobs. I think that it will, much like how you described what you're building,

I think that it will make our lives better and it will be a tool that people use. But that more sinister side is a bit terrifying as to the potential if it does go unchecked by something like blockchain. And I would say that I'm also a very large, very strong believer in the high impact and high positive potential of AI.

But I also believe very strongly that maybe by the end of this year, we're going to reach a few different other milestones that will make people understand that you'll be able to do so many things if you control this simple tool, that whoever has it has better weapons, better whatever generalization, extrapolation of science, better engineering, better health, and better economics, for instance. If everything boils down to more flops that I can just focus on a particular problem that improves, then, as I said, I believe that not only will ai

probably become a national security discussion really fast because it seems like the military has not yet yeah waken up to the idea but blockchain will by necessity escalate to this type of conversation as well just because you need the counterbalance um as soon as you discover how how powerful this is you you only ask is there a way to distribute this power to decentralize to make sure that there's not only one person that has this and then even if they have it that at least they cannot modify some truths some ideas some some things that we should take for granted. So at the end of the day, it's scary. So at the end of the day, it just becomes the same sort of core ethos that we had for

blockchain, which is to decentralize centralized systems. 100%. 100%. And this is also where I think there will be an interplay between, by necessity, an interplay between AI and blockchains. So as a founder, I'm sure you're also looking for ways to leverage. And this was not meant to be an AI conversation, and we will pivot at least, but now I'm in it and I can't help myself. Right.

We've seen ChatGPT can code, right? It's doing at least intern level skills for a lot of people as it evolves how will you be able to use it actually on the development side uh to improve your workflow and allow you and your team then to have more freedom i guess to be creative and think about uh what you want to build for the future or is that really not on the radar yet? It is 100% and has been for years now. I've been very deeply reading and studying everything that has been happening in the field of AI for years now. In fact, interestingly enough, I've visited OpenAI and met with Sam at the beginning of 2018, where OpenAI was far from where it is right now. And so forth. We've had at that point some conversations about blockchains, about AI and

all of that. But what I'm saying specifically is that I've not only been looking at this from the standpoint of, yeah, it's super cool, interesting, and it makes the news and so forth, but have been constantly trying to ask, what's the technology that's underlying the current renaissance and transformation that we've seen, is there something that's much more fundamental or counterintuitive than maybe most of the people have not understood yet beyond what it can do right now? And so even ChatGPT, which is based on Transformers technology, which is based on a technology that has been in the evolution for some time has reached a certain threshold that for the first time has enabled what we've discovered now in November and December and so forth. But the interesting part is that there are now a few ideas here which are extremely, extremely fascinating, which, for instance, is the idea that transformers as an architecture are almost like a new type of computer that can interpret,

help you interpret and process data in a way unlike anything that has been happening before. And so as you learn what this new architecture can do, you gradually discover that it can be applied, large language models with GPT-3 and now GPT-4 and so forth, can be applied to completely different problems than what you thought. For instance, text is one discussion, of course, and what it can synthesize and process and give you as ideas, but then applying it to image and then applying it to video and then applying it to sound and then applying it to all these different spaces with results that are incomparable to what usually took people years to learn and to grasp

is something that is absolutely fascinating. And so coming back to your point, I do believe that we're close to the point where English might be the most widespread programming language, might become the most widespread programming language. Because if with a few words, I can create the most beautiful image that moves me, like moves the people and it creates emotion and it's almost like a work of art, then of course, then I'll be able to write something, I'll be able to compose something. And then of course, I'll also be able to write new applications, write new code. And so

we've been having a few experiments inside. We've been building a sort of bot of our own with open source technology, just using it, for instance, to process documentation, to first respond, give you all the answers regarding to the multiverse ecosystem, the multiverse documentation, the tooling and all of that, which was really cool because we took this apart and learned a few lessons. But we definitely plan to have this embedded and implemented in several of the products that we're building because this is indispensable.

Once you see it, it's clearly the one thing that you cannot go without the next day. Yeah, it's a very deep rabbit hole when you start to think about it. I mean, there's no reason that A, you shouldn't have an imaginary assistant, imaginary friend. You should be communicating directly with voice to your AI that helps you solve everything that you're doing and gives you your directions and tells you when to pick up your kids. But then also, as you dug into the artistic side, I've seen people working on things that are like a custom remix of a song that is delivered differently to every single person based on their profile of likes and what they enjoy and is constantly iterative. And so you

have this song that's literally just for you that nobody else hears. You send it to someone else and it changes something slightly for them. I mean, everything should become deeply personal and moving for the individual in a way that it was never possible before. I find that just astounding. Totally agree. I mean, for this idea just to play out in the different fields, it's going to be extraordinary as the year unfolds because I do see several competitors to, for instance, OpenAI and ChatGPT.

And a bit of competition on this side makes things even more interesting just because they're escalating, accelerating, ideally, hopefully not reaching a version of AGI that takes off into something else too soon. Hopefully not. We end up living in the matrix as batteries, right? I don't think any of us want that. But what you've described, you're boldly stating by the end of this year. And usually people are thinking five years down the road, 10 years down the road. But the zero to one jump for consumers of nothing to chat GPT was mind-blowing for me,

personally. And I know that it can barely do anything yet. It's still operating on an old data set. Why? And we've talked about this before, but this is an even clearer example of how difficult it is for people to think exponentially. The hockey stick curve of technology and how fast it starts to adapt, it's already at an insane level. And it sounds like that's going to multiply by thousands of times and very fast. Because this is a technology that once it's out of the bag and people are continuing to allow it to evolve is going to be so fast that our lives could literally look different a year from now

than they do entirely. 100%. Yeah. It's only a question of how will this be incorporated into a product that you carry on with you. Like, it's clear that you'll have it, for instance, on your phone. It's clear that you'll have it in different tools. But then you remember maybe in our last conversation, we were discussing about Neuralink. Imagine Neuralink with this type of tool embedded in it, like a version that is literally complementing everything you have as a cortex and limbic system. At that point, it becomes a bit too crazy, perhaps for this chat, but I think we're not too far from that point. Yeah, we become superhuman, assuming that it's all for good and works out the way that we hope. But imagine if when you're having a certain thought, it gives you the information that

you need to improve on or complete that thought. Or if you're working on something, it subliminally gives you the answer that you've been reaching for. I mean, writer's block and artistic block and people who don't have a full knowledge of a certain industry. Well, really, it's like the Matrix is the best example. You're in the Matrix and they plug you in and they teach you karate, right? And all of a sudden you can do every level of martial arts that exists. Is that really what we're looking at here? I mean, of course, as you probably know, when the users probably know, Elon wants to always

focus on the specific milestones first, like the medical milestones and so forth. But input output has definitely been the most fundamental limitations for humans forever. Being able to lift the input-output limitation to be able to absorb an entire book in one second, like for instance, an entire song in one second, how would that change experience? How would that change communication? How would that change experience how would that change communication how would that change the way we create things and evolve or learn i mean that's a definitely interesting path to to explore and follow and um i'm i'm yeah quite quite excited to see how how things unfold on that space right so and that's already happened AI. I remember the early AI that would play chess against people and took time to learn and

could then beat the best chess players in the world. Well, now apparently the AI can play basically every chess game that's ever been played in history in a matter of seconds and beat anyone that's ever lived after learning the game of chess five seconds before, right? I don't know the exact numbers, but that's where we're already at. So the application of that to humans is almost unthinkable. Yeah, maybe a good way of thinking of superlatives and perhaps afterwards we can move to blockchain.

But if we want to think about superlatives when it comes to AI, perhaps a productive way of thinking is, let's say you have superlative level one that is literally an exceptional AI that can synthesize everything that exists in the world on a subject. You know the state of the art instantly with accuracy that is extremely precise on that subject and just being able to synthesize that is a massive, massive step because medicine and a lot of actual breakthroughs come at first from mere synthesis that is very carefully put together, organized, and fully understood. Now, superlative level two might be a way of saying, this is the state of the art, but I can extrapolate the state of the art in fields outside of what the current principles speak about. I can take something from physics, apply it to economics and say, no, there's a better model of the world that could explain everything that

we're doing in a much more productive way and would enable us to scale growth, to scale everything that we wanted and so forth. And that's even more difficult than synthesis. For instance, ChatGPT has a good way of synthesis, but for now cannot extrapolate really well in almost any difficult, let's say, subject or problem. But then the third level is you have synthesis, you have extrapolation potentially, but are you able to essentially invent an entire new field with an entire new tool set, entire new rules and so forth, where it has not or never existed before? For instance, one says, I'm just applying the example to chess. The first level would say, here are all the games that have been played.

And I can synthesize what the best move had been throughout history and win the game just based on historic moves. Second level says, I know all the moves that have been played, but I know that I can break psychologically my opponent by making him believe this or that. And then I can extrapolate and make some moves that have not been done at any point in time. Third level says, chess does not exist. Could you from scratch invent the game of chess and just start building on top of it? Because those are completely new concepts that we take for granted right now. So yeah, we could go three days and three nights only in exploring this.

I do believe this will be a constant conversation that we're going to have throughout this year. And it doesn't seem like you will be able to make to create a progress without understanding what's happening in this field, especially during the next months. Because it seems like at the cutting edge, something big has happened. Few understand the implications yet, but I believe something even bigger is about to unfold with the arms race that we're going to see. That's scary. And we could talk about it for three days and three nights more, but I do want to pivot, obviously, back to blockchain and obviously continue talking about what you're building.

But maybe outside of AI and the known verticals that we've discussed, the obvious ones, right? Our DeFi summers, our NFT summers, our Metaverse falls. What other applications do you see coming that you're preparing for that maybe are not on everyone's radar? Well, the key point with the concept of the multiverse is, as I've said before, that I believe there will be several phases. And it's almost like you have this singularity moment, this new inception from which things unfold and start. And you'll have different phases you have the protocol phases where you're trying to build something scalable and and so forth then you have the

tooling phases when you're trying to put the tools in place so that you can really build some cool applications and i do believe we've now reached the point where um for the first time three types of applications are possible that will enrich the entire ecosystem the will bring this all these benefits that we're discussing about to the world but then will also enable much faster iteration speed And so what I'm discussing about here is you can really think about blockchains as a new type of computer. Again, with just a few novel primitives, whether it's cryptographic guarantees, transparency, and deterministic programmable contracts. Those are extremely important primitives, especially in a world with AI. And so thinking about this new computer, a simple question might be what are some of the

applications that are made possible by this computer, either for the first time or are much, much more efficient with this type of computer than some of the other normal or conventional computers. And so we've generally looked at four types of applications whether it's an entire class of financial applications that can be encoded programmatically for the first time and enable not only the simple ownership idea to exist in a digital form that is decentralized and decoupled from a state, from legal frameworks and all of that, but then you also have a cultural class of application, a governance set of applications, and there's also this idea around the deep truth set of applications. It's just the opposite of everything you can do with AI.

My question and our entire discussion has been, how do we enable, for instance, the financial interface to be accessible to anyone in the world? You might remember this in our previous conversation, but then how do we enable you, for instance, to have the wallet, whether you're in Africa, whether you're in the US or in Romania, have the same conversation, have accessibility, be able to create, whether it's a digital currency for your company, for your country, or for yourself, to create NFTs, to organize your team, your company, make decisions and do so in a very, very simple way. And then at the same time, I believe that applying these tools within the metaverse space will open a different phase

for this entire ecosystem and set of applications. So of course, we have Xportal, Xfabric, and Xworlds as three applications that we're very much focusing on this year, in addition to all the tools that we've unveiled. Xportal is this idea that we want to enable the next billion people and to join the space to interact with web3 and when I said say web3 I'm not only referring to the blockchain set of tools and apps but also AI tools and apps and avatars are just a one scratching a bit the surface and and bringing the people into something that's much cooler and much larger. But then with Xfabric, we're taking some of these primitives that I was discussing before and sharing them in a language that's different from Xportal, which is the user language, right?

Simple users want the story, want the benefits, want for all of that to be immediately accessible. And so Xfabric is this different type of language that's for builders, whether the builders are the companies, whether they're creatives for all over the world, or whether they're institutions. Having something that as an interface does not bore you with the rocket science part but gives you an accessible tool to employ your own blockchain and secure

all the data that you have for instance whether it's just your your financial data whether it's document that you want to cryptographically sign and and secure or whether it's much larger applications like um a sort of digital currency that you want to have within your company or within your group or within your team um these types of applications are are interesting and cool but I also believe that beyond this we have x worlds and x worlds um I believe will open up this conversation to people outside of the crypto space either real businesses that want to have for instance um meetings educators that want to bring in people from all over the world to give them an experience that's different from what they had accessible locally.

And then if I make the three applications more vividly applied, imagine a business that has one of the most important meetings. And instead of bringing the people locally, they meet somewhere where they're on an interesting planet. It's exotic. You have some conversations. You amaze your partners. You close the deal and it's super productive for you. Or even imagine just you and your team having the weekly meetings at the end of the week where they're in a cool environment, you can really interact. Some of the people might be remote from other parts of the world. Being able to access the metaverse like that can be immediately useful and immediately beneficial right now. Now, switching the same idea, switching it a bit and saying, what's the best version

of education that you could think about? Imagine, for instance, having a Nobel laureate give a talk about either fundamental physics or economics or psychology or whatever you want, and then being with him in the same space and interacting and looking at everything he demonstrates and shows, and it's almost in real time. You're there with friends or with people from all over the world and that's education definitely made more exciting more interesting and more fulfilling and then um the last point here for for metaverses imagine for instance um events and um most importantly, entertainment events. Just imagine meeting for concerts, for social gatherings, being there with friends, having a lot of fun, wherever you may be in the world, right?

Those are applications that are not so far off on the extreme. We could discuss about more philosophical terms of ideas of rebuilding entire cities, rebuilding entire planets, trying different models of governance or of just different economic models, different governance models and so forth. But you can immediately see some applications that if available in a way that anyone can access them, if they're not bound to the glasses, for instance, and you can log in from your computer, from your phone and so forth, and the experiences are fulfilling, they're really exciting and inspiring. At that point, you'll want to be in this space, you'll want to explore, and at the end of the day, I believe that the computer with the internet and with the metaverse and everything that's coming beyond that is just there, should be at least, just there to improve our lives and give us better opportunities to make our lives more fulfilled.

You and I have had a repeated conversation and what you just touched on seems to always be the theme. How do we reach a billion people? How do we reach mass adoption? Now, I think one of the answers we always have is UX, UI, building something that grandma can use, abstracting away the technical complexity that comes with it. Now, obviously, we've discussed a lot of other things that you're building that are accessible and will be useful for that billion people. But how do we get that billion people to look at the app in the first place and start to use it? Maybe it's a marketing answer that I'm unaware of. Maybe we need a Steve Jobs. Maybe that's you.

But so how do we get a billion people to care? I think that's the question. So even if they can use it and it can scale, I think our first conversation literally was about your transactions per second, right? Because it was so long ago. Sure. That was scalable. Then it was about building apps that anyone could understand and use now sure you have the speed you have the ux ui so how do we get the

billion people to care um this is this is the best question um and it's the best question because um Because you can look at this in a few ways. I believe we're now at the point where we, with the Xportal app, we sort of have unveiled a kind of iPhone moment where people are just discovering the app. It's already extremely useful. Like finance, everyone wants finance. Everyone wants to be able to access, do their stuff, track their investment, play with things, be able to transfer value.

That's accessible. Not everyone wants to trade. Not everyone wants advanced tools, but that's great. In addition to that, everyone wants to chat. Being able to chat with friends, have this and be able to share the money, share NFTs, share stickers and have fun and have this accessible and relevant for Gen Z, for instance, is the step that we're doing to intentionally speak a different language. The avatars, interestingly enough, we have several features, but out of everything that we have, for instance, the avatars are the coolest thing that is super appealing to people, even outside of crypto. Why? Because they're with that specific person. It makes them look really great

or really interesting or really exotic in some particular way. And this is a conversation started for them, their friends, to be able to share the chat ideas and to move forward. Now, on top of this, you can build many other things, but it seems to me like we've just unveiled this, and then we also unveiled the App Store. And I remember having this discussion with our team and looking at the video with Steve Jobs unveiling the App Store. Interestingly enough, in the first iPhone, the App Store did not exist, right? And so they had this separate meeting. It was a half-empty, just small hall, small room where they unveiled this.

It was funny to think about it because it was like probably 2009, 2010, something around those lines. And to think where the App Store is right now and see it when 20, 30 people saw it and looked at it and were thinking, hmm, this is interesting. Now, I wonder who will care about that. And then looking at it right now with everything that it has, with all the millions of applications and the creators and the users and so forth, is an interesting perspective just because it gives you the idea that even if you have today the most important application, it will still take some time for people to discover it, for you to communicate it, to market it, to make sure that it reaches the audience. And I believe we have part of the answer. We already have it.

Now, for the first time, we already have it with the Xportal app. On top of that, I do believe that the experiences, events, and metaverse interaction will be the other half. Now, being able to join either educational experiences, entertainment experiences, and events that you just want to participate in with all your friends will be extremely complimentary to everything that we were discussing and will be the second half that I'm super excited to see unfold during the next few weeks and months. I can't wait to see it happen.

And I hope that it happens as fast as you're projecting here because we're talking about months, not years and decades decades which feels like is a much more sped up timeline than we were originally anticipating i mean the the the key point here is we could not be as an ecosystem in a more better position with this app out of Of course, we have barely one week, not even one full week since the app is out. Excitement is through the roof, both inside the team and outside within the ecosystem. I can tell you that partners and other applications and so forth are looking very, very interestingly at this app because they see that it's one thing to pack everything you know in one app,

and then you see that it doesn't fit. And a completely different thing to see the story there, to see how it unfolds, makes the interaction absolutely accessible. And then the other half is looking at strategic things that we have both within the ecosystem and outside to bring other applications in this app store that we call the hub within our Xportal app. So we're going to have many, many applications from our ecosystem and from outside of the ecosystem with several metaverse

partners that are about to unveil their events alongside our event that is coming during the next months. Well, I hope we still get some Lord of the Rings references, at least quietly down the road, right? That was always one of my favorite parts as a Lord of the Rings enthusiast from my childhood. I know we've discussed it, but I must've read those books 50 times each when I was a kid. I mean, those are awesome books, truly awesome books.

So for anyone who maybe has not downloaded the app, is not participating yet, where can they get started? Where can they find you? xportal.com is the simplest way to start interacting with the app. They'll be able to download it and so forth. There's a great number of features, but I believe that both the AI avatar, the chat function, and the finance, digital finance functionality with the card that is coming, will be able to offer this new type of bridge to the digital world that we've not seen up until this point. Well, we need to continue this conversation sooner than later.

I know that I've been remiss and have let the gaps be too long, but if everything is going to happen as fast as you project, we're going to have to make this a much more regular conversation. I'd love to have that. I do believe the Multiverse X ecosystem will continue to go through a very, very rapid growth process and expansion process, especially during the next weeks and months we have a super packed schedules schedule with partners with integrations with applications

that that are going to come live but this year i do think will make the other years in terms of productivity seem like just been beginning points. Because there's quite a lot that has been adding up, laying out the foundation. And now we can really build on that very strong foundation. Can't wait to see what you build and have you back very soon. Thank you so much. As always, I appreciate the vision and can't wait to see it come to fruition. Scott, it's always a great pleasure to have conversations with you. Thank you very much. Let's go.