The Wolf Of All Streets - The Real Threat To Bitcoin | Michael Moro, Genesis Global Trading

Episode Date: June 5, 2022

How are institutions currently approaching Bitcoin? No one better to answer that question than Michael Moro (@michaelmoro), the CEO of Genesis Trading / Genesis Capital. Genesis is a global leader in institutional asset trading, lending, derivatives, custody and prime brokerage services. Michael joins us today to talk about Bitcoin’s infrastructure, the “Bitcoin to Zero” narrative (and whether or not it still exists), the trader cycle, and why he’s excited for what’s to come. JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER 📩 https://www.getrevue.co/profile/TheWolfDen THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSOR ►► Vauld is a Smart Investing Crypto Platform which allows the user to invest without any stress! With Vauld, you can earn free passive income in crypto. Vauld lets you earn the highest interest rates in the crypto industry - 12.68% on stablecoins and 6.7% on BTC and ETH.. Sign up below and get a 40% kickback on trading fees, 5% commission on interest payouts and 5% commission on loan interest. Vauld’s ‘Buy the Dip’ function automatically purchases specific cryptocurrencies for you when the price dips below a pre-set level. It’s awesome! Sign up here: http://thewolfofallstreets.info/vauld EPISODE LINKS Michael Moro: https://twitter.com/michaelmoro Production & Marketing Team: https://penname.co/ FOLLOW SCOTT MELKER • Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wolfofallstreets • Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io • Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe • Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3FASB2c

The guys that are involved today are obviously early, early, the family offices, some of the early hedge funds that started with two dudes in a garage, right, that are now like multi-billion dollar hedge funds themselves. But like the biggest bucket still hasn't invested in Bitcoin, right, which is crazy to kind of think about. This podcast is sponsored by Vauld. Please stay tuned for more information on this amazing company later in the episode. In the evolution of Bitcoin and crypto, one of the underlying stories that's rarely told is the infrastructure, right? Legacy systems have these massive, massive systems for allowing money to move freely throughout. And that was something that's been lacking until recent years in the crypto space. Well, Michael Morrow, the CEO of Genesis, is one of the first to build that.

He built a prime brokerage, which allows institutional investors big money to really behave in the same way in the crypto space as they do in the legacy markets that they're familiar with. We're going to talk about everything prime brokerage and how institutional money is moving in the crypto space. So listen, it's industry day. The institutionalization of crypto and Bitcoin is the conversation. But all of that requires obviously robust and real infrastructure that we have in legacy markets. Obviously that's what you guys provided, Genesis. And for those of you who don't know,

this is Michael Moore, the CEO of Genesis. So listen, what is a prime brokerage? I think that so many people don't even understand the term and it means something to so many different people. Yeah, So in traditional markets, a prime broker, you can kind of think of them as sometimes they're investment banks and sort of like other institutional brokers who tries to provide like a bundle of services. Right. Right. They try to take things that sometimes are run by separate companies altogether,

like a trading firm versus a custodian versus a lender. A prime broker is the attempt to kind of bundle together all of those services under one roof, mostly for efficiency of capital. The speed at which you're able to deploy capital and move that cash around in traditional markets, you don't need to move securities around. That's not a thing. Right. Like you do in crypto, right? And it is made easier because of the fact that you work with one prime broker. And the biggest value add that most prime brokers are able to do is to lend you money. Yeah. Right. You trade with them and then you use their custody services. So you know exactly what their investment risk profile looks like. And then Prime Broker is able to lend dollars against that position.

As well as it also provides something called cross-margining, which is the ability to look at positions across various venues, aggregate them again, and provide the right level of risk capital. Which is actually something that we're starting to see for the first time on retail crypto exchanges, right? I mean, FTX obviously has cross-margining, and I think that's been a pretty big innovation for your average person, obviously not your institution who can't work with Genesys. Yeah, look, I think a lot of the institutions that ultimately kind of work with us is because we kind of look like them. We talk like them, except we trade crypto. But was that the idea? Is that why you started it? Because

somebody needed to look like them and talk like them? So let's step back. So this is 2012 when we were trying to think and we were running like a bond trading desk. We were literally obviously before Bitcoin and we were like a traditional broker dealer trading bonds. And we, you know, so we were like, okay, let's take a look at Bitcoin. I said, okay, what's Bitcoin? First of all, what is it, right? And why would people care from an institutional perspective? Like, what do you need to buy Bitcoin? And, you know, what we realized that the bonds that we were trading were the old like mortgage-backed security, CDOs, things that blew up in the financial crisis. Things that were worth a dollar is now worth like 20 cents on a dollar.

And so they were illiquid, hard to value, not traded on a traditional exchange. When we looked at Bitcoin, we were like, you know what? Bitcoin shares those same characteristics. It's illiquid. It's esoteric, hard to value off the run. Like it trades just like everything else we're trading. Like, you know what? Let's try to add Bitcoin to our trading desk.

So we're trying to change bonds and Bitcoin, which could not have been more separate, right? But we knew, but we were a broker dealer at the time. We still are today. And we felt that was really, really important because Bitcoin, if you think Bitcoin is still the wild west today, and you can argue that, imagine what this was like 2013, right? And I think to get institutional investors involved and interested in Bitcoin, they needed to trust the companies that they were dealing with.

And we were regulated, SEC, FINRA, the BitLicense came along a few years later, all of that stuff. And I think we were like the warm blanket, right, to kind of make investors feel better. So that was always the goal. Let's try to bridge institutional capital and crypto. Let's try to build the products and services that institutions get in equities and bonds and FX and everything else and try to replicate that somehow into the crypto ecosystem. But obviously do it a lot better than the existing guys are doing it. It seems like that would be actually much more difficult now that Bitcoin is so much on the regulatory radar, right? I think it was an asset that people were dismissive of at that time. So you probably were able to add it with minimal friction. That is 100% correct.

When we amended our broker dealerdealer license to trade Bitcoin. I don't think they knew. They didn't know. And so they said, okay, and we started trading Bitcoin pretty much right away. And then, like, 2014, 15, a lot of companies tried to start broker-dealers or change it. And, like, the SEC, FINRA sat on their applications and didn't approve any of them. I think that's starting to change now. But, yeah, that gave us a huge head start on everybody else because we were early. Yeah. But at that point, you were just

adding another asset. That's right. Right. And at this point, we weren't crypto only. Right. We were trading a whole bunch of other stuff. Another asset to add for your clients and customers. Did you at any point then envision what this would be now? No, no way. No way. So we first started trading Bitcoin and like, you know, and we were OTC, right? So we were literally phone brokerage trying to find buyers and trying to find sellers. The sellers at the time were the early, early Bitcoin guys. So they're the cypherpunks, they're the anarchists, libertarians, the true guys that believe that the banks caused the financial crisis. Arguably, they did, right?

And therefore, they need to build a better financial system, right? And Bitcoin, they believe in Bitcoin from that perspective, as opposed to this can be worth a million dollars one day. Right, of course. Or it's kind of the beliefs and tenets of the core principles of Bitcoin, and that's why they were in it. We were a regulated broker dealer, right? And so in a way, we kind of look like the banks. Yeah. So we had a hard time really breaking into that crypto crowd because as a regulated institution, we had to collect driver's licenses.

Yeah. We had to do background checks for AML, KYC purposes. And they were like, I'm not giving you my driver's license. They still won't. Right, right. And they're like, we're going to take the driver's license and give it right to the IRS or something, right?

Go get them guys, that type of stuff. So we had a hard time, I think, trying to build that trust. At the same time, I had no buyers, right? Because my clients, again, we were bond traders. So we were trying to go after the bond guys to try to buy some Bitcoin. You couldn't find two asset classes that are more desperate right different than those two um and just all they'd hang up the phone on us they wouldn't return our emails like nothing

and so the first few months of trying to figure it out like if somebody would come in buy a million dollars worth of bitcoin and then it might be like, if not days until the seller of a Bitcoin, like a million dollars came in. Like you couldn't match, you know, in a Swiss fashion to do kind of a trade. And so we had to buy a bunch of Bitcoin. We kept that on our balance sheet for working capital purposes. And that's how we did it. And then, but 2013, if you remember, it was great because the price went from like a hundred bucks to like 1200 or 1300 at the end of the year right um and then three months later gox happened and then the price obviously plummeted and that's really when we were like oh this is it we're done like bitcoin is going to zero um this

is kind of that moment where um the whole thing was going to be over but it but when it didn't when the price kind of hovered around 100 200 it $200, it didn't really go below it. That's really when I first really became, oh, wait, this might be something. And this was, you know, this is... You were already years into doing business around this asset. So you thought at that time, like everyone else did, very high percentage chance of things done. Correct. Going to zero.

Did you ever feel that way again? Did 18, 19, the crypto winter at that point make you feel that way or you were a seasoned veteran and no fear? It's funny. So 2014, so as scary as kind of the Gawk situation was, the worst time was the three years or so of the crypto winter that followed, right?

Where it's one thing when the price is going down. Yeah, people get scared and volatility, you know that? The worst is indifference. People stop caring. Bitcoin wasn't in the news. Like no one wanted to talk about it. And here we are trying to get people excited about this new thing. No one cared. And I think apathy was the hardest part of trying to kind of manage through that period of time. And I think it certainly required true belief, right, in the technology and the potential for it to be an asset class. But, like, after that, after the 2017 run obviously comes

and we go to 20K or whatever we did, even in 2018, I did not think Bitcoin was going to go to zero. And, you know, right before the start of the pandemic, we had the Bitcoin black Thursday, whatever it was, the 50% right intraday drawdown. Even at that point of time, I think everyone was like waiting to buy. I was going to say that that was the biggest buying opportunity. And even in the panic, that was the first time I saw people en masse be like, I'm going to puke, but I'm also going to buy this. Correct. And so it was not a fear of zero. It's yeah, it's scary, but at the same time,

I'm looking to buy. So that fear of zero going to zero thing, it's not there in my head. Your fear of zero is gone. Do you think the narrative of zero is also gone? Because that was still the narrative in 18, 19, 20. Even as it started to rise, there was still this loud, sort of, obviously it was a loud minority that said, this asset's going to zero. It's going to zero. The funny part about the whole thing is no one was willing to put their money where their mouth was. Nobody's shorting it to zero. I have a lending debt. You know exactly who's shorting it. And all the people that said Bitcoin will go to zero, they just didn't do anything.

They were like, this isn't for me. I'm not touching it. But they also knew really that the might, the percentage of it going to might, might be 1%, 2%, even to them. Yeah. So they were from a probability perspective, they were willing to take that. You can't put your money there. No way. So now we've climbed almost every hurdle you've seen for the last 10-ish years, but there's still more. Yep. seen for the last 10-ish years, but there's still more. Do you think that there's anything

on your radar that could still, I'm not talking about a go-to-zero event, but that could threaten the sort of core momentum that we've seen in the asset, even though obviously we've seen a dip now. A dip when you're talking about the $40,000 is kind of a dream. That's a welcome gift. Absolutely. Look, I think the biggest risks are going to be around legal regulatory. I fear policymakers just don't understand the asset class. Regulators and lawmakers certainly don't know enough about it. And so I think they'll pass legislation, regulation that doesn't make sense. Right. And that education hurdle of the people that actually make the laws, I think, is of critical importance. And I fear that they'll get it wrong.

Right. So that's one risk. Number two, it's certainly kind of related to Bitcoin. There's a huge, you know, Bitcoin melts polar ice caps and kind of the environmental, you know, pushback against kind of crypto that exists today. Again, I think that's something that can be solved through um i think there's strong funding around you know proof of work systems i spoke at a conference the other day and there were protesters outside the environmentalists saying we love crypto but make it all go to proof of stake you know they're asking me on stage why bitcoin doesn't go to proof of stakes like can't like, can I change it to proof of stake? Yeah, let me call my guy.

Exactly. I know Satoshi. Let me call Bitcoin Incorporated and have a talk. And then third narrative, obviously, we've seen a lot around. Previously, it was China controls Bitcoin. Right, of course. China got out of Bitcoin, shut it down, which I think is probably the biggest strategic mistake. And just like as a side note, before that, we obviously said we need all of this centralization out of China.

And then when it actually happened, people said this is so bearish for Bitcoin. China's banning Bitcoin. But obviously the migration of hash power kind of out of China and kind of crypto businesses out of China. Like I said, I think one, that's a huge mistake from China. But at the same time, that was the China controls Bitcoin narrative. What we've seen in the last month, two months with the Russia-Ukraine conflict and the tragedy of all of it and figuring out who's adopting Bitcoin, what's Russia being used for. My fear is that Russians starting to use Bitcoin is going to become the next environmental. This is why China is bad, because Russia is now starting to use it. Right. So we just shift. We just shift countries. We shift, you know, who the bad guy is.

And typically you see it a lot, right? Russia is always the bad guy in movies. Right. And we've already seen the narrative for circumventing sanctions, which we know is nonsense and all that. But you're saying that that sort of narrative explodes into a much bigger problem. Correct. Now, Bitcoin doesn't care, right? Of course. Bitcoin is a protocol everyone can use.

That's the beauty of it. But I think from a press narrative, what politicians might do to looking for reasons to not like Bitcoin, like I feel like that helps kind of stoke that flame. And all of that is education. But at this point, it's not education, educating the masses. It's calling your senator, your congressperson and educating them on the asset. Do you feel some optimism that they're starting to actually listen, though? Here's the thing. Yes. The hard part is most politicians want like a three minute pitch. That's like their attention span. And that's all it. And crypto, blockchain, Bitcoin is more

complicated than that. Right. And so I think capturing their attention is difficult. However, what we've seen certain the last six to 12 months, we've seen a lot of like crypto super PACs and things like that kind of like forming. And that's real because of the infrastructure. Correct. Right. You know, and I do feel that like that narrative around. Wow. One, recognizing that like the crypto friendly crowd is kind of like whatever, 30, 35 and lower. And no one else kind of owns Bitcoin like above 35, right? I'm 44 and I feel like I'm probably the only one, right? I'm 45.

Exactly. We're the outliers here within our age cohort. But as kind of the older generation moves on, the younger generation comes up, I do think politicians realize that the younger generation has an entirely different feel towards crypto than certainly kind of their older constituents. And I think their policies and what matters to them and their constituencies changes for the better, right, for the crypto. So they have to. Otherwise, their opposition that is more crypto friendly would raise all kinds of donation dollars and kind of, you know, and lose election. Guys, I have a serious question for you. How much interest are you earning in your bank account? Is it 0.00001% or something similar? We all know by now that there's a better way in crypto, but you want to be using the best platform possible. And that is Vauld. I have been using

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You really can't ask for anything more. And if you use the link right down below, you get a 40% kickback on trading fees, 5% commission on interest payouts, and 5% commission on loan interest. Guys, sign up right now at thewolfofallstreets.info slash VAULD. That's V-A-U-L-D. Do it now. Seriously. Yeah. I mean, the optimistic take is they start to listen and they start to care. The pessimistic take is they only care about getting reelected and they'll say whatever it takes. You know what, in a way, but when it gets us where we need it to be, but it's the outcomes we need it for sure. My hope, though, is that this becomes a bipartisan effort. I don't understand why Bitcoin is liberal or conservative. You know, I don't get it Bitcoin is liberal or conservative. I don't get it.

And we've started to see some of that, right? We've started to see some folks on both sides of the aisle kind of come to support Bitcoin. But it is very weird right now. I feel like today, conservatives are more pro-Bitcoin than liberals. I wonder how much of that is just what we see in the media. because there are people on both sides of the aisle who are pro-privacy and pro-freedom and pro-technology, right? We just have these really loud voices on the polls. You're absolutely right. And you think that things like financial inclusion, right? Banking, young bank, all of that stuff will play right into kind of the Democrats, but it has not played out so far.

No, it hasn't at all. So what are you seeing actually as the institutional trade right now? Obviously, we've seen like we've had these sort of phases, right? The GBTC premium, cash and carry, whatever it is. How are institutions generally approaching the asset now to safely invest? Because we're not really seeing as many companies put it on the balance sheet as we thought would be a year ago. We actually did over $10 billion of transactions with corporations last year. So it's not just kind of the micro strategies and the Teslas, but you don't hear about it because one, most of them are overseas, so non-US companies, and many of them are private companies.

And so they don't have to disclose stuff. There's no 8K things to be companies. And so they don't have to disclose stuff. There's no 8K things to be filed. And so you don't hear about companies in Latin America that bought Bitcoin for their treasury or companies in Southeast Asia that did. They did it with us. We'll continue to work with them. And so I do think that's still, it's become a smaller story for sure because they're not big household names doing it. But I think the narrative's still there on the institutional side look what every bank right now is trying to figure out is what

is my bitcoin or crypto strategy what is my plan um and you know i and many of them again they're not going to touch spot crypto they don't want to worry about custody or touching bitcoin or manipulation or right what if three holders ago was a bad dude, right? And now I'm in the chain on the provenance of those dirty. So we need this body TF, right? So they need synthetic cash settled derivatives of Bitcoin. And most of the time, though, it's interesting. It's the private banks. It's the private banks that are trying to figure out what structured product can I create with Bitcoin so I can sell that to my private wealth management clients. I mean, we just saw Silvergate give MicroStrategy a $205 million loan to buy more Bitcoin. Is it right?

I mean, that would, a year ago, two years ago, that would have been a very surprising loan. The lending thing didn't exist until, whatever, four years ago when we started it, right? And so I do think that evolution around the lending market, I think, is tremendous because, in my mind, Bitcoin is the best collateral in the world. Of course. It is. Of course. They can hold it. They can trade it.

You can trade millions and billions of it on Christmas morning. Right. Markets are shut 24-7. No, it doesn't matter. You can do this, right? And you have a mark to market on it every second of the day, the value of something. So I think all of these things are evolutions of the product.

So I do think we'll continue to see banks create trade options and futures and other cash settled things. I think they'll do structured products, but they are nowhere near like trading the spot market of Bitcoin. That's interesting. Arthur Hayes just wrote a pretty incredible medium. I don't know if you saw, I think he called it five ducking digits or something, talking about the future price of Ethereum being 10,000. But it was an interesting approach, right? He said sort of that it could be treated like a commodity linked bond.

Once it goes to proof of stake, there's a 10% to 15% yield. It's deflationary. And he talked about the carry trade there, right? You guys would be a prime place for an institution that wants to make a trade like that to come, right? Because you can lend them the USD at a lower rate. Absolutely. We've done it with Bitcoin and the CME futures product. And so anywhere, look, market neutral trades that actually pay you decent return, I mean, the institutions are going to be all over it. If they don't have to make a directional bet on the price of Bitcoin, yet they can arbitrage the inefficiencies of markets like that. I mean, we had in the bull run in last year, at one point, our interest rate to borrow cash from Genesis was like in the mid-teens.

You're like, oh my God, why is anyone paying you 15, 16, even 20% to borrow dollars? But that's because they were able to take that dollar and put on that big cash and carry trade and earn 30%. It's free money. Right? Yeah, you might pay out 15, but you're net 15, and you've done absolutely nothing as far as taking a directional bet. They'll do that all day long. And as more instruments come online like that for Ethereum and the CME creates more futures products and things like that, that arbitrage opportunity is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger,

and that's more money flowing into the institutions. Right, and we're talking about institutions, but it's financial. We're talking about hedge funds. Yes. Right. When do we get the big wall, the endowments, the pension funds? Are they just waiting for a vehicle that their risk managers who have been looking at this for four years are comfortable with? I think they need an ETF. Spot ETF.

I do think they need a spot ETF in the space. And look, their play so far has been the VC route, right? Let's cut checks into a bunch of different startups and see how it goes. Or it's like a fund to funds approach where they're just like spraying a bunch of money into a bunch of different places and see how it goes. Most of them have not said, hey, I won't put Bitcoin on my balance sheet. Right. Right. And that's all we were talking about 14 months ago. I think. Right. As 2021 came in, the narrative of crypto was microstrategy, Tesla. Every company is going to add this, of course. Doesn't make much sense for them when you look at the way they actually report their taxes. But then the story, as you just sort of touched on, ended up being VC and Web3. I mean, do you think that's what we still see continue?

It seems like anyone and their mother can raise a billion dollar fund. I think once at some point, the valuations in the private market, which I think are overvalued, certainly relative to the public market, you'll get to a point where you rather own a dollar of Bitcoin outright than to take a dollar of that and invest in some crypto startup. Some relative valuation that has to make sense where owning the underlying makes more sense to you from a valuation and returns perspective than putting a dollar and owning a dollar of stock in some startup.

But if I own a dollar of stock in a startup, I know how to custody that. I don't have to worry about securities and hacks and thefts and things like that. And obviously, if you own a dollar of outright Bitcoin, that's the things you have to think about. Yeah. So do you think this is just part of sort of the cycle? I do. It's funny because you've been here for 10 years of cycles and there was always the trader cycle of, you know, Bitcoin goes sideways, money goes into altcoins, sort of the washing machine between Bitcoin and altcoins. But that's kind of a grander description of the same thing now with institutions. I think you'll get to a point where a lot of funds will have like a 60-40 or 70-30 allocation

between stocks and tokens, right? But you just haven't seen that token part, certainly kind of at the endowment stage today. You were a bond guy at 60-40, Dad. I was. You know what? I'd actually, I'd want more liquidity, right? And so I'd probably head more towards the token route than the equity route, frankly. But at the same time, the crypto market, you know, even running a company like Genesis,

like I'm so heads down on the business that like there are too many things happening for me to keep up with. No human being can keep up with the 24-7 market. It's a blessing and a curse. New protocol, new coin, whatever, new layer one. You're like, oh my God, how do I keep track with all this stuff? It's impossible. So imagine what it's like for the institutional investor that is doing crypto part-time. There is no such thing as doing crypto part-time and being good at it.

And there's no such thing as just being one guy doing crypto by yourself. No, there's no way. You cannot generate alpha that way. Wow. It's really just so interesting. But doesn't that just make you excited for what's to come? 100%. Because we've gotten to this point, to your point, without the true, true old school

institutions still getting involved, right? The guys that are involved today are obviously early, early for the family offices, some of the early hedge funds that started with two dudes in a garage, right? That are now like multi-billion dollar hedge funds themselves. But like the biggest bucket still hasn't invested in Bitcoin, right? Which is crazy to kind of think about. So when people say, what are institutions coming to crypto? It bothers me in a way because I feel like we are now the institutions. We've become institutions like on our own through kind of organic growth. And that this asset class has become institutional without their involvement, right? How do you get to $2 trillion and argue that that's not an institutional asset class has become institutional without their involvement.

How do you get to $2 trillion and argue that that's not an institutional asset class? You can't. And so, all right, now, and we got here without you. But if you want to get in, where can you take us? From $2 trillion to whatever, $10 trillion, $100 trillion, whatever the number is. And I do think that we will need to work with the biggest institutions to actually make that happen. Yeah. So we talked about the big risks that still exist, which I think are way less than they were.

Do you have any wild predictions or things that you're most excited about that could happen? It doesn't have to be this month. Yeah. You know, I was chatting on the stage earlier at the conference about the Bitcoin story and how the Bitcoin story is still being written. It obviously started over a decade ago and we're in this state. And I don't know what the last chapter of the Bitcoin story looks like. But if you take the hyper-Bitcoinization of the world

to its logical conclusion, it is there's no more fiat currencies. Every country just has Bitcoin. That's adopted as Bitcoin, a single currency for Earth. And that's kind of the end state for Bitcoinizing the world. A couple of steps before then is central banks adopting Bitcoin as a reserve currency. Sure. Right?

And then where we are right now, and you can argue as to whether Wall Street's and structured products and rehypothecation is good or bad for Bitcoin. But my view is you don't get to central banks using Bitcoin as a reserve currency without going through all of this. Right. This is a natural progression. It's boss. It's like a game of Mario. You have to do it, right?

Beat each Bowser on the way. Exactly. You have to do it. And so, you know, I do think that it's part of it. Now, the question is going to be around what does the future look like? I always thought that to get to that end state, whatever it is, is going to take like centuries. When I came into it, that's what I thought. Right. And then like things just keep happening around the world that shortens that time cycle. Right. Crazy. Right. Like whether it's geopolitics or macroeconomic or central bank decisions million

dollars donated in ukraine overnight yeah you're like you're like wow the the and bitcoin has done nothing all bitcoin has to do is just work just has to run produce blocks confirm transactions and then like the bitcoin story kind of like tells itself as like the world continues to like blow up around it. Right. And so my horizon for whatever the end state of Bitcoin has gone away from centuries. And now I'm in the decades time frame for what that story plays out next year. If I'm doing this, I'm going to just say we do this next year. You'd be like June. Give it a couple of months. Right.

I feel I feel like that time cycle has gotten much, much shorter. I'm just afraid that when it happens, we'd be like, June. Give it a couple months, right? I feel like that time cycle has gotten much, much shorter. I'm just afraid that when it happens, we'll be like Mad Max. Yes. All the things will have blown up. The world is on fire. But, you know, but I feel like

Bitcoin gives people a way out. If Bitcoin didn't exist and this stuff was still happening, we'd be in a much worse position. Like 2008. Exactly. So Shiba Inu is not going to be the global reserve currency, I guess. I'm going to short that one.

Okay. I think you've taken the right side of that. So where can everybody follow you and keep up with you after this conversation? Yeah. So it's GenesisTrading.com. That's the website. And you can find me, Michael Morrow. I'm on Twitter.

Just one word. I don't put much stuff out there, but I think my marketing team wants me to start changing that. You know, the guys who are actually building and working 24-7 probably don't have time to tweet. That's my excuse. I think it's justified. Well, thank you so much.

I really appreciate it. Appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you haven't already left a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please do that now. Spotify just added ratings, so please go ahead and click that five star. I'll see you guys next time.