The Wolf Of All Streets - The SEC Has Cost Crypto Hundreds Of Millions | Crypto Town Hall

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

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Good morning, everyone. Happy day after Halloween. October is over. Now we're going to see what kind of meme name we can give to November, especially if price ends up going up. It was an interesting month, certainly for Bitcoin. We had the promise of October. And then, of course, for the first couple of weeks, it dropped significantly, leading many to wonder if it would happen again and as it has in previous cycles and previous octobers the back half of the month was extremely bullish and bitcoin ended up breaking out above 70 000 making a new higher high in uh the market structure luckily we have peter brandt here Peter, looking pretty good, right? Yeah, I mean, it's looking great. I just, by the way, posted a Bitcoin chart. I think I linked it to you or mentioned your Bitcoin or your Twitter handle if people want to look at it. But yeah, I mean, we've got something significant, you know, for months, I've talked

about the fact that we've been in a sequence of lower lows, of lower highs, and that was all resolved on October 28th, 29th, where finally two things happened. The first thing is that we finally violated the sequence since March of lower highs by making a higher high. We took out, for me, which was the breakout, the July 28th high was finally exceeded. Now, the problem with chart patterns, and basically chart pattern is just the geometric definition of a period of congestion. That's what we've had in Bitcoin since March. We've had a congestion. We've had the congestion. Unfortunately, that the upper boundary was a diagonal.

And oftentimes when we get congestion areas where a boundary is horizontal, it becomes clean. And we break that out and then we run. And oftentimes when we break out of a diagonal or a slanted boundary, we morph into something else. But in this case, I think it was a real breakout. We broke out on the 28th, 29th. And really what we've seen in bull markets, we often see two to three day corrections. That's all we get in bull markets is brief corrections that last two or three days. And that's exactly what we had. So I think today's low is significant. I mean, we take a look at today's lows, especially take a look at the October 23rd low.

We should be in a bull market unless we break those two lows. I just count this as being in a bull market. If we take out those lows, especially the low of October 23rd, at that point, I kind of go back to the drawing board. But until then, my target now is $97,000. That's where I think we go in this leg. We're in a bull market leg. Perfect retest of that upper diagonal line. If someone wants to draw in those highs coming up the March highs, we went down, we broke out, we went back, we kissed that line. We retested the October 21st high. I think we should close strong today in fact we may make a new all-time high today or perhaps over the weekend but as far as i'm concerned you know i'm a hundred percent in my bitcoin portfolio which had broken into five different buckets from a hundred percent in on the long side of bitcoin i think bitcoin's's a leader. I've always said crypto is Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is crypto. Forget all the other junk. They're all pretenders. And so we'll continue to see Bitcoin assume a bigger share of the total market than this is a Bitcoin rally. Sure, some of the other things will participate. Ether still is in the bar market as far as I am concerned.

We could see Sol come in. If Sol can make a new all-time high, that's going to be a very tempting place to reallocate some of my crypto money because that would be a pretty strong bull signal in Sol. But ultimately, I'm a Bitcoin bull. And to me, it's green light, green light, green light, green light. Yeah. And I think the move over the last days was just a classic flush

out. As you can see in the title, 500 million in open interest was wiped out. We obviously got up to extreme greed. We always get this when everybody gets long. You get that flush. Price drops below support. So it got down, I think, into the mid-68,000s. People panicking say it's a fake out. And now you look at the current candle, which obviously the day is not closed. But yesterday ended at support at 70,000. Today opened at support at 70,000. And now we have this big wick down and a nice big green body.

So I tend to agree with you that things are just looking really, really good. This was just a flush out. So, uh, really positive there. Uh, go ahead,

Peter. Yeah. I mean, I think this is just a liquidity thing. You look at the stock market, you know, we're perhaps a couple of days away from NASDAQ making a new all time high.

So, um, the thing I really liked is talking about. And of course, I'm a Bitcoin bull, but getting off of Bitcoin, I just think the sleeper here is the Russell. You know, no matter who wins the election, I think there could be good news for small caps and that it's time for the small caps finally to participate in the advanced inequities because they haven't. Small caps have been stuck in a mud. But I think whether it's a Trump administration or, I would say, unfortunately, harris administration i i think we could uh in either case i i think we could build a case for small caps and the chart of the russell potentially for me could be extremely constructive uh before we move on to other topics florian what

are your thoughts here obviously you're a market analyst and you're taking a look at this on this Bitcoin move. Yeah, I like it. I mean, I think it's time to be really bullish. For me, the signal was on the 10th of October when Bitcoin quickly dropped last time below 60k and then immediately came back up. So that was probably the last bear trap. And here we are already, yeah, $12,000 higher from that low. And I think, yeah, it doesn't take much to break through new all-time highs. And that would also mean the breakout out of this big three-year cup and handle pattern.

I have a target of 130 000 for bitcoin over the next yeah let's say five six months maybe maybe later next year but i think that's the target and psychologically speaking i think now the magnet of the round number 100k is is on so um yeah i'm i'm bullish i think it's time to be really bullish. Love that perspective. Uh, love it. And I agree. It's exactly, uh, in line with where we should be in the cycle. Uh, the chart looks great. It's, uh, hard to argue with, I think the general bullishness right now. Um, so moving on, I think from market analysis, I think it's clear that above 70 K things looking, um, exceptionally's clear that above 70K, things looking exceptionally good.

We have the entire squad here from the Blockchain Association and from HarrisX Data. Dan, you sent me a really interesting tweet, and I've pinned it up above from Blockchain Association. Hundreds of millions of dollars. That's what chair Gensler's anti-innovation crypto crusade costs. Just a small slice of the industry, along with an immeasurable loss of jobs, innovation and U.S. tech investment. You guys had this long paper collectively entitled Regulation by Enforcement.

So I want to bring you guys on to discuss that. So maybe you can give us the quick preface. Yeah, thank you so much, Scott. Great to be with you again. Always a pleasure to be back on the Crypto Town Hall. We've got a few of my co-workers and colleagues with me today. Of course, you know Ron. I know he's a regular. Marissa, our head of legal, she's been on a few times. I think she's going to really give you a nice rundown of this campaign we've launched. And we also have our friends at HarrisX. We've got the CEO of HarrisX on the line here, and then Alex bringing him up on stage. Yeah, this was

a big campaign that the Blockchain Association kicked off yesterday. The stats are up in that pinned tweet thread. And I think your listeners are going to be interested to see what we found through this polling and what the days look like ahead. Marissa, do you want to introduce yourself and say a few words? Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Dan, and thanks for having me on. We felt like it was just really important to put some numbers to the SEC strategy here since we have a lot of members,

and our members all across the board are suffering from the strategy. We've seen a lot of people in the industry go offshore and just really be afraid to innovate in this space in the U.S., which is very unfortunate. So we felt like it was important, especially ahead of this election, to just put some real data behind it. And Alex at HarrisX can definitely go through some of the numbers. He's like the data expert. two-thirds of voters agree that the SEC should wait for clearer guidelines from Congress rather than pursue their own regulation by enforcement strategy. And it was pretty clear that voters think they've just taken the wrong approach toward crypto and that doing some sort of rulemaking or

waiting for Congress to act would be a better approach than going about policymaking through bringing enforcement actions. So, you know, crypto is not a partisan issue. There's champions on both sides of the aisle. So this wasn't meant to sway, you know, voters or certain candidates on one side or the other. but it really just indicates, like, how important this issue is and that politicians and policymakers should take it seriously when they're thinking about their strategy with regard to elections. And also that the SEC should rethink their strategy. I think that's, like, number one. So, Alex, do you want to add some color to the data and how everything was collected? Yeah, absolutely. Mario, Scott, nice seeing you guys again. Thank you. If we can get our handle

up because my partner, it's perfect. My partner, Driton is on and if he can speak as well. But so a little bit about Heresex, we do political polling in the US. We're close to both sides. We do globally. If you look up HarrisX in some caucus countries, you'll see Reuters wrote an article about us yesterday. The point is that we're very deep with crypto. I've been in and out of the industry for the last eight, nine years. Some good news is that regardless of who wins,

the crypto voter is actually pretty evenly split between Democrats and Republicans. And there's not really a big single issue voter cohort within crypto. Most people are passive holders. So there's hope that if Kamala wins, for example, that I don't think it's doom and gloom, even though myself and the industry wants Trump to win, obviously, from the US. When Kamala wins, the US cohort angles towards being multicultural, younger, male, higher income, all it's the perfect cohort for her to go after. And so she's going to obviously listen to our voice. But we did find with the Blockchain Association that, as Melissa talked about, that two-to-one, people want Congress to write laws.

And a very encouraging sign for what's been happening in the U.S., Stand with Crypto, Airshake, Blockchain Association, other policy groups, us from a polling perspective, we're close to electing the most pro crypto Congress in both sides of the house, uh, both sides of the, of the aisle and both chambers, the house and the Senate than we have ever had. Uh, and so while Trump is all, you know, gung ho and crypto Kamala is very much an establishment player and she's going to listen to the establishment.

And our establishment going into this cycle, and we hope to carry this momentum into 2026, is going to be a very pro-crypto Congress, or at least the most pro-crypto Congress that we've seen. But I think the voters are clear. Hopefully, any administration that comes in, again, I'm angling here on Kamala because we know what Trump is going to do. But if Kamala wins, she needs to get rid of Gary Gensler. It's quite evident. There are many, even Democratic representatives like Richie Torres is a big one from New York who's going out and is quite pissed that a regulator is rogue and is preempting congress and writing the laws and

is doing this regulation by enforcement so uh this is what we're seeing happy to dive into more numbers but i wanted to do a pause here the digital chamber also i spoke with perry and obviously where you used to be there as well um did a similar report. And I think they said that 16% they viewed of voters in the United States at a very like it took crypto, not necessarily as a single issue, but that it was very impactful in who they were going to vote for and how they were going to decide. So you guys aren't the only ones actually that did a poll here that kind of had the same outcome. Scott, I'll tell you something, something interesting. So just some back with envelope numbers for everyone on the call, call it 20%

of US voters are crypto holders. So it's a pretty big cohort. But if we pull outside of it, and just look at all voters, nearly 50%, and we just did this with consensus, nearly 50 50% want the US to enact a pro crypto policies so holders and not holders uh we actually see it higher than 16. so uh we're pretty encouraged by that you're a drag paris x go ahead hey everyone this is uh drita Nesha. I'm the CEO of HarrisX. And obviously, we looked at this issue from a few different angles and perspectives. The first thing is, as we've all been discussing here, is that the crypto voter is mature and is actually engaged.

And that is very good news for the industry. In an election that is going to be a squeaker, with almost all polls showing essentially a statistical tie, the incremental issue position that the candidates take matters. And as Alex mentioned, the crypto voter tends to be more similar to the base of a Democratic voter than the Republican voter, but they're actually evenly divided and leaning towards Republican candidates right now precisely because of the clear positions that they have taken on a whole array of policy issues. And so that's important because there is a form of mobilization or galvanization here amongst the crypto base, the crypto voter, that could make a difference. And I'll put it very simply, the difference in all of the last battleground states in the last election is smaller than the number of crypto voters that exist in those states in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and so forth. And as Alex mentioned, we've done

this research together with the blockchain association who has commissioned a significant volume of research in this space a lot more than any of its uh peers um uh in in washington dc and beyond and we have a pretty forensic view of the fact that the crypto voter will matter and needs to be courted. Final point that I'll make is that we partner with an economic analysis firm, DevTech Systems. They work for the U.S. government across many different institutions to really do a teardown on SEC enforcement actions and also the cost of those SEC enforcement actions, and also the cost of those SEC enforcement actions.

And what we found very clearly is that since Gensler became the SEC chair, the number of enforcement actions, total enforcement actions, maybe grew by 14%. However, the number of enforcement actions focused on the crypto industry grew by close to 200%, and maybe a little bit more. So the data doesn't lie. It doesn't have an opinion of its own. It is what it is. And there's a clear singling out of this industry by the SEC that, again, doesn't sit well not

only with industry leaders like yourselves and opinion makers like yourselves in this call, but with the rank and file. People are not against guardrails, and they're not against regulation. What they are against is the stifling of innovation, the killing of the strength of the industry, the killing of the jobs that the industry would create through targeted action that is really undue action, right, or above and beyond type action. And that's ultimately what our research concludes. Right. What are the conclusions as to how much we actually or our industry or crypto single

issue voters or just generally could impact the election now that we're, you know, four days away? Will we actually have an impact? Yeah, I mean, again, the election is a statistical tie, right? And the improbable could happen. You could actually have Trump win the popular vote but lose the battleground state, which no one is talking about. And so the next incremental position, as I mentioned, matters, right? Crypto voters are economy voters. They're tabletop issues voters.

And frankly, this investment for many of them in the rank and file is a hedge. It's a hedge against inflation. It's a hedge against, you know, rising taxes in the future. All of the economic mismanagement that has happened over the last several administrations. And this goes all the way back to 2000 and beyond. So for them, this is an important issue. And as they look at the candidates, they're going to make a concerted decision across a whole array of things. The data is clear. If you isolate one issue and you say, based on this single issue, if a candidate has a clear position and a

favorable position or not, would you vote for that candidate and even cross party ranks, go from Democrat to Republican or vice versa, Republican to Democrat, you have essentially 40% of voters that say yes, right? If I look at it in isolation or if it's the next incremental issue that I need to consider, then I would be willing to consider it. And we did a very, very large study, again, with ConsenSys and the Blockchain Association on this, which will maybe drop on this town hall or circulate somehow on our handle that people should take a very close look at.

And, you know, even beyond the presidential election, there's also members of Congress and, you know, senators that are being elected too. So I do think that the crypto lobby, I guess you could call it, but there's a lot of money flowing into politics on that front as well. And there's like that. I mean, the presidential election is obviously very important, but nothing's going to get done unless congress is on board with crypto so those elections like arguably could could make or break the industry one quick plug guys if you live in the u.s we have four days to go i know we have a lot of people listening somewhere in somewhere out

you have to go vote you absolutely have to go vote if it's waiting in line and standing in line it's it's like especially for our industry it's our civic duty and call friends get people to go vote. If it's waiting in line and standing in line, it's like, especially for our industry, it's our civic duty and call friends, get people to go out. The only downside with a younger cohort is that young people tend to not to vote. We're very vocal. People are vocal, but they don't go vote.

So this is imperative. This is a critical, critical election, frankly, for the world and really for the industry. So, Scott, to your question, go vote. Everyone, whoever I can implore in this town hall, go vote. Please, please, please vote. Ron, so much dread. Well, I was just going to say that 10% of voters are still undecided, believe it or not, and might still change their mind.

These are the conventional swing voters. They're predominantly issue voters. And actually, when you look at the cohort of crypto voters, those voters over-index on being part of this group, this swing voter, this 10% that still hasn't made up their mind. So not only go and vote and encourage others to do so, but also share your perspective on the election and what it means for the industry with others. Because again, this could be that incremental decision that makes the difference for these kinds of voters. And we're tracking this very closely at elections.harrisx.com. You can

see all of this data, including a teardown on the crypto voter itself. Yeah, Ron, so much of this aligns with exactly what you were saying yesterday, especially when drilling into sort of some of these elections that can matter just as much as the presidential election, right? A hundred percent. And I'll say too, at least in the initial reactions we've been getting from Capitol Hill, just like on the numbers itself, the enforcement number has been the one that's been sticking out the most

in my conversations. And again, the 425 or whatever million number we have currently is within just the blockchain association membership. And we have been getting a lot of inbound since then. So I'm sure that number is going to be much higher. And then have been getting a lot of inbound since then, so I'm sure that number is going to be much higher. And then you also have to factor in, when the industry is spending

gobs of money here to defend itself in court, let's not also forget they're spending gobs of money on the political action committee side, through donations on that side. They're hiring folks like myself, like lobbyists, to interact. So there's a whole, the amount of money that has to be spent to get the United States to be recognized.

This technology is here to stay and we need to be pro-crypto as well as advance good legislation. It has taken a significant amount of resources that's taken away from devs and companies building, which has been really sad. But having that number

and that talking point, I'm already seeing the effect right now on Capitol Hill. So I'm excited to see kind of how this moves forward. But it's going to be pretty hectic for quite some time. And this talking point is going to be sticking around in circles, too. Does anyone on stage have a feeling for the likelihood, or let's reframe that, what happens to gary gensler if harris wins what can we expect there i think he'd probably stay unfortunately but part of me doesn't want to put that out there

in the universe so maybe forget that i said that The law of attraction brings us more Gary Gensler. Not what we're looking for. Look, there is, and maybe Ron, you can elaborate on this, because Ron is doing a fantastic job here. So there's Gensler. Gensler is Warren's person, right? And so the way we need to put Warren on an island, John is running against him, John Deaton. Obviously, the chances of him

winning are fairly low, even though he's been doing an admirable job and I think punching way above his weight. The main race is Bernie Moreno in Ohio. If Bernie wins and takes out Sherrod Brown, that is a big win for the industry

and further isolates Warren. Again, and again, maybe Ron you can talk about your lobbying strategy, but it's isolating Warren and chipping away at her, her whole coalition and her narrative. Because once she's alone and all of our friends are chipped away and there's more pro crypto folks in Congress, I mean, she can hold things back, but she becomes more and more isolated

and she's exposed for what she is. And she may just give up if it's politically unpopular. Go ahead, Jeff. The one thing here I'll add on that front too is when it comes to at least a crypto lobbying strategy, we've seen a really, I have to give a lot of credit to my colleagues at BA, but also Stan with Crypto, Coinbase, and several others. And typically, when I was a Hill staffer, the SEC is, of course, trying to watch out for the best interests of the public.

I also think, for what it's worth, that some of these cases that we're seeing against the SEC, they could make it to the Supreme Court within the next four years, probably sooner than four years. But that would be obviously huge because we do think that the Supreme Court is on our side in terms of, A, whether the SEC's regulation by enforcement strategy is even legal. And B, I think the industry's read of the Howey test is legally accurate versus the SEC's. Ron, continue. I'm not sure if Marissa could actually hear you. Sometimes guests can't hear each other. So please continue.

No, my apologies. Yeah, it seems I have injured my end too a little bit. I might have to back out for a second. Sorry, long story short, basically, Gensler, he likely will be staying as chair. You know, again, the push that we've been doing behind the scenes, but also folks like yourself is showing, hey, he's harming real people. You know, when I was a Hill staffer, Bernie Madoff victims were coming to Capitol Hill, and that was a way to try to get more regulation in that more space. But we kind of flip the script in that case where we're seeing a lot of the grassroots folks go to Capitol Hill and be like, hey, look, we are everyday Americans in your state and we're getting screwed over here because of the actions of the SEC, who is supposed to be protecting us. And I think that's where the narrative has been really shifting really in our favor there. And

again, a lot of that happens on the ground, D.C. and through a lot of efforts. So we'll see again how it all plays out here. But that's where you see the Democrats really pick off a lot. And they're saying, hey, usually these are the people coming to my office who are saying, you know, I was defrauded and I need this help. They're saying, no, hey, the person that's supposed to be helping me is not helping. They're actually hurting my livelihood, my job, my career, so on and so forth.

So that's been really interesting to watch. Peter? Yeah, I just want to always remind people about Gary Gensler. He was the getaway driver in the robbery at MF Global. He's a crooked man. He's not in favor of crypto people. He is the puppet for a small group of elites. He ought to be in jail instead of in the office.

He is. That's my opinion. End of comment. Go ahead, Dave. Go ahead, Dave. Sorry. Can you hear me now? We can.

Okay, great. Look, I mean, without regard to the personality and the individual, the simple fact is Harris has said literally zero about either replacing Gensler or who she would nominate. Not a short list, nothing. The only Democrats that are on the commission, the two non-Gensler Democrats that are on the SEC both voted against the Bitcoin ETF, one of them famously, you know, with a sophomoric, you know, completely absurdly counterfactual dissent. And she's up for renomination and couldn't make it through this Senate. And now the question is, will Harris renominate her?

Crypto voters who can't, or lobbyists who can't force Harris to make a declaration in that, that to me is a loss. And it makes it, I understand that if I'm in the Blockchain Association, my job is to be able to work with the congressional grassroots. That's true. And I agree with that. And it makes perfect sense. But to say or indicate that there are crypto related voters who do not understand the fact that you really are risking four more years of exactly the same thing, because people is people is policy, personnel is policy, I don't know, whatever the expression is, if Gensler stays till the end of his term, or even if he doesn't, if Crenshaw is re nominated,

and someone who is following that agenda is put in, even if less visibly horrible, you get the same thing. Your cost estimate of the cost to the economy is an interesting number. It is wildly underestimating it. And I think you know that. I mean, I'll tell you my company. My company wouldn't show up in any of those surveys because because we're still an ongoing company, we're still profitable, you know, the company that, you know, that I co founded coin routes, but we've moved already a third of our jobs offshore. And we're not hiring anymore in the United States, unless there's either a Trump win,

or Harris decides to put an independent, not a Democrat, an independent in charge of the SEC, which is a promise she could make. And frankly, her mentor, Mr. Obama had an independent at the head of the SEC. The fact that she has said nothing means that if you're a crypto voter, and you vote for her, you have to have your head examined. Now there that said, in the House races, absolutely, Richie Torres, Ro Khanna, there are many Democrats who I have enormous respect for and understand that is true. And then there are some races that are extremely clear. Probably the clearest one is in Pennsylvania. important swing issue that Dave McCormick, who is by all accounts a pretty moderate Republican and doesn't get tarred with a lot of the Trump brush, is actually pulling behind Trump in Pennsylvania when he is supportive of innovation and Bob Casey is literally part of the Biden cohort that has been strangling it. To me, that seems to be where a lot of focus should be,

because you're right, the Senate and the House matters. Maxine Waters running House Financial Services means stable coins only run by banks and enormous uphill battles to get anything done. I mean, she couldn't even vote for it, even with the SAB 21, which is completely absurd. So to me, there's a lot of politics going on here. Yes, I understand that. But let's call it what it is. The SEC either goes independent under Harris, or you have to understand that you're voting for four more years of the same thing. Can I jump in? I would love for Ron and Driton to also obviously speak in, but maybe I can offer a couple of points as I was on both sides,

on the polling side before now and also on the lobbying side. Your frustration is palpable and I think we all share it. And so it has been tough in the U.S. Things are thawing. I think when, at least I think about the political side, there are battles, there are skirmishes, there are battles

and then there's the war. Ultimately the war is through Congress. The focus, the BA when I was at the chamber, what we did was a congressional focus. Again, Iran and the team speak about that. As far as crypto voters,

unfortunately, we sit on crypto Twitter and I'll just be, I'll say the truth here, right? I don't want to, I can give everyone hopium, but I'd rather give people the truth. We'd like to be very accurate with our data. There's not a big cohort of a single issue voter. Most people that hold crypto in the US have bought it. It's kind of sitting in a Coinbase wallet

and they care about it, but they care more about abortion or they care more about whatever, you know, the economy, or they care more about some of the other day-to-day pressing issues for them. Where it overlaps matters. We don't have a large single issue vote.

Somebody came out, I think Paradigm came out with a study yesterday or a few days ago that said it was 5%. I think that's wildly high. 5% of the US voter population is single issue crypto. I would put it somewhere in two to three at best um and just it's just not coming through our data that there's a big single issue cohort and so when you're saying why are some people you know pulling ahead or behind trump or in general pennsylvania or otherwise it's because all of the other issues matter to them as well right and so i hear you on getting a more independent chair of the SEC. I would love that to happen. I would love a lobbyist to be in platitudes and be vague so that she

can squeak by and win the election and then let the establishment behind her set her policies. The question is, who are the people that are going to be setting the policies behind her? That's where I think all the action is. She herself, it'll be very, very hard for her to take a position on anything other than abortion because it plays well for her. She's obviously going after women. It's almost becoming a man versus woman election in some ways. So she just doesn't take positions on things. That is the strategy of her to win.

And she's not going to take a position up through the election on anything else. In fact, if you look at the rhetoric, the rhetoric has switched to Trump is a fascist, Trump is, you know, they're Nazis and we can't afford four years of this. Right now, in the last four or five days, it's all about getting your base to go out. We stopped going up just the swing voters. It's all about base turnout. I wonder if Dritana Rana, Dan, if you guys have anything else. Go ahead, Dan. Yeah, I just want to comment. Just on the industry side, there's no question that that number, that 400 million plus numbers larger is probably double that, if not more. But again, as Ron then pointed out,

the sample size, this was the feedback that we received from our member organizations, just shy of about 100 different companies. And the industry is facing a lot right now. So the industry needs to work collaboratively here and get that feedback to us. We set up that website, Regulation by Enforcement. There's a contact section.

Submit your information if you were also affected by the SEC. We need to come together as an industry, not just for this election, but for the governing process in the years ahead. And one of the best ways to do that is through working through associations. And so we can know what the industry is feeling. Yeah, I would say, sorry, this is Drithan at HarrisX. I mean, look, I would say to the comments that my colleague Alex made, yes, but. And what I mean by that is that in the last election in a state like Pennsylvania,

as Dave mentioned, Biden won by 80,555 votes. Today in that state, there are 971,000 or over 971,000 crypto owners. And these owners, these voters, right, 90% of them say that they're planning to vote, they need to be spoken to and mobilized in an effective way. It doesn't mean that they're only voting on crypto, but it means that if you link the crypto issue to economic issues, to the inflation issue, to the basket of issues that are defining the reasons why voters go out and vote. And in this case, it will be very heavily an economy-driven election based on all polls, right? There's no daylight between all the different polls that economy, inflation, jobs are the top issues in the country. If you create that effective issue link with crypto,

then yes, you could actually turn out enough voters and make the difference for a candidate like McCormick or even at the presidential level. So again, if the election wasn't so tight, you could say that, you know, this group will need a lot of mobilization and a lot of work, better to focus on downrange races. But in this specific election, any vote, especially in these pivotal states, matters. And with four days still to go, it's not just about turning out voters, but it is also about those swing voters. And I saw in the comments that the 10% figure was provocative, but it's true.

Look at any of the polls on RealClearPolitics and go deep. These voters still haven't made up their mind. They're going to make up their mind in the next four days. And being able to effectively engage them is very important, especially when they are moving from one party to the other. Because the math of a swing voter is that you need two base voters to show up to make up for a swing voter. When the swing voter moves from your side to the other side, it's plus one for them, it's minus one for you. It's a net effect of two voters, right? So that's why it's

so important. And again, the next four days are pivotal. If Harris comes out and says, you know what, I'm for American innovation and crypto is one of those planks, then he could neutralize this voting bloc. And if Trump comes out as he did yesterday and he said, we're going to make America the leading place of innovation for cryptocurrencies and the blockchain, then that might actually move voters. So I agree with everything that Alex said. It's correct, but the way that it plays out in the real world in such a tight election is different. So that's where the qualifier comes into place.

Right. Simon, give us some final thoughts here. Yeah, I just wanted to give some final thoughts on why for those that haven't figured out if you think that holding your crypto in coinbase is the extent of the issue um i just wanted to try and maybe help some people out to understand how important it is for americans um because know, the Constitution was founded upon the principle of trying to hold the government to account. And Bitcoin is a force for that. The ability to own your own money without relying upon a bank and a bank that is spending vast lobby in order to pay corrupt politicians in order to engineer the system in their favor is a constitutional matter.

The ability to be able to spend your money in order to be able to fund things like WikiLeaks so that you can leak documents and stamp out corruption so that you're able to see the true media when most of the media has already been bought by lobbyists in order to achieve agendas that may not be in your interest. And Bitcoin enables payments in order to hold the media to account so that you can have a more honest media. And let's not forget that the entire American economy has been hijacked by the Federal Reserve, where inflation is built into the systemic nature of the dollar. And that has an impact in two things. If you're from the nation that wasn't able to get real estate and wasn't able to get stocks,

then Bitcoin, by beating inflation across its entire history, has given people the ability to protect themselves from the Federal Reserve. And not only that, but the government one day, if it wanted, could implement and end the Fed bill if it actually got a strategic reserve. And if it turned out that the Fed is driving America to these wars and is creating wealth inequality on a scale that may lead to civil unrest, the one asset that may be able to help the government end that Fed would be the government owning its own strategic reserve asset and Bitcoin. So think of it as national security. Think of it as protection of the Constitution.

And the foundation of it is not you being able to make a quick buck by holding your Bitcoin on Coinbase. It is actually you having the choice and right to be able to store your money in self-custody, spend it as you choose, and be able to beat inflation and equalize, and also have your country and all of your companies come along with you. So I think it's a much, much bigger issue than many people see. And it also has an impact on making sure that we can cartel some of these wars that may be fought into the future that you may be less strategically aligned with. Just want to put that out there. Bitcoin for presidents. Thanks, Simon. I think that was a

perfect summary, guys. That's all we got for today. We're going to go ahead and wrap. We'll be back, of course, Monday, 10, 15 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Next week is going to be nuts. Save your energy. All right, everybody. We'll see you on Monday. Have a great one. Bye.