The Wolf Of All Streets - Why Bitcoin Won’t Do 100X: MMA Fighter Ben Askren On Bitcoin, Celebrities & Crypto Adoption

Starting point is 00:00:00 These guys trying to solve all these problems, all he needs is Bitcoin. Solves all this shit. Like that's why I read the handful articles. I'm like, this guy needs to know more about Bitcoin because it would just solve all of his problems. This episode is sponsored by Bullish and Vori. Let's go. This episode is sponsored by Bullish and Vori. Please stay tuned for more information on both of these amazing companies later in the episode. Bitcoin is taking over in the world of sports and definitely in the world of MMA.

Starting point is 00:00:43 I've got one of the most famous fighters of all time and Bitcoin advocates, Ben Askren, who we've gone back and forth being on each other's shows many times before. We had a very frank conversation about how it's going to look when more athletes start to come into the space, what mainstream adoption looks like for Bitcoin and everything you need to know about why you also need to buy this asset. He's the guy I kind of always dealt with. And I got like, I don't know, I just developed like kind of a friendship with him, you know? And he was classically educated,

Starting point is 00:01:10 Ivy League economics. And he wants like, he started harassing me on Bitcoin when it was like $5,000. Like right after March 2020, you know? And I was like trying, he would tell like, just randomly text me,

Starting point is 00:01:23 should I buy it? What's this? What about that? Government's gonna shut it down. And he still hasn't bought any. You know, I know? And I was like trying to, he would tell like, just randomly text me, should I buy it? What's this? What about that? Government's going to shut it down. And he still hasn't bought any, you know? I know, right? But he like, I, what I, I don't know if you found this too, but what I found is the more like classically educated they are, the less likely they are to want to buy into Bitcoin. Because it's like deeply ingrained in you that it's a Ponzi scheme or something. And that the government's gonna regulate it. That's what he was convecting.

Starting point is 00:01:47 Fear of government, yeah. So I saw news yesterday, I think, that MMA is doing like a Bitcoin bonus for the bloodiest fight. Oh, is that what it's for? It was something like you could donate and then you vote on what the best fight was maybe, and then the winner of that fight gets a Bitcoin bounty.

Starting point is 00:02:06 Dang. So I didn't read the whole article, but it said winners will be paid a Bitcoin bonus. I thought that's cool because obviously they have the crypto.com sponsorship. So they should be doing something with it. I guess that's a good start for them. I mean, we're seeing like this crazy sort of mix between sports and crypto like FTX arenas down the road. The Staples Center is now crypto.com. I mean, do you think that that's some of it seems like it's a little forced?

Starting point is 00:02:36 I mean, some of it's the highest bidder, right? And there's a lot of hype around crypto. I think in MMA particularly, and I don't know exactly why it is, something probably with the individualism of the sport, a lot of people are actually into crypto. I think in MMA particularly, and I don't know exactly why it is, something probably with the individualism of the sport, a lot of people are actually into crypto. Like maybe not as far deep as I am, but they're into it, they're buying Bitcoin. So I can't really speak to a lot of other athletes,

Starting point is 00:02:57 but I know in MMA space, there's a lot of dudes. I mean, Francis Ngannou was here yesterday. I saw Mike Perry here. Someone told me Kevin Lee was here. I didn't see him, but there's kind of a lot of guys who are curious or a little bit into crypto. Yeah, I've seen a ton of athletes here. Serena Williams was here.

Starting point is 00:03:14 Oh, yeah. Someone told me Aaron Rodgers was here, too. Him, I didn't see. After you, I'm talking to Chris Carter, the wide receiver, and Theo Ratliff. The old wide receiver from the Vikings? Yeah, we're all old, man. Well, he's older than me. That's the guy we watched.

Starting point is 00:03:29 Fantasy football team when I was in seventh grade. Did you start to play fantasy football that early? Yes, super young. I actually probably stopped. It was, I don't know, a middle school friend. I think maybe his dad did it and he just copied his dad and we had like, you know, eight or ten buddies. I remember I always got Chris Carter and then I got Randy Moss after that Randy Moss was a savage

Starting point is 00:03:47 oh yeah so good but do you think we're seeing like a groundswell among I mean you can't speak for celebrities and athletes in general that are starting to come in yeah I think it's I mean I would just so I I'm sure you in earlier than me but I got it in August of 2017. It was just before that, yeah. It was this weird, awkward space. It was so hard to do everything. No one knew anything.

Starting point is 00:04:16 And I don't want to say it's mainstream yet, because it's definitely not. I don't remember, someone just wrote an article, and I was reading it, and we were talking about, you know, like more mainstream adoption. Like if I talk to any of my just regular buddies, they would probably have some type of opinion on Bitcoin. Right. But how many of them actually use it? And it's probably like one in 40. Right. How many hold any significant portion of their wealth in it? It's probably one in 100.

Starting point is 00:04:40 You know, of my non, so I have crypto friends. Of course. More than that. But of my regular friends, almost none of them hold any real value in it. You know? And like my one buddy last week was like, well, should I get the BlockFi crypto rewards credit card? And he's doing pretty well in life. I said, well, I mean, if you're trying to use it as a hedge, you're not going to, you would need to put like real money. You need to put real money in there. It's not, you can't get a hundred bucks a month. They can do nothing for you.

Starting point is 00:05:07 Even if it's 20 Xs. Right. But that's interesting because you're saying it's 100 of your friends or 40 of your friends. And you're really deep down this rabbit hole and you talk about it all the time. Every single one of those people knows you have a podcast and that you believe in this. So imagine they're like one degree of separation from someone who really cares. It's the same with me. I can't. Yeah, it's true.

Starting point is 00:05:24 A lot of people I'm the closest to in the world don't own Bitcoin. Yes. Never have. Yes. So that's maybe we have mainstream awareness. Awareness. Like, yeah, okay, everybody now like you turn on the TV, you listen to the radio, you walk down the street, you see ads. But that doesn't mean they actually care.

Starting point is 00:05:39 And I do go, I think a lot about like, will we get to this point where people just use it without caring about it? Because, you know, I think Bitcoin is a lot of things to a lot of people. And like my wife is like, she listens to it and she might tell you a couple of the basics, but she doesn't really know nothing about Bitcoin. But when she listened, Yomi Park and Alex Gladstein, I mean, like that's where Bitcoin is really the most powerful. In America, we kind of forget about some of these things that are really prevalent worldwide. And so I think like, are we at the point where people like really understand the power of Bitcoin and like what it does? Or are we just going to skip that phase? Like, you know, you and I probably had that phase and a lot of crypto people had that phase. And they're just going to go, oh, this is

Starting point is 00:06:20 what I use. It's on my phone. Right. You know, they're just going to skip right to that. Like their phone, like the internet. I don't think about how an email works, but I'll send one. Or why it's powerful, you know? And I guess I probably didn't either because I was probably middle school or elementary school, and it was like when the internet was at the phase that Bitcoin is at right now, I was probably

Starting point is 00:06:37 elementary or middle school. I totally missed the Gladstein conversation. I think you're referencing the Bitcoin is freedom panel yesterday. You're the third person who sat down here and referenced it and basically said, no matter how far I was already down this rabbit hole, that one blew my mind. There's a really great, I think it was like a four or five minute animated intro. I would just recommend anyone just go watch that.

Starting point is 00:07:00 It's really powerful because you do like, you know, probably both of us constantly shit on the dollar. Yeah, that's right. Which whatever we can shit on it. But we also kind of then forget how good the dollar is in comparison to a lot of the other currencies and how much freedom we have in America to use our dollars, you know, and that's not the case with everyone else. So when you watch something like that, it is a stark reminder of, oh yeah, you know, that's why.

Starting point is 00:07:25 That's why this is so important. Or like another one I think that we don't see or think about a lot in America is remittance payments. And that was like when my buddy, so my buddy, I red-pilled him, college teammates. He moved to Australia, took a job in mining, and he got into Bitcoin. He came to one of my fights when i was in asia and he orange peeled me and you know one of the things i saw a lot in asia so i was in singapore 12 times was there's so many workers that come from indonesia philippines to work everybody's like an imported worker sending money home and they send money home and they all go so like on sundays you'll

Starting point is 00:08:01 go to eat and there'll be like this hundreds of people over here, you know? And so the first couple of times, I'm like, what are all those? Why are those people doing? What are they doing over there? And it's like, oh, that's where they send the remittance payments, you know? And so you're like, wait. And then you realize they gouge them on it. You know, they take 30 percent.

Starting point is 00:08:18 Yeah. And then it takes a week to get there. And so when you hear about Bitcoin, you're like, like wait i can send money from me to you with no one helping me and i don't have to go in el salvador they were saying that one of the biggest problems wasn't even just the price gouging and the difficulty it's like literally you would go to the western union or whatever it is and the minute you walked out the gang took their part of the money yeah like the the gangs the yeah i don't know if this is like true or what but i heard the same thing yeah Yeah. But we've

Starting point is 00:08:45 all heard the story. Right. So it's like even a matter of safety. Like I want someone to send me my money to my house. Not, it's just like, you obviously look over your shoulder when you use an ATM. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think that's, that's like a really powerful narrative that, and I think some of these narratives are forgotten because we do, we, you know, we crap on America sometimes, but we do have it so good. And our dollar is, you know, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's also your, it's like, sometimes you like do that to a family member, but you still love them. But you forget, like, in most parts of the world, we love Bitcoin and we're in America. So like we can compare it to the dollar, but most people just want dollars. And can't get them. Yeah. And can't get them.

Starting point is 00:09:24 And it actually means stable coins are really powerful for a lot of people in a lot of places. Yeah, absolutely. Or you think about like, I mean, and obviously it's just another topic that we haven't talked about, is like the inflation in America is finally getting to this point where it's really increasing, which I always tell everyone, like every Bitcoiner I know predicted this, zero mainstream economists predicted it. They all said it wasn't going to happen. But in other countries, it's so much worse, right?

Starting point is 00:09:49 Venezuela, Argentina, et cetera, et cetera. And we haven't really had that episode. And I think if it happens in America, it will be a big, like, wake-up call for all of us. But I think it is happening. And I think what's crazy, not like, I don't think we have hyperinflation. We're not Venezuela.

Starting point is 00:10:04 But, you know, they say it's 7.8%. But what's so funny is that in January, there was like this low-key report that nobody read that was like, we've changed the way that we calculate the CPI numbers. They always do. I mean, look at the price. The price of gas is up a lot more than 7.8%. Yeah. And I think home prices were up 25% in the year or something. Insane.

Starting point is 00:10:20 Insane, yes. But like, what does that mean for your average person? All those friends of yours who still don't get it, are they at least saying, well, my house really is expensive now? Yeah, well, the thing about the house is that... Or you're like, I'm psyched, my house is expensive. It's going up in value.

Starting point is 00:10:35 It appreciates, but then you've got to go buy something. You've got to live somewhere else or buy something else. Home prices are insane right now. I've had one or two people sell and try to move and I can't freaking buy anything. Yeah, it's like with used cars being more expensive than they were when you bought them. It's great if you have an extra car.

Starting point is 00:10:55 Yeah. But nobody has an extra house laying around to sell you stuff to live somewhere. Absolutely. Right, so nobody really benefits from it going up unless you're just a company that's price gouging people on a bunch of real estate that they bought a long time ago in advance of the bubble. Have you ever been trading crypto and during bouts of high volatility,

Starting point is 00:11:12 had your exchange go completely offline or seen the order books go thin and have absolutely no liquidity for your trade? I know that you have. It's happened to every single crypto trader, but it's not an issue anymore thanks to Bullish. Bullish is a powerful new exchange for digital assets that offers deep liquidity, automated market making, and industry-leading security. Combining the innovations of DeFi with the regulated environment of traditional finance, Bullish empowers users to trade with confidence across variable market conditions while secure in a regulated environment that's backed by multi-billion dollar liquidity contributions from the bullish treasury. Follow at bullish on Twitter or visit bullish.com

Starting point is 00:11:50 slash melker to learn more. I'm currently wearing the most comfortable clothing on the planet. Are you? Unless you're wearing Vori, then your answer is obviously no. Guys, if you've listened to my live streams, then you've probably heard me rant and rave about this incredible company. We love them so much that we reached out and did a sponsorship deal after I've already been talking about them for months. Yes, it's athletic wear, but you can wear it almost anywhere and it's the majority of my wardrobe. Seriously, I wear these clothes all the time. If they would make a tuxedo, I would have worn it to my wedding. And you can feel great about wearing these clothes as well because they're offsetting 100%

Starting point is 00:12:25 of both their carbon and plastic footprint guys wearing vori is an investment in your happiness and your comfort i am serious these clothing are incredible get 20 off of your first purchase at vori.com slash melker that's v-u-o-r-i.com slash M-E-L-K-E-R. If you're not wearing these clothes yet, you need to go get them right now. So I don't know what's going to happen to all my friends who don't buy Bitcoin because I have convinced a handful. Nothing like, like I think my mom and her husband, they got them by $6,000 with the Bitcoin, somewhere around 20. So it's probably worth it. It's not nothing.

Starting point is 00:13:07 But they did well. They've done well so far, right? But I didn't get anyone to buy it. I got one person under 10. I got some people to buy it at 65. 65,000 or 6,500? 65,000. I got people.

Starting point is 00:13:27 Well, you know, I can be blamed for dollar cost averaging people in. I never stopped talking about it. That's funny. So, okay, you got your mom. That's good. Yeah, and then, but like they actually bought, I don't want to say $3,000 is insignificant, but it's more than most people buy. Most people buy like, oh, I buy 500 bucks or I buy 1,000 bucks. And it's like, yeah, but when you compare that to what your like net worth is, if we have a significantly inflationary event, that's not

Starting point is 00:13:50 going to help you. It's not, you need to put more than that in. I mean, yeah, I guess it's all always relative to like a thousand bucks. If your entire net worth is $2,000, you did it. But yeah, if you're like a dude who owns a house and some cars and and you've got a hundred you know a million bucks yeah a thousand dollars it's like it's like you're buying you know to them it's probably more like they're buying a lottery ticket than a hedge at that point then you know it's more speculation yeah but i mean at this point bitcoin's well you're the price guy so i probably shouldn't even say this but like uh bitcoin's not going to do 100x from here. I agree with that.

Starting point is 00:14:26 You know, it's, and, you know, it's going to do 25x essentially is a million dollars, right? So if they bought 1,000 bucks, it'll be 25,000, like, again, not much money to them. So I think they didn't think about it that way. But the other point I did make, too, John Kim was being a little pessimistic yesterday. God forbid. I know. Geez. I almost had to rough him up. But he said, you know, he said, he said, you know, people are on the way up.

Starting point is 00:14:55 But at some point, I think we all think that Bitcoin is going to be the thing. It's going to be more of a stable price, right? When it gets to the top. But then when you think about bitcoin versus owning anything else well if you're holding dollars at that point you're still losing value because they're inflating and your bitcoin is you know holding relative value yeah i think the end game is like when we stop pricing it it's like everything's right what can i buy in bitcoin even if it's not everything it's just if even mentally i guess if you start thinking about your value in bitcoin and start saying right i mean you're right maybe if if that's staying the same price but everything

Starting point is 00:15:29 else is hyperinflated yeah it's a different completely different world but i don't think bitcoin needs to like become the global reserve current it's a great dream right but there's like everything doesn't have to have to happen doesn't have to happen to the most extreme case why would so i this is where i see, like, why wouldn't it? You know, I understand, like, the governments and everything. And actually, you probably read The Sovereign Individual, right? Yeah, of course. The announcement that Max Keiser made, I think, probably was also a little disappointing to some people.

Starting point is 00:15:59 He announced it was Prospera, which is a Honduran island. Madeira, which is Portugal. Mexico. And then so he's going to talk to the Mexican president. But the first two, they're essentially like cities or sovereign areas, you know, and they're saying, we want to incentivize Bitcoiners and Bitcoin companies to move here by giving you all these benefits. And like that really made me think of the sovereign individual.

Starting point is 00:16:25 Like, oh, I mean, I'm not going to take advantage of it, but I'm sure someone is. Someone whose life is all the way wrapped up in Bitcoin and say, shit, I get those four advantages? Yeah, it looks nice. I'll go there. And so we're moved to this place where people are clustered among like-minded people. I think it's happening in Puerto Rico for Americans, right?

Starting point is 00:16:46 Yeah. It's so funny. Anytime you say, like, complain about the American tax code or what's going on, people are like, just move, man. And I'm like, you clearly don't understand that my taxes are following me wherever I go. You can't just move to Portugal and stop paying taxes, but you can go to Puerto Rico and pay 4%. You would have to, you'd have to renounce your citizenship. Yeah, but I think even if now, if you have a certain amount of wealth, even if you renounce your citizenship, they still make you pay for another 10 years or something. Really?

Starting point is 00:17:09 I can't remember what the quote is, but cutting off your citizenship does not even eliminate your tax burden. Eventually it does. Eventually, okay. It depends. I think if you have already $2 million and you try to move off, then it triggers, like, basically if you're rich and you go. Just tell them you lost your keys. Well, they just know, yeah, it was a boating accident. Yeah, seriously. Yeah, I guess if it's in crypto... Just tell them you lost your keys. Well, they just know, yeah, it was a boating accident. Yeah, seriously.

Starting point is 00:17:25 Yeah, I guess if it's in crypto, then they wouldn't know at all. But you can go to Puerto Rico, and we're seeing people move their entire families, their entire lives there just for that tax benefit. So you're right. Like, if you're from somewhere else in the world where you can move, unlike the United States, there's a guy, Nomad Capitalist. Yeah, I agree. We were treated best. Right, there's a guy, nomad capitalist, who we were treated best. Right? That's what he says. He's always kind of pushing for a second or third passport,

Starting point is 00:17:49 an option to, you know, escape. And so I, one of, I think it was my wife's brother, actually, maybe was kind of really into him. And I started looking at some of the stuff. And, you know, I thought, Scott, I thought, these guys trying to solve all these problems, all he needs is Bitcoin. Solves all this shit.

Starting point is 00:18:09 Like, that's why I read a handful of articles. I'm like, this guy needs to know more about Bitcoin because it would just solve all of his problems. Yeah. We like to say, I don't think Bitcoin fixes everything, but it definitely fixes a lot of shit. Fixes a lot, yeah. All right, man.

Starting point is 00:18:21 Where can everybody find you, check you out after this? I'm at Ben Askren. Twitter. I don't really use Instagram. I'm on there. I don't really love it. I like Twitter. I enjoy Twitter.

Starting point is 00:18:30 Me too. I'm on Facebook. Also don't really post there. Him and John have one of the best podcasts. No, we retired, though. Okay. Him and John had one of the best podcasts in the game. Two weeks ago.

Starting point is 00:18:42 I was on that within a month. You can't expect that. I wanted to retire in episode 100. I was on that within a month. You can't expect that. I wanted to retire in episode 100. I said, we did 100 episodes. We've been doing this for a little over two years.

Starting point is 00:18:51 Episode 100, great place to stop. He's like, no, man, I really like it. What he told me that made me want to keep going

Starting point is 00:18:58 was he said, we get to talk to all these really cool people. We get an hour of their time. You couldn't just say, hey,

Starting point is 00:19:04 do a phone call with me for an hour, right, to most of these people. You get an hour of their time. You couldn't just say, hey, do a phone call with me for an hour, right? To most of these people. You would have never sat down with me ever. Yes. Okay? So it's hard. Fuck this guy.

Starting point is 00:19:11 No, but seriously. We've been doing this a while now. Like, hey, let's sit down and talk. You know, like that's a weird proposition. But hey, come on my podcast. Like, that's normal. Yeah. It's like the best free college education from the best professors in the world.

Starting point is 00:19:23 Absolutely. So that was, he talked me into it. And so I'm like, okay, you're right. I would never want to talk to all these really awesome people. And one of the things, if we didn't have the podcast, let's keep going. And then eight episodes later, he goes, hey, I'm going to do this startup. I don't have time anymore. Oh, that makes sense.

Starting point is 00:19:37 I'm afraid for the world if John doesn't have anywhere to focus his energy. He does. Yeah. He's out of control, man. All right, dude. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm glad we finally. We're just out of control, man. All right, dude, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm glad we finally got to meet in person. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:19:48 Awesome. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you haven't already left a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please do that now. Spotify just added ratings, so please go ahead and click that five star. I'll see you guys next time.

The Wolf Of All Streets - Why Bitcoin Won’t Do 100X: MMA Fighter Ben Askren On Bitcoin, Celebrities & Crypto Adoption

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.