The Wolf Of All Streets - Why Do Bitcoin Holders Remain So Bullish?

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

I am joined by Sidney Powell, the CEO and Co-Founder of Maple, a digital asset lending platform. Together we will break down what's going on in crypto and Sidney will make an important announcement!  Sidney Powell: https://x.com/syrupsid?lang=en COMMENT AND ENGAGE WITH ME! https://roundtable.rtb.io/shortUrl/XuptgnL ►►My friends from The Arch Public, Andrew Parish, and Tillman Holloway, are joining in the second part of the stream to provide an update on the $10K algorithmic portfolio.  Unleash algorithmic trading with The Arch Public: https://thearchpublic.com/  Andrew Parish: https://twitter.com/AP_Abacus  Tillman Holloway: https://twitter.com/texasol61  ►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEKDAY! 👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/   ►► The Arch Public Unleash algorithmic trading. Discover how algorithms used by hedge-funds are now accessible to traders looking for unparalleled insights and opportunities!  👉https://thearchpublic.com/  ►►OKX SIGN UP FOR AN OKX TRADING ACCOUNT THEN DEPOSIT & TRADE TO UNLOCK MYSTERY BOX REWARDS OF UP TO $60,000!  👉https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER  ►►TRADING ALPHA READY TO TRADE LIKE THE PROS? THE BEST TRADERS IN CRYPTO ARE RELYING ON THESE INDICATORS TO MAKE TRADES. Use code 'TENOFFSALE' for a 10% discount. 👉https://tradingalpha.io/?via=scottmelker  ►►NGRAVE This is the coldest hardware wallet in the world and the only one that I personally use. 👉https://www.ngrave.io/?sca_ref=4531319.pgXuTYJlYd  ►►NORD VPN  GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL - 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! 👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets   Follow Scott Melker: Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker   Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io   Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe   Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c   #Bitcoin #Crypto #Trading The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to "Buy," "Sell," or "Hold" an investment.

Bitcoin may be chopping sideways and it may have gotten rejected yet again at $70,000, but Bitcoin holders remain exceptionally bullish. On-chain data shows over 50% of Bitcoin supply remains completely inactive, obviously a sign of strong long-term conviction in Bitcoin. What does this mean for the cycle? Does it mean that we all just need to be patient and wait for price to inevitably go up once again like it does every for the cycle? Does it mean that we all just need to be patient and wait for price to inevitably go up once again like it does every halving cycle? We're going to dig into a lot more than that because I've got one of my favorite guests today, Sidney Powell from Maple Finance.

We're going to talk about all this. Of course, 9.30 a.m. I've got the boys from Arch Public with a huge update on what the $10,000 portfolio we've been trading is doing. You guys don't want to miss this one. Let's go. This DeFi pioneer launches new Web3 media platform roundtable at Consensus Conference. Yeah, that's Al Herzog, who was the founder of Bancor, literally created liquidity pools and AMMs. But what you may not have read about, there's another press release there, is that as a part of that, James Heckman, who's a media mogul in the United States, partnered with Al to build this platform. But the first core users and equity holders are myself, Mario Noffel, the Altcoin Daily guys, George from I Am George, We Are All George, of course, Crypto R Us,

Bitcoin Magazine. And so there's a million reasons that we're doing this, but one of them is to kill the bots and have an uncensorable community where we can actually discuss things. You guys may have noticed, if you look at YouTube comments and you dig into YouTube comments, it's literally a million bots. There's no way that as a creator, I could engage with community there. So we're going to start doing a little beta test. You guys will see down in the description, there's a link that says where you can go and comment and engage.

So after the show, it says comment and engage with me. And there's a link to a post I did about this. If you guys want to actually talk about the show or what happens here, that's a place I will actually commit to go and respond and try to engage with your comments where I can actually see them. So be a cool test there. We'll see how that goes. A lot more to it, but that's the start. I'll remind you guys more about that at the end. But we've got Sid. Good morning. How are you? I missed you at Consensus somehow this time. Hey, Scott. I'm good. I'm good. I know we didn't manage to catch each other, but we'll have to do it at the next conference. Usually we get at least one walk by, but like

I said, I was busy with this roundtable thing and I didn't really get the opportunity. I mean, first, just take a look as we do on this show at the market. I mean, everything's flat, right? We know that meme coins have gone crazy to some degree and there's these little things, but Bitcoin, it tried at 70 yesterday, right back at 69. I mean, is it your opinion right now that this is just the normal cycle? People seem to be freaking out that we're sideways when the expectation should have been that we're sideways at this point of the cycle yeah i think of this as a normal part of the cycle so um doesn't surprise me that we've been sideways it would surprise me if we don't see another leg up before the end of the year though i think we're you know i i'm positioning for that to occur. And in the

lending markets, what that means for folks like us is that you expect to see rates increase on lending against Bitcoin, as we did in February, March this year. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I mean, the title here, obviously, before we dig into a little more into that, Bitcoin sees profit taking around 70k amid stubbornly bullish sentiment. As I said at the beginning, I mean, nothing's happening. Supply is inactive. It's low on exchanges, right? We are still seeing pretty massive inflows. I mean, $105 million a day yesterday into the ETF. Even though price isn't moving massively, there's a lot of bullish sentiment still behind the scenes. And it kind of refuses to drop at the same time as it refuses to rise, right?

I mean, you would think that people would get bored, they'd start selling, but we're still just hanging out here just under 70,000. Yeah, yeah. I mean, whenever I speak to folks at the big asset managers running the ETFs, they're always commenting on the strength of inflows. And unfortunately, with markets the way they are, we'll see a leg up and then everyone will say how obvious it was in hindsight. But everybody's treating it as unexpected in the moment. Yeah, absolutely. So listen, let's talk about what you guys are doing because we're back, baby, to 15% yields, even higher yields. You guys obviously launched Syrup here. We can dig into how that actually works, how that yield is created. Are we back to where yield is not a four-letter word and people aren't panicking when they see 15% yields? Because last cycle, obviously, that was the harbinger of doom, so to speak.

People are still understandably skeptical of yields. But what I'd say is we're seeing two different kinds of yield. And one of the reasons we segregated them out is because of how risk-conscious people are. So at the moment, rates on BTC, on lending against BTC, are probably around 11%. So that's nothing crazy. But you can get above 15% if you're lending against an altcoin like, say, Solana, and then staking the collateral to get an extra yield from there. That's how we produce the yield in the high yield pool. But even that, it's not super complicated. It's certainly not as complicated as half of the stuff that was going on

last cycle. So I would say, generally, we're seeing leverage. Leverage is still relatively low to where we were last cycle. So I don't think there's any cause for people to be panicking just yet. Relatively low to where it was at the top of last cycle or was at this point in last cycle? Are we talking 2020 or are we talking at 2021 where things were going absolutely wild? We're talking 2021 and early 2022. So top of the cycle. I'd say we're still... Leverage is probably maybe 10% to 20% of what it was then. And most of the lending being done today is still over-collateralized. You're not seeing a ton of under-collateralized stuff. And there's a lot of factors driving that. One, general risk appetite is still not where it was.

But also, there just isn't the ton of capital that there was flooding in on the VC side towards lenders. And I think if you have hundreds of millions of dollars burning a hole in your bottom line because you're paying out deposit interest on it, it really creates an incentive if you're a lending business to put that to work. And that was just one of the mechanics that we saw last cycle. So I think things still have a long way to go before we're at, call it even six or seven thinnings. Yeah. But one of the big arguments through this cycle was, why would I use DeFi if I can get 5% on a bond? On a T-bill. On a T-bill or a treasury. but we're back to being able to beat that. Right.

So is that, are we beating that in a safe manner? How, where's that? I mean, you kind of described where it's coming from, but, or is it just that now it's risky, but we're offering much clearer disclosures and people understand the risks better. It's still riskier than holding T-bills. But of course the risk, the risk in holding T-bills is that you don't beat inflation, which has been a persistent problem over the last few years. We're no longer in a zero rate, zero inflation environment that we were up until COVID. And so in the zero rate environment, you were getting rates of, you know, 7, 8, 9. So that was effectively a spread of 7 to 9 points.

What you're seeing now is that T-bill rates are about 5 and you can get about 11 on lending against Bitcoin. So that's still a spread of about 6%. So we are still beating it quite handily. And then if you look at the higher yield stuff like lending against Solana, you can, of course, get, you know, T-bills plus 12%, 13%, 14%. So that is quite a lot, quite a bit more appealing. And generally, what you're seeing is that corporate treasuries are liking the kind of the 11%, 12% rates on BTC-backed stuff because it's quite conservative. Whereas high net worths are always kind of early adopters, and they're seeking more of the higher risk, higher yield stuff. You said, but you guys are still primarily over collateralized here.

All over collateralized. Yeah. Yeah. So these are 60 to 75% LTV loans. That means generally, you've got about $140 worth of Bitcoin for every $100 of lending you're putting out the door. And then we set triggers. So you have a margin call trigger when it gets to 80 ltv you have another margin uh you have a liquidation threshold when it gets to 85.90 and that just means you're just closing out the position you're not asking the borrower for any more margin at that point and um what we've found is that that segment of the market was so destroyed after last cycle that there is a massive underupply there and so you can you can enter that market lend quite profitably collect uh you know 200 to 250 point um net interest margin and um and we we haven't seen prices compressed too much there because there's just nobody

supplying that space meanwhile we see anyone who of going and theoretically go participate as a lender and they get matched with someone who wants to borrow and a smart contract effectively does the margin call and liquidates them. You get your collateral back. So your collateral as a lender is theoretically never at risk unless there's some unknown smart contract risk or something. Well, actually, it's a hybrid. So we do the loans through smart contracts, but we hold the collateral in custodian. So it's kind of like a C5, DeFi hybrid. And that's because most of our borrowers can't touch smart contracts when it comes to putting their collateral away. They'll have GCs and compliance officers who won't let them put the collateral in smart contracts for both concerns around automated, you know,

a hack or an automated liquidation. And so we have margin call triggers that are automated, but then that will kick off a workflow where we'll contact the borrower, contact the custodian. But yes, theoretically, you shouldn't lose any money if you're a lender and you're mostly putting in USDC. So we're open to other stable coins, but that's been the main thing that people have been wanting to borrow and wanting to lend. Bitcoin unfortunately still has a relatively low yield, although we've been able to get about 7% to 8% of late. Yeah. Okay. That all makes absolutely perfect sense and explains how it's being done and who's doing it. So, CIFI was terrifying, obviously,

because you didn't know what people were doing with your money. And you didn't know how... And also, it was sitting in one balance sheet. Yeah, you didn't know whether it was over-collateralized, under-collateralized. The under-collateralized stuff was mixed with the over-collateralized stuff. There may be some loans against venture in those books. So, it was very opaque.

And I have to say, this is one of the core things we still strive to do, which is use the on-chain loans for transparency and verifiability, which I think is one of the things that sets it apart. Yeah. I mean, you guys have seen some impressive metrics. I guess it gives us a hint as to the appetite, right? You've gone from 130 million, I believe, to around 200 million TVL in 2024. And it should be noted, I think, that you have a maximum 30-day liquidity, and this is only for accredited investors. So that's also a differentiator. This isn't a random cab driver

somewhere who put all his money onto Celsius thinking that it was his bank account. This is an accredited investor choosing from multiple yield strategies who understands in theory the risks. And there's clearly a massive appetite for that since you're up huge this year on TVM. Yes. So far, the growth's been good this year. So increase grew by about 130 mils, sitting at about 200 mils. So up 400% since this time last year. And in the US, it's certainly only accredited investors that we're offering this to. Part of what we've wanted to do is broaden access in the DeFi space, allow more DeFi integrations.

And that is partly why we've released the new product that we announced last week, which is, of course, Syrup. So talk about Syrup then. So Syrup is, think of it as DeFi access to the same quality yields that we have on regular Maple pools. So these are all secured over collateralized loans as they are on the rest of Maple to institutional borrowers. However, it's accessible to a broader set of DeFi users. So anyone, I have to say it is offshore from the US,

but anyone then in DeFi cannot. Unfortunately, as long as we still have the same regulatory regime, you're not going to see a ton of new DeFi products accessible in the US. But so seamless DeFi access, so you'll be able to you'd be able to get your deposit to a pool through the syrup front end, get your LP token, you can use that in amm, you can use it as

collateral. Or if you're a DeFi protocol, you can easily integrate with syrup fi and and make deposits and withdrawals from those pools. But what we've tried to do is add liquidity and make this more integrated with DeFi ecosystems, but still kind of leveraging all of the product infrastructure we've built. So the borrower legal documents, the collateral management, the network of borrowers who use the platform around the world. So hopefully, hopefully, hopefully this will, we'll see some growth come out of this. But it does represent an effort to kind of unblock that lack

of access to DeFi that most of offshore retailers have. Yeah. And another obviously main driver, I think, for your business, or at least what you want to do in the future is tokenizing assets, right? So which this is all a part of, but we've talked at length. I haven't even looked at the numbers. I just tried to bring up the RWA site and it gave me a block. You're about to get hacked, scam thing in RWA. So I didn't click on the link. Don't do that guys in here. But where do we stand right now with tokenized treasuries? I think it was about a billion dollars last time we spoke.

Yeah, it's grown a bit. I think we saw, so there's two tails in the numbers. One from November to about March, it was kind of, it peaked, dropped a bit, and then rose to its previous peak from November. That was with the products that were already out. So like for like, we're kind of seeing same numbers, but the new products that came in this year. So the two big ones being Superstate um which is robert leshner's uh new startup and biddle which is the blackrock um the blackrock tokenized money market fund on ethereum uh drove most of the new numbers since then so um i'd say we're probably at about a

bill and a half and that product i think i often talk about this but the And that product, I think, I often talk about this, but the reason that product saw such high numbers or that product category was the lack of access of crypto startups to conventional banking and conventional banking rails, which was due to choke point 2.0 around the start of last year. So that was crypto coming up with a solution to a really quite important problem facing startups in the space. Yeah. So what else are you guys looking to tokenize? Because I want to dig into a few things that are being tokenized right now that are pretty cool. But on your end, you've obviously got the treasuries, obviously, all the other things we've discussed. I mean, what else do you think? Real estate seems to be the low hanging fruit that everybody

wants to tokenize, but I haven't really seen it to any great degree. Everybody wants to tokenize real estate and I meet a ton of real estate tokenization startups. I think the challenge for that market is it's appealing to go into because it's such a large total addressable market. So it's kind of a trap, right? Like when you always go off to the largest total addressable market, sometimes you find that it's difficult to actually get the first products off the ground. And the reason for that is real estate is very competitively priced. It's tax advantaged in traditional finance anyway. And then there is a massive set of infrastructure around it, like securitization, ratings agencies, that's very entrenched and very hard to crack into. What I'm really bullish on is private credit and direct lending.

And partly what we've tried to do is effectively Maple's loans are kind of tokenized versions of direct lending, if you will, because the loan is just natively originated on-chain as a token. And so I expect that you'll see more private credit and direct lending come on-chain because that is one of the fastest growing areas in traditional finance. Yeah. So I want to talk about some cool things that are being tokenized here. One of them, Novogratz Galaxy tokenizes a 316-year-old violin to back loan. You guys have seen Yatsu from Animoca on my show many times. Well, he's the buyer of this violin who took the loan there's a 1708 strativarius that was owned by russian empress catherine the great so apparently novo galaxy tokenized it they gave

yet a loan on it and right now they hold both the tokenized version the nft presumably of it and the actual violin in custody until the loan is paid off, at which point I assume Yatsu gets to go do a concerto with Empress Catherine the Great. I actually saw Yat last week in Consensus and he didn't mention this. So I'm surprised he didn't lead with it in conversation. It's a pretty interesting tidbit. But tokenization of collectibles, I think, is very interesting. We had looked at lending against NFTs,

and we also actually had some requests for lending against tokenized collectible cars and things in the past as well. The challenge with lending against those types of assets is just one mark to market. How does Galaxy determine if the price of the Stradivarius has dropped? There's not a, there's not an exchange for these violins. So that's, that's kind of, let's call it really high. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where's the margin call? if, yeah, can't meet the repayments. But I will say in offsetting that, you have the fact that it's a 300-year-old asset.

So I'm sure in 300 years, I'd be very comfortable with the price history of CryptoPunks and Bored Apes as collateral. So that is one thing you point to. You've got 300 years of price data on those things. And you know that the core team, Strad of various is is dead. So he's definitely not producing any of any more of those there is a hard cap on the number of strata viruses, whereas there's not necessarily

a hard cap on the number of some of these other NFT assets that we've looked at lending out. But I think I suspect it's probably pretty low LTV, it's probably something like two to maybe 3 million. So I don't think there's much risk there for Galaxy. Yeah, I don't think there's much risk and they know yet. So I think this is a proof of concept. I think this is like a PR stunt to some degree. And I don't say that in a negative way, but let's do this among two very trusted parties who know each other and understand everything about tokenization and this and see if we can hook some other fish who are looking to buy rare one of a kind artifacts

from the past. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This isn't going to be a marketplace. This is going to be like somebody is going to go to this is a like, you know, like having a private banker who you go to for a specific loan.

You're going to go to Galaxy and say, I want to buy this very specific thing. You look at me, this is going to be a public eBay for us out of areas. It's an interesting market because one, I'm sure you can get really good interest rates on those loans. And it's a good market to get an entry point in with ultra high net worth clients. So you've got the latest Scion of the JP Morgan family has an expensive art collection and wants a loan, but it's probably willing to pay overs against it. I think that's where the market is. And it's actually a pretty large one

and I think quite an attractive one. So I think of it as a good move for Galaxy. We'll see if they can productize it and make it into a more scaled product though. Yeah, I think I saw that their loan book is currently around $600 million. So not a drop in the bucket, but not the most meaningful part of their business. But do a few $5-10 million loans here and there and it can become an actual meaning part of their business. So I would imagine with very low risk. I'm not sure if you saw this one as well. Watford FC,

Watford Football Club, I believe they're in the second tier of the Premier League, to sell 10% of the club as digital equity, including tokens to investors and fans. Now, we saw some athletes actually in the United States in the past, both with and without blockchain, sell like a piece of their career. Dinwiddie, a basketball player, actually did it with crypto, basically selling like, you know, you could buy a piece of his future earnings, believing in his potential.

But this is actually ownership of the club. Legitimate ownership via token. Does it say who it's being distributed through? Like, is it just going direct to the fans or is it being done through a platform like Securitize? That's a very good question. We know it's an investment platform, Republic, and it's a platform, Cedars. Yeah, Securitize is who's doing Biddle for BlackRock, right? Yeah, for BlackRock. Yeah, yeah. And Republic's the other one that has more of a heavy retail focus. I think it's super interesting. Like most people in the space,

I have the perspective that almost all future equity is going to be done as tokens and that you're going to have this massive expansion of the market. Even what seem like small businesses are able to tokenize their equity and then sell it to a wider set of investors. I don't see why you wouldn't have that being the case because it just broadens access to alternative investments to the masses. It's tremendously expensive to go public on a stock exchange and the annual ongoing compliance costs are ridiculous. And I think that's ultimately a loss borne by society. So tokenization offers a way of mitigating that. Yeah. I mean, I think this is a pretty big move for a football club, right? I mean, 10% is not small. And if it works, we're going to see others follow. I mean, we know about socios and chilies and fan tokens. This is already happening

to some degree. But to feel like you have real ownership, like the people, the Green Bay Packers in the United States, I don't know if you know, but that's actually owned by the fans collectively without the tokenization side. But this just, I think, makes it much more seamless, removes the intermediaries. I think you'll see it. You'll probably see it happen more in maybe emerging markets or places that don't have an existing capital market, because it offers a way to kind of access offshore capital markets. And there's not much opportunity for us because you're not going to go public on the stock exchange in a lot of those countries. Yeah, exactly. So there's one other thing I wanted you to comment on before we're done,

because this story blew my mind. Totally unrelated. It hit me. But kind of related. Solana saw nearly a half million tokens launched last month. 500,000 shit coins launched on Solana in 30 days. That's a lot of shit coins. Are we nuts?

We lost our goddamn minds. I mean, what's happening? That's an incredible amount of shit coins. I, you know, whenever we have a team dinner, some of the younger guys on the team start talking about the shit coin or the meme coins that they're trading. So I do know a few popular ones recently. Zin was a real popular one amongst our team.

And it even got to the point where I was out for a walk, walking the dog with my wife the other day. And she was talking about potentially launching her own meme coin based on her Twitter account. So 500,000 doesn't surprise me. It's because it kind of got to the stage where you're in an Uber and the Uber driver's talking about launching a meme coin. I thought we were kind of, well, that was my top signal in March for the entire, and I've been right about that. I said, listen, this meme coin

nonsense, it's over. We're going to go sideways for six months like i it's whatever not like the top was in but that top was in right yeah now we're now it's even worse right i mean we got india like twerking for mother dollar tokens you know as you said another you're proud of our australian heritage i know um right i mean come on man this is we saw so we we we've actually seen a couple of offers for borrowing against uh against meme coins where people have wanted to put up say 50 million of a meme coin to borrow like anywhere from like one to five mil well so yeah like like like yeah so like uh so like think of like an ltv of like five to ten percent um but uh we we have not touched it we've been kind of taking a taking a wait and see approach but shows you there are

some people out there sitting on absolutely monster bags of these things that they can't do anything with so it's kind of like captive capital can't borrow against it you can't offload that amount of volume so like what do you do? It's paper wealth that you can't really monetize. Yeah. I mean, how much of one of these could you reasonably sell without crashing the market if you have a billion dollars worth of a sub-shitcoin or $100 million or even $5 million? You sell 50 grand and you destroy the market, it goes to zero. And you still get liquidated on your loan when you took it at 5%. I mean, it's nuts. Because they can go to zero.

Yeah. And your loan's not going to be cheap either. Your loan's going to be like 20%. Oh, God. I hope we don't start doing that. I'm glad you guys are saying no to that. Because that to me would be like, I would be running for the hills. I'd sell it all and move on with my life. No, we'll stick to violence. Anything else

I might have missed before I let you go? No, no. So, um, for anyone listening syrup, uh, syrup's in the signup phase at the moment.

Um, two and a half weeks, we'll open up for deposits and then we'll have early access running for four to six weeks till about the end of July. So if you're, uh, if you're interested in taking a look at to syrup. So we've got the,

uh, the finished domain name for that. Awesome, man. Thank you, Sid. Always a pleasure guys. Follow him. Thank you, Sid. Always a pleasure. Guys, follow him, Syrup Sid. I never forget your name on Twitter. My pleasure. Thanks.

Now you actually got Syrup. Now Syrup even makes more sense. Yeah, Syrup 5, Syrup Sid. Love it. All right, guys. Thank you to Sid and check him out. Always a pleasure, man. Later. Thanks, guys. I see a few of you guys actually over here. You actually listened to me and you went over and started commenting on our TV. I'm going to respond to these after. See that? Go in the link below. I'm going to respond.

See how there's no spam in there? No assholes going, I bought Amazon A7397 token and it made me a rich asshole. There's like 7,000 of the comments in a row and then I see one of you in the actual YouTube comments like, good show, man. I'm like, cool. I'm glad I spent 47 minutes to find the comment where you told me that the show was good. Speaking of things that

are good, I think you know what I'm about to say next because it's Tuesday and it's 9.30. I got Andrew and Tillman and holy shit, Arch Public is crushing crushing right yeah i mean we you've said it you be patient it looks for the opportunity it doesn't take that many trades but damn when it does uh things can go really really good because we're up 21 in 45 45 days on the $10,000 portfolio. Currently sitting at $12,175 unless something else happened today.

And last week, the algo did a 12% gain on the entire portfolio in 90 minutes. Yeah, we've had a really active may you can expect uh from a gap trader you know three two trades a month for each one and uh this month's been a four trade month for the s&p so that was a a pretty active month but um yeah this is working uh exactly the way we've seen it work, which is, you know, you can't say that again. For years. Yeah, for years. People should know that you've been doing this for years. Correct.

Yes, that's correct. You can't win every trade, right? But the reason why I've lost the majority of the trades in my life, the losers that I look at and analyze, like, how did I get here, have been because I've broken my rules. I've gotten emotional in the trade, and or I've gotten bored and taken trades that are not in the scope of what I've told myself is the scope that I should make trades with them. And so, you know, when you trade automation, you don't have any of those temptations. You don't get the emotional swings. You let the math do the work. You are persistent in your activity because you have something that's sitting there watching the

markets for you every single day. And it's looking for those opportunities. It doesn't need to be impatient. It doesn't have any emotion. It doesn't get bored and so you take these really high value setups and you play them and if they start going the wrong way, the the math will cut you off very quickly or quicker than your your wins and if it starts going the right way and starts doing what the play is intended to do, and whether it's long or short, then the math is going to take care of itself. And it's going to get you out at a profit target that's proportionate to your risk, right? Because trading is about

having proportionate risk reward ratios. You don't want to get, for example, I've talked to a lot of traders that will say, I made $500. And then I'll ask them, well, how much did you risk for that $500? If the answer is $500, that's a real bad trade. You don't want a one-to-one risk-reward ratio, right? And so there's this incredibly intensive math that's typically involved in understanding what your risk reward ratio should be, because you don't a lot of people don't know what their entry should be. So if you're playing willy nilly on a motion and you see the charts and you get excited and you enter, well, now you want to watch the charts and you don't want to get on the calculator and try to figure out where your exit should be. Right.

Is this all of it? Stop loss? Stop loss? Maybe. Take profit. Even those. I'll find myself, if I'm setting my own stop losses or my own profit targets, I'll look at the charts and convince myself that this is a real good one and it's going to reach a little bit higher.

And I'll start playing again, like I'm smart. And the markets make a fool of all of us. That is one thing I will attest to. And so the point is, is that if you play with automation, you're removing all of those human deficiencies from the process. And so, yeah, long and short of it, we had four trades in May, all really kind of back to back. May 21st, May 22nd, May 24th and May 31st.

And the May 31st one was obviously the showpiece of the month. It was a plus 12.96 percent trade. That's a good year. Yeah. Well, you know, we have that question a lot. And here's the point. Like one of the things that we did when we designed this program was try to get people to just believe that there was automation available to retail consumers. Like that's, if you talk to a lot of people, you'll get a mixed response of,

well, I've heard about automation, but most of those are a scam. I've never seen one or been able to play with it myself, or it's always overseas and I'm not going to do that. It's too risky. This is US-based. TradeStation is an incredible partner. They've got incredible customer service. They can manage your entire account with you as it pertains to your trading activity and withdrawals and deposits and all those things. We do not manage any money. We do not take trades for anyone. This is a user-driven software. So the best part about it is that you get to play with it. You can run it locally on your hard drive, or you can hire an execution partner to run it for you.

That's licensed to do that. We are not that execution partner. We are a software development company and we are traders and we love math and we love looking at markets and saying, how can we provide tools to the retail consumer that they've never seen before that do help them remove emotion and give them more discipline and keep them watching for specific setups more aggressively and more, you know, religiously, if you will. And so that's what our aim is. We're going to continue to focus on that. And I can't tell you that next month's going to be a winning month. No one knows that, but I can tell you that this has been a consistent performer. It's been something, if you believe in the efficiencies of

the market theory and you believe that gaps are inefficiencies that will fill, then it's not hard to get on board with what this strategy does. So for us, this is all about math, right? And I like to talk about the math maths and the math works. And so there's four levels of math that go into just our introductory product. gap closing 64% of the time. So if that's true, and it is true, you bet on that just one level of math. So there's our first level of math. The second level of math is our gap strategies have anywhere from a 58% to 59% profitable win percentage on an annualized basis. So there's your second level of math. If that's the only level of math you have, you keep trading and you're going to win long term. The third level of math we have is we have a 2.5 or 3.1 profit factor with our gap strategies. That means every dollar that you bet, you're going to lose a buck if you lose. You're going to make three

possibly if you win. That's the third level of math. If you just had that one, you keep playing. The fourth level of math is our Martingale strategy that basically says, if you lose $100 on one trade, the next trade, we're going to bet $200. If you lose that $200, the next trade, we're going to bet $400. That's the fourth level of math. And that particularly is what you saw in this trade on Friday that grabbed 12.9% for our customers. So there's four levels of math in just our introductory proof of concept product. And that's why people are jumping on board like crazy.

And frankly, people are upgrading to our concierge program like crazy because they verified those four levels of math. They verified what we've talked about, about liquidity, where you can get your money in and out at any point on any given day. Let me interrupt you on that point. I had three customers talking to me yesterday about this and they were, you know, it's a mixed bag, right? You've got some people that are leaving the capital that they made on last Friday's trade in the account to take larger positions or to grow the account. Some people are saying, hey, that cash flow is very important to me right now. I'm going to scrape my profits. Well, when you're only committing to trading in one day cycle and you know, you're going to be out in cash every single night. You know,

whatever happens in life. Nothing's tied up. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It might have 1% less money on a bad day later at the end of the day, but there's nothing catastrophic is going to happen and you're completely liquid and you can move it into Bitcoin at the end of the day.

Bingo. Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah. Yeah. As I said, the four levels are the key there. When you have four levels of math that work in your favor, again, even over short and long periods of time, you're going to benefit and benefit in a big way.

And so we've had just an outpouring of folks that have come from your show to our brand that are just, you know, ecstatic about what's going on and what's happened. And, you know, most people, about 80% of the people that come to us from you, they're going to start with that introductory product to just proof of concept. All right. this is legit. I want to make sure it's legit. I'll put 10 grand in and take a little bit out and see if that just the liquidity stuff is real. They check those boxes really quickly and the performance has kicked butt. So yeah, people are in a great spot. We love it. I would ask you guys about a couple of stories. Tillman, I want to ask you about this as a miner. I'm putting you on the spot,

but I don't know if you saw Core Scientific signed a 12-year deal with an AI firm, projects 3.5 billion total revenue. It's finally happening, which is that Bitcoin miners are diversifying. Because it's interesting, because when I had Fred Thiel on the show at Marathon, he said, we're almost sick of people calling us miners.

We are data centers, right? He's like, we're data centers. We can help the grid. It doesn't have to be just mining. AI is going to be huge. We are already set up in advance to benefit from that industry. We are data centers. And poor Scientific, who was bankrupt a year ago, right, needed a massive infusion of capital because they played the top of the last bull market poorly. Effectively, they bought a million, bought however many machines at the top of the market at the top price before those and bitcoin price went down 80 or 90 percent tale as old as time right um but uh i mean this is happening now so miners uh this is going to be a whole new narrative for the

government since we're already seeing them say ai is going to boil the oceans and uh you know use more electricity than venezuela but uh here we go well i i'm going to tell you this i've been talking about this for several months now as it pertains to the scarcity of assets um and the the desire to chase infinite hash capabilities like that doesn't work over time. AI will beat crypto as it pertains to the scarcity. The AI is going to serve all of humanity. Crypto serves a subset of humanity. And I just cannot see a universe where we continue to rely on three manufacturers for all of the hash rate that's produced on the planet. And if you look at really some of these, quote, data centers that used to be crypto mining companies, it's a pivot of necessity. It has to happen. Right. And so, you know, who's the highest

paying piper for for computing power and AI is going to be the highest. And let me give you a good example of that. If I can take a farm and I can go into a large manufacturer and I can run the scenarios that I need to run to run the efficiency models needed to give them the trajectory that they're looking for over the next 20 years. What value and what intensity and how fast do I want to go from one manufacturer that I want to use those machines? I want to literally use them for as intense, as short a period of time as possible. You'll capture the largest amount of dollars and fees off of the customer. And those customers will pay it. Why? Because knowledge is power. And if you're in charge of this infinite widget industry that

you're trying to manage, if you don't have data points on every single screw and bolt and nut in your manufacturing facility, you're behind the eight ball if you're comparing yourself to somebody who does have that data. And so data, if you talk about the efficiency in markets that it can provide and the AI functionality behind that, it generates more wealth than any ICOs we could manufacture. I was listening to you guys before. Any meme coins we can pop up on Solana. We need 500,000 more by tomorrow. We are a failed industry. Tomorrow.

We need them all tomorrow. 500,000 by tomorrow. Yeah. I'm actually in support of the Solana migration. You know, use a tool for what its desired nature is. If you want to go to the casino, go to the casino. Just know you're going to the casino. And if you want to go to Circus Circus Casino, go the casino go to circus circus it's a different experience than the wind i went yesterday to look

uh casually at some real estate and maybe i should i think they could be watching i don't know they're very nice people but i showed up and the broker on the other side who was showing it brought her son and i walked into the house and said i would like to look at this house and she said i'd like And the broker on the other side who was showing it brought her son. And I walked into the house and said, I would like to look at this house. And she said, I'd like you to meet my son. He's brand new into crypto. And I'd like you to give him some financial advice. I didn't get a step in the door to even look at this place. My broker was horrified.

And this kid comes down and, you know, just like he he's asking me questions as I'm trying to like walk around. I was like, this house is getting worse and worse by the second. Um, and at the end he's like, so what's your financial advice? I said, I don't give any. And his mom's like, no, no, come on. And I was like, you know, buy Bitcoin. It's easy. Just buy Bitcoin.

They're like, really? That's so boring. I'm not kidding. And she's like nudging him. She's like, what do you tell him what you like? He's like, I'm like, Brett, like he's like i'm like brett brett that's a meme coin on avax i think you know and i'm like okay that's cool um what do you think of that and the mom's like we've been in for like a week and i think we're down like shocked the mom

you know like who's the agent fine and i was like you're gambling i was like it's fine you're asking me for investment advice i'm not going to give it to you but you're gambling. I was like, it's fine. But if you're asking me for investment advice, I'm not going to give it to you. But you're gambling. Like, tell me why you think Brett's going to go up or down. Because my friend said so. Yeah, exactly. Well, here's my- Sorry, I didn't mean to blow it.

Meme point on base, says Drew. My litmus test for people is very simple. I got into Bitcoin not because I thought the price was going to go up. I really didn't. I wanted to understand the network. I wanted to understand the mining functionality. I wanted to see what the hype was, why people were saying this was permissionless and decentralized

and all these buzzwords that were coming out. You see the type of nerd stuff that I have to deal with, Scott, on a daily basis? This is the kind of nerd kind of stuff that I have to deal with, Scott, on a daily basis. This is the kind of nerd. Well, listen, I'll tell you this. I was flattered. I was flattered they were asking me questions. Like, I'm glad. I just like, it's so uncomfortable

to try to give someone financial advice or to like try to steer them in a direction that they're not in yet. Well, don't tell them to buy a computer. It's like Ted Cruz. Tell them to buy a miner and plug it into their garage and they'll learn all they need to know

about the market. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was an eye-opener you know like i was saying like if we're launching 500 000 tokens and i have like random college or high school kids and their moms asking me about meme coins it just starts to be a little bit of a signal you know but yeah this one's for you though andrew Yeah. Wisconsin pension plan likely to invest much more in Bitcoin ETF. Marquette professor says they're just dipping a toe in the water to test the public's reaction.

So those who may have missed it, Wisconsin pension, I think it was like one hundred million dollars. Am I right? Yeah, it was about there. And according to them, they're going to do much more. Somebody that's in charge of their plan, a woman came out and gave a speech and said they are going to do much more in the future. That's just going to happen across the board. There's a lot of rumblings behind the scenes that you're going to see. Not that you're going to see, but sizable sovereign wealth funds are trying to figure out how to scale into Bitcoin. And it's not easy right now. It's not easy. I think they're going to mine. I think they're going to mine. That would make sense. That would make sense. But they're trying. Yeah. How do you get in at a reasonable price without shifting the market in a big way to the upside if you're trying to buy $5.5 billion of Bitcoin, right? It's very difficult to do that. But that stuff is happening. Those conversations are happening and it will happen

over time. But seeing states get into Bitcoin, it's the Larry Fink effect. Again, it has, you know, Tillman talks about this. He talked about this on a stream last week that, you know, people of wealth wait for assets to be de-risked before they get in. And I'll let him talk about that. But but that's what we that's the point that we're at with Bitcoin here and Larry Fink and BlackRock. The cat's out of the bag. The richest people I've ever been exposed to have a very simple philosophy, wealth preservation. And the most effective way to do that is through diversification of assets and buying when everybody money spread out and not just sitting there letting inflation eat it away. And so, you know, if you're talking about the next 10 years of Bitcoin maturity, you're talking about people trying to de-risk the entry. The asset's been de-risked, right? But now it's like, how do I get it? How do I hold it? It's liquid, but it ain't, yeah.

You can't just go YOLO in $100 billion of your, yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, it's going to be interesting. I think it's a step in the right direction. It's kind of like when we saw, you know, countries and nation states saying that they were going to do the same. I think it's a selfish motivation.

And I think, you know, it's a risk on assets. So whoever is willing to teach that playbook, sailors willing to teach that playbook. I mean, he did it in microtransactions with minimal fees, you know, by being, I think, the taker on, you know, tons of transactions and slowly buying. I mean, he laid that out from day one. He taught Elon Musk how to do it for Tesla. So there's a way to get a lot of money in. He's not doing it in one shot. Yeah, well, there's a big difference between buying $800 billion of Bitcoin and buying $8 billion of Bitcoin. Big difference in that particular transaction.

That should be a show, Scott, because I'd be interested in hearing about how they did. I know dollar cost averaging at the core is what they did but how they execute it with automation that'd be a great question because that's i think it was yeah i think it was automated i think i don't remember this was you know august of 2020 or whatever it was but he was saying you know i think it was thousands and thousands of smaller transactions that didn't rock the market at all nobody nobody's ever seen his moves, right? They always joke that he buys the top on average,

but really his moves have been exceptionally hidden and he's managed to get into many billions of dollars worth. Well, because they happen, his moves happen and he announces them after they've effectively happened, right? So you're right, whether it's programmatic or automated or whatever it happens to be, you know, he's executed it on a sort of maestro type level. So speaking of maestros, thearchpublic.com, that's what we call. Well, that's what I affectionately call Tillman as it relates to our strategies, because he's the brains behind them.

I kind of call him the maestro. He will at times when we have a day like Friday, he'll call me kind of yelling into the phone, you know, singing a maestro song, which, you know, kudos to him. You know, a bit of whiskey. Yeah, that's right. I'm sorry. Those are all exit plans. I've seen it in a very nice red robe. That's right. We don't need to make good radio. We're already talking about good stuff, guys.

There's no reason to fabricate the truth. There's no robes. No maestros. There's just a lot of hard work and excitement. I do call and scream in the phone, but it's out of, you know, listen, when you, I don't know how many iterations we've done of the gap tweaking things left and right, but it's a very rewarding endeavor. That's what I can say.

Putting your hand to something and working incredibly hard in a competitive environment that's a zero-sum game and being victorious, that's something you should celebrate. At least tell us we can celebrate for at least one day. Man who plays upper echelon level of football enjoys winning. Oh, exactly. There's that. Texas football, enjoys winning. Oh, exactly. There's that one. Texas football star likes winning. Just talking. What were you going to say, Andrew?

Well, next time we come on, we'll talk about our relationship with our institutional execution broker and what that means for our customers so for example on on on friday um you know the the trade that was taken on behalf of our customers you know if the block trade was what how many contracts was it uh tillman what was the number that was taken i probably shouldn't talk about contract totals on on the live but it was a lot of contracts we've got a lot of customers trading it right now and uh it's it's it's a it's, we're sending in institutional blocks. The, the relationship is between a trade station and the execution partner, and that's how they're able to settle their fees in your trade station account. And that's actually, so the way it works is, is that trade station has institutional block order partnerships. Those institutional

block order partners can Those institutional block order partners can execute on your behalf. You can become a customer of theirs or you can execute the software on your hard drive yourself. Totally up to you. It's user driven. But if you choose to go with an execution partner, instead of executing inside of your account, you're included in a block, an institutional block block and that institutional block allows you uh better fill prices in most cases and some advantages to being in the institutional side versus the retail side um but also fund in your pocket for yeah well it just makes sense it just makes sense that if you're in a a block trade as an example, it has 450 contracts in it, and you're

the guy trying to get executed with four contracts, which number is the CME going to execute first? We don't know the answer to that, right? So it makes sense. Well, to be honest with you, it's a, when you're managing a piece of automation locally, if the point of this is to remove the emotion for people who can't keep themselves disciplined against that emotional swing. If you're not a professional trader and you're sitting there and the trades are happening on your screen and you're watching it, you're going to ride the roller coaster of emotion because you're sitting there watching it go up and down. The point of this is to not be in front of the computer and not be subject to those swings.

And the only way, in my opinion, to do that prudently is to have someone who's very, very capable sitting in that seat for you that is like a robot. They have strict guidelines and strict instructions to follow. And it's not based upon the emotions of the moment. It's based upon what y'all decided way before the trade took place. So it's a way, it's a safeguard, right? For yourself. Yeah.

Absolutely. All right, guys, I think we did it. Covered it. 12% trade. Tillman's going to send photos of him in his mansion in Tuscany with a sign that says Maestro. And a smoking jacket on the roof. Drinking a nice Chianti. I have a gout drink.

I'm alcohol free over here, Scott. The gout is so painful. Grape juice. Whatever you drink. I don't know. An O'Doul's. Nice. No beer. whatever man uh grape juice whatever you drink i don't know what you guys uh oh duels it's hennigans that's what it is hennigans you know if we want to make another seinfeld reference it's hennigans

we did have the maestro all right guys that's all we got and uh once again guys if you see it down in the description the round table rtb.io check out that i'm going to go over there and uh respond to you guys comments now before i get on spaces and andrew tillman you guys are good we're going to do a spaces together on friday as well so awesome cool get ready someone's like really thank you all right all right guys i'll see you soon enjoy the cigar. Bye.