The Wonder of Stevie - A Conversation between Stevie Wonder, Barack Obama and Wesley Morris

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

In this bonus episode, Wesley sits down with Stevie Wonder and a superfan named Barack Obama to discuss the politics of optimism, the power of a love song, and what it feels like to break artistic ground. And the best part? Stevie brought his keyboard.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We all know Stevie Wonder can sing. He's got that perfectly sweet tone, round and full and bright. It can get down and funky and guttural. It's one of the greatest musical voices of all time. It's been that way more or less since Berry Gordy signed him to Motown when he was 11 years old. I was made years old. I was made a lover. Signs sealed, delivered, superstition. We are the world. We all know we can do things with a keyboard that even a great musician hadn't dreamed of.

We all know this man brings the harmonica out and it's a wrap. There is something else, though, that the average person might not know, that I didn't know. And I gotta say, when I was talking to Michelle Obama about As and songs and the key of life, she did try to warn me. I mean, As is like, that's, if you ever talk to Stevie, that's what talking to Stevie is like on the phone.

He's As, it's just like, there are a lot of thoughts happening. He's trying to get it all out at the same time. There's power in it. And then sometimes afterwards you're like, huh? There's just a lot of thought and poetry and metaphor. But it's all like you said before, it's the same thing. He's trying to get us to understand how we are all connected. And I can report to you that Michelle Obama is right. The man can speak.

We spent the last three years making a show about a very special, extremely consequential period in Stevie Wonder's life and career. Starting in 1972, he released five albums in four years, a streak widely considered to be the greatest run any musician has ever had. I think so. Five albums that sent music into new zones. They sold millions of copies and won the top Grammys.

Stevie had to fight Barry Gordy and Motown for the freedom to even make them. And during this streak, he became a husband and a father. He almost died. And at some point, as we were making this show about these albums, it just made sense to hear from the man who envisioned them and executed that vision. So one day last fall in Los Angeles, Stevie Wonder stopped by a studio, had a keyboard all set up, let's go, and spilled some beans. For me, Stevie?

Certain things you don't talk about. Okay. All right, and President Barack Obama. Officially, what the three of us had was a conversation. But to Michelle Obama's point, the dynamic was clear from the beginning. Talking Book is the name of one of the albums in the streak. It also describes the man who made it. And we were all ears. I'm actually wondering if right now you could take us back to maybe being 21, having this experience of divine inspiration. And when you think of 72, 1972,

what comes up for you when you were figuring out how to express yourself differently? Well, that started in 71. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So, prior to me turning 21, I had decided that I wanted to get rid of all the agreements and contracts that I had. Barry had given me a birthday party, a celebration, sort of a dinner he had before.

It was beautiful. And he had just received a letter, me disavowing all my contracts, my agreements and everything. He says, you know, well, you can tell me what's going on. It's ridiculous. And I just said, well, you can tell me what's going on. It's ridiculous. And I just said, look, I want to do something different. Obviously, because I'm going to be 21, we have to renegotiate and figure out how and what we're going to do. And I have these ideas in my mind, even though I had done at that point, you know, where I'm coming from, which was sort of like, again, you know, a reflection of my desire to do something different.

And it was the start of something different and the end of something familiar. Where I'm Coming From was released in 1971, and you can hear the essential musical and vocal ideas that would bloom less than a year later on music of my mind. You also can feel a departure from old signature Motown conventions and a shift somewhere else, somewhere more personal. It's both a goodbye and a hello. From that album that Sarita and myself had co-written, we had I Never Dream You Leave in Summer. Yes. We did If You Really Love Me. In 1970, I had done a Flip Wilson's show.

On that show, I did If You Really Love Me. And so after myself and Sarita had gone on a honeymoon, we came back and we were watching the show. And then I got this call from Smokey. Smokey as in Smokey Robinson. Not only was Smokey a chart-topping singer and songwriter, he was Berry Gordy's best friend and Motown's vice president at the time. Who said, hey man, how you doing? Good, good, good. You know, oh yeah, okay, okay. So man,

it was ridiculous, ridiculous that you did this new song when you got all the hits. You're doing this song. We don't even know nothing about it. That is a perfect Smokey Robinson impersonation. Like you're ridiculous. You know, what are you thinking about? Amazingly, the song, If You Really Love Me, it went to number nine on the Billboard charts in 71. It reached the top 10.

All the money that had accumulated in the trust fund that I had, I got it out and I used the money to record music. Well, can I ask a question? Because I feel like one of the things that is happening here is you are essentially emancipating yourself to make this art. And I think that the thing that we as listeners, you know, you were there, Mr. President, at the time, having this experience, and then those of us who came later

began to realize that you had embarked on something extremely special and very rare. And I guess what the two of us are wondering is, when did it begin to feel different to you? When did you realize that this period, that you had entered some different realm creatively? I never thought of it like that. I never thought of it like that.

I felt that, and I still feel this way, that God is working through me. God has given me these songs, these ideas, these feelings. And so it's about what are you gonna do with it? Part of what I hear you say in Stevie is that that phase of you turning 21, renegotiating, of you turning 21, renegotiating, and then starting to unload all this amazing music

of your mind, that it felt natural to you. And the creative process at your level is something that very few of us touch, so I don't claim to understand it. But as a listener, and I'd mentioned this to Wesley earlier, it did feel different. You've got, you know, My Sherry Amore, or If You Really Love Me. Those felt like traditional love songs, romance, top 40.

traditional love songs, romance, top 40. And it did feel like something was brewing inside you that you then transmitted the world with Music of My Mind and then Talking Book, Intervisions and Fulfillingness and then Songs of the Key of Life, where there's this explosion of sound and sentiment and spirit that felt new. Now it may not have felt new to you because it had always been

in there, but as a 10, 11, 12, 13 year old, 14 year old boy sitting in my room listening to it, it felt as if it was capturing how I wanted the world to be, how Black folks wanted to be seen, how America needed to reach for something deeper and something higher. For those of us who were blown away by it, for those of us who were moved by it,

it changed the culture in a way that was empowering and made people, I think, feel something new and different. I just wanted to ask a question about the perception to the work. Did you ever feel like the critics, for instance, fully engaged with the work? Not that you were making the music for critics, but did you feel that you had gotten the sort of credit respect that the music you were making warranted? You know, obviously, I can't tell you that. Certain things that were said, you know,

made me feel some kind of way. Like what? I'm sorry they feel that way or they don't, made me feel some kind of way. Like what? I'm sorry they feel that way or they don't know what they're talking about or whatever. When I had done Superstition, I decided to go and do the Apollo with my new group, my new musicians and stuff, Wonderlove.

And I had the Clavinet and all this stuff set up and you know, there was some people say, hey man, come on home, come on home, because this is really what you're doing right now. Really. Come on, man. Come on. There was a degree of skepticism that you were feeling from people toward you in the music. I mean, I just felt that they didn't know it. I mean, what is this thing called the synthesizer? Whatever. Oh, sure.

Whatever, you know. Whatever, yeah. So for me, I was going through discovery and I was sharing my discoveries with people. It was exciting for me to play the Moog synthesizer. It was exciting for me to meet Bob Mangalof and Malcolm Sesso. It was exciting to be able to make the sounds that I was hearing in my mind. It was exciting.

Bob and Malcolm? They were the experimental electronic musical duo that Stevie reached out to, to help bring the music in his head out into the world. They worked with an enormous synthesizer called Tonto and will go on to collaborate with Stevie on his next four albums. But I think that also is what the president is talking about in terms of that hearing something new and different because you had discovered this piece of equipment, this like entity named Tonto. And correct me if I'm wrong,

but that feels like the beginning of something new too. I was just so impressed with it. I think even back before in 70, you know, Marvin was working on what's going on, that whole thing. And Motown had in its engineering area downstairs in the basement this thing called the Moog Synthesizer. And I, you know, touch that, well, you can only play one note at a time.

Yeah, but listen to it. Ooh, hey. And I was just curious. And so I went into various places and I found the Moog synthesizer, but then I saw the ARP synthesizer, which is a small version, a portable version when you think of it. And I was able to play it. And the first time I used it on a song, I remember it was you and I. Those voices that do,

all that stuff like that in the beginning. Stevie's been sitting behind a keyboard this whole time, but it's not a prop, it's an appendage. This is not the only time he uses the keyboard to express an idea. It actually happens quite a lot. He... So... Keep going.

No, you good. You good. But it does feel like, and you can tell me if I'm wrong here, but at 21, you've renegotiated your contract. You are saying to yourself, I'm my own man now, and I'm going to go out and explore, and experiment, and take some risks, and try some things that under the old structure I might not have been able to do because they're a little riskier and I'm going to try some sounds that maybe folks aren't used to.

And that process of exploration and risk taking takes you to a different place and you then build on it. And the thing is, Stevie, I mean, part of what's fascinating to me is, even to this day, nobody really sounds like you. Mm-hmm. It was risky because I remember going, you know, because obviously we did some shopping around and playing some stuff that I had recorded and went to all the various companies from Atlantic to CBS, to, you know, we went everywhere. We played the songs and they said,

okay, that's nice, that's okay. But we want that, you know, science still delivers. We want that, you know, what's up. You know, cause this is great, but it's, you know, it's almost like it's experimental. Right. Right. Plus the songs are getting longer too, right? I mean, they're not like the two and a half minute, right? Pop song that you can just drop on and you know, you're growling and some of them can't hear the having you around to seven minutes

So you have this like You have this like But I just wanna live it's they love over what she is And all the things she wants to be she needs to leave behind But is that really in her mind? And all the things she wants to be, she needs to leave behind. But very well, I believe I know you very well. Wish that you knew me too very well And I think I can deal with everything going through your head Very well You know that

Dun dun dun Oh oh oh oh Dun dun Very well Things gonna do you stupid but anyway we go through all that okay okay i'm playing this for people it's okay okay when is it gonna end you know it's nice when is's gonna stop and it's like... Yeah, there's a whole other side of the song. When the winter came, when the winter came you were not around. Now the summer's gone, our life cannot be fun. Where were you when I needed you last winter, my love? And you know, so it's like... Right, so they're listening to it and... Okay.

I'm picturing some guys, maybe they weren't wearing suits at that point, but they're basically suits. Let's get to the thing. Let's get to the thing, you dig? You dig, man? And was there a part of you that started worrying that like, man, I don't know, maybe I'm going out too far on the plank here and I need to walk it back. You weren't worried about it.

Because in actuality, I think all the time, I wanted to be at Motown. Right. I wanted to be with the person that, you know, I met when I was 11 years old. I wanted to be with the people that just showed me love. And even thinking about it now, it's emotional because, okay, we have, you know, Barry's 94,

but I remember clearly I was 11, so he was maybe like, maybe 30 something away with it. 32, 33, somewhere. Yeah. And so to then think about the people that I met in the 70s, early 70s, the companies I went to. And they were all good people, but they just could not relate, honestly.

Could not relate. And I just said, let me go and see what we can figure out. And fortunately, I had met an attorney, the late Johannan Vigoda, who negotiated a contract that was, you know, what groundbreaking, whatever you want to say. And I remember I said to him, look, I do the music, you do the contract. That's going to work. But the point is he got it. Right. And even now when I think of me playing you and I, I sometimes cry about it because I

remember when we were doing all this, when we worked on Living for the City, and the parts that Bob and Malcolm put together, the middle part of him getting the truck, and it was supposed to be a bus full of the truck. The whole interlude. Yeah, right. It's the whole thing. Yeah, the whole interlude. Yeah, right, and so that whole thing. Let me ask you this, though. So, because you're saying, you just describe,

you're writing seven minute songs, you've got songs that are turning into other songs, you've got, you, you know, saying some words that, you know, even though you kind of muffle them that hadn't been really, you know, heard. Stevie, you were cursing on Motown records. You're cursing on Motown records. Cursing on a Motown record.

You know, you were doing some stuff. You're writing about social issues. So you're taking some risks. You must have felt pretty good then when Talking Book and Intervisions, when those songs pop and it turns out that the studio folks who had been worried about it didn't know what they were talking about and you got universal affirmation and acclaim. So when you think back to that moment, you may not have been worried about it in the sense that

you were, you know, you're just expressing what you were feeling and hearing and these new instruments you're playing with. But take us back to that moment when suddenly all the folks who had been questioning it turn around and say, oh, turns out America likes this. I also think, sorry, Stevie, I just wanted, did going out with the Stones also help with this thing that the president's asking about too? Because that tour in 72 just seemed like a, like a very important moment for you too.

That experience with the Stones, because I was on the Stones tour, those two days that I had off, I, you know, wrote those songs, and I think it was just fun. It was fun working with the Stones was different because obviously the Stones, that time is crazy, people were screaming, going crazy, all that. But Playboy Mansion. But you know, but...

Stevie. Certain things you don't talk about. Okay. All right. You know what I'm saying? But nothing Yeah. Stevie. Certain things you don't talk about. Okay. All right. That was nothing, but nothing happened. I believe you. There were a wisp of thoughts, but you know. But did it ever feel like there was a risk to you on that tour? I guess I'm asking, you're playing with an integrated band.

You are a black man, playing in front of these large white audiences, coming for rock and roll for what they think is gonna be a straight rock and roll show. And you, you know, to my mind, we're proving that rock and roll... You were taking back the sort of the history of the art form, essentially. But did you ever feel like there was a risk to you guys while you were out there? I didn't. You never did?

And we didn't because we were having fun within our own situations. You know, meaning my group and my singers, we were having fun. And I was writing music. And you know, we were just doing what we did. I mean, we know, we knew the places that we were going. We knew the energy. But it was like, look, we're here to do what we're going to do, and we're going to burn it up.

We're going to burn it up. And you won them over. In the same way that you won over a Stones audience that might have not expected to hear you, somebody who'd been known as a Motine artist, you now come out with, let's say the first mega hit, Talking Book. At that moment, do you feel to yourself vindicated? Do you feel to yourself, oh, I'm onto something? Or do you just think, you know what,

I knew all the time that this was good this was this was meaningful and so I'm just gonna keep on doing what I'm doing yeah the latter is what I felt yeah it's like a song you know it's like you know when you hear Beyonce's song, you know, way back when she started off, you hear it now. When you hear Sam Cooke's song way back then, you hear it now. You'll send me, it's always going to sound good. And even though she did a far better version of the song that I wrote myself, Morris Brosnack, Clarence Paul,

but when you hear Aretha sing, till you come back to me, it's going to sound good all the time. Just forget about it. When you hear Frank Sinatra sing a certain song, you know, Fly Me to the Moon, it's going to sound great, because it's just great. And I think that, for me, I won't necessarily say, well, that's a great song that I did. I'll say it's a blessing that I was given this song.

But you felt confident in the path that you had taken, even though you were so young and there were some folks who were questioning you. Yeah. I mean, I just was not, again, I was not in that negative place. Doing the whole deal of inner visions was just really exciting. Doing Golden Lady, let me tell you about Golden Lady. I would always be singing. I had a point. And old little lady, old little lady. And it's like old little lady. What do you say old little lady?

Can you say golden lady or something? Come on, old little lady. Was that the original lyric? You had to change that? Well, I'm glad we changed that. You know, I think when that came out, I'm probably like 12 or something. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Golden Lady or something? Come on, Old Little Lady. Was that the original lyric? You had to change that?

Well, I'm glad we changed that. You know, I think when that came out, I'm probably like 12 or 13 or something. I'm just starting to get some big crushes on girls, you know. And I remember putting on the headphones and just listening to Golden Lady. And I'd imagine that I would be like serenading, you know. Did you sing my song? Oh, absolutely. Oh, man. No, but I never did it in front of the girl because I was, yeah, I didn't have that kind

of courage. I wasn't, but I'd imagine myself, I was thinking if I could sing like that to her, then that would be it. You know, that I'd seal the deal. I recorded Golden Lady at Record Plant and there was a girl I had a crush on. You know? And I was, girl I had a crush on. And I was single, I wasn't married anymore, but I had some brands, some things. And this one person, I just, you know.

And that's when I started singing, golden lady, golden lady, I knew that. And it was at Record Plant. Take me right away. All right. And I think I wrote the words, the verse and stuff then like, looking in your eyes, kind of every night, closing my eyes, waiting for surprise To see the heaven in your eyes is not so far I'm not afraid to try and go it To know the love and beauty ain't never long before

I'll live up to your wish, your wish And golden lady, golden lady, I'd like to go there. Hey guys, it's Smokey Robinson and today we're going to talk about one of my favorite people in the world, my brother Stevie Wonder. favorite people in the world, my brother Stevie Wonder. I've had a lot of wonderful times with Stevie, you know, we've written some music together, you know, when we go places in the world, they all want to hear Tears of a Clown and thanks to Stevie, that song came to be. We used to have annual Christmas parties at Hitsville and all the artists made sure that they were not on the road during that time if possible, because everybody wanted to come to the Christmas party

because we had a great time at all those parties. So this particular year, Stevie comes in and he's got this tape with him. He say, Smoke, I got a tape here with some music on it that I've recorded. So I took it from him and I took it home. And the first thing that I heard when. So I took it from him and I took it home and the first thing that I heard when I put the tape on was...

Bum, bum, bum, ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. If you've ever gone to the circus in your life you know that that's what they play. Bum, bum, bum, ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. So that's where Tears of a Clown came from and Tears of a Clown happens to be one of the biggest songs that I've ever been connected to in my life, all around the world. I don't mean just the United States, I mean, wherever we go in the world, it's the same thing.

People love him, Stevie Wonder. Yeah. Now, Steve and I have been traveling all over the place for years, you know, and you might be a person who does that too. For all you snowbirds out there listening who travel south for the winter and leave your eastern

or midwestern home vacant, hey you can use it. Earn you some cash while you're snowboarding in the south and you come back and you've earned some money and had a good time. And Airbnb's really easy for you to do. AirBnB.com slash host. I just want to ask about what it would mean for you to be making love songs. And... Where are you going with this, man? Wait a minute, I'm trying to get to my stand. Sorry, sorry. I mean, Steve is like, wait, wait, wait. Where are you going?

I just wanna know... Why are you getting in his business? Well, because he wrote a lot of love songs. That's a love song. He's in love. That are responsible for a lot of other people. Say there are a lot of love songs that are responsible for a lot of other people. Say there are a lot of children out there. You made music that made people want to be with other people.

The real question is, Stevie, I'm just wondering about what goes into writing a love song for you. I mean, I think that there is, you've written so many different kinds of love songs. I think you've written them from different points of view. And I also think that it takes a lot for, you know, it sounds like a silly thing to say, but it means a lot to me to think about this. But I think it's, it is not an easy thing for a black American to simply write a love song.

I think that there is a kind of political act in that choice sometimes. And I hear that struggle sometimes in your music, and I'm wondering if I'm hearing it correctly. So, as a black man, I have always felt good about love and loving someone, and being in love, and writing songs about love and loving someone and being in love and writing songs about love. And I wanted everyone to relate to just how important love is.

And so when we can really connect to love and we can watch the news and we can hear about, because the news will say this person's white, whatever, whatever, okay. But when you hear about, you know, little babies, whether they be black, white, brown, you know, whatever color they might be, being burned up in a fire, it's going to hurt you. It doesn't matter what it is. That's when you really love. When you really love, then that's the focus of where you are. And so all the things that are of negativity, you know they exist because you have two spirits on the planet.

One that's positive that can move you forward. One that's negative that will only keep you in the same place for as long as you take yourself to that lower level. Maybe Wesley, I'm going to take your question and mess with it. When you listen to these albums, it does feel like you're alternating. They're seamless, they all blend together. But if I'm remembering correctly,

Living for the City then goes straight into Golden Lady. Yes. Right? So you'll, you have a song that is deeply political in the sense of it is portraying a very specific experience for the African-American community and then suddenly we're both of us are dreaming about our dream girl and you know I guess the question is when you were putting some of these albums together did you feel as if given the moment right you're coming out of the 60s, it's the 70s, civil rights, you know, poverty, et cetera.

Did you feel like, well, man, I've got to make sure that I get enough political stuff in here before I write a love song? Or did you just say to yourself, I'm going to write about what I feel. Sometimes that love that I'm feeling is going to express itself in, why are we mistreating other people the way we are? And sometimes that love is going to express itself in why are we mistreating other people the

way we are and sometimes that love is going to be expressing itself just with this particular lady that you know isn't this nice that she's so special. One of the things that I'm nostalgic about when we started talking about this is these were all albums. And when, you know, I'm 12, 13, one of these albums came out, and I still remember, I'm going to the record store, I bought it, and I'm bringing it home, and I'm peeling back that cellophane, and you're opening it up, and you're taking the line of notesane and you're opening it up and you're taking the liner notes And you're reading them and all that stuff that whole me, you know, and me feeling the Braille

You know and at the store And you know, I got this little plastic turntable and I'm putting it on there and and and I got these little riggedy headphones so my Grandparents aren't mad because I'm playing it loud. But it was an event where you could capture all these different feelings and emotions that were going on in one meal. And so, on Songs of the Key of Life, this is a very practical question. Did somebody just say to you, why don't we release this as two albums? And then we will space it out for a year and make more money and do more stuff and do more tours.

There was none of that. Well, the reason I'm asking is, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about the concept of an album. You're producing so much music at this point. Did you ever kind of say, you know what, I'm going to hold this back? Or are you saying, you know what, this is everything that I'm feeling. I want to make sure that when people hear, when they get this experience, I want them to get all of this.

Yes. That's how you were feeling about it. Yes, I mean, from the whole thing of, you know, we bring in this, you know, tape recorder home, you know, to the hotel, because Yolanda, you know, we're all at the hotel. So it was Aisha. My son, Kada, was not born yet,

but it was time for her to go to bed. So we had the recorder on, and she's talking splashing and playing and everything, and Yolanda's saying, come on, come on, come on. The moment Stevie's talking about is something you've almost certainly already heard. Many times, in fact. It's one of the most famous bathtub scenes

in any work of American culture. It's the bath that Stevie and Yolanda give Aisha in the closing minutes of Isn't She Lovely. It was crazy. So that was just, that again was an experience in my life. My daughter, my significant other, Yolanda, our child, The experience, all of it, was captured. It was magical. And so I recorded it, and then we put it on the music. Now, there was a song that I had written before called Aisha's IKEA, which is sort of like a Brazilian kind of feel

song. I've never released it. Well, at some point. Maybe you come in, Mr. President, you check some of the stuff out. See what you think. I might do that. Because I got some stuff in there.

Oh, a little treasure trove. I should, you know, everyone wants me to release some of the stuff that I didn't put on songs in the Key of Life. So when we did music to that, Aisha's like, yeah, I did it as a demo. I never finished all the words,

but I believed that our child was gonna be a girl. Yolanda felt it was gonna be a boy. I said, I'm telling you, it's gonna be a girl. It's gonna be a boy. Never hear a boy. Okay. As it turned, I started playing the song on the thing like, Everything loaded, everything loaded, everything shipped for us, just in less than one minute.

With the various things that I did in that project. And obviously... You just felt like they all fit together. I just did. You're listening to the wonder of Stevie from Pineapple Street Studios, Higher Ground Audio and Audible. And do you want to hear more? There's a very special bonus episode only on Audible,

featuring me, Wesley Morris, and former President Barack Obama in an enlightening conversation with Stevie Wonder himself. Visit audible.ca slash wonder to listen now. I just would like in closing, think about what it means for you, for us, the president, me, everybody listening, to be an optimist at this moment. Would you consider yourself an optimist? And what does that mean to you? Well, for me, me being an optimist doesn't mean that I don't think tragedies won't happen. Okay? Because I think part of growing is understanding pain as well as joy.

You know, I was born shortly after that. I'm blind. My mother went through the different things. And so my experience that was deep, because my mother was crying and she was crying, crying. Every night she crying, oh God, why? Oh, it was like, so I remember when I said, mama, you shouldn't cry, you're making my head hurt.

And I said, maybe God has something for me that's bigger than all of this. And so history proved that true. And he was right. Right. I will say this, your version of optimism that is not blind to pain and tragedy and history, that is not blind to pain and tragedy and history,

but that shows us what's possible. That gave me hope, gave Michelle hope, gave a lot of people hope. And so it turns out that, you know, that spirit through your music has carried forward and is still doing its work. Our focus has to be about what is going to be the best thing for humankind. Now, if you're selfish and you don't care, may you perish. If you're not selfish and you want to do something for the good of everyone and your ego's not tied to it, then we will be okay. Stevie, that sounds like they won't go when I go.

Well actually, it's true that all the negative, all the things that people, all that stuff that they do, they won't go when I go. I plan to go to a higher ground. That's a good place to end. Stevie. Stevie Wonder. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you.

Love you. Love you, too. Thank you, both. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Love you. Love you, too. Thank you both. Thank you both. Thank you both. All right. And we got Mo. That's a wrap. Okay.

Except we weren't quite wrapped. Because I had this memory of neither of us going anywhere. I didn't want to move, neither did President Obama. I think because it felt so normal, so much like having lunch with one of your uncles, like a favorite uncle you never get to see but who's so full of stories that you just kind of sit there and listen to them soar out of his mouth. We wanted to memorialize the occasion by just remaining quiet. Having said that, it also occurs to me that this holy memory of awe and stillness also

might have just been three people holding to record what they call room tone. And yet, I'll never forget the tone of that room. You can't understand how it could fit two of the greatest humans this country has ever produced. And yet, here they both were, cramped in silence, that felt poetically right to me. One man helping make the other one believe his dreams were worth having. Fulfilling this is first finale,

taking in fulfilling this is second. This has been a higher ground and audible original. The wonder of Stevie's produced by Pineapple Street Studios, Higher Ground Audio, and Audible. Our senior producer is Josh Gwynn. Producer is Janelle Anderson. Associate producer is Mary Alexa Kavanagh. Senior managing producer is Asha Saluja. Executive editor is Joel Lovell.

Archival producer is Justine Damm. Fact checker is Jane Drinkard. Head of sound and engineering is Raj Makhija. Senior audio engineers are Davy Sumner, Pedro Valvera, and Marina Pais. Assistant audio engineers are Jade Brooks and Sharon Bardalas. Mixed and mastered by Davy Sumner and Raj Makhija. Additional engineering by Jason Richards, Scott Gilman,

Javier Martinez, Lian Doe, Andrew Eepen, and Roy Baum. Score and sound design by Josh Gwynn and Raj Makhija. Original score performed by Carless Music and Raj Makhija. Additional music provided by Epidemic Sound. Horns by Sundy by Odi Emanuel and Luis Alves. Hosted and executive produced by Wesley Morris. Higher ground executive producers are Wesley Morris, higher ground executive producers are Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Kareem Gilliard Fisher,

Dan Fearman, and Mukta Mohan. Creative executive for higher ground is Janae Marable. Executive producers for Pineapple Street Studios are Jenna Weiss Berman and Max Linsky. Audible executive producers are Kate Navin and Nick D'Angelo. The Wonder of Stevie is also executive produced by Amir Kwestlove-Thompson, Anna Holmes, and Stevie Wonder. Special thanks to John Asante, Dean Bakay, Brittany Payne Benjamin, Leela Day, Sam Dolnick, Hailey Ewing, Kevin Garletts, Amos Jackson, Rob Light, Alexis Moore, Joe Paulson, Nina Shaw, Chris Sampson, Eric Spiegelman, and Zara Zulman. Recorded at different firm, patches, The Hobby Shop, Higher Ground, and Pineapple Street

Studios. Head of Creative Development at Audible is Kate Navin. Chief Content Officer is Rachel Giazza. Copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Sound Recording Copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. I'm going to speak for the many people involved in the making of this series and say that being able to spend this much time thinking about and listening to the music of Stevie Wonder,

it has been one of the high points of our lives. So thank you Stevie, on all that unreleased stuff. I'm going to need some time and I'm going need to bring my wife, because if she finds out that I went to your studio and heard music that she had not had a chance to hear, she would be mad at me. I know.