The World This Hour - The World This Hour for 2025/05/04 at 07:00 EDT

Episode Date: May 4, 2025

The World This Hour for 2025/05/04 at 07:00 EDT

In the summer of 2019, Scott Payne wanted to join a white supremacist group called The Base. But Scott wasn't a neo-Nazi or a right-wing extremist. He was an FBI agent. They hit me back and said, we'd like to have you. And of course I said yes. I'm Kathleen Goltar and this week on Crime Story, Scott takes me into his 28-year career as an undercover operative. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts. So suggest that they've got some good chops on the doorstep. So there's a strong pool there. Of course, Canada has some amazing municipal politicians, some phenomenal provincial politicians who might be interested in throwing their hat in. There are also labor leaders of all levels who would have a strong interest, I think,

and could be really, really excellent leaders. So those are some of the types of people I think the NDP should be looking to and really, hopefully, getting a really strong and broad field of candidates so the party can have some of these discussions in a really robust way. David, as a closing word, as you hear Jordan is quite right, it's very early to be asking this question, but are there any names floating around that you think might step up to plate for the NDP leadership? And what qualities do you think they'll be looking for in this next leader? Well, I think it's very wide open.

And we saw after the defeat or the bad result for the NDP in 2000, the bad result of the NDP in 1993, the leadership race actually produced leaders that weren't in the caucus, right? They were outside of the caucus. So I think there's going to be an interesting race in the sense that there's going to be some very interesting outsiders and we have no idea who they are, but they're going to be pretty interesting. And some of them could come from the working class, right?

Some of them could be workers or union leaders. But there might also be some people from the caucus. It's pretty rare to have a leadership race in Canada where at least there's nobody from the kind of caucus that the leader will take over that puts their name forward. So there's a lot of very competent people in the caucus. Anybody could do it. Somebody like Heather MacPherson, though, coming from the West, having a Westerner. And Albertan being the leader, that's kind of interesting. Having an Indigenous woman like Lea Gazan from Winnipeg, another Westerner,

very interesting as well. Or somebody like Jenny Kwan out in Vancouver, it's been a while since the NDP's had a federal NDP leader from BC. So maybe this is a time that the West, you know, takes its turn having a leader. It's been a while since the West had a leader. So those are three names. And also though I'm looking for some wild cards here that we have no idea who they are and that's gonna be very interesting. People will come out of the woodwork that will basically have never could even imagine come out and possibly could win. And that's exactly what happened with a guy like Jack Layton. He kind of came out of nowhere but he ended up being the winner.

As a closing thought, certainly I imagine we'll convene again when one of those wild cards emerges, but David and Jordan, as a final thought briefly, what do you think Jagmeet Singh's legacy as NDP leader will be as he leaves. David, I'll start with you. Well, I mean, he is the father of dental care and at least some expansion of pharma care, limited as it was, and some expansion of child care. So, yeah, adding to the universality of the welfare state and using the cards he was given

after that, you know, actually two successive minority liberal governments to make gains for Canadians is obviously his legacy on the good side. On the bad side, though, every election he ran in the NDP's vote went down, its seats went down, and seats went down, and to now its lowest point. So, success in the House of Commons, to push for things that Canadians need, but not as much success in electoral arena during elections,

I think would be his legacy. Jordan. Well, I think he's gonna be remembered as a very consequential NDP leader, and I think really primarily he'll be remembered for the benefits that he delivered to Canadians. That's far more than most opposition leaders will ever achieve over the course of their whole career. And I think that that's going to be a lasting legacy. I mean, the party will rebound from this. It's not going anywhere.

If the NDP didn't exist, you would have to invent it in our system because there's always going to be a need for this type of voice and there's always going to be a demand for it, I think, among Canadians. And, you know, it's always interesting to remember, in some sense, Jigmeet is in good company. Tommy Douglas lost the election after he delivered public health care. So voters aren't always transactional on these things. But that doesn't mean that they're not important.

So voters aren't always transactional on these things, but that doesn't mean that they're not important. Jordan and David, what an interesting conversation this has been. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thanks so much. Jordan Likeness is a former NDP senior strategist. David McGrain is a professor of political science at political studies at the University of Saskatchewan. He was also a professor of political science at the University of Saskatchewan.