The Worst Idea Of All Time - 01: Time Dilation

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

It’s the first watch and it’s also the most elastic experience of time Guy Montgomery has ever had while sober. Tim is terrified of what has the pair have signed themselves up to for this season upon now seeing the film. Recounting the plot is a seemingly impossible task. This film releasing in cinemas seems, in retrospect, like an impossible outcome. But the inescapable truth is: Movie come out - something need happen.Get the episode early, ad-free and in video form at twioat.substack.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The worst idea of all time Waste idea of all time A fresh you wait and lose your mind Your boys are back with what you need We have made a huge We have made a huge mistake No No

No No way to wreck your money That's the worst idea of all time We have made We have made a huge mistake No By selecting this movie. And the circumstances and this rule set,

like, I'm real worried about this one, dude. This is very scary. And welcome along to our first analysis of Joker 2, Folly Adieu. I am Guy Montgomery. I've never felt so scared about one of the starts of our season before. And this is Tim Bats. I've never been more worried.

You are listening to, the worst idea of all time and Tim and I have boarded ourselves in to the classic comedy venue in Auckland for a method film review repeated screenings of the sequel to the very successful Todd Phillips film Joker and we've just watched the movie for the first time two hours and 18 minutes so three minutes that we didn't account for And they say that. And they say that. They say that it's two hours and 18 minutes, but I'm not convinced.

Well, this is an interesting concept, Tim, because time can, you know, art has the ability to elasticize time. And a fantastic piece of art can make you completely lose track of time and yourself, and time can move faster or slower than it feels. And conversely, a piece of art that you find challenging or perhaps struggle with, can also have a similar impact. Now, while I don't want to take such a fearful and negative stance as you write out the gate on this conversation, I will say that was some of the most elastic time I have ever lived through in my life.

I don't know what time of day it is. And at no point did we check the cursor. We had no gauge on how long the movie was. or how long the movie was going to go for. And on top of that, the movie was not willing to share any context clues as to what momentum might feel like or what sort of story or conclusion we're building towards. So that was, without a word of a lie, psychedelics aside,

one of the most confusing periods of time I've ever lived through in my life. I quite concurred. this is a film which has no sense of pace whatsoever like not only not only is it not pacey it doesn't know what that is it has no awareness of what sort of the rhythm of a film or a story should be it is genuinely it's just things happening it's genuinely quite remarkable and it's also So I understand your fear because it's really, it's so serious. Yeah. You know, the whole thing.

Hey, hey, guy. Why is so serious? That's for Todd Phillips, that question. It is mind bending. And I honestly do think I was, as soon as we were watching this movie, well, actually, no, there was a sort of animated Looney Tune-esque sequence at the start, which showed promise and immediately even they got that wrong

Oh yeah Yes But you know I am worried for how challenging And gruelling This is going to be I want to share a little bit of the journey Through the first watch

That we just experienced In assessing this film I just want to finish this thought Before you do Which is that at the same time As we sit here now and begin discussing it Yes I do

sincerely believe there is the opportunity to find something interesting if not in the movie at least in ourselves yeah because this is this is truly this is herculean what we are looking down the barrel of is beyond my understanding of what i am capable of it is beyond my comprehension of what is possible for me to do with my brain and body and so while it's going to be hard and I did not enjoy that and that's a worry because that is arguably the best of screening can be

there is going to be something interesting I'm not saying a lot of in your words I'm not saying it's in this episode do you know what I'm saying a lot of I'm saying a lot of Todd Philip's sized ambition

and self-belief and appreciation for that which is beyond just beyond your reach to be able to pull off and that kind of stretch that a real artist must do to further themselves.

Credit to Todd Phillips, because on the evidence that we just saw, at no point did he question himself during the making of this movie. Nor was this a cakewalk for him. But what's even more amazing? As it would seem at no point did the studio have any desire to interfere. it is like it's important that I get this out early on it is unbelievable to me that this movie came out yeah it is incredible that it had a cinema release as is wild truly crazy I don't care about spoiling anything or a sense of direction with this there

is a moment that is my estimate is somewhere within the last half hour of the film where Arthur Flick, aka Joker, is... Fleck, come on. What? Fleck. You call them Flick. I'll get there. Let's give it these people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough. A fair chance to be represented on the podcast. Mr. Fleck is facing his justice at the courthouse. Guy and I are all at sea. There's no clue as to when an ending might come, what it would be. if the makers of the film are aware that you have to end a film at some point

and then suddenly the courthouse explodes because a bomb goes off and to me that was the studio both metaphorically and literally like kicking the doors down to the editing you know the writers room I guess

and they're just going hey guys something need happen movie come out something need happen here the thought that I want to finish that I started moments ago was that I this is going to sound crazy in retrospect but at the first like 20 minutes of this first screening

I was worried that we had picked a too good a movie I really fucking did and on heart I was like oh no we've cooked it by picking a really well made movie and then I was like I get that it's a little outside the box but it is unusual that so many people had such a negative reception to this film

I was turned off immediately. I immediately my spidey sense was tingling right from the animated intro The animated intro My Shadow and me Me and my shadow I liked

They have the classic Warner Brothers sort of Looney Tune style And that is a Pavlovian part of me And they had the iconic sort of ring logo with the Rings around the Warner Brothers logo Emerging from a Central Circle

That is like that Honestly that will always tickle my feet and wore my heart. I was so pumped up. And then the animation style was not exactly to my taste. The self-contained story, honestly, was as, it made as much sense as the entirety of the movie

and basically asked, posed and attempted to answer the same question as we had to then sit through for two hours and 15 minutes, which is devastating. It is honestly... It is such a funny thing to do to make a short film that plays before you. film that is the entire thesis of what you're about to see condensed into like a minute 20 but then as soon as we were into it I at no point did I mistake this for something that I thought was necessarily going to be enjoyable to me or that I would consider to be good my fear was that it is

it is very self-serious and it's it's kind of an unpleasant place to be the movie starts in some sort of um psychiatric ward or or unit and we're spending a lot of time in there and you know in and of itself it's okay it's you know art can challenge and it can make you feel uncomfortable but when it's when it's putting you there and then you don't trust what it's giving you it becomes more uncomfortable yeah and so and then I'm sitting here and I'm thinking well we're going to watch this again tonight like we're going to watch this again basically as soon as you and I stopped talking about watching this we are going to watch this

and so that's got me really worried and then the movie just starts it's honestly it's staggering I was thinking about how we could recount the plot but it would be like trying to tell you

a story that a child tried to tell me it would be the sense of story that I just received is actually unreasonable for me like you know it feels almost like the definition of insanity for me to then be like

I'm going to tell you what I just saw I know so there was something that there was a thought that kept running through my head while I was watching this movie and I said to you there's a thought that keeps running through my head and you said make sure you don't forget it and I said there is no way I could forget this thought

and it seems a little bit cute you know considering our history on this podcast but the Anescapable thought that stayed with me past the first sort of like 20 minutes of the film until the end was just, you're wasting our time. You're wasting our time here. What are we doing?

Who is you? Every potential ticket buying cinema goer. Like, Todd, come on, man. What were you doing? trying to do what was he trying to do it's an interesting question i feel like i've been fucking punked man twice because i've watched the film and twice because we've built this prison around this is so 13 more watches uniquely bad that it will inevitably have people who truly believe as is they're right that this is good i know what you mean there will there will be defenders of this

There are people who will build, like there are film buffs who will build an identity out of defending. It will be sport for them. It will be an intellectual exercise in flexing their muscles to say, no, no, you're incorrect. Joker 2 is a masterpiece. Honestly, I take my hat off to them. I don't. And by all means... You don't get a fucking medal for being contrarian.

Even if it's a really hard... Even if they really believe it? They don't. you don't think anyone believes no one believes no one enjoyed this how do you think this you know like first screening i mean i just trying to it were you going to say how does it rate to the other first screenings we've done no no no no no no i'm not talking about our experience of watching the movie i'm talking about when you make a movie yep which is not so i've made a short film i've not made a movie it is a vulnerable exercise yeah to share it with the world

after and like an unreasonable amount of human work and there are test screenings and there are sort of conversations about what you can change and what you can do and eventually you clear all of those moments and all of those moments individually

are nerve-wracking for the filmmaker and then eventually you play it at a film festival I assume you play it for an audience and the credits role and without anyone saying anything there is an alchemy in a room, there is an energy in the room, much like if you perform stand-up comedy,

as Arthur Fleck was previously want to do. You know, so we are Todd Phillips. We are in a cinema. We have worked on this movie tirelessly for two years. The credits are rolling. What is your guess or understanding of the energy in the room and what is your guess or understanding of the feeling that Todd Phillips has inside of himself?

as he sits in that energy. So we're assuming sort of film festival premier straining first public outing he's in the audience. Yeah. Man my guess

is the energy in the room is not quite as angry as I think you and I are but I think it is as perplexed. I think everyone is just baffled. So here's to perplex people

yeah. leaves wriggle room to persuade or convince them that they've just experienced art i hear what you're saying i think you're sort of confusing a perplexed audience feels like a persuadable audience because they are open to there being additional information to sway them onto a different side of how they feel than where they currently sit i.e this movie stuck the confusion that I think the cinema-going audience felt when seeing this for the first time is, again, how did this come out in this form? It's not a, I'm not perplexed about, like, how to feel about the movie.

I'm perplexed about the movie existing. And that's the confusion in the room. And then, like, you think of a whole room of people. Joker did well, like, critically, commercially. Well, it was celebrated. Can I say inside of the thought exercise we're enjoying, I will say this movie made Joker look fantastic. A movie you have not seen.

A movie I have not seen, but a movie I, in spite of this, have a desire to see, because of this, have a desire to see. The moments of flashback, the sort of fact that this is, I suppose, you know, in a manner of words, a post-credit sequence for the Joker. like the Joker contained all of the action and sort of people making decisions

and acting those moments out and character narrative that led to me watching this which was basically like an act that was cut from the Joker because it was not necessary the Joker to me after watching this

looks fantastic looks like an appealing meal There were moments of flashback They pulled characters who had seen events And we're watching people talk about events That have taken place That sound a lot more interesting Than what I'm now sitting through

Can I say a lot So the first half of the movie We're at the asylum Whatever you want to call it I think it's like the sort of mental facility Within a prison In the 70s in the state The second half of the movie

We're in a courtroom And we're watching the Arthur Fleck's case take place. The state of New York versus Arthur Fleck. I will say when I watched the jury walk into the courtroom, I thought those are the people who I identify with as an audience member for this movie. Having to sit through.

This is jury duty. This is, I'm here under the direction of an entity or something that is bigger than me. Sure. And it is my job, my duty. Civic duty. My civic duty to form an opinion on what I think of what I'm experiencing. And I also, can I say, I worried for them and I felt sorry for them.

And genuinely, I can tell you, it was not for those people. I felt sorry for myself. The vision of myself I saw in them. Not only incumbent upon you to form an opinion, you must pay attention to everything that is about to unfold in a room for the next. x amount of time of your life that's right and keep your eyes open don't let your thoughts wander no going on your phone that's right don't do doodles that's right notes only that's that it is jury duty you're right in this case is hot garbage and i do not care for the outcome

guilty not guilty chuck a fucking couple of forks in my eyes i am they also they also lack control the same way we do where it's like that because in the same way that the movie is going off the rails. The case is going off the rails to the point that there's no sense that anyone in the room has control over when or how this could possibly end. A hundred percent. There's no tension because it's like, well this is tanking.

And also he's a contemptible character who is very predictably getting his beans. Fine. Why are we spending so much time doing this and so much flourish? Let us attempt to explain

what this movie is. No, no, no, no. We must close the thought experiment, which is you've described the energy in the room after the first screening. I now want you to tell me how Todd Phillips feels. Does he regard this as a triumph? How cognizant is he of the challenge he has laid at not just our feet, but the feet of cinema-goers who want to watch this movie, and more than that, want to enjoy it? I have to think that Todd Phillips, he knows that I'm trying to select the right analogy here from my limited knowledge of the world he is playing a game of poker he has drawn a two a three and an eight

off suit in texas hold him there is a full house on the board he's on the river all cards are down and there's four other players still there with him and he's trying to bluff everyone he's got nothing but poker in poker you're not playing the hand you are playing your adversary and I think Todd Phillips knew

what he was up to to an extent he knew I don't I don't think he's done what he wanted to do I will say that but I think he had a sense of the massive risk he was taking I think to your direct question he's in the

room at the premier year it is a vacuum of energy in there like you could hear a pin drop at that role of credits don't tell me he had to start his own clap um he didn't because he's he's not you know he's not that guy

but he's got faith that this room is not the final adjudicator of his art and he thinks that there's a way forward and he thinks that it's you know I fully believe Todd Phillips thought he was on to something with this and it just needed to get out to the world. Has Tom Hooper got to make a movie since Cats?

Not to my knowledge. And I tell you what? The parallels between these two films are there. There is a cosmic kinship between Cats and Joker 2. I've got to crack this in episode 1. Folly Deer? Is that it? Folly, yeah, dear. Sure. Something like that.

It feels It's sort of, it is emblematic of the problem. I'm sure this has been discussed before because this is not exactly current critical analysis of a movie that bombed spectacularly a year, two years ago. But it is emblematic of the deeper problems with this movie, the fact that we have to attempt to pronounce this self-serious title correctly. Yeah. See, this is what I'm talking about. This is the fucking, these are the little clues I have that Todd Phillips is fucking around. you know, Steve Coogan being in the movie

for no reason. Unbelievable disorienting. Steve Coogan is in this, halfway through this movie. Neither of us knew this, by the way. And Guy is one of the biggest Alan Partridge fans of all time, which is a character,

comedy character, long-running comedy characters spanning books, films, TV series radio. Created by, and played by Steve Coogan. And it's Steve Coogan, arrives as a journalist, as a sort of heavy-hitting 60-minute-style current affair

interviewer, and he's landed a public interview as set up by Arthur Fleck's lawyer, played by Catherine Keena, an interview with Arthur Fleck to discuss, I suppose Arthur Fleck's defence, or the defence being put forward on behalf of Arthur Fleck, is that he has split personality disorder or, you know, whatever you want to call it. But basically, and as outlined in the animated short film before it, his shableness. Shadow Self, the Joker, is responsible for the killings. Arthur Fleck is this meek sort of, you know, deeply troubled person who's lived an incredibly hard life.

Steve Coogan fucking puffs his chest out, walks into the middle of the movie. And I honestly, it almost represented the idea of comfort to me. It was like seeing my mum walk into the room in which we're watching the movie. and I thought, oh, thank God you're here, something I can hold on to. And he sits down for his interview with Arthur Fleck and starts speaking. And Steve Coogan is, beyond Alan Partridge, genuinely, an unbelievable actor. And, you know, Ernestripes is an impressionist,

one of the most talented impressionists of a generation. He starts speaking in an American accent. And I thought, that's not my mum. That's not daddy. And obviously he's in a different setting, so that's upsetting. And, but as you pointed out, he is still, it's still in the genre and the family of Partridge because he is playing a journalist. He's a broadcaster.

He's a broadcaster. He was quite self-satisfied. Yes. Bombastic. And he's sort of, and, but it's, it was, it was not the balm, I thought. It was an oasis. It was crazy. It was an oasis?

Yeah. A mirage. A mirage. Okay, great. Good. An oasis is actually there. Would be a balm. A mirage is the idea of an oasis.

Indeed. Importantly, no comfort. The illusion of comfort without getting any. Absolutely no comfort. And more than that, nothing to look forward to for next time. I think it's actually, that's probably quite close to what I understand

the sort of original fabled German version of what a doppelganger is, which is like, you know, hearkening back to the psychological phenomenon of the Uncanny Valley, where you are seeing an entity that is close enough to either yourself, a familiar person or a human form,

but just different enough to know that it isn't quite them, and there is something deeply unsettling about that. So that is what this, that is what Joker 2 is to a movie. And that is what Steve Coogan is, to Steve Coogan in, too this is so so it's kind of like on first glance you're feeling i kind of had it a little bit too it's like is there steve kugan cool steve kugan's here and then by the end of a scene you're going

but already there is no reason to trust that he can bring you know like unless he barges in you know in character goes aha there is no reason to trust that he can do anything that will hold our hand through the movie this is the whole this is the whole thing with the first watch we will we had to hold on to optimism and hope because we will never have that ability that gift again because now all the blanks are filled we know exactly what we're dealing with

like that to your point that you said before we watch this tragically terrifyingly you're correct that was the best it's ever going to be well you know what it's the most potential it's ever had there is a world in which

that is not the best it's going to be because I struggle I struggle to believe that the movie can get worse 13 consecutive times from here I genuinely yeah in the depths of my soul I know what you mean struggle to believe that every sequential viewing yeah is going to be a sponge can only get so wet that's right you can't make it any wet as a maximum saturation yeah and at a certain point, if you pick up the same sopping wet sponge 14 times, one of those

times, you're going to be like, is it just me or is the sponge drier today? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's evaporation, there's the forces of gravity that sort of get the water to coalesce and fall off. Arguments to be made that the sponge is somehow against all the scientific

evidence getting drier. Yes. And so, while yes, or more importantly, your perception of the sponge getting drier can happen. Undoubtedly upsetting that this was as challenging as it was for the first screening. Okay, I'm not here to argue with you about that. But hope springs eternal. It is also telling to me and curious that we have, aside from mentioning Steve Coogan,

not discussed any of the performances. and this movie almost didn't even give me the opportunity to perceive the before I did not. Do you know what? They're good. This is the thing. Honestly, there's the other thing that kept running through my head. My two thoughts were you're wasting everyone's time

and the other thing that I just kept coming back to is two things can be true at once. I think all of these actors did a good job. I think Lady Gaga was fantastic. I thought Joaquin Phoenix was very good. I think Tim Dillon is in this movie in a scene for some reason

he's fine, fine and he's not a presence where it was what often happens with like stand-up comedians who get put in films where it's like that guy's sort of playing in a different medium

to the rest of these movie stars everyone fit everyone was doing well what's in, I don't know that woman's name isn't death to Smoochie who's his... Catherine Keena

she was great Brendan Gleason was he the prison guard that Irish guy could be he's a great actor he was good i man everyone everyone was all good in it i've run the table of emotions

and i do worry at this point in our conversation i've run through all of them to to to despair to this feeling to the that you know like i think where you started the episode i currently am resting which is the the fear of as we remember and maybe this is a lesson to us in the way we talk about this movie is if we talk about what happens in the movie yes it makes me sad okay so maybe so our film reviews of the film shouldn't dwell too much on what's in the film i don't i think if they get too film heavy i do worry that it's going to have a really detrimental impact on our psyche okay

it does present an additional interesting challenge for us as film reviewers tim again i'm not how to argue with you. I agree. However, there is a certain method methodology to it in that both the character and sort of the production of how the story is told Arthur Fleck refuses to meet his maker

for as far longer than you like an outrageous amount of time. There is a refusal of this movie to accept cause and effect that we should see consequence after an action is taken in any appropriate amount of time.

Essentially, we know what's going to happen in this movie from the very start of the movie and then spent a bizarre amount of time driving around other neighbourhoods to arrive back without having learned anything, gained anything. It's honestly... Changed our perspectives, added additional information. We've gone for an aimless drive

for two hours and 18 minutes that has cost someone this has got to be like over $100 million movie wouldn't you say wouldn't you say? Yeah I mean Lady Gaga is in this film She's a co-star

It is It is It is mind bending How Little progress we make From the start It is actually devastating to me

And the fact that There is an animated short Giving you All of the beats Of the movie And that little thing is a minute. Here's what happens. Arthur Fleck is in the psychiatric union of a prison. He meets Harley Queen, Lee, Harley Quinn. Oh, yeah, she's got some additional

stuff in her last name in this one. His court case begins. Let's call it Harley Quinoa. He loses his court case. Some people who are pumped up on the idea of the Joker explode the court he sees Harley Quinn outside of

the court she says you said there's no joker so we're not going to do anything

and he goes back to prison and where we started and he is in a way mercifully

stabbed to death yeah shanked and I say it's merciful because as I understand it there is no world in which they can make another one of these movies and it took

two hours and 15 minutes 18 for them to communicate that to us and now i find myself in the position where i and and there's no fun there's no fun in games there is no comedy which is in Because technically speaking, this movie is a musical. This is technically speaking, this is a jukebox musical. Technically speaking, technically speaking, this is some of the great, this contains music from the greatest musical era that has occurred in human history. This is the 60s and 70s, the golden years, you know? We've got tracks from the carpenters in here, being some by Lady Gaga, who is,

talent of a generation and do we do we is it enough it's not enough that's crazy do you know what kind of fucking cinematic deficit you have to be in to have lady Gaga singing some of the greatest songs ever written

and the whole thing still sucking this much it's well you said something where you said this is not it's not this you said it's not this it's not that it's not a musical this is not a musical nor is it anything

that is what I said to you halfway through this film and it's true and yet we must venture forward and we we cannot trust this instinct we have that this is that we cannot trust what we have said so far because how much do we know this is a drop in the bucket of knowledge that you and i are going to fill up together and so while as i say them i believe in all of the opinions i've shared with you I also know better than to say

these are my opinions yeah they're uninformed what we're going to watch a movie one time and tell you how the movie is no no not us I also

I can't I can't imagine I can't imagine what it is going to feel like to have seen this movie you know like how many times do you live Tim

but one I cannot imagine what sort of people we are going to be when we emerge from this folly adieu chrysalis. The only thing propelling me at this point, and I don't say this with glee. I really appreciate the vulnerability that you've shown, and I think you've just, like, really been very truthful about how you feel while we've been talking, and I really appreciate that. and I'm sorry to have to say that the main thing propelling me forward is just looking forward to watching what's going to happen to you.

As an observer, obviously I'm going through a lot myself, but I can't lie to you. There is a certain amount of excitement I have for seeing how this unfolds with you. As much as I'd love to continue talking with you, Tim, I am very cognizant of the fact that I have to go to work. What work you say?

Tim, I quite simply must watch Joker 2 Folly Adieu at my nearest convenience because that is the only way that I will not be watching Joker 2 Folly Adir anymore. Do you see the situation we find ourselves? I absolutely do. We've got to eat the poison really quickly. We've got to eat it all up. Gobble, gobble, gobble. We've got to eat all the poison before we die.

You've got to get through all the poison before you die.