The Worst Idea Of All Time - 04: Socially Responsible Filmmaking

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Guy and Tim are truly ON ONE. Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber is outted as a common plagiarist. Todd Phillips is recognised as being VERY IMPORTANT to the making of Joker 2. And also, it is Monday! Now imagine this: What if this movie was made for just one person? And what if that person was a certain Canadian physiologist who almost killed himself going on an all meat diet? There truly is a lot to consider when you’ve got a brain full of Joker: Folie à Deux.Support us and unlock this video episode and a bunch of bonus content at twioat.substack.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The worst idea of all time! Worst idea of all time. A fresh way to lose your mind. Your boys are bad with what you need. It's not worse things. Their life are free. The worst idea of all time. That was a great new way to wreck your mind.

What's the worst idea of all time? Good Lord. Welcome everyone to the worst idea of all time. season unknown day two watch four it's a low number it's a surprisingly low number

it's a small number in the scheme of numbers isn't it and as a percentage we're getting you know closer towards the 50% mark but we're at like 24 to even be talking about 50% at this point is aspirational yeah

this is day two screening two What if I told you, Tim, that not long after this conversation, I know. I've got something in mind. Nothing is running through my head, except for the thought that as soon as we stop talking, we somehow have to watch this movie again. It's so nuts, man. Crazy. The movie is Joker 2.

Yeah. Foli adieu. Yeah. Which means, as we learned at the end of our last episode, a shared delusion. Shed by two specifically Yeah Yeah Hey and look at the two of us

Look at us It's a couple of guys Method film reviewing Yeah And we are doing our absolute fucking professional Level best It doesn't look like a lot

I will give you that It looks like two guys Sitting down in different places But we are working our ass off Here to try and get to the bottom We are doing our own form of investigative work to get to the bottom of this guy's not wrong and um there's a lot of ways that you can frame the journey of trying to get to the bottom of what as a starting

point yeah the weight of responsibility is on todd phillips shoulders i think like we've got to get some agreed uh primers going into this okay okay tell me what you're about to say Philip's directed this whole movie all by himself would have been played and co-wrote it with one other person yeah i did notice that the other person and forgive me i'll get it by the end don't worry about it i think your second name was silver scott silver don't worry about it but um todd phillips is a co-writer he is credited second so the overwhelming is we currently sort of talk about film and there is a critique unto itself about whether you know we place an outsized import upon the the director of a film we will park that because we've got to have some agreed upon ground to discuss this movie so let's go with this direct is very important writers are very important Todd Phillips is both he is in a unique position of responsibility over this film so Todd Phillips is very embold important exactly within importantly the context of us spending five human days dedicated to this film

Todd's credit he did not ask this of us correct to our credit I think we either now or soon

will come as close to anyone as watching the movie as Todd had hoped correct I know we can see everything Annabel we can see the screen

we can see that the TV currently says no signal instead of having a beautiful shot of the title screen and everything is happening perfectly as it should. Please continue, guys. Well, I think for this episode of the podcast, having a screen that says no signal in the background is incredibly apropos. I feel depleted of my critical faculties. I feel somewhat.

Tim, can I shock you? I want to tell you something which I genuinely think is going to alarm you. Yeah. It's Monday. That is wild. It is Monday. And yet where I am in the space-time continuum feels so divorced from what a Monday is supposed to represent. It is communicating to me the essence of what it might be to be inside of Arkham Asylum.

I am inching ever closer to being able to perceive this movie as one of the characters, or at least as someone placed on location in the movie. Well, that's the whole intent of this project. Okay, so going back to the first principles, what can we agree on? Todd Phillips is important to the making of the film, and it's Monday. Very good. Both as it stands. Immutable facts.

I think two also. So let's get all of Todd's credits out of the way first so we can move on. Two things, I'll say for him. One, we had a discussion in the middle of a wide-ranging chat while this movie was playing, about the movie mainly. that Todd Phillips probably does deserve some sort of credit for Joaquin Phoenix's... A director deserves shared credit for all of the performances contained inside of a movie. Sure, because he's the director of the performances.

So whether that is like him eliciting the best performances out of an actor or being smart enough to know to get out of the way of talented professionals who can be self-contained, either way, he deserves some praise for that. So well done, mate. The second thing to his... Now, Todd. If you're done receiving your flowers? No, no, no, there's one more.

Keep your arms open because there's more flowers coming. To be fair to him. This is the biggest fence-sitting kind of line call, though. The very end of this movie reveals something, which you, the listener, may know from your travels. Maybe you've seen the movie. Maybe you've heard this online. I did not know this fact.

And it is not made very apparent by the movie. In fact, it took these two gentlemen four watches to see it. But within the universe of Todd Phillips's Joker, the real Joker is the guy who killed Arthur at the end. That's right. Because in very soft focus, after he shanks Arthur Fleck to death in the Arkham Cylum. Ironically, I believe early in one of our episodes I said,

to me, represented the fact that there are no more of these movies to come. Yeah. And I looked at it as some sort of release. matter of fact in the background of the shanking we see the shanker he gives himself the Chelsea smile with the blade afterwards

which is the sort of iconic physical feature of there's lots of interpretations of the Joker but he's always got that kind of that so that's actual Joker according to Todd Phillips we just spent and to our credit

an even bigger waste of time you know what I mean like we've been talking about what a big waste of time this movie is just pause Todd you've now received your flowers

that's all in there bud yeah if you're vulnerable to criticism stop listening now Todd Phillips you could probably skip this one I did have a fantasy of

Batman like Christian Bales Batman romping through like not just the set but legitimately the actual production set of the movie

where is Todd Phillips I must find him He's creating something terrible I think I would have just taken Great satisfaction seeing him pick him up by the lapels What do you think you're doing? I mean listen I don't think you're a million miles off

That there's a billionaire somewhere Very mad About what Todd Phillips did with his money I will give you that Ah man What it is to be alive Can I say something that I also thought Tim This movie is a musical

In the same way That my mum's love life is a musical. Go on. And that if there is a sentence in the wild that sparks a memory of a lyric, she will sing whatever she knows of the song. And if you aren't a chip off the old block, that's a bit of you. I am also vulnerable to this affliction.

It's beautiful. It inserts a lot of joy in the day. It's a nice way to go through a day. You don't have to make a movie that way. You do not have to make a movie about it. Absolutely not. At the end, I also, and this is a concern and a curiosity. but there were many moments

when I think we both empathised with or identified with a feeling bubbling up and being labelled by Arthur Fleck when he's in the courtroom he goes through quite a powerful fantasy when he snaps two he says, I've had enough I've had enough

and we say us too buddy us too later on towards the conclusion the denouement to use the chosen language of the film well very selectively but go on he's trying to talk to he's the explosions happened he's run across town he's at the top of the flight of stairs and he's saying to harley it's we're free we can go anywhere yeah and she's saying no no no and then starts singing and he's begging her to talk yes to stop singing yeah this is a feeling that I've had and this is I feel as though we are throughout the season going to get bogged down in the weeds of what makes music musicals what they are and what makes them interesting. But the musical numbers should be, by all right, something to look forward to.

Yeah. Or at least something to sit back and experience. Aller cats, in a way. That's right. That's right. Tom Hooper's Cats, you can throw a lot of soft tomatoes at the screen, but you still have the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber to look, sir, Andrew. Lloyd Weber to look forward to That's right

And dispersed throughout Wait But Andrew Lloyd Weber Sir Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber Is a lyricist And the lyrics of Katz Are just TS Eliot poems

Wait a minute We've been had So Cats is standing on the work of Who is it? Is it Tim Rice Famous plagiarist Sir

Is that trick to Wait till I tell you about where he got the story for Jesus Christ who to start from. Hold on. Is Andrew Lloyd Webber not involved with, he's not a composer at all? Does he write music? I don't know. Neither do I. I don't know.

The other ones. You put that form with such confidence that decision. I know that the lyrics of cats are T.S. Eliot poems. Oh, yes. But you said that, so, Andrew Lloyd Weber is a lyric. That's his thing is in it I thought he kind of did I thought he wrote the music as well but maybe I'm wrong

it would be hilarious to discover that this man's like two a knight of the round a knight of his majesty's round who was launched to start him off the back of lifting from the Bible and a poet and then getting

someone else to write the music for him and then getting a whole other team to choreograph and perform it the more you say the more it feels like he must be writing the music surely to get that knighthood or you just have a lot of money and you throw out the right places

we digress I wrote down a single note on my notebook for this watch and I keep forgetting it and then it keeps reappearing into my head and the single note I wrote down was socially responsible

filmmaking okay tell me a little bit about what that means for you now and at the time of writing. In the context of writing, the comment down, I think this came after an idea I had,

which I expressed aloud to you, that perhaps this film was made for an audience of one gentleman, and that gentleman was a certain Canadian frog-throated fellow named Dr. Jordan Peterson, PhD. It has somehow taken the snappy wardrobe of Joker, which Dr. Peterson seems so enamored with from the first film, and married it with the hyper-conservatives flirts with the Christian church through all of the hymns that are contained herein.

So he has a narrative shield to be able to enjoy the film through an exploration of light theology and then transpose all of the garbage psychology he believes on top of that. Anything you enjoy it. It also sort of backs up his intense hatred of woman I'm assuming and actually to be fair with him I don't have know enough about Jordan Peterson now I'm making some inferences

but probably based on his audience a interesting considering his career choice distrust of medicalised treatment of mental illness that feels like a Jordan Peterson thing I think that's a weakness that's not a condition

it's just a weakness to someone have It's just like Jordan Peterson to me feels like the kind of guy who likes Lady Gaga but isn't allowed to talk about that fact. And so it's like... She sings in fantastic songs. It's like, I don't know what dirt Jordan Peterson has on Todd Phillips. Maybe Todd Phillips was a client at some point and he's threatened to release the fucking records of their appointments.

I don't know. But I feel like there is great potential in the fact that this was made for Jordan Peterson. And that is socially responsible for making? No, no, no, sorry. So then, okay, so that. Wait, that's an independent thought. This was leading up to, you asked me the context for the note. This is some of the context.

Then. Well, you got a busy little brain. It all happened today. Firing on all cylinders. And then I thought to what Todd Phillips might have tried to do with the first movie is just like kind of make his own interesting take on a superhero movie, right? Make it grounded in like a human character study of what if it, was an actual guy like it could look like this but then i feel like what it got uh swept up in

is um it became a huge icon for my chosen family the mens rights activist community online who really rallied around the totem pole and then uh one possibility is that this was actually fantastic like from a social responsibility point of view the greatest thing that todd phillips could have done which is like take this icon that the worst huge huge beings on earth have adopted and fucking like make them pathetic completely um completely sort of pitiable and and weak and without uh like it's hard to feel empathy by the end of this film for this guy despite the fact that on paper there's a lot of you know sympathy to be had for a guy like him but you watch the movie like this guy sucks they're not yeah he's

We are given no redeeming quality. Todd Phillips says two things. He wastes a fantastic amount of our time going to the movies and money. And then a fantastic amount of energy that we invested in this character by making him terrible and then shanks them. And then invalidates the fact that the first movie got made by in the final frames, out of focus in the background going, and actually, you want to know something real funny?

wasn't even joker see that guy over there you can't even see that's joker probably I guess maybe bye and that's socially responsible filmmaking what do you reckon

what I think the way he laid it out at the end there was absolutely sensational I can't disagree with a single word you said I'm struggling to connect it to the Jordan Paddy

I don't want that both parts to the socially like aggressively wasting everyone's time except Dr. Jordan B. Peterson does not feel like socially responsible filmmaking to me.

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, PhD, is king of the worst people on earth. King of the insales, I reckon. We're lute, we are shedding listeners right now. We've only got one and he's libertarian, so he should be a champion of the marketplace of ideas that I am parading around

at waving my freak flag. It's open day in the marketplace of ideas. It is. A lot of ideas competing. So many, so loudly, so quickly. Oh my God. You're allowed to make a movie for Dr. Jordan B. Peterson PhD and simultaneously know that you're doing a credit for the world.

But I think the argument contained all of your showy flourishes. Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, Ph.D., is such a dummy. You can't achieve both things. But you believe that this movie was an effort to diminish the sort of hero value that the audience of the first movie had put on the central character. It's an effort to say, hey, you guys got it all wrong. And these guys are used to rug pulls because they haven't missed it a lot and some pretty spurious shit coin schemes

over the last few years but this is the first time it's happened to them culturally oh man it's just Tim's kitchen and we're all watching the cooking at the start of the movie Tim and I will say this screening did perk up undeniably I'm sort of I'm surprised at the trajectory

our relationship to this film is taking because I guess, you know, in the scheme of things, it's still early days. We're still green under the collar. And now Samsung's on the screen all of a sudden bouncing around like a 2004 DVD logo. Almost. Yeah. Close again.

For those of you who are listening and not watching on the substack, we are now playing a game in which we point to where we think the Samsung logo will next appear on the screen. Are we, guys? Is that what we're playing? or watching but we're both involved all of that to say I am surprised at where we are with the film right now which I would say is in a pretty not

happy and the word healthy isn't the one I'm reaching for either but certainly we're in a place of cohabitation we are happy to let the film exist and the film it would seem for now is happy to let us exist I'm 100% with where you're at

so somehow cohabitation is the greatest adjective to describe our current relationship with Joker 2. It is. I mean, we're living with it. Yeah, we live with it. And, like, we may live a long time.

At the, like, currently, I don't feel like either one of us is going to die prematurely. No one's thriving. No one's thriving right now. Outside of this, my life's actually going all right.

I'm pretty good, man. But that feels so far away from me. And it literally is right now. And it's important. for you to remember that who are you are you my boss why would you say that

I am but a mere human firewall protecting all the lovely things from you you'll get them back don't worry they're not going anywhere they're safe and safe don't talk like you have power don't talk like you know more

we are in a situation together and we are equals yeah Yeah, that's cool, man We're good Everyone's good We're good

Let's just start Don't worry about us Take a load of worrying about us Everyone used to quit worrying about us Just cut it out If you're worried about us I'm worried about you Yeah, if you're worried about us

I got good news You can take the day off Yeah Because we're doing great We're fucking fine Okay so Things I liked about this movie Which we normally put

in the casing of a thing called our shining light. Yeah. Do you know that's something that I think we might have done from like almost the first episode of the grown-ups two season? Yeah, I think you're right. That's crazy. What a beautiful through line.

To acknowledge the fact that times may get tough, the sort of, you know, a little cell that we put ourselves in maybe getting a little tight. But there's always a little crack of sunlight in there somewhere. Yeah. And do you have one top of mind? Yeah, I actually did write one down. And it's a small moment.

It's a small piece of art department, if I'm being completely honest. When Joker's neighbor is taking the stand, whose name is Miss Dumont, I think she was in the first film. She's on the stand and we get a shot of, I don't know if Arthur's in the foreground, but you get Gaga and And then sort of next to her, there's a lot of out-of-focus extras. And I think we've made our money for a long time now on the hard-working people in the background of frame. And this movie has, I think, taken that knowledge and weaponized it against us. Go on. By using, you know.

I said to remind myself that you're talking about a shining light. Keep going. That's right. By using camera work and lenses and shots, which obscured. a lot of the background action. I don't know if they knew that this treatment from us was coming, that they knew that they were going to be

put into this level of scrutiny. We had a technique to get us through our time and they're like, oh no, you fucking don't. They have put up defences. However, and defenses are quite tall. And it's not even a performance note what my shining light was. It was just something I saw and I thought,

you know, it's emblematic of the rich world that this film successfully builds for the story. to sort of shit the bed in. But next to Harley Quinn, there is, because she's now in the front row of the gallery, she's right behind Arthur's seat.

And next to her, there is a journalist, and he's sitting in a suit, and there is a press badge attached to his left breast pocket. And my shining light was the actual badge. Holy fucking hell, man. Really?

It was the make of the badge, yeah. God, damn. it was i just thought it looked like it specificity on this guy holy moly i thought it looked like a um a realistic piece of you know a realistic press pass from whatever from as you as you described it in 195075 yeah exactly i think they're borrowing from whatever's convenient in the moment

okay well fair play to you whoever found that badge take the next day off absolutely um but don't because we need you to come back and put the scene back together so we can enjoy it again immediately after we stopped talking and turn the movie back on um shining light for me

this watch I feel like it has got a lot of chatter already so this feels cheap but the curtain it might feel cheap but you look a million bucks thank you so much to sort of borrow on the angle you've come at

with like a physical artifact um rather than like a personal performance or line specifically in the Sunny and Share BG's number BG's number If we could use the turn of phrase Sunny and share BG's number

as though you the listener has any reading comprehension on what that means I can't stress this enough that is 100% accurate I know it's out of context but when we say the sunny and share

BG's number there is actually a really smart way to describe the scene that's in Joker 2. It's the most efficient way of communicating to you when this moment in the movie is. And if there's one thing Tim and Guy are known for, it's efficiency. That's right.

So, my shining... Some people would watch this movie once and tell you they think, you know, what they think. Fuck those guys. Fuck those guys, man. Look at us. Because what are they doing? Not us.

Not us. Exactly, man. You and me, man. Shit, yeah. fuck yeah dude because no one's even done this before no one even knew to do this no one would think no do it this way no one is thinking right exactly you got to get you got to think right you got to get your thoughts right it's like that song which they keep repeating in this movie you kept because you're trying to learn some of the lyrics to kind of carry you through this journey

and you thought it was da da da da da da da da da da da da da da come be happy be happy it's not be happy It's get happy. Forget your worries. Come on. Get happy. And get happy is such a different meaning to me than be happy. We're going to chase all your fears away. And it feels communicative to what like we're doing.

It is. Be happy is like embrace your bestowed fortunes. And get happy is don't let the bad thoughts in. Well, isn't be happy like Bobby McFerrin? he shrugged don't worry be happy yeah

that's a different thing it is there's ruster no I've still got it don't worry I'm operating on all cylinders as I mentioned before

it's the curtain in that scene and the Sunni and Sherbiegey's number oh the curtain's phenomenal turn's amazing and actually if you're a fan it's like it's thick it's the right sort of it's the perfect texture

for the bounce of the light and I think they've got It's not just the light. They've got different coloured curtains to occupy a certain palette. 100%. And can I say if you're a fan of the curtain and the way it looks, you'll also be a fan of Sam Campbell's fantastic comedy special companion, which was directed by Henry Stone,

which is filmed in front of the very similar curtain colour way. Insanely, that entire special is filmed through from the perspective of a sniper's coat. Oh, that's, fuck yes. But I'm pretty sure I saw some behind the scenes of those guys making it, and they went curtain shopping. And there's a photo of them with all of that same basic curtain colorway because they wanted to model it on a Rodney Dangerfield set from a late night show. And so they are pulling from the same visual language.

Not from Joker 2, mind you. I think it existed before this. No, no, no. You're quite right. And that both Joker 2 and Sam and Henry are all pulling from the same well of like 1950s, television talk show era because to me it's actually not quite right but like dick cavit palette it's that's kind of a muted um what is that called what are those colors called it's like the opposite of neon what is that called pastel thank you anabel's here thank

god anabel is here pastel palette it's like a muted pastel palette pastel's one of the hardest words in the english language to remember you reckon every now and then you need an expert on hand you do You need one. Everyone needs a name of the soul responsibility is to just be remembering the word past elixis. It's important. Anyway, that's my shining light is that curtain. That's so nice.

At one point in Sam's special, he says, a lot of snipers in tonight. He's a fucking funny dude, isn't he? He's a very funny guy. What else have I got in my book, Tim, and my little book of ideas? You tell me, brother. I like the atmospheric sound of a helicopter in a movie.

You did say that aloud, and I told you to write it down in your little notebook. At one point, I think it's when Catherine Keena is telling Arthur Fleck that Harley might not be

who she says she is and her intentions might not be pure. And the entire time they're having this conversation to me there was at the time the very comforting gentle hum

of a helicopter that the sound designer has chosen to play because it's not visually represented. A helicopter that a sound designer has chosen to place

like in the upper upper register of the background audio of the film and when I heard it I thought there is something about that there is a consistency to the noise that is making me feel okay is it purely kind of the phonics of it like it is just the set it's not

it's not what it represents reminding you of anything it's the sound purely the sound it's the textural oral feature of it so that's something I wrote down in my little book fantastic it's a positive it's a positive note

hey here's the things that guy liked a tiny badge on someone that is briefly in the courtroom scene at the back of a shot and the sound of a helicopter that is playing while two people No one could tell me I'm not watching this movie

Hey lot to be said for that Actually at one point you did tell me that you will need me to watch the movie That is also true I forgot For a portion of this Guy made a spirited defence of his refusal

to watch the movie He had his back turned to the screen and so face to face with me and I said, hey man, you really do have to watch the movie and he said, I'm doing more than watching the movie I'm experiencing the movie and I said you're breaking the rules of the thing we're doing and you said that's not true

I said experiencing something is more intense than watching it and I said that doesn't matter you need to watch the movie watching sex is different from experiencing sex I agree with you but we have set out an expectation for ourselves I don't see you and to our audience

and there is a certain dignity with which I like to carry out my work you can accuse me of many things however I will not have my integrity tarnished by Guy Montgomery literally and metaphorically turning his back at Joker 2

what does this movie say about the power of music I said out loud the words for some unknown reason the power of music and then Guy said you want to know something Tim and he opened his little notebook

and he pointed at a note that wrote down in the last watch that are the words literally the power of music there is what I was trying to say with that is I'm ready for you to share

your feelings and opinions it's a buffet of poorly like implemented ideas that you could kind of to choose from in this movie and one of them is that if you wanted to go down a track you could just make this a musical that is commenting on the power of music itself if you wanted to this movie doesn't that's it i have no desire to opine further on that that's it i'm closing it off it has no value okay well what about this what about we finally talk about gary puddles

Let's get into it, man Gary Puddles is in the first movie And I can't remember enough to place him But based on context clues He worked with Arthur So I think Because he says you were the only one Who didn't make fun of me

So Arthur killed all the other co-workers And he did Those are all the guys he murdered I see And the talk show host And his mum makes sense Where did he work? There's one trying to remember

And so I think with Mr Puddle It's like Mr Puddle's as a little person Gary Puddles Gary Puddles is a little Mr Puddles was his father's name Correct But it's also his name

If that's his chosen honorific And my guess is in 1950-75 It would be He might have No No He might have gone by Master Puddles He might have

We don't know It's up to him Yeah So He comes into the courtroom If you haven't seen the first movie Don't worry about it Neither of I

Doesn't matter It's not important there is simply a reference to a witness that's going to come forward called Gary Paddles and you're like Gary Paddles that's quite a funny name it is such a funny name and Joaquin's choker is the only person brave enough in the courtroom to spend a huge amount of time and energy talking about how funny it is that someone is called Gary Puddles and so you're kind of as an audience member going Gary Puddles that's that's caught me off guard And then the doors fly open of the court

And you've got a little person walk in And you're like All right, Todd Okay, and then Do you know what they do? You don't know what they do? They put this witness of the court Who's gone through a lot

On a yellow pages To boost him on his seat. It is absolutely unbelievable to me How unnecessary it is To have the shot. We see him walk into the courtroom. We see him like, we will later see him sitting at the same.

stand, to have this gratuitous shot from behind the witness stand of Gary Puddled sitting on a Gotham City yellow pages. It adds nothing. It's absolutely crazy. Narratively, it adds nothing. I will say, some of Todd Phillips' comedic instinct, which I think is communicated through this shot, also runs through the Joker. because at the end of the

this is sort of peak Arthur Fleck stroke Joker stroke Foghorn leghorn fucking parading around the courtroom pretending to be a lawyer It's like Fiji Sonny and Shear 19575

Judge up There's a lot We haven't What that is but we'll get to it There's a lot of shorthand that you have to develop When you're running these processes What I'm trying to say Is we see some of Todd

phillips comedic instinct running like there's some of todd phillips inside of arthur flecks slash the joker and he does this big song and dance as being this sort of lawyers parading around making an absolute meal of interrogating the witness and then he sits back down yeah and he's got puddles written on his yellow notepad and he scribbles it at the top above that there's just one sentence written down which you know we had to believe that this is his preparations for talking to the witness on the stand. There's a question written above the big name Puddles

which he's crossing out which says how tall actually are you and I hate myself for thinking that is funny. That is funny. No, listen,

that is funny. It is funny within the context of this film that a man's life is resting on like basically this one witness is the only one of two witnesses we have on the stand to support him.

And also this is how important he is when When Arthur slash the Joker does this terrible job of whatever, cross-examining him, I guess. You have a flare for the dramatic. You are tugging on my heartstrings. Little Gary. That's right. That's right.

At the end of that tirade, unnecessary. And I don't think we'll be supported in the court by the judge or allowed for what it's worth. If we're going to spend so much time as a courtroom procedural, we must obey. Can we have some fucking discipline on this production? If we are within the world of a musical, let us play by musical rules. If we are within the world of a courtroom, let us play by the rules of a courtroom procedural. To make something new and to run all of these moments into each other, you need to break some rules. No, fuck you, you're wrong.

And so is Todd Phillips. The way that you subvert a genre like that is you have to prove that you are capable of creating within the genre. You have to know what the rules are and have like an advanced understanding of why they exist before you can subvert them. Is it the first joker a perfectly executed genre? No tunes musical. Believe it or not, it ain't. A little more spirited than I wanted to get right then. Hey, man.

Can't remember the point I was trying to make. Let your feelings fly. It's funny. What's happened is... Mr. Paddles, it's funny. He's so important to Arthur's defense that when Arthur has no further questions, Your Honor for the witness, he crosses Mr. Putter's name out four times. Like, everything was presenting on this going well.

And his one bit of prep was How tall actually are you? That would have saved his life. And the wider point on that And listen, am I looking too much into this film? Listen, that's the whole point, man. Yeah, listen twice, man. Todd spent so much time making this.

He's been so much time writing it. He'd spend so much time directing it and then you're going to spend so much time in post putting this all together. The least we can do. And then trying to sell it. Like, he got to the finish line and then the real race begins.

It would be akin to, in a recent conversation we had, I was talking about a video game of the Olympics that I played with my friend Nick in Wellington. We were very stoned and pulled out an old video game system we had bought in Sydney like 15 years ago. And the system itself was based on video games that came out like 20 years prior to that, or more. And there is an Olympics video game

where you only know what event you're going to play next if you are able to pass the qualifying mark of your current event. Yeah. That's Hollywood. That's modern movie making. Just like, Arthur doesn't know where he's going with this. Arthur is a fucking idiot. Todd Phillips sucks.

Jordan Peterson is king of the worst dudes on earth, and this movie was made specifically for him. This was a fantastic waste of violence. money. And I mean that in all senses of the word fantastic. Like, fantasy, yes. Both depicting and taking a zoom

out, the meta-analysis of this, what fantasy are you living in Todd Phillips that you thought this would work? You thought this would work. That people would want to see this and tell their friends to go to Joker too. On the record, there are previous conversations of you saying

the idea of Joker as a musical is appealing. Exactly. the concept but I'm saying he made it all he made it all in the way that he got to choose we

we're just fucking like we're in the back seat man and he is driving us for the next eight watches yeah crazy to think about that we're going to go watch this again right now 10 watches

Fuck, you're right Fuck What do you review it One thumb up Yeah, same The worst idea of all time Worse idea will die A fresh you ain't lose your mind

Your boys are bad with what you need That worst things Then life are free This idea of old time That was idea of old time A brand new way to wreak your mind What's the word of idea of all time