The Worst Idea Of All Time - 11: The Body Is Able

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

It’s the 3rd watch of the day, and the 11th watch over all so far and the bys re wearing thin. Guy is trying to figure out whether it matter if Joker 2’s director, Todd Phillips made a bad film intentionally or not. Tim believes the movie may be talking to him. You’ll want to catch this one for a special announcement of a project-related task the boys will be engaged in immediately after this episode recorded.If you want to catch the comedy sets, better sign up: twioat.substack.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

idea of all time I'm going to say hello I'm going to say hi right back at you Guy Montgomery and I'm going to say welcome Tim Bat and you the listener to another enthralling, captivating and exciting chapter

in our critical analysis of Todd Phillips' 2024 art project Joker to Folly Adjure Now imagine this the DC universe Lots of directors have had their go at it.

Tim Burton, Christopher Nolan, to name but two. Also, Todd Phillips, most famous for frat comedy films like the Hangover Trilogy and Old School and Road Trip. But now, after making a billion dollars from putting his own unique stamp on The Joker has decided to go back for a second bite at the apple. But this time, it's a musical. And this time, Lady Gaga's in it. And this time, I sincerely.

sincerely have grown to believe he is doing it for no one. I think I'm someone who I don't necessarily struggle with having total courage of conviction in my opinions. But 11 screenings in, I am now much closer to having a very firm handle on where I stand on this text. and I don't want to lock in this opinion with an eye to the broader view of method film reviewing We wouldn't want to get ahead of ourselves after a mega 11 viewing of the film I'm not putting this down in vivid

but what I am saying Like there's a very gone of the giddy heights Of previous episodes in which we lost ourselves In the project of watching the film Okay I don't remember the last time I've seen you smile yeah i yeah i know what you mean in the widest sense but um i i think we're operating on a similar

wavelength because i'm sort of at the point now after the 11th screening of the movie where it's like we've been living here at the classic um the comedy club on queen street in oakland and i i feel i don't feel like i live here i feel like i'm trapped here and uh my sense of time has gone you talked about this so early but i've because we're spending so much time in a building that doesn't have sunlight in it. We're sort of operating at hours of the day where normally you would see sunlight and that sort of informs your circadian rhythm

and helps you get a sense of where you are and we've evolved with that. Pretty much every organism on earth attunes itself to the 24-hour cycle of us rotating around the sun. We have robbed our body of those sorts of clues and cues so that we know how to sort of metabolize and sleep at the correct intervals. And it has created a very discombobulating environment

where we're just in a pretty small building that's got a lot of brick walls in it. And all we can do is just keep watching or talk about Joker 2. And that's kind of the funny thing about this whole thing. We've got two things on the menu and one of those things is watching Joker 2 and then if you get a little bit sick of that,

the only thing you've got to look forward to is discussing Joker 2. With their full respect to you, there's no one I could imagine doing this with other than you, but with the one other person who I've seen really in four days. And the ultimate sort of delicious irony of this self-built prison in which we have trapped our psyche, is that if you grow tired of discussing Joker 2,

as one might become after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 or even 11 screenings of it, the only way forward, the only way to absolve yourself temporarily of the responsibility of discussing Joker 2, funny you should ask him, is to watch Joker 2. It reminds me of a moment from quite a good film, Matilda, where the, I've forgotten the boy's name, has to eat the whole. Bruce Bogtrotter. Bruce Bogtrotter is forced to eat the entire chocolate cake.

He's had a little bit of chocolate cake And he thinks this is yum And then as punishment for eating some of it He is forced by Trunchbowl To eat the entirety of the cake Which would be a sickening task And I feel like I can relate to Bruce

Because I have consumed a sickening amount of Joketoo Undoubtedly Well here's and here's But the only way to Get well again Get right with myself Is to eat the whole cake That's right

The delicious iron on top of all the layers of sort of irony so far as that, you know, once you have watched Joker 2 and this sort of metaphor I'm setting up, the next thing you have to do is, of course, to discuss Joker 2. And that is more or less where we find ourselves now. Now, I think something that is very funny or amusing to me conceptually is it very well may be. Todd Phillips has in earnest and sincerely made a movie for no one. And wouldn't it be just phenomenal for your heroes, Tim and Guy, not to fully realize that information until they have watched that movie for the 11th time?

And committed themselves to a further three watches no matter what. Like just an absolute, you know, a sweet and hilarious misunderstanding. if we committed ourselves to method film reviewing one of the few sort of commercial releases that appears to, and like from all of the research I've done and watching it, and the very, very cursory research I've done in between moments of, you know, reading or being educated on the sort of wider cultural aspects of it, you know, if we picked out from the head the one movie, which is genuinely, genuinely for no one.

And there will be people who tell you that this movie is good. There will be reviews written. We're not first cab off the rank when it comes to discussing this. I know that a lot of ink has been spilled on people telling you it's bad. I don't doubt that inevitably there will be people who sincerely believe it's good or people who enjoy taking the contrary position of arguing, no, this is just misunderstood in its time and will age into being. something one of the greats

yeah but I am telling you as someone who feels you know uniquely positioned to do so this is for no one do you think it's impressive at all that Todd Phillips set out to make a movie for no one

yeah yeah it's a pretty funny thing to do to make a movie for no one the alternative if I could just play devil's advocate for a second is that he made this movie for an audience

the other avenue of thought that we could explore while we're in this space is that he made this movie to be enjoyed for people to watch and engage with as they do with a lot of cinema and to potentially you know what are your thoughts on the director's intent

do you think that Todd Phillips set out to make a movie for people or do you think he set out to make a film for no one? That to me feels like the big question in the middle of this episode. I truly am coming to the conclusion that he active,

like every choice that he made was actively to make a movie for no one because there are so many options opened up which we have discussed exhaustedly. And he will... And exhaustively. Thank you.

And he will close them off at every turn. Like every time there is a possibility of opening up this movie for a particular audience, he sort of yanks the possibility away. And that's such an interesting thing to do, isn't it? When you are dealing with so many talented people in a phenomenal amount of money and a not insignificant amount of money, and a not insignificant amount of your own time, not to mention your reputation and your energy,

to shirk any potential fan from getting their teeth sunk into your film that you're making, it's a unique way to do the biz, isn't it? That's a different take on showbiz. It's an interesting choice to make. It is not necessarily an interesting choice to choose to choose to, continually live through. Sure.

I'll give you that. Undeniably an interesting choice to make. Because the other path, which is becoming less plausible, the more I consume this, is that he was trying to make something for people and got it this wrong. And I think if that is the case, his response of boarding himself up on a ranch and distancing himself from the project is kind of a funny defence because in that event the defences like I think through that defence he's communicating your reading of the movie which is no no no you're not not enjoying it because I didn't get it right you're not enjoying it because I made it to not

be enjoyed so ultimately the place we land at with either of our understandings is that the same, which is one he made it for no one, or two, he made it for an audience who rejected it and he then said, I knew you'd do that. I'm going to the ranch. I knew you'd do that because secretly, and I didn't want to say it until now, I made this for no one. Yeah. I mean, I haven't really followed what you've said and I've tried.

I've really tried. Tim. And it's not, we're not going to relitigate it because No, no, no, no. But if you can't. I know enough about what you're saying to know that it's not.

I just think his, that important. His defense, if he did unsuccessfully, if he made this movie to succeed and failed. Yes. I think his argument out of that is the same as if he made it to fail.

Like, you know, when you say a lie enough times, you believe that thing to be true. Yeah, I, yeah, not to be contrarian, but I do think they're different. I think having the different objective, it changes what you do. Because he's either succeeded or failed. You get to set what your measurement is of success or failure in a project. And if he went out to make a movie for no one,

then I would like to shake Todd Phillips hand and say, congratulations, champ. What a phenomenal way to use $200 million US dollars. Yeah. I think to become slightly more self-reflective, and you'll notice that, I think you, the listener will notice, that it is becoming harder for us to discuss the specifics of the movie. And my theory as to why is, you know,

we've only method film reviewed once before. and that was in New York City in a sewer with teenage mutant interiors out of the shadows and that in many ways I think was arguably more physically challenging that was you know we have slightly more agency in that we with sports team are running this production ourselves

and while we have not been getting getting a recommended dosage of vitamin D. Yeah. We are able to step outside to inhale fresh air, which we were not in New York City. That's true. Which is unique. I think physically that was harder.

I think psychologically this is just so much more challenging than running analysis on that movie. And that is because this movie is bereft of, there's not a single character who is enjoying themselves. Yeah, I mean, and he kept using the word joyless when we were watching in the last screening, and I think that's right. I think you also shouldn't underestimate or undervalue the difference that time has made. We are older, different men to the men who lived in a sewer in New York City,

and I think that's relevant. Okay, well, I'll put this question too. you. Yeah. I've got a wife and kid. Does this movie... Does this movie... They exist outside of this brick building?

Does this movie or project make you love your family more? Yes. Is there a world in which the version of Tim that emerges from this project is a better Tim, a more present Tim? I think there is every possibility of that because don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Yeah. They pave paradise and all that's... screening there now is Joker 2 on repeat on a big projector and you can't see anything else because Paradise is gone they paved over it just big projector screen now you you can't move

for Joker 2 do you feel like the movie's talking to you now because I had um I'm having increasing moments of synchronicity where things that I'm thinking and feeling the movie is articulating oh that's the lyric you don't know what it's like being sung relentlessly in this movie by the film's protagonists. And I'm thinking to myself, you're right, Joker 2. No one else does know what this is like. It's just me and Guy. Guy and I are like the Joker and Harley Quinn.

And so when they keep saying, you don't know what it's like, I'm like, yeah, man, this is totally dead on. You being everyone else. Exactly. everyone who's not in this building. Do I think the movie is talking to me? The other big one that came really early on, which was my shining light in the last episode,

is when Arthur emerges from one of his fantasies that he's retreated in in the courtroom and said, I can't take it anymore with desperation in a tone that completely matches my emotional state watching the film. I think that's true. And I think, you know, like some of those moments when he's asking Lady Gaga

to stop singing and just talk Yes, exactly. Undoubtedly moments throughout you know like he says I don't think

we're giving them what they want like there are a lot of lines which could speak to the movie for no one theory and those you know as as your perspective of that crystallises

those could be reaching out to you and you may be in synchronicity with the sort of breadcrumbs of, you know, the public statement that this movie is for nobody. I also think I'm blinking less. Okay. Okay. Which is both an interesting thing to happen and an interesting thing to notice,

but I feel like my blink rate has decreased over the time of us watching the movie. Have you got any idea what that would mean for me neurologically? No, no. I don't. I don't. I also just want to say, I, um, While I can understand and comprehend what you're saying, I do not feel an increased synchronicity with the movie

or as though it is speaking to me. I have reached the stage of the project where I sort of feel my brain and body actively rejecting. Yeah. Like, you know, sometimes you see ads for cauldrel or you'll see. ads for over-the-counter medicines and there will be a very sort of lightly rendered digital representation of the way that a virus or sickness will attack you. Yeah. And the way that this medicine will put barriers up to reject. Yeah. And, you know, it's a great... Like the Gaviscon fireman. Yes. And it's a great marketing tool because it does, you know, it reduces the service

of a medicine which absolutely could not have 100%. you know impact or function but it like it distills it into a you know it turns us into children again where it's like oh well I don't actually know what it does when I put it in my body but if it does anything like that yeah that's great

because then I'm not going to get sick and how does this relate to your body's relationship with the film now that's like what my so I don't have access to um you have no immune system for the movie anymore no no no no no I don't have access to medicines uh that can serve that function for me right now.

I can't put anything in my body that will reject the movie for me. But the only minute is impossible would be not watching the movie. That's right. But my brain is like is actively trying to create barriers, the Gaviscon Fireman.

It is trying to arm my consciousness with its own Gaviskin Fireman to protect me. Sure. That is where I am at. Like the, you know, the the I often think about

you know that like the mind is the mind is willing the body is able yeah I often think about that sort of mantra like I think I got it from you maybe in a previous episode or season or you know a previous pocket of our life and if I think about that now you know with respect to watching this movie

the mind is willing the body is able. The body is able. The body is able. Because ultimately, for all of this reflection and analysis we're running on how we're feeling about watching it,

we are just sitting down in front of a movie. Yeah. That is very much within our grasp of what we're physically capable of. Of course. be ridiculous to say otherwise. The body is able. The mind is not willing.

The mind is absolutely not willing. And there's two, I guess there's two paths from here because we have more screenings on. No matter how much we think our work might feel like it's finished, that is a false dawn. It is not finished. So I can either let my brain continue trying to shut down and reject. what's in front of me or you know we can find a way

to go a little deeper. We can find a way to put ourselves in the mindset of the Joker to perhaps even in some small way try to understand what it is like.

Absolutely. It's important to remember that this duology is set around a man whose sole mission in life is to make others laugh. Occasionally murder people. That's not necessarily his mission. That sort of happens. Well, he sets out and successfully does kill a few people. And even in the comic books, it's like he is a super film.

Sure, but this guy, we're dealing with this guy. Todd Phillips, Arthur Flex, Joker. And that guy wants to He wants to tell jokes He wants to tell jokes He's really It will shock you if you've watched this movie This many times

But this guy wants to tell jokes Mainly is what he wants to do Beyond being in the courtroom Like his He doesn't want to be in the courtroom No no no He wants to tell jokes In fact he wants to tell jokes so badly

He tries to tell jokes in the courtroom Which is ill-advised he kind of fires his lawyer so he can make jokes so pursuant to this end what have we decided guy well we are in a comedy club and to this point it has been on its dark days

so we've been here Sunday Monday Tuesday and these are not show nights at the classic here at 321 Queen Street Wednesday however is the night of big Wednesday which is the new material show at the classic where comedians get up with seven minutes of ideas

or whatever they may have and have permission, it is a contract with the audience who understand this new material night to sort of get up there and muck around. It is historically outside of the project my favourite night to perform here. Absolutely.

And wouldn't you know it, we find ourselves here on a Wednesday. Yeah. Scott, the manager and owner of the classic has been very generous in allowing us to live here and have run of the place, really.

And he's also extended that generosity to when asked earlier today, when it occurred to us, that pursuant to the project of method film reviewing, it might make sense in pursuit of going a little bit deeper to jump on stage tonight, he said, yes, that's no problem.

It would not, I think, it might serve us over the project to perform, you know, as Tim and Guy. We will be Tim and Guy on the stage. In a way that we are inescapably always ourselves. And yet, I just think we need to put some of that muck on our face to borrow a phrase from Brendan Gleason.

So I suppose all of this is quite a roundabout way of saying, we're going to be getting up on stage tonight with a pocket full of jokes and a face full of makeup and a bloody fucking spiritful of dreams. If not to do well on the show specifically, which to our credit we did for Warned Scott that he's not booking us at our sharpest. he's vaguely aware of i think how we're doing i we're going to get up there and give it a go do you know

what's crazy what i just realized no one else could possibly answer that question except for me what's crazy guy what the start of this like this 11 screenings in a lifetime ago you know I was a confident and competent stand-up comedian and by doing this and then inside of it doing stand-up Yeah Like I've

Temporarily I fucking pray Yeah Like eroded a lot of my At least confidence if not talent Yeah Is that what you're getting at? Yeah yeah

I feel like nervous and vulnerable. Yeah, good. How do you feel? I feel like I'm going to get incredibly humbled on the stage, and I think that's appropriate. It's almost in my head being framed as a shame ritual, which is a little bit too much on the path

of how I keep coming back to this feeling of self-loathing. I mean, look. It feels like a form of... self-flagellation. Like, yeah, man. Don't get me wrong. We're going to try hard with the Joker makeup on. I'm going to try and do material about Joker.

But I don't know what the material is. And we're on stage pretty much straight after this. So I don't know what's going to happen. In the same way that Todd Phillips made a movie for no one. Yeah. And I think it's a credit to us that has taken us this long to realize, you know. Do you worry that we are now making an art project, like out of it, his art project for no one has led to us making an art project for no one?

It's interesting my relationship with Todd Phillips and how it's developed over the 11 watches, because at times I've verbally flirted with my respect for the level of ambition the man had to take such an incredible swing for the fence, but using such a large scale commercial structure to make what is niche feels like a mean-spirited word but quite a niche pursuit of art and I'm back there I've been angry at Todd

I've been impressed by Todd and I'm back at the point now where in light of the fact that he probably did make a movie for no one. I'm like, inescapably, there's something very cool about that. You know how the coolest people

are the people who just have no care in the world about what others think of them? Imagine making a movie for no audience in mind at all. Or maybe even being antagonistic towards any audience gravitating towards the movie. I don't think that Todd doesn't care what people think of him or this. It just feels too intentionally... It's too bad to trip over this movie.

It's too... You don't accidentally make Joketoo, don't you think? Isn't there something to that? Like, you can't accidentally make that. No, no, you can't, but it can get big on you. You can make a series of bold creative decisions that feel like they will come together. Yeah.

And you can be working towards a deadline, or you can be working towards production. and you can sort of be like, we'll figure it out on the day or it's going to come together. And then as it's happening and it's getting away from you, you can realize that it is not going to come together in the way you hope. Yeah, a bit of books and time on the ranch.

Yeah. Look, I want to take a moment to talk to you about our way out of here. Yep. How are we going to do it? It's a great question. Guy and I have been discussing a crossroads. and I hope you don't mind me bringing this up on the record. We've got two options in front of us

when we, after we've done our Joker sets tonight on stage. Behind door number one, Tim and Guy, take a well-deserved break, go home, wash their faces off, kiss their beautiful partners, and get some well-earned Kip, fresh for another day of Joker 2 watches and reviews tomorrow. Now, there is a second door.

And behind door number two is Tim and Guy getting off stage to a very hard-to-predict reception of their Joker material, donned in the clown face makeup to the crowd at the classic on a Wednesday night. I'd like to call it Joker-inspired material. And behind that door awaits another watch this evening of Joker 2, Folly Adir. Not bed. Can I say, more Joker for you. If we are to select Door 2 Yeah

And these Conversations we're having in the wake of watching the movie Are the product that we are creating Yeah And the way that we end this episode The listener having full knowledge That the next episode would be subsequently recorded On the same day or night

Yeah This is one of the worst advertisements For a forthcoming product I can imagine You've got to adopt a little bit of a Todd Phillips attitude towards this and not get too bog down in that

You've really got to go Like we've set up a plan and a commitment And a vision And It will be what it will be Okay It might not be The best thing

That anyone's ever made But it will be the thing That we set out to make It will be, I mean, yeah, absolutely. It will have integrity. And I was going to say what's more important than integrity. Probably something that's good, realistically. No, no, Tim.

But integrity is also important. Do you know, there's a wall of posters on the wall here, here at the classic. We're upstairs in the studio, and there is one more completely papered with comedy shows of yore. And on that wall, guy spotted the poster for the, first ever time I did the New Zealand International Comedy Fest from memory in 2012. And the name of the show is smokers, jokers and midnight tokers.

Does that not mean something? Was this not in some way predestined to happen? Were we not supposed to arrive here at this time and do this? I think in the interest of bolstering, you know, your confidence and imbueing this. with some meaning. It was preordained. It is your destiny to perform stand-up comedy with a face full of Todd Phillips inspired Joker makeup on tonight.

And, like, honestly, you're a fantastic comedian, and there's every chance it will go well, and it will give us a second wind, and we will walk off stage into a screening and have, like, the night of our lives. You know, what I will never rule out is the possibility that at some point, this connects the way it's intended.

even if it goes well at the gig the movie will wipe off any I think you're underestimating the impact the movie's going to have yeah I can think it's a little disrespectful to tell me I'm underestimating this movie it feels a little bit like you know I've got a pretty good handle at this point

I would argue as strong as you about what this movie's capable of. I've done a lot of big Wednesdays. I cannot conceive of a universe where tonight goes well enough to carry through another watch of this where my mood is buoyed on the other end of it. You don't think you can squeeze two hours and 18 minutes of dopamine out of one new material set. I don't want to, I don't want to be too negative. I don't want to be too presumptive either. So we'll park that. All right. Well, Tim, we've not discussed anything we enjoyed from this particular screening of the movie. And that is something I will do.

Gaga. Heard of it. Phoenix. Prison visit. Perspex dividing wall. Phoenix is confronting Gaga for lying. Deflect, deflect, deflect. Something, something.

Was this a lie? Did you know I've moved into your old apartment to start a lie for us? Mikeen Phoenix says What? I don't want to live there Yeah Dude I'm with you

And that is A totally reasonable place to be It is I would like to pick this apart a little bit It's crazy So she So what's Because she says I moved into your apartment building

Apartment apartment She refines that she's moved into where he lives She's moving to his apartment to help them start their like future life which it begs so many questions because I think Arthur Fleck has been there for two years so it's gone what untenanted he's been paying rent

does the state pick up the tab we can't imagine it does so we've got somehow Arthur Arthur Fleck has been paying his apartment unoccupied for two years it must be an estate even if it was left pretty tidy like two years.

What would happen to an untouched dwelling? She's got access to money. That's true. That's true. Just give it a deep clean. Yeah. So she's taking it upon herself to just move in. She's dropping a lot of information on Arthur consecutively to try and bamboozle him.

You couldn't fault her for initiative. You could take points off for presumptiveness. And anyway, what I am awarding points for is the delivery of the line I don't want to live there and so many of my favorite moments

in this movie now are when either Joaquin or Lady Gaga like deliver a line with what I think of as realism in the context of not realism in the movie

but like when I can see a glimpse of the person playing the character like that's kind of what I'm looking for because that is a window into normalcy that is a window into these people are professional actors

on set doing a job a job they may or may not feel passionately about but like a welcome reminder that this is all just make believe you know even though our partner which they didn't ask for nor know about doesn't necessarily feel make believe right now what they're doing is make believe and occasionally they let me know that yeah and for that i'm grateful good on you man what did you enjoy for the last three and unfortunately this came to me about five minutes too late But instead of calling them shining lights, can we call them... Certain kind of light? We can absolutely call them a certain kind of lights.

Cool. So my... Certain kind of light. Certain kind of light. Right up top of the film, when the animated short, me and my shadow, ends, and we get the first real film frames. And it is an empty prison-carriage, well, prison-esque.

corridor of proto-Archam Asylum and the fluorescent lights click on and there is a gentle push in either with the Zoom or a Dolly getting us just a tiny bit of camera movement going forward. And that shot has been used a lot. Like it's quite a, it is very familiar visual language for film and television, in and around jails and jail adjacent locations. But it looks really cool. The contrast of that hitting just after the cartoon is ended because it is like beautiful and bleak. And you're suddenly like, oh, okay,

this movie isn't all animated. We're in a real world. And also, apart from anything else, this is the reason why it is... Is because there is so much promise at that point. No one's on screen. The only information, we have is that they are capable of framing up a shot of a hallway with fluorescent lights on it

and achieving pretty cool sound design because you get the flicker of the lights coming on. So you are just like, okay, they did a cartoon. It was a bit weird, but also cool, fun, interesting, pacey-ish. It's about 90 seconds long. It tells an extended story. In some ways, it's sort of like an emotional recap of what happened in the first film to bring you up to speed. and then we're hit with this opening frame and it's just a part of the movie

where for a moment anything is possible including Joker 2 being sensational Well Look without wanting to be negative It's obviously two thumbs down It's two thumbs down with a fucking bullet You know It's inescapably two thumbs down

Not with venomal malice either It is simply two thumbs down in a very straightforward and professional manner. In many ways, based on our conversations in this episode, two thumbs down is a triumph. Two thumbs down is what you asked for, Todd. In an interesting way, yeah. Congratulations on your two thumbs down, Todd Phillips.

Yeah. I mean, what else does you expect? Okay, well, look, there's, you know, we are down to three, three on the table, 11 in the can There's every chance we've met our maker Like there's every chance we've met our match But

You know Always bet on the boys Yeah Fuck yeah So I'm gonna you know Dig up some jokes Whip something up

Get our glad rags Or I guess get our face on And just put on a show baby like have a crack at put on a happy face you know what I'm saying no I actually am starting to feel ill

whenever like we use lines from the movie to each other wow you don't know what it's like to love somebody the way that I love you actually actually

actually please don't do that would you say please stop singing no no no I would say we are all we are we are we are we are all that each other have right now and as a friend can i tell you a joke a man's dog dies no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no