The Worst Idea Of All Time - 14: Jensen v. Superior Court (1984)

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

Tim and Guy have watched Joker 2 for the 14th time over the last 4 days. No external stimulus - both clad with noise cancelling earbuds. Now is a time for reflection. For gratitude to those who’ve helped us get here. An opportunity for Corrections and Amendments, not just for the boiz but for the movie as well. We also hear from Dr Suzie, a brave fan of the movie who has already walked this path and has a support and advice for the fellaz.There is more Worst Idea Joker 2 content for you, waiting at twioat.substack.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tim here, if you want to see me in the flesh and you're in New Zealand or Australia, good news. I'm coming to Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Auckland and Wellington for the comedy festivals. Please buy some tickets now at timbat.co.n.z. Well, I'd like to open this episode with acknowledgement and special thanks first off. first leader Callum and Annabelle from sports team for being there for us

especially Callum has been with us pretty much the entire time which is crazy just absolute legends couldn't done it without them Scott Blanks of the classic for giving us a run of the place without really asking any questions

we'd just drop them small fucked up details in what we were doing and I just get a text back saying yep that's fine. So appreciate that. Sincere thanks and gratitude to Guy Montgomery for doing this. It's a big thing to do. We got there and as I said at the closing credits which occurred about four minutes ago. Fuck you Todd Phillips. You can't beat me. Can't take me down. I'm still here. Thanks to you of course as well Well, Tim.

A hardy soul, truly. One of the hardiest people I know. Not in all of the traditional definitions of Hardy, but an unbreakable will. And also a bank of technical equipment which have facilitated the visual feast that has been laid upon everyone who has watched full episodes or even snippets of what we've been working on.

And I'd actually like to extend my not necessarily thanks, but congratulations to all of the extras on Joker 2 for making it as hard work as it was. And that is a testament to your performances on camera and the consistency you brought, the professionalism, the dedication, the accuracy of the performances,

your refusal to offer opportunity to distract has truly made this one of, um, one of the harder, sort of, you know,

mountains to build? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I got one for you, Tim. How do you, how do you give the Joker? How do you give the Joker a little hill? How? Give him a mountain and wait.

Okay. It's, um, do you want to explain how I wrote that? Or would you rather it just remain sort of? No, I would like to hear how you wrote that. Disfunctional. There's an old sort of joke format, which was how do you give an Australian, how do you help an Australian start a small business? How? Give them a big one and wait.

Nice. Gotcha. And that joke occurred to me while I was enjoying that last screening. And the word enjoying might not be 100% accurate, but there was a. sort of an airy that screening was as close as I've felt to the first time I've seen the movie

there was an airy mirror experience between screening one and screening 14 might have been the focus we haven't told you how things shook out after the decision which was lingering off the end of the last episode guy and I in fact did both be noise cancelling earbuds

Yeah. To have the movie, nothing but the movie, so help us God for the duration. We were pretty tuned in. And I think that level of focus is, the reason I wanted to do it is because that level of focus is pretty hard to achieve when you've watched it for the 14th time over a four-day period. And I just wanted to give Todd his best chance of having an attentive audience. Credit to the sound designer as well, because... the sound design was incredible there was a lot of

rich well hold on can we just do a little structure on this also thanks to our families in the thanks it shouldn't go without saying

let's say it I'd like to thank my wife my beautiful children my God for this yeah and I'd like to thank Tim's family as well

I'd just like to cover off a small section in this episode called Corrections and Amendments. Okay. The one correction that I had noted down is that we've talked a couple of times about the idea that Lee, aka Harley Quinn, aka Harley Quinzel, moved into the actual apartment of Arthur Fleck. That's not what happened. She moved into the apartment. building to essentially

build their home for them in there to start their family. I don't want to live there. I would actually also like to issue an apology to the animator who

drew up the opening cartoon me and my shadow. I don't know if I was lashing out or where I was but I think in our first episode I said I didn't necessarily like the animation style, I think, because the music had primed me so heavily for the specific visual language of the Looney Tunes. And I think I spoke out of turn. I said I didn't like it, perhaps, or I didn't enjoy it.

But it's actually a very good-looking cartoon. I agree. And, you know, not everything that we said across the course of this season was fair. And not everything that I said that was unfair is, you know, I can't remember all of that, but that is one that has been hanging over me. So I'd like to apologize. And I'd also like to single out. This isn't a shining light, but this was a consistently...

So what? This isn't a special kind of like. Thank you. But the way that the clothes of the cartoon, the police officers are bashing cartoon Joker's face and the blood kind of... it's not in a graphic style but in a kind of cartoony way the splatters become

red curtains that then get pulled apart from the sides to make way for our opening frame and the sound design is a nice sort of you know the sound of the curtains being drawn back and it's just like it's a visually satisfying piece of cinema and those curtains open up to the movie

to the first real frames of the movie so I'd just like to yeah I'd like to say that Well, hold on, before we move on from corrections and amendments, now for what the movie got wrong. Well, I'm just trying to remember if there are any other corrections and amendments, because for it to be one correction from you and an apology from me, doesn't feel... We can circle back if something occurs to it's very important because this would be our final opportunity to discuss these sorts of things.

there is a legal precedent cited during Arthur Fleck's court case at Gotham Superior Court to justify the reason why he is allowed to appear in full clown makeup and that is Jensen versus Superior Court I googled it Judge Up has said this

every time we've watched the movie and at no point has it added any valuable context to qualify what is happening. The world of the movie does not require

a specifically cited legal precedent for us to feel okay with a full face of clown makeup being in this court. Like there's nothing to suggest that we as an audience, the intended audience, and as a specific audience that we are, would

have flinched at Arthur Fleck suddenly appearing in Joker costume. Yeah, the assumption would have to be to have the line in there that the audience hears the judge say words to the effect of I am legally forced to allow you

to wear clown makeup but then I'm also going to specifically in the dialogue of this movie tell you what the legal precedent is no idea why that's in there so I googled it and it is a real life case from from

from 1984 so when are we in this movie because that is nowhere near in 1970 55 none of the costuming and technology suggest that we are in 1984 there's black and white TV it would have to be after 1984 as well

or at least 1984 I think it might mean that we have a time travelling judge It's possible It's the only Or The movie made a mistake It could be that

It's another Doubtful Yeah Another movie mistake That we've sort of Looked at each other about But not analysed Is the introduction of Lady Gaga

Understandably The movie wants to let us know That Lady Gaga Is now on the scene And the most powerful way to do that is to introduce her voice before we see her. So as Arthur Fleck is being walked to meet his fancy lawyer,

they walk past the music hall where the chorus of sort of lower risk inmates are doing their singing as a communal experience. And you can hear cutting through the dross of the group's voice, Lady Gaga, very loud and clear. And this is eventually matched up with a shot of Lady Gaga as one of the invasions. mates in the chorus room and her voice is loud and proud and strong and we get about three seconds of her voice partnered with her on screen and she is absolutely not moving her mouth at all she is purely looking up and it's almost like they're live mixing the movie because as soon as you see

her and she's not moving her mouth they quickly duck your voice out of the sound mix of the chorus I actually thought you were going to get into another potential correction on the movie's behalf involving Harley Quinn, which is when they are talking immediately after the moment you've described. So we're in the scene of their first meeting, and she's talking about how she and her friends would take that staircase every day to school. Have we talked about this? Couldn't tell you. The staircase they're talking about is the one that Joker dances on in the first.

first Joker movie that is all over the marketing of the film. It's a, I think the central poster image that was used predominantly to promote this film is Joker Dancing on the Staircase. But why does Harley know about that? Does the first Joker movie exist in Joker 2? Because that sounds ridiculous, but then again, there is a telly movie of Joker that exists in Joker 2 that everyone has seen. But why would they know about the staircase either?

Judge Up may have travelled a burned DVD of Todd Phillips' 2019 The Joker that he picked up on a holiday in Thailand. So he's not just a time traveler. He's jumping rounds, timelines. Yeah. He's going through the multiverse. Yeah. Collecting DVDs, bring them to other multiverses. Distributing them.

Yeah, yeah. And sort of, funnily enough, the main way that that impacts us is there are slight incongruities between what is being discussed as law within the film and what is understood as law outside the world of the film, just in the real world to us. So it's all things considered, the ramifications are not hugely significant. That's exactly what I was going to say. I want to say, you know, we gave this film an incredible amount of attention the last four. days and for those to be our biggest gripes five days good lord is really impressive i i think if you were to track backwards tim those would not be our major grotes i think i think we've laid out a litany of major grimes some totally valid some probably uh projection of where we were mentally

but I mean there's this feeling now which is it's not necessarily pride I just think it's freedom yeah there's a feeling now of um not anymore I know and you know there's something I want to um there's something I want to share with you okay love to hear it which is, at some point during this project, I went on letterboxed and I looked up Joker 2 just because I didn't want to get into particulars, but I wanted to understand if there were any people I knew who enjoyed the movie.

Basically, I think, to potentially create a straw man argument for someone who believes the movie is good or of value. And the highest review I could find on my letterboxed was by the fantastic Australian podcaster, film critic, and just all-round brilliant and funny guy, Alexei Tollipolis, friend of the podcast. And he had given this movie three and a half stars, I believe. and he is a lover of cinema.

He describes himself as a registered cinephile, which means that when he moves into a new neighbourhood, he has to go around and knock on people's doors and tell them he loves cinema. That is one of his jokes. It is always funny to me. And I opened the review. And I didn't, you know, like,

it's important to me not to cross-contaminate our experience in our critical analysis with the broader conversation because I do think that, you know, it is precious to sell ourselves off from the world with the movie and let it have its way with us and us are way with it. But I sort of skimmed the review and at the bottom of it, he said that he had seen this movie, Joker 2, the 3.5 star writer Joker 2, this is last year, with a friend of his called Sophie or Sophia or Susie, an S name, who he said really likes this movie

and he had linked to her letterbox profile and I clicked on it and the review it linked to showed me that this was her eighth screening of Joker 2 while it was in cinema. Good Lord. And I could not compute. I was completely thrown off balance because I thought,

has someone done what we are doing? And so I looked into it. And as it happens, Susie is the name. Susie is someone who embarks on intense cinematic projects of different stripes every year. She sets herself an intensive film challenge. Now, this, I think, incidentally became one last year because she sincerely loved Joker 2. Right. And so, judging by a letterbox, she wound up doing 10 screenings of Joker 2 at the cinema as an unironic fan.

Yeah. And I was very, and in addition to this, Susie is a doctor. Medical? A medical professional. So I... Slightly unnerving to receive that news. I got in touch. And I asked if he could.

could put me in touch with Susie, and I then asked to, I suppose, pen a letter to us. I suppose... Is she aware of what we've done? She is aware of what we have done. And I just said, look, it would mean a lot to me, you know, both as a fan of the movie and a registered health professional to reach out and just impart. some reflections and perhaps advice for reintegration. Okay.

And so I have it in my hand. I have the email written to us from Susie. Okay. Dear Tim and Guy, congratulations on watching Joker Folly Adieu, a film that I believe is a solid four-star experience and objectively one of the top ten films of 2024 14 times.

Unfortunately, you have awoken something deep in me that means I have to watch it now another five times on top of my already existing 10 watches so that I am still the most insane person I know in relation to this movie specifically. You've done something beautiful here and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Here are some of the things

that I genuinely, ironically love about Todd Phillips' joker folly are dear. D'er. D'er is goodbye. D'er is two. One, it anticipates the reaction that its most annoying audience members will have to it. The film sort of hates everybody, but it particularly hates annoying losers who think that the Joker is the second coming of Christ. Two, perhaps strangely, I found Joker, Folly Adir, a deeply calming film to watch. It's an old-school sort of entertainment.

Underneath all its grimness and nastiness, it harkens back to 50s, musicals and dramas in a way that called to mine nostalgic film watching. Though I will admit that in the months following my big watch of Joker 2, that the thought of dedicating another 2 hours and 18 minutes to that movie at any point ever again gave me genuine dread. three my dog liked it we watched it together at the driver

how do you feel in your minds and bodies at this point to get to three points that Susie genuinely appreciated her third of this short list of three was her dog liked the film that's great please keep going how do you feel in your minds and bodies at this point I am a doctor

and whatever doctors do is healthy Not true That's the law So no what you have done Is definitely healthy and normal Having been through a similar experience There are a few things I recommend As you return back to society

One Go outside for a while Hear the bird song in the trees Avoid listening to any Lady Gaga albums Okay Two have a general statement prepared to rattle off reassuring people about your mental well-being. People will ask a lot.

I'm just remembering back to the first Joker movie where Arthur Fleck has to give out cards on the bus to explain the medical condition he has that creates his manic laugh and that if there's any sort of odd behaviour in the next 72 hours that I need to placate the rest of the world who isn't you and I about, I should maybe get some cards made up. That second one really feels like it comes from a place of knowledge and experience. Absolutely. Three, try not to respond to everything with, that's kind of like in Joker, Folly Adir, when... That's hard actually.

Yeah. That will be difficult. I hope that you liked the film and if you didn't, you're wrong. It should be clear now that any faults you found are not truly fault of the film, but faults within yourself for deciding to watch it 14 times in a row. If it helps, I'm fairly sure the tide is going to turn on this movie, so one day when it gets reclaimed as a masterpiece, you'll be very cool. I hope you get cancer.

Nice. This is just a quote from the movie. If you do get cancer, I can recommend several specialists. Dr. Susie, MBBS, F. are a C-G-P, which stands for the Fellowship of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners. Ah, GP. Yeah. Susie, thank you so much for your service to the movie and for that wonderful letter to us.

I think your ideas are good ones. The initial idea that you had of watching the movie 15 times for yourself, pretty questionable, but all of your advice sounds very sound and applicable and useful to me. I would love to I actually have been thinking about reintegration I think the first day back is going to be really weird and a little bit tricky to find my footing

to operate outside the walls of the classic comedy club and outside the very regimented schedule of watching and then talking about Joker 2 all day and then going to bed and then doing it again the next day because now I have to sort of return to thinking for myself, making decisions. You know, akin to prison, we haven't even had to think about what we're going to wear each day. I know, and like you are going to have to account for other people's wants and needs from you now. Yeah.

Which is going to feel, you know, I think you'll be grateful for it. But also, in a way, there's a chance that will feel quite confronting. and maybe even abrasive to be like, don't you know what I just did? Daddy's back from war kids. Exactly. I'd also just like to say that I take, when I think about reintegration in the world,

I take comfort knowing that Susie is out there and that there is someone beyond each other, almost like a trained professional. There is another person in the world who we have access to, who we can talk about this with. on the level. Oh yes.

I take... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I genuinely take comfort in that. Yeah, it's a very small support group, isn't it? Just the three of us in there, but it's important that one exists

for sure. Apologies for tuning out just briefly. I was just checking my notes to see if there was anything sort of critical. There's a note that's right up the top, which I had actually originally written as a note for Todd Phillips. And I think it was actually

actually my subconscious communicating to me through the medium of writing a note to Todd Phillips so that it didn't get stopped along the way I actually might get you to read aloud what I've written here

if you can make out my handwriting which is a little bit sketchy. You've got to be so careful about what ideas you pursue you cannot tell me for a second that that was not you writing to you. It didn't even occur to me that I was talking to myself, but in

retrospect, who else could I've been talking to? What that note was about was I'd written at about the half-way, a little before the halfway point, sort of 40% through, so in a deep, deep part of the DVD extra scenes that they present

at the start of the feature presentation, and it was about the fact that we have sort of reverse engineered a little bit and discussed how this idea might have come about and all the constituent parts of it

sounding at least very interesting and compelling on paper. One thing we haven't discussed that we found out in between watches is that this idea essentially was supposed to be a Broadway musical which Joaquin Phoenix was going to helm. However, then the COVID lockdowns happened

and so this is one of the many strange products of the lockdown. And when I wrote down you've got to be so careful about the ideas you pursue. What I was talking about is that when you're being creative and you're making your art, especially in something as intensely collaborative as filmmaking, it's very easy to get lost. You can't see the wood for the trees when... The forest for the trees even. Even. That too. When you're in the middle of making the

thing, you have to trust your instinct because there's so many hard. parts in the middle bit of making something where you go, this sucks, this is a silly idea, no one's going to like this, this isn't working, but you've got to keep pushing through that to get to the end point and then it all starts to become clear that actually that initial idea you had with enough work, it is good, it is something. That's why it's so important to be very careful about the ideas you do pursue up top because this relies on your instincts being good. and Todd Phillips

jettisoning his professional relationship with Bradley Cooper apparently is partially responsible for this. Bradley Cooper was according to some authoritative sources online a bit of a commercial rudder for the ideas in the first Joker movie

I've got no doubt that Lady Gaga is in this movie somehow through the relationship that Bradley Cooper had with Lady Gaga. And so I guess this is a warning about considering the things that you're going to run yourself into and spend one or two or more years of your life bringing to life and also the company that you keep. Because once you're in the thing, once you're in the making of it, you have to trust that

it's working and it's going to turn out all right. You sort of can't allow yourself to think anything else, which is why the starting line crucial you've got to be careful at that starting line and then of course the message is for you and I you just have to be to quote myself you have to be so careful about the ideas you pursue we're okay and we're going to be okay

but there's been some pretty touch and go moments since we moved in on Sunday this has certainly not been helpful for our mental health or general physical well-being. But the work has been ultimately, if not important, relevant to anyone, possibly not even funny to most. It has at least been a point of fascination that I can look back on in my life and say, hey, you remember that fucking time we moved into the comedy club and we were

watched the Joker 2 Foliadour 14 times I say this with yeah with just total not admiration but you know

security and knowledge is that that is something no one can take away from you and if God forbid in our dotage, you know, the ravages, the unfortunate ravages of dementia or Alzheimer's were to take hold.

I do feel as though this experience will be one of the last things to go. and I really, really believe that to be true. Now, there's just some miscellania. As I said in the last episode, I have been a pretty thorough note-taker, and I just want to... Rifle through it. And while you do,

I just want to point out to everyone that, like, putting a loaded gun on the table, we're recording our last episode right by the exit. We are right next to the door. When we finish our episode, we get to walk through their individual. rejoin the rest of the world. It's right there on the other side.

We can hear it. There's a lot of hubbub. There's a lot of life happening on the other side of that door. There's fresh air. We're going to get to join it soon. So I cannot conceive of how knowing the law of Batman would either improve or agitate your experience of this movie. Yeah.

I don't think knowing it would make it better and I don't think not knowing anything would make it worse. which is potentially impressive how irrelevant you have made both of those data points for an audience I've written here a man is responsible for his shadow which is sort of

questioned and then perhaps what do you think in the short film do you think the message of the short film is that a man is responsible for his shadow I think they're communicating what they're trying to say is that a man is a victim of his shadow, which is insane messaging, and I think stacks up quite

nicely with how the first movie in retrospect was sort of characterized as a film for incels. Yeah, okay. I've written down, because it really connected with a lot of the earlier screenings in the day, I think the first actual line of dialogue we get in this movie is an inmate saying good morning sir and then one of the guards saying nothing good about it um i hear you i see you i know you put that in there and i think it might have been for us it feels so good getting these off my chest yeah uh shout out to the opening title font and color scheme and the opening credit sequence uh outstanding choices across the board rain is a motif in this movie what is the significant

of clowns in the rain. That remains a question mark. Rain is featured heavily. And I've sort of learned that I think Joaquins or Arthur's psychosis in the rain isn't necessarily connecting to the rain. I got thrown a little off balance early when Johanna said that clowns in the rain

is like a training exercise. Clowns crying in the rain seem to be an exercise. But Johannes says a lot of things. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, rain is a... Rain, I think Todd thought rain was a motif in this movie. And Todd, you are totally allowed to think that. It doesn't make it true.

I really enjoyed the cigarette wallet with a sleeve for the lighter, which is a piece of technology that is no longer really used. But when Arthur is being interviewed by a caseworker to assess his mental acuity, whether he can stand trial, he asks for a cigarette, removes the pack from a wider pouch with a clasp, and then pushes a lighter out of a thinner panel on it. We don't really use that technology anymore, so it was interesting to see.

The Irish pronunciation of the word star is one of life's simple treasures. Brendan Gleason said it two times, every time. That's 28 Irish stars. It's not a rating of the movie. It's just a nice thing to hear. What about you, Arthur? Do you think you're a star?

Something about the way that they open the mouth and lower the jaw really changes the emphasis and it's, if you're with an Irish person, don't be afraid to ask them to say the word star. This song was not in the movie. and it blew me away every single time, make him laugh. You know, be a clown, be a clown, or do you know the world, like, it's...

I don't know that song. It's just incredible to me. I will say that there were quite a few songs in the fit, like, just played as, you know, normal music in the soundtrack of the first movie. Send in the Clowns, for example, I kept thinking, how the fuck is send in the clowns not in this movie?

It's in the first one. Okay, so that might be... That makes a lot of sense. His lawyer might not be the best. lawyer but just got a good read on Harley. In fact, I disagree with that at this point. I think Catherine Keena is doing an outstanding job and if Arthur had the attention span to just sit through a court case, there's every chance he might have been found not guilty on grounds of insanity. Absolutely. Their entire sort of legal defense, I guess doesn't rest on but begins on

challenging psychologist's analysis when she says, how long did you talk to Arthur? And he says, two hours and she says actually it was 89 minutes um the satisfaction she takes from that is probably outsized real i guess she's trying to illustrate a wider point but anyway i just had it written down we never really gotten into it uh the trumpet playing prisoner is supposed to mean something i think it just means that he knows the same songs that the movie knows which is i guess a coincidence or meant to be interesting again it's neither uh tim you at one point got me to write down that clocks interfere with the fluidity of the viewing experience. Tell me about it.

It doesn't sound familiar to me, but I do know that we established pretty early on a sort of casino approach to removing timepieces around us while the movie was going on, I think. Again, it's sort of similar to the multidimensional time-traveling judge up in that we don't want to pollute our time. timeline and the film's timeline too much when we're really trying to as deeply as possible connect with the film on its own terms a la method film reviewing so

you got to get rid of those clocks during screening eight don't remember how the experience was for us but I have written down how is the TV feeling we're just watching it's playing it didn't get into that I came uncomfortably close to in that final viewing while we were listening with noise cancelling earbuds and roundhouse kicking the TV yeah yeah during the 13th screening

I did start pushing my head up against the TV and talk about just sort of you know I guess Lisa or Bart Simpsoning it being saying I'm just going to be slowly pushing my head forward and if you get knocked off the table it's your own fault knock knock guess what kid your dad died in a car crash

knock knock who's there Arthur Fleck Arthur Fleck who this movie quite simply does not understand the knock joke format. Stop trying to trade on it. It's not working for you. And from the final screening, we sort of covered it in episode 12. We didn't get into it because we were so taken by our discovery. But the origins, the actual origins of this movie, I think it can be watched as a comic book movie and a secret of Joker. It can also be watched as a documentary about Joaquin Phoenix's inability to separate from his, the character, aka a method of

film acting documentary because Joaquin Phoenix dreamt of the Joker performing song and dance numbers and this kind of world while they were still filming the first Joker movie he went on the record as saying I'm not ready to leave the character behind someone from the studio even described this as a movie only for Phoenix

so the reason this movie was submitted in the documentary category at the Oscars and none of the actors were eligible for awards is because of Joaquin so that's just something for you and I I've apologized to the animator I'm sick of these artificial barriers between the musical and drama

another instance of Todd not trusting us to put together the clues he's providing and instead having to directly label what he is doing that is a quote from the old time he's sort of 50s musical the inmates are watching that is the joke I did that didn't make sense for you at the start of the episode Oh, that's my shining light.

And what's that one there? Oh, I just wrote down gracious post-match interview. I feel like we have vanquished this film. And I do feel like, as we sit here, I want to say full credit to Todd Phillips and the performers and the artisanal craftspeople who worked so hard to bring this to us. you gave us a really good fight and it takes two to tango and we wouldn't be where we are

without the competition that you put in front of us I did not take anywhere near the screeds of notes that comprise Guy's notebook but just to get a couple of things off my chest during this screening I wrote down the letters SKL at the top of the page I have no recollection of what that was about whatsoever.

Top marks for the scoring of this film. Absolutely. The bits that aren't a musical or commercial music that are soundtracked. I'm so sorry I've forgotten her name. Easley Googable because she won an Oscar for the soundtracking and scoring of the first drug of film and also composed that soundtrack while simultaneously composing the soundtrack for Chernobyl, which was a phenomenal miniseries on the telly. I hope you had a nice summer holiday after those two jobs.

You know, that again, cinematography, scoring, grade, sound design, sound design, all immaculate. More violence. This is a point that I've never brought up on the podcast so far, but one that I've discussed at some lengths with Guy during the screenings. An idea that I sort of tripped over quite early on to the watches is that there is a, for me, confusing lack of visceral. in the violence on screen

and I kind of think it would help the movie to go a little more Tarantino with its depictions of gore. I think in our edit we did kind of address that note because the first large, fantastical musical number introduces physical violence.

Again, without the specific viscera, I think that you were talking about to make us uncomfortable. It's where it needs to be. When he beats Harvey Dent with a stool. With a stool. judge up with a gavel. We need to see some bits of blood and skull flying for that to work for me.

That might be a me problem at this stage. Opinions can vary on that. Apart from that, just wanted to mention that there is some interesting decisions made by Joaquin Phoenix in the courtroom. This happens a couple of times when basically his opposition are making a really good point that, in fact, he should be getting the death penalty for what he did, and he sort of nods in a agreement. One is when Dr. Lou is on the

stand and says, and puts forward a pretty convincing case based on his expertise in the realm of psychology that Arthur is faking

his mental illness and we have a cutaway shot to Arthur who sort of goes, hmm, just nods in agreement with this doctor

who's saying that he's faking it. And I also just the last thing I'm going to say about this movie is that, oh, there's two things I want to say.

The first one, and again, these are such small points, but so critical that there is no other time in my life when I'll get to say these things. What I discovered in the, what I'm going to call enhanced audio version, which is when you put on noise-canceling headphones and you just have to sit with the movie by yourself and your thoughts and your experience, is that after the car bomb goes off,

and Arthur is picked up by the Joker dude, the car that pulls up with the other joker in the front seat, they're not related at all. Those are just two completely different Joker fans. Did you realize that? No. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter at all.

It changes literally nothing. Bringing people together. Bringing people together. It's not nothing. And then the last thing that I've written down here is it's funny to say, fuck you to fire engines. Yeah, they do do that. Two years ago, the name Arthur Fleck hit Gotham City,

like a hurricane. The unassuming part-time party clown and struggling stand-up comic. Just wanted to say that in Steve Coogan's American accent. My certain kind of lie. It was actually Coogan inspired today. Steve, it's great to see you. I'm going to be enjoying your work on the Alan Partridge podcast from the Oast House. Post-haste, once I get out of here.

Well done you. When Joker or Arthur Fleck starts singing mid-interview, he gives like a look to his cameraman past Arthur Fleck which is like what the fuck's going on here yeah it's very good just pure comedy um I really enjoyed that and actually bonus one because I did write one other one which was jocusing and his British accent sort of semi-mimicking Gary Paddocker says so you don't think this is me you don't think this is me yeah that was actually the second one there I thought was money. So always things to enjoy if you keep your eyes open. Certain kind of light for me on this watch, I'm going to say it is every moment that

Sophie DeMont is on screen. She's a honey. Always cool to hang out with her in the court case. Happy to hear it. Well look, I mean, isn't it interesting? Isn't it interesting? What's happened here? Is it? Isn't it? Isn't it? Is it? I don't know. But what I can tell you is what my thumb rating is of this screening of Joker 2. Fourteenth time, only one with noise cancelling headgear on. A thumb up. No thumbs.

No thumbs. I have achieved neutrality. You know, if you are interested in the movie, take our advice. start it at one hour, eight minutes and two seconds. If you're not interested in the movie, what the hell are you doing here? I would like to thank you, Tim.

Once again, a huge thank you to Scott from the classic for having us here, 321 Queen Street, Auckland, Oakland's only full-time comedy club and to sports team who have been unbelievable Callum and Annabelle.

Check out their feature film, Weed Eaters, which is it's premiered now at the New Zealand International Film Festival I'm not sure how it will be distributed beyond that but huge shout out to those guys as well and to you...

It's bigger of you considering you were cut out of the film There is no one I It's not that there's no one I would rather do it with It's that there's no one There's no one There is no one else To

like I don't know that it's good for us but there's no one else there is no one else put it there well done well done to you now let's um let's open that door