The Worst Idea Of All Time - And Just Like That... Part 3 (w/ Maureen Johnson)

Episode Date: December 23, 2021

The great Maureen Johnson (celebrated Young Adult novelist) joins the fellaz after they forced her to watch the first three episodes of this thing. As a woman writer who moved to NYC when the show began, Maureen has a complex (hateful?) relationship with Sex and the City, and Mattress Piklet King appears to be targeting her in this new series. Guy is away from home navigating bad internet by using the classroom system of raising his hand when he has something to say and Tim is quite simple over Carrie's entire personality.MUSIC CREDIT: Intro - People Need Goals / Outro - ampersandschwa Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh my god, they're only doing sex in the city again. This truly is the worst idea of all time. Well everybody, it's time to join not just Timbo and Guy Guy for the 30th episode of And Just Like That, but it is my great pleasure to finally have on the podcast maureen johnson celebrated best-selling novelist i could not be more excited maureen to talk to you about the series how the fuck are you uh i'm good that's size speaks volumes before you launch into your answer, Maureen, I just want to know, were you going to or did you have intentions on watching this series at all before we asked you to talk about it?

Oh, no. Oh, absolutely no. No, no, no. In fact, I have some previous with this. So with the Sex and the City universe universe please take us through your journey with sex in the city i think the audience is familiar with ours well briefly i came to the city around the same time that sex in the city starts and so i was moving into that new York. Wow. As a writer. As a writer and a student at Columbia, where Miranda goes now.

And I had zero dollars and zero cents at all times. And everyone said, there's this amazing show on HBO. I was like, HBO? Who has money for that kind of nonsense? And they said it has hilarious plots, like a woman sends $40,000 on shoes. And I said, I never want to watch that shit. And I never did. Except it would be on the background sometime.

And it'd be like, who are these fuckwits? And why are they buying all these shoes? And I don't even like shoes. Do people really like this show? So I never see it, really. I absorb some of it. OK. Flash forward to the year that Sex and the City 2 comes out.

Now, it just so happens. 2008? You've seen it. I have. I think it was, no, it was after that, wasn't it? Was it nine? I think it was 10, wasn't it? I'm going to look this up.

All I can tell you about that year is that. It was 10 and I will hear from Guy Montgomery briefly. And then I will hear from Maureen. Thank you for mediating our conversation through this dastardly internet connection, Tim. I was just going to confidently say it was 2008. I started saying that. I cut people off.

I was proven wrong before I even got to finish the sentence. This is one of the most vulnerable uh that's embarrassing positions i've been in podcasting i will um i've got reams of notes here but i'm much more interested to hear what maureen has to say and then maybe we can have a little corner where i contribute my pathetic sort of thoughts um i know it was 2010 because i had a medical issue that year that resulted in me having constant rolling panic attacks like every day. No, this is not a sad story. It's a fine story because it was just going on and on and on. And my friend said to me, Maureen, you need cheering up.

I'm going to take you to the movies. And she took me to Sex and the City 2. And I sat there for two and a half hours and dissociated. Oh, my God. And watched this movie that I thought, everyone thinks this is comedy? This is fun? This is, they're just, I mean, I understand that you guys uh there's a question in the back mr montgomery guy is now raising his hand for those guys yes guy well i just i just wanted to

say i was hoping maureen would finish the thought and then i'd get to say a thought i'm sort of using the classroom system here i i just wanted to say that two and a half hours the thing with that is um i can't speak to the rolling panic attacks that surround your context of watching sex in the city too but that is long enough for your mind to take you to some either like incredible or dark places like two and a half hours in a movie that is not holding your attention and some of this is from experience is honestly like it's um it's an access way to like the innermost parts of your mind or like you know you you amble down some pretty long streets of thought and so it's you know like the you you provided fantastic context and i'm interested to know like did you did you have any either um you know, breakthrough thoughts or any breakdowns?

That's right. Any harrowing moments? Well, it's funny you should say that. The reason I was having all these anxiety attacks is it turns out I had this crazy anemia. My brain didn't have enough oxygen. So I thought maybe the experience will be different if my brain didn't have enough oxygen. So I thought, maybe the experience will be different if my brain is full of beautiful oxygen and I'm not having panic attacks all the time.

And it turns out that to prepare for this, I was like, I'll sit down and I will watch all three episodes. And let me tell you, it took me right back to where I was. Oh, no, I'm Lorraine. I'm so sorry. No, in a fine way. Anyway way i've i've exercised the demon the demon is dead but in what way and that it's like obviously this isn't i mean i guess it's not as bad as sex in the city too but i wouldn't say it's streets ahead of it in terms of enjoyability uh those first two episodes are they're right they're

take me through it maureen you you i mean you haven't heard yet because uh so we're recording this on the day that i think we're releasing the first episode you have not heard what i think about these first two episodes i would also love to hear what you think about the first two episodes of In Just Like That. Well, first of all, I knew I was in safe hands. Also, I re-evaluated my position with Sex and the City 2 because I have listened to that season probably four times in its entirety.

I've listened to Five Hour Energy twice. Two times. It's incredibly flattering. It's as flattering as it is worrying. I have a list of things that I remember from the show. I think the moment I worried about you guys the most

in general was not a Sex and the City moment. It was the moment when you went to LA and someone gave you a vial that just said party drugs according to you oh god yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so i don't think it was your lowest moment emotionally i think it was probably your lowest moment it was probably your lowest moment wasn't it um well i can tell you what guys one was because it was my favorite part if i remember

if this was the right episode, because I think I sprung it on Guy that we would be watching it again, I think. And I remember that being very funny to me in the moment. Guy's real-time reaction to that being the situation. That we were not, in fact, 100% complete. We were 50% complete.

Yeah. I'd say for anyone, even without the run-up that we'd taken with sex in the city too that that would um probably garner a similar response and honestly it's an interesting situation is it because i am the most vulnerable in terms of um that's the worst i could feel but also in terms of fitness and stamina, I'm probably one of the few load-bearing people who could actually handle that kind of mammoth surprise. Yeah, you're a real champ for sitting through a movie twice, Sky. Maureen is back on my – for the first time in the podcast, I can now see Maureen.

And honestly, I feel like I'm back in the room. Back in the game. Anyway, let's get off the ancillary products. Maureen, I want us back on the railroad of And Just Like That. Because this isn't even as... What amazed me is this isn't even Sex and the City, subtitle, And Just Like That. This is just called And Just Like That.

It's a new product. Maybe it's a Samantha thing. I don't know well uh the the first right before i watched the first episode i got a tweet from a reader that said hey i was watching and just like that and i screenshot this and they sent me a photo i'm an author and they're in the background sitting on the shelf in charlotte's daughter's room is one of my fucking books and there's not that many books on the shelf in charlotte's daughter's room is one of my fucking books and there's not that many books on the shelf there's like six books on there that is pretty fucking cold i saw that tweet that is how do they make you feel weird

nervous very nervous and i'll get to why because i only get I only get more nervous as to I'll tell you exactly why I'm nervous, because in the flash or in the little coming up on, they show her kind of they show Charlotte doing something in that bedroom and she's waving her arm around and she's getting very near my book. And I start to think, oh, my God, in the first episode, they kill Big with a peloton. So what if one of these characters touches my book and dies? Oh, wow. And dies from it. Yeah. I mean, they've already established in this universe, A, characters, well-established characters can die.

Yeah. Or B, sort of seconded away to Europe and then spoken about behind people's backs, your book may absolutely be a murder weapon. I wouldn't have said that was possible for the movies and the old TV show, but in this one, all bets are off. I have frozen that screen and studied those books. And you know what?

Those are not YA books. Only mine and maybe one other. So for some reason, I'm on that shelf next to Julian Barnes and some other shit that I do not belong with. So I don't know what, just like they are clearly sending you a message through this whole podcast thing, which I have a lot of questions about. Yeah.

Can I just ask this question now? Because it really runs throughout. I mean, we spoke about it a little bit in the first two episodes because it has to be said, it feels a bit targeted. And I think we should not immediately discount out of hand the possibility that Mattress Pikelet King is a listener and unhappy about the project. You can just talk, Guy.

You don't have to raise your hand for all of it i actually quite like raising my hand it makes me feel strong i i there's more evidence pointing towards um uh either knowledge that we exist in the world or like easter eggs for for tim and guy but when carrie goes to when carrie in the middle of a pretty intensely i mean carrie's back to like full flight sort of sex in the city movie levels of um obviously she's grieving her husband and i i mourn with her but also that does not give you the right to stalk your husband's ex-wife i think there is a limit to you know what you can do with your grief and hunting down someone who clearly has sent you, like, reasonable signals that they do not want to be communicated with.

But anyway, that's all by the by because my observation is she goes to visit her at her work. She brushes past the receptionist. She's sitting down in the foyer, the waiting room. Very, very nice. Like, big, big room, high ceilings. And behind her, the future of the shot instead of foyer could we shift that to foyer it's just more fun yeah of course uh in the foyer thank you behind a beautiful long couch in which carrie bradshaw sits slightly off of center there

is a picture the size of a house like i've not seen art flex this intensely i think in my life i've never seen an image that is not a mural on a wall rendered in such like scale and high definition and what should it be but a photo of one of new zealand's most famous exports one of our identifying characteristics and part of our national identity, certainly as we're perceived by others, but a fucking sheep standing in front of a rolling meadow, staring down the barrel of the camera, looking at Tim and Guy saying, Bar, bar, fucking bar, you sheep fucking podcasting pricks. I got that vibe too because before Peter Jackson came around with his big Miramax dick-swinging multi-million dollar budget Hobbit fiasco to put New Zealand on the map as a home for mythological tiny men, it was famous for sheep.

I can't even remember the stat off the top of my head, but it was something like when we had a population of, I think, 3 million people, we had something like 12 million sheep at the time. And that was often, I think, a pub quiz fact about New Zealand. That was where people's knowledge of the great nation of Aotearoa started and ended before Lord of the Rings. So, yeah, that did feel a bit targeted. I did think of you guys.

It certainly did. And then further evidence through this episode and an entire series. Beautiful shot, though. It's got to be said. They like a bleak room. Yeah. I mean, who doesn't like a big room? Is the featuring of Shay Diaz, the non-binary podcast host slash stand-up comedian,

they give that character a stand-up comedy special taping they give that character a stand-up comedy special taping and play down essentially five minutes of, and just like that's version of stand-up comedy, which is basically sort of grandstanding with the concept of a joke introduced once. Like there was five minutes of stand-up and there were probably four attempts at comedy towards the end guy can i in the in the name of structure for crying out loud because

i hope that people aren't necessarily watching the show along with us maureen if it would be right with you i know you took a lot of notes you are a professional storyteller if i started some sort of a clock do you think think you could give us a summation of what happens in this episode in like three minutes? Yeah, if I can even remember. Give it a go because this will be fun. Let's see. Carrie, she doesn't sleep.

She's got to go to the will reading. And it's a real pain in the ass because her lawyer woke it off the fucking phone. Her lawyer is having an argument with his wife about the dog. Miranda is yelling. Miranda has a drinking problem. Miranda is mad. She's like, speed this up. I got to go to lunch.

What's his face with the glasses? Stanford. Stanford is angry at Charlotte. Charlotte's daughter may be non-binary. She's not sure. There's a million dollars left in the will to Natasha. And so Carrie stalks her, first going to the places where she lives and works,

and finally just accidentally walks into her in a bathroom in a coffee shop in a different part of town, burns herself. Natasha, I guess, forgives her for some shit. I don't even know. And then we just close out. We get a couple. Do we even do the podcast?

I can't remember. And then there's seven minutes. It's right at the start. Yeah, there's seven minutes of comedy. Miranda sort of makes out with Shay, but she gets a little. That wee that was to you guys the whole thing's to you guys um that was a minute 11 i am super impressed with the brevity because i don't think you missed anything i think that was all the big beats guys or anything you did it wasn't featured in there yep uh a few vital details uh anthony's startup hot fellas which is guys and like tight denim rompers

delivering bread is fleshed out a little bit and also uh we get just essence of brady and partner uh as miranda and steve are watching like one of the characters arcs for miranda and steve is that they watch shows on streaming platforms on their TV at home. And Brady and his girlfriend are in the kitchen making food. And I actually love, I mean, it's not a surprise. Well, actually, it does feel like this is custom made for us because Brady's character is one of the few to come off, like they're building on his story in a way

which makes me want to spend more time with him. And like his partner's really funny, like they're building on his story in a way which makes me want to spend more time with him and like his partner's really funny where she's like incidentally rude but from a very good place where she's like hey you guys are getting older and um full fat milk's actually better for aging bones and of course they've got to be in their bonnet because she is a fuck machine not unlike their son and uh instead of just taking that information on and being like, you're right, we should strengthen our bones.

They're like, can you believe this fucking woman is telling us about our bones? But otherwise, I mean, Maureen, you're an accomplished audience member. And I mean, you know, if you get tired of writing novels, I think writing blurbs is certainly well within your reach. That was sensational.

Well, do we, I think writing blurbs is certainly well within your reach. That was sensational. Well, I have a couple questions about those scenes. Do we think that every single night they have a – at Miranda's house, apparently every single night they do a full ice cream sundae bar? Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's canon now because she – so the things that come out in a brief conversation with charlotte is that they do not have sex have not had sex for years and the only sort of um thing holding their relationship together is a having a child

together who seems very independent and um unencumbered by them these days, and their nightly dessert routine. Those are the things that are keeping those cats together. So I think this is every single night they're getting, they're hoeing. It's a Sunday, right? She's essentially making a Sunday bar at home. Yeah, it's a Sunday bar. It's a big tray and it's full,

but for some reason, the main thing they put on ice cream is chia seeds. Yeah, they fucking love chia seeds. They really do. They stick in the teeth. some reason the main thing they put on ice cream is chia seeds yeah they fucking love chia yeah i like that they they mentioned chia seeds for us to finally understand i'm so sorry this is why the hand system works nope i just like that they talked about chia seeds long enough for us to know Steve's position on chia seeds.

We don't have to wonder about that anymore. He hates them. He gets them stuck in his teeth. And I'd also like to say I love chia pudding.

Don't have an opinion on the seeds. Hey, while we've got you guy, while the internet's sustaining your conversation, could I make a request to you?

Like you're some sort of jukebox. Could I get you doing Steve spelling chia seeds chia seeds oh chia seeds uh chi uh c h e e e no a A Seeds C E Guy's still got it but Steve doesn't

D S Chia Seeds Thanks Steve You were wrong on the third letter I believe But we appreciate your attempt It's actually quite hard to misspell chia seeds. Phonetically, it is almost a perfect match.

You know, chia and chea. The che, it's almost, is that one of the, is that a reference? I'm just trying, oh, I'm just saying. Is this mattress Pikelet King's way of saying non-binary people, the whole concept, sticks in my craw as chia seeds stick in my teeth. Yes.

I don't know. But he just seems to keep bringing up the topic a lot in this season. He is. There's some interest in it. Big time. Why? Is it typical in a comedy gig like the one that Che does at the end for there to be no chairs? that Che does at the end, for there to be no chairs?

I would say it's not like, yeah, outside the realm of possibility to be an all-standing gig. For typing. I don't think I've seen a single special, yeah, where everyone is standing. And also, yeah, I thought that was a crazy decision by the producers of Shea's Netflix special. I was like, it's going to be distracting. I mean, sure, if you get into the special, you might forgive it.

But watching it for that whole time, I was like, these people should be sitting there. And also, like, yeah, I guess maybe they're going for a different energy. They want a different vibe. And, you know, that's their prerogative. I'd also quickly, while we're talking about the special, I'd like to say mattress pike that appears to have become obsessed with making sure that the name of the thing is mentioned in the thing because every episode ends within just like that

and shay's special is called check the box and i mean it's not it's not unheard of in stand-up but i'm like you know you can name a thing and then it can just be alluded to you don't need to expressly point it out every single time give us a freaking break yeah maureen as a professional writer like does is this a do you think that that is a clever thing to do or a kind of childish thing to do of keep having to say the name of the thing no you just hammer that shit in over and over again you don't say it once you say it five times you say it 10 times pound that shit in you can't risk your idiot fucking audience missing the point i just i mean also while we're talking stand-up i said it last time and tim sort of went off against stand-up comedians saying that we're

awful people in general which if i'm being completely honest part of it felt like it was directed at stand-ups but a lot of it felt like it was directed at tim uh one of the last things that you really want to see or that i want to see is um stand-up comedy as rendered in the sex in the city universe specifically the and just like that uh you like it's it's it's so it's it's it's a hard thing to capture inside of a fictitious universe ordinarily but um to see it you know laid out alongside all of the other shit they're trying to do in this show is insane and I was on the record Maureen I don't you wouldn't have heard this but I actually was so grateful the first episode to be back with these characters making different choices doing different things i was like high honestly i was high on my response to the fact that these people i've spent so much

time with are finally free from the shackles of a trip to abu dhabi or a marriage being cancelled but here we are episode three the, the high's worn off. I am back to the plummeting lows of being trapped in a hell designed to contain these fucking harpies. Do you know what I remember, which I'd forgotten on our first two episodes of the series? The reason that Kim Cattrall gave for leaving or not wanting to

participate in the third movie that was going to come out is because this storyline was big and she said i can't i'm paraphrasing a little bit but she was like i just don't want to be around as this accessory to carrie bradshaw processing her grief. Because everything in this show is just, everything is a handbag for Carrie to pick up and use and then discard later on and not kind of grow from it, learn from it, love the handbag. We're all just these objects for her to pick up and look at

and then put down again. And she was totally right. Because it's amazing that they ran with that story. They were like, that got leaked online for the third movie. Everyone was like, this is crazy. You can't do this. They're like, yeah, fuck you. We can't do that.

But then they did it. They did it for the series. They fucking did it. It didn't change a damn thing. He still died in the shower, just like the leak online said about two years ago, I think. Which I learned from you guys. Because I'm not going to learn that in any other way that you're my sole source of sex in this thing all i know is from you and that one time i was in that movie with with that in mind maureen can i ask um do the

behaviors of the characters and you know the surrounding world that what we created the you know the prism through which you're coming to sex in the city or and just like that which is obviously through us responding to it did everything roughly align with what you expected did you like anyone more than you thought or dislike anyone more than you thought like what was your response to what you were seeing? Well, I met Steve for the first time. And I didn't know just how good Steve was. I'd never encountered Steve. Stanford and his

husband are exactly as awful as you've always said. Carrie seems more sociopathic, maybe in this. But I mean, she may go down in history as the only person to try to throw a chic funeral yep um this episode really drives it home as well like the i i took like three notes one of them is uh and i wrote this at the kind of halfway point of the episode miranda is going to

hook up with shay but then it'll be put on ice while she deals with her alcoholism so i didn't expect them to have that kiss that i i thought that was going to happen up with shay but then it'll be put on ice while she deals with her alcoholism so i didn't expect them to have that kiss that i thought that was going to happen in episode four that basically happened at the end of this episode um i was baffled by the fact that charlotte threw a quote out there no sorry miranda did um about bodies being in motion remain in motion uh bodies at rest stay at rest uh saying it to shay and then she was like that i did not say that on stage that was not on my special and then miranda says oh yeah that was a quote from sir isaac newton and it was the loudest sir like why the fuck would you say sir isaac newton am i losing my mind i don't know something about that that was a quote by sir isaac

newton that i have or saw on a drink bottle or did i imagine it's on a drink bottle it's on her water bottle yeah yes yeah and then so to get back to what maureen was saying about the um yeah i i think diagnosable sociopathy of carrie bradshaw toward the end of this episode charlotte has figured out that miranda has uh truly a drinking problem that needs to be addressed. Because she asks for Miranda's bag when they're out at lunch for a cell phone charger, rifles through, and there's a lot of little bottles of liquor in there. And she's also been noticing, you know, the multiple glasses of wine at all the events that they go to. And so she tries to bring this up with Carrie.

And I hasten to add because you dear listener might be thinking to yourself carrie bradshaw's got enough on her plate she's mourning her husband i accept that but this episode is a few weeks later and she's very much dealing with life fine like this opens on her conducting her podcast pretty much as per normal she seems very functional she's obviously still in a state of grief she's doing an exceptional amount of walking around new york city which i kind of think is a healthy thing to do at all times but anyway that's kind of presented as this um symbol of how ill she is in her her mental health and emotionality at the moment but carrie's she's functioning she's

all good carrie breccia at the end of this is presented with the situation from charlotte that miranda when we might need to actually step in here miranda's got a drinking problem and it takes a bit of courage for charlotte to bring this up because charlotte is always the shrinking violet not wanting to create any fuss or bother for anyone else she's plucked up the courage to bring this to the attention of her friend who's going through something and carrie says don't we all have a drinking problem and then later when charlotte is naming the situations where this is getting out of hand carrie answers that with okay can you stop noticing things this is the best friend in the world I feel

And this is a global comment towards the Sex and the Cityverse I feel like this has been held up so much as a thing of womanhood And it was so important to like it And to feel like this was I didn't want to ruin anyone's time because people seemed so enamored of it and it meant so much to them. And it's so...

It's not only terrible, you guys, it depresses me. It makes me angry. It makes me want to burn down a bank. Big dives and I feel nothing. They are all crazy. They are just... They are empty shells with clothes on them that I don't understand. Carrie, she shouldn't be getting dressed.

She should be, she's got, how many necklaces does she sleep in? She can't sleep because she sleeps in like 25 necklaces and a bracelet. And she's got no purpose in her life. And she doesn't write anything and they're just a bunch of paranoid rich weirdos and i don't care about any of them that didn't even occur to me maureen but i think you're completely right like carrie bradshaw is devoid of purpose she's a writer who hasn't touched a keyboard basically in the series to do any profession the only time she touches the keyboard so far,

and we're at the end of the third episode now, is to try and guess Big's password on his computer because she's trying to solve these mysteries of why he has a picture of his dog in his wallet, why he left a million dollars to his ex-wife, Natasha. Second time she writes. The first time she writes is in the first or second episode after she shies away from discussing masturbation on the podcast.

And then she writes down, masturbation in the afternoon, matinee season or one-time showing or something. And it's like, okay, here is a writer who has not donned their tools for a while. And obviously, you know, to write well, first you have to write badly. But, yeah actually it's interesting that you you talk about how you're watching these rich paranoid women maureen because it makes me wonder i don't think the show is ever intentionally trying to discourage us from empathizing with the characters or maybe to you know not unlike in something like succession to perhaps enjoy the fact that people who have all the trimmings and trappings of the life that is, you know, quote unquote desirable to ordinary folk are actually potentially as if not more miserable than the people who are watching this on their laptops at home.

None of these characters lives look very good. No, they don't. And I not only would I cross the street to avoid any of them, I have, because this is my home turf. And if I saw someone like fucking Carrie walking along, I want no part of that

shit. The first episode, she goes to lunch. She comes home to watch Big Salt the Fish. They talk about whether they put on a todd run grin out you leave todd run grin out of this and then the next day she goes to a piano recital what is she writes two sentences i can't figure out what to do so she's like big jack off for me maybe that'll help me figure it out yeah yeah and there's all of this collateral damage you're right like musicians

your book um the concept of podcasting anything that they kind of rope into this universe is is they're like real world objects from the plane of existence we live on and they're like that's also in in the uh and just like that universe you're like oh fuck off don't you bring your get this shit out of your mouth you know stand-up comedy bobby lee like leave it out it honestly it feels a lot like dress-ups like it it feels like we're watching a bad marionette show or something where all of these people are sort of like is this what the world is like maybe maybe people will be able to relate to this and you're watching it and you're like so obviously you sort of skimmed twitter and uh understand that you know the world is changing

but you haven't engaged with any of it and now you're presenting it in a season-long sitcom with characters who are like who who were relevant and were important and should have been left alone. Yeah. It's The Hangover 3 that we're watching. I really came into this trying desperately to... I think it's so easy to be rough on Carrie. It's basically a meme at this point.

So I came into this episode, eyes and heart wide open, ready to stand with my girl. Who's going through a tremendous tragedy. Her husband, who she's finally after a pretty, you know, tumultuous many,

many years has found some sort of, um, peaceful and loving groove with the man, her husband, and then what does he do? He up and dies on her all of a sudden. And even the fact that they're at this world reading and suddenly it transpires that he's left a million dollars to his ex-wife Natasha. Listen, that's a hard thing to deal with. And so for Mattress Pikelet King to be able to take all of that goodwill that I tried to gin up by myself going into the episode, all of the goodwill that he created by throwing this interesting twist into the story early on,

and then still managing to run that into the ground where by the end of the credits rolling on the episode, I am back to fucking hating Carrie Bradshaw. This can't be accidental. This has got to be an engineered, deplorable character. You know, as a longtime listener, and I certainly know a lot more about your experience with Sex and the City than I do about Sex and the City, so in many ways what I understand is a much more pure version. And I've really internalized so many.

I mean, it's hard for me to overstate just how many times I've listened to you fucking guys talk about this. I listen to it like it's music. I could speak along with some episodes. When I like a podcast, I like it. And you're so positive. Like you bring such a positive energy and you won't destroy anything on purpose. You give it time before you destroy it. And you're so positive. Like, you bring such a positive energy, and you won't destroy anything on purpose. You give it time before you destroy it. And you just don't want to take it down for the sake of taking it down.

So I didn't want to come into this in the way that I was, which is that I hate them all so much. And I wish ill for them. And when Big died, I laughed. I mean, I laughed after the horror, because that moment is pretty horrific. Yeah. But then I started laughing, because I didn't care. It's a reasonably well-done moment in that...

It's upsetting. Look, I reckon Mattress Bucklet King saw this in a movie, that whole cross-cutting technique, well done moment in there it's upsetting look i've got it i reckon mattress booklet king saw this in a movie that whole cross-cutting technique where you've got you know dramatic live uh piano performance happening where someone is creating the drama that underscores the scene and then cross-cutting to him slowly um going harder and harder on the peloton and then keeling over and dying um i think you saw that in a movie but fair play to him you know good artist borrow great artist steal he successfully generated stress and uh intention in that moment through uh lily's fantastic playing so props to him for that that was probably the most um evocative moment that

they've had in the three episodes so far apart from like the blind fury that i just feel for carrie like i can't get over her disregarding charlotte bringing the news of miranda's alcoholism to carrie and carrie just so casually brushing it aside and insisting that charlotte shut her mouth it is so wild to me that this whole show is supposed to be premised on these women are the best of friends and always have each other's back it's sad man bums me out and also guys froze not enough he's still on the call this is not a show about female friendship i feel like i would know if it was it's not like i am all women but it just makes me feel cold and dead inside just Just like them. What do you think this is a show about if it's not a show about woman friendship?

I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out. Because I, for example, costume dramas. This is like a costume drama, right? Yeah. Except there's a reason for those costumes in the costume drama. Because they're usually about, say, Jane Austen time or whatever, where the marriage market was an actual economic market. And, you know, your clothes were your value. You had to wear the jewels and the clothes to get the husband so that you had some sort of economic status so you could live.

And they're just doing it for no goddamn reason. Yeah. They could be doing anything. And they're doing this i think look miranda's gone to university i dig it yeah she's the only respect in time for it right guys back in the room what do you reckon guys that did do these feel like fully fleshed out adults living a life or does this feel like jane austen's emma but without it is like out of time therefore it doesn't really make any sense uh they sort of they almost have the the details

of someone with a full life but i mean i i can't get past the discussion around carrie and i honestly feel like sarah jessica parker at some point between the second movie and this series gave an interview where she didn't admonish Carrie but I feel like she maybe acknowledged that she is I don't know if I'm conflating things an anti-hero or was like obviously a lot of what was done in the show would not pass muster now and there is a degree of them trying to uh you know reach out some some form of atonement but like it's the same old Carrie if someone else has a problem it better get out of the way because

I have my problems and I'm the protagonist of the world we are doing a regular segment on these episodes that you won't have heard yet Maureen which is best character worst character where we select who was our favorite in this particular episode of in just like that and who

was our worst would do you want to go first or would you like us to go first so you can have a think about it because we did not warn you ahead of time no i think you guys should go first because i'd have to i actually have to think about who that who was in it yeah fair enough um guy do you want me to i'm very happy to kick off because i actually was hoping i think um when i when when i was uh absent before i was absent i wanted to i felt like we were we were being negative and i wanted to uh sprinkle some positivity through the episode and there were a few things i wrote down which i enjoyed and i'll read those and then it will lead quite nicely to my favorite character and then I'll unveil my least favorite. But there are a few little moments,

a few little details, which I thought that's nice. I really liked the shorts Carrie wore when she was on the phone late at night to Miranda. They were baggy. They were cut down to the knee. You don't see a lot of shorts like that anymore. I think if I saw her wearing them in the daytime, I'd be slightly taken aback.

But in that setting, I thought they looked really comfortable and I wanted a pair. I also really liked it when they were observing, is her name Natasha, Big's ex-wife, who got a million dollars in the will. And Charlotte was trying to be mean about her to bolster Carrie's confidence

because she is a sort of, as you say, a shrinking violet and you know, all she wants to do is help her friends at the cost of putting down a stranger. And she said she's wearing flats. And then Miranda said, that is the most desperate put down I've ever heard. I like that. I like that dialogue. I like that line. I like that delivery.

I loved that moment too. I also enjoyed hearing Hold On by Alabama Shakes, a song that I hadn't heard for a long time. I thought it was a classy touch. You know, Sex and the Cities and Just Like That, acknowledging that not everything has to be set in today, 2021. But my favourite moment, and accordingly my favourite character,

a real treat for viewers and podcast listeners alike to hear this even happened, was our friend Runkle. A rare glimpse of a shirtless Runkle rolling into the bathroom while Charlotte's on the phone and taking a monster piss. He said he had right of way because it's a bathroom and a bathroom is for the toilet. It's not for phone calls. And he's a fun guy to be around. And, you know, again, it's a reflection of where I'm at with the series, I think, that I mostly enjoy characters who, well, who aren't on screen a lot.

But Runkle was my favorite today. And I'd say my least favorite for the first time this season would have to be Carrie Bradshaw for returning to the absolute peak of her powers as an entitled, self-interested, and selfish person. I will select for my favorite character in this episode, Anthony. I'm not sure what it was about the performance, but he felt like the realist mofo in this joint. There was something about the... I'm not saying it was correct his advice

that he gave to charlotte so charlotte it has been brought to her attention by her daughter rose uh doesn't feel like a girl so she's sort of struggling with her gender identity and and bringing that to her mom and wrestling with that um which charlotte is feels very ill-equipped to deal with so brings that to anthony and Anthony's like, it's a fucking kid. You don't have to listen to fucking kids all the time. Just ignore it. And it was like, you know, not perfect advice, but it just felt like a real person.

And I love that he's got a business called Hot Fellas that's just buff, scantily clad dudes rocking around, giving out sourdough. That's just gold. I love what he's all about. Least favorite character in this episode would be... Do you know what? I'm going to say Brady's partner, who insults the, I wouldn't say elderly, you know middle-aged miranda and steve about their

bones haphazardly sure she didn't mean it with venom but it was still a pretty boneheaded thing to say and you got to respect the dojo man you're in their house constantly having sex with their son at least try and negotiate a bit of politeness. All right, I think I've got mine figured out. For favorite, I think it's Charlotte. Because you know what? You see her, she's in her bed, reading to her daughter. Now, her daughter looks to be, or child of indeterminate gender, as part of this episode we find out.

She's reading to her child. Now, that child looks to be about 13. A little old to be reading what I believe is spy school to her child in bed. A little weird, but okay. It's nice. Child says, I'm not sure what gender I am. She takes that on board and says, well, you know what? I'm going to accept you and I want to do the right thing by you.

That's great. And she notices that her friend has a drinking problem. She is ticking the boxes. She is ticking the boxes. And for worst character, I'm going to go with lawyer that won't get off the fucking phone while sitting in front of a widow he reading a will that guy could not catch a break because he did the right thing by ignoring the phone call but he did it in front of like his client and then got a very withering look from miranda and then all of a sudden he takes the call and he can't handle his business i was

like this guy is having a hard day. I like that guy has come out in this episode of our podcast as a real men's rights activist. It was bound to happen. I will not stare into the treatment of men in this series. Bitches were calling him on his iWatch. He was able to hold off for a full eight seconds until the call came in through the watch. And then he had to deal with bitches.

Yeah. Oh shit. Have you got any other notes that you wanted to delve into as we start to land the plane on this episode? Maureen, I need to know. And I, it's cause I haven't heard this episode,

but I need to know what you think of the wedding. Sorry, sorry, the funeral. And I think I keep saying the wedding. Sorry, sorry, the funeral. And I think I keep saying a wedding because it looks like a wedding venue. It's a stark white room. Um, the,

uh, they, um, for some reason, Carrie won't, won't have flowers. And she walks into this room and it's stark white. And she says,

this is the only chic place to have a funeral in new york thank god for those lesbians um i feel like the those two lesbians may be the mvps of this whole thing because they just are two women who just walk out for just i don't know what what that's apropos of nothing thank god for those two lesbians that's a pretty bleak moment that funeral right for aside from the obvious reasons that it's a funeral yeah i think it is i mean my brain is um pretty excited and ready for the fourth matrix movie which is coming out soon so when they walked into that room i was like fucking having a service in the construct where they load like the guns the walls of guns to come at you and you get to select what guns you want that's a bold move

i think they got that venue because it was cheap it looks like a it looks like a rehearsal room it's just they make this during covid like during the like do you think there were some restrictions i think they're filming because i'm just doing the timeline in my head it must have been at least like at least sort of nine months ago i wish that they would have been shooting this i would have thought they sit in groups in like groups of two in that in that seating area true and they seem to be just in a normal rehearsal room with some blank white chairs in it and i don't know if they could even get flowers because we didn't have dick here so cgi exists you know like you don't have to be making a marvel movie to to employ a little bit of computer generated imagery into whatever you're making

you can't cgi you can't cgi assault him yeah we don't we don't tune into and just like that for um for this digitized you know horse shit we tune in for a slice of reality for a slice of people just like us dealing with everyday problems in an everyday way what do you make of the funeral guy uh honestly i was so taken by the character of the secretary that the surrounding detail kind of um faded into the background like i none of the way that carrie went about organizing that funeral surprised me um you know a chic funeral often comes at the cost of a personal touch. And I felt like it was all very abridged. And I don't know.

I mean, you know, they managed to stuff that episode. And my excitement was still so high with enough detail that I wasn't really observing the minutiae of the actual service itself. But suffice it to say, those tasteful lesbians run a hell of a ship. Fair play to them. Now, how many fucking episodes of this thing do we have left? Does anyone know how long this is? I think it's 10 episodes.

You have seven more. No, you've got seven more, my friends. Feels like it should have been an eight-episode sort of season. But them's the breaks. Oh, you know what's terrifying as well? On imdb.com, it lists this as season one of Just Like That. Oh, no. Which I hope is a digital formality and not some sort of signposting

for what production has in store. I don't think there's any coming back from this being released. You know, look, it's been said a number of different ways some sometimes by us even sometimes on this very podcast series you had a culturally relevant wildly celebrated show that ended in the early 2000s it did important work it broke ground loved it. You fucking went for the cash grab and you ruined it. And then you've tried to resurrect its body using a combination of black chaos, magic and electricity to bring the gals back together without a key ingredient of Samantha Jones. None of it's working. I'm very sad that we've got another seven episodes.

It feels like a haircut where they um didn't quite get it right the first time and so they're like i'll just take a little bit more off and then they they keep cutting here and it just looks worse and worse and you think hey look at some point we just have to cut our losses and let this thing grow out until we're not thinking about it anymore but we're still in the barber's chair and they are still trimming and it is terrifying i'm delighted because i am the listener i represent the listener here today the devoted listener the sycophantic listener the one who knows everything and i personally i'm not watching this shit anymore i'm tapping out here i'm done god bless But I will be with you the entire journey. I refreshed

multiple times on my phone here today saying, is it here? Is it here yet? I am one of you. I'm one of your people. I am like the libertarian listener. Je suis listener. Maureen, it is incredibly

flattering to have you on board as our sole libertarian listener thank you so much for making the whole project worthwhile and i'll just take this opportunity to retroactively because i was contemplating putting a like precursor to this in the first episode but there'll be a different one there now um i as i explained before it was was coming off the back of my first comedy gig in four months and a few beers. So that first episode is somewhat spicy out the gate and not my most articulate podcasting of all time. So apologies for that.

But you're getting the unfiltered emotion of Tim Batt reckoning with this property. So enjoy it for all it's worth. That's what we come for. We the listeners, we go through your ups, we go through your ups, we go through your downs. We're here for when you're on the rise in the first couple episodes. And we're really here for when you get sort of the middle and the dip where you guys really start tearing into each

other. And that's where that's where we get dividends. And that's what we stay for. We stay for when you start to fall apart. You start to question everything. Your health starts to suffer. Your friendship definitely suffers. And we want to thank you for the gift of destroying yourselves time and time again. Well, as long as Mattress Pikelet's making him, we're

watching him. Maureen, it has been an absolute delight. Thank you very much. That's the end of our episode. Guy, well done on combating the internet. Maureen, well done on joining us. Apologies for forcing you watching the first three episodes of this. Ecstatic that you're not going to watch anymore.

Absolutely not. To everybody else listening, we will see you in the next episode. A good day.