The Worst Idea Of All Time - MWWC4: “CGI WILL get there” (w/ Laura Daniel & Joseph Moore)

Episode Date: January 30, 2020

Musical comedy superstars Two Hearts are Laura Daniel and Joseph Moore. Today they are also two-time CATS (2019) watching moviegoers. In a packed group session featuring Tim’s wife and Guy’s partner plus our musical comedy guests, Joe’s wondering if the rest of the audience also have podcasts requiring them to come to the film. The Rum Tug Tagger is in the crosshairs, Tim doesn’t know what a pound is and Laura can now understand the horrifying and disgusting decision to keep the human hands.Laura Daniel's Instagram / TwitterJoseph Moore's Twitter Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Here's the thing, we did it all. Whatever it was that we hissed, we licked our paws, we have not seen this film. We have no idea what they've included. Meow, meow, meow, meow. Hello and welcome along to Our Weeks with Cats. Very important that i make my week my week with cats sometimes our week with cats yeah uh it is uh a podcast where tim batten myself go montgomery spend a week watching cats and we are joined today by joseph moore and laura daniel independently sensational together uh musical comedy superstars two hearts the most famous comedy musical duo in New Zealand. Correct. Thank you. Correct.

That's right. And out of New Zealand too. And thank you so much for coming along with us to watch Cats today. It was a pleasure. It was fine. We saw it. We were invited to the premiere The New Zealand premiere

Open with a humble brag So we saw it about two weeks before it came out So we've had quite a while Lucky What jealous So we've had quite a while to digest it So it's been about five weeks since we last saw Cats Amazing

And as you said Laura You didn't think you'd ever see it again I didn't. I never thought I'd find myself in that position of sitting in a theatre to watch Cats. I was like, maybe it'll be on in the background somewhere. Maybe you'll bring up your favourite bit on YouTube for a chuckle.

But the whole thing? Because the whole thing is the hardest part about it. Just to sort of ground the audience with our watch today. So previously we've been going to the matinee 3.35pm Rialto Newmarket. The matinee. In Cinema 2. But today, presumably due to public demand

and the later start time, we went to the primetime screening at 6pm in lovely Cinema 7. The public demanded a bigger theatre please. And the theatre was about two thirds full of some pretty enthusiastic and wide ranging Cats fans. They took the bait.

Yeah. Was there an applause? There was an applause at the end, wasn't there? Well, that's a test we run at every screening. Okay. We applaud to see what the audience thinks of the film. I feel like more people applauded. They'll applaud with us.

Yeah, there was, I'd say, 40% to 50% applause, which is probably the highest round of applause we've had so far. I was astonished by the crowd size. All the negative press. It's been going for some time. We're about four weeks. It hasn't, Joe. It opened on the 26th in New Zealand, and it's less than a month later. It's too long for cats.

It really does pay to bear in mind that in that cinema is everyone in Auckland, a city of about one and a half million people who wanted to see Cats today. That was your only chance. I'm still impressed by that number. Like, Star Wars is closing. It's pretty hard to see Star Wars at the moment. And yet there they all were in Cats. And I was wondering, does everyone have a podcast here? I wasn't sure.

Wouldn't shock me. There was one woman who, about 35 minutes into Cats, left. And I was like, oh, there she goes. And then two minutes later, she came back in with three glasses of red wine. Fuck yes. That's what we did when we first saw it. We got two songs in and we're like, oh, okay, we drunk for this everyone got blitzed at that premiere before we drill into what you thought of this um uh screening of it because we had farrier on and he was pretty buzzed at the premiere

it's just like you guys might have been as well but what was the general like i'm so interested to know what the response was in the room at the new zealand during and after well they had a couple of theaters playing it so there were a few cinemas going um they kind of split yeah yeah so our cinema um there seemed to be people like watching it seriously but like just not really understanding what was happening and our little row was kind of like what the fuck what is happening like i knew it was going to be bad you just watched the trailer But I didn't really quite expect It was definitely like Okay everyone get a bowl of wine So everyone was just sort of in disbelief

Like this is crazy Kind of quiet disbelief though Yeah there wasn't heaps of laughing The thing about the New Zealand Premier Circuit Is it's a good racket to get in on You're on an email list And you want to stay on that email list Yeah and you don't want to get kicked off it

Totally So I think everyone, there would have been a riot if the distributors weren't in the room, kind of, I'm guessing with a notebook, looking for who to cross off their list. Like a little infrared torch and lights that let them see everyone's expression in the theatre.

I honestly think they know what they were putting out there. They must. Yeah, yeah. Everyone must. You can't look at that and be like yep yep that's it it's the guy who runs them i we know him and we showed up and we'd missed the last few and he was like oh you came for this one and it's literally his job to sell as many tickets to this film as possible yeah he um that uh aforementioned fellow chased down david ferry pretty fucking hard across multiple platforms

when he tweeted out a pretty scathing review before the embargo got lifted. Listeners of this miniseries will know. And David was pleading ignorance that it was a review he put out. It was just a tweet. It was very, very clear. And also, I remember the tweet. The tweet opened with,

Here is my review of cast. Yeah, I did enjoy, and this is sort of independent from what we're talking about, but because this is the fourth time we've seen it in the cinema, and again, with a fourth audience, I did get the feeling of like

what it would be like if you are a market tester, like you're one of the focus groups who they bring movies to. And I feel like you do draw out new information by watching it with different people consistently and it's different from worst idea experiences because that's usually just us and perhaps a guest but like you know we're driving each other crazy i think guy and

i are getting very much drawn into being on the side of cats now just it's sort of a stockholm syndrome style scenario you were singing along a lot yeah in the screening and i remember before the screening tim was remember before the screening Tim was like I don't want to sit next to Guy let's split up. And I think that was a mistake in retrospect.

Well yeah because you kept leaning over me and Laura to try and catch each other's eye to sing along together. It was cute. Well you actually Joseph were singing along a touch.

Yeah. Laura you seemed to resist. You spent quite a lot of the film sort of very deep in your seat. I had a nap at one point. Did you? I just got one out.

Not off. Nah, I did a few ballet moves. I saw that, yeah, yeah. I thought that was very bold, doing a ballet move in your seat. I think we were pretty disruptive for those around us. And actually, to the point that I was quite nervous, we were quite rambunctious because it wasn't just the four of us. Tim and my respective partners also came and i thought at the end of it i was afraid the woman sitting next to me because i was the only member of our group

who was on the periphery of you know society civilized society and i was afraid this woman was going to say to me well you ruined that for us and i was thinking to myself that's what ruined that's what ruined the cat's experience for you so when i watched it for the second time i actually kind of enjoyed it a heck of a lot more because i was over the hump of saying the horrific visuals and stuff so what did you guys think the second watch uh joseph while in the car he was just like i loved it yeah well the first time I saw it, I missed the Railroad Cat song Yeah Skimble Shank

Skimble Shank So I was, due to all the wine, was in the toilet Not puking Shitting, Tim Shitting, yeah Doing classic wine shits As they're known But this time I refrained, I was on the sparkling water

And, which still causes massive shit. But I held it in to see the rail. And yes, it's the railroad song that really ties it all together. Isn't it, though? No. It's a marker. The arrival of Skimbleshanks is the beginning of the ride home. Because Skimbleshanks comes out, he's the railway cat,

and he fucking lays down the gauntlet. He says, we're here for a good time. Go ahead. No, I thought. And then Skimbleshanks finishes. He disappears. And then what is it? We go to the barge pretty soon after that.

No, no. So then Taylor Swift comes in, and that's a little bit of momentum for mine. They sing the Macavity song, and Idris Elba shows up, and it's a showstopper at the end. And also I thought Idris Elba was doing fantastic work today. And then they take Judi Dench to the barge, and you're like, okay, well, if Judi Dench is at the barge, that can only mean one fucking thing.

It's time for the magical Mr. Mistoffelees. And once he's done his bit, he gets Judi Dench back. Then you're into fucking memories. Bang. How about that? And then you're pretty much done. You've just got to watch Judi Dench back Then you're into fucking memories Bang How about that And then You're pretty much done You just gotta watch Judi Dench You were talking about

So many long numbers Those are the good Those are all good numbers It's the interstitials That I think you might have I agree It feels like When you get to

Schimbles Skimbleshanks You fucking learn his name Skimbleshanks The Railway Cat It does feel like It's ramping up on the way home, and then you have to sit through so much more. Skimble Shanks is a good song because he's a hard worker,

and he's the only person that talks about employment. Everyone else is a twist on either I'm fat or I'm a thief. I noticed it today. Because, you know, the whole conceit right is that you take a characteristic seen in a cat and then apply it

to some human thing. Yes. But almost all of them are they steal shit. Yeah. Like Mr. Mistoffelees is like, I steal this,

I steal that, that makes me a magician. And then McCavity's like, I steal this, I steal that, that makes me, I guess, a criminal

worthy of, you know, like a real bad guy. And then you've got Mumbo Jerry and Rumble. And we steal things. That's a bit of fun, I guess. And there's like 12 different core cats, but only kind of four character types. There's thief, magician, or faded stage star. And fat, you forgot. And fat, sorry, yeah.

And there's multiples of all of those things, and that's it. Correct. It's really weird. There's only one stage cat, isn't there? No, there's two, because Jennifer Hudson's character, Grisabella, is this faded star of the stage, and so is Gus. Can I quickly say, for the fourth screening in a row, the crescendo of memories gave me goosebumps.

No! I want to hear Laura Daniel talk about Jennifer Hudson's performance. Jennifer Hudson's performance of memory is one of the worst things I've ever seen. Oh! Would you say it to her face? Yes. Daniel! I don't think I'll ever have the opportunity

Why was it bad? Not with a bad mouth like that Yeah They wouldn't let me near her What's beef? What's the issue? What's my issue with it is She's got

So she does this thing Where it's all emotion But no connection to the song Or what she's singing Huh So the song should have Lots of Like Tones of of light and shade.

She's like an old glamour cat. There were good bits, and that's what she's singing. She's singing about the memory. So there's happy memories in there. There's sad memories in there. It's not I'm crying right from the start and got boogers out my nose. That's a good point.

There's no dynamicism to the performance. There is no change. It's just all the whole one note. And then she also does this thing where she over-enunciates some of the words See I forgive the over enunciation Because I always chalk that up to being a musical theatre thing That you need to be able to hear what the lyrics are

Because it pisses me off that You can't in quite a few of these songs You can't in quite a few of these songs And I mark the cats down If I can't hear every syllable They get points taken off I would say The music of

Memory though Is quite an easy one To follow Because the words Are quite slow The words are quite Dragged out So you don't need to go

She says let Weird I don't know what I love this Laura like grabbed my arms When I listened to that Let I heard you

Like midway through Memory Just saying She sucks Which is not something You expect to hear I'm trying to listen to that left. I heard you, like, midway through memories just saying, she sucks. Which is not something you expect to hear about Jennifer Hudson. Recently cast as Aretha Franklin in the biopics by Aretha Franklin. Well, she's a very talented performer and, like, love her otherwise. Love her other work. Chills when she sings I Am Telling You in Dreamgirls.

What did you think of her in Sex and the City 2? Sex and the City 1. Sex and the City 1, sorry. Can't say I've seen it. Okay, true. Just a couple of the films. She does okay. What about when they hit you with the crash zoom?

I noticed that one of the big techniques to guarantee I enjoy a song in this movie is that they'll use all of the instruments, whereas in a lot of the other songs and musical bits they'll only use perhaps one or two instruments that don't sound like the instruments they sound like thin sort of synthy versions of a horn section like when you push trumpet on the keyboard and then you're playing the trumpet yeah but then in that they have a big crescendo and just to make sure that i get goosebumps they also have their version of a crash zoom on Jennifer Lawrence and this big sort of swell.

Yeah, yeah, Jennifer Lawrence is in the film. So is that what gives you the goosebumps? Yeah, it's every time they hit that. And if I listen to it separate from watching the film, I'm sure it would do the same thing. Maybe it's the orchestra then. Maybe it's the instrumentation. It's the same moment in the film.

Yeah. But it's her performances. She gets the credit for doing it. Okay. Agree to disagree I feel like the one Great moment of the song is when she hits the big note Is that the bit that you're talking about

Where she gets What's the line Memory That's when everything That's when everything's happening And it's like There's a big key change It's like

Yeah yeah It's a final like Big Yeah yeah That's exactly the bit Yeah yeah It's like It's the trailer

It's fucking It's what It's what they do It's what it says on the tin As musicians Do you guys consider that A bit of a gimme Cause it's like

Everything's on your side To make that a big moment But it works You know Lloyd Webber's He's the king's like everything's on your side to make that a big moment. But it works, you know. Lloyd Webber, he's the king, you know. You do not think that. He's the king.

We just saw Phantom of the Opera in New York. I've not seen that. I only know the one song. Yeah, I don't know anything about Phantom. What song do you know, Guy?

Dun! Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun! Well, that song comes up many times. And guess what, Guy? You'd love it. You know why? Because when they play that song comes up many times. And guess what, guys? You'll love it. You know why?

Because when they play that song, all the instruments. Oh, yeah. It's so good when they use all the instruments. It's got a lot of good sense in it. Lloyd Webber loves a, what's it called, a refrain or a prize? Yeah. They're always in there, and it means you can have a little sing to a different song during just like a little instrumental ballet bit. Yeah.

It's fun. Do you know much about Andrew Lloyd Webber because we've kind of seen scraps that he's a baddie online he's a Tory right yeah which is so bizarre sorry

conservative party a British conservative he was like in parliament as a was he in parliament or the house of lords yeah he's a lord he's got some sort of

special privilege that he sort of uses at his leisure. They get castle powers. Yeah. It's how it works in Britain. He comes back and he says, this is my opinion on this. Yeah. It doesn't surprise me after watching the plot of The Phantom.

Tell us about it. Well, The Phantom essentially lives in the bottom of the theatre. And he seduces a girl. He grooms her from a young age teaches her how to sing here's something i didn't know about it he's not a ghost what is he just a guy he's a guy who dresses up as a ghost he's just got a demented face like a villain from uh scooby-doo yeah yeah turned out the phantom was just a regular pedophile the whole time he calls himself a an angel of music but everyone else calls him a ghost.

And he takes her down to his dungeon and then he can control her mind. What? And then he writes lots of passive-aggressive notes to the owners of the theatre to get rid of... Stop eating my toasted sandwiches. Stop heating up fish in the microwave. Essentially, so much of the musical is notes getting sent

to the office of the theatre and then they sing them out. There's no dialogue. He kills a few people along the way. Yeah, of course. And then he takes Christine at the end because Christine's engaged to someone else. Hey, spoilers, spoilers. If you're planning on seeing Phantom of the Opera,

maybe skip forward about 30 to 60 seconds, but go on. He takes Christine back down and then puts her into a wedding dress and forces her to marry him. This seems bad. I like that her name's Christine because in New Zealand, the name Christine to me just rings as very like Kiwiana. Christine. It's Christine. Auntie Christine.

I've got an Auntieie christine she's not like that at all what are we but are we rooting for the phantom he's he's a tortured hero kind of the vocal scoring is so good that yeah with that voice you're rooting for him hey spoilers over everyone speaking of like okay because we're sort of in the zone of problematic content i was umming and ahhing about whether or not to bring this up but on the car i was Spoilers over, everyone. Speaking of like, okay, because we're sort of in the zone of problematic content, I was umming and ahhing about whether or not to bring this up. But in the car, I was thinking out loud with my wife Zoe about this. There's some serious racial profiling that's happened in the casting of this movie.

Thank you. Like, all of the black people are bad. Yeah, they're either like kind of rapists or stealing yeah cats or or they're jennifer hudson and everyone hisses at them when they come out exactly and i'll counter it with this gone um victoria the lead cat is black um the actress but they've white faced her dude and not and not yeah the guy looks shocked but obviously character is literally Victoria the white cat. She is, and she is a white cat, and I get that. It's very important we abide the laws of the cat universe,

which is so fucking clearly laid out from the jump. Also, can I highlight the fact that they are so disconnected from staying with the rules that Macavity is listed in a song as being tall and orange, and it's completely brown. And also, Macavity sings a in a song as being tall and orange and it's completely brown. And also Macavity sings a song about how he's black from his ears to his tail while he's got a perfectly white face and chest. No, that's Mistoffelees.

Sorry, Mr. Mistoffelees. So... It's theatrical license though, isn't it? Back to Frankie Hayward, our leading lady, who's Victoria. So I went back and actually watched the trailer to compare because I was like, I think because I've been watching quite a lot of interviews with all the cast they've caucasianed

her hands you know how everyone gets human hands in the movie which is a weird decision i'm furious about that why you can you can put paws on it takes you right out of it eh and they've got a varying level depending on which character on where they feather how far down the hand they feather the fur to stop and the human hand to start. Like Serena McKellen Dame Judi Dench, Jason Derulo and I can't remember who else have just got perfectly human like unfettered

Judi Dench has her wedding ring on. Yeah it's really prominent. But with Victoria right, they have, so not only is she the cat bit of your white but they've changed her hands to be white person which makes me very uncomfortable i truly had no no knowledge that the actor who plays victoria was not white yeah she's so african she's born in kenya so so convinced by the cgi job they've done

well they have done something right then. Well, I mean, they've executed something successfully that doesn't make it right. Oh, you know, I mean, I... There's no reason why Rum Tum Tugger has to be Jason Derulo, right? No. All the casting decisions back up this thing of, like, does Tom Hooper fucking hate black people for some reason? Well, no, the Rum Tum Tugger is not meant to be a shit character.

What do you guys think of the Rum Tum Tugger? The song? Well, he's a terrible bore. I feel like that's the one I hear you sing around the house the most. Yeah, well, I'm kind of taken by the songwriting choice. Maybe it's more T.S. Eliot's fault than it is Lloyd Webber's, but the kind of method of him saying, if you give me one thing, i'd rather have another thing and the next lyric being just that flipped with

no creative spin on it but the biggest singing is so like it's like if you give me a dog i'd rather have a mouse if you give me a mouse i'd rather have a dog and so i've taken around the house to uh doing that with real life situations. If you give me Sky Sport, I'd rather have ESPN. If you give me ESPN, I'd rather have Sky Sport. You're not singing the song. You're just playing the game. Yeah, yeah.

It's a fun game. And I don't know whether I love it or hate it, but it's certainly memorable that they'd be so bold to do that so many times throughout the song. I despise the song i hate the instrumentation for it and after they do the big dance for prize and they're halfway through and it's quite serious when they first enter the egyptian and then you hear like that fucking seinfeld bass and jason derulo shows up it's a time to party with your permission

and then does his little i'm just like fuck off fuck off. What a waste of Jason Derulo. Well, well, well, well, well. I did actually think that the performance in Rum Tum Tugger was pretty spot on Jason Derulo. Because you know how there's all those trills at the end of the song? He's like, wow. Jason Derulo does a spot on Jason Derulo. Yeah.

He's ripping a falsetto at the end of Mr. Mistoffelees. Yes. And that is what he's like. We've seen him live twice. And that is what he's like. He's a a falsetto at the end of Mr. Mistoffelees. Yes. And that is what he's like. We've seen him live twice, and that is what he's like. He's a showman. He's an absolute showman. He got called out because he was tweeting very proudly, boasting that they had to digitally remove his penis from this movie.

And then all the other male customers were like, yeah, they did it to all of us, dude. You've got Idris Elba looking As naked as a Ken doll But it's just Flat ass down there Like you're not Unique in this regard My friend

He's I I should have known He was American But I found his British accent So It's hammy But it was so convincing

I had to I had to check And I was like Oh he's from Florida Who knew Oh Florida Oh Florida Is he

And he got a fucking Huge laugh For his look On the Mistoffelees Failed reveal You know when they Oh yeah The cutaway

They got a big laugh Also I'll say this Rebel Wilson Crushed it tonight She was killing it I felt that Smashed it It was unheard of

In all of her sides Which usually Fucking fall Totally flat Cause yeah She flopped at the premiere And I was feeling bad for her And I was feeling bad For the cat suit To come after her sides which usually fucking fall totally flat because yeah she flopped at the premiere and i was feeling bad for her and i was feeling bad for the cat suit to come after her because they're

hearing how badly she's doing oh god they're waiting on the wings rough crowd um did you guys have a favorite bit of cats the second second screening? I have something that I... Yeah. I really like the beginning, the song, what's it called? The Naming of Cats. Jellicle Cats. Just the bit where I've read in the musical notes, it's described that everyone has to say it at a different pitch

and there's no music. This is not Jellicle Cats. This is the second song, We're not in the cemetery and not one of your summertime games yeah it's it's eerie but um there's a bit i love in it um where they just go ham on the adjectives yes i've actually got some in front of me yeah yeah please uh practical cats dramatical cats Pragmatical cats Fanatical cats No this is Jellicle cats This is Absolutely jellicle cats Either or

It happens in jellicle cats Delphiorical cats Don't know that word Skeptical cats Look I can't even There's so many And here's

And it's so It promises so much At the beginning Yes It's a set You think it's a set up Are they going to deliver On every single one of these adjectives? And they said, no, they've just got...

I'm looking for a political cat. I'm looking for a statistical cat. I'm looking for an analytical cat. A metaphorical cat. The other thing is, the other Chekhov's gun in this is they set up, they put so much emphasis on the naming of cats and the fact that every cat's got three names and it's all focused on Victoriaoria like it's sung to her and then the music stops and there's a big dance

number as they're like contemplating the meaning of this you're like fuck i wonder what victoria's name's gonna be at the end there's no there's no way yeah there's no way it could be a satisfying moment when she announces it at the end in the stage musical victoria's a silent role they've like added all that stuff in for the movie. Right. So she doesn't talk. She doesn't talk at all. No, she doesn't have a song.

Because I knew that they added that Taylor Swift song for her. Ghosts. And might I say, that hit me hard tonight. Ghosts. I was there for the whole ride. It's gorgeous.

Previously, I've not thought about it. But I listened to all of it. I bought into the backstory. I empathized with Victoria. It was a real breakthrough for Victoria and for me. Zoe picked up a glitch that I'm going to look forward to trying to see next time as well, which I haven't seen so far. Oh, I picked up one tonight.

Where did you sit? Where did your one go? I saw one. Victoria was wearing the railway hat in the bed, and then they cut back to her. She's not wearing it. They go to someone else. They cut back to her.

She's wearing it again, and they take it off her head, but it all happens very fast. I thought I saw that, but then I gave them too much credit, and I thought that explained it away with some hat tossing. Don't give them too much credit. You've seen the cockroaches' faces, right? Yeah. If you watch those cockroaches'aches feet they are not hitting the ground

neither are a lot of the cat's feet we're then out dancing on the streets on the cobbled streets of whatever this terrifying london town is called london but it's not very explicit it's not this is like a subterranean london this is because when, I don't know. Is it? Don't they have like really big British landmarks there? They do, they have big Benin stuff, but I think it's exactly the same. It just exists hundreds of kilometres beneath. It's just because of the hellish tone that you've been subjected to seeing the set in.

We see one human, which I think was a big mistake. Yes. Because if we didn't see that, we could just pretend they live in fantasy London where a where a cat seno is a normal thing yeah to have because these human now we are confirmed that humans live by day in this world do they walk around go why is it called a cat seno yeah why would we name our bar like the milk i feel like we see like when we see the sign change from moriarty to mcavity when idris alba is introduced as mcavity sitting on top of a giant billboard that is the moment that represents the world or the town or the city of london changing into the cat now because we've

already seen cat seno before that see zoe articulated this very well. She was like, she said they either needed to make everything cat-sized and human-themed or human-themed or like the reverse of that. But they fucked it up because like... The scales are so off. It's cat-themed, but it's human-sized, which doesn't make any sense. It's like these humans are walking around building structures to the cats. The problem that you're running into is cats is not meant to be it's not meant to be in a position to be analyzed how dare you to be put under this much scrutiny it's just not like you're

allowed it's a hundred million dollar movie it's been kicking around for 40 years you're allowed to scrutinize this that's the mistake though is you do not adapt the cats as it to a film like from the from the jump it's a big you just you shouldn't do it and yeah and like i guess they were proved right nah fuck you guys i actually reckon they got pretty close i think the visual decisions that they made like they should have gone i maintain with teenage mutant ninja turtles from the 90s films style suits makeup like the theater shows film a movie production of that. The casting was pretty good.

I agree with that. The performances, pretty good. Have you seen the film Chicago? Yes. All the musical numbers take place in their heads. And like, so they're going about their day and then all of a sudden they're on a stage, there's an audience, you know, they merge it.

Maybe this film could be, okay, here's my pitch. Go on. Actual cats walking around. They walk around and they bang into each other and stuff. You chuck some cats in front of a camera, see what they get up to, and then we do a close-up on the cat's head

and it drifts into his fantasy or hers, fantasy world where they then present the song in the current CGI style that we see. At the end, you hear the applause of the audience cut back to the world, and it's just a cat having a walk around. Do you think the cat, like, extra layer there,

do you think the cat looks at its owner and then the owner's playing the cat in its head? Like, you know? Oh, like Wizard of Oz style. Yeah. Like, have the actors... And you were there, and you were there. Where do you imagine the cat in its head? Like, you know? Oh, like Wizard of Oz style. Yeah. Like, have the actors... And you were there, and you were there. Yeah, okay.

Where do you imagine the cat... So the cats that are real cats that we're watching, where are they? Normal houses. London, sure. Are they all together, or is it just cats? Maybe it could be set in a cattery. That's good.

That works. Yeah, it's a cattery. It's a rural cattery. I need a location and a reason all the cats are together. London, cattery. That's good. That works. It's a cattery. It's a rural cattery. I need a location and a reason all the cats are together. London, cattery. An hour out of town.

They're all in these cages. They're in cages? Yeah, because they need escapism through like magical realism. You're in a cage most of the time in a cattery, I'm sure.

Surely. What is a cattery? It's like a pound, but for cats. Well, no, it's where you take your cat when you go on holiday. Yeah, it's like a pound, isn't it? No, where you take your cat When you go on holiday And you leave it Yeah it's like a pound isn't it

No a pound's When your dog's Bloody stealing some fish Out of the rubbish bin And a guy with a big net Comes and gets him Wait what That's actually his dog jail

No that's the pound Yeah I know But it's like You don't go Oh we're off to Noosa For another weekend Let's take our dog to the pound No

He's gonna get killed Well yeah Unless you want free dog care And you take it its collar off when you give it a fucking taste for fish what's that thing called when you put a dog that's not been like kennels oh you're fucking right you've got a dog you should know um something i noticed on second watch was because you were talking about the hands before how they give them human hands that was one of my pet peeves the first time i saw it second time i watched it i was like well i think they've give them human hands. That was one of my pet peeves the first time I saw it. Second time I watched it, I was like, well, I think they've left the human hands on there as a choice because if you're,

all the dancing is ballet dancing. So they need to be able to make long lines. Yes. So the hand finishes the line. So that's why they've got the human hand. I think you're totally right. But wouldn't it be stunning if they could? But they sing about having paws.

CGI will get there, that we can do a beautiful ballet line with a paw. Should we have waited? Should we have waited? You know, Joseph, I think that we would have, but this movie is going to represent a huge speed bump on the journey to perfectly balletic CGI'd paws.

Any money they were investing in that technology, they'll get cold feet. I think the decision to keep the human hands, while it's jarring, it's like if we take every other decision as locked in, I think it's good to have the human hands because it reminds you that this isn't a completely CGI figure. Yeah, and because if it were the human hands,

I'd be going, well, those are cats. I can't i can't help but feel and somewhat empathize with tom hooper and whatever you know army of fucking baffled decision makers that were by his side just like the feeling of the mounting difficulty and maintaining a through line of logic and rules that sort of bind the world together it's just like the hands and then they're on all fours and up on their feet. Just like so many things just building on top of each other until all of them feel totally inconsequential. And they're just like, we'll just make decisions now and we'll live with them.

You've got to make a call on every single one of them. It's like, how much human face do we have? Do they go on all fours? How do they interact with each other? Are they cat-like? Do they nuzzle? I think someone early on was like ah it's theater right it's theater it doesn't matter that's angel but what they didn't realize is it's not theater

it's the movies and people can go as many times as they want in a week yeah yeah i i yeah i i totally agree it's it's the movie thing that makes it so so challenging like and i i still think that cats people who like cats, they won't maybe love the musical, but they will get probably what they want from it. Also though, wouldn't it kill, like because they're breaking some rules

and deviating from the original text somewhat, it wouldn't have killed them to insert just a little bit of dialogue, just like a minute between songs where they sort of just outline what's happening. So there's something- You're getting quite exhausted, don't you? Something to drive you through. It's just like, well, they just keep introducing of just outline what's happening so there's something quite exhausted something to drive you through it's just like well they just keep introducing new cats and i'm like well i bet you're gonna sing and then they inevitably do we saw chicago the the musical in a couple weeks ago and i was only familiar with the film and when

i saw the live show i was surprised that there's like eight songs that aren't in the movie and they work on the stage show because there's two and a half hours and you just you're on broadway you're happy to be peppered with songs that's why you're there but in the movie they definitely pulled some back and i think in this one they were like let's add a song again i reckon that was a good decision. Because if you just had Victoria rolling around and she didn't have her own song, you come out of that movie being like, what the fuck was that about?

Yeah. So I think that was good. Yeah, but as it exists, you come out of the film and you think, oh, yes, that's what that movie was about. There's something you could have pulled back. Ray Winstone explaining who he is on the boat. That shit is hot garbage. all the barge stuff is added right that's not in the musical the song the song on the barge is in the musical and that's the only

time we go to the barge ray winston's like ramping up to getting into that so you're like this man is not a singer and this song is not a song i would like starts talking and instruments start playing by me like okay you can say what you will about him but he was actually my jellicle choice and this song is not a song. He just starts talking and instruments start playing behind him. You're like, okay. You can say what you will about him, but he was actually my Jellicle choice today. I thought Growl Tiger. You're insane. Well, he was true to himself.

What does that mean? He was a true cat to himself. He sang as best he could, which was talking in a gruff voice. He outlined who he is. And I was like, do you know what i'm having a good time the growled tiger seems to be enjoying himself have you have you seen the footage of ray winstone doing motion capture for beowulf the film okay so ray winstone was in a an early mocap movie called beowulf we played think, every character. It was an astonishing uncanny valley feat

that they made maybe 10, 15 years ago. Yeah, I remember it. But one of the characters he plays is a dragon, but not even like a humanoid dragon, just a dragon. And there's footage online of him strapped up in a harness so he can fly like a dragon. And he's going, just to him in in a human and he looks at the camera and goes the things i do for money and i reckon that experience someone would have had to be like now

look it's not going to be like bear wolf and they've really they've really got look you're not going to have to embarrass yourself in any way uh you just come along don't don't bother learning to sing it's it's gonna be uh absolutely harmless and i wonder how they tricked him into doing it all again can i ask both of you i'll direct this to you actually laura daniel um so because i've been consuming all of these interviews with the cast there's two competing theories because they always get asked what they think the plot of cats is and there's two competing theories one is that it's all of them competing to get chosen as the jellicle choice where they um get to be reborn into another life but then there's another theory that's cropped up which is it's the cat that is allowed to die that's what the jellicle choice is oh which of

those do you back based on the information you got in the movie? Based on, especially the second time watch. It's the first one, I'm pretty sure. Sort of reincarnation. Yeah, because they've got a line in there about, like, I'm going to be reborn as a... Oh, he wants to be reborn so he can come back thin and get fat again. The more I thought about it, the more the, like,

allowing a cat to die thing starts to make sense to me. Oh, really? Well, like Gus is really ancient. And even old Deuteronomy is really old. They refer to multiple times to them being alive

during Queen Victoria's reign. Yeah. What year is it set in? 2019. Boxing day. So I guess that makes the second one make sense These cats are hundreds of years old And it's like they're imprisoned there And even like Grizabella who ultimately is the Jellicle choice

She seems like imprisoned by her immortality Like she's just this pained existence Right You know shuffling along the streets and she wants to be released and when she goes on the balloon she fucks off to die. Like that's visually what we're seeing. Yeah, they just want to get put down. Totally. Which is so

dark. What can I do, Grizabella? On the other side of those clouds is a vet with a giant needle. Well, I kind of thought it's a bit similar because they're going to get reborn. They have to die first. So one cat is going off to die.

I overthought this, but I thought what they should have done is rolled with that. And to complete the plot a little bit, Victoria is this young cat who gets cast asunder by her owners. She should be, it's revealed revealed a reborn jellicle choice human religion is is like a parallel then we often use rebirth as a you know as a kind of silver lining to death so i i kind of think it's the second one and that's what it is like they all talk of the rebirth but no one's seen it happen. No one's come up and sung their song.

They're like, who are you? I'm the reborn Mr. Mistoffelees. But don't you think it's that they think they're going to be reborn? Yeah, but they're not. That's the view I hold. That's why I'm saying it's both. For how good they feel when they get chosen, they've got a fucking long

time to second guess it while the balloon's slowly drifting up into the atmosphere. They're like, what am i doing wait a second well i kind of like it down there um is it that whole nine lives thing is that what that's yeah yeah that's a huge part of it so that i think the idea is that all of these cats we don't know how far through their lives a lot are but like that they are cashing in their. They're saying this life is ruined in some respect. Yeah. Something has gone awry. Because I think Gus is an obvious example,

and I was speculating yesterday of someone who's like, he's lived through the best years of his life. That's what his whole song is about. And so if he is the Jellicle Choice, he will get to experience all of that stuff anew. I don't know what connection to the memories he's built as Gus he will carry with him into his new life. But like, so Grizabella, I feel like it's almost cruel that she is the

Jellicle choice because I feel like, you know, after being cast aside by so many of the cats for one mistake that she made previously, as soon as she gets sort of acceptance and all of them understand her perspective and she's redeemed, they go, all right, now fuck off. You're right, Guy. This is what they're asking. But don't you think that means the tone of some of the other songs is way off?

Because the shimble skanks. Skimble shanks. You've got one shot a year to move Judi Dench to tears. So she sends you off. And your song's like, I love eating fish. But see, I think Buster for Jones is just a showman's cat. He doesn't actually want to get chosen.

He just wants everyone to know he's a fucking hungry boy. Because that's all he does. He goes, I'm Buster for Jones. And also, James Corden had a great outing today. He was killing. And I don't grow tired of him as a cat. Man, I hate him as a human being because of certain things I've heard about the man. But he fucking nails it in this movie.

Their little improv asides that they're like, yeah, we'll keep all of those in. With Rebel Wilson. Yeah. They are a highlight. So whenever they're like in the back of the barge when they're chained up together, that was shooting across like three days. And they just got beanbags or something and got in a real comfortable position and just fucked off.

Fair enough. It's good to take a couple days off in the middle of a $100 million film that so far has lost 40 mil. Do you guys reckon Grizabella cheats the system a bit? Because at the beginning, it's clearly stated by, and I can't remember

his name the narrator cat Robert Downey Jr. the third it's stated by him we've got to learn his name we really don't

he looks like a young Robert Downey Jr. he's a cat don't you think I think it's Robbie it doesn't matter I'll find out he's very sexual

it'll be Robert Downey the third and he's got a big expressive face and he can fucking move the guy's a fantastic dancer he can move that much he's from the Royal Ballet Theatre I he's a He can fucking move The guy's a fantastic dancer He can move that much It's from the Royal Ballet

Theatre I believe They're all real horny In the movie don't you reckon He clearly Yeah it's a horny film When Victoria asks What What must they do

To be the jealous of Victoria She goes They must sing a song And state who they are And what they do And what they do No mention of it From Grizabella

She Well no Big time mention of it She laments Theella Well no, big time mention of it She laments the mistakes of her past Nah, but she's not saying who she is or what she does Doesn't say Grizabella once in the song The other cats do, remember? When they're like hissing her away at the start

They all sing about Grizabella Yeah, but I reckon you've got to do it And that's also why McKevitt, he was never He's hired Taylor Swift to kind of do most of the leg work In his song, so that's why why McKevitt, he's hired Taylor Swift to kind of do most of the leg work in his song. So that's why he was never going up. If I told you the lead male character was called Munkustrap, would you be surprised? I would be surprised.

No, I wouldn't be surprised. That is the name of that cat. Munkustrap. It's Munkinstrap, isn't it? To go back earlier, Tim, you said before you wish Victoria said her name at the end. Yeah, like because of the setup of the three names. Of course. What is a name that she could have announced in the final scene that would have made you go...

Ramble Pramble. Wow, that's a satisfying film. I'm going by the rule book of what has been laid down so far in this fucking bizarre fever dream of a coke-fuelled nightmare of a musical. Bramble Bramble seems pretty... And my name is Bramble Bramble! The white face cat.

Oh, gosh. I can't remember. I'd like to ask Oh no Laura You go ahead No I was just Inserting a little fun fact Headass Stelter Goodrum

Played Grizabella On one of the Broadway shots Oh wow It should be good Yeah Or maybe it was Melbourne I remember I saw

I remember I was watching An episode of Neighbours One lazy afternoon As a younger boy, and one of the characters had a piano and played a song called Born to Try. And I was like, whoa, this actor's got pipes. Later on, that woman grew up to be Delta Goodrum. First single released, Born to Try.

She buried her own single inside of the character of Neighbours. It's incredible. Yeah. Anyway. Joseph Moore, can I please get from you your Jellicle choice of the screening? Oh, my Jellicle choice will have to be Rebel Wilson. Wow. Yeah.

She did not do it for me the first time I saw it. Because the first time I saw the film, that was when I had no idea what it was about. I didn't know the musical. And I leaned over to Laura, who did know the musical, and I said, is this the whole movie?

Because she's the first cat to introduce herself. And I was shocked, and I was just, my head, you know, my head was all a mess of snot and fear,

as I knew, because I knew I had a two-hour kind of running time. So I kind of ignored her, but I thought she really delivered tonight and the crowd were loving, were loving her. Um,

so it, it, it made me see her from a different light. Jenny, any dots takes it out. Jenny, any dots embrace the material. And,

uh, I have a big heart in mind. Yeah. So she's my angelical choice. And also I, I think I disagree with Judy Denton's take on it. I think it's all about,

you know, I like having a bit of fun. So she gets a new life. She, she, she gave the crowd some laughs and that's all you need sometimes. You know what's

fucked up though? They directly ask you because she puts on these great shows involving the mice and the cockroach slash beetles, depending on if you listen to the

song or watching what's happening on screen um her sole reason for wanting to be the jellicle choice is to get out of the kitchen yeah but she leaves the kitchen yeah but she she's always tied to that place you know she's not gonna sleep on the seems weak um hey can before i ask ld's choice jellicle choice, what do you think of Rebel Wilson's singing? Because I famously have hated her in every watch that I've seen so far. Timur's best known for hating Rebel Wilson's performance is Jenny Annie Dotson. It's what I'm most famous for. Okay, sorry, I didn't realise I was coming in with such a controversial choice. Don't ever apologise, because I actually feel real guilty.

I feel bad about my own mistake. I think she's perfectly fine. Well, it's because the singing's done live, right? And so she's not a strong live singer. So, like, you know, if you're hearing, like, Pitch Perfect or something, that's, like, just pitched in order to... They put that beautiful processing, which Tom Hooper famously avoids to create the perfect movie.

I kind of think that's good, though. Especially with Francesca Haywood, who, as Guy noted, is a dancer who sings Rather than a singer But like you kind of I don't know It feels like you get more out of it Because you really hear her raw voice

There's more earnest charisma Yeah Well that's what I thought Because there's that Give that mic in your mouth Oh sorry When he does Les Mis What's the song that Anne Hathaway sings

And they're in that like one shot I Dreamed a Dream I Dreamed a Dream You know beautiful performance And it's all done live and all that Hathaway sings and they're in that like one shot. I dreamed a dream. I dreamed a dream, you know, beautiful performance and, and it's all done live and all that. And I think that's what they were going for with memory. And it just didn't quite take that same journey that old Hathaway managed to

do. What I read is that on Les Mis, he didn't use a clicker, like a metronome, which is a fucking nightmare for production after the fact. And I suspect it happened in this as well because judy dench is like and actually in mckellen they're singing like the timing changed heaps and it felt like the orchestra kept having to yeah sort of start

you can hear it and that's why they have these big long takes because if they cut to anywhere else they'll just be singing it at a completely different speech he hadn't finished the movie right before the premiere? 36 hours before it first got scraped like it's premiere he was making cuts to it Yeah I read today I think someone said how did you enjoy the premiere?

and he said I finished it at 8am this morning or something and then the reviewer was like well you should have done better anyway you piece of shit Laura Daniel who is your choice my jellicle choice was um actually this time around taylor swift oh whoa bomb bombina she's not even pitching herself though yeah that's right so well here's the thing so she plays a cat i think it's called bomba bina or something something like that And she should be in every song, but because it's Taylor Swift,

she's just there for one. Do you reckon that's because she flew in for two days filming? Yeah, and I was thinking about it. I'm like, power to her, you know? She's as annoying as fuck as she is. She's managed to secure in her contract that she gets the biggest CGI boobs. Yeah. And that's full respect to her.

Huge time. Full respect to her. Full respect to her. So she comes in Takes the number Derulo can't manage that With his cock No

And he tries Whereas Taylor Swift comes in And she just comes in Big burbed Yeah And just goes for it Well I didn't Like the first time I watched it

I hated her performance Of Macavity Because I think Macavity Should be like a real Kind of jazzy song And she'd be like Macavity Macavity

Rather than like a smoky Sexy version It should be more like Showtrance She kind of does itzy song and she'd be like Macavity, Macavity. Rather than like a smoky, sexy version it should be more like show trance. She kind of does it a bit British-y. Yeah, her accent's a bit dicey.

But then I've listened to the original Broadway, well, through, you know, force because Joseph plays it all the time. You have to say

the original Broadway car. And it's actually not that far off so watching it on a second time I'm like, let's be less harsh on old Tay-Tay.

Right. And I mean, yeah. She fucking pounded out that song that Victoria sings in a day with Andrew Lloyd Webber. They just shared it out in an afternoon. Respect, man. It's a good song. Yeah. My Jellicle Choice, I'm going to fuck up his name again.

Skimple Shanks? Yeah, the railway cat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know that we're not supposed to count him because the song is such a fucking banger that it's almost unfair to the rest of them. But what I noticed in this watch was that he is constantly polishing his shoes in the back of every shot before he does the song.

Yeah, I saw that too. And it is the best. Because Guy and I have gravitated so heavily to that song, it has become this Chekhov's gun to keep seeing him preparing himself to do this number that we know we're going to love and sing along to. He comes out and he absolutely

kicks it out of the park. So I've been like, Kat has been growing on me quite a lot over the last four days. I've been playing a lot at home. I've been putting on the songs and doing little shows for Chelsea. And she fucking hates it.

And I did a performance this morning that she was really against and we went to the movies and i didn't enjoy as much as i did yesterday i was battling quite a lot of negative energy in the cinema today and i was going out and joseph was saying that was terrible i like just didn't like any of it and i was like but there were some bangers in there like you got to love that and just all of it, just like totally rejected, like best of a bad bunch sort of thing. Like there are life rafts. And I mean, you know,

it's so nice to be amongst people who are talking positively about, you know, some of the accomplishments. And accordingly, I'd like to say I do, I feel like a Jellicle cat today. And Tim, for the first time this week, I think you're actually, you've got what it takes to be a Jellicle cat. Do I qualify?

Joseph Moore, Jellicle Cat. LD, I'm really sorry, but I just don't think... I feel like your body language in the cinema was not Jellicle Cat-like. Your attitude towards Jennifer Hudson was not very Jellicle-like. I mean, yeah, but it's really nice for you amongst Jellicle Cats. And also, of course, lovely Laura. Quick shout-out. I better for you amongst Jellicle Cats and also, of course, lovely Laura. Quick shout out. Happy to not be a Jellicle Cat.

Quick shout out as well to our musical accompaniment on this episode. Billy Idol performing live very close to my house. 600 metres from where we're recording. That's him right now. Is it white waiting? Oh, it might be. I mean, they can't hear it. All I can hear is the drums.

Thank you for joining us on this, the fourth of seven outings. Are we doing seven? Yeah, yeah, of course. We're catching it. I mean, we couldn't have time to bed it. The day that we're going to see cats, the final, the seventh day, is the last day it's got. Now, you told me this before the podcast recording guy you do

you know how it works that on tuesday they'll release thursday onwards times so oh truly so it could be still going i mean i'm doing a lot of market research and i would be very surprised if they decide to push ahead with this one although cinema seven fucking huge upgrade for cats it also does have a screening at the Academy one week later on a Wednesday at 6pm. Which got press. That's how much this film is tanking and not being shown by anyone.

It made the paper that Academy is going to play it one night. Oh, really? Yeah. Is there anything you guys would like to encourage people to enjoy, which is not Cats, that you might have worked on together or will be working on in the future or now? We've got an Act Two Hearts, which is not cats, that you might have worked on together or will be working on in the future? We've got an act, Two Hearts, which also has songs.

You may have heard of songs. They also feature in cats. But our ones are different, or are they? They are. I feel like this year they're going to be very similar. We haven't written all our show this year yet, so I think a bit of a cat stinge. We'll be coming to Auckland, Wellington, and Edinburgh.

Certainly there'll be one person looking forward to the cat song. This Jellicle cat. You go? No. Oh, well, I was going to say, I won my seventh form talent quest with a piece on cats. The musical or the animal? No, no, no. Talent Quest With a piece on cats Oh The musical or the animal?

No, no, no I got the person that was doing The cats makeup in Palmerston North The production The production came to Palmerston North All the costumes So I got I would love to see the Palmerston North production of cats

With all of my heart It's the perfect marriage of Source material and Talent pool It was stunning I'm just remembering this fun fact And then heart. It's the perfect marriage of source material and talent pool. It was stunning. I'm just remembering this fun fact. And then we got our faces and I hired out costumes

and we all dressed as cats and we had the full cats makeup and everything and then we pranced around on stage but to the Lion King. Oh! Frosting the streams streams tell you what it won the talent quest fantastic well what a high to end on thanks for joining us everyone we'll catch you in the next one yeah we'll see you uh tomorrow episode meow meow meow meow meow