The Young Turks - Activists TAKE OVER CNN Equality Town Hall

Episode Date: October 12, 2019

Activists took over CNN's Equality Town Hall! Cenk Uygur, Ashlee Marie Preston, and John Iadarola, hosts of The Young Turks, break it down. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to the Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. Hey, guys, you've heard of the Young Turks podcast because you're listening to it right now. But make sure that you subscribe and give it a five star rating if you like it. Thank you for listening. Fine, drop it. All right, welcome the Young Turks.

We've got a power panel for you guys. Ashley Marie Preston is in. Thank you for coming in. Thanks for having me. Unlike some other networks, we will have you on. T-shay. Yes. I get that reference.

And John's also here. Okay, so Ashley Murray was in the press, obviously, yesterday for what happened in the CNN Town Hall, and we're gonna talk about that in just a minute, but we also have a big show in a thousand other ways, a little bit of drama about do we have a leading contender for vice presidential nominee if Elizabeth Warren wins, there's a lot of drama going on. So that's the presidential campaigns. Trump, of course, his usual racist self goes to Minneapolis. and rails against Somalis.

I actually did not know all of his venom against that particular group, which I now have read in great detail. And it's weird how much he hates that group more than almost any other group. Like, if you're thinking, Jake, why is that weird? They're black and they're Muslim. I hear you. I hear you. But there are other black Muslims as well, but man, he can't stand Somali Americans.

So, we're gonna get into that a little bit later, and again, unlike other networks, we will call things as they are. So if I wasn't clear enough, Donald Trump is an effing racist, 100%, 120%, and people who cheer him going, oh, yeah, Somalis, they make this place dirty, that's the kind of language they used. You're also a racist. Have I been clear enough? If not, we've got a whole other two hours to go. Okay, so I'm in that mood. John, take it away. Also, I can't believe that you didn't tease that in Trump's war on Fox, there's been a casualty today. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Implications there, but we're gonna get to that a little bit later on, why don't we start

off with the big event last night. So CNN held their forum on LGBTQ rights with a number of presidential contenders showing up yesterday, and we've got a variety of clips we're going to show you. But although there was good representation, there was not universal representation for all communities affected by the issues discussed at last night's event. And so activists stepped in to make sure that their voices and concerns were heard. To validate the pain of our transgender siblings that demonstrated earlier and that have spoken up today, especially black trans women.

I'm so sorry, I don't want to take this away from you, but let me tell you something, black trans women are being killed in this country. And CNN, you have erased black trans women for the last time. Let me tell you something, black trans women are dying, our lives matter. I'm an extraordinary black trans woman, and I deserve to be here. My black trans sisters that are here, I am tired, I am so tired. I'm just saying this. And it's not just my black trans women, and my black trans brothers too.

So Don Lemon engages the activist, and we're gonna have a little bit more on that, but I wanted to give you both a chance to step in initially. So, Ashley, Mary, you were supposed to be involved somehow in this CNN. So I want to talk about what Blossom C. Brown did there in a second. But first, let's talk about what she was referring to in black trans women being erased from this event. Right. Well, so initially, HRC and CNN had reached out to me to have me attend the event.

I really didn't want to be too much involved because there's a lot of controversy right now with HRC's new president who said some pretty controversial things in response to an op-ed of sorts from Out Magazine, and his response to the transgender community was a little bit shaky. But after careful consideration and them continuing to reach out to me and offering me to ask questions to the candidate, I figured that it was an opportunity to really engage these candidates around the issues that are specifically impacting trans women of color. That is an opportunity that doesn't come around all the time, as Blossom C. Brown alluded

to. And I was there for it. Hours before the event took place, I received a call from the producer that I had been corresponding with. And even in the opening of the call, I could hear this forced optimism in her voice. Like, she was about to deliver a blow. And she said, hey, we're so excited to meet you tonight. And it's going to be a great event. By the way, don't worry about those questions or anything like that.

But we're still excited to see you. When you come, you can find the seed. And I was like, wait, it was that blow when you know you've just been gaslighted, but you're trying to figure out like if it's like maybe I need more sleep. Maybe it's those flights back and forth. Like, did I just hear her basically cut me and then try to make it a look as though it's a beautiful thing? And so she then was like, oh, yeah, like I understand we're going to do some amazing things with you in the future. And I was like, but you just gave us a voice and then you took it away. And at a time where black trans women are disproportionately impacted by the actions of the current

administration, we need to have visibility front and center. And so a lot of blossoms rage and anger as she's been talking to other outlets about stem from people like me who, I mean, not only am I a trans activist, I'm a political analyst and cultural commentator. This is my trade. This is what I do. So the fact that I wasn't even doing something more involved to begin with, you know, even Chris Cuomo sitting there telling transphobic jokes, that could have been a seat that

had a trans woman there, you know, and it's, it was just one of those moments where I was reminded that no matter how high you think you are out in the world or in your industry, in your field, there are always those people who are there to remind you that we still have work to do. Yeah, so let me ask a couple more. First of all, HRC, a lot of people are familiar, but a lot of people aren't. It's the human rights campaign. Yes, the human rights campaign. And they were working with CNN, and they represent the LGBTQ community in a lot of ways.

Well, let's just be really specific. They typically represent wealthy, gay, white men. And so what happens is that this goes way back to the days of Enda, you know, with Barney Franken, the idea that we would just leave trans people behind. And it's just way too weird, way too confusing, way too complex. We'll come back for you all, we'll send you a postcard, happy holidays, that vibe. And so there was never any healing around that. And so what's happening, and it's not necessary.

I don't know how much of it is HRC and how much of it is just those who are involved. And it ends up informing the culture. But the truth is that there are many wealthy gay white men who use their sexuality as a shield to hide their racism, sexism, and transphobia. Peter Chills. Okay, well, he's an avid Trump supporter, so he's not hiding it very well. But there are others who claim to be in the Democratic camp, the progressive camp, and sometimes do as well.

So now what was, so you got that call from the producer slash booker. So what was your reaction? What did you decide to do? Well, it was a really awkward situation because I had already promised people I would be in attendance. So people were excited to see me. Some people had even flown in for this event. So it put me in a really peculiar situation.

situation where I had to either decide whether or not I were going to play public relations and just try to keep it cute, smooth it over, or if I were going to stay on brand, which is say it like it is, shoot from the hip, give it to them straight up, no chaser, and that's what I did. So I went to Twitter and just let people know that, hey, you know, I was excited about this, but I'm actually going to pull out. Because really, when you tell me that you want my visibility and not my voice, you are exploiting the optics. You are trying to present this false veneer that you're inclusive and we're doing this amazing thing.

But in reality, you're not. The same dynamic that we see when sometimes a black man's walking down the street and maybe a white woman across the street holding her purse, when trans women of color are in these very white, money, LGBT spaces, they take the mic and cross the street. They don't trust us. They don't know what we're gonna say. They're almost like, it's like we're like the relative that they'll let you sit at Thanksgiving dinner, but they always keep an eye on you because they don't want you to embarrass them

in front of company. And that's kind of- Well, you know, it's interesting because as you were saying that, I was thinking it's kind of like how this establishment treats voters. Like you're not allowed to talk to senators and congressmen. You're not allowed to talk to my dinner. You're not allowed to go into their office and do sit-ins. You're not allowed to communicate with them because that's uncivil, right? So we want the optics of a democracy without you guys actually having any power.

So as you were describing it, that was resonating in my head. We're like, oh yeah, hey, why don't you show up and we'll show you on camera, but don't say anything. And so I guarantee you the reaction to blossom is, see, we knew it. Yeah, but that's the thing, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. You did that because had you, we could have did this one or two ways. You could have left me in the program. We could have asked questions that were pertinent to the experience of trans people who

are disproportionately impacted, which is another thing. The fact that they have all of these, again, white, money, wealthy, privileged people talking about experiences that don't directly impact them, it's like cosplay of trauma. They're doing trauma cosplay is what's happening. And so they're like, oh, yes, we've been discriminated against, but you're building entire platforms on the backs of people who aren't invited into the room. They aren't at the table, nor are we invited into the conversation. So you're not allowed to complain about someone shouting if you never allowed them to speak

in the first place. Exactly. And so just real quick last question on that front. Did you and Blossom talk ahead of time? No. So Blossom, it's really interesting. So Blossom and I have a history. If you recall the video at Politicon, it was me, Patrice Colors of Black Lives Matter and Blossom Brown.

That's who that was. When we disrupted, it was MSNBC, Charlemagne the God. So, with Ari Melbert. And so, like, that, we have that history. But to be honest with you, contrary to popular belief, I usually don't like to be in spaces where I'm uncomfortable or that kind of possibility is present, which is why I decided to stay So Blossom, like many other people, had no idea until people started tweeting around. And while they were waiting on the program, people were like, oh, my God, Ashley's not coming.

Do you see this thing that happened? Meanwhile, back at the ranch, president and vice president of trans-Latina coalition, Bambi Salcedo and Maria Ramon Taylorson had their own demonstration with the flags when Pete Buttigieg was speaking. And then there was she a diamond. Angelica Ross was a part of that. So basically what you saw was trans women. of color as a collective saying to the community at large do better.

What we're learning is that, yes, race definitely does play a part in the discrimination that we face even within our own community, but it's a bigger conversation around class solidarity. And we saw this happen with even Ellen DeGeneres this week. Like these people who forget what it's like to be a person of marginalized experience who've now crossed the threshold, and now they are distancing themselves from the realities that we face. And in terms of, so we've been covering all of the general debates and we've been trying to know what are they talking about, what are they spending time on, what are they not mentioning,

what are they giving one question to and then moving on as quickly as they can. And I think I looked at an analysis that broke down the number of questions. I think they said there wasn't a single question that dealt with an issue specifically of concern to lesbians. I think they said there was one question that touched on the bisexual community. I think they said there might have been one that specifically addressed gender non-binary. the community. And so, and then also, when they asked you to not participate, it wasn't like, well, we understand your concerns, you want to represent your community, but don't worry,

we're going to have other people that represent the community. You sit in the audience and there's nobody. No one. And so there was a specific topic that you wanted to bring up, correct? If you had questions. There were a few, actually. So the one that they were excited about was the question that I had about TSA and about the scrutiny that trans and non-binary people experience while traveling.

Then there was foster sesta and like the conflation of sex trafficking with voluntary sex work being that we're a community that on a national average makes less than $10,000 a year. And so sex work is a means of economic stability for many trans and non-binary people. So whether we agree with it or don't agree with it, it's a very real reality that we need our candidates to be in dialogue with us about. The other question that I had was around incarcerating trans women in men's facilities. Like, there's a lot of danger and violence there, not just from the inmates, but the actual corrections officers. And then on top of it, why do we have trans women in prisons in general when literally

94% of our crimes are out of survival? So it's not us who are the criminals. It is the administration and the people who continue to intentionally block our ability to economically thrive. So, Ashley Murray, there's this pervasive irony that trans people are constantly attacked by homophobes and bigoted people, et cetera, right? And they're attacked for their choices and for who they are, their gender, and all the the things that we know.

But yet at the same time, the reason they can have work as sex workers is because that is something that folks seek out all the time. Listen, the Republican Party paid my rent for so many years, kept clothes on my back, kept food on the table, which is so interesting that literally most of these men on Capitol Hill who are legislating our lives away are actively participating in the sex work trade. and who are engaged with us. And so I think it's one of those things where when we look at what these policies should look like, they should be policies that are going to be well informed and that are going to speak truth to power

about what these dynamics look like. And so the biggest part of the evening, to be honest with you, that made a lot of us upset speaking of Blossom C. Brown was when Don Lemon had that moment in which he said to her, Listen, that's why we are all here to validate people like you. Would you like to see that? Sure. Yeah, we actually have that. No, no, no, come here.

No, no, I just want to ask you something. Come here. Tell me, come here. I want you to talk. What's your name? Blossom, let me ask. Blossom, let me ask. Blossom, thank you.

Let me tell you something. Let me, no, don't come on the stage. Don't come on the stage. May I have the mic? Okay. May I have the mic. Blossom, let me tell you something. The reason that we're here is to validate the stage.

people like you. That is why we're giving, but that is why we're here. Okay, but I... Not one black trans woman has taken the mic tonight. Not one black trans man. That's fucking. Yeah. Yeah. Hang on. We can't hear you. Blossom. We can't hear you. Here. Blossom. We can't hear you. Baby, your actions have to speak louder than words because guess what? Not one black trans woman has taken the mic tonight. Not one black trans man has taken the black, uh, the mic tonight. Yeah. Show me. Blossom, Blossom. Okay, thank you.

I appreciate it. Blossom, you're a black trans woman. You have the mic in your hand. I've taken and given it back to you. We want to hear from you. We have had trans people of color. We've had all people here, and you're welcome. But we are proud and happy that you're here.

We're proud and happy that you're here. Yes, but remember, we're on our time constraint. All right. Thank you, Blossom, and I appreciate it. Yeah, that's how anti-blackness works among people of color. That's what anti-blackness looks like. So, can you explain?

So she had a very valid point that many of us speak to. I think there should be a separation of racism and anti-blackness. In fact, racism is a byproduct of anti-blackness. It's the hatred of blackness so much that anything that falls along the spectrum is deemed in valid, unworthy or less than. And so what made it all the more upsetting. First of all, Don Lemon was speaking as if he were someone in a different orbit on a different planet like people like you. It's like, first of all, let me go ahead and educate you on a little

bit of history. You aren't there to validate black trans women. You're only standing where you are because black trans women validated you. We have people like Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, Ms. Major Griffith, like all of these pioneers who are typically those at the bottom of the totem pole. And the truth is that your fiercest warriors are going to be those who have nothing to lose but life itself. So these struggles that we face are not new. And it has always been black and brown thames in the LGBTQ community who have carried the burden and the weight of movement work on their backs.

And so Don Lemon is a perfect example of how we're starting to shift the conversation away from the race dynamics, which are there. But it's more about class solidarity. You feel that even though you are a black man and you are of queer experience or however you identify, the truth is that you still. don't have the same struggles that we do. And then to basically tell her to give you the mic and listen and you're looking down on her and you're, it just, it's one of those reminders that if we don't take the opportunity

and seize the moment, that moment will never come. So I want to clarify the audience. If you're, you know, if you're not in this community and you haven't heard some of the language around and you haven't heard some of the issues around it, it's, there's so many things you're saying Ashley Marie that I think resonate with everyone and I just wanted to focus on that. So the reason why you'll have the loudest voices and the rebels, the revolutionaries, be, usually a lot of them come from poor middle class backgrounds is because they, just like Ashley just said, because we don't have much to lose.

So you're not going to get a multi-million dollar anchor to be the revolutionary. They weren't hired for that role and they're not, they're just. That's their heart's not into it, and I don't blame them, I get it, I get it. Like, if you're making a ton of money and you're in a position of power and privilege, it's a little weird to say, yeah, let me give all that away and let's get real change, et cetera. That's how they perceive it. I think they should, but I'm not surprised that they don't. And I'm not surprised that they don't even see it.

It doesn't mean that they're necessarily bad people. It just means like, hey, wait a minute, maybe I should think about my privilege for a second. And that person that I get turned off by, why am I getting turned off by them? Well, they're speaking out of turn, but why are they speaking out of turn? Because as you were talking about, it's about class, it's about all these issues put together because nobody ever gave us our turn. But it's embarrassing and idiotic because basically you're playing step and fetch it, Don. You're basically, they just told you, hey, come get your people, that's what they did.

And so having you as a black man standing there, you may think that you've reached, you've arrived and you're at this new level of worth and value. But at the end of the day, we are all the same. They see, they, the 1% the top people who are the decision makers, the people who are closeted races, who control all of this, they still see you as the same. You're just a prop, just like you're trying to utilize us as. And I think that the other piece of it, too, that it's at the tip of my tongue, I was trying to catch a moment ago.

The other piece is that, is that I... Can I ask you one question as you, you'll recollect that in a second. So when are Republican politicians more honest, when there was sex workers or when they're out in front of a camera? Sex workers, yeah. In fact, that's how we know who to vote for. Trust black trans women this election. You know, we'll know who to vote for.

We get all of the details. I think it's just one of those things ultimately where at the end of the, you know, day, what we continue to see is how we've been shut out of spaces that are supposed to be designated for our liberation. And what I'm happy about, and I literally, I went to bed with the biggest smile on my face because trying to hide the very thing that came out is what happened last night. And I'm just glad that America knows because the truth is that so many people like yourselves want to be better allies to the community, you understand a little bit more than most

people, but the truth is that the reason why America doesn't understand why black trans women are being murdered at exponential rates, it's because they see gay white men as the helm of the community, as the leaders. And so if we're looking at Ellen DeGeneres, if we're looking at Anderson Cooper, if we're looking at all of these people who are the 1% and they're a part of the societal uppercrust, there's a huge disconnect between the very real grave threat that our lives are under. I gotta ask one last question as quickly as we can. A lot of people that are not well versed in all the things you just said will say, hey, why

protest Pete Buttigieg, for example? I mean, he is LGBTQ and he's running for president. Isn't that an amazing breakthrough moment? So how can you help people understand that if in fact that's really what was happening? Yeah, I don't know, I think I haven't talked to some of the people who organized that yet. But I do know is that some of it is just timing. So it literally is because we see the edited version, but we don't know like what led up to that moment.

The other piece is that from what I understand, there's a lot of conversation around Pete Buttigieg from community, more specifically gay men even, who are kind of like, you represent this kind of like respectability politics that are authored by people that don't respect us. And so Pete's a different kind of gay. And I think he's actually said that. interviews that he doesn't really connect or resonate with some of the narrative of the gay man. And so there are some people, from what I've heard, who feel that there's a lot of, I don't

know, internalized homophobia there maybe around like trying to perform for a cis hetero society that says you're lucky that you even got in this race. And so like, let me not, you know, be too gay or like, you know, something that will make me fall into this tropism of what it means to be gay. So that's some of the criticism that I've heard on that end. But it could have been coincidence. I'm not sure. Okay, fair enough.

All right, guys, we've got to take a break. When we come back, we've got a lot more politics for you guys. So we need to talk about a relatively new show called Un-F-E-Bing the Republic or UNFTR. As a young Turks fan, you already know that the government, the media, and corporations are constantly peddling lies that serve the interests of the rich and powerful. But now there's a podcast. dedicated to unraveling those lies, debunking the conventional wisdom. In each episode of Un-B-The-Republic or UNFTR, the host delves into a different historical episode or topic that's generally misunderstood or purposely obfuscated by the so-called

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And that's true whether you're in Jedi training, or you're uprooting and exposing all the propaganda and disinformation you've been fed over the course of your lifetime. So search for UNFDR in your podcast app today and get ready to get informed, angered, and entertained all at the same time. You're right with us. All right. Back on the Young Turks. Look, there's a ton of comments. They're so wonderfully supportive. I'm just going to read a couple because otherwise I take up the whole show and we have A couple of, we have obviously more topics.

Abate and a very stable geniuses tears, right, said, how likely is it that HRC, the human rights campaign, only invited Ashley to lend credibility to the town hall, always intending never to let her ask questions, I'm guessing 99%. Look, I don't know the answer to that, and I can't speak on that. Do you- I kind of felt that. I felt it was a thing of we want your visibility and not your voice. We want your presence, but not your politics. Yeah, I hear you.

Naomi Ridley writes in, Ashley Marie, I am so sorry that this happened to you and to the black trans community. We are with you and appreciate your work. And last one, my gay marriage writes in. Yes, Ashley Berry Pressing here to talk about the Equality Town Hall. I was disappointed that TYT didn't cover the LGBTQ presidential forum a few weeks ago, so I'm so happy to see this being discussed today. Thank you.

So I appreciate you calling us out too. Honestly, the reason for that decision is we stopped covering the town halls, period. It didn't have anything to do with that town hall. If you notice, we also didn't cover the seven hour town hall on the environment. And so that has to do with lack of resources, et cetera, more than anything else. But hey, always keep us on our toes, always challenge us. We're not like the mainstream media where we yell at you, how dare you, right? And thank you for being excited that we're representing everybody today.

Okay, John, what's next? Okay, let's continue on in that vein. At last night, CNN, Equality Town Hall, there was a lot of serious discussion, but there were a few moments that got a little bit lighter, even a few laughs. Here is a great example of that. And a supporter approaches you and says, Senator, I am old-fashioned, and my faith teaches me that marriage is between one man and one woman. What is your response? Well, I'm going to assume it's a guy who said that.

And I'm going to say, then just marry one woman. I'm cool with that. That was funny. She has been criticized, I've seen quite a bit for that, not necessarily from people I always agree with on anything, but a lot of people, probably more centrists, maybe even right wingers, are like, oh, well, you can write off, you know, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. They started listing all the states that because you are so callous and your disdain for Christianity, you have no chance of winning these states now.

And I bet the people that are gonna show up and fill in that space are the Gen Zers who live for meme culture. They're also going to be a lot more LGBTQ people. There were, this is probably one of my favorite moments with Warren. She was having fun. You could totally see she was having fun. In fact, this is her signature move now in which she rubs her hands together. She's literally releasing the hair follicles from snatching the entire audience bawled with these like quick, like funny.

Like this is her new thing. She did the same thing when she made the comment about, you know, like if you're going to just ask like say, like, we can't, we can't, like, why run for president? And then she was like, that's her signature. Oh, I never noticed that, let alone, yeah, let alone the why she's doing it that you just expect. I want to be clear and fair. You're an advisor to Elizabeth Warren?

I'm a sergeant. The wonderful thing that I love about it, and this is part of the conversation I even had, like, around the town hall too last night, is that the campaign, all honesty, has never asked me to not speak about things that are more important to me. I'm still friends with other people from different campaigns. There is a lot of cross-collaboration because I think ultimately the slate of candidates that we have, there's a lot of shared ideals. And I think that this is why all of the kind of like back and forth and kind of, it's unnecessary because I think at the end of the day, whoever wins the primary is going to be someone who has an idea of what kind of conversation

need to be happening and what kind of moves they need to make to represent us in the general. All right, and now I want to address John's point. So this is something that happens all the time, and it's also a point about privilege. So whenever a progressive criticizes anyone in the right, it's very predictable, not just the right wing, but a lot of people in the mainstream media come out and go, oh, you can kiss Pennsylvania goodbye now. Okay, so let's break that down a little bit. So I guess you assume that Pennsylvania is bigoted, right?

that they are homophobic, et cetera, like this talk of like, well, that means you insulted all Christians. Wait a minute, you're not speaking for all Christians. You're talking about the fundamentalist Christians who hate gay people. Okay, so, but if you notice, if someone goes after African Americans, who's a Republican, nobody ever says, oh, kiss Philadelphia goodbye. And without Philly, you can't win Pennsylvania. Forget Pennsylvania.

I can't believe this idiot would dare to, you know, criticize African Americans. Look, Trump today, doing a rallyer yesterday, attacking Somali immigrants who are African Americans and Muslims, and nobody's saying kiss Michigan goodbye because you just offended all Muslims, kiss Pennsylvania goodbye because of the African American vote that is significant in that state, etc. Because the people in power don't relate to black folks, don't relate to black folks, don't relate to poor folks, don't relate to Muslims, they relate to other people. So they automatically assume, well, okay, that's it since you offend to someone like me, even if I don't agree with them, but fit my demographic, I'm assuming you're gonna lose.

And I'm gonna tell everybody you're gonna lose, thereby hurt your candidacy. But if you offend people that are not in power, that are a significant voting block, no one cares. And let's be real, did you actually believe that they necessarily had it to begin with? Like, it's one of those things where that would have been the same response, no matter what was said, what the outcome was, it would have been just that. And even with Elizabeth Warren, if she were too rigid and serious, oh, she needs to loosen up. She's like the same thing they did with Hillary. But now she's cracking jokes and she's like, she got her hand game going on and her like crapshoot moves.

And now she's just not taking this here. She's just, you know, oh, gay rights. Now she's, at the end of the day, most of what they're adding to the conversation has no real merit. or validity or any factual data supporting their belief. So that's the last thing I was going to say because it's so important. You're not going to get the racist-figureated homophobic Trump voter anyway, stop it. It's total nonsense. It's not like there's somebody sitting in the middle of Pennsylvania going, oh man,

you know, I hate gay people and I hate black people and stuff. But I was thinking about voting for Warren instead of Trump. But, you know, when she said that comment about I should marry one woman, which I agree with, that really made me mad and now I'm not going to work. That's gaslighting 101, okay, and it was never the case. But I want you to know it's real intent. The people who do it, they might not even consciously know it. I would actually guess that most of them don't consciously know it.

But the intent is, if you're a progressive, don't speak up. Don't fight back, because then I'll tell you you're stupid and you're going to lose the election. Because what is their assumption? The country is center right. That's not remotely true if you look at the polling, it's the exact opposite. Two thirds of the country is progressive and I can prove it to you in two dozen polls. But everyone on television assumes, everyone in the pundit class assumes that country's right wing, country's right wing, country hates gay people, right?

What an idiot supporting gay people, you're gonna lose Pennsylvania, right? Well then why are we having the forum? Why do we even have a Democratic Party? No, the whole point is to try to get people like Elizabeth Warren to shut up. Well, she doesn't agree and she won't do it, and nevertheless, she persisted. And that's what people like about her, and guess what? That's why she's right now the frontrunner in the race. It's not like being more progressive hurt her.

It took her from near bottom to the very, very top. How many times have you heard pundits on television go, you know what, it was a brilliant move by Elizabeth Warren to be really, really progressive. It took her from anonymity nearly, and I mean, after they wrote her off in the beginning. You remember that, after the Native American heritage so-called scandal, controversy, et cetera. Every so-called smart analyst on TV was like, oh, she's done, she's done, we're done with her, right? Now she's number one. How does she get there?

Through bold, progressive plans. And credit. One of the things I love the most about Elizabeth Warren, she gives credit where it's due. So she will give Bernie credit. She will give Castro credit. She will say, you had this amazing idea. I support that. I may not understand the nuts and bolts of it, but you know what?

You're working on this. I support that. And I think that it's going to take a candidate who's going to be able to unify. And so that two-thirds that you're talking about, I think it's because we're all starting to see through the gaslit fog of the GOP and these talking heads and political hacks who are just trying to scare us because really they're afraid because they know TikTok times up. All right, love it. Let's move into darker territory?

Yes. Okay. It took Ben Shapiro only a couple of minutes to move from a quote from last night's equality forum, Beto O'Rourke talking about tax breaks for religious organizations that discriminate against certain Americans to threatening to gun down either Beto O'Rourke or a truancy officer, were they to come to his door in a circumstance he didn't like? If that seems crazy, it's his show. Let's watch.

In other words, if you're a church, you're not infringing on anybody's rights. You're just saying you can't come here for your marriage. Go to the church down the street. You're a religious school. You're saying, listen, you want to learn about gay rights? Go to the public school down the street. You're not infringing on anybody. Your mere existence is an infringement according to Beto O'Rourke.

The institutional existence is an infringement on liberty, according to Beto O'Rourke. And you must be shut down. You want a culture war in this country? You damn well have it, Beto O'Rourke. You want a culture war in this country. We want this country to come apart at the seams. This is how you do it. Because I promise you,

If you come to tell me that you're going to indoctrinate my kids in particular policy and that I can't pull my kid out of the school and send my kids to a school I want to send them to, that I can't go to the church or synagogue that I want to go to. And if you make that national policy, not just California policy where I can move, but national policy, people are not going to stand for that. They're not going to stand for that. And if you send a truant officer to remove my child, I have two choices at that point, right? If I have no place to move because you've now made this national federal policy, I now have two choices. One is to leave the country utterly. Two is to pick up a gun. Those are the only choices that you have left me. And now people on the way, oh, this is, how could you say stuff like that?

How could you be so extreme? It's not extreme to defend the fundamental rights the Constitution was created in order to protect. If it work does not get to raise my child. And if he tries, I will meet him at the door with a gun. That is insane. That is insane. If he tries to remove my child from a home, and well, he's not suggesting that. Where do you think this goes?

Yeah, he wasn't suggesting that or any of that. He wasn't 10 miles away from this dystopic scenario that you crafted for yourself. But the issue is that the logic kid, the facts, you know, and feelings guy, he has realized that right wing thought only has like two modes right now. It's like, if they realize that the country's moving a direction that they don't like, that popular opinion is swinging on an issue away from them, they threaten to start gunning down people. That's the go-to move.

He's approaching this conversation as if he's playing, like, a video game. Like, he's sitting with his head saying, like, yeah, I'm going to blow it up and I did it. It's like, this is not a video game, bro. Like, this guy, first of all, I just need to state the obvious. He is the biggest joke to me. I don't even call him Ben Shapiro. His nickname is fragile Frank. And he is just this scared, shaking chihuahua of a political hack that plays on the fear and the ignorance of some of the,

younger crowds that don't know much about politics. They don't know much about what the Constitution is about, like what's outlined, which that's interesting too, the fact that we're protecting the Constitution. You don't even understand the Constitution at all. Like they don't, they just- Yeah, so I gotta break this down. So I'm gonna get, so it was littered with lies, I'm gonna explain what the reality is in a second. But before we do that, the more important point, which is this threats of violence is totally unacceptable.

So he's saying that he would meet a presidential candidate at the door with a gun. He's saying that if you send authorities, including police to his door, to enforce a law, that he would instead murder them. Because he's an in-sal. Yeah, because look, guys, coming to meet you with a gun doesn't mean anything but I will kill you. It doesn't mean I'll come with a gun and flowers. There's not anything you could do with a gun except to kill someone. So he's saying, I will not follow the law, so I'm not surprising he supports Donald Trump.

And if you try to make me follow the law, if a cop tries to make, if a black guy says, hey, I know my rights, the cops kick the living crap out of him. Guys like Ben Shapiro say, hey, you should have listened to the cops. And here's Ben Shapiro saying if a cop shows up and tells me what to do according to the law that the whole country passed, I'm going to murder them. Two options. Leave the country, pick up a gun. And I think what we're seeing is that energy is what happened after the Civil War and the

South and Jim Crow laws. And it was that idea that we've been defeated. Our ignorance and cognitive dissonance has been penetrated. And so now the only option is to go out with the bang. Yeah. And so let's be really clear about what Beto actually said. Because from just that clip, you must assume, Oh, Beto said he's going to strip all of your kids and take them into the woods to do pagan rights around a bonfire.

He just said, I'm not going to allow tax breaks for religious organizations that deny people their civil rights. That's literally all he said, but he has to fill a lot of hours of radio every day, I guess. No, but I'm going to get to that in a second, but I want to say one more thing about the violence. Now, we even laughed on this panel because Ben Shapiro, really, what are you going to do to anybody? Now look, they're very weak, so they hide behind weaponry. So it's not like Ben Shapiro could say like in the old days, like, oh, you wanna take it outside. So he goes, no, I'll just murder you with a gun because I'm a weakling, right? So that's his illusion there.

And we laugh because it's absurd coming from him, but it's not funny because he has a lot of maniacs who listen to his show. And those maniacs do have guns, and they are incredibly weak and deeply insecure. And why aren't they on a terrorist list? Why aren't they on a watch list? Because Tommy Laron did the same thing when she'd then try to walk it back and say, oh, that's not what I meant. It's exactly what you met, Swastika Barbie.

Like, you thought that just because someone didn't agree with you on a specific thing, that you were going to then try to row people up and get them excited and incite violence. I guarantee you this, if the Black Panthers said, if the cops show up at our door, we're going to meet them with a gun, they'd all be arrested. Yeah. And they'd definitely be on a watch list. But you have right wing privilege in this country. You can threaten the murder cops all day long if you're a right winger, and your crazed audience could actually do it.

But let them kill a black person, though. Blue Lives Matter, you know, yes, like, why are you? But then all of a sudden, when the law's on our side. And you don't allow me to be a bigot, then I'm going to shoot all the cops. That's what Ben Shapiro says. All right, so now let's get to finally, to all the lies as quickly as I can. He says, oh, you come in and make my kids do certain things at a school. Betto wasn't talking about schools at all.

If you're talking about Catholic schools, et cetera, they're perfectly allowed to exist. If you're talking about churches, he makes it seem like, no, Beto says and Democrats say you must teach you this. This is a specific thing you must teach at your church or at your school. He's not saying any of that. All he's saying is, if you want your tax exempt status, you cannot discriminate against certain people, which is the law for, in every other regard. So when he says, well, why don't you just go to a different school?

Why don't you go to a different church? Well, that's what they told black folks, well, we're racist and we're not allowing you in our hotel or a restaurant, et cetera, why don't you just go to a different restaurant? Go to a different hotel, go to a different pool, go use a different water fountain. What's the big deal, separate but equal? No, and by the way, at this point, we're not saying that churches can't do that. They get separate but equal. So I hate it, I can't stand it, I think it's wrong, I think it's morally wrong.

But if you're a person who's morally despicable and you hate gay people and you say, I don't want to appeal to them at all. I don't, and it's not just about the issue that Beto brought up, it's also you can't get a job. The church, you go to the church and you say, hey, oh, you're gay, I hate you, you're not allowed to have a job, okay? So, okay, we're still gonna let you do that. You're, and Ben, don't worry, sleep easy, you could hate anyone you like.

It's a free country. All he's saying is, then you're not going to be tax exempt. But that is actually why Ben Shapiro is the most upset. Taxes, oh taxes, I want my money. That's what the whole right wing is based on, money, money, money. I want to cheat on my taxes as a hateful, bigoted church, I want, or a mosque or whatever religious institution that wants to discriminate against other people, they say, no, I want to be able to discriminate and pay zero taxes.

Why? I don't pay zero taxes, you don't pay zero taxes. Why is the church get to say, I'm gonna be the most hate. And by the way, of course, it is not remotely all churches. But if you're some church that is in that direction, some mosque that is in that direction, we're still fine with it. I mean, it's unbelievable, it is, it's a wonderful free country, you're allowed to be hateful, you're allowed to be a big and you're allowed to be all those things, but you're not allowed

to demand that you get special privileges where you don't have to pay any taxes. Also, why do you care what the church does or doesn't do if you're just going to disobey the law anyway and grab your gun? So it's like- Yeah, and so what Ben Shapiro's in reality saying is, if you don't let me make sure that they can't get jobs, I can kick them out of school, I could fire them for being a teacher, I could do all these things, and I demand to pay zero taxes, if you say to me, no, you have to actually pay 10% in taxes or whatever the numbers, I'll murder you. Jesus Christ, that is what the right wing in this country is maniacally in favor of the rich

and the powerful to the point where they were threatened to kill cops in order to defend their right not to pay any goddamn taxes. And last thing, will you think we want to control your lives? I don't want any part of your miserable life, okay? The idea of controlling Ben Shapiro's life, I don't want to be within 10 miles of Ben Shapiro's life. I don't give a damn what you're doing your silly little life. What we're asking for is equality, okay?

It's not too much to ask for in a country based on equality, same rights, not more rights, Not more rights, not less rights, same rights. But you're a bigot, you're a homophobe, so you go, I can't believe I have to give game people the same rights as me. Well then, God damn it, do option one, move to a country that is not based on equality. You are un-American, you hate the core idea of America, which is that we're all born equal. Read the Declaration of Independence, you ignorant ass, and if you don't like it, then get out. Get out, move somewhere else.

And you know who wants to actually control your life? Shapiro who wrote a book about don't watch porn. What? Hey, hey, you, you're over there. Don't watch it. You over there. Not that kind of porn. Not that porn.

Can you believe the liberals want to control your life? Are you mental? What are you doing going on people's computer? What are you watching? What are you watching? Don't do it. Don't do it. I'm going to control every part of your life.

No, you're the big government advocate. Don't talk to your doctor about an abortion. I'm going to get inside of your uterus. I'm not going to let you do that. I'm not going to moralize. Don't watch porn. Don't sleep with that person. Don't love that person.

Who wants to control your life? That jerk right there, that little weasel is the one who wants to control your life. And we're not going to let him, but unlike those monsters, we're not going to go, I don't agree with Shapiro, so I'm going to grab a gun. No, we're going to do it politically, and yes, we're in the middle of a culture war. Our culture of equality is better than yours, of discrimination, and we're in the middle of winning, and that's why you're so pathetically bitter. And you know you've lost the debate, you've lost the American people, they agree with us,

two-thirds agree with us on every one of those issues. That is why you are desperate and go, you know what, I'm gonna do the only thing that right wings got left, violence. That means you have been thoroughly defeated, you are intellectually bankrupt. And those are the facts, and the facts don't give a damn about your feelings, young Turks. At TYT, we frequently talk about all the ways that big tech companies are taking control of our online lives, constantly monitoring us and storing and selling our data. But that doesn't mean we have to let them. It's possible to stay anonymous online and hide your

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Bobby in the member section says, Warren shut that man right up. The liberal mom says, as someone who's from a purplish district in Pennsylvania, I can assure that the people who felt, quote, alienated by that comment will never vote for a Democrat. These people complain, Klobuchar is too progressive. Okay, 100% right, thank you, liberal mom. Then this handle, writes in, TYT needs better gender options, writes in, why can I see such an inspiring transgender women on TYT, but can't select trans women from my own profile on the site. Well, I love you for wanting to select that and for calling us out on it.

We didn't get there yet, but you're right, and we will definitely put that in. And I love that you're putting up your profile. So we started personalization guys about a week ago, so unlike other companies, we don't have a lot of folks working on this stuff, which is small but mighty, mighty team. So they will get on that, just if you can, please be a little patient with us. But this is how we do the show together, this is how we interact, this is how you're the Young Turks, okay? So we'll put that option in there, no question. Meanwhile, everybody, t.yt.com, tell us who you are, we love it, and interact with us, interact with one another.

And so now, and when you click that, people will know where you're from or what drives you, et cetera, all the different things that you can click on there. So thank you for participating. I really appreciate it. gone yet, check it out on t.com, and you could follow our different host, different topics, et cetera, so I think you'll love it. And I know today we're supposed to do it on all of our partners that have our 24 hour cable channel, Pluto, Zumo, Roku, and YouTube TV, and we are, we're live on those now. But we had a technical issue in the beginning, so we opened it up for everybody.

So we're also on YouTube live today as well, even though we weren't supposed to. But if you want to be a member, you want to watch us on those platforms, that would be amazing. To be a member, of course, if you are a member, you always get every show live and non-live anytime you wanted.T.com slash join. Thank you guys. All right, what's next job? Okay, one last topic to close up, the first hour. There's a lot that Donald Trump has had to complain about on Fox News recently. Almost all of it, Shep Smith. And so today is actually a day of good news for Donald Trump. Shep Smith apparently is out. Here is his final sign-off from his show. The opportunities afforded this guy from small town Mississippi have been many.

Fox News has allowed me to travel the country in the world, gathering the facts of the day for you. Together with my colleagues, we've written a first draft of history and endeavored to deliver it to you while speaking truth to power without fear or favor in context and with perspective. So recently, I asked the company to allow me to leave Fox News after requesting that I stay, they obliged. Under our agreement, I won't be reporting elsewhere, at least in the near future, but I will be able to see. more of Gio and Lucia and our friends and family, then we'll see what comes along. This is my last newscast here. Even in our currently polarized nation, it's my hope that the facts will win the day, that the truth will always matter, that journalism and journalists will thrive. I share those same hopes, just don't have a lot of hope in those areas. So that was

his final statement, some of what he said about the negotiations, I guess theoretically could be true. We'll see in a few months how much actually ends up being true. And just a quick note, he talked about them writing the first draft of history. Shep Smith is a lot better than everyone else at that network, but man, some of those areas of that history would be pretty dark, pretty weird. They viewed much of the 19th century through an odd lens. But anyway, he's gone, and so Donald Trump has gotten what he wanted.

I mean, there's other people he doesn't like at the network, but Jeff Smith was the one that was most regularly a thorn in his side. Yeah, so look, Fox News didn't just write their first draft of history. In a lot of ways, they made history. So it's painful to talk about, but we've got to be honest with what happened. So people that talk about them in the Trump era a lot. No, they've been toxic from day one. They were meant to be toxic.

That was the whole point. And they were meant to lie about it. If they just represented a conservative opinion, it's a free constant. And so we would disagree and we would fight, but it's fine. They pretended to be fair and balanced. They put news in the title to mislead you on purpose. And then the most damning thing that they ever did is the one that gets the least attention. In the 2000 election, when it was an absolute tie between Bush and Gore, they had hired

Bush's cousin to be their vote counter. And Roger Ailes pulled off a great trick. And so, look, unlike Trump, Roger Ailes was very, very smart. And he had Bush's cousin say, yeah, Bush won the election. So they declared, and they know that the rest of the media is a bunch of weaklings and followers. So once Fox News came out in 2000 said, George Bush has won the election. Everybody else at the other networks panicked.

And there's literally reporting from inside the networks that said, well, Fox called it, Fox called it, we gotta call it, we gotta call it. And then later when all the votes were counted after the Supreme Court stopped the vote and the news agencies actually got the ballots, collectively. They counted them. It turns out Al Gore had won the state of Florida. Under every counting measure there was, the whole state of Florida, Al Gore had won it. He was the actual president.

He didn't just win the popular vote. He won the electoral college. But Fox News robbed this country and of this world of him and put in a guy who started the Iraq war, crashed the economy, and set the world ablaze. Fox News did that. So you'll forgive me if I'm not moved by your first draft of history. And how you, you know, this toxic, toxic place has done great damage to the entire planet. Now, having said that, Shep is by far the best guy on Fox News.

And what would he had always just done a little, a little pinprick, if you will, into their veil of lies. So from time to time, he would tell the truth. And he would back when Roger Ayles was alive and running Fox News, he would call him in, he'd tell him, look, you only get that once a year. right? In essence, right? That's the bottom line of it. And Ailes found Shep Smith and he's Shep's been on there for 23 years. And if you're a Shep and you went from, you know, nothing to a very successful, wealthy person, I can understand why you'd be loyal to a guy like Roger Ailes. On the other hand, Roger Ailes is a monster who treated people horrifically. So you could have your own personal loyalty. That's up to you, brother.

But back when Ailes was alive, he'd allow the truth about once a year. Now he's not alive, he's not running Fox News, and Shep's saying it all the time. And now we got problems. And now all of a sudden, Shep is gone. So I have no idea if he's telling the truth when he says I asked to leave. He sounded genuine there, but it's Fox News, you never know. But Shep's a truth teller usually on Fox News as much as he's allowed to. So maybe he did want to leave, but I don't know why.

I feel like some of it was a little performative, like the performance was stellar because I could look in his eyes and see one thing. And then there would be those one hook things that he would say that I could just like see him turn the blade in Trump's stomach. Like he would, you know, those principles of honesty and truth and integrity and just kind of like talking around it. But I would have to say it has been thoroughly entertaining watching the GOP self-cannibalize because Trump is so toxic that even the toxic of the toxic are seen. is like Mother Teresa in proximity to Trump. That's true. And it's just really interesting that what I want to see is what happens during the election.

Because there's a lot of people who obviously aren't going to come out and speak against Trump because they're afraid of him and they're afraid of what some of the more extreme base would do. But I think that it's going to tell a different story in the polls, much like it did when people didn't vote for him to begin with and some of them voted for Hillary because they didn't want to see him. So, excellent example of what you're talking about is Colonel Ralph Peters. I mean, the guy's nuts on foreign policy, nuts on a hundred different things.

But Trump was so toxic that Ralph Peters was like, no, I'm leaving Fox News, I can't stand this place. Like really? I mean, look, sure, let's do all the terrible things that we normally do, et cetera. But this guy doesn't even believe in democracy, doesn't even believe in America. And so he left and he's now on CNN. So I don't agree with Ralph Peters on anything, but even that guy had a line and Trump crossed The line.

It's like that episode of Family Guy when they're like, ba-b-b-b-b-bur-bird is the word. And then after maybe like five minutes in, you're just like, okay, I get it. Like it was funny, like the first five, ten minutes, but now it's too much. That's Trump in this election. Yeah. Same thing with Shapoopee. Yeah. One point I want to make really fast.

So we actually, we didn't get into it yesterday, there wasn't enough time, but it was one of the reasons why you were talking about the possibility that the younger remaining Murdox might turn them in a more moderate direction because of their business interests outside of Fox News, which is certainly a possibility. But I felt like I had seen the first draft of this a couple of weeks ago when Shep Smith was feuding with Tucker Carlson, and Shep was just calling it like you saw it. Tucker was bringing on guests to bash Shep Smith, and management saw that feud and said, Shep, if you don't stop, we're taking it off the air.

And so I suspected if they have their straight news guys and their opinion guys, they know what their fans are coming for, and so they chose to side with Tucker. And I think what we're seeing here, what Trump wants out of Fox News and what they're creating now by getting rid of Shep Smith is there is this ever-present radicalization of media where people are pushing for more extreme versions of what they enjoyed previously. And what's important to note about this change to Fox is that Fox is not through this becoming more conservative. It's becoming more conspiratorial, more detached from reality.

It's becoming more extreme, but not more extremely right. That's important. It's becoming right wing, exactly. It is just more purified BS. It's what people want to hear. They want to see the bright bark conspiracy theories. They want to see this stuff they can see on 4chan. They just want to see it with some good production values.

And so that's what they're chasing. Not better right wing policy proposals. So last thing on this is that, look, Shep could be lying and why would he lie? Because a lot of times when you're leaving these companies, there is a lot of money on the line. And so whether it's an exit package or just being let out of your contract, if he's not let out of his contract, he can't go work somewhere else. So he could have a ton of financial incentive to make things look good to the outside and not be honest about it at all.

That's one possibility. The other possibility is that he's being genuine. Okay, if he is, then we'll have our answer soon. Because if Judge Napolitano or Chris Wallace exit next, it was all a lie and they're firing and cleaning out everyone who isn't sufficiently conspiratorial, doesn't want to lie, etc. I don't know how Napolitano is still there. Yeah, Napolitano is deeply right wing. Chris Wallace is conservative.

So John is right, it isn't about their politics, it's will you bow to the dear leader? Will you lie to the American people on a regular course? It doesn't matter what your politics is, it matters whether you agree to fascism or not. So if they fire an or someone leaves that is in that same category of right wing on Fox News, but honest about Trump, then you have your answer. Fox News has weighed in on the side of fascism and Trump. So we'll see, it's not our decision to make, it's their decision to make, and you'll know who they are. Okay, we gotta go.

Ashley Marie, you were amazing. Thank you. Thank you for participating and for enlightening us on. And actually follow with you, thank you for having me and actually following through. And everybody, check out the damage report. That's John's show, of course, on the network. If you're watching us on Pluto, Zumo, Roku, or YouTube TV loops throughout the day. And of course, you can get on our website at tyt.com.

And also you get that shirt that John is wearing about voting and how important it is on our shoptt. com. Thank you guys. Really appreciate it. Okay, we'll be right back. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks, support our work, listen ad-free, access members-only bonus content, and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.