The Young Turks - Appeasing The Mob

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Israeli Parliament approves part of judicial overhaul as protests rage. CNN host gives Mike Pence a very awkward reminder after he shrugs off Trump's threat. "Looks good when you look at the numbers!" CNN’s Dana Bash praises Biden's economy and asks Pelosi why polls are so low. Poll: Trump voters say racism against white Americans is a bigger problem than racism against Black Americans. HOSTS: Cenk Uygur (@CenkUygur) & Michael Shure (@michaelshure) SUBSCRIBE on YOUTUBE: ☞ https://www.youtube.com/user/theyoungturks FACEBOOK: ☞ https://www.facebook.com/theyoungturks TWITTER: ☞ https://www.twitter.com/theyoungturks INSTAGRAM: ☞ https://www.instagram.com/theyoungturks TIKTOK: ☞ https://www.tiktok.com/@theyoungturks 👕 Merch: https://shoptyt.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to The Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. All right. the Young Turks, Jake Ugar, Michael's sure with you guys today. We've got a hell of a show for you guys, including Mike Pence defending his own execution in a matter of speaking. And then some poll numbers for you guys, including disastrous ones, where the country,

well, not the country, but Trump voters think that white people are more discriminated against than black people. So that's among the many things we have for you in these two hours. All right, Michael, how are you doing, brother? I'm doing well, Jank. It is good to be here, and we do have a heavy schedule, so let's get started with this. Yep. We are breaking into programming to go to Israel, where the parliament has approved the first part of controversial judicial changes.

It includes limiting the power of Supreme Court's judges. This bill forms part of a wider package of changes that protesters have been out on the streets demonstrating against all. against all year. Critics say the bill is a threat to democracy. So yeah, that's in Israel. Today the far right Israeli government voted to limit the power of the country's Supreme Court. We'll get into why and what that means later. But there have been massive protests throughout the country over this. Critics are saying that the move is a power grab by Netanyahu, Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, who may be hoping to force through far right law, far right wing laws, but also there's selfishness there too, because

he might be trying to shield himself from that very court. We're going to talk about that policy in a little bit. But let's take a look, Jank, at some of these protests and how massive they are in a country as small as Israel. You can hear the anger on the streets. The vote in the Israeli parliament just taking place. Protesters not able to get near the parliament because of the police, but protesters spilling right down the road.

Earlier, angry crowds massing near the Israeli parliament, police carrying away protesters and firing water cannon to disperse crowds overnight. This weekend, former Israeli security chiefs signing a letter, backing a threat from thousands of army reservists, saying they'll no longer serve when the reforms go through. And before today's crucial vote, President Biden wading in,

releasing a statement calling on Israeli leaders to seek consensus and not rush their, quote, divisive judicial reforms. Protesters descending on Jerusalem from all over the country, many marching for days, some camping outside the parliament, saying today's vote is wrecking Israeli democracy. I mean, two unbelievably unprecedented facts in that report. One is that army reservists are threatening not to serve. army as we know, it's it's it's mandatory for Israeli citizens to serve and the notion that they would step away from that, which is a source of real national pride, a little different in each country, but in Israel certainly national pride. That is surprising, Jenk. Also the fact

that a U.S. president is admonishing Israel and Netanyahu in the way that he did. Let's let's take a look at why these people are protesting, why there's such a grave concern about these laws. Israel, the country, doesn't have a formal constitution. So the nation's high court uses the subjective legal standard of, quote, reasonableness to assess whether a law should stand. The Netanyahu government's judicial overhaul would restrict the Supreme Court's use of reasonableness in striking down laws, appointments, and other actions. So, you know, just to talk about that for one second. So when legislation comes over, there is this level of reasonableness. And if the court had thought that it was unreasonable of the legislature

in an extreme way to talk, to legislate in the way they did, the court could step in. Well, now they can't. At least that's what Netanyahu wanted. And that's what the note said, the vote said in the Knesset. We'll continue. Netanyahu himself has argued that the Supreme Court has become an insular, elitist group that does not represent the Israeli people. But critics say Netanyahu is pushing the overhaul forward in part to protect himself from his own corruption trial, where he faces charges of fraud, bribery, and a breach of trust. And of course, he denies any wrongdoing. And, you know, it's what this is able to do, aside from Netanyahu protecting himself, is to have the far right in Israel push through all of their policies, even if a court

that would ordinarily have the right to, to deem them reasonable or not, were to deem them unreasonable, doesn't matter if these ultimately go through. And if in fact this vote holds, of course, there'll be challenges to it. But, Jank, that is a massive change in government there. And you have the U.S. chiming in against it. Yeah. So let me give a sense of the enormity of this impact of this law. And then we'll talk to you, what are the consequences? And why it's happened. So first, Since Israel doesn't have a constitution, as Michael explained, this is the way that the judiciary checks and out of control parliament, right? And so they don't use that willy-nilly. They have a standard, and this is the normal checks and balances that you would find in a democracy, right?

But without it, this is a really important part. Just a slim majority of the ruling party can get anything past now. Okay, so there's no check at all. There'll be no judiciary check. And in the case of Israel, since it's a parliamentary system, the prime minister and the ruling party are close to the same thing. And in this particular case, at this point in time in Israel, they are the same thing. So whatever Netanyahu decides just becomes immediately the law of the land. Now, is it immediate?

No, they go to vote on it in Knesset. going to win those votes. And then the judiciary can't do anything about it. And so people are very justifiably concerned that that means you don't have a democracy anymore. Now, it's complicated because democracies have a lot of different components, including elections. But part of that is a separation of powers or a different part of democracy is a separation of powers, minority rights, etc. Here, even if you think, well, they're still going to have elections, they can vote out in Netanyahu. At a bare minimum, this means that democracy, as we know it in the West, has taken a massive hit in Israel. And so, look, the U.S. system

has, in my opinion, too many checks and balances, and it creates too much friction. So even if you win giant majorities, you still can't get anything done because not only is there the Supreme Court, which I think, of course, should exist and should have the check that it does. But on top of that, you have ridiculous things that have no business. And our are not in the Constitution like the filibuster, the parliamentarian, et cetera, and it grinds everything to a halt. So you don't want things ground to a halt, but you don't want a simple majority to be able to run rough shot over the rest of the country with no checks and balances. And that's where Israel is partly heading. Now, look, I think that when you look at the normal

explanations as to why you will see that as with a lot of countries, it is secular folks versus fundamentalist religious folks. And this happened, for example, in my home country of Turkey, and the fundamentalist won. And look, if that faction wins, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a democracy. Everybody can win. They could be as the right wing as they like. They could be as religious as they like. The problem with fundamentalists is that they refuse to leave. And so we saw a piece of that here in Donald Trump and backed by the Christian nationalists, et cetera, because fundamentalists, not all religious folks, but I'm talking about fundamentalists, think, I don't really care about your democracy.

I just care about my religion. That's why I'm a fundamentalist. I think my religion rules over everything, and I find everything else in inconvenience to my path to power. So now there are less inconveniences to their path to power for fundamentalist religious folks in Israel. also the extra nuance of Ashkenazi Jews versus Mizrahi Jews. Ashkenazi are from Europe, Mizrahi are generally speaking from the Middle East and Asia. And they both came together in Israel. And Ashkenazi Jews for a long time were the ruling elite in Israel.

And they built up some resentment, rightfully or wrongly. You know, I'm more on the secular side. So I, you know, but I'm sure that there were things that they, that the ruling elite in Israel should not have done to all of the folks in Israel. and that built up more and more resentment. But overall, the fundamentals were going to do what they were going to do no matter what. And I think that it hurts us to be naive in all of these countries that are affected by this phenomenon. I also think that once you start getting used to taking away people's rights and Israel got very, very used to taking away Palestinian rights,

then it becomes a little easier to take away other people's rights. And in fact, Michael, I mean, this is of course an extreme, extreme example, but one of the papers did write that the fundamentalist folks that were happening in Mizrahi were yelling at some of the Ashkenazi Jews saying, we wish the Holocaust had done more because it mainly affected the Ashkenazi Jews. And so that is, I mean, that's sent it to chill down my spine. And I can't believe one Jewish person said that to another, but that's where we are today. Well, it's fascinating that everybody within Israel, and I think outside of Israel,

worries about the threats to Israel from outside that Israel could potentially be destroyed. But in fact, Israel is now getting closer to, they're certainly in a rhetorical civil war. But when you have army reservists refusing to serve, the problems in Israel and the bringing down of Israel could happen because of Israel amongst themselves before it happens from an outside source. Again, that's taking it too far. But they are really at a boiling point in that country. And it's not a very big country. And it's a very militarized country. part of it, we talked about how Netanyahu considers the Supreme Court elitist and insular,

so he doesn't want to defer to them. But what does that make him, right? I mean, that makes him somebody who is almost dictatorial because of this law. Do you read it that way? Yeah, of course, it's just an excuse. And so, yeah, and Netanyahu will do anything for power. And so there's the paradox that, by the way, Netanyahu is Ashkenazi. But he's largely backing the, their Mizrahis, and it doesn't break along those lines perfectly at all. Every country, their internal politics is a mess, filled with tons of different factions and infighting, et cetera. But generally speaking, it is the more religious folks against the more secular folks.

And Netanyahu came from the secular branch and is now siding with both ultra-religious folks and ultra-nationalist folks. Watch out for people with ultra at the beginning of. of their description. And we have to continue a little bit here because you talked on the minorities. And I think it's important that we mention, that we mentioned this, that while the Israeli Supreme Court, this is more from Jake Johnson and common dreams, while the Israeli Supreme Court has been an extremely weak check on the government's systematic oppression of Palestinians

and illegal land confiscations, the proposed judicial overhaul could completely eliminate any remaining barriers to far right efforts to dramatically expand settlements and further roll back Palestinian rights. And this goes to the whole conversation around reasonableness. And what what someone like Netanyahu and his faction in the Knesset deems reasonable, which a Supreme Court that is not legislative and is not elected directly could could step in and check that. It's also important, I think we point out that this is not unique to Israel. This is in the United Kingdom. this is in Australia, this reasonableness idea, and we have to remember that when Israel was formed in 1948, there was a lot of British influence and a lot of parliamentary influence

in how this was done. Reasonableness being in the United Kingdom, reasonableness now a big part of, or I guess a diminished part of Israeli law. Yeah, and one more thing. Look, and I'm curious what your opinion on this is. So look, my prediction is the US will huff and puff and Biden sent that, you know, state, for what it's worth. And Michael's right that it's a little extraordinary. The U.S. president normally never, ever criticizes Israel, so a little bit. But my guess is that's where they'll leave it, and this won't affect the funding of Israel 1%.

And they could have as ultra-religious leadership as they want. It could be as ultra-fundamentalists as they want, and they can take away any rights they like. And we're never going to touch a dollar of Israel's funding. So that's my guess, and I think that's disastrous. I think that things like this, you help a friend by putting pressure on them, as France and other allies did for us during their Iraq war. It didn't work, but they at least did their part and tried to get us to not do something that was going to be terribly damaging to ourselves, let alone the allies in the world.

And I think that we have plenty of leverage here the United States does, but I'm going to guess that we're going to choose to not exert any of it. I think we should exert all of it. That's the part I'm not sure I know what you think, Michael. What's your sense of whether Israel's funding here should be at play to push them back in the right direction? Well, I don't know that the funding is going to be in play on this. I don't know that the funding will ever be in play, frankly. I kind of agree with you on that point, unless there is an aggression, a massive aggression, like we haven't seen in Palestine,

the occupied territories. I just don't, I don't see this. This seems like it is opining about an internal debate that's happening inside another democracy. And I don't think that the United States would step in in that way. They haven't stepped in because of Palestine either. Let's be clear. But again, if there was something massive and different than what we've seen, I think that's the only time that we would see that happen. But what, you know, first of all, we should say that this is going to be challenged, right? I mean, so when Netanyahu comes to visit the White House in the fall, he's already been invited. President Herzog was met with President Biden last week at the White House. These things are going to come up. But this is not the major

point of conversation, I'm guessing, that they're going to have Netanyahu and Biden. There are plenty of things on which they disagree. And I think Biden is going to be a little different of an audience. I mean, he's been cold to Netanyahu so far. And he did issue. this, you know, this, I would say admonition, a mild admonition on this. But I don't think it's going to be about funding because of this. But, you know, the protests continue now. And they didn't end with the vote. And the vote was a shutout, by the way, 64 to nothing.

Because everybody who would have voted against it saw the writing on the wall and decided to just walk out of the Knesset, which is pretty unheard of. The other part of that is, you know, that Israel's Supreme Court, ironically, may be able to take this up if it's challenged and then it becomes up to Netanyahu and his government as to whether or not they will actually entertain or respect the ruling of the Supreme Court that they have taken the power from already. So it's a lot of irony going on there as well. Yeah, and then was one other shoe to drop. And I'd love these kind of internal protests of any country that's trying to make sure they hold onto their

rights. Over a thousand people in the Israeli defense forces, specifically the Air Force, had threatened to quit if they passed this law and they have passed the law. So we're going to see if they are going to quit. If they do in mass, well, Israel's Air Force would be greatly depleted, at least for the moment being. And people are concerned about it. Yes. We have to underscore how sort of military abdication in Israel is just unprecedented. And that, I think, speaks to the rest of the world and speaks to Knesset members who may have been on the fence, more than anything will, more than funding even from the United States will within the confines of Israel. Okay, now I'm going to say something slightly obnoxious. Yeah, the more educated are more likely to be Air Force pilots.

And so sorry, well, you know, religious fundamentalists should look into an education. Okay, and if you didn't, and the Air Force says, we don't want to participate in this because it's no longer a democracy, and you're taking away my rights. Why am I participating in that? I say, here, here, go get them, brothers. And so, you know, I think that's a terrific protest, partly because it might be successful. And now they threatened it. Will they deliver? We don't know. How many of them will deliver? don't know. And look, in the short term, the threat to Israel's security is overblown if those pilots don't show up. Why? Because the Palestinians don't have an Air Force. And no one else is going to do a damn thing about it. So it would be a good symbolic move at a bare minimum,

I think. But that's easy for me to say I'm not in their situation. All right, either way, dramatic changes in Israel, although the U.S. policy is Michael and I just explained. will not move an inch. All right, we gotta take a break here when we come back. Mike Pence on why potentially being executed was not that big a deal. All right, back on TYT, Jank and Michael with you guys. And also CDN Norse Dog Dad, gifted you five Young Turks memberships on YouTube. We appreciate you.

Michael, you got more news. I do. We'll get to it shortly. There's Mike Penn stuff. Here it is. I don't, I'm not concerned about it beyond that. That's pretty remarkable that you're not concerned about it, given the fact that they wanted to hang you on January 6th. Over the weekend, former Vice President Mike Pence, you'll recall him, once again, minimize the fact that Trump supporters literally called for his hanging on January 6th during an interview with CNN's Dana Bash. And we're going to hear more of his answer in a second. First, though, we should give a little background, a little context. Here's a lead up to that, which is where Mike Pence brushes off Donald Trump's recent threatening rhetoric.

Donald Trump said this week talked about how his supporters might react if he is charged and faces potential jail time. I think it's a very dangerous thing to even talk about because we do have a tremendously passionate group of voters, much more passion than they had in 2020 and much more passion than they had in 2016. I think it would be very dangerous. Does that kind of rhetoric worry you? Well, it doesn't worry me because I have more confidence in the American people and in the people in our movement. Look, it was one of the things that infuriated me on January 6th with what I saw, people ransacking the Capitol and engaging in violence against law enforcement officers, Dan.

I just, I would say not just the majority, but virtually everyone in our movement are the kind of Americans who love this country are patriotic. or law and order people who would never have done anything like that there or anywhere else. Law and order people. These are people, as Danabash alluded to, who called for the hanging of Mike Pence. And you'll recall what that looked like. Of course, Mike Pence, Alfred E. Newman. What, me worry. He is totally unmoved by this. It's almost like he didn't see it happen, even though he's seen it happen over and over again. Here's his reaction. I'm sure the American people will respond in our movement in a way that we'll express, as they have every right to,

under the First Amendment, to express concerns that they have about what they perceive to be unequal treatment of the law. but I don't, I'm not concerned about it beyond that. That's pretty remarkable that you're not concerned about it, given the fact that they wanted to hang you on January 6th. I want to move on to the issues that you were talking about. Well, Dana, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I want to say to yours, there's been an effort to take those that perpetrated violence on January 6

and use a broad brush to describe everyone in our movement. No, I didn't mean to do that. I'm just, it's not the case. The people in this movement, the people who rallied behind our cause in 2016 and 2020 are the most God-fearing, law-abiding, patriotic people in this country. It's unbelievable to me that Mike Pence still holds this line and still thinks that that's the way to woo the people that support Donald Trump who, I can tell you, Jang, from being out there among them with consistency for TYT and talking to them. they cannot bear the name Mike Pence because of the fact that he certified the election, that he thinks he can win them back by towing that line of remaining unconcerned. It's mind-bogglingly, I would say tone deaf.

Dana said it, you know, she called it remarkable. But the notion that he could still hold this position is just, I mean, I cannot believe even Mike Pence or even some of these people, would get to that space. Yeah, all right, first the slightly funny thing. She says, they wanted to hang you on January 6th, but I want to move on. Well, so does he, by the way. Right. And then he says, well, look, I don't want to paint with a broad brush here.

You know, we've got our movement is very law-abiding and in favor of law and order. And then Dan Abbas says, oh, no, no, I didn't mean to say that they are inclined in that direction. No, they are inclined in that direction. Is it all of them? No, of course not. But is a lot of them, yes, it's not just a couple of guys. So let me give you some of the stats about that. When they asked in a poll recently, Washington Post and University of Maryland,

do you think it is ever justified for citizens to take violent action against the government? Or is it never justified? 40% of Republicans said, yeah, justified. Now, to be fair, tons of Americans believe that. and that's a problem with our general violent culture to begin with, with 34% of Americans, including a huge number of independents, go, yeah, sometimes we should do violence against the government. Okay, interesting, didn't see that coming, at least outside of Republicans,

but it's not just theoretical. Let me give you a different poll. Researchers at the Public Religion Research Institute found that 30% of Republicans agreed with the statement, quote, because things have gotten so far off track, true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country. So that one is not hypothetical or theoretical. That one is asking you about today, three out of ten Republicans, that is a mass. That's about 25 million people say that, yeah, it might be time to resort to violence.

So that is why it is not at all surprising that they chanted hang Mike Pence. And by the way, brought gallows and nooses. So they weren't playing, and it wasn't hypothetical for them either. So if you cross them, yes, an enormous percentage of Republicans say, we might have to do violence against you. And that is a very, very scary place for this country to be. And look, Mike Pence is obviously whistling past the graveyard there. I mean, 2-2. Didn't mean that pun, but there it is.

And to be fair to him, he handled it like a champ on that day. right? And he was very strong and courageous on that day. But yes, this political strategy isn't going to work, but it's also hurting the country because we're pretending that there isn't this iceberg of a problem. And so I'm glad that Danabash brought it up, but like brushing it aside and it's going, no, no, no, no, no, Republican voters are wonderful, patriotic, decent people. No, tons of them are. Of course they are, right? But unfortunately, 30% of them are super dangerous. And if we're, if we're not, honest about that fact, it's going to hit us again. And the next time that iceberg hits us, it's going to be worse. Well, and by all accounts, Jenk, among those 30% of Republicans, going by

what he has said, would be the leader for the nomination for president on the Republican side in 2024, which is the former president, Donald Trump. You'll recall that he, that his former chief of staff, the former chief of staff, sorry, Cassidy Hutchinson was the former chief of staff to Mark Meadows in the White House said that Donald Trump thought that he, that what was happening to Mike Pence was deserved. If I can remind you, this is Cassidy Hutchinson talking to the January 6th committee in Congress earlier this year, late last year. I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, Mark, we need to do something more.

They're literally calling for the vice president to be effing hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard a Pat, he thinks Mike deserves it, he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. I mean, he thinks Mike deserves it. That puts him into that 30% of people that you said were absolutely essentially, I'm paraphrasing you're nuts and think that violence and resorting to violence is the way out of anything we don't disagree with. So I think when you look at what Mike Pence is soft.

peddling here. And what he's dancing around rather than going right after in this interview with Dana Bash or with anybody on any campaign stump is the fact that not only did Donald Trump sort of know what was going on according to the January 6 committee findings. He also was someone who kind of pushed it and said that it sounds reasonable. And that desperate to hold on to power, you call it courageous with what Mike Pence did when he was vice president. And that's the job of the vice president. Read it and count them. And once they were certified by the states, he just has to do it.

And so, you know, and then the other thing about Mike Pence is that even in this interview with Dana Bash, he was hesitant to call out Trump's own crimes leading up to the capital riot. He said, while his words were reckless based on what I know, I am not yet convinced that they were criminal. They don't really have to be criminal if they were reckless. he doesn't really even acknowledge their recklessness. Otherwise, he would respond with passion to Dana Bash when Dana Bash is talking about

these people wanted to hang you. How do you just listen to that and brush it off? Look, there's two things that I think that even with all to focus on January 6th by the media, by the Democrats, et cetera, two things that are being massively minimized. One is Trump saying, I think Mike deserves it, deserves to be murdered. That is unreal, that is colossal. He's saying his own vice president, not only should be executed, but the people saying that they're going to murder him on that day.

And Trump says it on that day. These chief of staff comes in, Mr. President, I'm sorry, but your own supporters are trying to murder your vice president. And he says, I don't think they're doing anything wrong. And we're going to go, and Trump right now is leading the Republican primary by about 30 points and is very competitive in the general election. How could we let this monster back in? Because part of the reason is because we're so worried about offending the feelings of Republican voters.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to understand them. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to reach out. I try to reach out to Republican voters because I think they hate corruption. So you can do both things at the same time, and you don't have to put all of them in the same basket, okay? And so, yes, there are plenty of people on the right that you could reach out to. But if you ignore the 30% of the party has lost its effing mind, and they are definitively led by Donald Trump. I mean, look at this is the second major thing in that clip that we shouldn't brush past. Trump said in that tape that you heard with your own ears, if they arrested me and put me in prison,

It could be more dangerous than 2020. What do you think he means by that? I know what Republicans are going to say. They think he's an angel. He means that they'll throw marshmallows at people. And we'll, you know, and we'll bring America back. And yeah, I got it. And it's a deep state.

We'll do all the bad things dressed up as us. And then when you find out who it is, it's actually us and not the deep state. But it doesn't matter. We'll make up fantasies, right? But no, right there. For all rational thinking people, this monster of monsters who liked the violence that was done on January 6th, who didn't even mind his own vice president being potentially murdered, is saying, oh yeah, arrest me and we'll have even more violence.

Who do you think egg down that 30% to begin with? So that disease needs to be addressed within the Republican Party, but almost no one has the courage to do it. And certainly Mike Pence doesn't. So one last thing, guys, I'm going to read you these quotes from about a different poll because I need you to understand what's going on inside the Republican Party. In December 2020, political morning consult poll, 40% of Republican voters said Trump had, quote, no responsibility at all for the events that led to a group of people attacking police and breaking into the Capitol,

while another 16% he wasn't too responsible. Only 14% of Republicans described Trump as very responsible for January 6th compared to 45% of all voters. In total, only 30% of 31% of GOP voters said Trump was very or somewhat responsible, even though 59% of all voters assigned that level of responsibility to Trump. Now, I read you all that. Bottom line on it is focus on one number. 31% of Republicans say that Trump was in any way responsible. The other seven out of 10 Republicans say, Trump, January 6th, no, no.

It was probably Dukakis or Walter Mondale or OJ or Hugo Chavez or Antifa or the Deep State or my mom. or your mom. In fact, I read a different poll, Michael, that said a majority of Republicans believe the person who caused the riot against Joe Biden was Joe Biden. One political party has lost his mind here. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And we need to somehow get them back to sanity. But that is an enormously difficult process.

But we also, I think that you can look at the half-fold glass there too and see that 59% of all voters, and that's a big number of American voters at a time when you can hardly get to 50% on anything, say that he is either very or somewhat responsible for January 6th, and going into an election year, that has to matter. I think that's an important number, too, Jank. Yeah, that's true. And look, I do not want to take any chances, and I do not want Donald Trump, who I think is a full-blown fascist in these comments, totally proven. Believens, believes in political violence as a tool for his ambitions. I don't want him anywhere near the general election.

But if he is in the general election, the only silver lining will be. And this is a giant if, because if it doesn't go to this way, we'll lose the country. But if a Democrat shalaks him and ends him and says, okay, a giant rejection by the American people, that 59% actually has to show up and say, no, we're not letting this fascist, violent, dictator wannabe who nonstop praises dictators nonstop. He does it with North Korea, he does it with

communist China as they refer to it but he keeps saying I love the way she makes everyone stand for him and no one's allowed to disagree with him no one's allowed to dissent. I love that. Come on guys, he's saying he's a fascist. Jesus Christ wake up Republicans. You went

to go stop corruption and you wound up here with the biggest con man in American history. This fascist want to be. So anyways, if he gets routed in an election, maybe then it ends and the Republicans decide to go in a different direction. But until then, by the way, if you're a Republican voter, you're nuts on a different count. You're going to take a guy that 59% of the country thinks basically did a coup against America and you're going to run him in a general election? All right. I mean, I don't want it. And I think you'd be nuts to want it. But okay,

If you want to lose, have out at it, Haas. Exactly. Yeah, all right, we've got to go. Sorry. When we come back, shocking development, I talk too long. Okay, we've got more on what Biden is doing, and is he doing well enough on the economy? The press is trying to help him. We'll see if he takes that help.

We'll be right back. All right back on TYK and Michael with you guys, Michael's got the next story. Yeah, Jake, the Biden White House is having some trouble, trouble with communication and going into an election year. Communicating what is going right is very important and they are not doing it very well at all and they haven't for quite a while. They've been trying to tell Americans that their lives are improving, that they're better off under Bidenomics. And that's what they're calling it. And which is, you know, it worked for Ronald Reagan. Reaganomics works.

And Bidenomics is clicking with some people. But what the White House isn't doing is talking about the fact that it's actually true. There are several metrics that are now suggesting that the economy is improving and doing in some places actually really well. But polling has shown the American people are dissatisfied with the state of the economy. We've talked about it when I'm out on the road talking to Trump voters. All they talk about is the price of gas. So to a lot of people, that is the economy. It has nothing to do with the, you know, the CPI and the rate of inflation dropping by a quarter percent.

It's how much are a dozen eggs and how much is my, is my gas to fill my tank. And so Dana Bash was talking on television. We remember her from a Mike Penn story. She was talking to the former speaker and current representative Nancy Pelosi to talk about what is going on and why there is this problem. A Quinnipiac poll this week found nearly six and ten Americans still disapprove of his handling of the economy. Why is that and what does he have to do to turn that around? Well, a lot of it is about messaging, of course. I'm so proud of this president.

In the two years that we were in the majority, working with him, he broke all records. On the level with a Lyndon Johnson or Franklin Roosevelt in terms of the caliber of legislation that he passed for the good of the people, lowering prescription drugs, again, cutting in half. Yes, you indicate cutting and half unemployment. So why isn't the American public giving credit for it? It has to be messaged. It just has to get out there. It's a busy job being president. I can say that as being speaker.

You're doing your work. But he's just going to have to make sure the American people know at that kitchen table what this means to them. Jank, I mean, the speaker did a better job at messaging than the president is doing now. busy job or not, it's important that White Houses get their message out. And there is, and we'll talk about it in just a moment, but there is a real reason for the president to be talking about this and for his White House to be talking about it. Here's what there is to start. The best job creation record at this point in a presidency since either Franklin Roosevelt by raw numbers

or Ronald Reagan in his first term by percentage growth, unemployment steadily below 4 percent inflation falling and real wage growth turning positive. The president has a lot to boast about, but he's not really getting that done, is it? No, he isn't. So I think there's two different issues here. So number one, his economic record, in my opinion, is mixed. So what should you give him credit for? All the numbers that Michael just gave you are real. And the president doesn't magically create those numbers, but he does shepherd their economy. And when things go south, he takes all the blame. And so when things are doing well, he should definitely receive some significant portion of credit.

So it's hard to keep both unemployment and inflation low. And now unemployment is at a record low and inflation has been brought all the way down to 3%. So if you don't give him kudos for that, what do you give him kudos for? And by the way, the Republicans with numbers that were not as good for Donald Trump thought they were the greatest numbers in the history of the world and proved that Donald Trump should be reelected as president. So, well, if that's true, then I guess Biden should be reelected in a landslide. So the second thing that Republicans are disingenuous about is gas prices. Now, in the beginning, I understand they were real.

The gas prices went up and they wanted to blame the guy who was in charge, plus they don't like him anyway. But now things inflation has come down, and they're still saying the same thing. Why? Because they hate Biden. Come and keep it real. I mean, Brian Unger was on one of our programs old school. He's now moved to Georgia, and he was talking about how some real estate. agent there was talking about how prices for houses have dropped by 200% in Georgia because of Biden. Drop 200% because of Biden?

That doesn't make any sense at all. It's not even trying to make sense, right? So is there a healthy percentage of this where people go, I just don't like Biden. He's not Trump. I hate him. Okay? Yes, there is. Now, why do I say the economy is mixed?

And his record on it fixed? Because there are things that the president can do like past legislation. And he didn't pass almost any of the economic pieces of legislation that he promised, $15 minimum wage. People's wages would have gone up. They would have felt that. In the beginning, he did pass some that were great, like child tax credit. And guess what? When he did, and that was part of the big COVID relief bill plan, that's when his numbers were the highest.

By far, by far. They were about 15 points higher than they are today, maybe even more. So when you do things that help people economically, your numbers go up. When you stop doing them, they go down. You shouldn't be overall too surprised by them. They keep bragging about all these bills. She says FDR and LBJ, that is insanity, not even close. I think he passed about 15% of his agenda.

And some of it were good things. And the one I always uses a semiconductor bill. I mean, the semiconductor industry does need help in this country. He didn't put any guardrails in. He was just a giant giveaway to corporations. But it doesn't matter what you think of the substance of it. What matters is, does that help? a lot of Americans? No, a lot of the semiconductor companies in America fired

their workers afterwards anyway, because he didn't put any protections in. So the American people felt that 0%. So going around bragging about how you did a semiconductor bill's tone deaf, and oftentimes they do do that, either specifically or in this nonsense made up thing that he, that Biden is FDR, right? Because he passed a semiconductor bill and a couple of others that mainly help corporations. But Michael, finally, On the messaging side, that one is less complicated and less mixed. It's an absolute disaster.

And in fact, I wanna show you a clip of Nancy Pelosi or several clips of Nancy Pelosi to give you a sense of why it's a disaster, among the many reasons why it's a disaster, and then we'll break that down. But let's watch. I want the Republican Party to take back the party. Here I am Nancy Pelosi saying this country needs a strong Republican Party and we do. I've also said that Republican Party, which country needs a strong Republican Party. They've made great contributions to our country.

I say this to Republicans all the time. Take back your party. And I say to my Republican friends, take back your party. The country needs a big, strong Republican Party. I keep saying, take back your party, Joe, to Republicans. Take back your party. This is a grand old party. Yeah.

So when you're constantly telling people how awesome the other side is, you might have a messaging problem. Do the Republicans ever make that mistake? Never, ever, ever, ever, ever. They constantly are saying, oh, it's Marx, this fascist, groomers, satanic, terrible, everything they touch is a disaster. They've ruined the country. It's totally destroyed. They're the worst, most evil, terrible people in the world. And Pelosi and Biden come on, my Republican friends. Oh, you guys are such a great. great party. Take it back to what it was when we helped the rich together. I mean, I love Republicans. Republicans are so good. Gee, I wonder why one side has an advantage, messaging advantage, and other side doesn't. I actually think that was strong messaging by Pelosi,

and I don't think that she and Biden do it in the same way. I think absolutely, Jay, that it was total mocking of the Republicans by what, by what Pelosi did. And for a president and a speaker to do things are two very different models. And the president, you know, part of messaging is messaging why things aren't working, as much as it is why things are working. What Joe Biden didn't do with Kirsten Cinema and Joe Manchin, when he knew there was no hope, when his advisors were telling him there was no hope, to not villainize them and publicly go after them and soft shoe it with them,

that to me is as bad as only talking about semiconductors when you can talk. about how hard you've tried on other issues and the successes you've had with unemployment and interest rates and infrastructure and things like that. So I really do think that they're very different. And what I see Pelosi doing is what a speaker does. And it's totally different and it's mocking the other side. And I think mocking the other side is something that she did quite well when she was speaker. But I think it's very, very different messaging.

Yeah, no, as usual, totally disagree. I disagreed with you first. Yeah, okay, fair. So look, guys, messaging is a blonde instrument. And if it's done right, you think, wait, no, all the sophisticated people say you should do nuanced messaging. No, I believe in nuance. I certainly believe in nuance in policy. But nuance in messaging is often not a great idea.

But it's not nuanced, Jake. I mean, Joe Biden gives so much acreage to Republicans. He is so deferential. Nancy Pelosi was never deferential to Republicans. She was mocking of them and she was talking about how they were they are sheep and they're being led and they're essentially without saying cult members. She said cult members. So I don't see it the same way you do it at all.

And it's not just a defense of Pelosi. It's a defense of the fact it's really what's frustrating about Biden more than it's what's to be in my estimation sort of looked at as a positive. from the former speaker, but it's, it's what Biden is lacking is the ability to go after. Now, you can't as a president do what you can as a speaker, but he does not go after the causes of why things don't work. Nancy Pelosi's subtlety is completely lost on the overwhelming majority of people when she's like, oh, my Republican friends, they should get better.

And I like them so much, they should be slightly better, okay? She's being to the caucus. She's trying to embarrass the caucus. Nobody's embarrassed by that. No one. No one is embarrassed by that. No, look, Michael, here, let me give me an example. Clearly, Republicans have no shame anymore. Yeah, and that's why trying to appeal to their shame is absurd.

No, you're trying to. And the Republican caucus in the house when she was speaker really had no shame, and now they have a little less than they did then. So I'm sorry. No, no, no. No, look, no, Michael, it doesn't, who gives a goddamn about the Republicans? This is a giant, hold on, let me finish. Hold on, let me finish, let me finish.

These don't matter like White House messaging matters. These don't, what Nancy Pelosi says on five different, you know, with the same talking point on five different panels or talk shows, doesn't matter. What Joe Biden doesn't do is what matters. Okay. And what Joe Biden does to Republicans is far worse than what, what, what, I hear you on that. I hear you on that. Listen, Michael, winning elections has zero percent to do with Republican voters, okay?

The Republican voters are gone. They're gone. They're not going to come back and be like, well, I thought that the Democrats were satanic child molesters who were drinking the blood of children. But, you know, I reconsider them to think they're lovely human beings. Okay, so yeah, maybe you get a 5%, 7% if you're super, super, super lucky around the edges. No, the way to win elections is independence. There are now more independence than there are Democrats or Republicans. Politics has completely changed. And what do you do with independents?

You want them to come to your side and you want the other side to be supernova toxic, right? Good news they are, right? And by talking about Republicans as being, where are the Republicans? We need good Republicans. We don't have them. Don't go there. Come with us. I mean, that's what's implicit.

It's super subtle. No one gets it. No one gets it. Only they like, it's a message for the elites. You're right, it's super subtle, but it also doesn't infer. Super subtle doesn't work. That's what I'm trying to tell you, Michael. Super subtle doesn't work. It's a talking point. It's not trying to manage the work of an administration going into a presidential election year. It's two totally different things. She's a speaker of the House speaking to her caucus probably ahead of 2018, probably ahead of. Or, yeah, it was 2018, I guess, or 2020.

No, Mike, let's drop Pelosi. We disagree on Pelosi. I think she's incredibly weak. I think she's a terrible legislator. I think she's a terrible representative of Democrats. We massively disagree, okay? You think she's great. It's indefensible in my opinion.

But that's not what we're talking about, okay? In my, the main thing is Democrats overall, and certainly Joe Biden, and remember about the economy, do they suck on messaging? We both agree on that. So, but let me just say this, okay? If I, if you're, if I was advising the president, I know it's Biden doesn't have it in him because he's a goddamn marshmallow, right? But if we had an actual like person with a spine as our leader on the Democratic side, here's what I would advise him to do. Every day, do a press conference and go inflation is incredibly low now. You're welcome.

You know what? Unemployment record. How many times do I have said record on unemployment? I said it yesterday. I said it today. I said it the day before. I said it the week before. I said it the month before until all of the Foxxas is crying, oh, Biden keeps bragging about low unemployment. Go Biden's such a braggard. I can't believe he's bragging so much about how he broke the record on unemployment every single day. Force them to engage on your high ground. These morons who are the Democratic leadership don't know anything about messaging.

Don't know anything. They don't even know they're supposed to do messaging. They're so unbelievably stupid. We said we're staying away from the whole idea of the Democratic leadership. But so let's stay away from that. This is about the White House. This is about having what has been known, come to be known as the bully pulpit and not using it for any bully or really any pulpit, right? I mean, he hasn't done exactly what you're saying he should have done.

And what any president should do, which is to go out there and repeat it, the way Ronald, we talked about this in the production meeting today, with Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton used it for that. Barack Obama did it. George W. Bush did it occasionally. But to be able to talk about the accomplishments you've had and say it every day. Say it repetitively. That's messaging. To have surrogates out there saying it, not just your vice president, but constantly have people on these shows and on the on the hustings saying these things. It's what is absent in this White House. And it's a shame because some things, are not going to be as good by the time there's an election. So while you have the advantage, you have to play the advantage. Boom, we end on agreement. Boom, we end on agreement. Okay,

to do the next story. We've got to do it as quickly as we can. So Michael hit it. Oh man, a lot of pressure to do this as quickly as we can. Okay, so a new poll from Yahoo News and you gov found that Trump voters are very concerned about racism, but against white people. I mean it. The survey of 1638 U.S. adults conducted from July 13 to 17 showed that that among 2020 Trump voters, 62% say that racism against black Americans is a problem today, while 73% say that racism against white Americans is a problem. So an 11% gap, more people say against white Americans. Additionally, asked how much of a problem racism currently is. Just 19% of Trump voters describe racism against black Americans as a big problem,

Twice as many, 37% say racism against white Americans is a big problem. So it's very difficult, you know, to look at those numbers, look at Trump voters as a real reflection of America. Trump voters, self-identified Republicans are the only demographic groups identified by the poll who are more likely to say that racism against white Americans is a problem than to say the same about racism against black Americans. All right, guys, this is a giant problem, not just for the Republican Party, but for the country. So first, some, look, I'm so despondent about the state of the Republican Party that I'll take some of these numbers as a good result. Like 19% of Trump voters describe racism against black Americans is a big problem.

I didn't think it was that high. Okay, at least one out of five Republicans think that there might be racism against blacks in the country. I'll take it as a partial win. 62% say that racism against black Americans are a problem today. 62% of Republican voters. Oh, okay, all right. You know, it could be worse. Now, having said that, that's the upside.

The downside is 73% think that racism against whites is a major problem, is a real problem in this country. Wow. But before you judge the Republicans too harshly, let's look at the overall numbers. I'll give you one more here. A majority, 51% of white Americans, that's all white Americans. For instance, think racism against people who look like them is a problem. But overall, far more white Americans, 72% say racism against black Americans is a problem. So most Americans, 72% say, come on, get real. Racism against blacks is, of course, worse, right?

But 51% say that there's racism against whites. So that is very concerning. And it's concerning on two fronts. So number one, is there massive racism against white people in this country? No, there is not. Okay. And so the fact that they are wrong about that and headed in the wrong direction is so worried about it. A big chunk of Republican voters think is a major problem, right?

That's problematic. The second problem is that apparently, for whatever reason, and it's not just propaganda, they are concerned that they are going to be discriminated against. And look, and a lot of people get angry over this, but I think one of the problems here is how long affirmative action has lasted. And it was absolutely necessary in the beginning. But now you've got more that, you've got more than half of white Americans saying, I think there's racism. against me, against us. And that is not a healthy place for the country to be. And these numbers

get worse almost every day. Well, I thought we were going to end on agreement with Biden and Pelosi earlier, but we're going to end on disagreement on affirmative action. The, to blame this on affirmative action, rather than what Donald Trump and his quote unquote movement have facilitated in terms of having it be okay to show racism, having pointing out at every campaign stop that his people are aggrieved by the U.S. government, that's what creates this. He has sown this in this country. So it's a terrible thing. We can't blame this at all on affirmative action. But the encouraging line here though is that at least you have so many of these people

acknowledging that there is racism against black people, which you wouldn't have known otherwise. Yeah, look, I don't want to I don't want people to misinterpret me, I think Trump has driven tons and tons of racism for the reasons that Michael states, and he eggs this kind of opinion on, and it is overall enormously unjustified to think that there's racism against white people in this country. I'm just saying that affirmative action, I believe, is a contributing factor to that. And you could say no, it's people are used to it, they think it's perfectly great, they don't, and no white person thinks they're gonna lose their spot in a job or a college, because of affirmative

action. No one has caught feelings over that. I would disagree. I think some have. And I think I don't think it's helpful to the country. No, I don't say absolutely the what you just said. Don't paint me like that. What I was saying, though, is on balance, I think it has been better for the country and better for race relations because it has made it better to be a minority in this country. And I don't think it's done its work yet. That's all. Yeah. And Michael has the majority opinion of the left there. I'm in the minority. In the country, now the country has turned a little bit against affirmative action, a little bit past 50% saying we should end, you know, the Supreme Court was essentially right. But among the left, Michael speaks for

that community more. They still believe that affirmative action is productive in the right way to go. All right, we got to take a break here. We have an amazing second hour for you guys. Michael, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. We'll be back with Bengley. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks, support our work, listen to ad-free, access members, only bonus content, and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.