The Young Turks - Ben Carollo & Rayyvana on What Pride Means To Them

Episode Date: June 2, 2022

Ben Carollo & Rayyvana on What Pride Means To Them Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I get a free Tilly Dog. Chilly Dog, not included. The Naked God. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. Welcome back to TYT's Pride Special. It is that final stretch, but still, it is something that you are going to want to hang around for because we have some of the greatest here now. We have two Rebel HQ contributors. That's Ravenna, host of reactions on TYT's Twitch and Ben Corrolo, host of Galaxy Brain. Thank you both so much for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having us. Yeah, it's super great to be on. Yeah, absolutely, because this is an incredibly important conversation we need to have and we need your voices chimed in.

We also need your support out there to please shop tyt.com because we're going to be donating 100% of the proceeds of sale today to the Trevor project. We need to uplift organizations that do the work and put in the work. And before we jump into our conversation today with issues that impact the LGBTQIA plus community, I would love to ask you, Ben, first, what does pride mean to you? Yeah, I mean, pride to me is really about confrontational joy, which is like, I mean, it should be revolutionary in and of itself. It should be you rejecting the system as it is today and demanding a new one that is not you accommodating other people, right? It is society having to accommodate your existence, right? Because really queer folks throughout history,

especially like obviously in the colonial world have really been expected to tailor their entire existence towards cis head folks around them. And pride is really about trying to flip that on its head and basically just creating a space in a moment where all of these systems and structures aren't allowed to define or shape who you are. Yes, absolutely. The ability to define yourself for yourself. That is incredible and powerful and part of our own humanity. And so, Ravanna, can you tell me what does pride mean to you? Yeah, I mean, I think Ben really hit the nail on the head there because, you know, pride is a time of self-acceptance, but it's also a time to do it loudly and very publicly and, you know, a demand from the world, really,

that same acceptance that we find within ourselves. You know, and it's a time of celebration, But, you know, it's also a time of protests and a time of revolution. I mean, Pride month is in June for a reason, you know, and we, we, you know, honor all of the LGBTQIA plus activists that came before us. But we have to continue that fight because the work is not done. No, the work is not done. And it's something that we need to continue to do. And we need to uplift those who are doing the work. And when you had mentioned about being loud and speaking up about things, what we definitely know is that Joe Biden has put out. a recent statement and is speaking up to a certain extent. This per the guardian, Joe Biden has warned of new attacks on civil rights as the Supreme Court prepares to strike down the right to abortion, telling reporters at the White House that LGBTQ plus children could be the next targets of a Trump-dominated Republican Party. He called this MAGA crowd and the most extreme political organization in recent American history. What happens? The president asked if a state changes the law saying that children who are LGBTQ can't be in classrooms with other children.

Is that legit under the way the decision is written? There are so many questions here posed and so many fears out there and rightfully so. But, you know, hey, it's Joe Biden. He is what, the leader of the free world. He's got a lot of power. So I would like to definitely teed up to you, Ben, first. What is Biden really done to protect LGBTQ youth? And what can he do? Because is it enough. This is this is where it gets really terrifying, to be entirely honest, because today they just announced a new stamp honoring who of all people, of course, Nancy Reagan, somebody who actively celebrated the deaths of queer folks during the AIDS epidemic. And like that reality is just absolutely terrifying because they know what day it is. It's not like they don't know what day it is.

And they're celebrating somebody who literally celebrated like the death of countless queer folks. And so that really doesn't, it really doesn't speak to them being willing to fundamentally do much. Because the reality is if there's something Joe Biden wants to do, I get it, he can't pass legislation. But you know what? I know a lot of queer folks on the internet receive violent threats on a regular basis every single day. And I also know that not only do the platforms that those threats come on, not do anything about those threats, the reality is is that law enforcement institutions also don't do anything about this threats. And this is where ultimately the transphobia, the queer phobia that exists throughout the country intersects with other things because, for example, the recent school

shooter that shot all of those kids in that school had previously sent threats to people on social media platforms. So Joe Biden has the power of the Department of Justice. He could order them to, instead of focusing on nine violent drug crimes, maybe focus on the huge wave of threats that exists across the internet right now. And maybe that might actually do something not only to stop violence against queer people, but also violence in general, especially with really horrific events like what we saw last week. Yes, and Rayvana, what are your thoughts in terms of what Biden's done and what he can do, because it just may not be enough.

Yeah, I think it's like completely heinous of Joe Biden to say that attacks on queer children might be next. Yeah, no, duh, Joe, it's already happening. It's here now. It's been happening. States have been passing legislation that say that doctors can't provide gender affirming care to trans children. They've been passing legislation to prevent trans girls from participating in women's sports at their schools. There's been a disgusting onslaught of anti-LGBQ legislation, including the don't say gay bill in Florida and then copycat bills, so to speak, in other Republican-run states. I think one thing that the Biden administration really should do is start prosecuting anti-LGBQ hate crimes.

The amount of hate crimes that are investigated or reported versus what is actually prosecuted by the federal government is abysmally low. And so instead of just sort of putting out fluffy statements while simultaneously praising Nancy Reagan, what they could do is actually show the LGBTQ community that they care about us, that they give a damn about us and that they're actually working to keep us safe. Now, you know, that would be something he could definitely do because it seems like oftentimes he's acting like his hands are tied behind his back, despite his position and all the power he does have, especially executive orders. And, you know, the last administration I saw, didn't necessarily let the law stop them. So hey, it's like when you see these these incredible

threats to communities in our society, it's like, why not go ahead and step out into that space and do what's necessary? But I don't necessarily know that Joe Biden has the gumption to step out in terms of protecting and uplifting the queer community. And speaking of gumption, because I think it's something that's important to talk about, allyship. Because it's not necessarily an easy thing to do, but my God, is it entirely necessary. When we talk about allyship, what we're talking about is people who don't necessarily get it right all the time, but they're not afraid to get out there and try to do something to uplift, to stick their neck out, if someone's telling a queer joke, to realize there is no such thing. And to insist that that person

stop that behavior, to end it, to fight, to intervene, these are ways in which we all can stand up and speak up, but we need people to do more and to do better. Now, Ben, I'd love to ask you, what do you believe makes a good ally? Yeah, I this is actually where like personally, and I think somebody said it earlier, I'm not too keen on the term ally, to be honest. I think people should be accomplices, especially in the moment we're right now, because quite literally the existence of trans people is their Republicans are trying to criminalize it, right? Republicans are trying to to criminalize the existence of trans people and literally trying to take away kids from loving supportive families. And amid that, we need accomplices. We need people who are willing to stick

their neck out in a litany of ways in order to make sure that people around them are protected and safe. The reality is, is that things are only going to get worse. The way everything looks, it looks like things are only going to get worse. And so what we really need is people who are willing to risk more than reputation, who are willing to risk more than, oh, you know, maybe you're straying your relationship with your friends by telling them to stop telling transphobic jokes. No, we need people who are willing to actually take real risks to help like marginalize people around them because the reality is there's an extreme amount of violence not only coming from like terroristic individualistic violence,

but also systemic violence where the existence of queer people is something that Republicans are seeking to criminalize and actively doing so in several states. And if we get a Republican administration and the presidency in the House and the Senate, is there even really a question whether or not these don't say gay bills are going to be pushed everywhere else? Is there any reason to believe why they wouldn't pass some sort of federal ban on transitioning or even criminalized transitioning? We see them trying to equate trans people to to groomers, which by the way is a literal Nazi conspiracy theory. It was one of the things people forget about the history of Nazi Germany is that one of the first

people they went after were actually queer folks and their doctors. A lot of history actually got erased during that time. And so this is something where we all really need to consider what we're all willing to do to keep each other safe. Yes, so as you say, we don't necessarily need allies as much as we need accomplices and arguably co-conspirators. And so I definitely see them all under the allyship umbrella, but I understand that the term allyship has been somewhat watered down to a certain extent. But again, the question

is who's sticking their neck out, who's doing the work, who, even if there is not a trans person or a gay person in the room, who is actually standing up and saying what's up, something that they'd say in front of someone else, but that person's not there, who's truly doing the work. And so Ravanna, essentially what makes a good ally, whether it's accomplish or co-conspirator? Yeah, I think the best way that you can be an ally is to hit the streets and protest and organize for queer rights. And because we see a lot at protests, I am involved in a lot of actions with the National Lawyers Guild doing legal observing. That's a great way that other allies who want to get involved can get involved with protests. You watch the cops so that the

protesters don't have to. You help bail out protesters from jail. But you as a non-queer, particularly white non-queer folks, are less likely to be brutalized by the police than the queer protesters. So sometimes it really is just putting your body in front of someone else's is one of the most literal ways that you can be an ally. I also think there's sort of a misconception about the issues that are impacting queer folks. And I think a lot of well-intentioned people think it's sort of boils down to gay marriage and marriage equality when, you know, we are people just like everyone else. Our issues extend far beyond that. Abortion rights are queer rights. Student loan forgiveness as queer rights. And of course, the attacks on transgender people across this

country are queer rights. I mean, it's not something so simple as being able to get married, you know. And so I think it's just about understanding the deeper, meaning of queer rights and showing up in any way that you can to support that. Yes, thank you so much for that. And I will also proffer that also things that you can do, because the thing is as somebody who teaches the DEI work, you have to meet people where they are. And so you may not necessarily be ready to be out full throttle protest or, you know, put your reputation on the line, even though I encourage you to get there because somebody had fought to get you the rights that you have. And we need to be lifting up every member of society.

But even if you have some power in the moment, saying something, looking at your actions and making sure that they are parallel, they're on par with your words and who you say you are is such an incredibly powerful thing. And something that I pride myself on in doing, when I go out particularly with my trans girlfriends, is I check in as an ally. Are you Are you comfortable here? Are you okay being here? I also, I like to say I stay ready because I realize the world's going to come at my girls in a different way than it comes at me. And as a black person, they realize the world's going to come at me different. It may come out them because they're white. And as a result, we watch each other's backs. But we also approach things different ways because we're exercising that emotional intelligence, that curiosity, that understanding of reading the room and reading the situation, either way we stay ready. So it's a way that I can show my allyship just a little bit every day in showing that I recognize that the world will treat my friend and my loved one a little bit differently. And I want to ensure that they're comfortable and I also make sure that those around them

are respectful to them. But I will also say that if something were to go down, I always check with my friend first on whether I can respond. Because sometimes they don't want to make a big thing of something, even if I want to pop off. But out of respect, I ask. But I also encourage everyone to just look for ways in which you can support each other, to support each other in all the ways in which you can look at your resources. If you're a lawyer using your legal background, if you can donate pro bono time. Also at your workplace, if you see that members of the queer community are not being uplifted or promoted, what can you do? It's such an incredibly important thing. And Rivana, you touched on a reality and a question that I wanted to

pose to you all in terms of how people are seeing things. What do you think is, is kind of should be the pivotal focus, should be crucial that people should truly focus on right now as it concerns the queer community and the potential threats or the actually existing threats that they're facing right now. Well, I think the most horrifying thing issue that's facing the queer community right now is the attacks against LGBTQ youth because it's an attempt to essentially do a cultural genocide to eradicate LGBTQ youth. from existence because these attacks on, you know, trans children can't get gender affirming care. Not only does that like lead to forcing more trans children back into the closet, literally

forcibly detransitioning them, that can result in deaths, suicides. And so just having, you know, knowing that these are the massive horrible implications of these laws and that it's not just uncomfortable for us. Like this is a life or death matter. and fighting with that type of energy against these laws is so crucial. And that's why organizations like the Trevor Project are so important. And the enemies know it. And that's why they attack the Trevor Project as a grooming organization. This is an organization that saves children's lives.

Literally saves children's lives. And right wingers are calling them predators and pedophiles because they are, their goal is to have dead children. They want dead gay people, trans people. you know, people all types of queer people. So this is not not just issues that are causing us discomfort or like displeasure, dissatisfaction. Like this is a life or death battle. So just some people like bringing that same sort of energy to the fight even if they're not members of the community is really important. Thank you so much for Ivana. And Ben, what do you think is the most crucial

critical issue that maybe people are either missing or that they should really be focusing on right now. Yeah, I think the most critical thing that people need to focus on right now is the fact that with these attacks on the rights of queer people to just exist are part of a larger threat to our society, which is we are seeing a resurgence of pretty explicit Nazism, right? If you look for it, it's pretty obvious that that's what it is. They have these right we're talking about cultural Marxism, you have these, which is a Nazi conspiracy theory in case anybody's wondering, right? They're calling queer people groomers, right? They're running around spreading all of these conspiracy theories and they're committing acts of violence out in the streets, right? And so

when people talk about queer liberation, we need to understand it within the context of fighting these larger oppressive systems that these reactionaries are trying to basically refresh and they're trying to refresh it quite literally through acts of violence. And so we really need to view queer liberation as one player in the larger role of dealing with the systemic racism, the capitalism that we have, right? The misogyny, all of these things are tied together and they are deeply tied together. And fundamentally, if we are unwilling to view this as part of a larger effort to resist and oppose fascism here in the United States, then fundamentally, I think we're doomed to fail because ultimately at the end of the day,

anybody who thinks that they have a right to tell me what I am, to try and define me, regardless of how I feel about myself, is going to feel the same thing about anybody that doesn't fit their very narrow view of what people should be in general. And so this ultimate reality, I think, is something that we need to recognize that fundamentally, we are in a crisis moment, we're in a crisis moment that has, I think, some pretty big implications. And right now, trans people are the first on a list because the ultimate reality is like trans people are a pretty small minority and they think that enough people are ignorant enough. So like the reality is, you know, I don't care so much if you get my pronouns wrong

every now and again. I care about if you're going to show up to fight for me to live in peace. Yes. Yes, absolutely. That is incredible powerful words. Thank you so much, Ben. And it really seems that a lot of people out there are ignorant or their fears are being stoked in some way. And they feel they're losing a quote unquote culture battle. And they feel that they have some kind of right or entitlement to push their beliefs on you to define you as opposed to letting you define yourself for yourself. And this is incredibly problematic because as a society, we should all be able to live as we wish. and freely. And something that they often say about black women is that we're the canaries in the coal mine. So when we're complaining or when we're telling you something's wrong, it means that it will hit the women on the hierarchies above us, whether it's race or class. And I would say it's similar

when you're talking about the queer community and seeing what they're trying to do to the trans population in terms of those attacks. We are seeing even with Roe v. Wade and gutting it, the potential of getting rid of Casey Planned Parenthood and even going back Lawrence v. Texas and all of these rights that will ultimately impact us all and that have advanced the queer community, but will ultimately impact us all. So people have to realize that they need to get out there and fight now because even though it may not directly impact them, if the rights are immediately taken away, it will find and work its way to impacting us ultimately. So we need to fight for each other and stand up for each other. And I know that you both have organizations that you would love to uplift

today. And so I'd love to hear about your organization, Radana. Yeah, so I know I've spent a lot of this panel talking about issues facing LGBTQ use, but the other end of the spectrum and the group that often is forgotten is elderly LGBTQ people, because although there is a smaller number of out LGBTQ people in the silent generation and boomer generation, it's only because it was less socially acceptable. There are plenty of elderly trans folks who need transition care and struggle to get it. So I do want to highlight the, you know, it's local. I'm from Chicago. The Chicago Center for Disability and Elder Rights is running a campaign called Proud to Thrive, which is a focus on LGBT elders and representing them.

in discrimination, in housing, in health care, and for some employment. So a wide range of issues, but you know, this is a group of people that really, really needs that representation and it's pro bono representation for these individuals. So, you know, if you're able to donate or, you know, just show some support for that organization online somewhere, I'd really appreciate that. Fantastic. Thank you for uplifting that. That is an incredible organization and there are a lot of people out there who are in need. So I really appreciate that. And Ben, what organization would you like to give ups to right now?

Yeah, there's this really great organization here in Minnesota. It's called Our Justice, and it's actually an abortion fund. But they're an incredibly queer, inclusive abortion fund has done a lot of work to really connect the issues of, you know, to connect the issues of like the trans experience and the trans folks, non-binary folks out there, there that need access to abortion and they've just done a lot of work. They're actually the reason why Minnesota has a state constitutional right to abortion and they've done like a lot of really great work and I think right now an organization that both is out to protect queer rights and to protect abortion rights is just super super essential.

Absolutely yes and I'm very grateful to have organizations like that out there because those are incredible things that we need to protect and preserve so we can ensure that that everyone is entitled to their humanity and can actually access it and be full and complete individuals. And so as we wrap up our conversation today, once again, I want to remind everyone to purchase something at shopt.com because we are donating all the proceeds to the Trevor Project, an incredibly important organization that I have partnered with several times in the past. And we really do need to put in work to support people who are putting in the work and doing the work. And so as we close out, quickly, is there anything that you would like to say in terms

of this Pride Month, any kind of message you want to send people? Rayvana. Yeah, I know it can be like pretty easy to spend a lot of time criticizing the rainbow capitalism. And of course, it's fun to make fun of Lockheed Martin for putting out Rainbow Sox. But just remember that there's, it's also a month to uplift the voices of queer organizers. And so let's focus a little bit more on that after we've had our laugh at USMC also for for their ridiculous Pride Month post. All right. Ben, any last words? Yeah, it might be a little bit of a cliche, but, you know, what they say, when queer rights are under attack, stand up, fight back. Fantastic, yes, please stand up, fight back. And thank you all so much for joining us.

Thank you for joining us, Ben Corrolo, as well as Rivana, who you can catch on Rebel headquarters, where I am Adrienne Lawrence and I want to thank you all for joining us today. Please continue to support June for Pride Month, but also make it year round. Support the queer community, please make contributions, use your voice, be an ally, be an accomplice, be a co-conspirator, be progressive and this should be part of your progressive plan. Thanks again for joining us and enjoy your evening. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks. Support our work, listen to ad-free, access members-only bonus content, and more

by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.co slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.