The Young Turks - Broken Promises

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to The Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. One of the hardest parts of getting older is feeling like something's off in your body, but not knowing exactly what. It's not just aging. It's often your hormones, too. When they fall out of balance, everything feels off.

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Starting point is 00:01:46 And can we have a new relationship with Venezuela, especially because of the war in Ukraine? We're going to try to answer all of that with our next guest. William Newman, he's the author of Things are Never So Bad, they can't get worse. inside the collapse of Venezuela, a bit depressing as a title, but I hear you. William, welcome to the program. Hi, Jake. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on. No problem. All right, so in order to understand what's happening today, we've got to go back. So I've heard over and over again that Venezuela fell apart because there's a socialist country

Starting point is 00:02:20 and that that's what the problem was. Is that true? No, that's really not true at all. What happened in Venezuela was populism, not socialism. It doesn't matter how many times the leader puts on a red t-shirt and calls himself a socialist. That doesn't make somebody a socialist. Venezuela has always been a capitalist country. It has a very high degree of government involvement in the economy because the government controls the oil industry, which is the biggest part of the economy. But in terms, but it's always been a market economy.

Starting point is 00:02:55 Chavez, essentially socialism for Chavez and for Maduro after him was a form of branding, which they used to build up their support in the population and to stay in power. And what you have in Venezuela is essentially the same kind of populism that we've seen in the United States recently. And it was really Chavez, who was a pioneer in a lot of this and wrote what has become in this country, the Republican playbook, which is polarized mine social divisions, capture the judiciary, change the rules of the elections to benefit yourself. And that's essentially, I mean, what's happened there. So, William, that's really interesting because I never quite thought about it this way. So I know I'll talk of like socialism and that's why I know that's garbage, of course, right? And so, and I kind of like the word populism.

Starting point is 00:04:01 So I want to have a conversation with you about that too and what you mean by it as opposed to what I mean by it. But it sounds like Hugo Chavez initially saw that what was popular in Latin America and Venezuela in particular is the idea of socialization. because historically, I'm guessing here, you tell me if I'm right or wrong. Historically, that has been more of a populist movement would go towards socialism in Latin America because they were constantly fighting off American power and they're incredibly wealthy. And so it's a more populous brand in Latin America. Whereas the more populous brand in America is the jack boot of thugs of the government and the Republicans are going to look out for you, the individual and protect your freedom.

Starting point is 00:04:47 etc. So is that a fair analogy or do I misunderstand it? Approximately, I mean, you've had both right wing and left wing populisms in Latin America. Um, of the Latin American left is anti-imperialism, uh, be-à-be the United States. And so that's something that Chavez really rode, uh, and, and it was a very, very, you know, strong part of his message and Maduro's message. I mean, it's ironic now because Maduro calls himself the great anti-imperialist. And Maduro has been one of the biggest cheerleaders worldwide for Putin in his invasion of Ukraine. So you have the so-called leftist anti-imperialist in Latin America supporting the bigger country, invading the smaller country.

Starting point is 00:05:41 Well, that's that irony, unfortunately, is everywhere now. There are a lot of people that are in America pretending to be on the left who are supporting Putin. And they're like, oh, we're doing it because of anti-imperialism. I think you might misunderstand the word. Okay. And by that, of course, they mean just anti-America. And so, and I'm on the left. And the overwhelming majority of folks on the left aren't anti-American.

Starting point is 00:06:10 That's insane, right? But unfortunately, some people these days actually get paid for that. And so, anyway, corruption all around, not just in Venezuela, but here as well. But back to Venezuela. So, you know, when we talk about socialism, that's another word that's completely misunderstood. And no one really even knows what socialism means. Does it mean Denmark? Does it mean Venezuela?

Starting point is 00:06:34 Does it mean China, right? Which are all very different economies. Although Venezuela and Denmark, maybe not so different, partly based on what you're saying. But was there any centralized decisions? decision making in Venezuela, in the government, as you would find in China today? No, there was just a oil. There was never a centralized economy in Venezuela. Venezuela has always had a market economy.

Starting point is 00:07:01 I mean, a lot of what you have seen in Venezuela over the last bunch of years under Chavez and Maduro is sort of a more old-fashioned Latin American form of state-centered economics, which you had in, you know, is a fad of. up through the 1970s in a lot of these countries in Mexico and plenty of other countries where you know this the the government would take over certain industries or or control or regulate very heavily certain parts of the economy but that didn't make those countries socialist countries it was just the idea that more public participation uh was the better way to do these things and then by the end of the 70s everything reversed and or into the 80s and you had the opposite, you had privatization. These governments privatized all the companies that they had either created or taken over. And in Venezuela, you just sort of had a continuation of that,

Starting point is 00:07:56 partly because that's the, that's what Venezuelans, that's how Venezuelans think of government, because in Venezuela, the government is the oil industry. And the oil industry is the only game in town. And that's where all the money comes from. And so it's very natural in Venezuela, regardless almost of what party you're in to think of a heavy government participation in the economy. So William, what actually, got you? So what actually went wrong? What did Hugo Chavez do and then Maduro continue that seemed to have destroyed the Venezuelan economy? And as you write, even though they're sitting on a mountain of oil and tons of incredibly valuable natural resources, you almost can't screw it up, but they did. So what did they do wrong?

Starting point is 00:08:44 Well, a lot of things around went wrong there. When I was working on the book and I was trying to figure out how to describe it, I sort of got to this point where I came up with a very simple narrative, which was it rained money. They spent it all, stole some of it, wasted some of it, and then it stopped raining and people went hungry. I mean, essentially, Chavez was very fortunate because for a good part of Chavez's president, And he became president in 1999 and was president until 2013 when he died and Maduro took over, the price of oil is rising. And when Chavez comes to office, the price of Venezuelan oil was about $8 a barrel. And ultimately went up to $120 a barrel. And people like to say that Chavez had charisma. But what Chavez really had was oil at $100 a barrel. And that buys a lot of charisma. And so the country was just flooded with money. It just filled. up with money and they spent it and and you know, they spent some of it on social programs. They built houses and apartment buildings with some of it. A tremendous amount was stolen, a tremendous amount was wasted all over the country. There's hospitals that are half built,

Starting point is 00:09:58 never finished, schools, you name it, bridges that never got finished. It's a tremendous waste of resources. I mean, you look at all the money that came into that country. And if, you know, That government had been somewhat efficient, the country would be much better today. And essentially, the other thing is they saved nothing. They had billions and billions come in, they didn't save essentially a penny. And so then all of a sudden, Chavez dies in 2013, and in 2014, the price of oil starts to go down. And by early 2015, it had gotten down to $30 a barrel. And so they essentially ran out of money, and they hadn't saved that money. And at that point, Maduro sort of takes a bunch of bad decisions in terms of how to run the

Starting point is 00:10:40 economy and it just keeps getting worse and worse and enters his crisis. And how do they? Essentially because. Yeah. Yeah. So I get that part, but how do they wind up starting to slowly take apart democracy? Okay. Well, that's when we get to Chavez is one of the pioneers in what we've seen worldwide now,

Starting point is 00:11:04 which is these, you know, authoritarian figures, these charismatic, figures who come in and use democracy, use elections to get into office, to gain power. And then once they're there, they start to dismantle all those checks and balances and elements of democracy that they can stay in power. And, you know, that's essentially what Chavez did. And Chavez was brilliant at mining polarization. I mean, it's a real, you know, I like to say that Venezuela is a lesson for the United States, a cautionary tale for the United States. The countries are very different, but you can watch what happens when a country becomes deeply polarized politically, and the people in power decide to use that polarization and division to stay in power. And that's one of the classic elements of populism, where the leader comes in and he says, I represent the people.

Starting point is 00:11:57 I am the people, but the people is only part of the people, which are the people who are willing to support him. Yeah, so in Venezuela, what form did that take? So in America, that largely takes a racial form, a little bit of religious form, in Venezuela, how did they galvanize this? But galvanize their side, but split the country. Well, you know, those divisions were there to begin with, but then the leader comes in and really minds them and exacerbates them or emphasizes them. In Venezuela, it was rich versus poor, or poor versus rich from the Chavista perspective. That's where the socialist branding or the socialist narrative comes in handy for Chavez. And so, I mean, that's the simple and the simple way to look at it.

Starting point is 00:12:51 It was a class difference. So that's really interesting because in America, since the so-called populist, the fake populace, in my opinion, from the right wing, don't don't have the ability to use economic populism because they represent the rich and there's just not enough votes in the rich they have to use religion and race in order to do their populism but if you were coming out of from the left I suppose economic populism would be the logical way to rally people don't you think that under Trump a lot of what we saw was a kind of economic populism because you had this great big segment of the population that felt left out by globalization. And so, you know, there was a lot of economic populism

Starting point is 00:13:39 going on there. And when I say that it was that he mined the class divisions, I mean, obviously there was horrible problems with poverty in Venezuela. The problem is now that it's worse today. In other words, what happens in, I mean, there's been a lot of cases of economic populism in in Venezuela over the last 60, 70 years. And in every single one, these governments come in and they say, oh, we're gonna make the life better for the poor. And after that populist episode, ultimately it crashes. And the poor are worse off than when they started.

Starting point is 00:14:16 And in the case of Venezuela, I just think this is horrible cynicism because, you know, nothing, there was no sustainable form of social programs ever put into place. Everything they did was for popularity and to stay in power. And it was simply not, you know, it wasn't built to last. So we're wildly out of time. But nonetheless, I have to ask you a couple more things. So the populism doesn't necessarily have to be married to authoritarianism, right?

Starting point is 00:14:51 So that's why that would be my defense of populism and economic populism overall. So couldn't you argue that in, Uruguay, they did economic populism without the authoritarian streak, and it actually worked pretty well. Well, when are we talking about it in Uruguay? So the previous president, his name is case. Under Pepper Mujica? Yes.

Starting point is 00:15:12 Yeah, I don't think that I would call that populism. I would call that, you know, a moderate form of social welfare-based government, which isn't the same as populism. Yeah, okay, we're splitting hairs on the definition, I think. But I don't think that it has to be attached to authoritarianism. And if it is, I get that authoritarians will use it for their own benefit as they did in Venezuela. It's almost a perfect case for it. But I think you could do real economic populism without being evil.

Starting point is 00:15:45 Well, I think that a lot of people, you know, a lot of these episodes start out with good intentions. Yeah. Well, every accumulation of power, you know, uses some proxy to get that power, whether it's religious, racial, economic, or otherwise. Then the question is, do they mean it? And nine out of ten times, they don't mean it because they're trying to attain power, right? But it is certainly possible that one out of ten times they would mean it. And I would give FDR as another example. I would argue he was an economic populist, and he actually did deliver. I mean, I think we're running into semantic problems here because in Latin America, the history of populism tends to have very specific, especially economic populism, has very specific elements. And, you know, it often has to do with excessive government spending that doesn't match with, you know, government income through taxes or other means. And inevitably leads to these sort of imbalances in the economy that crash. So, okay, as I suspected, it's partly a definitional issue.

Starting point is 00:16:54 All right, super last thing. What do you think? Are we going to cut a deal with Venezuela to start bringing their oil back in to replace the Russian oil? I mean, there'd be some decent irony there. But I would be in favor of it because I think the sanctions are hurting the actual people of Venezuela. So thoughts on that.

Starting point is 00:17:11 Well, there's a lot to unpack there. The short version is that the U.S., starting under Trump, since Trump, the U.S. hasn't had Venezuela foreign policy, Trump had a Florida election strategy that utilized Venezuela. And then Biden comes into office, and he's basically stuck with the trap that Trump left him, where softening any of the measures, and especially the sanctions taken against Venezuela, have this very intense political backlash. And it was very effective for the Republicans in 2020, where Trump won the state, and they knocked off a couple of Democratic congresspeople.

Starting point is 00:17:55 And so Biden has been very wary about doing anything with Venezuela. When we saw this trip to Venezuela to meet with Maduro the other day, that was surprising. And that's because I think there was some feeling. that maybe the whole Ukraine thing had reshuffled the equation. But the blowback they got was intense and I would expect that they try to do something where they tweak the sanctions to let a company like Chevron, which is already doing business in a small way in Venezuela, expand what it does. And that will potentially bring in some oil from Venezuela for the first time in a few years.

Starting point is 00:18:34 And when the longer conversation is why do we have an oil embargo against Venezuela? And there's plenty to say about that. And essentially, that was John Bolton on the spur of the moment saying, let's hit him with everything we got. And they put in the oil sanction without considering all of the implications, including the social cost in Venezuela to all the ordinary people who suffered because of the impact on the economy. Color me surprised that John Bolton screwed up something. All right, super, super last thing. Maduro, would he take the deal? Is he a practical guy who thinks, yeah, Russia supported me this whole time, but what do I care?

Starting point is 00:19:16 I'm going to get more money from America. There's a lot of moving pieces there, but one of the things is that Venezuela, to get around the U.S. sanctions, has had to sell its oil to China at a discount, and it doesn't sell to the big Chinese government oil companies. It sells at these little, what they call sort of teapot refineries in China. And with the sanction against Russia, now all the Russian oil, which is way more than the Venezuela oil, is going to be going to those same buyers of oil. And they're much more likely to try and do business with the Russians than the Venezuelans.

Starting point is 00:19:48 So it may be that Maduro has a tremendous incentive to sell oil to the United States. Super interesting. Because he may not have, his market may be disappearing. I didn't know that either. That's a great point. All right, William Newman, author of Things are Never So Bad, They Can't Get Worse, Inside the Collapse of Venezuela. William, thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:20:09 Thanks very much. All right. All right, we've got a really important interview for you guys. We have a congressional candidate in the studio. We haven't a congressional candidate in the studio on a long, long, long. time. So I really happy to welcome Michael Shore running for Congress in California's 37th district to the program. Michael. Jenkins, nice to meet you. Okay. All right. Now, Michael is running for Congress. And of course, a lot of you know him because he's been on the Young Turks

Starting point is 00:20:48 many, many times. If some of you watching probably don't know that. So we're being very clear, I know Michael, Michael's a good friend of mine. And that's why I think he'd be a great congressman. So I'm just laying that out there, okay? And we don't hide our perspective on TYT. Now, having said that, I'm still going to ask you a number of questions that's important for your district to know and for everybody else out there to do. That's what, you know, that's part of doing this. So I'm glad to do it.

Starting point is 00:21:16 I'm glad, too, that this is the first place I'm doing it. Just because, you know, just as an aside, it feels like I'm coming home. So it's a, it's fun. First of all, I will represent where we are sitting right now. That's right. This is in your district. In my district. And so that part of it is cool in and of itself, but it is like being home, being back here and talking about what I'm doing, because so much of, you know, what brings me to this point is, was fostered in this building and building other buildings we were in before.

Starting point is 00:21:46 That's right. Michael is from the beginning. I mean, we just celebrated our 20th anniversary. And so Michael has appeared on and off for about 20 years. Obviously he said other jobs as a host on other networks and as a reporter and a political correspondent. And on current TV, he was for a good time known as Epic Politics Man. And it makes a lot of sense for Epic Politics Man to run for Congress. Okay, so for the folks who don't know, first of all, are you going to take corporate pack money? Absolutely not. No, I would never take corporate pack money. And I have to say just a little bit, and I know this is timed and we don't have a ton of it.

Starting point is 00:22:22 but but it doesn't take i've been doing this now full time for a week and it doesn't take more than just a couple of days to realize what poison money is in politics so as i'm doing it it is already distasteful there's not a chance in the world i would take corporate money but also i feel guilty taking private money hey can you have me that 1116s there you go thanks so you're still loving your new garage yep it with QSI was the best decision. QSI, huh? QSI got the job done fast and right,

Starting point is 00:22:57 and I was able to set it up just like I always wanted. Jess even told her sister she's throwing a one-person parade since I'm not underfoot anymore. Let QSI turn your dream shop into reality. Visit Quality Structures.com today. Because I'm thinking, I'm a guy who had a nice job, was making good money, left my job because I could, and I'm calling people who are able to,

Starting point is 00:23:22 give me money. And I'm thinking, what if you're somebody else? What if you're a man or a woman who owns a small business and can't leave it and doesn't have the network to get money from? Publicly financed campaigns has to happen at a certain point. 100%. And guys, when you ask for money in a publicly financed as opposed to a privately financed election, you actually still have to raise some money to make sure that you qualify. But it's like five bucks, you're asking somebody for five bucks or 10 bucks or 20 bucks. You're not asking for thousands of dollars. It makes all the different. in the world. So, by the way, sure for Congress.com. Sure for Congress.com. It's with

Starting point is 00:23:58 SH, obviously. And I say that after people say they don't take corporate PAC money, I give the website right away because then they need grassroots funding. They can't do it without grassroots funding. Okay, Michael, so let's let's go to the core thing first. Yeah. Why are you running? What motivated you to run? Okay, it's pretty simple, right? I mean, I have a long history with the young Turks, actually since day two, not day one, day two, in your apartment. And I have always been, you know, someone who's worn my opinion on my sleeve until a certain point where I've been an objective reporter covering politics around the country now for over a decade, you know, for longer than that. And what's, what I've noticed as I've done it is how

Starting point is 00:24:46 often I'm biting my tongue when I'm speaking to someone and and how dire the situation is right now. I mean, January 6th was the tip of the iceberg and it sounds hokey perhaps to talk about it that way. But if you are up close to this and you are proximate to the disaster that is coming down the pike, you can't help but want to do something about it. So of course I want to be in the game. Of course I want to be able to make change. I'm also going to be one of 435 people. I'm going to answer every question honestly. Someone will say, well, are you going to be able to make change when you're there? No, the answer is, am I going to be able to make change by myself as one of 435?

Starting point is 00:25:23 No. But my voice, which I think is a smart one and a reasonable one, is going to impact a group of people, a wave of change. So on my own, of course I'm not going to. So if you were to have a frank conversation, let's say you win, and you have a frank conversation with Democratic leadership, you're worried about January 6th because of the tide that's coming, right? And so what do you tell them?

Starting point is 00:25:44 Well, what do they have to do to make sure the bad guys don't win? Right. Okay, so there are two ways to answer that. I mean, one is that part of the job of a member of Congress is to tell the story of the people they represent in Washington. But I think it's also really important to tell the story of Washington to the people you represent. What is not being done properly there and what is actually, you know, I think, and very

Starting point is 00:26:07 often being done well in Washington. And so what I would tell the leadership there is that they are removed from what is really going on out in the field. Democrats don't meet Republicans very often. As a reporter, I met Democrats and Republicans. I was close to these people. I was talking to them in their living rooms on their front lawns, at rallies, all of it. So I think that I have a perspective that isn't in Washington right now, and I would tell

Starting point is 00:26:35 them that what is coming down the pike is as bad, if not worse, than what they saw on January 6th laid bare. And there has to be a way to prepare for that. And there has to be a way to start having a conversation with people about how you can make this something that cannot go on. I think preventive politics is really important. Playing defense is not, it's not really playing defense. But it's getting people aware so that they are ready for this and not surprised by it. All right. So let's go to some of the issues.

Starting point is 00:27:04 Now, look, you look at build back better. You're going to say, of course, you'd vote for it, right? And so that's easy. Easy. I mean, I would, you know, I think what Joe Manchin has done and what the other moderate Democrats have done to water it down is wrong. You know, and I think when you knew that you had Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema there, you don't water that bill down, right? If you know that they're going to stand in the way of it anyway, go for what you want. So trying to compromise on that politically made all the sense in the world, but you also knew the hand you were going to be dealt and you were getting false signals from these people who are Democrats. So chom tax credit. Well, yeah, keep it going and make it from, yeah, pre-K, absolutely. Yeah, so lowering drug prices. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:27:49 So through Medicare negotiating drug prices. So, okay, now let's take a really hard situation. Now, everybody says there for lowering drug prices. Everybody says that they want Medicare to be able to negotiate drug prices. Yet, it didn't happen under Bush, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. So what happens when they say? say, Michael, we can't do that. Well, here's, you know, first of all, it's not, it's not an overnight thing, right? And, and, and one scenario that I like to point to with

Starting point is 00:28:19 this is the leadership of the Democratic Party is older now, right? I mean, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Jim Clyburn, I'm not revealing any secrets, whatever you feel about them. There is going to be a changing with the guard. They would tell you that, right? Well, the changing of the guard has to be made with the input of the people who will be like me representing California's 37 district and going in and impacting who that leadership, if I'm not going to be in the leadership, impacting what the leadership's going to do. And the leadership has to make negotiating these prescription drug prices a hallmark of how they run for the leadership so that it comes from the top down rather than the bottom up. And I think that's the politics of it.

Starting point is 00:28:57 So look, every vote on leadership when it comes down, which is coming down in Pike pretty soon, right? For sure. Is going to be absolutely critical because either they're going to pick a leader, that's going to say, well, get along, go along, and maybe we can't get all that change. Or they're going to pick a leader that's going to aggressively say, no, we are going to go for negotiating drug prices through Medicare, et cetera. So which, of course, then leads to the larger issue of health care. So what's your stance on that? I mean, I'm for universal health care.

Starting point is 00:29:27 I mean, and I have been, I think if you go back to some of the worst tapes, and I'm talking about tape quality, video quality of the young Turks in history or the audio, I have believed, every day of my adult life that health care is a birthright. As soon as you are born, you are entitled to health care. I am for universal health care start to finish. And I don't, I think that there has to be a plan to phase it in in certain ways that that has to remain the goal entirely. It again, and I say this as a reporter, I say this as a friend, you know, and now as a congressional candidate. It's not going to happen the day I get to Congress or anyone. else next year. But what we can start having is a conversation about how to make it a

Starting point is 00:30:13 realizable goal and take steps to make it happen. So let me put it this way. So, you know, there's a lot of names for Medicare for all single payer, universal health care. It's been a goal of the Democratic Party for about 80 years, right? If there was a, I mean, literally for about 80 years. I mean, this is this is New Deal stuff, right? This is stuff after the Great Depression that we took a reset because it was forced to force it upon us and said this is something that we have to do for people so i i interrupted you by doing that for a long time but yeah that's true let me tell you about you guys today so but michael if there was a vote i i understand what you're saying but if there was a vote today on universal health care or single payer you know in whatever you call it i I mean, I could not, I could not vote for that any faster than, I mean, if it was a vote today, I would vote on it. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:31:08 Okay, that's clear. All right. So is another, I feel like these are all layups, because at this point, progressives or moderate Democrats would give this answer, whether they mean it or not, but $15 minimum wage. Yeah, obviously. But here's, and there's no but to the $15 minimum wage. Part of what I want to do, though, when I get to Congress, and again, you know, people say, what bill would. What do you do the first day you're in Congress? First day in my Congress, I'm going to be looking to see what office I got. And I'm going to be, there are lots of practicalities that go into it. But I think, you know, I think the infrastructure bill that was just passed is actually pretty good, right? I mean, it's something that a lot of people liked. It helps people.

Starting point is 00:31:49 But just as roads and bridges were broken, we're now dealing with small businesses that are broken. And small businesses, they're not a bad word, right? I mean, they are the lifeblood of the local economies around here. So I would like to see an infrastructure bill for small businesses that involved figuring out how to be able, as a caveat to that, to pay a $15 minimum wage. But I think you can do both. I think you can build up small business and also pay attention to the workers because that's what small business people want to do. There's a small business in your district that's called the Young Turks. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:24 So I can understand that as well. Yeah, we're literally not only in your district, but a small business. Right. And by the way, you've been, like everybody's been beaten down by this, by the pandemic. I'm not saying anything that's new. But that's what happens. If a bridge is broken, an infrastructure bill helps that broken bridge get repaired. If business is broken, and that's our community, why not have an infrastructure bill targeted just at small businesses?

Starting point is 00:32:51 Yeah. And by the way, PPP did a pretty good job of targeting small businesses. It did. And it worked. And when we did the town hall in Cleveland for Nina Turner, she also talked a lot about small business. So it's interesting that progressives are headed in a direction where we go, look, we're all going to have to stick together, both individuals and small businesses against the hegemon of giant business. Well, I mean, that's it, right? And the people we know, most of them work for small businesses or trying to, you know, whether they're waiters, whether they are employees, this is what. makes community community. And what do we do as progressives? When we see Walmart come in

Starting point is 00:33:31 and undercut everybody and pay poor wages, we reel at it as progressives. And so there's nothing wrong. There's nothing owned by another side when you're talking about small business. This is America. This is us. Yeah. Sure for Congress.com. I know we're out of time, but I got to ask you one foreign policy question. And if you want to see more of me and Michael talking about policy, just go on our channel. You can see hours and hours and hours of it. Okay, but, and so in a sense, there isn't a candidate with their position as better note, right? Right, well, that's what, I mean, you know, when someone else I know ran for Congress, they were one ahead of me. But yeah, what I've talked about for a really long time is out there, it's in here.

Starting point is 00:34:12 But it's true, like it's all on the record. That's right. But on foreign policy, how do you think Biden's doing, especially with Ukraine? Look, I think that there's been obvious, you know, missteps. People get so upset about the exit from Afghanistan, right? I don't know that that is, I don't know that there is another way to do it, or if doing it another way would have avoided some of the tragedy that happened there. I think doing it is really the most important part of it. And all the hands he's been dealt on foreign policy have been sort of NATO-related or in other land foreign policy, which is foreign policy. But what I'm talking about is he has to be reliant on what other people think of it too, right?

Starting point is 00:34:54 So we're looking at Ukraine and we're looking at Russia right now. But NATO is 30 countries. And it's not Joe Biden coming in there and wreaking havoc if he has to and going. But I also don't think that he's done enough diplomacy with China on this issue. And I think that that would be an interesting place for any president to start with when you're dealing with Russia. Yeah, we just talked today on the Young Turks or yesterday, if you were watching this later, about how, China's on the fence. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:26 And maybe there's a way to nudge them over. That's exactly. To bring them into our sphere instead of the Russian sphere, especially as the Russians appear to be losing for what that's worth. Right. Right. But yeah, losing or not, it's still the on the fence part is the most important. Here you have China who you would think, oh my God, they're going to be with Russia.

Starting point is 00:35:45 The mere fact that they're not means that I would have, and I don't know that the administration doesn't, but I would be much more public about trying to woo China to, to the, to the, Western way of thinking on this issue. Right. All right, Michael's sure, breath of knowledge, obviously. And so not a lot of candidates can talk policy like that, by the way. I've known a lot of candidates that couldn't do that, unfortunately. Surefor Congress.com, sure for Congress.com.

Starting point is 00:36:10 Raise your hands if you're sure. Fill in every sure pun you have. Finally, finally in my life, I hated the sure name my whole hour. Are you sure? Are you sure? Now I'm embracing the sure last night. It's the best political last name there's ever been. Right, is your slogan going to be, yes, I'm sure. Well, sure we can is what we have right now.

Starting point is 00:36:29 Sure we can. Oh, by the way, we had a tight, I know we're way over time. We had a, I had a show here at the Young Turks called Reasonably Sure. And that's kind of my marketing for going to Congress, is that I, is my reasonableness on so many of these issues. Yeah, that's good, he's reasonably sure. And by the way, when Brent Welder ran for Congress, we thought, how cool would have be if a TYT member became a member of Congress? When AOC ran, how cool would it be if a TYT fan became a member of Congress?

Starting point is 00:37:00 Now, how cool would it be if a TYT host for it to become a member of Congress? It would be amazing, I'm, I'm TYT, this is home, I'm never going to stop feeling that way. So I'm, thanks for having, thanks for having me, this is a weirdest thing in the world. It's great to be here, thanks. I'm also always going to be a 49ers fan, even though I represent L.A., and I'm not going to be one of those politicians who just picked up the Rams like J.R. or something. Oh, watch. Watch that on Wise list. All right, Michael is sure running for Congress in the 37th district of California. It's a very important race. It's the, it's to replace Karen Bass, who is a progressive vote. So we need a good replacement for

Starting point is 00:37:43 that. It's a wide open race. Anyone can win. So Michael, thank you for joining us. Appreciate it. Thanks. All right. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks, support our work, listen to ad-free, access members-only bonus content, and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.

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The Young Turks - Broken Promises

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