The Young Turks - Down Goes Rudy

Episode Date: December 16, 2023

Rudy Giuliani Ordered To Pay Nearly $150 million to Georgia election workers. CNN reports highly classified Russian intel disappeared in the final days of the Trump administration in the "case of the missing binder." New polls in seven battleground states show Trump leading over Biden in every single one. Billionaires are bankrolling judges’ luxury travel. Conservatives are outraged about an innocent dance video in the White House. HOSTS: W Mondale Robinson (@mondalerobinson), John Iadarola (@johniadarola) and Ramesh Srinivasan (@rameshmedia) SUBSCRIBE on YOUTUBE: ☞ https://www.youtube.com/user/theyoungturks FACEBOOK: ☞ https://www.facebook.com/theyoungturks TWITTER: ☞ https://www.twitter.com/theyoungturks INSTAGRAM: ☞ https://www.instagram.com/theyoungturks TIKTOK: ☞ https://www.tiktok.com/@theyoungturks 👕 Merch: https://shoptyt.com ❤ Donate: http://www.tyt.com/go 🔗 Website: https://www.tyt.com 📱App: http://www.tyt.com/app 📬 Newsletters: https://www.tyt.com/newsletters/ If you want to watch more videos from TYT, consider subscribing to other channels in our network: The Watchlist https://www.youtube.com/watchlisttyt Indisputable with Dr. Rashad Richey https://www.youtube.com/indisputabletyt The Damage Report ▶ https://www.youtube.com/thedamagereport TYT Sports ▶ https://www.youtube.com/tytsports The Conversation ▶ https://www.youtube.com/tytconversation Rebel HQ ▶ https://www.youtube.com/rebelhq TYT Investigates ▶ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNJt9PYyN1uyw2XhNIQMMA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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3rd 3rd 3rd 3rd Drop it like Rudy Giuliani's Netany's Net Worth. Welcome back one and all to another edition of The Young Turks on Friday. I am joined by a mixed panel joining us remotely. We have once again Mondale Robinson. Mondale always great to have you here. Mondale is of course a host at Rebel HQ as well as Mayor of Enfield, North Carolina.

Mondale, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me, John. Great to have you here. We got some fun stories for you. Don't worry. But then we also have a literal person in the same vicinity as me. Ramesh Sronovassan back once again in studio. Great to have you here. Author, professor, and longtime contributor to the Young Turks as well. Thank you for being here. And more than anything, a friend of the Young Turks, I'd be happy to be with you. And, you know, John, you and I have interacted in person, but I remember also talking with you from literally small villages in India in the middle of the night.

In the middle of the night, yes, it was far more inconvenient for you than for me, timing wise. Yeah. But great to have you here. I just, I miss the days of turning and looking at a person here here. But it is also great that in this time we're able to expand our reach and bring in people who can't physically be here like Mondale. So Mondale, thank you once again. Good to meet you, Mondale. You too, brother. And I'm so sad I can't try to look at you guys. Sorry, we'll get you over here eventually. And I didn't know this is the first time you're doing a show together as well. That's awesome. Well, this is our first hour panel, but we also have an exciting panel coming up in one hour. Jank Uger is going to be here and joined by Brett Ehrlich and Jordan Yule, so definitely stay tuned for

that as well. But we get to go first, which means we get first dibs on the awesome news, which is coming up in just a little bit, and it's gonna be a lot of fun. And then we have big updates on classified documents, more polls for Biden. Are they good? Are they disastrous? Stay tuned to find out, and Fox News loses their mind about Christmas as they are contractually obligated to do. But with that said, are you guys ready? You wanna jump into some news? Okay, let's talk about what's been going on.

Down goes Rudy to the tune of $148 million that he will owe to Georgia election workers who he defamed, starting an avalanche of lies and conspiracy theories and death threats against them that continues to this day. Now, that is a big number, admittedly, and Rune Giuliani certainly seems to think it's excessive. Take a look. Of course, there's very little I can say right now. I have to analyze this, obviously, possibly will move for a new trial, certainly will appeal. The absurdity of the number merely underscores the absurdity of the entire proceeding, where I've not been allowed to offer one single piece of evidence in defense, of which I have

have a lot. So I am quite confident when this case gets before a fair tribunal, it'll be reversed so quickly. It'll make your head spin. And that perhaps will come. He certainly will appeal. We'll see if that is successful. But look, we're going to get into the content of what he said and also reactions from those who he defamed. But I just want to pause and get a reaction from both of you on the panel, $148 million is on the one hand, considering that it's being levied against a guy who is as evil as he is cartoonish, something that's going to generate a little bit of Schadenfreude and me. But it is also a very large number. So I want to start with you, Mondale. What do you make of that? Does it seem appropriate?

I think it is appropriate. I think the message is not about Rudy Giuliani, the court and also the people that were suing him don't expect to get $148 million. If anything, I think the message is, though, everybody that is threatening democracy, be on alert, be on watch. And I think that message was sent loud and clear, especially when you consider the fact that the sisters were only asking for $48 million. And when I say sister, I'm referring to our ethnicity, not their relationship with their mother and daughter. But they were asking $48 million, and the jury went above that and offered an extra $100 million. So I think this is a message about America's democracy, and I think it's a wonderful thing. Rovesh?

No, it's actually a great, it's great news because I, I, I, regardless of the specifics of the number involved, right, 148 million versus 48 million, it's a, it's a rare example that we see here in this country where systems of power, systems of justice, actually in this particular case side and side and sided with those who are more marginalized, right? And so Giuliani has made a career out of exploiting working class people. people of color, flushing people out of New York City from his days as the mayor of New York and so much more. And then his alliance with Trump and so on. And so I think generally we see in this country again and again and again, those who are more marginalized end up getting the

most screwed by decisions and adjudications and politics more generally. So here at least we see some comeuppance. And Giuliani looks shocked. He looks shook in this in this video right here. Yeah, and look, maybe there are some people who are physically, emotionally and psychologically constituted in a fashion that they can weather this. I don't think he's, I think he's scoring zero out of three on that. And he is worried, he will appeal, he is allowed to in our system. And while, you know, I don't know exactly what that number should be, I hear what both of you are saying, and I will say, like you were attempting to put a number on two women who will never be able to have the life that they did again.

Even with all this money, like they, it doesn't matter that a judge has already said that the comments were defamatory. Rudy Giuliani is still largely standing by every single thing that he said. And the tens of millions of Americans that believe every one of the conspiratorial racist comments that he made will believe that until the day they die. And until Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss die, they're still going to get comments about this. Maybe years from now, it'll be a little bit rarer, a little bit more time between them. But they will not be able to apply for a job, meet a new person without being, like that is the story of their life now, is that they were attacked by Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump in his effort to overturn democracy.

Yeah, I mean, increasingly we live in a culture, and Mondi, I'm curious to what you think also. It's like, I feel like increasingly we live in a culture where defamatory, slanderous or libelous content, or just categorizing someone in a very negative way, even if you're just completely lying about it, that's what sticks rather than the work to repair the image, right? And I think part of that is that is what that is amplified and accented, as we've talked about before, John, by the nature of social media, right? Which tends to take content that's defamatory and have that go viral and actually work as a sort of kind of incarcerating space, a bordered space where, you know, people who are either reveling in the hateful tweets of Giuliani can kind of continue to revel or the rest of us are left, you know, being like anxious and irritated and frustrated. Right? So the damning nature of what Giuliani did is deeply costly and almost impossible to put any price to. Yeah. Any of the thoughts about now? Yeah. Yeah. I think also there we also have to consider the fact that the way we catch news now is not like it used to be any older days.

So what happens is people on people in the Fox sphere won't even hear about this settlement other than to demonize the two women who were just victimized by Rudy Giuliani. So their story will be that Ruli Gideani and Trump and anybody else that lose lawsuits for this behavior will be made into martyrs, right? So this is at Bonafides to all of the people that the system is working against the so-called white people of America that traditionally owned this space. So I think what happens is we are in a dangerous space, as you both said. But I think I think what's going to happen in it not even in it like a distant future tomorrow. These women will be back on guard being being threatened or being attacked for whatever reason. We know what happens to black victims, especially when they are successful plaintiffs and lawsuits. 100%. Yeah, yeah, they're going to have to be vigilant online and in person for the rest of their life, even if they get a significant chunk of this money, which remains to be seen.

But that said, we've been talking about the comments. So why don't we go to Rudy Giuliani being asked about, whether he holds any regrets on having said what he said. Do you have any regrets about some of the comments that the women received? Well, of course, the comments they received, I had nothing to do with. Those comments are abominable, they're deplorable. No defense to it, but I receive comments like that every day. Different kinds of things. I've represented clients who have gotten that from the other side.

This is a terrible part of our political system. Republicans, Democrats, liberals, and conservatives all get that. that. My comment weren't that? So yes, regrets, but no, no, no actual regrets. Nothing that he said, which he still says that everything he said was accurate. And if only he'd been able to provide evidence, he could prove it. It's been three years. I think that if you were gonna prove it, you would have by now.

And he had nothing to do with the death threats, the threats of lynchings and rape, and all of that doesn't have anything to do with him. If he hadn't suddenly elevated them to the national stage in that courtroom, They would have just spontaneously been the focus of right wing conspiracy theories. He didn't have to do anything. And look at the defense there. I get comments, Democrats get comments, Republicans get comments, that's our political system. Okay, maybe, and that sucks by the way, let's not just accept that status quo, but maybe people who willingly make themselves in a national political figures, governors, lawyers for presidents and everything, get some of that and need to expect it.

They were election workers, they were not running for Senate, as if that would excuse it. They had no interest in their names being, you know, like thrown around in the media and on 4chan and they would not have been, were it not for him. So even after $148 million, he still doesn't take any responsibility for what he did. Mondale, what do you think? I mean, what do we expect it from Mr. Stopp and Frist himself, right? I mean, like this is a guy who who who could literally justify. In front of many cameras, the practice of stopping frisk, and this is no different. I mean, this is a continuation of a stubborn old white man being a stubborn old white man.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's whenever you are, one is in a position of power, as you said, John, you can expect to be criticized, right? Even in this particular way of the social media environment, it could be pretty vicious. But Giuliani has been for a very long time in a position of great power and privilege and wealth. And accordingly, he's been criticized and had negative comments made about him. Never mind that all of his crimes that he's committed, at least allegedly. But he actually took these two working, you know, like election workers and put them in front of these ravenous mobs, right? It's like taking the meat and feeding it to the wolves, right?

So that itself is not, it's not just a defamatory act for him to say something about them that's not true on Twitter, but also to set it up in such a way where now they are exposed and their lives are threatened in certain senses. We are on some level lucky, and they are lucky, that thankfully, they are still alive to this day. Because that was no guarantee as soon as they were the target of these insane racist conspiracy theories. There are plenty of people around the country that were not only sending them messages, threats, racist attacks, saying they should be hanged, people telling them they fantasize about hearing the sound of their neck snapping. There are people who really believe that and wish that someone would act on it. And thankfully, we've gotten this point where thankfully that did not happen. And by the way, we haven't played his comments.

We've done it a thousand times, so I'm not going to right now. But if you think it's like why you guys keep bringing up race, they were explicitly racist theories. He was constantly like pretending that any motion they make of their bodies is something to do with drug dealing, heroin this and marijuana that had nothing to do with anything that he was saying he chose to make it about that and I want to remind you too that it wasn't just just messages as if that would be okay. People showed up at their home. They tried to execute a citizen's arrest of Moss at her grandmother's house and I will remind you that they were talking about doing citizens arrest in some recent cases. This is now a thing that they just routinely talk about on the right. They called Moss's 14 year old son's cell phone so much that it

interfered with his virtual classes and ended up having failing grades. So they were harassing other family members of them. And so that that's what they had to endure. It is entirely likely that this judgment will result in a new round of fury at them for having to, basically blaming them for the financial difficulties that Rudy Giuliani is going to have. So yeah, I continue to be worried about them. I hope that some of this money, if they get it, goes to private security because the dark reality is that they need it in America. They cannot simply exist. Yeah, I mean, that was pretty much my point is that what, given what's already been done to these, you know, two likely innocent people, right? What amount of money could ever undo the wrongs that were done, right?

You're almost forced to live a life where you're, you know, continuously anxious or scared or concerned. That's something that your own life could be at risk accordingly. So, you know, there's no amount of money. There's no amount of, there isn't necessarily in my mind any justice for. these women outside of financial remuneration to try to at least partially compensate for such. Because once you're down and dragged into the mud in this kind of situation, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean like as a person who one is a historian, a self-proclaimed historian, that's me on black things. And then also a person who is an elected official that's

suffering from some of the same people threatening these women because I took down a Confederate monument, The largest plan chapter live extremely close to where these women reside and they definitely make it their business to threaten them. And I think we need to remind people that the clan rebirth happened right outside of where these women lived. We don't know where they live now and unfortunately that's what is going to be the case for them for the rest of life. The world will never know where they live and it's for their safety. And that living in this life is enough stress being black in America to add the fact that you are a particular black that has offended the white system and it's coming after you is something extremely nerve reckoning so much so that when I film

you see me on different shows across T.I.T. I'm always in a different space. And it's because I'm running from the lawyer White Knights on a regular basis. And my donors for my organization had to find security for me. So I can't even imagine what it means to have the entire MAGA and black world, black net after you. So this is. This is a real thing for these people, not to mention, and I need people to understand that the largest owed to KKK to the white supremacy is 30 some miles away from Atlanta in Stone Mountain, Georgia, and people don't talk about it enough. That's a great point, a great point.

I want to, I guess I should probably apologize. We've been so focused on Giuliani, and I understand sort of why. But let's also stop for a second and talk about Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. The two women who were defamed by Rudy Giuliani have spoken out in the wake of this $148 million verdict against him, saying, and this is Ruby Freeman in this case, saying today is a good day. A jury stood witness to what Rudy Giuliani did to me and my daughter and held him accountable. And for that I'm thankful, Giuliani was not the only one who spread lies about us and others must be held accountable to announcing there that, you know, first of all, this case is not done. It's going to be appealed. But they intend to seek justice against the others who spread lies. lies against them. Moss said the flame that Giuliani lit with those lies and passed to so many others to keep that flame blazing changed every aspect of our lives, adding that it's been devastating for her and her mother and that they are still working to rebuild.

She said she hopes no one else will ever have to experience what they went through. And Freeman underscored that despite the major financial numbers that we're seeing right here, that money will never solve all of my problems. I can never move back into the house that I called home. I will always have to be careful about where I go and who I choose. to share my name with, I miss my home, I miss my neighbors, and I miss my name. And like the exact sort of sociopaths who in the media, the right wing media were spreading the lies about her, I'm sure they can't even understand that because everything they do,

the insane things that they say, the harm they're willing to, you know, push on to people is in pursuit of money. That's at the end of the day, all that matters to these people, they're soulless. But there are real people out there who just wanted to volunteer to help elections happen. And now that has been taken away from them virtually. Every touchstone of their life has been irreparably harmed. So I understand. And they're gonna have a fight, not just, you know, once they move on to other people who had lied, but even to get this money from Rudy Giuliani, we know that he's wealthy. We don't know how wealthy. He refused in these cases to actually provide financial details about his life. It's actually one of the reasons

that the judge initially ruled that he was using defamatory language. We know that he's being sued for $1.3 million by his former lawyer. We know that he is trying to sell a New York apartment for $6.5 million. We know that he was paid $350,000 by a political action committee affiliated with Donald Trump. And there was recently a $100,000 a head fundraiser for Giuliani that Trump actually led, which which is more action by Trump than I would have expected to help out Rudy Giuliani. So a little bit more loyalty than I have come to expect from Trump.

But also the fact that there are people who will dish out $100,000 ahead to help out what is left of Rudy Giuliani is a reminder that taxes are not nearly high enough in this country. So anyway, the fight will continue. They're happy, celebratory a little bit, but a sort of measured response. Mondale, what do you make of what these women said? Well, I mean, I think it's, to me, the most important part or the part they hit the most is when you hear someone who is first or second generation homeowner ever in her family, not being able to go back to the house that she spent 20 years in because of Rudy Gianni is absolutely disgusting to me, right? This, this so I think that hit me the most. And I wanted to say something about what you said, John, because you, you were, you were spot on about.

Whether he's wealthy or not, whether he's wealthy or not, the harm that he's done can't be paid for. It can't, you can't pay for the fact that you built something. You spent 20 years somewhere and you didn't move because you wanted to or because you decide to upsell or downsize your life. You move because your life was being threatened. And I don't know how you explain that to people and make them hear it. Yeah. Yeah. Any final thoughts?

Yeah. I mean, just the, I think the most, the final thought I have is maybe more idealist. in a sense, which is I just wonder how, I mean, in the case of Giuliani, I think we know what the reality is, but I wonder if all of us can just sort of take stock of how easy it is to share opinions about others that could actually harm them. It's really easy to harm others, even when we don't even realize that we're doing so. And I think that it's so easy to post or blast something out that's defamatory or hateful these days because we have all these, you know, digital networks like right in our pockets, right? But think about the actual

harm and is there a way to make, you know, I really wish for our country and our digital world to be more compassionate and more care, you know, more caring of others. So I'll end with that idealism there. I think it's a great thing to think about. I'm not worried about that. I just do straight news. I never inject my opinion. But for others, I do think, I'm kidding, that that is a good thing to very mind. And look, the internet held so much promise at one point. And then it turned out that, oh, it's humans that are going to be using it. That's an issue.

Yeah, I wish it could be more compassionate, more positive, more educational, more productive. And knowing fully well, John and Mondale, that these digital systems, these private corporations that run these technology corporations, monetize hate and outrage because it's more eyeballs and it's more data. Yeah, great point. And that's a fact. I was just going to say that just remember. I remember when Twitter was just us nerds. It was a beautiful space and there were no blue checks.

It was just nerds and it was wonderful. Also, I would say that can you believe this guy we're talking about was Times man of the year? It's crazy. Wow. Yeah. But he might still make ooze of the decade. We'll have to see. But anyway, yes, everyone try to be a little bit more compassion.

as you go about your lives. You can start in our chat rooms, by the way, on Twitch and YouTube. We do have to take our first break, though. When we come back, updates on the classified documents case. I thought we knew everything we needed to know about that. Turns out there was a bombshell waiting to be revealed and we'll discuss it after this. One of the hardest parts of getting older is feeling like something's off in your body, but not knowing exactly what. It's not just aging. It's often your hormones, too. When they fall out of balance, everything feels off. But here's the good news. This doesn't have to be the story of your next chapter. Hormone Harmony by Happy Mammoth is an herbal formula made with science-backed ingredients

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Welcome back one and all. I'm John. Ronald Bondale and Ramesh. And we've got more news. Take a look at this. New exclusive CNN reporting about highly classified intelligence that went missing at the end of the Trump administration. The intelligence was related to Russian election interference in the United States. It was so secret, it was kept inside a safe within another safe at CIA headquarters. But in the final weeks of the Trump administration, a copy of that intelligence was put inside a binder brought to the White House as part of an effort to declassified documents related to the FBI's Russia probe. And from there, the trail goes cold. Yeah, there were more documents. And of all of the things the documents could address,

Russian interference in the 2016 election is the content of the documents, the binder. The massive, 10 inch thick binder, by the way, it just happened to go missing. It's so, weird. And so on theme, by the way, for the way that it was supposed to be securely stored, that they had a safe inside of a safe, sort of like a Russian nesting doll sort of security strategy there. But that's gone. We don't know where that is. There are some theories, and we're going to get into the evidence, but we have a little bit more first. So this binder that was brought to the White House contained raw intelligence that the U.S. and its NATO allies collected on Russia's efforts to meddle in the 2016 election,

including sources and methods, which are some of the most sensitive information in the intelligence world. So what we're talking about here is the underlying intelligence that formed the basis of the U.S. government's assessment that Russian president, Vladimir Putin, sought to help Trump win the 2016 election. So there is some information for you. We have a little bit more. Okay, so to the best of everyone's collective ability, It has been able to be tracked to the last known whereabouts of this 10-inch thick binder again, the last days of the Trump administration, and supposedly former chief of staff Mark Meadows was reported to have made a mad dash minutes before Joe Biden was sworn in in an attempt to declassified documents, which could have included that particular binder.

That's what they're saying. He apparently rushed to the DOJ to hand-deliver a redacted copy for one last review. years later, the Justice Department has yet to release all the documents, despite Trump's declassification order. Additional copies with varying levels of redaction ended up at the National Archives. He apparently, by the way, Meadows had made copies of the binder for some conservative politicians and journalists, and CNN notes that the copies initially sent out were frantically retrieved at the direction of White House lawyers demanding additional redactions. So there are a couple of potential reasons that they might want to do last minute redactions

after giving these documents to conservative politicians and journalists. It could be that they're like trying to protect, like it's about Russian efforts to meddle in the election. It's not like they're trying to redact a conclusion that they didn't, that nothing untoward was done and Trump comes out of it looking like a really cool, innocent guy. They obviously gave this to journalists because they thought there was something that the journalist could use that would be harmful for Hillary Clinton, Comey, I don't know. And then they realized after giving it out that there was something that they didn't want friendly politicians and journalists to know about. And then eventually, it's just gone.

It was not among the documents that were recovered from Mar-a-Lago. No word yet on whether it's in his former ex-wife's coffin along possibly with other documents. There's a lot of concern about possibly having been flown somewhere. There's a few other theories too, but I've thrown a lot out there, Ramesh, I want to start with you. What do you make of this? I mean, sure, it's it's another example of how casually, not just the former president, but in general, these sorts of secrets that are supposed to be so, you know, ironclad can just get out or or just disappear, right? And I think it's actually interesting to think about that in relation to the physical binders of secrets, those being lost because I think a pretty clear assumption that many of us know these days is almost anything digital or datified at some point. I mean, I can't say almost anything, but very often these things get leaked or dumped out, right?

So the other thing that I note is if such information is actually really important, would that not be critically important in terms of trying to protect, you know, whatever level of integrity we can with the forthcoming election? You know, we know that the Russians interfered in our election. We also know that that's a very common thing. That's not sort of a unique thing that countries interfere in one another's elections. Sometimes in our case, that might mean our military, like just invading and killing people. You know what I mean? That's our version of it, right? So given that and given, you know, so much anxiety associated with Putin in real, you know, who just said he's going to stay on until at least 2030, right?

And what's likely to come where the media is going to try to figure out a way to, you know, critique Trump, with this binder going missing, I mean, that's a, that's a potentially serious issue. It's a potentially very serious issue. And I guess it gets to the larger point about the larger inequalities that we have as human beings. I think this is a little bit tied to this, right? So as citizens of this country, we are only barely aware of how often we are being surveilled. Not just by private corporations, but by the state, right? The state and corporations, private corporations are best buddies in this country because of the corruption of the political system, right?

But it's so interesting how rarely we actually learn about those who spy on us, right? We know we are spied on, but we are never able to watch the watchers, right? So in this particular case, the watcher might be the Russian state, which could actually be important in trying to protect whatever we can out of this election. So it's at least supportive of us U.S. citizens, though that itself is a nauseating thing to even begin to think about. Yeah, I think that's a great point. Monday, all thoughts? I'm, I'm, here's what baffling to me. How in the hell are we just hearing about this?

I'm, I'm, I'm confused that we're just hearing about this, mainly for, because if we don't know what this document is, this 10, 10 inch thick document is binder, and it was raw intelligence, that mean anybody, any source that had anything to do with it should be pulled out of the field. All of those agents should be decommissioned for their safety. And just because we don't know who has this document and who they've shared it with, this, if I was an agent for the United States or any of our allies and I had, my name was in that document, I would be on fire right now. On fire. Like, this is Scooter Libby level crazy to me. The fact that we're talking about human capitals, not just the way that we retrieved, the people who were able to put

this document together, the people, the sources, their contacts, all of those people are in jeopardy. And I'm just a little nervous about the fact that Senate leadership knew about this for so long, people in the CIA knew about this for so long. And America, citizens like us are just hearing about this. Seriously, dangerous. Yeah, it's just a great example of how little is actually disclosed to us as U.S. citizens about these sort of apparatuses of surveillance, right? And the other thing I would, and so like how like we are supposed to be the ones in power in this country, but we know so little about what is being done to us, even in a sort of governmental sense, even in terms of our own state government, our own national government, surveilling us all. But then the other thing just to remember is in case any of this information includes Russians who had corroborated or collaborated with these so-called intelligence agencies, they're all in big trouble. Because we know what the Russian government and Putin does to anyone who gets in his way.

Yeah, yeah. They're in big trouble or big, big graves. They may be already dead because if the documents will retreat, sent back to Russia or leaked to anybody in their circle, they've already been wiped out, them and likely a lot of other people. So it's extremely baffling. 100%. There's a lot, I think that. And I'll close with one other thing that's sort of baffling to me.

Like Cassie Hutchinson, you know, former aide under the Trump administration, said that she's almost certain that Mr. Meadows had it. And she was the one who wrote in her book enough that he had been like in the last minutes of the Trump administration before Biden was sworn in, running around with a binder under one arm like a football telling journalist John Solomon, how fast can you get me to the Department of Justice? They can use lights and sirens, sir. You should make it there before noon and even with the road clerk. This is like, I have to get this out of the city. He said at one point, good, let's do it. I am not going to be the chief of staff who doesn't get this binder declassified. So hold on, remember, and just think about this. So first of all, I'm also mad that they didn't tell us about this. This whole time we've been worried about what could have been in the documents that were stolen. It would have been helpful to know that there was stuff that's directly tied to one of the

shadiest areas of the Trump administration and it's first term. But like they've been saying ever since, you don't know if we declassified this stuff. All I have to do is wrinkle my nose. We could have declassified, but we know that they didn't go through the process except apparently At the last minute for this one thing as if they were thinking until the last minute, well, surely Biden's not actually getting into office. Oh damn, he's going to. This is the most important document in the government. What the hell is in that thing? Any final quick thoughts for a move on? No, I mean, I just think that like I'll just kind of dial back and

look at this from above, right? This election is coming up now. I know we're, you know, you all are going to be constantly covering this and and we're going to be talking about this even more today but it's it's i i really really really hope we can put some power and and and specificity to try to ensure that this election is as fair and is of as much integrity as possible so like all right we have like a little air to breathe and a little time before things really get rolling and drummed up of course the caucuses and all this are coming soon but are there ways we progressives, or let's just say, American citizens can try to come together and insist on a set of rules and protocols that ensure some level of integrity. Because I just think

that right now we're just surrounded by anxiety and a sense of alienation. Like, I think a lot of people are just not going to roll out and vote for this election. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of that. Manuel, final thoughts? So yeah, I think for me, his was destively to me. I don't think people care. I mean, we see a large swath of Americans population actually still going along with the big lie. I don't think that they care. People are no longer bothered by Putin. Putin is not an enemy because Trump said so. Putin has become as cool as Trump in some circles. And that is, that is the scary part. That is what, that is, we found out that the Constitution is not loving the Constitution is not what may make you patriotic in 2024 election cycle, right? What makes you patriotic is if

support Donald Trump and whatever he wants to do, including being a dictator on day one. So I think we are already past the point where we can put up guardrails to stop this. We are we as, as I'm glad you said, as much as possible, because as much as possible means that Donald Trump can't take us out of NATO if he is to win because we just saw that be presented. But I think right now as a place of our election, we people don't even care about election integrity or democracy anymore, not everybody. I don't want to be that cynical, but there's a large swap of people. And we have to know that because they see Trump out of Trump losing from Republican judges that he appointed.

And then they just turn their back on those people. Any institution in this country that is not stand up for Donald Trump's big lie becomes anti-American, anti-patriotic. Which means the only thing you left is if you are American, if you are patriotic, you must support Donald Trump. And that's it. 100%. Yeah. Okay, we're going to leave you with that thought, everyone. We're going to take a quick break when we come back.

Lots more to get to. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to what remains at the first hour of the power panel. We've got more. Let's jump into it. party don't want him to run again. And the polls that show his handling of the economy, foreign policy, all of these dismal polls, his job approval ratings, does the White House have any basis to challenge the accuracy of that polling? I never, we never, I'm not challenging the accuracy here. That's not what I'm doing. What I'm saying to you is that, you know, we're not going to change the minds of Americans. I get that. Americans are going to feel how

they feel. You should though. You should really try to change the minds of the Americans because the polls look really bad. I'm not telling you how to run for office, but generally you want people to not hate you. Anyway, the polls that Karin-Jean-Pierre is being asked about right there are bad. And to be clear, they're not challenging the accuracy of them. But let's see, recent Bloomberg News morning console poll head to head, Biden versus Trump, which is still what it's looking like most likely the outcome to be.

Trump is up by four points in Arizona, six points in Georgia, four points in Michigan, three points in Nevada, nine points in North Carolina, two points in Pennsylvania, four points in Wisconsin. There is a margin of error, but at a certain point the pattern becomes fairly clear. So I would say get on changing people's minds because this is not tenable, not if you care as much about the future of American democracy as you're telling us, you do. Mondale, I want to start with you. What do you make of the current state? We're still 11 months out from the election, admittedly, a lot can change. You could be a jailbird by then, but what do you make of this? I'm not implying that anybody's in violation of the Hatch Act. I am saying that what we just saw from the press secretary is the exact problem that the Biden campaign has.

The fact that you're going to say that we can't change America's mind is the wrong thing to say. The correct thing to say is we're not the first incumbent president to be down a year out from election in the polls, right? Like if Obama would have dropped out a year out before the election because he was down in the polls and he went out a second term. That's the correct thing to say. The idea that you're not trying to change people mind is exactly how you're going to make these polls come to fruition next November. I am absolutely disgusted with that response. But it's par for the course when you have, I mean, I'm not. applauding too much of the Biden's presidency, it's been milk toast as as it was expected to be.

But it has, there has been some serious legislation passed that they could be bragging about. The idea that she didn't talk about when he said something about the abysmal market, they should have bragged about the stock market. But I'm not here to tell the Biden campaign how to run. I would love for them to drop out if they need to. I could give them some pointers on some things he could do other than be president. The problem, though, is this is the problem. Not just the poll itself, I don't care too much about polls because they're polling the people that they want to, i.e. likely voters. They're not talking to a majority of certain segments, which means people who are registered but not likely to participate.

And then we've seen that that demographic actually changed the outcome of elections for the past two presidential elections. And people aren't talking about that. So I am worried, though, that we have a presidential campaign that is being ran by people who think it's not their job to change the mind of folk that need to vote for them. Yeah, I mean, John and Mondale, I mean, the reality here is we see in the press secretary who has a background, you know, leading an organization that was a sort of a democratic bastion of support and move on, you know, a later version and move on than the one that drew me in when we were all protesting the Iraq war and so on, the progressive version. But the later version, Karin-Jeampier was, you know, one of the leads of. And for her in her role as press secretary to basically say, you know, we know better than you. Like we know better than all of you voters what it's going to take for the president to be reelected. I feel like that's the messaging.

We are hearing again and again and again like, oh, yeah, that's what it is. But don't worry, we're fine. We're totally fine as is. And I appreciate your point, Mondale, that, you know, the polls are what they are. But at the same time, we have never seen in history since Jimmy Carter, a president more unpopular at this point, this close to the election with essentially a corrupted Democratic party that refuses to endorse open debate or any other alternatives, right? So they're doubling down on the nature of the problem, in my opinion. And, you know, this gets to the much larger point that, you know, I've been chomping at the bit to talk with you all about when it comes to president. Biden is we just don't know what his vision is like what's his vision for America moving

forward restore the soul well that kind of worked because of how awful and traumatizing the years with Trump was and how clearly poorly run that administration was let alone all the fascism and all of this so restore the soul isn't we don't even know what that means restore the soul so that we can you know fund and support a genocide in Gaza I mean that's one type of soul restoration You know, that's not very soulful, in my opinion. So, I mean, what's his vision? We see younger voters being totally turned off, which might mean they don't vote, right? I mean, to per your point, Mondale, we see Muslim voters in states like Georgia and Michigan swing states with significant amount of Muslim American populations being totally angry and feeling like this president is not there for them.

And of course, we see progressives also. So there's a lot more energy on the Republican side. That's why the polls are what they are. And so this president who hasn't done really active press conferences or really active, when I mean like actually sort of, you know, edgy, energetic interviews or press conferences, he's being, you know, placed in formaldehyde in the background. That's not going to work. It's just not going to work and it's clear.

And the writing's on the wall and it's eminently clear. I mean, it's like, you know, I even read a story with Cornell West involving Cornell West on Politico yesterday, saying the Cornell West even thinks, you know, is polling about in 5% nationally, that Biden won't even end up being, well, we'll drop out at some point. So like, this is not good. The Democratic Party needs to, you know, grow a couple and make, and sort of decide what its strategy is going to be to actually get all of us, most Americans are very unhappy with the status quo when it comes to this president, despite a couple of good things

domestically. Terrible things in terms of foreign policy and mostly. But, you know, they need to be building energy around their campaign and their movement. And this, it just doesn't seem like this is the candidate for these times. I mean, if nothing else because of age, let alone some quite despicable, in my opinion, policies based on my own biased way of looking at things. Yeah, look, at this point, I don't think any of us expects Joe Biden to necessarily be the greatest avatar of the message. But for Corrine Jean-Pierre, it's literally her job is to successfully spin what is coming at you. What's coming at you right now is polls that don't look great.

I feel like almost anything she could have said would have been wet better than what she did. And look, Joe Biden feels like he's sort of surrendering to some extent and we cannot be that surprise at the Democratic Party, the organized leadership of the Democratic Party is just like whatever, I guess he's the incumbent. But it's so weird that they're getting this assist from the media who collectively are all just pretending that there's no primary. Either primaries are illegal or they should be invisible. I mean, CNN every day is doing a town hall with the gaggle of weirdos on the right

that's running. They gave Vivek Ramoswamy a national platform to just make completely unfounded accusations about FBI false flags. And they did that. And they did Ron DeSantis the day before they're gonna do. Christy, you can't have the Democratic contenders for the primary on? It's almost the exact same situation, by the way, because Donald Trump is not debating. So they are stepping into the void and providing town halls.

Well, on the other side, you can do that. You can give Dean. DeFelps is a sitting politician. You can't give him a town hall. Marion Williamson, there are other candidates obviously as well. But you could easily do that. They've got the time. It's a 24 hour a day news network.

But they're giving an assist to Joe Biden and pretending that he doesn't have to run. Despite all of that, and I think the just sort of like the pretending like these other candidates don't even exist, both Marianne Williamson and Dean Phillips are polling despite are polling higher than Vivek Ramoswamy in national polls. And that speaks to how most of us are just not happy with the president. So they're doing their best to pretend like there isn't, there aren't any other candidates that even exist. Even though despite that job, they're more popular than Vivek Ramoswamy, thankfully. Yeah. Yeah, for me, I think I don't know if they're doing Biden a service. They think they may be doing them a service by curbing the other Democratic, the people on a Democratic side in the primary, even though the Democratic Party is not willing to have a primary process. But they're not really, though. If you think about it, we saw CNN and other major news network in 2015, 2016, make Donald Trump. And what I mean by make Donald Trump is Donald Trump had over a billion dollars with the free media, right? He didn't have to spend any of his budget on commercials because anything he did was covered from beginning to end, even before he was on stage when he was warming up to calm.

If he kept people coming, the camera was on Donald Trump events the entire time. So right now, that is being split between Donald Trump trials and the rest of the Republican. So I don't know if they're doing Joe Biden a comfortable one by not covering the other candidates. I think what happens is in the Democratic Party may learn this, the hard way, that red wave that didn't happen in 2020. may be the tsunami in 2024, especially if we know that if what we're sitting these polls in these so-called battleground states hold true. And I also want to say that, you know, there's no service for candidates when they're not in the media.

And this campaign has not even started to do anything. We've seen a few ads from Joe Biden's campaign. But the Republicans are already deep into campaign season. We've seen four or five debates and Donald Trump doing whatever he's doing. down their town halls on staying in. So people are being fed Republican talking points over and over and they're popping up in spaces where they shouldn't even exist. And there's no counter to it except for we know we're not going to change your heart. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wonder, John and Mandel, if there is some internal polling that these sort of establishment advisors to President

Biden are doing or I just don't know what their strategy is to actually win this election. I mean, I'm just saying that say I was like just like Kareen, who I've actually been on MSNBC with and is a very, very smart at framing things in ways that sort of seem pleasing, right? And so to actually to see them, I don't know what their strategy is because every time I've seen an interview with a senior advisor to Biden or even some of the, you know, accolates to Biden like, you know, on CNN and MSNBC and so on, all I hear them saying is it's a long way to like. the election. Well, Biden will be 11 months older when the election occurs. And that's a real issue amongst many others. And so, and the other point, you know, about media and free media that Trump got is, you know, we, it's the same thing as social media. You know, it's all about what will grab eyeballs. So someone who's insane, who says a lot of lies and is angry and is good at riling people up and is a good kind of, you know, front men, like Trump is an expert at

But we'll get eyeballs. I mean, it's it's something that our human, we as human beings, we like that edge. We like that controversy. We might like and hate it at the same time, but we often like things that are not good for us, right? I mean, I could just go to the 7-Eleven and, you know, just around the corner and get a bunch of like hot dogs and candy. And then I'll feel terrible afterward, but I'll like it while I'm eating. Yeah, let's do that after the show. Should we do it, man?

Yeah, no, I agree. And it's just, at this point, it is really weird to be going through. through what is ostensibly in a democracy supposed to be an open primary process. And the only debates we'll have had is, TYT hosted the candidates for a forum. And Gavin Newsom debated Ron DeSantis, so that's good. Isn't that weird that the guy who's not running gets to do a debate? And only then because Sean Hannity sets it up. Super weird, not nearly enough questions being asked about that.

To succeed in the future of work, forward thinkers use AI to deliver measurable results. Workday is the AI platform for HR and finance that frees you from the mundane so you can focus on more meaningful work. Workday, moving business forever forward. Okay, we have very little time, but we do have a tiny little story, a bit of a small story, palate cleanser for the hour that we've had. So why don't we get ready for this? You're about to watch a video and in this video you might have the first gut reaction that, oh, this is just a delightful holiday tap routine at the White House, but there's something far deeper, it's sinister lurking behind this. At least that's what the right wing

is saying and we'll get to their arguments, but first take a look. That's it by the way, that's it by the way, that's what the video is like, it's It's a tap group and they're doing a sort of nutcracker style tap thing as part of the White House holiday. But obviously that's not enough. Every day there has to be a new font for conspiracism. And that video is serving for that today. So let's see, we've got following Jill Biden posting that on Twitter, people saying they're like doing still frames from that routine and finding things like this. If you look at this first tweet from Brick Suit, nice Illuminati-style advent calendar you have there. Because you don't understand, dear viewer, every triangle is now sent to you by the Illuminati.

Let's see, Representative Mike Collins, this is sitting congressman, says, I thought we banned torture, because it is torture to have seen those people tap dancing. Ashley St. Clair of the Babylon B says, the White House posted this. Our White House is indistinguishable from the Hunger Games Capitol. By the way, she and her organization had no problem whatsoever, the literal billionaire sitting in there. and Melania Trump filling the White House with blood red trees. Again, I wanna jump to this though, because I just, I love this. Betty Johnson tweeted, this is what hell looks like. And I believe him.

I believe that when he conceives of hell, it's being surrounded by happy, talented black people dancing. Like seriously, they are so telling on themselves. You don't have to like it, you don't have to like everything. Some people don't like garland. Some people think you should hang strings of popcorn from the tree. People have different sorts of holidays that they want, but the need to turn it into this life and death struggle.

Everything that occurs is one of the most bizarre aspects of our political culture. Mondale, what do you make of this? I mean, listen, the people that are complaining about this are okay with Bulbork grabbing someone's penis in a movie theater, so whatever. Permish. That's all, that's kind of all really we need to say about that. I mean, it's, it's, it's crazy how black, folk doing tap dancing in the White House, in a White House that in my mind is not sufficiently

empowered the cause of black peoples, but fair enough, is called, you know, oh my God, it's diversity, equity, inclusion, according to like Ben Shapiro, who just can't get over himself. I don't know what his deal is, or called radical by others, which is, you know, sort of like, people don't realize, maybe they don't even remember, like Sammy Davis Jr., like a great tap dancer, that these things come out of cultures and traditions. And by the way, that that video was actually pretty, it grabbed my attention and kind of got me going. And the more that the White House can do stuff like that rather than leaving Biden like

kind of, you know, in the closet, I don't mean that in a literal sense, but just kind of wrapping him up so he doesn't go in the public, I think the better. Yeah. By the way, I love that like if there's if there's one thing, one slight against the holiday, then it's a war on Christmas, but like jumping into it whole hog, oh, now you're satanic, clearly. Anyway, I wanna go to just one other tweet. This is from the libs of TikTok that says they're doing a comparison.

Christmas under the Biden circus versus Christmas under Trump. The tap dancing versus Melania standing amongst, you'll notice by the way that Chaya Reichich chose not to use the blood red forest, interestingly. And it is interesting though to say, look, now it's a circus, Whereas before you had Melania, and Melania had proper respect and admiration for the holiday. And yet you might be, you might know where we're going with this. Do you remember when Melania talked about decorating the White House?

Yeah. They say I'm complicit. I'm the same like him. I support him. I don't say enough. I don't do enough. No. Where I am, I put, I'm working like a ass my ass on Christmas stop that, you know, who gives a

about. Christmas stuff and decoration, but I need to do it, right? Maybe you could have noted that when talking about who properly respects the holiday. But anyway, any final thoughts either of you before we close? The way I feel about Donald Trump's Christmas decoration when he was in the White House is just like the jacket, his wife wore to the border. I don't care. I mean, my only two senses, happy holidays to everybody, whatever you practice or don't practice.

And, you know, here's just an opportunity for us to kind of lean into our better selves and try to treat others with tolerance and compassion and love. Look at you putting positivity out into the internet, practicing what you earlier preached. It's my old Venice Beach hippie days. Well, it's been great doing the first hour with, we're rematch with you, Mondale as well. Thank you so much. We're a little bit over. There's a whole other hour to come.

Brett's going to be here, Jordan and Jank Yugar, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. I don't know. B'n't know. You know, I'm going to be. I'm going to be. You know,

I'm going to be. Thank you.