The Young Turks - Part 3: 2020 VP Debate: Kamala Harris vs Mike Pence

Episode Date: October 8, 2020

Part 3: Cenk Uygur, Benjamin Dixon, and John Iadarola discuss the 2020 Vice Presidential debate between Senator Kamala Harris and Vice President Mike Pence on The Young Turks. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to The Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. Thank God it's over. That was a hot mess. That was terrible. So it wasn't a hot mess like the Trump debate was. We're going to do all this analysis.

We're going to tell you most importantly what Kamala Harris should have said. said because it's easy to say she lost because she clearly did. And I'm curious what everybody else thought, we'll get to that summary in a second. But most importantly, I want you guys to know what she could have said to make her case instead. It's not Monday morning quarterback, we're right here, we're right after the debate, we're not looking anything up, and we're going to tell you the lines she could have used that would have obliterated him but chose not to.

Okay, so as you can tell, I'm agitated. But before I do anything else, and then obviously Jank Uger, John I'd roll and Ben Dixon with you guys. But it's also you guys that make this coverage possible. So I'm going to give shoutouts to all the wonderful people who just joined Young Turks membership on YouTube by clicking the join button below if you're watching on YouTube. It's really easy. It makes all difference. And you put on shows like this through your participation. And I'll read your comments later in the show as well. People who just signed up, Love Peace, Jacob Fergie, Portal Pottymouth. I wish you were at the debate stage, would have helped a little bit.

Anyway, Maria Navarez, Autumn Heinemann, ICT, Paul Howard, Chrissy Gasek just upgraded, Diedrock, Philip Dufrenze, Karen Holland, Delphine Page. Let me just stop there, okay. There's a lot more, and I'll get to that throughout the coverage. And I thank every single one of you that makes the young Turks and change and a loud aggressive, progressive fight and voice possible. You make that happen. And if you're not watching on YouTube, t.yt.com slash join. And when you join through our website, you get all the privileges of membership. You're going to get an extra post game today as well. And we read

your comments more often. All right. So let's get to it. So we had the vice presidential debate between Kamala Harris and Mike Pence. And if you didn't watch it and you're seeing this video later, then you might be surprised to hear me say that Mike Pence clearly won. In my opinion, we're going to talk to John and Ben about that in a second. He was, he did much better than expected. He was very calm, but insistently kept taking up more time than Kamala Harris. He talked over her. He talked over the moderator. He did it in a way that was efficient. And he would come back and say thank you to the moderator every single time. So he didn't seem rude. Meanwhile, he ate up the clock. He diverted the issues to things like fracking, which took up nearly half

the debate. He went and diverted to ISIS in a way that was effective for his side. And I could go on in all the ways that he went on the office. He went on the office on a so-called packing the court. And I can't believe Kamala Harris wasn't prepared for that. But her answer was completely, it appeared to be unprepared. He challenged her a couple of times. She didn't have an answer. That's unbelievable. What are you guys doing? How do you not prepare adequately for these debates? So, but the number one problem was that Kamala Harris sat there and played defense all night long. Every Democratic consultant that consulted her that way should be immediately fired and removed from the building. So now why do I say blame to consultances instead

of Kamala Harris? Look, Kamala Harris deserves a ton of blame herself, in my opinion, for this super subpar debate. And by the way, you will see this nowhere else. Mainstream media, I guarantee you, we're live right now. I guarantee you if you went to cable news, they're talking about, oh yes, Queen, she did amazing, oh my God, et cetera. It's just a giant propaganda machine. Anyway, maybe I'm wrong about it. Maybe they saw the same weak sauce that I saw. But for God's sake, go on the offense. The 210,000 dead Americans.

They don't even believe in science. You got a bunch of layups on climate change. You wouldn't turn around to Mike Pence to say 99% of the world scientists believe in climate change. You won't say you just avoided the question of whether you believe that climate change is real and manmade. So is, are you, do you agree with 99% of the world scientists or are you a lunatic who should be locked up in an asylum instead of the vice president of the United States? I mean, I got a hundred more examples. We'll talk about it throughout the coverage.

But, and you could think, hey, Jake, that's too extreme. I know, but my God, modulate, first of all, it isn't. You should have obliterated him. But second of all, if I'm at a 10, Kamala Harris was at a 2, can I get a 6? So can I get a little bit of like fighting you to show how embarrassingly terrible they've been in this administration? I mean, you've got a target rich environment. If I had 90 minutes to obliterate the Trump administration, I couldn't talk fast enough

to tell you all the terrible things that they've done. She barely got to it. All right, that's my take. Ben, what did you think? I think I could get it in as fast as I needed to execute on top of them, the kind of judgment that needed to come down on him. He speaks with a certain level of calm, and he speaks like a sociopath in the sense that he is the most prolific liar in the history of debating.

And it depends on what you're looking for. See, I think, Jake, you and I and John and most progressives, we actually look for truth, right? If you're looking for truth, you were extremely irritated tonight because there are so many openings where Kamala could have told the truth and devastated him. But she couldn't do it because partly because her hands are constrained by Joe Biden and because of the fact she was a co-sponsor of the Green New Deal, but now she can't, but that was a perfect opportunity for her to tell the truth. The problem for Democrats right now is that they cannot tell the truth because they don't want to tell the truth because they're not on the right side of the

issues the way they need to be. But if they're on the right side of the issues, it would be crystal clear and we could speak as fast as we needed to to devastate them in the way that Republicans needed to be devastated. John, your thoughts? Who won who lost? I was incredibly frustrating. And by the way, I'm on Twitter during the entire thing. And I'm seeing from a lot of people that a lot of people are very happy with Connoiris and I'm looking for reasons that they're giving as to why they're so satisfied with it. I think that I agree with you that she was, She was advised. We're up big. We're leading in polls massively. Just don't rock the boat. Just get through this thing. That seems to have been a strategy. I said before we started that what she needs to do to make the VP debate actually matter is do what Joe Biden couldn't do for a number of reasons, which is to viciously prosecute the worst administration in living memory. And there was none of that. I mean, you would not know. If you had just woken up and seen this debate, you've missed all the past three years, you'd have no idea. of all the various ways they failed, that we're still in the grip of this massive pandemic,

that the White House itself is a bigger hotspot than multiple entire countries. You'd have no idea about that, both because he didn't have to actually answer the Rose Garden question. And Kamalares didn't really seem to care to make a big deal out of it. On the economy, on the border, the way that they've demonized immigrants, their entire approach to the protest this year and the police and all of it on all these topics, it just didn't seem to be something that she felt she needed to make a big deal out of. And I know that there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of pressure to not seem angry or aggressive for multiple reasons. She's hit in multiple ways by that bias, but you still have to do the job. And when he's not going

to follow any of the rules, he's not going to answer any of the questions, he's going to lie about every fact, you can't just sit there and sort of go along with it. That's not good enough. It's just not good enough. Maybe some people will be turned off by the obvious lying and deception and interrupting in the same way that they were with Trump. I was surprised by how much they were turned off by that. But on her performance alone, it was not what it needed to be. And the only saving grace is that VP debates usually don't matter at all. But you do not want to fall back on that. That is not a winning move. Yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say the only other saving grace was the fly. I think the fly might actually get more coverage than anything else that was said.

So I'm really grateful for the fly. But John, thank you for bringing that up because I think Kamala did have a lot of things that are working against her inherently. Like if she did get a little bit angry, which she rightfully could have been, then of course a good percentage of Americans would have saw her as an angry black man, as an angry black woman. Now, I'm of the generation where I'm like, you need to be angry. We should be angry. And let's talk about why everyone else should be angry. But I think she might have been calculating for that as why she let him get away with so much because she's trying to not rock the boat, like you said. Yeah. So guys, look, let me agree with one thing, which is that if the debate comes out 50-50, since the Biden team's sitting

on a 15-point lead, yeah, sure, win for Biden because no one paid attention. But at the end of the day, it is the vice presidential debate, even though Mike Pence clearly won. I don't think it'll make a difference. And what the mainstream media will do next is they will make it seem like Kamala Harris did great. The K-Hive or whatever they are online, will every, no matter what she says, they're like, oh my God, it's so amazing, right? And I don't know what they're talking about it. We just, they live in a different reality too. Trump land lives in a different reality and Kamala Harris supporters. She could say hi, they'd be like, oh my God, she killed it. She's so tough and strong and wonderful. So the reality is that just, and the reason I

don't blame Kamala Harris as much in this case, ironically, is because I saw what she did that Biden in the Democratic debates. So obviously she's capable of being tough. It must have been the Biden team and the consultants who told her be super soft. Be like the softest politician in American history as Pence sits there and lies and lies and lies. And guys, whenever we analyze a debate, there's two different things. There is who won the debates in terms of what people will perceive. And then there's, of course, reality. In terms of reality, did Mike Pence win the debate? Of course not. Almost everything he said wasn't true. We'll break that down for you a little bit later as well, all right? So t.t.com slash join to get all of our coverage or hit the join button below on YouTube. And we're going to break it down in a little bit. We'll even get into the fun stuff like to fly. And the fact that it chose to stay there for 13 minutes on Pence's head. But back to important stuff. Look, when I'll just give you two examples of what she could have done to illustrate the points that, that John and Ben are making. So when Mike Pence did not answer the question of, would you take

away Roe v. Wade in Indiana after the Supreme Court let you. You come back and you say, wait a minute, wait a minute, Vice President Pence, you did not answer the question. So Roe v. Wade protects the right of women to do whatever they want with their body. Answer the question. Would you take that right away from women if you were still the governor of Indiana? And you know what the answer is? The answer is yes, okay? And I'm here to tell you that you don't get to control my body. Hell no, 70% of Americans disagree with you. And understand that if they win, they will rob you of your freedom and the most essential thing, the control of your own personhood, don't let them do that. We didn't get any of that. Okay, so that's not an issue.

How about on their incompetence and all the things that they did? She should say things repeatedly. And I don't know why the Democrats never do this. Mike Pence, we are literally ranked the worst in the world on coronavirus in cases and deaths. So tell the American people that you love to say American people, American people, American people. Well, tell them why you let them die. Why you keep talking about some irrelevant ban on China when the airlines had already shut that down anyway, but you didn't bring back mass, you didn't bring tests, you didn't do contact

tracing, you didn't do any of it. We're the worst in the world. We were worse in any third world country. That is what you have reduced us to. Did we get any of that? If you, just like John said, if all you did was watch this debate, you'd think that maybe Trump and Pence did a great job in handling coronavirus. I can't tell it was 50-50. Oh yeah, yeah, you should. It should have been 99 to 1. Yeah, can I say one quick point about coronavirus there? He kept teeing her up with every time they talk about coronavirus, he would talk about what amazing sacrifices the American people have done. No, she should have talked about the fact

that they sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives, that they could have stopped this and they didn't care to and they still don't. And Trump is no more serious about it than it was before. In fact, he seems to have solidified his view. That's not a big deal because he got over it because he got the best medical care that anyone in humanity has ever gotten. And she could have really stuck it to him as the leader of the response, at least hypothetically, but she just really didn't. And she let him just pretend that she was insulting the essential workers when she's clearly talking about their lack of leadership. That was maybe the most depressing part of the entire debate is that on this topic, the topic that you look at all

the polls, that's what people are prioritizing, she didn't appear to. I think part of the problem is because they, I don't know if they really understand the type of sociopaths they're dealing with. Mike Pence can stare you in the eye and tell you that the sky is green and the grass is blue. And he was saying with a level of warmth and seeming empathy and compassion. And I don't know if the Democrats were really ready for that, but I remember that from the Tim Kane debate. So they should have been ready for that because I knew he was going to come in and come with this soft tone, this nice demeanor. You could call his playbook because it's the same as that playbook he had four years ago. So I don't know why they weren't prepared for this, but it was almost as if she was in shock and in awe because of the extent of his lies.

But all they do is lie. And you have to be ready, Johnny on the spot or Jane on the spot, to give a comeback to those lies in a meaningful fashion that doesn't leave any ambiguity. There's a lot of people who are not really sure about how terrible of a job Donald Trump is done with coronavirus. And that should have been the easiest slam dunk of the night. All right, guys, actually, we have to take a break, right? Yeah, so what we're going to do, and by the way, I'm going to read some of your comments when we come back. Some of you disagree with us. So I'm curious about your points, and I want to hash that out, and I want to respond to it as well.

And then somebody asked, hey, but what could she have said? I love that question. So I gave you a little bit of that now. I want to give you a lot of it when we come back and how the tenor of the debate could have been completely different if she'd got on the office and what does that look like? Okay. So there's so much more that we got to cover in this and we'll talk about the highlights, the low lights, the flies, etc. And so you guys make these shows possible. TYT.com slash go. That's so important. That's how you create change and you get shows like ours that is

Obviously and clearly different than anything you'll see on cable news. If you can't tell already that we're keeping it real, I want to Kamala Harris to win that debate. I want to earn to win 100 to 0. We cannot risk democracy, and that's what's on the line here. And I wanted it so bad, but unfortunately, I don't think that's what we got. Our job is to be honest with you guys. So finally, before we take the break, let me read a couple more names of people who just signed up for membership on YouTube, which you can do by hitting the join button below the video.

Martin Lucero, Drunken Atheist, Jack Grinhaus, Delora Parish, William Mellon, Tad the Marine, KPJB 71, Guyon Anon, Luciana Turnbow, DCY Matrix, Chris Schmidt, Renee Esquel, Alessandro Baleadi, Francis Weldon, Katie Mahoney, John Yates. Let me stop there. I'll read more names after the break. And if you're not watching on YouTube, t.com slash join. Don't miss a minute to this. We'll be right back. A coverage of the vice presidential debate, Janky, or John Adderola, Ben Dixon with you guys. Let's just acknowledge right off the top here. The two things that won the debate are the fly and Ben's kids. Ben, we saw it better than you did. So I noticed your daughter coming up to you. I think the audience did too, even though your screen's a little, their screens is a little smaller than what I see. But then she started dancing in the background and I thought she was great.

Oh, I didn't see any of that. I'll rewind it and show it to her tomorrow when she wants me to get her something from Roblox or whatever she's into that day. Okay. So John's got some interesting updates for you guys in a second. And then of course we'll break down a debate even further. And I just want to read a couple of quick comments in a second. But let me first read more names of people who just became young terms on YouTube by hitting the join button below the video. Susan Lazara, Crystal Comiscar, Comaxar, Ed Proctor, Philip Dufranse, Samir Shahid, Julia, Christine, Teddy Knight, Corey Hulling, All Your Femcorp, Sakuri, Lulieu, Virginia, Reed, Martin Ler,

Martin Lucero, Yodith Arroyo, Tina Crawford. I'll stop there. And for everyone who's named I butchered, my bad, plus I feel your pain. Jank Yugar, been said wrong two million times in my life. Okay, so Colin is the person who disagreed in the member section saying, man, have I, man, I have disagreed with you on both debates so far. What did I miss? Yes, she could have hit harder, but I thought she did great. First of all, Colin, I thought Trump got killed in the first debate. John asked us to predict and I said he lost by more than 10 and it turns out he did. So I don't know where we disagreed on that debate. But in this case, I hear you brother, and that's, I like doing the show with you guys.

I like the diversity of opinions. But in my, what I get super frustrated by is, and I think I'll speak for John and Ben here too, because a lot of progressives get frustrated by this, which is that, and they said it earlier too, which is that the Democrats hardly ever make their own case. Like they're, A, constantly playing defense, and B, whatever they're challenged on any progressive position, they immediately back down. It drives me nuts. And in the long term, it does tremendous damage to the Democratic Party, not just the progressives, but to the Democratic Party and brand when you never defend your own positions. So we'll talk more about that as we go along.

But a couple of fun comments here real quick. A true world revolution wrote in on Super Chat. Jank, my mother watching her first debate, loves your reactions. Shout out to Carol and Canada. All right, Carol, thanks for watching. And thanks for liking my reactions. Here's my reaction to that. I love it.

And Chris Watts writes in on Super Chat. Thank you for the donation, brother. Appreciate it. Love you guys, but we lost tonight. So a variety of opinions, obviously, from the audience. John, what did you see on the web that's happening right now? Okay, so two interesting stats. One that doesn't really mean anything, another that I found to be surprising.

The first was these sorts of debates for those of us in politics or whatever can be opportunities to do a lot of tweeting, maybe get a few new followers. But nobody got more followers today than the new Twitter account at Mike Pence Fly that got 21,000 before it was apparently shut down by Twitter. Twitter. It was restricted and now it's basically not there anymore. And like big name people following it too. But that's just for funzies. More interesting. This is an interesting. I'm the only one on the stage was prosecuted the big banks. Anyone else hearing that? Interesting. That was actually the toughest Kamala's been in interrupting John that way. I wish she interrupted

like that. I thought there was like a fly whispering in her voice. So unofficial speaking times. Who spoke the most and how big was the gap? All right, great. I love this question. I don't know the answer. I love when John plays these guessing games. And I'm just going to quickly say, I don't know why Twitter shut the fly as a countdown. I mean, if it was like the shoe was reversed and it was the Kamala Harris's fly or Joe Biden's fly, who cares? That's a fun account. It's not like they're lying that that fly did not actually set up a Twitter account. We know. That's not the harmful part, right? Anyways, so I'm going to say, first of all, Pence outspoke Kamala Harris for sure.

But by how much do you think? Right. So I'm going to say by a minute 45, a minute and 45 seconds, which would be one answer is two minutes. So he basically got one answer more than she did if I'm right. Let me give you a little bit more information. Feel free to modify that and before Ben does. I will let you know that about 72 minutes of speaking happened, so for the purpose of figuring out how big the gap was. Do you want to modify your minute and a half? No. Okay, Ben, what do you think? Who spoke the most? Yeah, definitely pence by at least five to six minutes. Five to six

minutes. Okay, a bigger gap. Okay. Well, the actual result was Kamala Harris spoke the most and she got about three and a half minutes longer than him. She was 38, 48, he was 35, 22. She spoke more, and by several minutes actually. Jake, you said it earlier. You said that he was efficient with his time because he made it seem like he spoke forever. Wow.

And then what did Kamala say in all the time she had? Yeah, that's true. This is unofficial, by the way. Maybe the final result will be a little bit different, But that's according to Rick Klein of ABC. Yeah, okay. So, well, look, first of all, I never admit, that's a great 40th slip. I never mind admitting when I'm wrong. So figure out what I was going to say.

So I guess that part of it is what Ben talked about, that as I was saying right after the debate, Mike Pence was more efficient in the way that he sliced and diced the, Democrats with and Colin Harris would have long pauses and thank the birds and the flies before she went on and gave her answer, played tons of defense, etc. But the other parts of it is that Pence looked like he was running over time and the moderator would point it out. I'm surprised that the moderator didn't point it out more if Kamala Harris ran over time more than Pence did. She must have if those times are accurate. it. So I got to put it on the moderator a little bit because it made it seem like Pence spoke more than she did. I'm keeping it real.

Yeah, maybe. Okay. So I kept it so real. We ended that. You've got to love to say. Before, John, were those your two observations? Yeah, yeah, fly and the time. Yeah. And, John, if you can, keep an eye out as you usually do during these instant analyses for what the rest of the media reaction. Oh, I'm doing it. Yeah, because I'm curious. I think they're gonna unnaturally say Kamala Harris at least tied, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they saw the same thing we did and they're like, ooh, that was awkward, right?

So we'll see how it goes. You know, this just came in, Tanika 22 on YouTube Super Chat said AOC and Katie Porter should have prepped her. That's totally true. Yeah. AOC is great at it. Katie Porter is arguably even better. So if you said name one person to prep someone for a debate, it'd be Katie Porter.

So you know what? It's not too late. They, Biden's still theoretically has two more debates against Donald Trump. Bring Katie in. Hashtag bring Katie it, right, to prep Joe Biden against Donald Trump. So, and I want to thank our sponsors before we go on. Aspiration.com slash TYT is a place where you can keep your money and have peace of mind. They don't put your money into any investments that have fossil fuel and Mike Pence can go do whatever. It shouldn't say that in the middle of a sponsor read. But if he doesn't like the fact that they're fossil fuel free, too bad for him. They also plant trees when you sign up and when you round up on your account, aspiration.com slash TYT. Our sponsors are unmitigatedly progressive, and that's what we love about them.

Another one is too strong coffee.com slash TYT that you might have seen me drinking throughout the night. And so these guys give money to rebellion pack, which just did a super tough ad against Donald Trump, when you buy two bags or more and to give money to wolfpack, just as Democrats and TYT obviously. And it's organic, it's fair trade, and it's delicious. So all right, now let's go to what Kamala Harris should have said. Look, I think there's a, in every single answer, there's something I wanted Kamala Harris to say that she didn't say. So when we're talking about pre-existing conditions, for example, that was a perfect opening. As the moderator pointed out, the Trump administration is in court right now looking to kill off the Affordable Care Act,

including covering you if you have a pre-existing condition. If they win that case, it is an indisputable fact that if you have a pre-existing condition, you will no longer be covered by your insurance, or at least they have the option to not cover you. Your protection against being thrown out of your insurance for a pre-existing condition or not being able to sign on will be gone. It is indisputable, it is a fact they're in court arguing it right now. So when they had that conversation, come Harris never made that point?

Why didn't she say, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not only do I challenge you, Mike, to say that it, that is not your position in the court, in which case the court should know that, because apparently your lawyers have been lying to them this entire time in the court proceedings. Second of all, I challenge the media to do a fact check on this immediately, because they are actually trying to take away protection for preexisting conditions. It is a fact, and it is imperative that the American people know that before they vote. See how easy that was? I don't know how long I took 30 seconds,

45 seconds. You put them on the defense and you're right, you're indisputably right. Instead, we got a patty cakes, patty cakes answer. I don't even remember what it was, but it was super weak sauce. And no one came away thinking, wow, they're going to end. Because Pez came back. Oh, no, we love that you get covered for preexisting conditions. So he lied and he got away with it. So if you're watching the debate and you're not watching our analysis, you would have thought, oh, I guess Trump and Pence want to protect you if you have a preexisting condition, which is not true. Second part of that is when he Pence at some point in that answer said, Donald Trump and I have a plan that is going to be better than Obama care and that's going to cover your health care. Okay, what is it?

You never said what it was because you don't have one. And then if he says, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, we're going to protect pre-assisting conditions and lie about whatever the hell their plan is, which doesn't exist. Then you come back with such an easy layup. You go, wait, Vice President Pence, if you've had this secret plan, why did you never share it with us? I don't know if you know this, but you guys have been in charge for four long years. And we're in the middle of a coronavirus pandemic.

If you've got a secret healthcare plan, this would be the time to reveal it. So I challenge you to release in detail what your so-called healthcare plan is tomorrow, because you just told the American people that you have one. What is it? Guys, I got 10 more like that, but am I missing something? Or would that have been a thousand times more effective? I don't know only because I just got the same message you guys just have. And I don't know if you looked at it.

But they're releasing results from their undecided voters saying that they thought that Harris was abrasive and condescending, whereas Mike Pence was vice presidential or presidential. And I'm really taken aback by that because there were so many places where she could have chopped his rhetorical political head off, and she didn't seize upon it. And that's why I think most of us are so frustrated. We have an aversion in this country and it's to the truth, right? He is able to get away with lying at a habitual levels that I have never seen before. And that's presidential, whereas if she had done anything more than she already did, no telling

what they would have said. They would have just straight out called her an angry black man at this point. Because if what she did tonight was abrasive, then they really don't want to see what the heck we would have done. And I worked really hard to say heck. I just wanted to tell you know. Yeah, but real quick on that, Ben, I'm not sure about that. So likely you're right, and I can't, and I agree with you that I can't believe they thought she was abrasive. But my guess as to why is because that fake smile that they've taught her to have, and I don't care what any media person says or Democratic Party official and how they're going to cry.

Oh, how could you say that? Look, it's super obvious. She's a very standard politician and she has a very fake smile. So that fake smile that she has and it goes like this, and then it says, oh, please, or whatever. They taught her that so she wouldn't be super aggressive. But instead it comes off as fake and condescending. So it did the damage they were trying to avoid without any of the substance of the points you could have made if you actually were abrasive.

I think that that smile is actually something else. The smile is if I could let loose on you the way I want to let loose on you, you would not be standing right now. You would not even be sitting. And this is where we do go back to the Democratic consultants. And I think we agree on this is that the Democratic consultants did their very best to make sure that she was as docile as humanly possible. Because the smirk on her face was like, I wish I can get my hands around your rhetorical and political neck to strangle the truth out of you. And so, but I agree with that sentiment.

But again, I still think it is a place to the fact that it gives him an advantage where he can sit literally lie every single sentence and be seen as presidential, whereas she could. barely get the truth out without being seen as condescending. Yeah, and I think, like, Fox News is coming out with their poll. I'm assuming that their group is probably a little bit more conservative than they would like to pretend that it is. But yeah, she must have known that that was a fear. And supposedly the rule of these VP debates is just don't hurt the, you know, the candidate. Yeah, do no harm.

And especially do no harm if you're already winning. So, you know, biting her tongue, I guess could be part of that. Again, it's not the strategy we want to go for, we're still waiting to find out who actually won. Yeah, I think, Jank, you were talking about the plan. He never had to actually say definitively where the plan was, why the plan wasn't still there. And it's so obvious, it's been repeated ad nauseum that she could have made a joke out of it. Like for years now, every time Trump says he's got a plan, they ask when it's gonna come out, and they say in two weeks. So Mike Pence, That makes it the 21st of October.

Should I block out some time to analyze your plan? Is it coming in two weeks? What is it? You've had tears. And that way you're not being aggressive. You're being joky about it, but you're making clear that this isn't some small thing like a joke about infrastructure week or something like that. This is you are trying legislatively and judicially to destroy a plan that has

insured tens of millions of people in the midst of a pandemic. And you don't even care about the follow it enough to tell us what you're going to do to pick up the pieces. That's a big deal. And I think in a time when people are thinking about public health, more than at any other time in American history possibly, I think that that is something that would have worked. Okay. And let me go further because I promise you many examples, and I'll try to do this as quickly as I can. So on the issue of foreign policy, she talked about Russia. Look, I agree with her. I know some people do, some people don't, but that issue is dead. move on. What would have been far more effective is, we're talking about North, we're talking

about foreign policy and whether Donald Trump has been good to our allies and tough on our adversaries. He said that he fell in love with Kim Jong-un. That's a quote. He fell in love with Kim Jong-un. Not only is he a dictator and a genocidal dictator, but you guys love to talk about communist China. He's the communist dictator of North Korea. And they wrote love letters back and forth. And in that time, North Korea has built about a dozen nukes. Trump said they wouldn't build any. They built all of those while he was in love with a dictator. How much tougher is that? And then afterwards, what do people talk about? They might say, oh, well, you know what? Maybe Kamala Harris was abrasive. But I didn't know that Donald Trump said that he'd fall in

love with Kim Jong-un. Wow, you know how many Americans know that? Maybe 10%. If you follow the news, you know it. But remember, most people don't follow the news religiously. They I don't know that he said that. She never once talked about injecting bleach into your arms, she, okay, oh, it's too much. So what? You remind the American people about what a lunatic is. Now this is the most nuclear level, right? But we wish Donald Trump, you know, well in his recovery from coronavirus.

Mike, you could tell us whether he injected bleach into himself or not if that was the answer. But you know, we hope he didn't because we're actually rooting for his safety. Now that was something Donald Trump suggested that you do. That's why 210,000 people died. Okay, those are all true. And maybe, oh, Kamala Harris's popularity might go down a little bit. I don't think so. I think you would actually go up.

But conventional Democratic weak consultant thinking is, oh, my God, your numbers will go down one or two points because you were so tough. But what will stick in people's head is, oh, right. Trump, that lunatic told us to inject bleach into us. And when he got coronavirus, he didn't. He just listened to the doctors, right? Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size.

Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. Shop now at IKEA.ca. And when he said, are you say I don't agree that with Biden and Harris or they say there's implicit racism in the country. Are you implying that for all Americans? You say, no, Vice President Pence,

I don't think all Americans are racist. I think Donald Trump is racist. And then you explain why. It's not hard. I swear to God, it's not hard. I have a thousand more. Every time she made a point about something that Donald Trump did horrifically, she should have then turned around and said, Vice President Pence, why didn't you resign? When he called our veterans, suckers and losers, your kids are in the military, why didn't you resign? When you saw 50,000, 100,000, 200,000 die from coronavirus, because he wouldn't do things as simple as ordering masks and tests and contact tracing, why didn't you resign? Is there a number where you would have resigned if a million people had died, 2 million people had died, 10 million people had died?

Is there any number where you would have had shame for what you guys did, right? By the way, I have six more of those. Okay, so, but Democrats are taught weakness. Look, the only silver lining I see in it is if a progressive would ever listen to us, and honestly, Bernie Sanders didn't, he was putting soft in those debates. And I mean, what Pence just did to Kamala Harris, Pence at one point attacked her for being too conservative as a prosecutor and pointing at her DA record. That was the only thing he was actually accurate on. And Bernie wouldn't do it. Elizabeth Warren wouldn't do it. Pence went to the left

of Kamala Harris in a way that Sanders and Warren wouldn't in the debates. But if we ever get a progressive who's willing to fight in those Democratic debates, we're going to mop the floor with these establishment Democrats who were taught by their consultants to be pathetically weak. That's my honest opinion. That's honestly how Donald Trump won, right? He came through and was a wrecking ball with the Republican Party, and they were not used to that. They were all used to giving platitudes, softball answers, maybe a little, you know, a little dig here and there, but nothing as belligerent as we saw in 2016.

And by him doing that, it gave him the freedom of calling people out for things that they never imagined they would ever be held accountable for. And there's plenty of room opening on the Democratic side to do the exact same thing. I'm just going to, yeah, go ahead, John. O.C.'s practicing every day. She's going to be ready. Don't worry about it. I did want to give you quick update before I respond to your point, because I know you got six more, but I want to get in on this one. Someone in the comments on one of my tweets said, you know, Biden should sell a fly swatter. And I said, give it an hour. It didn't take an hour. They're already selling a fly swatter with truth over flies written on it on the Joe Biden campaign websites.

That was fast. Yeah, I would, the only thing I would add to what you said about coronavirus and making clear people understand the scope of it, how many people have died, but making clear the effect, the connection between Trump's irresponsibility, his lack of willingness to to follow the science and the recommendations in people's lives, I would have said what you said, you know what, best wishes for Donald Trump in his recovery, and more importantly, best wishes for the recovery of all the people that he has infected with coronavirus because he doesn't give a damn what doctors say. And he walked around without a mask, he held events

even after coming back to the White House. He's still walking around without a mask. And so to all of the people we're finding out about in the media every single day, including today they got coronavirus, best wishes for them. But even more importantly than that, all of the people, the working class Americans that have to work at the White House and have to be exposed to a deadly harm by this like megaloma, this insane guy that it doesn't seem to care at all about whether they live or die. I feel bad for them. You know, they are trapped in their jobs like so many Americans are. And unfortunately, they have a boss who doesn't care at all about them. Yeah. And you know, I want to quote comment her as well. So Blue Albany Slip is one of our members

on our website, t.yt.com slash join to become a member. And just wrote in, Why didn't she mention what happened with Merrick Garland when she was going on about the Supreme Court appointment and Abe Lincoln? Thank you. I mean, look, I didn't have that on my list, but you're absolutely right because that's the layup of layups. They talked about that for two questions. And she never once mentioned how hypocritical Republicans are. They said we should not nominate a Supreme Court justice a year before an election. And now they're saying we should confirm one a week before the election. So Mike Pence, were you lying then or are you lying now? I mean, look, it's not my position, it's your position. You said we shouldn't do it for a year.

Now you're saying we should do it within a week. So please explain the American people why you're an outrageous hypocrite. Don't tell me some anecdote about Abe Lincoln that no one knows or cares about. This is a layup. Here, I'll give you three more. You know, Oh, Pants says, oh, it's rioting and looting. Just turn around and go, look, first of all, you're trying to paint all protests as violent, when in reality, 93% of the protests had no violence at all. But you know what, whose administration it was where that violence broke out in the 7%? Your administration.

You make it sound like we're in charge. No, you're in charge. Don't blame us for your incompetence. If America's burning, it's burning on Donald Trump's watch. And we're going to end it. We're going to bring both peace and justice to America. This is not hard. This is us off the cuff with no preparation doing this right after the debate.

They train them to be weak in democratic establishment. Last two, on the issue of abortion, Mike Pence wouldn't answer the question about whether he would overturn Roe v. Wade in Indiana. She should have said, you don't get to tell me what to do with my body. If he wins, he's going to tell all women what to do with their body. And you tell me to respect your faith. And Mike, I do. I really sincerely do because I believe in the U.S. Constitution.

But you also have to respect mine. And your faith doesn't control me or my body. It's not hard, guys. I swear to you, it's not hard, let alone the most obvious one, which is what I said in the beginning of the coverage, we're the worst in the world in cases and deaths. You took us from first to worst. How much worse could it be? Literally, it can't be any worse.

So in the immortal words of Donald Trump, vote for us because what do you have to lose? We are already the worst in the world in coronavirus cases. Back on the Young Turks, vice presidential debate coverage, Jank Uger, John Iderola, Ben Dixon with you guys. Someone who likes Bernie Sanders just wrote in in the member section, Truthover flies on a fly swatter is hilarious. I don't care what anyone says. Well, you don't have to worry about what anyone says because we all agree.

I'm actually shocked at how clever that is. So good job Biden campaign. Love that. Give us more of that. Now, the only question that remains is whether, the Biden campaign is going to sell more fly swatters with truth over flies, or if shoptyt.com is going to sell more damage report shirts by Friday. That's the only question, right? Edge, the thugs at shoptyt.com have promised that if there's a hundred damage report shirts

sold by Friday, there'll be a second version of a TDR shirt. So that's, of course, John's show and Ben's on TDR often as well. And by the way, everybody check out the Benjamin Dixon show. And so it's great to have Ben with us tonight as well. All right. And then one more quick thing before we get the John's updates about the rest of the media. More names for you guys. Cory Holling, All Your Femm Corp, Sakurai lawyer via Virginia Reed. I can't tell where I left off or not. I'm going to start at the bottom. LaShawn Townsend, Joseph Ford, Anna Fernandez, Sean Good, Marcus Strata, Jason L, Eric, Penny No, Matthew Parker, Zogatis, Greywords, Theresa Dortman, G. George. All right, I'll stop there. Thank you guys, hit the join button below.

You make all the difference in the world. John, media updates, go. Okay, so what you're going to notice through these is that there was no moment like Trump and the proud boys that like stood out and immediately was the big thing. Fox News is going with civil but heated, Biden and Harris spar over Supreme Court COVID and economy in closely fought debate. Not really taking much of a stance there on Fox News. Let's see, CNN is going with Trump and coronavirus dominate the VP debate. It sort of implies that not much happen at this debate. Huff Post has COVID clash. Pence says, heck of a job Harris, greatest failure over, I don't even know what that's referring to, but you get a good view,

on their front page of his bloodshot eye that I learned tonight is actually a symptom of coronavirus in about 2 to 3% of cases. Brightbart, I'm sorry, what were you saying, Ben? No, I just said, ouch, that's terrifying. It is, it is. Brightbart says Pence Masterclass dominates VP debate. Weird that they would be the most pro Pence out of that, but not necessarily wrong. They go on to say Kamala awkward, eye rolls, laughter, smirks, scowls, ducks, dodge,

This is all the headline. Biden Harris torched over China record. Veep dunks on plagiarist Biden for ripping off coronavirus plan. And there's more, but at that point I think that your average conservative on the site has already orgasmed. So I'm not going to read all the rest of it, but that's clearly all that's supposed to do. Drudge report says debate in plexiglass, MSNBC, Pence spar over COVID response. response, really no moment stands out for any of these headlines across, you know, from the right all the way to the center out of these sites. I think NPR has, and I think this might

be the best headline out of the ones I've seen, question of election night, transition of power still unclear after VP debate. Because that should be the standout moment, I think, that Pence was asked, you know, if Trump tries to seize power illegally outside of the Constitution, What are you going to do? And he said, people like Trump, I think we're going to win. I think it's going to be okay. That's not good enough. That's not good enough at all. But I don't know if that will be the moment that people remember out of this. No, I doubt it. I wish it was too, and it should be. I agree with that. And partly because I hate to be a broken record, but that's just what happened tonight because Kamala Harris blew her part of the answer.

It was, in a sense, it was a layup. I mean, here's what you say. You say, my God, Donald Trump on five different occasions said that he might not peacefully transfer power. He keeps saying it depends. It depends on what? I mean, the supposition of the question is you have lost the election. Will you leave peacefully? That doesn't depend on anything. So instead, she talked about how Colin Powell was supporting their campaign. Yeah, perhaps the most important question there is, she listed a laundry list of Republicans who liked them. So what? I mean, God, you could have spent 20 minutes talking about, but now they're trying to speak out against mail-in voting. And the most important point she should have made, and that every Democrat should be making right now is, look, here's what's going to happen. We're going to count every vote. There's going to be no scenario where people talk about ending vote counting and wrapping things up. If we're up and there's more votes to count, we're going to count them. But no matter what, our democracy functions when we count

the votes. If you emphasize that, you put them in a situation where they're going to have to either agree ahead of time or say, no, I don't want to count all the votes. Well, that's a win-win. Instead, she talked about Colin Powell. If that part really confused me, and I think what I'm taking from this is there's two ways that you can debate relatively easily. That's if you're willing to lie nonstop, and that's if you're willing to tell the truth nonstop. But if you try to exist somewhere in between, you're going to have to calculate every single

word that you say. You don't have to calculate if you're lying, you just lie unapologetically like Mike Pence did. If you tell the truth, you can slam dunk all night long because telling the truth is revolutionary. But if you're trying to prevaricate between those two, you're going to be calculating, doing a whole lot of calculations. And I think her mind was calculating more than anything else. Yeah. And normally we look at the media reaction and we have a good amount of critique over it.

But I'm not sure I got a lot of critique there. I mean, I don't think that CNN kind of did what we thought the mainstream media. might do make it seem like Kamala Harris won the debate easily. That's my impression of the number of headlines that I've seen on CNN. And of course, Breitbart did what we thought they'd do. But out of the things that you read, John, I'm not sure I saw anything particularly outrageous. What did you think was the most wrong or right out of all those? I mean, you know, so that's the headlines. I've also been reading a few of the takes of like political reporters giving their first views. A lot of people, a lot of people seem to think

it was more civil than I really thought. I thought the entire thing effectively was Mike Pence refusing to answer the questions and talking over the moderator, just completely abusing the moderator over and over and over and over again. He seemed to understand correctly that rules don't exist in politics. There are just suggestions and norms and those in the end don't mean anything and you don't have to follow them if you don't want to. So he didn't. There were no real follow questions. But a lot of people seem to think it was fairly civil. And honestly, from what I've seen, they sort of seem to think that it was pretty even. I know that Don Jr. was on Fox News saying that he had to call 911 for a murder because a Republican can't turn down a single opportunity

to talk about violence in a political context. I still haven't seen actual polls yet. But I actually would not be shocked based on this if maybe it's a little bit closer than I think we all predict. Yeah, all right, let's do that. So let's have the usual fun guessing game here, where we guess what the American people will think about who won the debate and by how much. Wow, my first reaction is probably too harsh. I'll go first. I think that the viewers will say Pence won.

I was tempted to say 61.39, but I guess that's too bad. big a gap and too harsh. And so many people hate Donald Trump that I can't imagine that many people would support his vice president. So I'll go softer and say 55-45 win for Pence. I'm gonna say it's gonna probably split right down partisan lines. And I would just say 50-50. That's interesting. Yeah, I'll split between you two. 60-40. I think he won. I think that will be the takeaway, but I don't think it'll be super strong. That's not splitting between us. I said 55, 45. Oh, I thought you said 65. Okay.

No, I think maybe 60, 40 then. I'll stick with it, though. I do have one thing potentially as a stand-in for the actual poll. We eagerly anticipate a poll. We don't have one yet, but what we do have is Frank Lentz's focus group, if you want a little bit from that. Of course I do. In fact, when we took the break pro, my 10-year-old son asked, hey, did anyone call Donald Trump a crackhead yet? Because in the last Frank Luntz focus group from the Trump Biden debate, the number one word used to describe Donald Trump by the focus group was crackhead. Oh, wow.

That's great. My daughter did, she watched the night. Obviously, you guys saw her, I didn't see her. But she was like, why was there a goblin on stage? And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she can never really enunciated. I had to go ask my wife. She was like she was referring to Mike Pence and the fly on his head as a goblin.

Hopefully it sticks. Hopefully. Okay, so what we have from the focus group so far is actually basically what we had for the first debate, which is what are some of the terms that when prompted they would give one word the members of the focus group about the two candidates. So for Pence we have robot, presidential, even keeled, presidential, bland, regressive, professional, pathetic, calm, typical politician, which is two words technically, but comfortable, no emotion. I think all of those are pretty accurate. I think that's

fairly fair. He was acting presidential in that he seemed to be calm and self-assured and was lying a lot, all characteristics that I believe apply to most presidents. Yeah, I agree. I think those words, I'm not surprised by any of those words. Obviously, I don't agree with the presidential, but I know why people are saying that. He looks like a normal stiff politician. So, and you know, he has a great way of attacking you while seeming polite and deferential. And so give him credit for that. Yeah. Okay, so we also have words for Harris. evasive, nervous, shifting blame, caring, snarky, too rehearsed, nervous, I think that's the second nervous, the second evasive, unsteady, rigid, unpresidential. I mean, caring is good. Other than that, I think all of the words were negative. Pence certainly had a larger number of words that were positive towards him. Bear in mind, it's 13 undecided voters. For some, reason nine of them are men. So that's interesting. I'm sorry, that's complete and total

BS. The whole abrasive, it matches the, this nine men, it makes total sense. And the fact that they're undecided also makes sense because if you're undecided at this point, we need to check your polls. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to call her abrasive. If you are, if you think a smirk is abrasive, I really need to check and see how it's going on in your household, your relationship because smirks are not abrasive if you're in a healthy relationship, my friend. By the way, look, unfortunately, that focus group makes me despair of America a little bit more. It makes me worried about when we're gonna ever elect a female president. Because look, if you watch our coverage tonight, we have been pretty harsh and most of all me about Kamala Harris's performance.

And I thought it was weak. But it was not abrasive. And those words that they used, smack of sexism and misogyny. That's my opinion. I know conservatives get super touchy about that. And if you say they cry, how could you possibly say that? But my God, if that super soft performance was too abrasive because of her smirk? Oh boy, man, that means you're, you've got personal issues about women and you're projecting it on to Kamala Harris. Because that's not what we saw tonight. I wish she was 10 times more on fire. The fakeness, unfortunately, I agree with. But Pence is fake in that Lego man, you know, stoic appearance and the lies that he says, which is far more important because it's substance.

Kamala Harris is that trained political smile that I talked about earlier, et cetera. And it comes off as rehearsed, I said, and they said rehearsed. That part I think is true. And Democrats have to stop listening to consultants that teach them to be robots like that. But on all the other personal stuff that they said about Kamala Harris, it's dispiriting to see that. And I agree that I think that the fact that they still haven't made up their minds on Trump, and it's nine out of 13 our men probably had a large role in that. But that's still unfortunately, because those are the independence we have to win over.

That means we got to go over a whole generation of sexism that's ingrained in the culture, and that's just reality. But we'll get over it, we will, and we will elect a female president, and I hope real soon. Okay, so I want to let the audience come back in here a little bit. And I'm going to go to Keith Willis on Super Chat. If Democrats use your advice, progressives would gain more support in the party, and we can't have that. Those in power are fighting a two front war with progressives, the biggest threat, not Republicans. So that's a true.

For example, in the Supreme Court discussion, one of the things that Kamala Harris could have said is, look, what if we put Amy Coney Barrett on the Supreme Court, she's going to cement Citizens United. And Citizens United allows for a wholesale bribery of politicians. It is the swamp. And Mike Pence, you're in favor of the swamp, you're in favor of corruption, you're in favor of bribery that Citizens United is in favor of. Answer for yourself.

He couldn't. That's that issue is overwhelmingly popular in the country when you talk about corruption. And everybody thinks campaign contributions are bribes except people who work in Washington and people who work in media. So the problem is she can't do that, because that's the progressive position. And she doesn't believe it. And Joe Biden and her team take tons of money. So because they're not progressives, they unilaterally disarmed to Republicans.

And it's frustrating. professional baseball fan says Ben Dixon is one of the hardest working people around. This man is streaming from like 6 a.m. until late night, into the night all week. So shout out to Ben, and I agree. So and on Twitch, a whole heap of new subs there as well, Celine Diem, Torax 41, Bonnie Hos 22, social justice, New Jersey, oh, I love that title, Ravak, Gamer Princess, McHasson simply with the Echoes of the Dawn, the real sneakers. I did as many as I could. Love the Twitch audience. You could watch us on Twitch.tv slash TYT. And if you subscribe there,

if you missed the show live, you can get all of our programming by being a subscriber there as well. I want to go to breaking news because I want to get it in while we're still live. So let me do that right now. So this just got reported right before the presidential debate. I'm sorry, the vice presidential debate began. So it turns out the top White House security official, Creed Bailey, has been hospitalized and is they're saying that he is, quote, gravely ill. So the top security official inside the White House, gravely ill from coronavirus, Donald Trump famously took off his mask as he was entering the White House. We all saw it. Now, Creed Bailey, likely got sick well before that, but they had been going around brazenly massless

this whole time, most famously in that September 26th Rose Garden event that was referred to as a super spedder event during the debate by the moderator, because it is true. Now dozens of Republicans have gotten coronavirus and a lot of them were at that event, including three Republican senators, the head of the Republican Party, Donald Trump, Melania, Trump, Kelly Ann Conway, Hope Hicks, Kaylee McEnany, and now one of them, unfortunately, and this is not a political figure, so it's even worse. And that's exactly what the Secret Service was warning about. And they almost never leaked, but they were saying, these guys are playing with our lives, and it turns out now the top White House security official is gravely ill, and we hope,

and we wish him well, we hope he's all right. These folks serve under Republicans and Democrats, And the people that they are serving should also respect their lives, their health. And unfortunately in this administration, they have it one more update. Admiral Charles Ray, Vice Commandant of the Coast Guard, has also tested positive for coronavirus. And now Marine Corps Assistant Commandant General Gary Thomas has also tested positive. Almost the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff is under quarantine. A lot of the military traveled with Donald Trump. Some very senior members of the military, like the names I just read, have gotten coronavirus

and the others are quarantined to making sure we're not getting it. Donald Trump is a one-man wrecking crew, and unfortunately he has hurt some of the people closest to him, both inside the White House, inside the military, and by closest, I mean literally, physically the closest to him. And of course, for those saying that coronavirus is not a big deal, as Trump didn't die from Go tell Herman Kayne that. Yeah. Okay.

So I wanted to make sure to get that update in. Now, I, yes, John. When we have a minute we do have the first poll. Oh, absolutely. Do it right now. And at some point, I do have one little thing from the debate that I want to make sure that we talk about. But the first instant polls immediately after the VP debate are now a very important. are now available. I'm seeing them starting to spread around on CNN. This is the flash poll of CNN conducted by SSRS. And overall, asking the debate watchers, who won the debate?

I mean, I'm always shocked at how wrong I can be. Kamala Harris with 59% to Mike Pence's 38%. Wow, wow. It's conducted by SSRS. They're a professional polling organization. I don't know exactly I don't know exactly what the sample is. There's a margin of error 5.3%, which is fairly high, but that's not super close. Okay, that's great news. Yeah. I love it when we're wrong, and Democrats did better than we expected. So, and I say that on the show all the time, I hope they proved me wrong.

So maybe in this case they did. Look, I still think it's super important to get the framing right, because it's not just a short term, it's the long term, where it makes a difference that in how you frame issues and how the American people think about it. But Ben was the closest to write. He had it even in this debate. And he also said that it'll probably fall along party lines. And it turns out it did, because that crushing lead that Kamala Harris has in that one poll of the debate is about the same as the crushing lead that Biden has over Donald Trump right now in the polls nationwide. So, you know, you And so that might mean, and now here comes me with the rescue of me, it might mean that

we're right about the debate, but people looked at and still said, no, I hate passing Trump. I'm saying California Harris. Yeah, and I think that's a critical point, right? I think we are looking at it from it. There's three realities here, right? There's a reality that Donald Trump supporters exist in where everything that Mike Pence said was true. Then there's the reality that people who hate Donald Trump, no matter what happens, they understand the existential threat that he is and they just, you know, no matter what he says, it's going to be wrong. Mike Pence is the same. And then there's the rest of us are like, true is true. When is a win, loss is a loss. So I'm glad that our reality is not America's reality right now because we got to get rid of Donald Trump. So salute to everyone who ignored what we saw and what I saw and just said, no, Kamala won.

And by the way, there's another thing. I mean, so first of all, that's one poll. And again, I hope to God that it's right and it sticks and others say that too. But as we mentioned earlier, Frank Luntz, who is a Republican pollster, but it came out of the first debate saying his focus group thought Donald Trump was quote a crackhead and a bully. So he has focus groups that come out against Republicans pretty decidedly when it merits it. His focus group said that Kamala Harris did not win, but again, we broke down the bias of that group a little bit earlier. So it might be a little bit more split than we're seeing, but I hope it isn't. And the thing that I'm really hoping for is what would be amazing breakthrough is if people

know the facts well enough to say, hey, you know what? I don't know who won stylistically and who was the better debater. But Kalma Harris was telling the truth and Pence wasn't. If that's why they said Kamala Harris won the debate, well, then they'd be 100% right about that. And I would be ecstatic at that development if the American people realize it way better than the media does. Yeah.

And look, we will need more polls, because I remember we got at least two the night of the Trump debate. And there was a pretty wide range with, I think one put him up about 11 and another had a much more dominant lead than that. So we'll see. We'll see. I mean, certainly it looks much better for Kamala Harris than I would have thought. And yeah, we have to remember that there's a lot of people that they're just all in on, let's just get this bastard out of the White House. And that can cause people who are a little bit less watching politics every day to start to really forget some of their issues

that they have with certain candidates, their list of demands that they have for the candidates and just be like, we'll get to that at some point, but we just got to get them out. But there was a little bit more information from that poll, including a change in favorability before and after the debate for Harris and for Pence. And there's two interesting things here. One is that despite the fact that Frank Luntz's male-dominated focus group implied that Kamala Harris was abrasive and evasive and annoying and I don't like her, her favorability went from 56% before the debate to 63% after. She gained seven points. Mike Pence was at 41%. percent, but he ended at 41%.

Hmm, interesting. That's interesting. I really hate to say this on air, but do you think the Democratic consultants were right? Yeah, no, no, Ben, I was going to say the same thing. Look, you also have to leave over the possibility that we're not correct. No, I don't like it. Yeah. I don't like it.

If the, if other polls come back and confirm the same thing, not only a big win for Kamala Harris, but that her favorability went up. Yeah. Well, then I'll say, you know what? Maybe they have a point about being put in softering debates. And when she gave that answer about her biography and my mom came here in 73 and then we went to Wendy's afterwards, but our favorite restaurant was IHOP. And when she went through that, I'm like, you're wasting time. Hit Trump, hit Trump, hit Trump. Right? But maybe that's the stuff that makes your favorability go up and folks being comfortable with who the VP is when both of the candidates are very old. That might make a difference.

But one thing is absolutely clear. If that poll holds in any way, shape, or form, great. Then this night is wonderfully irrelevant. Because the Biden team's sitting on a 10 to 15 point lead, if all it was was a draw, it'd be a huge win for the Biden team. Because they're not the ones who have to make up 10 points. Pence and Trump have to make up 10 to literally in one poll 16 points. So, and if it's a slight win for Kamala Harris, or actually that's a big win, by the way, if that poll holds, then that's great news. And that puts the Trump team even further behind. Two more interesting numbers though. In this one, again, we don't know if this will end up not being as representative

as some other poll. We'll see. We have to see what comes out. But you might remember that from that Franklin's focus group, a lot of it was a Pence so presidential, so ready to step in. So they asked the people who watched it, is this person qualified to be president if necessary? For Kamala Harris, it was yes, 63%, no 36%. So about two thirds to one third say that, yes, she's ready to be president.

For Mike Pence, it was 6534. He's got the advantage by a couple of points. But not representative of everybody's, oh my God, so presidential. Did you see how he handled that fly? So presidential. And yet that's what the focus group was saying. Now, I'm still waiting for more polls. We do have one.

It was tweeted out by Charlie Kirk, who says 69% of those who watch believe Mike Pence won the debate, just 29% for Kamala Harris. Retweet. He doesn't actually cite what poll that is. I'm thinking maybe that's one of Donald Trump's 96% approval rating polls where it's just like, whatever, just put whatever you want. I don't know. I think there's some chance that he polled himself. And he's like, I gotta be honest. I think Kamala Harris was right 29% of the time. He looks like the type. No, they're so comical on the right wing side. Half the time they'll put out a poll like 69-29. They won't tell you it's like Breitbart readers. In which case, Kamala Harris said amazing, right? And half the time, they'll just say 69-29. I won't tell you

what it is at all because it isn't even true. So they're a hilarious joke. Yeah, I'm still looking for more. I'll let you know if I come across something. Okay, we're about to run out of time. And I promise you guys at least one thing. And it And we've got a post game that's coming up. Everybody, you can watch that if they become members. You could hit the join button below if you're watching on YouTube. Or you can go to t.yt.com slash join and become a member and get all of our coverage anytime you want extra videos, extra post games like the one we're about to do.

So, but you know what, in fact, let me save why. The one thing that Trump and Pence did well, in my opinion. And forget stylistically, I'm talking about substance. I think one thing they did well, we'll save it for the posting for members. But I wanted to make another point about how Pence did a good job of shifting who's on defense. Because Trump and Pence have been an absolute disaster and he should have been playing defense all night long. But instead, he kept going on the offense, which I've told you, I think in the last, after the last debate, I did Facebook live on this and explained, I had a personal story where I was going to debate someone in the, for like a college debate situation. And I had one hole in my argument.

That's because I was a Republican back then. It probably had ten holes. But anyway, I thought I had one hole in the argument, and I was wondering how I could avoid it. And I realize at the end, right before the debate began, you avoid it by constantly going on the offense so the other person never gets to. It worked completely, right? And so in this case, what Penn said was he attacked on a couple of fronts. One was fracking. I mean, my God, half the debate was about fracking. Where did that come from? Because he wanted to put her on the defense on a rare issue, he thinks the polling is on their sign. And I don't know if he's right about

about the polling, but that's what he thinks. That's why he brought it up three, four, five times. And then on the second one was expanding the court, which he called court packing, which a lot of the media calls a court packing. And he put her on the defense saying, are you going to answer it, or are you not going to answer it? And that is part of the reason why the focus groups came up with the word evasive, because she wouldn't answer it. And to me, I can't believe that they didn't prepare enough on that. But the more important point is, and this is how Republicans do well, overall and in the long run, they go on the offense. And so the entire debate, we're talking about what Kamala Harris and Joe Biden are doing wrong as opposed to the biggest disaster

we've ever seen in a presidential administration, which is what we should have talked 90 minutes about. All right. So we got a minute left. That's why. Can I really fast? Can I say one of the things I want to talk about in our 30 minutes is one evasive. non-answer that I think might actually be very good news. Oh, okay. Love the teases. Robert, these are new members on YouTube, Robert Bassmore, Don Jones, Alec, Dar, Steven Zimmerman, Maggie Tanchuk, Nichelle, Louis, Angel, McDonnell, Jonathan Afanador, Fabrioso Negretti, Lisa Mitchell, Jennifer Martin, Ahmed Ahmed Dahmer-O-O-O-8-3, Ryan Ladowski. If I didn't get to you, I love you. And sorry, we didn't get to your names.

But you guys make all the difference. We do this show together. And if you can go to t-y-t.com slash go, the stronger we are, the stronger the progressive message is. And the more likely we are to get change. T-y-T.com slash go. It is super important. And you made that change possible. We're going to the post game right now. We'll see you there. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks, support our work, listen ad-free, access members-only bonus content, and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.