The Young Turks - Senator Bernie Sanders on The Young Turks

Episode Date: October 16, 2020

Senator Bernie Sanders joins Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian to discuss: The Fight for COVID Relief, If Trump Refuses To Leave, and How We’ll Hold Joe Biden Accountable. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to The Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. Senator Bernie Sanders, welcome back to the Young Turks. Great to be with you, and it's wonderful to see you and Anna together. Thank you, Senator. It's good to see all of us back together again. So Senator Sanders, let me get started because obviously we've got weighty issues here less than three weeks before the

and with coronavirus raging. So in fact, the most pressing issue is the bill that is now being considered the stimulus bill. Some disagreements obviously in Washington about not only what should be in the bill, but Nancy Pelosi's stance to negotiate for a better deal and not yet sign the deal that some folks in Washington are pushing. What's your take on that? Do you think she should hold the line and have you advice?

from the Senate side on what you think is the right way to go? Well, Chang, as you know, Nancy and Schumer have already made major, major concessions. They have gotten virtually nothing from the Republicans. At a time when millions of people have lost their jobs, people are worried about being evicted, people are having trouble feeding their kids, we need to make sure that every unemployed worker continues to receive that 600,000 people who are Every unemployed worker continues to receive that $600 check as a supplement to his or her unemployment. People need that $1,200 check per month.

People need health care. We need to adequately fund cities and states who are in the process of laying off hundreds of thousands of workers. So the devil is in the details, but we need a very robust package to protect working people today who are really struggling. So Senator Sanders, you're absolutely right about the devil being in the details. So given what you just stated, Trump is not there yet, McConnell's not anywhere near there yet in terms of the numbers that you just gave. So does that mean that you think Pelosi should hold the line, even if it means going past the election to try to get a better deal?

Well, check. One of the problems that Pelosi has is you're dealing with an erratic and irrational president who says something different every single day, he wanted to go small, he wanted to go big, he wanted to go not at all. But here is a point that is not discussed very much. The Republican caucus has approximately 20 members in the Senate who really don't want to do anything. So McConnell's problem is, is that if he went big, which he, I think, is not inclined to do, it would become a Democratic bill because almost half of his caucus really wanted to do nothing. But the bottom line is we have got to be as strong as we can in standing up for working

families who are probably today, the working class in America, probably in worse shape than any time since the Great Depression. And in the midst of all of that, obviously in the next three weeks, we have to do everything that we can to defeat the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country. And then after Biden is elected, we have to regroup and continue. our fight for a progressive agenda that works for working families. Senator Sanders, one more thing about the bill for me. Do you know why McConnell has a position that he has? I understand Pelosi holding out because the Democrats have a tremendous amount of leverage

at this point and they could really demand what they want in the bill. Donald Trump has a tremendous incentive to pass the bill right before the election. But the Republican senators are in a world of trouble, according to the polling. So why in the world isn't McConnell agreeing to stimulus? Because he would look like a fool if 20 of his own members voted against them. And then it becomes a democratic bill. That's the simple truth. He has a number of right-wing folks who believe they have already done too much for the working families of this country.

They're busy thinking about how they can give more tax breaks to the rich, how they can end the Affordable Care Act, throw 20 million people off of health care, how they can ignore climate change, how they can refuse to raise the minimum wage. They are not thinking about how they can help working families. I have one question on Trump's version of the stimulus plan. And one thing that has been frustrating as someone in the media was just trying to get some straight answers on what the spending is actually going towards. I mean, the media keeps talking about, well, Pelosi wants $2.2 trillion, and Trump is offering

$1.8 trillion, close enough. But there is concern that Trump could use that appropriated money. Let's say in an incredible situation where McConnell actually does successfully pass Trump's version, there's some concern that that money could be used as Trump's personal slush fund. Do you have any details on that? Well, and I think your point is well taken. You know, people say 2.2, 1.8, what's the difference? The difference is in fact in the details.

And I think one of the things that Trump wants, and I have zero. Eurodoubt would use is a slush fund to suddenly go out to all of the battleground states already is using a lot of money in agriculture to be spending money on farmers around the country whose votes he desperately needs. So you're right, as I understand it, although it's always very unclear when you deal with Trump, because I'm not sure that he knows what he is talking about, so it's hard to know what the White House is referring to. Do you feel that the Democratic Party has done a good job in messaging how Republicans in Congress have basically fought tooth and nail against providing any real economic

relief to ordinary Americans? Probably we could have done a better job. The difficulty that I think any senator or congressperson has right now is every day, there's so much that is going on, you know, whether it is covert, whether it's some other crazy thing that Trump says, it's hard to get the word out. But I do want, apropos your question, to just make a simple point. And that is five months ago, that's a long time. Five months ago, the House of Representatives passed the Heroes Act. It's over $3 trillion. I have some disagreements with that bill, but there is no question but that it is a very strong piece of legislation.

And all that Mitch McConnell would have had to do, five months ago was say, thank you, Nancy, we're gonna discuss it, we're gonna debate it here, let's pass something, he chose to do nothing. And I think what is not clear to the American people is that we have in the Senate, the most do-nothing Senate in the modern history of this country. They do nothing but pass nominations for right-wing judges. We do virtually nothing, nothing on the economy, nothing on COVID, nothing on climate change, nothing on the needs of working families. So Senator Sanders, clearly Joe Biden is going in the right direction on some of these issues, especially regarding COVID.

He says he's going to put together a pandemic testing board, something that should have been done a long time ago. And he says, I'm kind of in a position that FDR was. That's a direct quote from him. I'm sure that's music to your ears. If you think about it, what in fact FDR did was not ideological, it was completely practical, he said, and he wants to put in a national supply chain commander. So is there anything in his plans that you say that you would encourage him to do more about or looking at these plans for what he would do as soon as he got in? Are you satisfied that that's completely the right direction?

Well, I think, you know, I have talked to Joe on a number of occasions, and he refers to FDR. And I think he perceives that he is coming into office in a moment not radically dissimilar to when Roosevelt came into office in 1933. And that is, Roosevelt came in the midst of a terrible depression. Biden will come into office in the midst of a pandemic and the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, not to mention climate change and systemic racism and all of the other major issues that we are dealing with. But I hope and believe that whether it's COVID or those other issues, that Biden understands

that the American people now desperately need a government which works for them and not just the people on top. Because the crises that we face are so profound, so profound. We've got to raise that minimum wage to a living wage. We need equal pay for equal work. We need to create millions of good paying jobs. by rebuilding our infrastructure and combating climate change and putting people to work, retrofitting homes and moving to wind and to solar, and transportation, agriculture, etc., etc.

So the task in front of Biden, should he win the presidency, is enormous. I believe that he does understand that in this moment, there's an unprecedented moment in American history, he's going to have to be bold. You know, understandably, people are concerned that Trump would not engage in a peaceful transition of power should he lose the general election. What do you believe Democrats should do if he refuses a peaceful transition of power? Well, I gave a speech on that about a month ago, and we are working on this very, very hard. And, you know, we are sitting here in the year 2020 talking about something that nobody has ever had to talk about in American history.

What we're talking about is a president of the United States who when asked if he will leave office peaceably, if he loses, he doesn't say yes. He doesn't say yes. So what we have got to do is prepare for all contingencies. And I just want to make a few points on that issue if I can, Anna. And that is I want everybody to understand that when Trump talks about the only way that I can lose this election is if it's He is absolutely lying because even the strongest Republican experts, the people who know the most people like Benjamin Ginsburg, a longtime Republican lawyer who works on this issue, has acknowledged quite correctly that there is virtually no voter fraud in the United States of America. So when you hear Trump talking about massive voter fraud, he is lying. Second of all, Sadly, in a number of states, what Republicans have done is made it very difficult for the vote to be counted on election night. Pennsylvania is maybe the major example. The truth is what a number of studies have told us is Democrats are much more likely to vote by mail-in ballots than will Republicans are more likely to walk in and vote on election day.

So what does that mean? It means that if you are in Pennsylvania and you're sitting on a pile of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of envelopes, of mail-in ballots that have not yet been open, and most of those may be Democratic ballots, you know what, on election night at 9 o'clock in the evening, it may well be that Trump is ahead in Pennsylvania. But that may not be the case the next day. So what we believe and will fight for, every vote must be. counted. Every vote must be counted. And we are going to work as hard as we can to make sure that happens. We are talking to governors all over this country to prevent voter intimidation. You know, there have been some stories about people coming out with AR 15s, you know, semi-automatic rifles trying to intimidate people going in to vote. Governors cannot allow that to happen. Voter intimidation is a crime. We cannot allow that to happen. You know, So there's a lot that has to be done.

The right wing uses hyperbole all the time. So Donald Trump says that Joe Biden is a socialist, and he even called Kamala Harris a communist. It's preposterous. But on the other hand, Donald Trump has, in fact, five different times not answered whether he would do a peaceful transfer of power. He today called Gretchen Whitmer, who the militia threatened to kidnap and, murder, the governor of Michigan. He called her a dictator, which is not a subtle code word for a tyrant, and that is a dog whistle to the militia. Hey, she's still a problem. He's an incredibly dangerous person who has called for violence from his supporters on a number of occasions,

and we're worried, might not believe in democracy and might try to hold on a power even if he loses. So is it fair to call him a fascist and to ask other Republicans, including Republicans, I mean, we had Diane Feinstein hugging Lindsey Graham today. I'd want to do the opposite and ask Lindsey Graham, you're running against Jamie Harrison and Democrat. That's a perfectly normal, rational human being. But do you believe in the fascist inclinations of Donald Trump? Is that a fair question? I'm not going to throw out labels. We've got two and a half weeks to go in an election. Clearly, this is an authoritarian type person who does not believe in the rule of law.

I mean, now we take it for granted that a president of the United States a week ago who held a political rally in the White House. You know what? That's against the law. This is a guy who does not believe in the separation of powers, does not believe in the Constitution lies every single day. And what I have said over and over again, I don't care what your political views are out. conservative, you're a moderate, you're progressive, that's great. But you've got to get rid of this guy as president of the United States because he is undermining American democracy and is insulting the men and women over the years who have put their lives on the line to defend our constitution and our democracy. That's what we have to focus on in the next two and a half weeks, defeating Donald Trump.

If Biden does win, he's going to push for a public option. Obviously, you're in favor of Medicare for all. Where does that leave you? Do you support him in pushing forward the public option? Is there a progressive pushback and fight for Medicare for all in a Biden administration? Well, I will tell you where it leaves me. Everything being equal, if the Democrats gain control over the Senate, I want to remind all of the viewers, of course the presidential election is enormously important. Do not forget about the Senate. Democrats stand a reasonable time. chance of gaining control of the Senate. If they do, Chank, I will be the chairman of the Subcommittee on Health. And let me tell my good friends in the health care industry and the

pharmaceutical industry. But if I get that position, and I believe I will, your world is going to change. So of course, we're going to continue the push for Medicare for All. Now, the bill that I presented was a four-year transition. I didn't go to Medicare for All in one day, because I don't think you can do that. In the first year, Biden, you know, Biden now wants to see the eligibility age for Medicare go from 65 down to 60. There hasn't been enough discussion on that, that's important. The first year of my bill, four year transition, has it go down to 55.

So in the first year, what I would like to see is that lower that age to 55 and cover all of the kids in America on year one. That is something I certainly will be pushing on. I will also be pushing to make absolutely clear that we end the outrageous of collusion and price fixing of the pharmaceutical industry and that the people of our country do not pay higher prices for prescription drugs than the people of any other country on earth. Also on that committee, which I will be number two, the Health Education Labor Committee, pension committee, we will pass a $15 an hour minimum wage. And what I'm working on, Chank and Anna, right now is what I call a 100-day proposal. I want Democrats to come out of that gate very, very rapidly.

It is not business as usual. We count. We don't have six months to study an issue. We know what we have to do for the American people in education, in climate change, in the economy, in health care. let's do it. Let us try to restore the confidence of the American people in the political process. Let them know that there are some of us who are fighting for the working class of this country and we are going to deliver. Final question for you related to Joe Biden. There is a little bit of a divide among progressive voters as to whether they begin pressuring Joe Biden to move further to the left

now or if they should wait until the election happens and he gets elected. Already there are some articles being written about potential cabinet picks, including for his treasury secretary. The name Lael Bernard came up, and she's actually a governor with the Federal Reserve. And her history isn't so great for progressives who are concerned about the fossil fuel companies. She was very much in favor of the Federal Reserve buying the corporate debt of these fossil fuel companies, including companies involved in the Keystone Exxel pipeline. And so I wanted to get your thoughts on that because already, I mean, you see names like that and you start to get a little worked up and you want to start applying pressure.

Do you believe that's the right way to go? Or would you argue that Progressive should hold their fire until after he gets elected? This is what I think. I think we have got to do everything. You know, you have all of two and a half weeks. That's not a long time. Let us do everything that we can to make sure that everybody we know comes out to vote. Chank, you mentioned that the polls look good, they do.

They look good for Hillary Clinton as well. So anyone who thinks that Biden is a shoe and is dead wrong, because it's going to be a tough race, and we've got to do everything we can in the next two and a half weeks to win it. Day after Biden wins, let us rally the American people, working class people, people of color, young people, all people who believe in justice around a progressive agenda. And remember, you know, Biden campaigns on his proposals, that's fine. But it is the United States Congress that makes the laws of this country. And what we have got to do after the election, after the election, is to make sure that we put as

much pressure as we can on the elected officials in the House and the Senate to go forward with an agenda that has the guts to stand up to the ruling elite that deals with income and wealth inequality, and that finally has a government that works for all of us and not just the few. So to answer your question, I would hold my fire for the next two and a half weeks, and after that, let's rally the American people around the progressive agenda. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for joining us on the Young Turks, who really appreciate it. Well, thank you for having you. Keep up the great work, guys. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks. Support our work, listen ad-free, access members, only bonus content, and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.