The Young Turks - The Young Turks 01.16.18: Jim Acosta, Net Neutrality, Sessions Marijuana, and Aziz Ansari

Episode Date: January 17, 2018

A portion of our Young Turks Main Show from January 16th, 2018. For more go to http://www.tytnetwork.com/join. Hour 1:  Cenk presents. People who will be talking to the House Intel Commission. Mueller subpoena’s Bannon. Trump’s doctor says he could live to 200. Joe Scarborough attacks Democrats that capitulate to Trump. Continued “shithole” drama. Lots of foggy recollections. Trump’s Homeland Security Chief isn’t sure if Norway is predominantly white. Jim Acosta asks Trump what kinds of immigrants he does want in the US. Democrats may reverse net neutrality. Gerrymandering in Pennsylvania. Hour 2:  Cenk and Ana present. 30 year resident of USA deported. Congress fights Jeff Sessions to protect states that legalized marijuana. Four police shot while responding to domestic disturbance call. Aziz Ansari accusations, and a nuanced discussion. HLN host blasts Aziz accuser. California couple arrested for torturing 13 kids. Birth control app used to prevent pregnancy, but some people didn’t get that result. Fox News guest says revealing Trump’s racism undermines our trust in him. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to The Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. Thank you for watching or listening to this free podcast of the Young Turks. We want to make sure that you get some portion of the show every day. But if you want the full show, which is actually five segments, come become a member and support independent media as well. TYT network.com slash join.

Meanwhile, enjoy the free podcast. All right, back on a young Turks. I'm going to read a couple tweets for you guys. Skepticus Rex says, as an artist, if I was commissioned to create a grotesque, grotesque slug alien wearing human skin suit to hide among us, then is pretty much what I would draw. But you know what? I'm going to be fair and disagree. Because it'd be too obvious. Wouldn't you, like, if you're an alien hiding, wouldn't you want to take a non?

alien look to you? Maybe you look good or something. Anyway, I live in a glass house, so I'm going to move on. Rian Chambers says, I guess TYT Live had another joke that wasn't going to land because they allowed Jenk to tell another dad joke. Ladies and gentlemen, the joke has landed. Look, the hopefulest thing doesn't even make any sense. Okay, so that one didn't even land.

The loose ban, and yeah, that one landed. Okay, that's my own assessment. Bitchie Gay Guy says, wait, Trump's blood pressure is better than mine. I'm a 35-year-old granola eating vegan. What the fuck? Well, that's, that is genetics partly. It's partly what you do, what you eat, how much you exercise. In fact, my doctor always tells me what the fuck.

He's like, you look like a mess. There's no reason in the world why you should be healthy, but apparently you are. And finally, Carl says, I would not doubt that Bannon has already started talks for a book at this point. That's a great point by Carl, because I don't know if he's going to turn evidence against Trump with Mueller or the House Intelligence Committee, but he's got no way to make money left, or more importantly, I think he still has a Seinfeld money, and Goldman Sachs money. But he doesn't really have a way to make any impact anymore other than a book. So it would be shocking if he didn't do one.

Okay, so, and that one ought to be a doozy. So let's go forward. I got some more stories for you guys. We need to talk about a relatively new show called Un-Fitting the Republic. or UNFTR. As a Young Turks fan, you already know that the government, the media, and corporations are constantly peddling lies that serve the interests of the rich and powerful. But now there's a podcast dedicated to unraveling those lies, debunking the conventional wisdom. In each episode of Un-B-The-Republic or UNFTR, the host delves into a different historical episode or topic that's

generally misunderstood or purposely obfuscated by the so-called powers that be. featuring in-depth research, razor-sharp commentary, and just the right amount of vulgarity, the UNFTR podcast takes a sledgehammer to what you thought you knew about some of the nation's most sacred historical cows. But don't just take my word for it. The New York Times described UNFTR as consistently compelling and educational, aiming to challenge conventional wisdom and upend the historical narratives that were taught in school. For as the great philosopher Yoda once put it,

You must not learn what you have learned. And that's true whether you're in Jedi training or you're uprooting and exposing all the propaganda and disinformation you've been fed over the course of your lifetime. So search for UNFDR in your podcast app today and get ready to get informed, angered, and entertained all at the same time. The Secretary of Department of Homeland Security testified in front of Congress, and boy, she has some interesting and amusing excuses for Donald Trump's behavior. Her name is Kristen Nielsen, and she was questioned by a lot of the senators, many of whom were frustrated. Let's start with Dick Durbin, who was in the infamous meeting where Donald Trump made the shithole comments. And Durbin is the one who actually called him out on it in the first place, where the president called Haiti, some Latin America.

countries in all of the African countries shitholes. So here's the exchange back and forth. What do you remember the president's saying about immigration from African countries to the United States? What I heard him saying was that he'd like to move away from a country-based quota system to a merit-based system. So it shouldn't matter where you're from. It should matter what you can contribute to the United States. How did he characterize those countries in Africa? I don't specifically remember a categorization of countries in Africa. I think what he was saying is, as far as best I could tell, and as you know, there were about a dozen people in the room, there were a lot of cross conversations, there was a lot of rough talk

by a lot of people in the room. But what I understood him to be saying is let's move away from the countries and let's look at the individual and make sure that those we bring here can contribute to our society. What I understood him to be saying, not what he said, what I understand, understood him to be saying is, let's look away from the countries and look at the individuals. But he didn't actually say that at all. In fact, he said the opposite. He said, why are we letting these countries in, which he described as shithole countries? And he said about the Haitians, take them out. He said, why don't we let people from Norway? But that's not person based,

and that's not merit basis, she said. That's country based. I like Norwegians. I don't like these other countries. Let's let those guys in. Fairly clear. She said, I don't specifically. I specifically remember what he said when he was talking his rough talk. Now you know the excuse they're using, right? Well, the president didn't necessarily say shithole, so that's why it's fake news. He might have just said shit house. Oh, my God. Why didn't you say that from the beginning?

Well, that sounds lovely. All right, more of this nonsense. Do you remember the president saying expressly, I want more Europeans? Why can't we have more immigrants from Norway? I do remember what he, I do remember him asking about the concept of underrepresented countries as a fix. This was in the conversation about removing the diversity lottery and how we could reallocate that. And I do remember him asking if we do that and we then assign those two countries that are unrepresented, aren't we just continuing non-merit-based immigration?

So the last part is what gets under my skin. So underrepresented countries, well, look, part of the reason that, and Norway does have far greater wealth than, for example, Haiti. That's of course true, right? But part of the reason we don't have as much immigrants coming in from Norway is because they have much greater wealth. They're doing fine in Norway. In fact, they've got universal health care.

They've got a much more progressive government. They're generally way happier than here. That's based on actual studies. And northern European countries are generally pretty happy. And also overall, astoundingly liberal. So they don't want to come here to this draconian system where we have, you know, free market run amok with no regulations, et cetera, and great wealth disparity. That's part of the reason why we're not as happy as Northern Europe.

But so it's when the Irish came over to America, they didn't come over because they're like, hey, you know what, everything's going great in Ireland. We're all really, really rich. You guys want to leave our mansions and go over to America? No, they had the great potato famine. They were dying, and they had to go look for a new hope. That's what we were America, and that's what we have been for immigrants. And if we had stopped them and said, okay, we want a merit-based system.

We only want merit based on what? The Irish that came in were amazing for America. The Italians that came in that were dirt poor, were amazing for America. The Jews and blacks and Latinos and all these different races that have come in have been terrific for America and have built America. A lot of them with their bare hands. And they didn't come because they were already rich. What other merit will you use?

Are you going to make them take the SATs? What are we doing here? Take an IQ test? We've never done that. Give us your huddled masses. They're coming for a dream and they're hungry. That's why they made America great. Because they were hungry to do better in the case of the Irish.

Literally, there was a famine going on. So this whole idea of, oh, let's do a merit-based system. It just means let's let rich white people in. It's gross. That's not what America is. We want people who are driven to find a better life and to live the American dream. Okay, so one more from her. You said on Fox News that the president used strong language.

What was that strong language? Let's see, strong language there was, apologies. I don't remember specific word. What I was struck with, frankly, as I'm sure you were as well, was just the general profanity that was used in the room by almost everyone. Did you hear me use profanity? No, sir, neither did I. Do you hear Senator Graham use profanity? I did hear tough language from Senator Graham, yes, sir.

What did he say? He used tough language. He was impassioned. I think he was feeling very strongly about the issue, as was everyone in the room. And to underscore a point, I think he was using some strong language. Do you recall that the strong language he used repeated exactly what the president had said prior to that? I remember specific cuss words being used by a variety of members. Just say it, just say him.

We all know what he said. What does rough talk mean? So again, what's the difference between shithole and shithouse? It doesn't matter. Rough talk isn't like, boy, I am vexed. It's not, I rough talk him and run them off. Old school TYT reference. It's yeet, geet.

Okay, so, no, it's, that means curse words. Curse words like shithole. Just say, I thought that conservatives were real tough guys. They're like, oh, we're going to call it like it is. We like Donald Trump because he tells like it is. He just says it, right? All of a sudden, I guess he's scared. I guess that's your big, bold leader in all of his allies.

They're scared to us. They admit that it was rough talk. So you know that he was cursing, you know he was denigrating there, and you know he was putting them down. so I guess they're just too scared to say the actual words. What happened? I thought you guys were tough guys. No. He wants credit from his base, but he doesn't want to alienate everybody else. Oh, that sounds like a standard politician. Hmm, interesting.

Okay, but I'm not done with Nielsen yet, because I am greatly amused by her and others. Okay, so here we go. So, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Kristen Nielsen, is testifying in front of the Senate. Pat Leahy, Senator Leahy from Vermont is going to ask her a very, very normal, standard questions. She's going to give an amusing answer. Let's watch. Norway is a predominantly white country, isn't it? I actually do not know that, sir, but I imagine that is the case.

I got news for you. Yeah, there. In fact, I'll show you the numbers. We bothered to look them up. Norway is 83.2% Norwegian, otherwise known as white, 8.3% other European, which is otherwise known as largely white, 8.5% other. So that's about 91% white. And by the way, the other might also have plenty of white countries as well. But of course, Norway's white, of course. What do you think Norway is? But they can't help themselves. They're greasy politicians. They have to lie and

bend the truth and said, I don't know the Norway's white. I haven't looked into it. By the way, you're working in Homeland Security. Maybe you should look into it. Is that kind of weird? Aren't we doing extreme betting, or do we not do extreme betting of white countries? So that's why you never looked into it. Okay. Anyway, now we're going to go to Republican Senator Joney Ernst. Okay, so she's in Iowa. By the way, it's not like the room is full of minorities, as you'll see, okay? She makes another excuse about Norway, and look at the reaction. Ernst telling the crowd, other world leaders support Trump.

He is standing up for a lot of the countries that where we have seen. Name a few. Could you name of you? Yeah, you bet Norway is one out there. No, well, okay, how many of you think? You know, you laugh, but folks, who borders Norway? Russia. And I don't know what that means.

That's a group of good old American white folks from Iowa laughing their ass off at their senator, Joni Ernst. And she's like, I mean, he's got, somebody had to stick up for Norway. Somebody had to do it. Poor Norway. They're always getting abused. Norway's doing perfectly fine. They didn't need Trump to stand up for them.

And by the way, they are far, far more progressive than we are and are probably annoyed that Trump is claiming them as, as among his folk, because they're not his folk politically at all. The only reason why he mentioned Norway is because, and I'll apparently have to fill in the secretary here, Secretary Nielsen, because they are largely white. That is true. Okay. All right. Fun for everybody.

Now, next story. Jim Acosta is at CNN, and we've got this whole controversy about Donald Trump calling Haiti in African countries shitholes, and then saying we need to have more people in from Norway. Now, it's a fair question as to why he might have picked out Norway as his example of the good countries, especially given that the president largely doesn't agree with Norwegian politics, which are far more liberal. So Acosta wanted to address that question at the White House, and for his efforts, he was shown the door. Let's watch.

Mr. President, did you say that you want more people to come in from Norway? Did you say that you wanted more people to come in from Norway? Is that true, Ms. President? I want him to come in from everywhere. Everywhere. Thank you very much, everybody. Just Caucasian or white countries, sir? Or do you want people to come in from other parts of the world where there are people of color? Jim, thank you.

And not sure if you can hear the end of that there, Wolf, but as I tried to ask whether he wanted more people to come in just from white or Caucasian countries, he said out. He pointed at me and said out as in get out of the Oval Office. I don't know if you saw it, you could rewind. Acosta, Trump goes out, and Acosta goes, I didn't see that coming, getting kicked out of the White House for asking your question. And just for a second, we're going to go on with how Ocasa got kicked out. And this is not how a democracy that believes in the First Amendment and freedom of the press is supposed to act. But also on the substance of the question, I want people from everywhere, except Haiti, all of Africa, El Salvador, and I can go on and on. The countries that

you called shitholes. You said, about Haiti, you said, let's get them out. About Nigeria, in an earlier conversation, not even this one, he had said, why would we let them in? If they come here, they'll stay. They won't want to go back to their huts in Africa. I am not convinced that you want people from everywhere. And by the way, if you do, I got good news for you. You're the president. You can make that happen tomorrow. Strick a deal with the Democrats, have a new policy. Oh, right, you don't want people from everywhere. You just want them from countries like Norway. Yeah, I wonder why. Okay, so Acosta's going to give you more details here. Thank you very much, everybody. Just Caucasian or white countries, sir, or do you want people to come in from other parts of the world where there are people of color?

Jim, thank you. Okay, so before we get to Acosta's details, I like that because Jared Jackson, our producer, always there's like a Zapruder film like analysis of what happened. So that one was clear. Now let's go to Acosta's explanation. After that, we went into the Roosevelt room inside the White House where he and the President of Kazakhstan made some pretty lengthy remarks. And then at the conclusion of those remarks, we attempted to ask the President more questions about this controversy. And it was at that point, Wolf, I have to underline, I've never encountered anything like this before at the White House. The Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley and a press wrangler over here at the White House got basically right up in my house. my face and the faces of other pool reporters here at the White House and started shouting so loudly that it was impossible for the President to hear our questions or even see

that we were trying to ask questions. It was that kind of a display. It reminded me of something that you might see in less democratic countries when people at the White House or officials of a foreign government attempt to get in the way of the press and doing their jobs. But essentially that is what just happened a few moments ago here. They were so determined to block us from asking questions that they got right up in our face and started shouting, no questions,

no questions, so the president could make an exit from the Roosevelt room without taking any questions, Wolf. It's a really serious issue, but I do have to make a couple of goofy comments. Has Wolf Blitzer ever had a facial expression? It is amazing how stoic he remains in every interview ever for the last 20, 30 years. Okay, now on to the substance. The president doesn't really believe in the Constitution. Freedom of the press, he thinks is an annoyance and one he'd like to get rid of it.

He said it a billion different times. He's about to do some stupid fake news awards. He is openly hostile to the press. Look, you want to fight back against press that you think is biased? That's totally fair. Trying to shut down the press, threatening their broadcast license as he did with NBC, threatening mergers as he's doing with Time Warner 18T. You might have different issues with that merger, and I do.

but him saying on the record that he's going to look into it because he doesn't agree with CNN. Those are massive actual First Amendment issues. Now not letting reporters ask questions. That's not what America stands for. All right. But I can't help it. You know Trump. He was probably like, oh, President of Kazakhstan, that's great.

I can't wait to meet Borat. It's probably profoundly disappointed. That's why he wanted to wrap it up as soon as possible. All right. Anyways, I'm a bad man. We're going to take a quick break here. Remember how I promise you good news for progressives? That's coming up next.

You're right in the middle of this podcast. We've got another great segment coming up for you. If you'd like the full show, which is actually five segments, go to t-y-tnetwork.com slash join. You become a member. You support the show. You support independent media. And you get the whole two-hour show ad-free every day.

Let's go do it now. All right, back on a young Turks. But Askins writes in using hashtag T.Y.T. Live on Twitter. One has worked hard his entire life, paid taxes, devoted father and to his wife and children, not accused of any crimes. The other has never worked a day in his life, cheated on taxes, three times married, and accused of multiple crimes. Tell me again which one is getting deported?

We need a merit-based system, okay? Excellent point, Anna. Steven Scales says, is a black man dealing with racism in America my entire life? I'm starting to see this country the way my grandmother used to describe to me as a child. Oh, that is so devastating. Yes, that's a scary and unfortunate thought, but unfortunately, very real these days. Okay, t-y-tnetwork.com slash join to become a member. Get the full show anytime you want, no ads.

All right, what's next, Anna? Okay. Over the weekend, comedian Aziz Ansari was talked about, written about in a publication known as Babe. The author, Katie Way, recounted a story by an anonymous woman. They used a pseudonym, Grace, to talk about her and her experience with Aziz Ansari. Now, the title or the headline of the piece was, I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life, which kind of primes you for a devastating account of sexual misconduct, criminal behavior, something, something really bad. But as you read her account, you learn that Aziz Ansari was interested in having sex with

her. She did not want to have sex with him. They didn't end up doing what she didn't want to do after she made it clear. She didn't want to do it. And I was left wondering what the issue was. But don't take that for me. I want you guys to hear the important parts of this piece and judge for yourselves. So I'm going to go ahead and read that to you. And then we'll have have a discussion. So this is how it was described in the Bay piece. They walked back to his apartment building when they walked it back, when they walked back in, she complimented his marble countertops. According to Grace, Ansari turned the compliment into an invitation. He said something along the lines of, how about you hop up and take a seat? Within moments, he was kissing

her. In a second, his hand was on my breast. Then he was undressing her. One of the hardest parts of getting older is feeling like something's off in your body, but not knowing exactly what. It's not just aging. It's often your hormones, too. When they fall out of balance, everything feels off. But here's the good news. This doesn't have to be the story of your next chapter. Hormone Harmony by Happy Mammoth is an herbal formula made with science-backed ingredients, designed to fine-tune your hormones by balancing estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, and even stress hormones like cortisol. It helps with common issues such as hot flashes, poor sleep, energy, bloating, and more. With over 40,000 reviews and a bottle sold every 24 seconds,

the results speak for themselves. A survey found 86% of women lost weight, 77% saw an improved mood, and 100% felt like themselves again. Start your next chapter feeling balanced and in control. For a limited time, get 15% off your entire first order at happy mammoth.com with code next chapter at checkout. Visit happy mammoth.com today and get your old self back naturally. Then he undressed himself. She remembers feeling uncomfortable at how quickly things escalated. Now, this was following a date that they had. Apparently they had met after an award ceremony.

They were at some sort of party. He had some sort of old school camera. She's an aspiring photographer. So she noticed that camera and they sparked a conversation that way. And they exchanged numbers. And then later on when they both flew back to New York, they went out on this date. And what she's detailing here is the experience she had once they went to his apartment after the date, okay? And I'm just going to get one more detail before they got to his apartment.

She also wrote that during the dinner, in fact, I'll give two quick details, he ordered white wine and she had wanted red wine. Okay, and she also said that he got the bill and paid it in a hurry and then they went back to his apartment. Yeah. Yes. So let me give you more. The main thing was that he wouldn't let her, the main thing was that he wouldn't let her move away from him. She compared the path. That's weird. That's not the graphic I want to go to yet. Okay, let's go to the next graphic, please. Throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was. Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling.

I know that my hand stopped moving at some points. I stopped moving my lips and turned cold. Now, that's a very important part of the piece because grace makes it very clear, that her communication was non-verbal until the very end when she made it clear that she did not want to have sex. At that point, he was like, okay, then we're not having sex. Why don't we go back to the couch and chill with our clothes on? Okay? And so he didn't pressure her or force her to have sex, you know, after she said no. He complied with what she wanted. So let me give you more. Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. Okay.

Whether Ansari didn't notice Grace's reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say. I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn't interested. I don't think that was noticed at all. He kept asking, so I said, next time, meaning asking for sex. And he goes, oh, you mean second date? And I go, oh yeah, sure. And he goes, well, if I poured you another glass of wine, would it count as our second date? He then poured her a glass of wine and handed it to her.

She excused herself to the bathroom soon after. Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay. I said, I don't want to feel forced because then I'll hate you and I'd rather not hate you. She told Babe that at first she was happy with how he reacted. He said, oh, of course it's only fun if we're both having fun. Then he said, let's chill over here on the couch. Okay. So at that point, they were hanging out on the couch, but they both still did not have

their clothes on, right? When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back or play with her hair, something to calm her down. Okay. So then. So he didn't. He didn't play with her hair. He didn't play with her hair. At that point, you know, he thought, all right, well, I don't know what the physical cues were, but he apparently tried to have sex one last time. She made it super clear, don't want to have sex. At that point, that was when he told her, why don't we put our clothes on and chill on the couch? And at that point, they did it. As they were watching TV,

a Seinfeld episode apparently, she told him, you know, all of you guys are the same. She was an expletive in there. And at that point, she decided to leave. He called her a cab, and she left. And she just says that during the entire crab ride, she was crying. So that was the gist of the story. And the way that it was described by her was that, you know, it took her a while to validate this experience as sexual assault, but that she does feel like it was a sexual assault, even though she never verbally told him, I don't want to have sex with you until the very end.

And as soon as she said that, he stopped. So I don't, okay, so go ahead, jump in. Okay, so look, guys, it's really important in these stories to try to walk in the other person's foot for a second and see each other's perspective. So, and I'm a guy, so I, of course I see the guy's perspective first. I'm keeping it real on that. And back when I was a conservative, this story would have flipped me out and I would have not bothered to see the other perspective. So now, even so, you know, you're going to see where I come out on it. But let's look at both sides, okay?

So first, let's look at her point of view and the point of view of a lot of women, okay? So a lot of times pressured into sex, pressured into sex, and a lot of folks are, number one, a lot of them got pressured into sex, and then they said no, and it happened anyway. So for those group of women who have gone through a horrific experience, when they see a story like this, it is hard for them not to personalize it, not to feel like, I was there, I was fair, right? And that happened to me and there's something terrible happened to me. Now, in this case, it is certainly an open question as to whether something terrible happened next, right? And so at TYT, we frequently talk about all the ways that big tech companies are taking control

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ExpressVPN is rated number one by CNET and Wired magazine. So take back control of your life online and secure your data with a top VPN solution available, ExpressVPN. And if you go to ExpressVPN.com slash TYT, you can get three extra months. for free with this exclusive link just for T-Y-T fans. That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash T-YT. Check it out today. I think that old me would have gotten angry at those people, right? And so what I'm asking you to do is not to get angry on either side and to say, oh, okay,

I didn't have that experience. I haven't been a woman who's been nonstop pressured. And I haven't been a woman who's been assaulted, okay? So I have to jump in. So I am a woman. And so, you know, my natural bias, I guess, is to understand the woman's perspective, hear her out before I even consider the perspective of anyone else. So I'm being clear with you guys about what my personal bias is. Now, with that said, as a woman, I've also had my own personal experiences that were actually shockingly similar to what she experienced that night. And I never once thought of myself as, a victim. And the reason why I didn't is because as soon as I made it clear, just like she did, that I was not interested in any type of sexual relationship, the guy stopped. And for me to publicly out that person while concealing my identity and potentially destroy his life, his career, I think is, to be quite honest with you, outrageous. Okay? Now, let me be clear

about something, nonverbal communication is not clear, right? So what might seem like clear nonverbal communication to you might not be clear communication for the other party, which is why it's so incredibly important to verbally communicate that you're not interested, which she eventually did, and immediately after she did that, he complied. Okay? Yeah, so again, but one more, and I'm to get to Aziz aside in a second. But one more thing. A lot of women have, whether they were frightened or just didn't know what to do, they didn't feel comfortable. And next thing, you know, they were having sex. Not in this case. If they had oral sex, right? And she says that he kept moving her hand down to her genitals, et cetera. Look, everybody's been involved in a thousand

uncomfortable, awkward situations. But a lot of women have felt that way. And then the sex actually happened, and they felt, maybe I should have said something, maybe I shouldn't, I don't know, I got stuck in that situation, and they feel terrible about it. So when they see the story, they react in a way of like, damn it, I've been there, and they get mad. But it is important, so I understand that. But it is also important that we be fair to everyone involved and take every story on its own merits. And in this case, she didn't say she was, she participated it all along. She participated all along. And so I brought up the wine thing and the hair thing for a second because why are you putting that in the story? Because it loses credibility for

yourself. I think it's important to actually give you the exact quote regarding the wine because it's in the very beginning of the piece. And it really stood out to me too because of the wording that she utilized. I didn't get to choose. So she was asked about the drink. drank red wine. It was white, she said. I didn't get to choose. I prefer red, but it was white wine. Like, why mention that?

It's just, there's just all sorts of little, I mean, look, some people love to mention microaggressions, right? And I feel like there are little statements made throughout that made it seem as though she had absolutely no control over the situation, that he had 100% of the control. And I think that that's not an accurate way of depicting what actually happened. Yeah. And so there are many things we're worried about. One of which is that this assumes that women have no agency, that they are, look, we all want women to be strong and independent. I thought that's what feminism was about and what we were fighting for.

Like, you know what you can say, hey, I prefer red wine. You could say that, right? And it goes to a state of mind here. I don't want to overemphasize the wine because it's not important, right? But it goes to the state of mind. And same with the hair. Like, why didn't he play with my hair? But you never told him to play with your hair.

And New York Times writer, a woman wrote, I'm a proud feminist. And Aziz Ansari cannot read your mind. And that is, that's, of course, the core of the argument. And that is true. So even if you're, and so sometimes I get in trouble when I say this. But look, if you are in an uncomfortable situation, please be strong. And I know sometimes it's hard. And you didn't being put in an awkward situation.

situation. Being put in an uncomfortable situation is often is not what you asked for, right? And sometimes a man is physically intimidating and you feel scared. So Whoopi Goldberg said on the view, why don't not you just kick him in the nuts. But look, that's glib. Because a lot of times you can't do that. And so, and if you said that about someone who was actually date rape, that is victim blaming, right? But it is also true that you should say, if you don't want to say, do something, you should say it. And because he, because now. He can't read your mind. He can't read your mind. Period.

So if you're a woman in that situation, now I want you to for a second also put yourself in the perspective of a guy. It appears he had no idea. You might not believe that. You might say, oh, he should have known, he should have known my nonverbal cues, my mumbling. Those are her words, not my words. And he should have, and maybe he should have, maybe if he was a super cool guy, he would have been like, hey, you know what, she doesn't look like she's into it.

And by the way, guys, if she doesn't look like she's into it, for God's sake stop. Don't, you know, and not just for your sake, but for her sake, stop, right? Because this is the world we're in now. So, and maybe that's a slightly better thing, by the way, because maybe that avoids a lot of women being put in situations where they didn't want to be in. But in terms of blaming Aziz Ansari, it's true. He can't read your mind. If you don't want him to do something, say it instead of mumbling or hoping that he understands

your nonverbal cues. So let me. And by the way, she did. She said no at one point. He said, let's put on our clothes and chill out on the couch, and they did. Yeah. If a guy who's, when you say no, he puts on his clothes and he stops, if that guy is equally guilty as a guy who doesn't, well, then you've diminished what rape and sexual assault

means. And you've done great damage to the movement, to this wonderful liberating movement of Me Too, which for all these women who were suffering under sexual harassment, sexual assault, couldn't talk about it. We just did the Eliza Dushka story yesterday. It's heart wrenching. Don't diminish that by saying a guy who when you say no stops is equally guilty of, because she used the word sexual assault.

So I want to just to, you know, further solidify the fact that Ansari had no idea that she was this bothered and uncomfortable. The next day he had sent her a text message. By the way, this was all shown to Katie Way of Babe. and he wrote, it was fun meeting you last night. And then she responded, you ignored clear nonverbal cues. You kept going with advances, Grace explains. I want to make sure that you're aware so maybe the next girl doesn't have to cry on the right home.

And he responded, I'm so sad to hear this. Clearly I misread things in the moment and I'm truly sorry. By the way, that is now being used against them. So there is an article in law and crime saying that since he apologized, he, might have accidentally confessed to two crimes. These are really, really serious issues. So if you're going to anonymously accuse someone of sexual assault, you are, will, you, if you don't understand that that could ruin his career,

that could ruin his life, and people aren't going to read the entirety of the article, they're just not, they're going to see the headlines. And his picture is going to go next to Harvey Weinstein's picture. And so I don't care if you got angry at Matt Damon. And maybe I'm a bad guy for saying that. But they are not the same thing. That one guy's a monster of monsters, okay, that does all of these non-consensual things. Another guy listens to what a woman said, and now their pictures are next to one another.

The headlines say the similar things. It's not right. And when you ruin someone's life, there are oftentimes plenty of good reasons to do it. Harvey Weinstein and Roger Ailes, Kevin Spacey, the list goes on and on and on. But I think you have a moral duty to take a little care in that process. And now I don't know, I hope he did, based on my reading of the story, I hope he doesn't face legal consequences. But if we're going in this direction, and by the way, now it makes guys reluctant to say

that, to apologize and to say that they did the wrong thing and try to see it your way. I think what's lacking in this discussion, and I think the reason why it's lacking is because people are afraid to just come forward and say it. But if we get blowback, then we get blowback. We're not having a nuanced discussion at all when it comes to this movement. We are not differentiating between various types of sexual misconduct. We are not differentiating between a bad date from what happened with Harvey Weinstein. We're not differentiating any of it.

We're just kind of lumping everything together into one group because, you know, in some cases, women felt slighted. in some cases women were raped, and you can't compare those two things. Well, you can't, you should compare those two things, but you can't lump them into the same group. And I think that's the big problem right now. And anyone who has the audacity to speak out against that, that unnuanced, you know, discussion that's taking place in the country gets demonized. And I think that that unfortunately stops an important conversation from happening.

You know, destroying the careers of people who haven't actually committed crimes, who haven't actually sexually assaulted people. That is a very scary world to live in. And I'm seeing things happen now for political reasons, people with political agendas, making all sorts of crazy accusations. And that stuff really concerns me because it does damage on so many different components of this issue. And it especially minimizes cases of sexual assault and rape when you lump everything together

like this. I actually think Ashley Banfield had a great point about that. I want to go to that and then when we come back, I want to discuss one last thing, which which is cultural difference in America. Because I think millennials are seeing things differently, or some portion of millennials are seeing things differently so differently than I would say, quote unquote, the rest of us, that it's fascinating. So first let's go to Ashley Banfield, making a similar point to Anna.

The Me Too movement has righted a lot of wrongs. And it has made your career path much smoother. And here's where I'm guessing it's going to be a long career path. You're 23. What a gift. Yet you looked that gift horse in the mouth and chiseled away at that powerful movement with your public accusation. And I'm going to repeat this because it's important. If you were sexually assaulted, go to the cops.

If you were sexually harassed, jeopardizing your work, speak up and speak out loud. But by your own descriptions, that is not what happened. You had an unpleasant date and you did not leave. That is on you. And all the gains that have been achieved on your behalf and mine are now being compromised for the allegations that you threw out there. And I'm going to call them reckless and hollow. I cannot name you publicly and sentence you to a similar career hit, as I'm sorry,

because you chose to remain anonymous, lucky you. But as you grow in your photography career, I really do hope that you remember what you did to someone else's career, all because of that bad date that was not a sexual, assault that was not sexual harassment by your description. And I hope the next time you go on a bad date, you stand up, sooner, you smooth out your dress, and you bloody well leave. Because the only sentence that a guy like that deserves is a bad case of blue balls,

not a Hollywood black ball. So, look, it does damage to the Me Too movement because it allows so many guys. And I, look, I know the guy's perspective. It allows a lot of guys to go, I knew it was all BS from the beginning. Oh, that's terrible. It's not BS. Roger Ayles would take out his penis and chase a woman around his office. Matt Lauer had the button to lock the door behind them.

I can go on and on. Harvey Weissing would literally barge into their house and rip off their clothes and rape them. And this is what they dealt with at work, at work. And it was just, that's why I keep saying the movement has liberated millions of women. So I, this does, in our opinion, does damage to that movement. And by the way, it also pushes a lot of people to the right wing. They go, if that's the progressive position, I don't want any part of that. And here we are as progressive saying, no, it is not necessarily the progressive position.

And so one more thing. And maybe I'm a little older. And the person who wrote about this for the Atlantic, it's a woman who says, look, she's a proud feminist. She went through a couple of sexual assaults, but she's a little older. For millennial women, apparently, according to an economist, you go of a poll. 25% of millennial each American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. And more than a third say that if a man compliments a woman's looks, it is harassment. Not at work, just period.

I don't know how we're going to get along if that's the new standard. But that's a cultural difference. And so they view the world obviously in a very different way. And they don't understand us. They're like, how could you not see that we are being pressured and we are being asked to do things we don't want to do? And this is, if I like the guy, then yes, great. But if I don't, it's terrible, right?

So we have to try to understand each other. And there's going to be a lot of hurt feelings and a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunication and probably a lot of anger before we get to a place where we can be joined again as one community, but right now there is vast differences among us. And I think that this is a case that is beginning to have people say, you know, this might have gone too far. Yeah. And, you know, it's really hard to articulate this, but I, as a woman, I'm starting to become increasingly irritated with people deciding for me that I'm a victim. And I'm not a victim. I am not someone who anyone should feel sorry. I get to decide. I get to decide when I'm a victim. I get to

decide when I work in a hostile work environment or anything like that. No one gets to decide that for me. And I feel like I'm seeing a lot of that right now in the media that I don't appreciate. Okay, we're out of time. I hope we did justice to that issue. And stay with us. We've got rebel headquarters coming up next. Some great progressive candidates. And then we'll do a post game afterwards as well. All right. Bye bye. Thanks for watching. We're listening to this free version of the Young Turks podcast. You know that the full show is at t-y-tnetwork.com slash join. If you become a member, you get the full show ad-free. We love you for watching or listening either way. There's going to be a new free podcast tomorrow.

You can keep on doing that. But if you want to get the full show ad-free, t-y-tnetwork.com Slash join. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks. Support our work. Listen ad-free. Access members only bonus content. and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Jane Huger, and I'll see you soon.