The Young Turks - The Young Turks 11.16.17: Al Franken Allegations, Kevin Spacey Investigation

Episode Date: November 17, 2017

Ana, Michael Shure, & Mark Thompson. Al Franken accused of sexual assault. Ana, Mark Thompson, & Lauren Sivan. Kevin Spacey allegations grow to theatre company days.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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No ads. Become a member right now. TYT network.com slash join. What's up, everyone? Welcome to T.Y.T. I'm Anna Casparian. Joining me today is Michael Shore and Mark Thompson. My voice is not joining me yet. Hopefully it'll get back to me next week. Sounds good. It's coming back or it's starting out. And like a Kim Carnes-y way. Do you know Kim Carnes is? No, I don't know who that is. Bart knows who Kim Carnes says. Kim Carnes sang a song called Betty Davis Eyes. Oh, okay. Yeah, which you've probably heard. She had this great raspy voice. Okay. All right. I'll take it. I'll take it.

It's kind of sexy. Oh, okay. Jake told me that my voice is either, that there are two camps in the audience, the people who are insanely irritated by hearing my voice right now, and then the people who are turned on by it. So I don't know what the percentages are, but I'm sorry if you don't like it, hopefully my voice will go back to normal soon. All right, so we have so much news to get to.

Obviously, in the Trump era, there are several huge news stories in every single news cycle. Later on in the show, we will get to the details about what's going on with tax cuts for the wealthy. The House has managed to pass their version of that legislation, and I will tell you what that legislation includes. And then further along in the hour, we'll also talk about one sheriff in Texas who was outraged over a sticker, an anti-Trump sticker someone had on the back of their car. What action did this cop take against the citizen? I'll let you know later on in the show. You guys ready? Let's do it.

I haven't been here for a while, so I don't know how ready I am. You're always ready. You're Michael, sure. You're ready with not only knowledge about what's going on right now, but like crazy historical information that no one else would know. Yeah, he's forgotten more about politics than Oliver knows. I love it, I love it. All right.

Unfortunately, we start off with some pretty devastating news. Democratic Senator Al Franken has been accused of sexual assault by a reporter, a radio reporter by the name of Leanne Tweedon. Just full disclosure, Leanne Tweedin is someone who was on the show that I used to host for the network, The Point. She came on on a regular basis, and I know her personally. But I didn't know this story until now, because today was the first time that she spoke about her experience with Al Franken back in 2007. Now, she shared her account in a published article for ABC, and she accused him of kissing and groping her without consent during a 2006 U.S.O tour of the Middle East before he took public office. So I apologize, it was 2006, not 2007. She wrote that it occurred in December of 2006, not long before Christmas, when she was a performer for the tour alongside Mr. Franken, then a well-known comedian.

in. Now, there were two components of her accusations that really stood out to me and to most people. The first accusation is what he did to her, allegedly did to her physically. According to Ms. Tweedin's account, Mr. Franken wrote a body script that included a kiss for the two to perform on stage. When it came time to rehearse the skit, she wrote, Mr. Franken insisted on kissing despite her protestations. So she didn't want to kiss, and then he, went for it. And she claims that he grabbed her in the back of the neck and try to make it happen. But she pushed him off. She says, I immediately pushed him away with both my hands against his chest and told him if he ever did that to me again, I wouldn't be so nice about it next time. I walked away.

All I could think about was getting to a bathroom as fast as possible to rinse the taste of him out of my mouth. I felt disgusted and violated. Now, Al Franken has released two statements in response to these allegations. The first statement was very brief. He wrote, I certainly don't remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leanne. As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny, but wasn't. I shouldn't have done it.

So that gets to the second part of the allegation, and this is where she has pretty damning evidence. Let's go to graphic number three, please. She shared this photo of the tour that she was speaking of. She had fallen asleep because she had just returned from a tour in Afghanistan. She was a member of the military. She is a veteran. And while she was asleep, Franken posed in this way for the photo. And it's degrading, it's disgusting.

And Franken later released a longer statement addressing that component of the allegations. So let me go ahead and read that to you right now. He says, I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leanne would feel violated by that picture.

And what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it. Women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me. And the truth is what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and I am committed to making it up to them. So we have some video of Leanne Tweedin speaking to Jake Tapper.

We'll get to that in just a minute. But I kind of want to open it up to you guys and hear your thoughts. We were talking about this earlier today, and... So we've covered it. It's a problem, because there is a spectrum, it seems. There's a, there are different gradations of sexual misconduct. So we, the apology, as it reads, you really don't know how bad the sexual misconduct was, right? It was a pretty powerful apology.

And I, as a man, feels sort of awkward even commenting or judging the gradations. I can certainly say this is different than stalking a 14-year-old at a mall and then you're trying to, or calling her to high school and trying to take Astra out on a date when you're in your 30s. I mean, I can definitely separate these two things. But I guess what I'm trying to get at is this is wrong, but with all of these allegations coming forward, I'm having trouble. ordering them all and assigning a priority to how bad each one is.

I'm not excusing this at all. I'm simply trying to order it because they're all getting jumbled together. I get what you mean. And look, I think most rational people know that there's a difference between, you know, outright sexual assault or pedophilia. And, you know, what happened to Leanne Tweedin is horrible, and she felt violated and degraded. And I think most women would feel like that. No one has any right to put their hands on anyone else without consent.

And taking that degrading picture was, you know, beyond offensive and degrading. However, look, I think that women, all women are different. All women respond to different, you know, different types of assault or different types of harassment in various ways. And so what might be considered not a big deal if it's an ass grab to one woman might end up, you know, really making another woman feel incredibly unsafe or. you know, degraded, whatever it is. And so I hate getting into these discussions about what's worse. But I think what's more important to focus on is this broader discussion about this

sense of entitlement that all of these perpetrators have had, right? Like, I think that's like the one constant among all of them. The power thing. The power thing and the abuse of power and this sense of entitlement, the sense of, yeah, I'm going to do this and I'm not worried about any consequences. And think about this. This happened in 2006. There never were any consequences. He went on to be a senator. He went on to live his life. And this was something that she quietly lived with behind the scenes for all this time. And it's because she felt that she couldn't come forward because people were going to attack her. And by the way, that has happened. And she talks about that with Jake Tapper. Now, I want to go to her

videos, video number two. She talks about why in a lot of cases women don't come forward. Decades will go by and they will just remain quiet. Take a look. I was nervous to come out about it. This doesn't make me feel good. Everybody goes, oh, you're so strong, you're going to feel so great talking about it. I still have a knot in my stomach. This is, you know, this isn't some like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do it and I feel great about it. It's difficult. It's difficult to do it. It is hard. Why do you think there are people that haven't talked, there's still a lot of people that haven't told their stories. And there, you know, in the case of Roy Moore, there are people 40 years later that are reluctantly coming out about it. I mean, it's, it's

embarrassing, it's humiliating. There are still people I've looked on Twitter that are still blaming me for it. I'm like, you look at the picture, I'm asleep, and there's still, somehow it's my fault. Really? Okay. Al Franken has come out and apologized and said, you know what, that was in poor taste. I thought it was funny, and it's still my fault. That's why women don't come out. Well, I mean, first of all, the biggest mistake she's made, the only mistake she's made is going on Twitter. You should not, she should not go on Twitter because she's only going to get that kind of criticism. I think, you know, the attention-grabbing thing here is the photograph, right? And that's got, to me, that obfuscates the real,

the, if true, disgusting thing that Franken did with, which was push himself on it. You have to remember, too, Al Franken in 2006 was months before he even announced his candidacy for Senate. He'd been in a writer's room at Saturday Night Live, and we've all read books or at articles about what that life was like for a very long time. He was a goofball, and I didn't think he was that funny ever until he wrote a book, which was funny. So the photograph of him going like this, as stupid as that is, and as offensive as that is, that's probably the goofball comedian thing that he's prone to doing. And I think it really takes the story in a different direction, because it's not just that. It's that he forced himself upon a woman in that situation

and when it didn't have to happen. And if that's true, and listen, the other thing that happens with these stories, and I don't know anything about Franken, but every single time this happens, there are other accusers who follow. There are other stories, other anecdotes. It hasn't happened yet with Franken, and it may tomorrow, it may tonight, it may with somebody else, and we forget about Franken because this is happening in such rapid fire.

But I think that what people have to keep hold of with this Franken thing is he violated this woman and not. in that stupid photograph, which was stupid to take, and he did violate her. But, I mean, I just think the context of Al Franken, a comedian, is very different than Al Franken, a man in a position of power who was a comedian with a younger performer violating her womanhood, violating everything about her. And so I just think that the picture, to me, serves as a distraction to what the real offense was. Yeah, I have a different take on the picture.

Yeah, which you're probably right about it, because I think I I might be in a minority about this, but I just think the context of a comedian who I never found funny doing something that was really not funny is that. And that's a little bit of the, you know, explanation that he got at in his longer statement. Did he talk about it? Yeah, he did, he did. So I want to be clear, when I read the longer statement, that wasn't the full statement. You should read the full statement for yourself. But he does get into how, you know, at the time he thought this was funny, it was like a comedy thing.

But look, think about, I don't care if you're a comedian, because think about what this really communicates to a woman like Leanne Tweed, or women in general. She had literally gotten back from a tour in Afghanistan. She's wearing her military gear, okay, and he poses in a picture where he's degrading her by pretending like he's grabbing her breasts while she's asleep. By the way, she didn't know the picture was being taken. She didn't even find out about it until much later, right? It's inexcusable. It is inexcusable. I just mean that I don't want it to distract from what he actually did.

No, that I agree with you on, because, you know, the physical assault is a serious accusation. And since there's proof in the form of a photo of the second part of the allegation. It makes the first part more believe. And that's what Michael's saying, that that's essentially stealing the spotlight on this story. And we can rank the two things. I mean, the sexual assault or the physical assault, maybe better put, But that, I think, ranks worse. He was, it's sophomoric, it's like a frat house thing.

She's asleep and you're going on. And he's, you know, leaning into the picture. It was clearly done in that comic spirit for him. But it didn't pass the litmus test of comedy as we've seen. Which, by the way, none of this stuff really did. When he was on Saturday Night Live, I don't know you guys, you remember it. I didn't think he was that funny. And this was exactly like in line with his human.

I disagree. I think Al Franken, I think, and here's why it matters to us, because he was a voice of, he was a clear voice on Capitol Hill as he segued into the Democratic Party. For sure. And so it hurts and kind of smarts on that level as well. But whether it was funny or not. Yeah, if that wasn't funny and it doesn't stand the test of time. Yes, it does not stand the test of time. Finally, I just want to go to another video of Leanne Tweeden. Speaking to Jake Tapper, she was asked if she accepts his apology, and I thought her answer was interesting. Take a look. Do you accept his apology? I do. I do. And, you know, the one that came out this morning, I accepted that one, too.

It was very short and very brief. My initial reaction was it sounded like a staffer put that out hastily, you know, which maybe could have been the truth, you know, to get it out quickly because when it hit, it was, you know, it went viral and it was everywhere. But that one did seem heartfelt, and I believe it, and I believe him, you know, and I honestly do believe him. And, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't waiting for an apology from him, but I gladly accept it. And, and thank you, Senator Frank, and, yeah. Do you wanted to call you? Sure. That last question, I know, I know what he meant by that last question, but it was so weird.

It sounded really weird. So, would you like a second date? Yeah. What do you liken to call you? Anyway. And the whole dynamic is fascinating because we haven't seen the accuser asked that, these accusers asked about this. And going back to the photo also, the more evidence you have of something like this, the more believable the crux of the story is. So if you have that goofy thing that he thought he was being goofy about, that photo, even if it isn't the offense, it makes the offense certainly seem more credible. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that's an important...

Although, again, I see the two so differently. I don't know that that really is true. I see one as a wah-wah, and it really being a stupid idea, but in that... We need to talk about a relatively new show called Un-F-The Republic, or UNFTR. As a young Turks fan, you already know that the government, the media, and corporations are constantly peddling lies that serve the interests of the rich and powerful. But now there's a podcast dedicated to unraveling those lies. debunking the conventional wisdom. In each episode of On The Republic, or UNFTR, the host delves into a different historical episode or topic that's generally misunderstood or purposely obfuscated by the so-called

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And that's true whether you're in Jedi training, or you're uprooting and exposing all the propaganda and disinformation you've been fed over the course of your lifetime. So search for UNFDR in your podcast app today and get ready to get informed, angered, and entertained all at the same time. And then the other is a guy trying to take a shot or something, like a really... No, I know, but what I mean is that you see that there's this sort of this line of thinking in this man's head at that time that could lead you to believe you to believe.

that he would have done that, who sexualizes this woman. So one other thing that I want to get to before we go to break, because this is also an important component to the story, Al Franken took responsibility and apologized immediately. And that's what he should do. And I'm glad that he apologized. But you don't see the same type of behavior from someone like Roy Moore who remains defiant. He has now been accused by several women who said that they were preyed upon when they were teenagers. He was banned from a mall. He was banned from a YMCA because he was known to go to those places looking for teen girls that he could prey on.

And I mean, there are people in Alabama who knew him and knew about this open secret talking to the media. These are not liberals. These are not progressives. These are Trump supporting Alabamans that, did I say that right, Alabamaans? Alabamians. Alabamians, yes. I would have accepted the way she said it. Well, you probably couldn't accept, but they say Alabamian.

Anyway. It doesn't matter. They're coming forward. And they're talking about, you know, what they experienced. And Roy Moore, here's what he tweeted about the Franken story today that I thought was amazing. Al Franken admits guilt after photographic evidence of his abuse surfaces, Mitch. meaning Mitch McConnell, let's investigate.

Which, by the way, to Mitch McConnell's credit, he did want to do an ethics investigation into Al Franken. And then he says, in Alabama, zero evidence, allegations 100% rejected. By the way, 100% rejected by whom, by you. You're the only person who rejects them. And then Mitch McConnell, again, to his credit, says that more must quit immediately or be expelled. So he's complaining that Mitch McConnell is treating him

similarly to how he's treating Al Franken. Well, yeah, can I have that for a second? Yeah, sure. First of all, Al Franken is a U.S. Senator. There is a process by which you go through. Roy Moore is not. So for him to say that Roy Moore should not be a candidate, should not stand, should drop out, should be expelled all those things.

He has a right to say he's a citizen. Al Franken has to go through this process, if the process is to begin. It's one that Franken wants to go through, that Chuck Schumer said he should go through. I'm going to challenge you on one of the things you said, to his credit, He said, let's investigate. In moments, moments after Al Franken had this allegation, Mitch McConnell said, let's investigate. When we knew about 15 women who accused candidate Donald Trump of sexual harassment,

sexual abuse, when we saw a tape where he said, grab him by the pussy, Mitch McConnell said nothing. I will totally concede. And I agree with you 100 on that. And Mitch McConnell allowed his wife to serve in the cabinet of this man. So I think there's a spinelessness about Mitch McConnell in this case that is in a excusable. That said, the Roy Moore remark about 100% unbelievable, that 100% refuted, because people seem to be glomming on to this stuff in a big way. And more and more accusations

came out today. So they will continue and we'll see what happens with Roy Moore, but he remains defiant, refuses to pull out of the Senate race in Alabama. It looks more, it looks greater and greater like Doug Jones will be the senator from Alabama. The polling has been high. As a matter of fact, there was a poll today, which I actually don't believe, that showed that Barack Obama is more popular in Alabama than Roy Moore is, which is astonishing to me. It's astonishing that it would be astonishing. Right, right, right, yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, pedophilia or Barack Obama. 21 seconds I want it's important for the Democratic Party here all these senators have come out and criticized Al Franken the Democrats have to take the right stand on this issue and if it's true and these things happened there should be no patience for Al Franken in this case because of the brand and I think and I said this to Mark earlier I think this guarantees and these the series of allegations should guarantee that a woman is on the ticket in 2020, they're at the top of the bottom of the ticket, because I think the Democrats can own this issue and can get women voters

to understand. I'm not apologizing that it's politics because he's a senator, and this is politics, and we're talking about elections. They should own this and show women that they are the party that's standing up to it while you see these Republicans coddling this pedophile in Alabama, this accused pedophile in Alabama. So I think it's an opportunity, too, and they can sacrifice Al Franken's Senate seat. He's a good senator with good voting record and all of that, but he can easily be replaced by another Democrat. And I pointed this out earlier too, is that Keith Ellison is a congressman from Minnesota, a possibility for their governor, Mark Dayton, a former senator, to appoint to the Senate seat should Al Franken resign, which we're not even close to having

happened. And then if Roy Moore wins, and Keith Ellison is the senator, Roy Moore is serving with a Muslim. So there's that. Wow, you really thought all this through. But yeah, I mean, look, I don't blame you to get into the political possibilities. I think that, you know, that's what a lot of people who are in the political world are concerned about. But, you know, my take is the same regardless of political ideology. If I don't care what the impact is going to be for any party. If this person is proven to be a predator, out.

I don't care. I don't care if it's a Democrat. Don't care if it's a Republican. It doesn't matter to me. Just be a decent human being and, you know, take care of people around you, protect the people around you, protect your constituents. But again, the word predator is radioactive, and I don't know that we can assign predator. I'm really asking, you know, Anna, you are sort of my beacon, especially when it comes to this sort of female view. Because I'm thinking maybe as a male, I've just been roughed up, or my worldview is different.

But the word predator is so toxic. Would I assign it to Al Franken and Rolls? Boy more, would I assign it to Weiner? You know, Anthony Weiner was, is he a predator? I mean, I don't know where the word predator is appropriately used. And is he a predator? I'll add to Mark's question. If this is all Al Franken did in his career of predation, is he a predator for having done this in 2006 before he was a senator when he was a husband, when he should have

been more responsible, when he took an injury? I don't, I really don't care about the time. No, no, I don't, I'm just saying. position was and what his profession was. I was just putting it in. He was a married man. He was a professional. He was in a position of power. He was with somebody who was far younger than him and probably looked up to him because of the kind of thing that they were doing there for the USO. I'm wondering if that is enough to say get out of the Senate now. I mean, you know, if this is what he did, if the buck stops right here. Yeah, look, that's a tough question and I feel

uncomfortable answering it right now. But what I will say is that, anyone who feels entitled to put their hands on anyone else and try to force physical contact, whether it's a kiss or whatever. Like, it's, that's serious to me, right? And so I get, I get, look, I get what you're saying. It's different from someone penetrating someone else. I get that, right? But it doesn't take away from the fact that a woman still feels.

Yes, it's a huge violation. And so I don't want to, and I know you don't mean to do that, but I want to make sure that you guys all know that, you know, there's no minimizing that, okay? Actually, the point, last point I was going to make was just, again, to remind everybody, I mean, the hypocrisy, the naked hypocrisy here on the part of these politicians is remarkable to me, because I, a bit like Anna, I don't really give a shit one way or the other, you know, what, a party loyalty. I mean, there's right and there's wrong. And the guy who's in the White House now has been so wrong on just this issue. He is, I would think, more in the

category of a sexual predator. Well, he's never even said a single thing about Roy Moore. And all of these, he like today, he has still yet released. I mean, he loves to tweet. He's like up at two, three in the morning tweeting a storm, right? About nonsense. He'll tweet about, you know, what he's watching on cable news at that moment, but he won't release a single statement about all these allegations against Roy Moore. I think that, you know, his silence, it says a lot. A ton. And to Democrats, to your credit mark, to their credit mark, they, seconds after this came out, a mass of senators said, this is reprehensible, this is unacceptable, if this is true, it has to be dealt with.

There's still Republican senators who haven't said how they feel about Roy Moore. There's Robert Adderholt and there's Mo Brooks. These are a congressman from Alabama. Rampal, right, yeah, Rand Paul, exactly. People saying that, no, no, I think he should be there. It'd be better than having a Democrat there about Roy Moore. Come on, come on. All right, we got to take a break.

When we come back, we will shift the focus to policy news. We'll tell you about what the House just passed when it comes to tax cuts for the wealthy. Come right back. Welcome back to TYT. I'm Anna Casparian, and you guys are in for a fascinating segment because Lauren Cavan, who is a journalist in Los Angeles, is joining me to talk about some of what's going on in the country. now in regard to sexual harassment, sexual assault. She is an incredible reporter, but more importantly, she is one of the courageous women who came forward when the Harvey Weinstein story broke.

And she shared about her pretty horrible experience with him back in 2007, I believe. And I say it's courageous because, first of all, a lot of times when women come forward and they share their experiences in similar instances, especially when it comes to a man with power. They're usually met with, you know, it goes beyond skepticism. They're met with brutal language, you know, even more degrading treatment. And it was so important for that story to break because it opened the floodgates and made a lot of other women feel comfortable coming forward. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for joining me.

Oh, yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you. So I just, for those of you who are unfamiliar with the story, I really don't want her to have to get into the details again, but I want to quickly summarize what he did. This happened back in 2007 at Chippriani, which is a pretty famous restaurant in Manhattan. She was with Harvey Weinstein. He was showing her around the restaurant at a different restaurant. I apologize. At this point, it was like a Cuban restaurant. Yeah, something like that.

Socialista, which is now closed. But right. And so at one point, he corners her into a back of the restaurant area and tries to make a move on you. And Lauren, you told him, no, I have a boyfriend. And at that point, he says, tells you to just shut up and watch. And then he pulls his penis out and masturbates in front of you. Yep. Yeah. I mean. I know. I know. Unbelievable. So that's what you went through. And what I'm curious about is what was the reaction that you got following the publication of all these allegations, including yours? You mean now? Yeah. I mean, I came out initially because that New York Times story came out with Ashley Judd and Rose McGowan, who bravely came out against him. And I was so proud of them for doing that. And I thought, oh, good, finally, people are going to see what he's like.

And then he came out with a ridiculous apology. calling them liars, basically, going on some political rant. I didn't even understand what he was talking about. And that made me furious because I knew what kind of guy he was based on that encounter I had with him 10 years prior. So that's why I decided to come out publicly. And it was definitely scary. I didn't sleep the whole night before I knew it was going to be published because I still wasn't sure if I should even attach my name to it. I was, you know, as a woman, it's like, what are you?

have to gain from this. And then for the rest of your life, you know, anytime someone Googles your name, this is what's going to come up. And you don't want to be forever known as the, you know, potted plant girl or something. Oh, my God. And not only that, I mean, did you worry about the reaction to it? Because I think about women in college who come forward saying that they've been raped or sexually assaulted. And a lot of them are dragged through the mud. And I wonder if, you know, you had any of those fears. before that story was published, like that night when you couldn't sleep. Well, at TYT, we frequently talk about all the ways that big tech companies are taking

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But listen, guys, this is important. ExpressVPN is rated number one by CNET and Wired magazine. So take back control of your life online and secure your data with a top VPN solution available, ExpressVPN. And if you go to ExpressVPN.com slash TYT, you can get three extra months for free with this exclusive link just for TYT fans. That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N.com slash T-Y-T. Check it out today. Yeah, I did. I did have some of those fears.

And I thought that people would think, well, what, you know, what's her agenda? What's her angle? Why is she doing this? And that was the thing. That was kind of why I came forward. I didn't have an agenda. I didn't want anything from Harvey Weinstein. I didn't want to assume.

I didn't want money. I didn't want to be in a movie. Nothing. So I felt like perhaps my voice could validate. their voices because I didn't work in the industry and I didn't have to work with him like they did. And the reaction, I want to say like 90% positive, 90% of women saying, wow, thank you for telling your story and sharing their own stories with me. As with anything, I mean, there are plenty of people like trolling online who will say, you know, you kept quiet for 10 years and

you could have helped someone else, which just frankly isn't true, number one. And number two, that's what we need to change, this victim blaming, this victim shaming culture, because that's exactly why people don't come out. I mean, if I came out when it happened, they would be like, oh, you're overreacting, and it's Harvey Weinstein, so good luck. And then when you do come out, they say, well, what took you so long? You know, I mean, you can't win. I want to get to that. The question of why it takes people so long to come forward. So it was reported, and unfortunately, we didn't get a chance to cover this story until now, and I think it's really important to discuss it, It was reported that Harvey Weinstein would hire opposition researchers.

I mean, very prominent opposition researchers to start spying on the accusers. And then he would try to push for a smear campaign to take away any credibility that these women might have. And to, again, drag them through the mud. And the reason why we know about that is because Rodan Farrow spoke very candidly about who he hired. and what he planned on doing. And so the companies, the firms included Kroll, one of the largest corporate intelligence companies and Black Cube, an enterprise run largely by former officers of Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies.

So it was also becoming increasingly obvious that this was going on because Rose McGowan was like noticing that people were asking her very personal questions. following her around, and it turned out that some of these people ended up being spies and Apo researchers. And so, yeah, I mean, at least my take is that any person who is not in a position of power would be fearful that they would be, you know, followed around and smeared and their name would be completely destroyed, even though they're the victims. And we saw it with the Italian actress and model who actually had evidence, who had a recording, an audio recording of him, you know, relentlessly dragging her into his hotel room. And yet, you know,

nothing was done about that. And then he had, you know, journalists at the New York Post, write articles basically smearing her saying, oh, she's accusing him of what? Like, she showed up at his party. She did this, she did that. And, you know, insinuating that she was a liar and trying to get something out of him. So why would anyone have ever come forward? I mean, there was no winning. And then if you had to work in that industry, if you had to work with him. I mean, just imagine having to deal with this guy, having, you know, Daryl Hannah said she was moving a bureau in front of her hotel room door to keep him out. And when she complained about it, she was taken off the press tour. I mean, just imagine. So before right now, there was no

upside to coming forward with your story. It was something that you had to keep a secret, deal with, and then do this weird tap dance with this person if you still had to work with him to be polite and try just not to be alone with them. I mean, women shouldn't have to deal with that, especially in the workplace. And you did have to deal with him. You didn't have to necessarily communicate with him, but you would have to see him around following that pretty terrible encounter. Well, when I came to Hollywood, yeah. I would cover red carpet events all the time, so he would oftentimes be on the red carpet

because a lot of his movies get nominated. And I just, you know, I would try my best to never have to interview him or to pretend I didn't see him if he went by. And I think I did once have to talk to him at a red carpet years ago. And, you know, he had no idea who I was. I mean, he didn't show any recognition, which I was grateful for, by the way. Right. But it's telling, right? Yeah. Because, you know, I think you were on Megan Kelly's show when you said this, that he, that made it abundantly clear that you were not the only victim.

Oh, yeah. That there had been many others. Oh, yeah. I knew that night that this goes on all the time. because it was only, it was like less than an hour from meeting him a stranger to having him expose himself. I mean, you count, do the math over 30 years, how many encounters he must have had with women that he would never see again or that he did see again. I mean, it's, it's, there are thousands, there have to be. Yeah, right now they're about, there probably are more that I don't know about.

But the latest number that I read was 80, 80 women accusing him of sexual harassment, sexual assault. Now, I want to kind of wrap up the conversation by talking about the culture, because this is not simply a Harvey Weinstein problem. This is not an isolated incident. As you guys know, this has now transferred on to other professions, other industries. And in my opinion, this shows that there is a cultural issue here. And it doesn't, it's not a cultural issue saying that, oh, all men, you know, they need to be talked to. And this is, no, it shows that there are people in positions of power who will abuse that power. And they get away with it. They've gotten away with it for a long, long time.

And I want to get your sense of what the future holds. Do you think that, you know, opening up the floodgates is really going to lead to change? Or is this, you know, just the hot story for the moment? And then people will lose interest. I hope not. I hope that real change comes. And, you know, I want to make it as specific as we possibly can overwork. what that change should and could look like because as great as it is to hear all these stories and the Me Too campaign, if everything stays the way it will, then, you know,

nothing will change. I think at the very least, now that people, so many people have come forward, I think women will be much more, you know, they'll call it out right when it happens in real time, right when they see it. They're no longer going to have that terrified fear that either no one will believe them or they'll be, you know, shut up or smeared or anything like that. I think that that's made it more comfortable for women to come forward. The other thing I think is this idea that the rich and the powerful can pay their way out of trouble that needs to end. You know, the non-disclosure agreements is something that I think needs to end when it comes

to sexual harassment to pay off a victim because of your egregious behavior and then to continue that behavior because she can no longer speak about it. That has to end. Absolutely. In many of these cases, as you brought up, we're not just talking about an off-collar comment. We're talking about assault. We're talking about rape. Those are felonies.

Those are crimes. They should not be covered up. Yeah, yes, that's a great point. I totally agree with you. Lauren will be joining us for the remainder of the show. So stick around because after the break we will cover more news. And Mark Thompson will also join us. So we'll be right back. Great.

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