The Young Turks - The Young Turks - October 23, 2020

Episode Date: October 24, 2020

Will Bernie Sanders be Joe Biden's Labor Secretary? Ana Kasparian and Nando Vila discuss on The Young Turks. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to The Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. Oh, what's up? Hey there. You're watching TYT. I'm Anna Casperian. Joining me is Nando Vila, not only co-hosting today on TYT, but also the co-hosts of weekends on Jacobin.

which, of course, takes place on the weekend every Saturday at 10 a.m. Pacific time, 1 p.m. Eastern. Please check that out. You can subscribe by going to YouTube.com slash Jacobin Mag. Nando, how you doing? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Fresh off another fun debate. Just I'm invigorated by, you know, just high-minded democratic debate. It's just, I love it. It was so high-minded. So high-minded. Yeah, I, yeah, we talked about a little bit before the show started. We both agreed that Biden did pretty well last night, relatively speaking. And it was not a great night for Trump. So you should watch our debate coverage. If you missed it last night, I'm not talking to you, Nando, I'm talking to the rest of the audience. But it was, it was an interesting night. I'm not going to lie, I was drinking whiskey while watching. It just, it makes everything easier. Right? Like I know my limit. So it's not like I'm wasted or anything like that, but it definitely makes the whole process more enjoyable. So that's what happened last night. Real quick note about

our sponsor aspiration and then we'll move on to some interesting news regarding Bernie Sanders. He's at the top of our rundown today. I love it. It's a good story. But well, there might be a little bit of debate, who knows, but it's about a position in Biden's cabinet. Does it make sense for Bernie to serve in this position. We'll have that discussion. But first, aspiration. After the elections, we will randomly select four winners to join Jank, Jank Yugar, in a private panel discussion about the elections. All you have to do to qualify in this contest is be an active aspiration card member. So if you have already signed up for an aspiration account, you're good to go, you don't have to do anything. You might be one of the four names randomly chosen.

However, if you haven't opened up an account, you want more information about this competition, just go to aspiration.com slash t-y-t, where you will get all of the info you need. Now, with that said, we have lots of news to get to, and I want to start off with that Bernie story that I teased. So let's discuss. Senator Bernie Sanders is hoping to serve in Biden's cabinet as Labor Secretary, and That's according to reporting from Politico. Now, Bernie Sanders has not confirmed or denied this report, which means it's probably true. But here's what we know so far based on a source who's close to Senator Sanders. I can confirm he's trying to figure out how to land that role

or something like it. He personally does have interest in it. Again, Sanders declined to confirm or deny that he's putting his name forward for this position. Now, Sanders has been making his push for the top job at the Labor Department, in part by reaching out to allies on the transition team, one person familiar with the process said. When asked about Sanders' potential role, a spokesperson for Biden's transition team repeated the transition stock line that they are not making any personnel decisions pre-election. But as we know, in a story that we shared with you earlier this week. Biden is open to having Republicans serve in his cabinet. John Kasich is currently being vetted as a potential pick. We don't know exactly which role he would be chosen

for. There are other Republicans that were named. We don't know if they're going to be chosen for Biden's cabinet for sure, but we do know that they're at least being vetted and considered. So I think it only makes sense that we have some progressive representation in Biden's cabinet as well. One person close to Sanders agreed that Sanders sees an opportunity to achieve long-held policy goals for the working class under Biden, adding, he really does believe Biden wants to be a Roosevelt-like president. And this is where I want to bring you in, Nando.

What do you think about that statement? Because, I mean, we had a very frank discussion about strategy on last week's episode of weekends for Jacobin, we were we were talking about the, you know, debate between Brianna Joy Gray and Noam Chomsky about whether or not it makes sense to vote for Biden. You know, we both kind of fell in the position of you should vote for Biden, why make things harder than it needs to be when you want to push for change in the country. But we also accepted that the likelihood of Biden moving to the left is unlikely. You know, it's going to be incredibly difficult. And when you consider his message of unity, which is, you know,

trying to draw bipartisan support, which includes Republicans, it just, I think it's a little naive to think he's going to move to positions that we really want him to move to. But do you think with Bernie in his cabinet serving as labor secretary, he would be able to have the influence necessary to move Biden to the left on incredibly important labor issues? So Biden is not a committed ideologue, if that makes sense. Biden is very much a bellwether of kind of where the mainstream political environment is at any time. Like, I'm reading a book now about the 1970s, and Biden is a major character throughout it. And he was basically just kind of swept up in the currents of the time, which was basically the sort of hard right shift.

And Biden went along right with it. But then, you know, as soon as Obama got in, you know, he was just kind of, he had kind of made his peace with like a sort of version of Obamaism, this kind of enlightened neoliberalism. It's just it's he's he's not a committed ideologue. And it is true that the, that the ideological basis of the Democratic Party base has shifted dramatically to the left in recent years. It is also true that there is. a more pernicious influence of the donor class on the Democratic Party, it is a conflict, and Biden is just kind of in the middle of it. So I think that it's important. It's one of the reasons why I think it is important for Bernie to try to get in there in some way. If he is in there, you might see a sort of very schizophrenic Biden administration. Like I don't think that on issues of on like foreign policy, for example, like he won't do anything that's not just kind your standard American Empire building. But on issues around the economy, there might be some movement.

It's just the scale of the economic crisis is so vast and deep that even some upper-middle class people and some upper-class people are thinking like something pretty drastic has to happen. And for Bernie to get in there as Labor Secretary, I mean, the Department of Labor is one of these federal bureaucracies and departments that probably has more power. lying around than people realize. You never hear about it because lately it's just filled with these kind of hacks that, you know, that don't really, you know, do anything. But Bernie would be the most famous labor secretary ever. I mean, there would be people watching,

like the day to day goings on at the Department of Labor. And Bernie is able to rally popular support for things himself. So you can imagine that department sort of having a lot of independent power. I mean, Bernie would have to be very careful about how he managed it. Because if you went like, you know, if he pissed off Biden too much, you probably get fired, although it would be hard for Biden to fire someone like Bernie just because he is so popular. And there would be like demonstrations and things like that if that were to happen. I mean, people don't realize this like, FDR's Labor Secretary was a woman named Francis Perkins. She was there basically the entire time FDR was in power. She was there from 1933 to 1945

was the Secretary of Labor, and she was absolutely key in sort of implementing the day-to-day of the New Deal, you know, running the Civilian Conservation Corps, implementing Social Security, unemployment insurance, all these things. Like, if there would have been some, like, pro-business hack the way there is now and the way there has been for a long time at the Department of Labor, the New Deal would have just been much harder. Like, it's not just legislation that passes and then stuff happens. Like, there has to be sort of civil servants in positions of power to actually implement these things. So Bernie in there, I find it just to be like a very interesting prospect to see what he would do as Secretary of Labor.

So there are some potential downsides to this happening. And I want to get to that in just a second. But first, I want to read a member comment from Cousin Vinnie. And thank you for writing in Cousin Vinny. He writes in and says, I think he, meaning Biden, does want to be like FDR, whether he's able to give his policy stances is debatable. But I do believe he wants his legacy to be getting America back on track. You know, there was a little bit of a hint to kind of buttress your point because recently Biden did roll out his policy in regard to coronavirus and what he would do to tackle this very serious public health issue while also creating jobs, which of course are necessary as more and more Americans are getting laid off in the economic fallout due to the

pandemic. And what he did was invoke FDR strategies from the New Deal in this plan. Now, of course, candidates put out all sorts of proposals as they're running for any position in government and then whether or not they actually pursue it. That's like the big question after they get elected. And so I like the messaging. I don't know how serious he is about it. But I just thought it was interesting how he really wanted to emphasize this FDR-like approach toward this public health issue that we're dealing with right now. Nando, what were your thoughts on that? Like, were you buying it at all? Or do you think it's just some posturing to appease progressive voters? You know, it's hard to know. I mean, we don't have any method of disciplining our politicians. We don't

have any method of like kind of holding them to account. I mean, once they get in, they're in for four years. And so there's no, there's no, there's a huge incentive to basically lie to the voters is essentially the long and the short of it. But, you know, I think that I get the sense that the scale of the economic crisis is so big that there is, that there will be appetite to do something big. You know, the question is what and what that is. And, you know, that's That's why I like the idea of Bernie getting in there because, like, you know, you trust him. You know, you trust him implicitly.

You don't think that he's going to sell out, you know, like he, you don't think that he's going to do something horrible the way other people have. So, and Biden is, like I said, he's not, he's not a committed ideologue. Like he's not a, I don't know, like, Amy Klobuchar to me strikes me as like a committed ideologue. And Biden is just isn't that guy. He's more of a weather vein. He's more of a politician. So it really will depend on what pressure is applied to him. Do you remember the name of the author that Michael Brooks interviewed? The author had written a book about Joe Biden and his entire career. And I don't know how I'm saying. Branco Marchettich. Yes, that's who it is.

I thought that was such an enlightening. Yes, from Jacobin. It's such a enlightening interview. And I've been meeting to read his book because it just really details the influences in Biden's political career. And what you just described is absolutely correct based on this author and this writer. And he had really carefully studied Biden's political career from beginning to where he is today. And I just thought it is interesting how malleable Biden can be. And I think that could be a good sign. It really can be a good sign. The question is, who's going to have more influence? Is it going to be the donor class and, you know, these never Trump Republicans or can progressives organize effectively enough

to push him in the other direction? So we'll see. And so now let's talk a little bit about what the downsides, potential downsides could be if Bernie Sanders decides to serve in Biden's cabinet, if he gets chosen to serve as labor secretary. So as we know, he's a senator out of Vermont, It's important to have Democratic senators right now. But Vermont governor, Phil Scott, is a Republican. He'd be able to appoint a temporary successor to his Senate seat. Unlike governors in other states who get to appoint successors to carry out the rest of the term, Scott would be required under Vermont law to hold a special election within six months of the seat becoming vacant. But even allowing Scott the opportunity to Phil Sanders' seat with the GOP lawmaker, in the short term could potentially affect control of the Senate, depending on the results of November's election. So do you think that that's worth the risk, Nando? Well, I don't know the internal workings of Vermont politics. I'm assuming Bernie does very well, and I'm assuming if Bernie is lobbying for this position, I think he, again, like I said,

I trust Bernie, maybe that's naive of me, but I trust Bernie's political instincts. I think he's a very good politician. And, you know, if he feels that, first, there's a, there's an election, I believe, for Vermont governor right now. So it could be that a Democrat wins. Maybe Bernie knows something we don't there. But also, I think Bernie's probably confident in his ability to sort of rally the voters of Vermont to basically vote for his successor in six months' time. Like, it is true that, yeah, it would be a shame to have one less Democrat in the early phases of the Biden presidency, like, you know, in the first few months or whatever. But But I mean, I'm guessing, I just like I said, I trust Bernie.

So in terms of Vermont politics, which I'm not an expert in, if I'm sure he knows it better than I do. And if he is indeed lobbying for this position, I'm sure he's taken that into account. He's been in the Senate for a long time. He understands how it works. He understands how the institution works. I'm sure he's taken that factor into account. It's not like he, you know, it's like, oh wait, I forgot.

There's not going to be a Democratic senator, you know, like I'm sure he's taken that. He's weighed that downside. Two, one other thing though that I think is worth mentioning. So if he remains in the Senate, and I think we should see this as a good thing, because regardless of where Bernie ends up, he's going to have increased power, which I personally want, increased influence. And so if he remains in the Senate, he's poised to become the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. It's pretty big deal.

And the Senate subcommittee on health. And that's if Democrats take over the Senate following November's election. So I want to learn more and I want specific details on what he can do as Labor Secretary. Based on what I know now, I think I personally prefer him in the Senate, especially when he has the opportunity to become the chairman of these incredibly important committees. But we should explore it more. We're going to interview Richard Wolfe tomorrow on our show weekends for Jacobin. And I want to ask him about this because I'm really curious to see what he has to say about it. You know, Nathan Robinson did a tweet storm where he talked about like the importance

of having Bernie in the Senate because it allows him to be to remain independent and be like an independent critic of Biden and that if he's in the administration, he wouldn't be able to like come out and say like, you know, whatever Biden just did in Venezuela or whatever is like some awful thing. Like he just, he would have to be much more careful about the way he handles that. And that's 100% true. I understand that. I think that the contra that I would say to that is that there is been a rise of independent

left media. You know, so the singular voice of Bernie is not as crucial as it may have been five years ago. And then the other thing is that for there to be any meaningful left power in this country at any in any conceivable way, even modest reforms, we need a revitalized labor movement. It's such a precondition for any social change in America, and anywhere, really. I mean, look at the Bolivian election. The New Deal happened because there was a large and organized working class in labor movement. And, you know, it's not surprised that the Department of Labor, which was started under Woodrow Wilson, about, you know, 20 years before the New Deal, really helped the labor movement kind of establish itself and really gain a solid foothold.

in American life. You know, the first labor secretaries were all union leaders. They all came out, like the first labor secretary ever was like a minor, you know, who came up through the union movement. And it just, we haven't had someone like that in the Department of Labor for a long time. And so Bernie in there, you could imagine him really, really pushing some very large unionization movement, whether it be like at somewhere like Amazon. Like, can you imagine what it be if Amazon got unionized?

I mean, it would be a total game changer. Or, you know, Walmart is the largest employer in America, like famously anti-union. You know, like if you have someone like Bernie at the Department of Labor, like actively working with workers at those companies to unionize, like it could be a huge source of power down the road. You know, like, yes, Bernie coming out and talking about, you know, the awful thing Biden just did, that's important as well. But really, you need a sort of solid base of power And that does not happen without a large and organized working class. And someone in there like Bernie at the Department of Labor could be the seeds of a revitalized labor movement.

All right. Well, tell us what you guys think in our members section, in the comments section. Very curious to hear what you guys have to say about this story. Can already see a little bit of disagreement among our members. So we'll read some of those comments when we come back from the break. And when we come back from the break, we'll discuss AOC, snapping right back at Donald Trump and his statements about her during last night's debate. We need to talk about a relatively new show called Un-F-The-Republic or UNFTR.

As a Young Turks fan, you already know that the government, the media, and corporations are constantly peddling lies that serve the interests of the rich and powerful. But now there's a podcast dedicated to unraveling those lies, debunking the conventional wisdom. In each episode of Un-B-The-Republic, or UNFTR, the host delves into a different historical episode or topic that's generally misunderstood

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So search for UNFDR in your podcast. today and get ready to get informed, angered, and entertained, all at the same time. Come right back. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to TYT, Anna and Nando with you. Just a few programming notes and we'll move on to the rest of the news. So tomorrow, TYT is hosting a watch party on our Twitch channel for the documentary. Gasland with commentary with the writer and director Josh Fox. So you guys should totally check that

out. Gasland received an Academy Award nomination for Best Documentary Feature. And Josh Fox picked up an Emmy Award for Outstanding Directing for Nonfiction Programming. So you can watch on Friday, October 23rd. I think that's actually today, not tomorrow. My bad. Friday, October 23rd at 8.30 p.m. Eastern Time, 5.30 p.m. Pacific. And the Twitch channel is Twitch. t-y-y-t. Also, tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern Time, 5 p.m. Pacific, you can tune in to watch Bernie Sanders Unity Rally. So it is the Progressive Unity Town Hall featuring Senator Bernie Sanders, and it's hosted by Progressives for Biden Harris. You can watch on Facebook.com slash t-y-t. All right, lots of fun stuff. And a few member comments just because I promised. And there's a diversity of opinion

when it comes to Bernie Sanders serving as Labor Secretary in a Biden presidency. So CJ says Bernie for Labor Secretary would be awesome. Remember how in the Obama administration, Rahm Emanuel told move on slash progressives to F off. Putting Bernie on the cabinet is a huge step forward, Leroy, not Jenkins, says no matter who wins, no matter who wins, we need to figure out a way to make them react to progressives. It feels like we're always playing defense. That is, okay, I was trying to make that statement to Nando right before we had to come back. The most frustrating part of democratic campaigning is how they always allow themselves to play defense rather than playing offense. Like you guys should be the ones throwing out

the attacks, especially when you're dealing with this target rich environment, you know, with all these Republican goons. David Sursa says, I think Bernie should not give up his seat in the Senate. If Biden is the president of the United States, then Bernie is better to be heard on the Ways and Means Committee or the equivalent in the Senate. I hear you. You know, there are upsides and downsides to both options. And super chat from Lars Nielsen. If my interpretation of Nando's bookshelf is correct, that means he's a Russian puppet. Russia Gate was not a hoax. I don't know what that means. I have Boris Yeltsin. Oh, oh, I see, I see. Do you have the babushkas? Gorbachev. You know, I have all the heads of state over here, my supreme leaders.

So Nando like shot a few episodes of weekends with an empty book, well, empty bookshelves behind him because he was staying in someone else's home. And now I feel like they're traumatized. Now you always have a full bookshelf right behind you when we're doing shows. They bookshamed me. They said I was like not a smart person. I don't even read books. All I do is, you know, watch Netflix all day or something, you know. Listen, I'm not the brightest bulb there is, but I read books every once in a while. Come on. Get out of here. Come on, man. Come on, man. Come on, man. I know. So good. Okay, okay.

We got to get to the rest of the news. So let's talk about a moment from the debate last night that AOC did not like. Donald Trump decided to go after Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez during his final debate with Joe Biden. But as always, the popular congresswoman snapped back and put him in his place. So here's Donald Trump talking about. about AOC in regard to the Green New Deal. This was his way of not only attacking her, but also attacking Joe Biden. Let's see how it went down.

AOC plus three. They know nothing about the climate. I mean, she's got a good line of stuff, but she knows nothing about the climate. And they're all hopping through hoops for AOC plus three. Look, a real plan costs $100 trillion. If we had the best year in the history of our country for 100 years, we would not even come close to a number like that. When he says buildings, they want to take buildings down

because they want to make bigger windows into smaller windows. As far as they're concerned, if you had no window, it would be a lovely thing. This is the craziest plan that anybody has ever seen. And this wasn't done by smart people. This wasn't done by anybody, frankly, I don't even know how it can be good politically. They want to spend $100 trillion.

That's their real number. He's trying to say it was six. It's $100 trillion. They want to knock down buildings and build new buildings with little, tiny, small windows. And many other things. And many other things. Let me have the vice president respond. And we're running out of time and we have a lot more questions to get to.

So let's hear from the vice president. I have a number of more questions. I don't know where he comes from. I don't know where he comes up with these numbers. $100 trillion. Give me a break. This plan was, this is planned endorsed by every major, every major environment. group and every labor group.

So, as you can imagine, AOC didn't like that comment. But you know, you know these Democrats. They don't like broken windows. They don't even like any windows. They would eliminate all windows. That's what these Democrats would do. So ridiculous. Do we know where that comes from?

No, no idea. What like fringe right wing blog, you know, came up with that. It's just I don't know where that comes from. It's like the weird. Yeah, but this is what I'm talking about when I say play offense. They make up the most ridiculous accusations imaginable. So why don't Democrats play ball? All right, you're going to accuse us of like dumb things like trying to eliminate windows and buildings. I don't know. Acute, you don't even have to make things up. That's the problem. Like, again, Trump is a target rich environment. One person who seems to understand that is Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. It'd be wonderful to see her debate some of these Republican goons. soon. And she says it's actually AOC plus 115 because that's how many House and Senate members have co-sponsored the most ambitious climate legislation in American history. I'm so deeply proud of and grateful of each and every one of the House and Senate colleagues who stand for our future and champion the Green New Deal, the boldest climate plan in U.S. history. And if you

look at her first tweet, I mean, it got more than 350,000. thousand likes, it was insane. And Jamal Bowman also chimed in on this and says, there's more than three, as we know now. And then Cory Bush also took part in this conversation and said, AOC plus three, hate to break it to you. But it's not about to be, but it's about to be a lot more than three. Actually, I don't hate to break it to you. And she also says, no matter who occupies the White House, we need progressive champions in the people's house, join. us today. And so just to give you guys some actual statistics and some polling on the Green New Deal and where Americans stand on that type of robust environmental policy, a 2019 survey conducted

on behalf of 350 action and data for progress found that the Green New Deal summarized as policies that would transition the United States economy from fossil fuels to clean energy sources and drive job-creating investments in infrastructure and communities was supported by 50 percent of the nation's voters, while only 28% opposed it. More recent polling done last month by The Guardian and Vice revealed that a growing share of the United States favors stronger climate policies. 70% of voters back government action to address the climate crisis. Three-quarters want the United States to generate all of its electricity for renewable sources by 2035, and almost two-thirds reported being more likely to pick a candidate who favors a complete

shift from dirty to clean energy. So as much as conservatives want to pretend as though the Green New Deal is some crazy fringe policy suggestion, the truth is more and more Americans, probably because they're dealing with extreme weather conditions, do want something to change when it comes to our energy dependency on fossil fuels. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty obvious that clean environment, clean water, clean air is all very popular. Good jobs is very popular. Unionized jobs, very popular. All these things are very, very popular. And it kind of drives me crazy sometimes when people have like a hyper obsession with polling on any specific issue. Like I mean, this comes up a lot when talking about fracking, right? Where like, you know, a poll came out recently after the

last debate in which like it showed how like a lot of Democrats don't support a ban on fracking or whatever. But that's only because they under, they're Democrats and they filtered it through the partisan lens. And they understand that because like it's become an issue in the campaign that they have to go to their side and they're backing their leaders. But like at the end of the day, all of this stuff, all of like the sort of vague ideas around helping the environment while improving working conditions and housing conditions in this country, all of that is popular. Like, and Democratic leaders need to understand this. Like when you do things that help people's lives, they become popular.

If you're only just kind of like trying to read the tea leaves on any individual issue and see where the polling is exactly at, like the polling moves a lot wildly on these things depending on how leadership reacts to them and how it gets filtered through the partisan lens. But at the end of the day, fundamentally to understand that things like the Green New Deal, which would improve people's lives and make them have better jobs and would give people clean air, water, security, all these things that people, every single person always ever in the history of mankind in any society is always wanted, are popular.

So yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, the question is, how do you get, how do you get? I think Democratic lawmakers and Republican lawmakers know this is true. Republican lawmakers have always been super cozy with the fossil fuel industry. Of course, the fossil fuel industry also donates. to a lesser extent to democratic lawmakers. The question is, how do we get them to move away from that type of donor funding? Because they know, they know that it's popular. That's the reason why Biden put out, you know, he is supportive of the Green New Deal, but decided to put out

his own policy because the Green New Deal became so toxic for the donor class, right? So let me rebrand it into something that might be a little more palatable to my donors. I think that's what Biden's doing. And of course, to be fair, his plan is not nearly as robust as the Green New Deal would be. But it's not terrible. I mean, he certainly would be far better for the environment than Donald Trump would be. Donald Trump has done everything in his power to roll back what little environmental protections were passed under the Obama administration. But there's so many popular policy proposals by progressives that get ignored by corporate Democrats all the time. And it's because they're literally paid not to support them. That's

why money in politics is such a toxic component of our political system. No, and the partisan nature of things. I mean, I think this is what, you know, whenever you saw like some poll, this was like a very kind of early 2000s things. You saw some poll, it's like, oh my God, 75% of Republican voters think climate change is fake, you know. And that That misunderstands how these things flow. Like this, that's, that's kind of getting Republican lawmakers off the hook saying it like flows from the bottom up, you know, as a sort of like, this is just a thing that Republican voters believe, therefore the Republican politicians sort of do that.

No, and so because people can't take cues from their leadership, like the people sort themselves out into like kind of teams and tribes and then they take cues from their leadership, you know, and they understand that in America, climate change became a partisan issue for whatever reason, for the reasons of the donors and the thing and the fossil fuel industry, buying off the thing. You know, but the voters kind of sort themselves out into those things and then it flows from the top down on those things. And broadly speaking with something like climate change, if you're asking voters whether they would want to take a haircut essentially to, you know, improve some vague idea called climate change, most people say no. But

if you, the genius of the Green New Deal is tying climate change to an improvement in people's lives, which is something that everyone wants, whether you're a problem, Public, black, green, brown, red, whatever. You know, like every single person wants. It's jobs. You tie it to jobs. Better housing, security, all those things. Like, when you push it, like, the genius of the American kind of anti-climate movement

has been to push any climate change thing onto regular people and the costs of it onto regular people. And then you see people revolt. You know, it's why people are so angry about the plastic straws because it's like it feeling like, you know, really like it's the people in power and rich people. They're the people that are causing climate change, but they're asking me to take a haircut while they're getting richer and richer and richer and richer and richer. You know, that's not how that works.

Yeah, that's such a great point. All right, well, let's move on to what Mike Pompeo is up to. I know that he hasn't been making a lot of news, but he's just as awful as before. So the Trump administration is considering labeling groups like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Oxfam as anti-Semitic organizations. Why? Well, Mike Pompeo is looking to run for president in the future, and he thinks that this might actually help him with certain hardliners on Israel.

So Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is reported in Politico, is pushing for the declaration, according to a congressional aid with contacts inside the State Department. Pompeo is eyeing a future presidential run and has taken a number of steps to gain favor with pro-Israel and evangelical voters who make up a key. part of Trump's electoral base. So a former State Department official with contacts on the inside confirmed the basics of the declaration and said it could be released shortly. The declaration is expected to take the form of a report from the office of Elon Carr, the U.S. Special Envoy to monitor and combat anti-Semitism. It would declare that it is the United States policy

not to support such groups, including financially, even though the government doesn't financially support these groups anyway, and urge other governments to cease their support. And look, the accusations against these organizations is that they're anti-Semitic because they have the audacity to call out the Israeli government, okay? It's very different from just calling out Israeli people. The Israeli government and its decision to continue building settlements in Palestinian territory. That is a criticism that many people have, unfortunately in some cases, if you voice that criticism, you get called anti-Semitic.

What Mike Pompeo is doing here is purely political for personal gain, and it's absolutely disgusting because these organizations are not in any way anti-Semitic. In fact, they don't back the BDS movement, which is what they're being accused of here. The report would cite such groups alleged or perceived support of the boycott divestment and sanctions movement, which has targeted Israel over its construction of settlements on land Palestinians claim for a future state. The groups named also do not all officially support the BDS movement or take a position on it, but they have all been critical to one degree or another of Israel's settlement policies

and its treatment of the Palestinians and pro-Israel organizations have claimed that the group's actions nonetheless constitute support for the movement and are thus anti-Semitic. Look, I'm not part of the BDS movement, right? But I believe in free speech. And so they're allowed to practice their political activity like that. We're supposed to have protections for that. And it's just ridiculous that, oh, well, I support the Israeli government no matter what. And so as a result, I'm gonna go after government or not government, non-government organizations, NGOs, for not taking a hardline anti-BDS movement approach. But, and look, to be fair, there are some State Department lawyers who are speaking out and

they're saying, well, this does violate people's First Amendment rights, like this is ridiculous. So I don't know, I don't know what's going to end up happening with this, but it's just more of the same from the Trump administration. Well, it's also hard to overstate just how thoroughly mainstream these organizations are. Like human rights watch is not some, you know, radical left kind of anti-system organization. Like human rights watch like has actually been criticized a lot from the left for being for like being kind of like a state department tool in any, like, sort of an instrument for soft power and empire. Like it's not some sort of, yeah, they're not like, you know, radical lefty underground types. They're incredibly mainstream, thoroughly embedded within the sort of U.S. foreign policy establishment. So like it just shows just how

radicalized the discourse around Israel has become in this country in certain circles. I mean, the settlements are a flagrant violation of international law. It's like uncontroversial to say this in any other part of the world. I mean, it is just, it is just an obvious and flagrant violation of international law. But it's gotten to the point where any sort of muted, light, criticism of the settlements, or even just silence on on the support for the settlements, has become evidence of like crypto-ante-Semitism or whatever. And it's just, it's crazy. It's crazy that we gotten to this point. I mean, it's hard to overstate just how, how dramatically this, this, this debate has shifted to the right in, in the last 10 years or so. This was not the case

at all. I mean, there used to be sort of a broad international consensus around, you know, a two-state solution and a thing. And like, even that now is just, is out the window and, and, you know, these mainstream. I know, it's great. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, in fact, Oxfam released a statement in response to this. Oxfam does not support BDS or call for the boycott of Israel or any other country. Oxfam and our Israeli and Palestinian partners have worked on the ground for decades to promote human rights and provide life-saving support for Israeli and Palestinian communities. We stand by our long history of work, protecting the lives, human rights, and futures of all Israelis and Palestinians.

So this, again, this move by Pompeo once it gets declared. It hasn't officially happened yet. is nothing more than a political move, again, to enrich his own political career. He sees this as a way to appeal to certain groups of people who might help him on his path to victory as a Republican president, God forbid. But there's no actual substance to these accusations. And it's just, it's disgusting because what have we heard from conservatives in America, especially people like Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin. Oh, well, you know, you know how all these lefties are. If they don't like you, they'll just label you a racist. If they don't like you, they'll just label you a sexist. If they don't like you, label you all sorts of names,

homophobic, transphobic. And it's not true, it's not true as they say homophobic, transphobic, sexist, racist, racist things over and over again. But in this case, they're accusing these organizations of being anti-Semitic with absolutely no evidence, no proof, no substance behind those accusations. So where are the free speech conservatives right now? Are you saying, Anna, that those people are acting in bad faith? Oh my goodness, that is just shocking. I know.

But to be clear, like supporting BDS does not make you an anti-Semite. Even if you do, like these organizations don't even support it, don't even support that. But even if they did, it would not constitute anti-Semitism. in any meaningful way. Yeah, I agree with you on that. My decision to not be part of that is, like, I have my criticism of it, but it's not because it's anti-Semitic. I just think that, first of all, boycott movements don't work.

We had a long discussion about that on our show. But more importantly, the consequences, the unintended consequences and, you know, innocent people who suffer from those kinds of movements, if they're successful enough. I don't agree with that. But I don't think being part of that movement makes you anti-Semitic. I think that it's totally justified to criticize the Israeli government and their aggression against Palestinians. Some people might want to twist that as anti-Semitic, but I just don't think that there's

any substance to that accusation. All right, well, we got to take a break. When we come back, the White House is turning again, and we will tell you. At TYT, we frequently talk about all the ways that big tech companies are taking control of our online lives, constantly monitoring us, and storing. in selling our data, but that doesn't mean we have to let them. It's possible to stay anonymous online and hide your data from the prying eyes of big tech. And one of the best ways is with ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN hides your IP address, making your active ID more difficult

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CA writes in and says, I love Nando. I want to adopt him with a Canadian flag. And that might be your ticket out of this place. So I don't know. Thank you. Thank you for that salvation. I needed it. Dude, okay. So you get you get hit on in like the comment sections all the time. Like all the time. Everyone's constantly telling you how good you look. Just give him my number. Give them all my number. Tom to text me. I'm gonna call me. Imitation Asian says, said it yesterday and I'll say it again today.

Trump, simps for AOC just loves talking about her and her good lines. What's that? I don't know that young person lingo. What does that mean? I don't know what's it means. I didn't want to admit it, but. Brad, do you know what it means? Whatever.

Zimp is like you, you're a white knight coming to their rescue. They're like, oh, God, and oh God. You're just like kind of obsessed in this like, in this very transparent way that you're like, I hope she sees you king. Okay. I can't. I think we're so old. I remember when people would refer to me as mom and I thought it was an insult.

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All right, one more story before we end the main show and move on to our postgame, become a member. Go to tYT.com slash join. Health and Human Services Chief Alex Azar is awful. And he wants to fire the FDA commissioner, Stephen Hahn, for refusing to roll out an unsafe and untested coronavirus vaccine, which would in theory help Donald Trump get reelected. So it looks like there's a little bit of drama in the White House, more drama, which is something you can usually expect. And you know what else you can expect? Another segment of as the White House turns. made some very big mistakes. I asked for his resignation. I'm disappointed in the attorney general. So we keep hearing Donald Trump tease the release of a vaccine very, very soon. Well, Alex Azar has vented

to his allies within the Health and Human Services Department about his unhappiness with Stephen Hahn, the top official in charge of the vaccine process, and discuss the prospect of seeking White House permission to remove him and a half dozen current and former administration, and this is according to what a half dozen current and former administration officials have told Politico. So it seems like there's been a rivalry between them. So this could be about more than the release of a vaccine. Azar suspected that FDA officials were serving as the source of damaging stories about the department and its coronavirus response. He grew irritated over a perception that Han often dealt directly with the White House, bypassing his immediate

supervisors at HHS. Nando, even in government, we have that professional managerial class drama. Oh yeah. Yeah, going way over his head, you know, going straight to the president. I mean, All this stuff, yeah, seriously. I mean, all this stuff, I mean, it's it's, it's, it's fun to laugh at just how incompetent and petty and leaky this administration has always been. It's like, you know, the massive turnover. Like they can't keep anyone in any job for more than like three or four months. But it is also like one of the more compelling arguments for voting for Biden is just like a basic handling of things like the approvals for a vaccine. Like, he's, like, he's just. Can you imagine, can you imagine if like some Trump ghoul is in charge of like approving a vaccine? Like I would just like I would become an anti-vaxxer. Like I would become like one of these like cranks in Santa Monica. Yeah, but like that's the, like that's a, it is a huge problem because reasonable people

who are not anti-vaxxers are gonna be incredibly skeptical of anything coming out of the FDA under Trump's so called leadership. I mean, he has politicized everything, rightfully so, exactly. He has politicized everything and we know that he has no problem risking the lives of others if it means that he can get an upper hand in his agenda, his political goals, his financial goals, whatever it is. So I know that if a vaccine were to come out like next week, and I'm not trying to discourage people from vaccinations, but just understand what I'm saying. He's just not, he's not a good person. He's selfish and has no problem putting others at risk.

So if something were to come out next week, yeah, it would be super skeptical about it. And I would, I don't know what I would do in terms of like giving people advice on whether or not they should take that vaccine. You need to have people in government that you can trust with public safety and health. And we don't have that right now. Yeah, I mean, it is one of the more disorienting things about this time. time in our country is that like, you know, everyone's been suffering through the coronavirus pandemic, wherever in the world. But certain countries have kind of handled it okay. And there's a sense of like we're all in this together. And, you know, the government more or less is trying

its best to figure it out and they may make mistakes and all that stuff. But here, it is just this kind of chaotic war between people who just do not trust each other and do not trust the people in power. Even like the thing is even on some level, even Trump's hardest supporters like wouldn't trust the information coming out from the White House. Like on some deep level, they don't, they don't really trust it either. So yeah, it is just it's. I like that you brought that up because I have, I have a neighbor who voted for Trump. He actually is a very lovely guy. He's like one of the nicest neighbors that I have. But what I thought was interesting, and I avoid talking politics with him because I knew he voted for Trump. And I don't want that

to ruin our relationship. We get along really well. Let's just keep it at that. Please, I need a little bit of like calm in my personal life at least. And I noticed that early on in the pandemic, he was wearing a mask. And as he was walking, one of our other neighbors who's also a Trump supporter was like, what do you have on your face? What are you wearing on your face? And he's like, I'm wearing a mask because there's a pandemic and you need to wear a mask to prevent the spread. And, you know, the guy mentioned Trump says this and that. And he's like, yeah, Trump's a moron when it comes to this issue. So I think you're right. I know I'm giving you anecdotal evidence. But like, no, no, no, it's, yeah. It's, I think that it's indicative of, of, like,

just the public consciousness of what works and what doesn't work. And sure, Trump's going to have his hardcore supporters who are going to listen to him no matter what. But I don't think his entire base buys his nonsense regarding the pandemic and what you should and shouldn't do to stay safe. Real quick, Azar has gone as far as to float potential replacements for Han, identifying HHS, testing czar, Brett Girory or whatever his name is, as a pair of his career, civil servants. Anyway, basically, he wants to replace Han, who has been very friendly to Trump. Like he has gone along with Trump. He just refuses to like roll out a vaccine that hasn't been proven yet.

And so Azar's like, you're not enough of a lackey. We're going to try to bring in people who will lick boots even harder and will approve any vaccine regardless of how one safe it is. And that is incredibly damaging and dangerous. We have to go now, but become a member at t.com slash join to get our postgame. See you there. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks, support our work, listen to ad-free, access members-only bonus content, and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.