The Young Turks - TYT's Juneteenth Special - Part 1

Episode Date: June 19, 2021

Part 1: Join hosts Ben Dixon and Jayar Jackson as they discuss the issues impacting the black community the most. Panelists include Bridget Todd, Kenya Evelyn, Dr. James Q Simmons, Dr. Rashad Richey, Jason Carter, Charles Coleman, Wosny Lambre, and Wisdom Cole. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to The Young Turks, the online news show. Make sure to follow and rate our show with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. You're awesome. Thank you. Welcome to the TYT Juneteenth special. I am Benjamin Dixon host of the Benjamin Dixon show here on the TYT network celebrating with African Americans all across the country as we commemorate Juneteenth, which is coming up to June 9th. We are joining this evening, this evening throughout the evening. We are starting a little bit late because of technical difficulties, but we are here and we're ready to jump into it. We're starting tonight with Dr. Carl Mack. I had a pleasure of meeting Dr. Carl Mack Tuesday night as we discussed Juneteenth with Roland Martin on Roland Martin unfiltered. And he brought some information to light for us that I think is really important for us to understand the historical context, the true history around the end of slavery, not just a celebration of Juneteenth. But before I jump to Dr. Hart, I just want to read a couple of things that gives you the history

as we know it, and also bring up the fact that Joe Biden signed into law on Thursday, June 17, 2021. He signed into law, Section 6103, the United States Code, and they are amending it by inserting after the item relating to Memorial Day the following. Juneteenth, National Independence Day, which is June 19th. And that is the declaration that Joe Biden signed into law, creating the federal holiday that is Juneteenth. June 19, 1865 marks the date that Major General Jordan Granger arrived in Galveston, Texas, and announced the end of both the Civil War and quote-unquote slavery. His announcement, General Order number three, reads as follows,

The people of Texas are informed that in accordance with a proclamation from the executive of the United States, all slaves are free. This involves an absolute equality for personal rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves and the connection heretofore existing between them becomes that between employer and hired labor. This is general order number three for Major General Gordon Granger signed June 19th, 1865. That is what we generally use to celebrate Juneteenth. The only issue with it, and this is why I want to bring Dr. Carl Hart in, not Carl Hart, but I'm sorry, Carl Mack, and to speak with us today is because while it's appropriate to celebrate Juneteenth, it's appropriate to do it in the correct historical context. Dr. Mack, thank you so

much for joining us for this Juneteenth special. You and I have been talking extensively since I met you and you brought some new education that I have to admit, I did not know that Juneteenth, as we celebrated, is not what it seems to be. It's not what we are generally told about June 19th, which we're generally told that it marks the end of slavery, but based on research that you've done, along with other scholars, June 19th is not the end of chattel slavery in the United States of America, even if it's something that it's okay to commemorate. Tell me your thoughts about Juneteen. Well, you know, again, and Brother Dixon, thank you so much for inviting me on again, and it's been an absolute pleasure to meet and get to know you, my brother, much love. So again,

And, you know, when I was taught about Juneteenth and generally the people I speak to, most of my folks would agree that what we learned, what we learned was that those of our ancestors who were enslaved in Galveston, Texas, when General Granger came in, issued General Order No. 3, they were the last blacks enslaved. And furthermore, the story is that they got the news about their freedom. They were held in bondage two and a half years after Lincoln had freed them. And those comments were echoed yesterday, sadly, my sister that we're all very proud of, our vice president, Vice President Harris, which made the statement that they got the news two and a half years late. So when you understand the Civil War and what happened, the notion that they got the news two and a half years late is just, it's folklore. It's folklore. It's just not the way that you describe that. And so the reason I'm saying that family is I need you to understand

this. Imagine that the prime minister of Canada tries to tell the citizens of the United States what to do. He has no authorization. So when you Go back to 1861, really go back to 1860 when South Carolina seceded from the Union. But when those 11 states seceded from the Union, they formed their own nation. They elected a president, Jefferson Davis. They elected a vice president, Alexander Stevens of Georgia. They had their Congress. They wrote a constitution. So they were their own nation. They viewed themselves as their own nation. So if they viewed themselves as their own nation, how do you think they took what Lincoln said? They didn't care what Lincoln said and make no bones about this.

When they left the union, they left the union to protect slavery. And when you read, there's a speech given by Alexander Stevens, the vice president, on March 21st, 1861 in Savannah, Georgia. And that speech called the Cornerstone Speech. And in that speech, he tells you that the reason they left the union is all about African slavery as it exists among them the proper status of the Negro in their form of civilization. When you go and you look at all the letters of secession, and me being from Mississippi, if you look at the Mississippi letter of secession, Mississippi it tells you without any ambiguity, we left the union because of slavery. You go back and read any of the letters of secession, they all will tell you, even if you go back and read

newspapers, old clips, what was going on around that time in 1861. Everyone knew that it was about slavery. So when our vice president yesterday stood and took the podium, she said this, and I want to quote her exactly what she said. She said, yes, on that day, the enslaved people of Galveston, Texas, learned that they were free. But in fact, two and a half years earlier, January 1st, 1863, the Emancipation Proclamation ended slavery and the Confederacy. So if you just think of what I just said to you, if the Confederate states formed their own nation, had their own president, their own vice president, their own constitution, what did you, what do you think? think an executive order from Lincoln met. It meant nothing. And this is why that war had to be fought. See, it took military force to free our ancestors. I want you to imagine that on January 1st,

1863, Lincoln releases the Emancipation Proclamation, because he actually issued it on September 22nd, 1862. And he gave those 11 states 100 days to get in order. Now, the other thing you got to remember about the Emancipation Proclamation, it's three things that it did. Number one, it declared that our ancestors enslaved in those states in rebellion against the Union are now free. The other thing it did, it said to the four border states, Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky, and Delaware, since you didn't succeed, slavery is still good there. And this is going to be very important family. And then the third thing it did, which people simply overlooked, it now allowed black men to enlist in the union forces and for us as a people to fight for our freedom. So those are the three things

that the Emancipation Proclamation did. And so people get twisted about that part. But we have to remember is those four states that were border states, there was a fifth state that joined the border states, and that was West Virginia. Because when Virginia succeeded, from the union, there were 48 counties in West Virginia that said, look, we're pro-slavery, fam, but we ain't about this secession thing. So those eight counties apply for statehood, and they became a state. And so before the Civil War ended, Maryland, Missouri, West Virginia, they all, as a state, they all voted to abolish slavery. Let me jump in there and ask you, I'm sorry, go ahead, to finish that. But per the

emancipation proclamation, slavery was still legal in Kentucky and Delaware, and it was still practice. So after the Civil War ended, and the Civil War ended on April 9, 1865, Appomatics, is where it ended. Two months later, Granger goes into Galveston, finds our brothers and sisters enslaved, issues the general order, which now becomes June 10th. On June 20th, in the state of Delaware and Kentucky combined. There were over 225,000 of our ancestors still enslaved. So the myth that these were the last blacks enslaved, it just isn't true. We want to say they got the word late two and a half years later. Family, it wouldn't have to not if they got the word that day. Right, right. Let's unpack that. You gave us a lot of history there. And that's why I, I, I, I, I, I,

really appreciate the work that you've done. Let's start with the Emancipation Proclamation again. That was the verbal declaration that slavery was over, but the reality of it is that slavery didn't end the United States until the passage of the 13th Amendment. So as we celebrate the end of slavery, it's not Juneteenth, which is, and you're totally fine with Juneteenth. We've talked, you've celebrated June 10th. I'm going to celebrate Juneteenth tomorrow.

So we're not knocking on Juneteenth, but we're speaking about the historical accuracy as it comes from the highest levels of power in this country, from the White House, from the vice president, from the Congress and the Senate. And one of the reasons so many people have gotten it wrong for so long is that this is not the first time the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate have gotten the history wrong as it pertains to Juneteenth. I have a couple of graphics here that you sent over our way. And the first one is from the 105th Congress on Juneteen. This is from the Senate. And this is from Senator Trent Lott, who said, tell us about the quote from the 105th Congress that makes the first time we see it as a mistake. And I believe it was 1997 that this mistake showed up.

Tell us about that. So, again, the movement to get Juneteenth recognized as a national holiday has been going on for a while. So the Senator, Trent Lott, introduced a joint resolution. And when he introduced that joint resolution, that joint resolution was Senate Joint Resolution number 11. The title reads, a joint resolution commemorating Juneteenth Independence Day, June 19, 1865, the day slavery finally came to an end in the United States. That came from the United States Senate. And keep in mind which senator it came from.

Trent Lott was a senator from Mississippi. Now, as far as this 13th Amendment is concerned, Mississippi didn't ratify the 13th Amendment until February 7, 2013. But now let's talk about when you were mentioning the amendment. And I need folks to understand this from a. civics class. Okay, in order for an amendment for a proposal to become an amendment, it has to meet two criteria. Number one, two-thirds of the Congress must approve it. So on January 31st,

1865, two-thirds of the Congress approved the proposal. At the time of the Civil War that it ended, there were 36 states. The other requirement for that proposal to become an amendment is that three-fourths of the states have to ratify it. Three-fourths of three-fourths of 36 is 27. On December 6th, 1865, Georgia became the 27th state to ratify the 13th Amendment. Now, I know some of you are thinking to yourself, look, man, we got Juneteenth. Why are you caught up on the technicality? I'm caught up on the technicalities for two reasons.

Yeah. Because I guarantee you, I'm going to ask you this, brother Dixon, if somebody were to say that you do black lives matter or all lives matter, what are you going to say? I mean, I'm going to say Black Lives Matter because we know the context of the conversation. And so from this standpoint, black lives didn't just start mattering now that the Black Lives Matter movement happened. Black Lives have always mattered. Okay, so keep that in mind. Number two, I do respect the history.

And anybody who doesn't respect their history, I will show you a fool. So I have a respect. Unapologetically, I respect my history. But now let's go back to Black Lives Matter. If we're going to commemorate the end of America's original sin, which is chattled slavery in this country, is anybody trying to convince me that leaving 225,000 black folks still enslaved, okay? If we want to commemorate the end of America's original sin, do it right. See, this ain't like Christmas where people have, you know, scholars have debated and. come to the conclusion. Nobody knows when Jesus was born. This is not that. Everybody knows.

There's only 27 amendments in the Constitution. You're trying to tell me that the vice president of the United States didn't know that? You're trying to tell me that the president of the United States didn't know that? Or at least some of their AIDS. There's enough researchers there in Washington, D.C. to facilitate this. Let's be clear. The United States government, we got access to every word that was ever written, okay? So, and keep this in mind, family. Whenever you see a presidential debate, first thing you do, when they cut to it, everybody's doing fact checking.

But when it comes to our history, the vice president, see, I don't believe that the vice president wrote her speech. But for them to come out and make that error, it's just insane to me. But even more so, what troubles me. And again, Brother Dixon, both you. and I love Juneteen. As a matter of fact, we love any day in which our ancestors were free from the evils of chattel slavery. But if we're going to commemorate the end of America's original sin, how do you leave 250,000 folks out there? Their souls are crying to us, hey, what about us?

And all people had to do was make it December 6th. folklore has been going. This big lie has been happening. We got what we got. Juneteenth is a prime example of the danger of not knowing our history because we have been disrespectful not only to ourselves, to our history, and most importantly, to our ancestors. Let's start with our ancestors. You gave us context. This is an image that you wanted, you sent over. And it's the image of the civil rights of the March on Washington. I want us to take a look at that because it shows 225,000 people marching. And I want people to see exactly what 250,000,

quarter of a million people looks like. We, go ahead. No, you got it. And so most of us remember, you know, if by chance you weren't alive in 1963 and you saw the march on Washington, that's an iconic photo that many of us have seen. That photo was taken from the state.

steps of the Capitol looking out at the Washington Monument, people stretched out. For those of you who are a little bit younger, try and go back and remember the inauguration of the first African-American President Barack Obama. It was a similar look. That's what a quarter of a million people look like. And I understand that we can't forget them.

If we want to say that Black Lives Matter, and in the spirit, in the spirit of Sister Harriet Tubman, You know, the sister escaped from slavery, but she went back, and she went back, and she went back, and she went back. And people asked her, sister, why would you keep doing that? You're free. She said, eyes ain't free until all my peoples is free. That's it. So if we're going to commemorate the end of the original sin in America,

and we know historically when that happened. December 6th, how do we do that and leave a quarter of a million people out? Again, we got nothing about, nothing against Juneteen, but I got everything about leaving those souls out there. Well, let me, let me jump in there because I want to bring up some of the, you brought receipts. You have plenty of receipts here. I want to go back to the resolution from 2005 where Kentucky, as the state of Kentucky, was getting ready to designate and recognize Juneteeth.

National Freedom Day, they made sure that they got the record straight because those 225,000 Kentuckians that were still being held as slaves that happened in Kentucky. So Kentucky was not going to recognize Juneteenth without putting it correct on the record. Let's bring that up on the screen, the designation of the Juneteenth National Freedom Day. And I want to read that, or you can read that for them, where they outlined the end of the Civil War, ended in 1865. April 1865, but, and this is the key sentence right here that you really are pointing out. You said, but bondage did not end for approximately 225 Kentucky slaves until the 13th Amendment was ratified December 18th, 1865 is how they have it documented here.

This was signed June 20th, 2005. So as the state of Kentucky began to recognize Juneteenth as the end of slavery for those Texans who received General Order 3, they made sure that they had on the record to honor the 225 Kentuckians who were enslaved until 1865. They did tell you the truth. And if you go in that same legislation from the state of Kentucky, you go to two whereasas down, they say this, whereas they say this. Whereas June 10th or June 19th, 1865 is considered the date when the last slated.

in America were free. So they're telling you, they told you up above, keep in mind, you know, after June team, there were 225,000 black folks in Kentucky still enslaved and they didn't get freedom until the past of the 13th Amendment. Now in there, they said ratified on December 18, 1865. It was actually December 6th. So all you got to do is look up when was the 13th Amendment ratified. You'll see that Georgia did it on December 6, 1865.

So again, family, the problem here is because we didn't, and so I don't want to believe that any of us in this climate today don't believe that Black Lives Matter. And based on the nefarious system of chattel slavery, none of us would be okay with leaving FAM behind. None of us would be. I'm convinced of that. So to see the vice president, to see all these people stand up there. and say, we're going to do this. And then the vice president, even in her statement, and you've got to understand what she's saying in her statement,

she said this. And still, let us remember that the day was not the end of slavery in America. The truth is, it would be six months before the 13th Amendment was ratified before enslaved people and the South and the North were free. So she's telling you, yes, we're going to do this. Even though we know there were still folks enslaved. So family, I'm going to just tell you this. I've always said there is a fundamental difference between ignorance and stupid.

We're all ignorant about something. And ignorance simply means you don't know. Right. The difference between ignorant is stupid is that you know better and you still do wrong. You still don't do better. So am I saying that the- One of the hardest parts of getting older is feeling like something's off in your body, but not knowing exactly what.

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Visit happy mammoth.com today and get your old self back naturally. Vice president of the United States was stupid. Yeah. And she says, yeah, Sister Harris, I love you. I swear, I voted for you. I put you in my calendar. I'm proud of you. But on that point, you do.

Matter of fact, you do. You have her in your calendar behind you. You're 365 days of black history. But to that point, I want to flip it a little bit because I saw that video that you mentioned, and you have the transcript of the speech from Kamala Harris, and she got it wrong. And it sounds like in between the time she got it wrong, and either later on, on that day or very closely after, she's made another announcement where she corrected it. She didn't correct it completely, but she did correct it and let it be known that this was

not the end of slavery. So we have two. And the only reason I want to make that distinction is because really because of your work and people like you who have been pounding the pavement to ensure that the accurate history about June teeth gets, it has gotten out. So when it came time for Joe Biden to actually sign the law, the bill into law, and you and I both look at the document that he signed, neither one, his document did not contain the errors that we're speaking of. Is that correct, or did you see something different? Okay, so again, if you look at the Senate joint resolution that Thad Cochran introduced, and keep in mind, in 1997, Thad Cochran of Mississippi introduced it to the Senate.

J.C. Watts introduced it in the House. And as I stated, the bill states and again, we're talking about Senate joint resolution number 11. A joint resolution commemorating Juneteen Independence Day, June 1865, quote,

the day on which slavery finally came to an end in the United States. Now, all I can tell you is that when you look at the text of the bill that was passed by the Senate. Now, they've taken all that language out. And now what they say is those enslaved in Galveston, and I'm not quoting them, but they say those enslaved in Galveston

were the last slaves in the southwestern part of the United States, right? Not even just in the southwestern part. Let me jump in there, because we actually have that graphic. And I want to, I want to make sure, because, again, I didn't know this history. And I appreciate you making that distinction because just because we're ignorant of the history doesn't make us stupid, but we're just ignorant, uninformating. You've been bringing that information to us. So I want to bring that on the screen. I want to start first with the Senate resolution that you just read.

Senate Resolution 11, which is entitled to Joint Resolution Commemorating Juneteenth, Independence Day, June 19th, 1865, the day on which slavery finally came to an end, the United States. Put that on the screen for me, if you guys have it handy. And this was past April 10th, 1997. This is where it got entered into the national record incorrectly. And it is taken, and there it is on your screen now. This was passed in the Senate of April 10th, 1997. And it was incorrect on the national record all the way up until this week.

Like this week, as they were talking about this legislation, it was getting ready to be entered into the national record signed into law by the president with incorrect information. But as it got, as people like you and other historians started establishing the record correctly, word got around and then they made this correction. I want to bring up the next one that you just mentioned, which was the resolution from the Senate that was, that eventually became law. And this is the distinction that they made, whereas news of the end of slavery did not reach the frontier areas of the United States. There you go, particularly the state of Texas and other southwestern states until a month after the conclusion of the Civil War, more than two and a half years, they go on and on and on after years of the President Abraham Lincoln issue of the Emancipation Proclamation. Whereas June 10th, Independence Day began as a holiday in the state of Texas and now celebrated in 48 states. I want to skip down a little bit. Oh, no, that is important. That's an important line there. Whereas June 10th Independence Day began as a holiday in the state of Texas and is now celebrated. in 48 states in the District of Columbia

as a special day of observance in recognition of the emancipation of all slaves in the United States. So they get right in the first paragraph, they got it wrong in the second paragraph. Yes, yes, because it wasn't

the freedom for all slaves. Again, family, I need you to understand this. Go look at the Emancipation Proclamation, read the text. And again, it's saying two, it's saying three things to you. He's declaring all of our ancestors and rebellion against the South free. But he's telling you that those of our ancestors still in those four border states, Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky, and Delaware, slavery is still legal.

And again, when West Virginia became a state, slavery was still legal. Now, three of those got rid of slavery. And the state that Mitch McConnell is from Kentucky and the state that the president is from Delaware, those two states never. As a matter of fact, they didn't sign the 13th Amendment. Delaware signed the 13th Amendment in 1901. Kentucky signed the 13th Amendment in 1976. But in those two states, slavery was still well and good. Now, one of the things that I talked to you about, Brother Dixon, is this, to show you the ramifications of having this in the record, in the state of Washington, I lived in the state of Washington for 18 years. I was an engineer in Seattle.

In December of 2020, there's a black representative named Melanie Morgan who introduced legislation to make Juneteenth a statewide holiday. Now, in the federal legislation, I mean, in the federal document, you heard them say 47 states. Washington became the 47 state due to Sister Morgan. If you look at the language in the House Bill 1016 for the state of Washington, it says, As best I can remember, the legislature intends to designate June 19th as a statewide holiday to celebrate the end of chattel slavery in America. Yeah, yeah. Let me jump in there only because we only have a few minutes left here. That was the Washington House Bill 1016 that you're mentioning.

And that was signed into law May 2021. And it just shows you an example of how misinformation and disinformation in Washington, D.C., We matriculated out all the way across this nation and became a part of law. That's right. Yeah. Dr. Carl Mack, thank you so much for joining us to discuss the real history of June 10th. And while both of us, you and I are both going to be celebrating June 10th tomorrow, it's only appropriate that we set the historic record correct that as of June 19th, 1865, there

were still 250,000 African Americans still enslaved. And as we get ready to get out of here, I asked the director, if they could could pull up the image of how many people, 225,000 people looks like. And Dr. Hart, thank you so much for joining us for this Juneteenth special. Brother Dixon, an absolute pleasure. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our very special June 10th at TYT. I'm your host for at least this segment. I'm Dr. Rashad Ritchie, host of Indisputable right here on the TYT Network.

I'm so elated that we're taking time to not only highlight, celebrate, but also to be informed, to learn, to understand ways that we can make this Juneteenth celebration, something much bigger than just a holiday. Now, for those of you who follow my show and watch my commentary, you already know how I feel about Juneteenth. We don't send politicians to Washington to give us holidays, but I'm glad we have a holiday. We should have been had a holiday. It is independence in the not only real term, but the significant term in the context of the African-American reality in this country. Now, with that being said, you have white supremacists like Candace Owens. They are just really, really upset that the United States of America has a bipartisan bill to create a holiday to say, yes, we need to celebrate Juneteenth. Remember, 47 states already recognize Juneteenth, including the District of Columbia.

so you really just added on three additional states. But this really, really pissed off Candace O. And she's upset about this to the uptieth degree. But I do find it quite interesting what people will get upset about, especially when they belong to a particular narrative and ideological conversation. Juneteenth is a good thing to celebrate. Let's reflect. Let's have a conversation.

Let's ask questions. Let's get answers. Today on the show, and I want to remind everyone, We have had some technical difficulties, but the team has worked hell of hard to make sure we can still bring you this show and bring it to you now. So please thank you for bearing with us as we got the technical stuff taken care of. We have Kenya Evelyn editor of Inside of Voices of Color and previously led the coverage of race and identity as a reporter for The Guardian, very, very accomplished and very smart sister. much for being with us on our special broadcast for Juneteenth. How are you? I'm wonderful. It feels good to usher in a first federal, federally recognized Juneteen

tomorrow officially. But as you said, we don't need outside validation to have jubilation in our communities. And this has been something that has been a long time coming, but isn't necessarily new to us. So happy Juneteenth to you. Happy Juneteenth. And you know, it's interesting because we've been celebrating Juneteenth for quite a while in the black community and in the city of Atlanta, we have a Juneteenth parade, and I had the great privilege of being the Grand Marshal for that parade six years ago, six years ago. And it's one of those parades where we didn't really stop to talk about some of the dynamics behind Juneteenth, but we want

to talk about some of that today, right? We got to take opportunities like this to have conversations about why Juneteenth is necessary to remember. Don't you find an ironic sister, that the Republicans that work with Democrats to pass this bill, to pass this federal holiday, are the same individuals against, let's say, the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. They are adversarial to the George Floyd Policing and Accountability Act. They are anti-HR-1. Don't you find a disconnect there between, hey, let's celebrate the holiday, but at the same time, let's not create a policy so that we can be true expressions of what the holiday

represents. Absolutely. On both sides of the aisle, it just reinforces what black voters, with black Americans, and people all across the country have criticized, has been symbolic gestures toward the black community without much substantive legislative impact or without much change involved in that. And so at the same time that we're seeing that, yes, this is a holiday that should have been recognized, and it is wonderful to see that federal legislation. We're hoping that can only be the momentum necessary for other legislation, like you mentioned the John Lewis Roading Rights Act, what we know for the People Act, and other legislation policing reform. These are issues that disproportionately impact black communities. And so we need to

see those issues. We need to see those issues progressed through learning about the history of Juneteenth. So it's great that you even mentioned that for many of us, it's not new to our communities. You had your experiences in Atlanta. It wasn't until I was well into my adulthood that I even realized that Juneteeth wasn't a federal holiday because I have the privilege of being from Milwaukee where we have the largest celebration. And you knew if the black children in your classroom were gone on June 19th that day,

you kind of gave them a pass because they were going to one of the largest street festivals that was preceded by a Miss Juneteenth page and parade. So this is something, I think, even as we're recognizing that, no, not all enslaved African Americans were freed or learned up their freedom on June 19, 1865, it wasn't, it's something to celebrate because it is an organic tradition, organic symbol of jubilation that began with us, was for us, and by us. And so that's something

we celebrate. You know, I heard one person pushed back a political figure on the conservative side. He said, well, well, we don't even celebrate the Emancipation Proclamation, which is actually a pretty good point. The Emancipation was signed in 1863. But here's what I say about the tradition of the ancestors. You know, that emancipation meant absolutely nothing until all slaves were free. And so by us celebrating Juneteenth, it is symbolically saying, no, we weren't free until we had information of the freedom, knowledge of the freedom, and we could exercise in that freedom. And it wasn't delayed just because we did not have a 24-hour news cycle. I heard a schoolteacher on YouTube say, oh, the reason why it took two years for slaves to know they were free in Texas

is because we don't have a 24-hour news cycle, did not have a 24-hour news cycle, and we did not have the advent of social media, which is a complete lie. The reason why it took two years is because the Texas officials decided to break the law, and they wanted to make sure that information never got to the masses,

and when people started to pick up on it, they continued to operate illegally to enslave human beings. Absolutely. And it wasn't just Texas. In fact, that some of our reporting over at Voices of Goddor, we recognize that other slaveholders from states who did not want to relinquish their slaves would, when Union soldiers would enter

other states like Tennessee or like Mississippi or Alabama, they would flee and they would take their enslaved African Americans to other plantations or build plantations and keep them enslaved in Texas just to escape the Union soldiers and the coming of what we knew to be the United States over the Confederacy for years to come. That's why essentially it took that long is because it was resistance. But that's why it's part of the celebration, because it was black union soldiers who, along with General Granger, arrived in Galveston, Texas and announced the jubilation or announced the passage of or the signage of the Emancipation Proclamation two years prior.

And so that was what began the agency of jubilation, the agency of claiming freedom, of claiming independence for your community, for your people in Galveston, Texas, and spread all throughout the state. And as we saw through the Great Migration and everywhere that black community spread throughout the country, became a holiday, a national holiday before it was a federal holiday. So it may be new to many, but it's not new to us. That's right. Kenya, you have reported on, which means you have studied the dynamics of race and identity in America. So here's what you have right now. And understand the irony of this, the irony of what I'm about to contextualize. You have a government that says, we are okay with you,

18th or your true emancipation from systemic bias, oppression, and slavery. But we're not okay with you learning about why it happened. Think about the irony of that. You have state legislatures passing laws calling it critical race theory or a ban on critical race theory, and it is not. No K through 12 educated even teaches critical race theory, but that's what they're using as the fabricated pretext for their own context. to push an agenda to stop the teaching of race at all in the classroom.

So you can't even learn in some of these states why Juneteenth is necessary to celebrate because some states have made it illegal for you to even put that in the curriculum as a basis for your instruction. Absolutely. I mean, we even see where Oklahoma, some of their new laws, I believe it said, quote, you're not allowed to make an individual feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race. That's essentially saying that we're going to coddle to the sensitivities of white fragility and essentially erase what is the true

history of the United States. And so what many even advocates and proponents of this legislation of Juneteen are hoping and are advocating for is that this can be the very first step in challenging that very notion that we cannot be American, we cannot be patriotic by learning and reconciling and atoning for through restitution and reparations. The many atrocities committed to our communities throughout American history long after the Emancipation Proclamation, long after Juneteenth, or even what many opponents of this celebration of Juneteen say is better and more fitting, which would be the ratification of the 13th Amendment later in December of that year. You have white supremacists like Candace Owens, who would have,

decided to go on social media and make just a big, big deal about how she hates this Juneteenth. She actually said Juneteenth is so lame. And then she goes on social media. It makes actually a bunch of money by doing this rant against Juneteenth. But let me ask you this question about direction. Do you think Juneteen scares people because it actually does build or start? building the case for reparations in America. What do you thoughts about that?

Absolutely. In fact, Voices of Color held a clubhouse event right after, in the hours after President Biden signed the Juneteenth National Independence Day Act. And in our clubhouse with White House correspondent April Ryan, we were able to determine that the White House and even members of Congress, members of the Senate who were in attendance for that signing ceremony, were completely, completely satisfying the passage of this bill. and can see that as momentum for there to be further discussions and further compromise on other legislation like we are talking about the For the People Act or the John Lewis Voting Rights Act,

but particularly when it comes to policing reform, there reports that there are more conversations than many of us in the public are privy too, and we could possibly see some compromise there. And that could be some progress that Democrats especially could particularly use in saying that they are champions and advocates for black communities and black voters who are largely responsible, for why this bill could even pass because you had control of both the Senate and House as well as the White House. So in all honesty, they had the opportunity to pass this legislation since January, and that's why we're seeing a white supremacist, and that's why we're seeing even the former president of the United States, Donald Trump, attempting to either completely

take credit for the passage of this legislation or question its legitimacy, which is a contradiction even in itself. But does that surprise you, sister? I mean, I mean, okay, Donald Trump being a contradiction. Come on now. Absolutely not. I think the fact that he refuses to refer to himself as former president would be a contradiction. It just embodies his contradiction. Absolutely.

Juneteen has this great coalition building potential. If you look at it for what it is, now let me, I'm going to take you to a different direction with Juneteen. I think it's a mistake for people to think Juneteenth is only a representation of a black holiday. I think that's a mistake because if you look at it from the context of the America that we believe America

can be, America was not truly independent until the true independence of all of its people had arrived. So I would propose that the true independence day was not us leaving another country as a nation, but us being independent and free people

inside of the nation, all of us. That is your true independence because that is the great experiment and the great potential of the United States of America. Freedom. Absolutely. And there are many who agree with you that it is very fitting that this bill is actually recognized as Juneteenth National Independence Day and that it's no shying away from the fact that for many in this country, July 4th, 1776 does not represent a day in which their people were emancipated or liberated from tyranny that was Britain. In fact, there are many who would even argue that Britain at that time would already be had sentiments, anti-slavery sentiments, may have even ushered in the abolishment of slavery even sooner. So there's an argument

there. But even in recognizing that, you're recognizing that black Americans are ingrained within the storytelling of American history. This isn't the first federal holiday that began with African-American origins. If we are talking about it, we know that Memorial Day began as Dedication Day, a day to honor African-American Union soldiers who were injured or died in the Civil War.

And so knowing that and recognizing that, those are the very opportunities that those who are in support of the passage of this bill and are recognizing and celebrating Juneteenth, these are the very instances where folks are pointing to, we can learn. We can learn our very history and see that African-American history is American history and has long been a part of American history before Juneteenth in 1865. You know, one of the things that we have always been taught, especially when we were in elementary

school, middle school, high school, is that America is a great melting pot. And I remember hearing school teachers say this and my school was all black. I didn't see a melting pot there. My community was all black. I didn't see a melting pot there at all. And the few times I went to church, it was an all-black church. I didn't see some great melting pot. But I think what has happened is the narrative has started to change. Well, there was a time when really white people were saying, we want you to assimilate with white culture.

We don't want to be a melting pot. We want to sell the melting pot story. But we don't want to really be a melting pot. We don't want to lose our identity. We want you to assimilate and be like us in order to coexist in this country. And now you have loads of black people, brown people, and even woke white people who are saying, wait a minute, we should celebrate these differences. And look at something as what we would think is simple, like hairstyle.

You're just now getting lost past that say, you can't fire a black person for having a black person hairstyle. Like, damn, we're just getting to that. Absolutely. In fact, you're absolutely right. In fact, in a couple of days, it will be Crown Day, which is the, recognizing when the first state, California passed legislation that made it a crime were made it against the law to discriminate against applicants based on their natural hair texture or hairstyle or styles that are largely linked to and associated with ethnic backgrounds, culture, or race. And so even today, there's still only 14 states that recognize this legislation. And you're absolutely right. And these are the types of opportunities that people of all backgrounds, all faiths and all regions are even talking about this is an opportunity for us to address directly, that talking about race isn't racist. Similarly, we're seeing efforts to challenge the very notion of talking about the real history of the United States and of race and of slavery and of institutional racism in this country through the efforts across the country, and particularly in red states, to ban critical race theory. And so even though we can see in most data and most research will show you isn't very widely implemented in public schools across the country. So it's largely a gesture, another symbolic gesture, but this time on the conservative side to pander to those who aren't ready to reconcile with what Juneteenth and what other holidays could potentially recognize is the real history of the United States. The real history of the United States, the real history of the U.S.

You're right, critical race theory not really taught in K through 12 education. The truth is, madam, it's not even taught in many colleges. I'm a college professor. You have to get to the master's doctoral level before I would even talk to you about critical race theory. It is an advanced theoretical framework. You need to have some qualitative research behind you for you to even understand how to utilize it properly as a historical analytical tool so that you can start doing research. it really is a way for you to research historical norms and how those biases played into certain outcomes.

That's not being taught to fifth graders. But once again, the trick was to say, this is the great evil. And I had to ask this question to a conservative guy on my show a few days ago. I said, listen, man, the critical race theory construct has been around since the 70s.

Some people say it actually started in the sixth. 60s, but we know for sure it's been around since the 70s. All of a sudden, after Donald Trump said something about it, it has become the number one evil that Republicans say must be eradicated. Assistant, they have got to see what's happening here. How can they be that gullible? It just plays into the fears that we see of Americans all across the country of the browning

and blackening of this country. It speaks to the notion that we see even where, there are still conspiracy theories that somehow later this summer, the former, and I am stressing former president of the United States, Donald Trump will somehow be reinstated. The same way that we see these very fringe and just bombastic ideologies allow to perpetuate within conservative institutions and even within the electorate is because it works for Republicans, it works for conservatives at that moment to pander to them. And right now, you know, you need that straw man. You need something to vilify, whether it be the immigrant population. We see every

holiday season. We see every downtime in a news cycle, unfortunately for us, where we're always talking about a caravan of immigrants. You need that straw man. You need that person to be able to gang up on and build up on, but also you need that element of fear to keep your constituents, to keep your base, to keep your people scared of whatever boogeyman you want to set for them. And in this instance, it's exactly what holidays like a Juneteenth or reconciling with the fact that Memorial Day was originally Dedication Day, and that various elements of what we know to be American history are ingrained from either Africa or the African Americans that come from it. It just speaks to, you know, this idea that this country is not ours. And being able to have something that federally

recognizes us and substantiates who we are. It only peddles that fear. It only feeds into that fear. And that's why we're seeing the criticism of critical race theory ramp up. Very well said, Juneteenth, they want us to not talk about it. They really didn't want to pass this as a holiday. Many white supremacists are coming out adversarial to Juneteenth, even though it is codified in history. It's a reality of this country. And generally speaking, most of them would say, hey, into slavery was a good thing, right? But these are the same folks who will tell you we can never forget about the Confederacy.

These are the same people who would say we need to build statues and put these Confederate military war generals in places of honor. And beyond that, we need to also make sure that taxpayer dollars fund these racist individuals. How crazy is it that our dollars have to pay for symbols of our own oppression?

That is a symbol of the oppression of my ancestors, and my tax dollars are forced to pay to give these clowns places of honor. So on one hand, they want to honor Confederate soldiers, who, by the way, committed treason against the United States of America, but they don't truly want to honor the spirit of Junete. Can you make that make any sense? It doesn't make sense. I mean, in fact, it just, for a problem,

party for conservative institutions, for institutions, for communities of people who are adamant on wanting you to believe they are not racist. They seem to be very vocal in expressing their opposition to the very things that celebrate breaking from racist traditions in this country. So when you see conservatives stepping forward to say, you know, why should we recognize Juneteenth as opposed to your life for it, are you saying your party doesn't want You didn't want the emancipation proclamation. You didn't want the slaves, the enslaved in Galveston to learn of their freedom. Did you want things to say the same? What exactly are you implying here? What exactly are you saying? And is this the same reason why you are telling communities of people that, you know, whether you're, if you're Rick Santorum, that there isn't an indigenous history in this United States. You want to erase a community of people who are instrumental, not only to the wealth of this country, but, you know, to the sustainability of this country, the culture of this country. We are this kind of. And that is what communities are struggling to reconcile with. I think they also saw that the election of President Barack Obama, the very close election

where you almost got a Hillary Clinton, even a Democratic primary where a progressive like Bernie Sanders, damn near took that thing in the primary. I think they saw this as a great transitioning happening in the United States. So here's what they decided to do, and this is just my theory system. They said, okay, we can no longer win by voters picking us. So we now have to pick voters. And they started to create Senate Bill 202 and all of these state laws to restrict black folk and brown folk and young folk from having complete access and complete unfettered access

to voted. So they passed these laws under their state rules, right? So now they're saying, okay, so we've done that. We can now, we've now figured out how to pick the voters. Let's also make sure we put people in places, judges, election directors. We put people in places who will overturn results if it comes down to it. So they have that assault happening as well. Thirdly, here's what they've done.

They're now saying we are going to stop true history being taught to K through 12 students because we don't want that generation to rise up and then judge what we do. did wrong. So we are going to give them a false narrative in their education. We are going to make this a 1950-style propaganda-like educational format to where America is right and everything else is wrong. And that will hopefully, in their opinion, seal their own legacy. Absolutely. And it's not the sad thing about it, though, is that it's nothing new. We see this whenever there is a threat or are concerns about a particular electorate's impact on an incoming or an upcoming national or even local and state elections. I mean, we saw the pushback against the instruction and implementation of Tejano and Chicano education in California, in Arizona.

We saw that at the same time that we are seeing anti-immigrant rhetoric being peddled by conservative leaders as well as conservative media. And so with that, we will soon see at the same time that we're seeing parallels with a rise in hate crimes against Asian American and Pacific Islander communities. We'll also see that and we'll see that effort to dial back the education of a longstanding history of that community in this country and educational systems and school systems across the country as well. It all just speaks to this fear. And you fear, you combat that fear by controlling the narrative and you can control the narrative by controlling and controlling the power dynamics. And those power dynamics exist in judges. Those power dynamics exist in the Supreme Court. Those power dynamics exist in the fact that, you know,

legislators like Jim Jordan would not, before we were even talking about voting rights and the efforts to dial back voting rights even since this last national election, we have legislators like Jim Jordan who would not be in Congress if it weren't for gerrymandering. So we see efforts to attack the electorate and attack growing and more influential demographics

all across the country. And this is nothing new, and we'll see it for many years to come. But today, as we talk about holidays to celebrate jubilation, to celebrate resistance, these are our hat-tipped to community's ability to overcome and to fight back. And we can see that hopefully that there's an effort to gain from this momentum from a passage of a federal holiday to actually implement change that will address those very issues. Very well said, sister. I appreciate all of your words tonight, your insight and your continued leadership in the fight for

justice. If you could give people your social media, how can people connect with you, follow you? Well, on everything, it's pretty simple. I'm just live from Kenya, just like the country. Nice. Thank you so much for joining us on our special June 10th broadcast at TYT. Remember, TYT is donating 100% of everything from shop TYT to the NAACP. We got more. Thanks for listening to the full episode of the Young Turks. Support our work. Listen ad free. access members, only bonus content, and more by subscribing to Apple Podcasts at apple.com slash t-y-t. I'm your host, Shank Huger, and I'll see you soon.