The Zac Clark Show - Behind the Reality TV Curtain: Carl Radke on Sobriety, Redemption, and Showing Up

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

Carl Radke’s journey to recovery happened in front of millions. As a cast member on Bravo’s Summer House, his struggles with alcohol, cocaine, grief, and identity became national conversation. But behind the reality TV persona was a man battling real pain, quietly losing control.In this powerful episode of The Zac Clark Show, Carl sits down with Zac and Jay for an unfiltered conversation about the long road to recovery — and the moment he knew he had to change. He opens up about losing his brother to addiction, the guilt he carried, the impact of growing up in a family marked by substance use, and the deep work it’s taken to forgive himself.Carl also shares the story behind Soft Bar, his new non-alcoholic bar and café opening in Brooklyn — a project rooted in connection, purpose, and his vision for a more inclusive social space.From running and recovery to public pressure and private healing, this conversation is about what it means to rebuild your life when everyone’s watching — and how to use your pain to help others find their way out.Connect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

All right. Welcome back to the Zach Clark show. Today's guest, I'm a fan. I'm a fan boy. I don't even know what I said. I love this guy with every beat of my heart. Carl Radke. What's up, dude? I love you to see, man. It's great to see you. Thank you guys for having me. Thanks for coming. I remember sitting in this room when I first came to release recovery. Kyle Axman, fitness friend of mine had said, I was talking about my sobriety, my recovery. And he's like, you don't know Zach Clark? I'm like, I've heard of him. He's like, dude you got to meet Zach Clark so he set me up we talked I came into this room I sat on that couch I think yeah for the first time we really got to know you and it was great yeah that was a beautiful day and we shared so much commonality which we oftentimes do in this and this journey and I just dude I mean I got to say I mean there's so much exciting stuff going on in your life I was telling we were talking about before the camera started rolling but you are grinding you are

everywhere bro I'm taking I'm taking inspiration from you I feel like if I if I sit still that's when I start overthinking and just keep filling my schedule with good stuff. I'm just trying to kind of take advantage of I feel good. I'm healthy and I'm more productive this way too. It's the running. It's the running. Carl just did his first half marathon. Let's go.

Thank you. Thank you. He's got the bug. So we'll see what happens. I got the running bug. And I also was inspired by a lot of what you've put out there on your running journey and what you've done at release. And I feel like if I've seen some other folks who, you know, I compare myself.

And I'm like, if they can do it, I can definitely do it. So it's been, you know, really exciting to, like, actually realize I could run a half, even a half marathon. You're an athlete. I'm an athlete, but, you know, running was not my, you know, cup of tea overall. When you talk about mental health, obviously, for me, it's all about clearing the junk out of my mind. I mean, I go out for a run and, you know, you've experienced it probably, hopefully at this point, you go out for one of those five, six mile runs where you're not thinking about anything other than just, you know, being there. Totally. It's, I got, I kind of crave the runners high.

I used to crave other highs back in the day But this one especially There's something about I don't know Like I feel like I'm confident More confident I'm more happier Yeah

And it's I don't always feel that way Pre-run So yeah There's like a sweet spot of like two and a half miles Three miles for me where Can I get this where I'm almost so tired And I'm breathing I can't think about anything else

So there's something to be said about that too That's amazing Well I always laugh Because people will come up to me and say, I don't watch a show, but, you know, and then they make some commonality or whatever it is. And I was definitely, you know, familiar with you, Carl, and knew of you, you know, prior to me going on TV and all that stuff. But I really, truly know you for your advocacy, for the work you're doing in the mental health space. Obviously, soft bar is something we got to talk about, which is incredible. I'm grateful to be a part of that journey with you as an investor.

Yeah. And cake eater, the book's coming out. So you've got a lot going on. And it's hard to pick a place at Jay. How you doing? Say hi. Hi, Carl. Good to see you, Jay. How you doing, man? What kind of athlete were you? Because you're 6'5. You have these giant hands. Big hands, big paws. So I was a late bloomer. And I was actually cut from my JV basketball team, my sophomore year of high school. I was still a little short. It rocked my world. I like wasn't good enough for the JV team. A friend of mine who played on the basketball team had also said, well, don't worry about it, man. Play in the CYO was a Christian basketball league.

It's in Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh. Funny enough, we made it to the state championships and played a bunch of kids from Philly. No shit. And they kicked their ass. But I didn't, I got cut from the basketball team. And then that spring, I tried out for the baseball team. And I got cut from the baseball team.

And it shattered my world because those are my sports, basketball, baseball, football. Had a good friend of mine said, Carl, try out for the volleyball team. I was like, what? He's like, you want to dunk a basketball? I was like, sure. He's like, that's the way to learn how to dunk a basketball is to go for the volleyball team. So I end up trying out for the volleyball team that sophomore year of high school. Is that a spring sport?

What year? It was a spring sport in Pittsburgh for us. And the team at my school was actually really good. But a bunch of our like kind of younger sophomore athletic kids that didn't play baseball or other sports played volleyball. And like we had this like kind of developing young group, me being one of them who kind of just wanted something to do in the spring. but I thought of myself as a great athlete, but I was a later bloomer into it. So my senior year,

I did blossom into like an all-state volleyball player. I was a goalie, starting goalie for our soccer team, and I was the backup place kicker on the football team. But our starting kicker did go on to be a Hall of Famer at University of Pittsburgh. Shout out to Connor Lee. We're still friends. His brother played in the NFL.

So I was behind like an all-star. So it wasn't like a... Well, Zach has a self-proclaimed. professional long snapper right I was a very good long snapper I always said that I missed the boat I should have just taken a bunch of steroids and just had a 10 year career

in the NFL as a long snappers are that's a tough position that's a skiller well now I think they protect them a little bit more they protect them more but the thing I always say about a long snapper is it's like being a firefighter you either put out like you either do your job and no one hears about it

or you snap it over the guy's head and you know you're the asshole everybody hates you so it is a thankless job so were you drinking back then like when you were in high school? I mean, what was your, what was your life like? Yeah, I remember pretty, so my brother was five years older than me and he was a hell of an athlete, like all, all-star baseball player. It was just the two of you? It was just the two of us. But my brother was a hell of an athlete. I would kind of inspired by him.

He was my hero growing up. But when he got to high school, his path started to go a different direction, drinking, using drugs, running away from home, having issues with school. So I was absorbing a lot of five years younger. So a lot of my teens and into my high school was kind of like, I'm going to be the opposite of my brother.

So I didn't drink. I was always getting good grades. I showed up to school. I loved going to class. I told my mom this recently, and she thinks I'm revising history, which can happen sometimes. I believe I didn't miss like much school at all.

Like I went every day no matter what, even if I was sick. Like I loved it that much. The trauma from watching your brother was informing your behavior. I mean, you were trying to be. You do the opposite.

I always said to myself, I want to be the opposite. Because when I would walk into school, teachers that had taught my brother in were teaching me, you know, oh, you're Curtis's brother. And there was that Curtis's brother, Curtis. And it really ate me up because I used to be enamored by him and he was a great athlete. But then now he's like in my head at this time, he's a druggie and a shitty guy. So he had a reputation in school, which I was trying to shed because we have our last name in a, Upper St. Clair where we're from in Pittsburgh. My dad also went to Upper St. Clair.

My aunts and uncles went to Upper St. Clair. So we're like a big family name, but it was always good. Sports and church and community. And now my brother was getting arrested or certain things around town. So I always set out in my early days of high school to do the exact opposite. But there was maybe, I think one time I remember someone had a Milwaukee best beer or in someone's a basement. everybody was that the beer out I mean I know what about Icy light what I see light was there it was harder

actually I see light was was harder to get I think it was Milwaukee Keystone Bud Light Natty Light Natty Light whatever you could steal from your parents garage but I remember drinking a Milwaukee Best Light and being very very sick the first time you drank drank threw up in a friend's basement was like hung over for three days and didn't really do that I was really focused on class I was in student council I got good grades I was part of the just the community there I didn't really to say I didn't party no like I would be with friends and probably my senior years when I would dabble a little bit more in the underage drinking but truthfully it wasn't until I got to Syracuse University I think that's so important for parents to hear too because we'll we'll get calls all the time where they're they'll say to

us my Johnny or my billy or my Emily was an honor roll student never drank in high school then all the sudden, you know, all the sudden, and it's just, there's no timeline to when this thing really. No. No, I mean, it's, yeah, even with my brother, like, I think he was a pretty damn good kid until like 15. And then all of a sudden, it's like, my parents couldn't piece it together. But I, I've talked about this before, but like my brother, we had a, we grew up in a small house in Pittsburgh. We were very blue collar. We weren't poor, but we just worked hard for what we had. But we grew up in a town that's very wealthy and upper, upper middle class, which is a part of the reason my book was called Cake Eater.

I was made fun of as a kid for being rich, but we weren't because I was from this town that is kind of known for being wealthy in Upper Bay. What's a cake eater? Cake eaters are someone who's handed everything and kind of just eat your cake. You're just so rich, all you care about is eating your cake. It's a term that's actually used in Mighty Ducks, too. Oh, really? To make fun of, like, a kid who's wealthy.

Instead of calling him like a rich prick, you call him a cake eater. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I grew up in this town that was the great film. Yeah. Great film. Most of the issues in my town were underage drinking. I'm sure some of the pills started to pick up there. But it was a pretty...

You're my age? Are you... I'm 40. Yeah, so I'm 41. Okay. So you were... Yeah, this was the height of... The pill stuff started to really pick up steam after I graduated high school.

But it was when I would come home to Pittsburgh for like a holiday or visit some friends that the kids I went to high school with that were going to college. But locally in Pittsburgh were now... OCs, Percocets, Vicodins, Watson's, all of it. We were, you know, I would dabble here and there with friends, but it wasn't like a... Do you remember the first time you did a pill? I want to say it was in probably high school because I will say I had some dental surgery. Right. I had some significant dental surgery and my mom, I remember I was in such pain because she didn't want to give me.

Like, I think we called them yellows at the time. I don't know if that's a term anymore, but like, the yellow percocets. But she didn't want to give those to me because she knew about what my brother had struggled with. So I was like fighting for dear life with ibuprofen and Advil when I actually was needing that. But I think she gave me one of those.

I remember feeling night and day different from what Abby Profin was doing to what the yellow was doing for my dental stuff. But it was kind of a thing with amongst my friends being passed around at a party. It was an easy way to get more fucked up. Yeah. Also the hangover the next day, if you had a big night.

Yeah. You know, take a perceter bike, get in. That's where I fell in love. The next day. Yeah, because I knew, no matter how hard I went, whatever time I stayed up till, if I had, you know, one of those perk 30s to shove up my nose the next morning, I was going to be good. Yep, golden. Yeah.

See, I was the other, I was always the other ride. I knew I had a big night or was going to have one. I needed Adderall in the morning. Yeah. That was like my, if I had an Adderall ready to go, I would do whatever I wanted the night before. because it was just going to get me right back to square one, which did for a little bit, but then obviously it doesn't for a long time. Right.

Was your family religious, did you grow up in a religious household? I did. So, you know, earlier memories of my youth, my grandparents on my Radkei family side, very religious, went to a church in Pittsburgh, basically every Sunday. And it was a family tradition every Sunday. Then you go to breakfast after. But it was a part of our kind of family fabric. then as I got a little bit older I mean I would I was this sounds weird saying I was the altar boy

out of my church for many Sundays I would get there early wear the cloak with the ropes I lit the candles I'd pass out the unleavened bread and the the grape juice that looked like red wine and yeah I did that for many many years I worked at the church but I had family members who so you had a servant's heart that's where some of this stuff is coming from for sure at this point in your life it's like coming My mom would, would rope me into church, though, by taking me to McDonald's after. That's right. I was like, if you buy me the sausage egg muffin with, you know, hash brown, I'll come do the church stuff.

But I started to develop a little bit of resentment about the church because I had some family members who were very church going, but then we were like having other issues at home. And I just was like conflicted by it all, like marital issues, cheating affairs. It's confusing. I mean, I see it in AA sometimes. There'll be the guy at the pulpit sharing his story and sponsoring a bunch of guys. and then behind closed doors he's like having an affair or whatever it is like that doesn't

really add up but humans are going to human totally and i it was something that kind of gave me a disillusion about the church but i say all that because when i graduated from from high school my freshman year at syracuse i went to the lutheran church on campus for that first year wow um i thought well i didn't you know how do i meet other people that aren't all about partying church you know what's something good for me to do that's maybe giving back to the community or connecting with other people and church. So I actually went to, anybody's listening, Hendricks Chapel at Syracuse. It was like the local campus church, but they had a Lutheran service, which we were

Lutheran. Lutherans is kind of like Catholicism. I joke, it's all the redemption, half the guilt, or Catholic light, is what they call it. Sorry for the jokes, but it's just how it is. No, I love it. But I love going to church because it was something just. I don't know, like I would, I was a part of something. Yeah, I felt like I got something out of it deep down.

But after my freshman year of college, I joined a fraternity. Yeah, but that says a lot about who you are, man. Like your ability to go, I mean, I would have been terrified to go to church or any type of organized religion in college because of what my class might have said of me or what I, what the stigma around church. Sure. I think the stigma did come in, though, after. my freshman year because I was kind of a dork. I was friends with all the cool kids, but definitely like have a dorkiness about me at times. But I also fancied myself as like a cool kid. So here I am going to church on Sundays and watching like the cool frat kids like stumble home

from the bars. And I'm like, that looks cooler. I met some frat guys that I thought were, you know, fun and part of what I wanted to do. So it led me to like wanting another life on college campuses besides like this kind of buttoned up goody goody because I worked at the gym I made you know I was making money while going to class oh I was freshman year I did it all right yeah but then after that I don't know I joined the fraternity I met cocaine how was that how was that love at first sight strong than God absolutely I was in Acapulco Mexico on a spring break trip didn't know how did yeah I just say Mondara and the palladium or the nightclubs in Acapulco and anybody who's watching knows what I'm talking about I had a really fun group of friends but a lot of these guys

are from New York City and they were going to clubs in New York at age 13 age 14 I didn't know what bottle service was right I'm a I'm a 19 year old kid at Syracuse yeah we had the same we had the same I mean I even so even in sobriety moving here at 27 I had never really hung out in New York and I went out for someone's birthday that was sober but they had friends it weren't and there was the whole bottle service thing and I was like uh-huh okay yeah yeah the bottle service thing changed my entire life in a weird way like I was blown away that you could like carry like power in a nightclub with like having a table and what kind of bottles you had and the women you could recruit and just feeling like you're someone else um but we were we did a I remember

vividly we were pre-gaming in the room and somebody said you know put some lines out on the table in aquaoka in aquaoka and blew some lines and i felt amazing you know it was dressed up well i had the you know the outfit going the cologne we've got the bottle service i'm feeling great um we were flirting with girls having a whole thing i mean i don't really remember how the night ended to be honest but that was the first time i'd ever done it but we were all like celebrating it was like this fun thing right it wasn't like normal it was like a positive thing in that moment at least but um and at this point is curtis like are you do you think of him when you yeah i think at that point i was because i always where was he at that point so my brother had a really

difficult up and down career i mean ultimately until he passed of just jail rehabs you know he'd get it right for a little bit kind of go back and forth but he tried he attempted to go to college the University of Indiana, Pennsylvania, IUP, we call it. We dropped them off. I remember we dropped them off and his roommate came out and the guy was wearing a Grateful Dead T-shirt, tie-dye, and I'm like, there's no way this is going to work. Him and those two guys in one room is not going to work,

and lo and behold, it didn't. I think since my brother had turned 13 or 14 is when everything just went a different direction. So for most of my career, I set out to do everything opposite, but then when in college started to turn, I almost thought to myself, well, I'm not like him. I can he didn't do coke he was doing heroin I'm good right I almost made excuses for why I could do it and didn't even register that you know I didn't even almost take it seriously what my brother was doing like it's not me that's his problem I mean that's the story we tell ourselves and that's why I love what you're doing in the non-alcoholic space is because I I feel like alcohol yes the most socially accepted drug but probably the worst if you really if you really get down to causes and conditions I would rather be a heroin addict and know that I have a problem at age 20 or 26, then drink into my 50s and 60s.

I mean, I've seen it since I've started to go to meetings a little over four and a half years ago. I mean, sadly, I've been in rooms where some people haven't come back to those rooms again. Yeah. And it's scary and it's reminder of why this disease is, it's just, it's crazy that, you know, it takes people, even who are trying to work at it. You know, I always thought the people that it's taking are the people that just never

discover those rooms and never have the chance to get some help but no it's actually people who like i got a problem i'm really trying who still fall to their knees and that's when i was like damn um because my brother was someone that was a great kid when he was had his his bearings going and everything was solid but he just couldn't get out of his own was there was there an actual relationship there i mean was there an actual brother brotherhood between the two of you totally i mean I've recently... My brother's five years older than me, and I, you know, it was almost different. He was kind of the buttoned up one, and I was the guy that probably should have been...

Totally. And I can relate to that dynamic because I was kind of the buttoned up, and he was the fish Grateful Dead guy, you know, selling grilled cheeses outside of concerts to get enough money to go in. And I mean, he should have wrote a book, honestly. I may have to channel his energy some time down the line. But, yeah, he had a really rough career of... up and downs that I it's interesting like when you're a cocaine addict and alcoholic he like it's

different than heroin and pills and meth and all the other things he was doing so I was like the good kids still no matter what and he was like the bad mind in my mind yeah but I recently started looking up my brother used to email me uh from college times until I graduated college into my like mid to late 20s we would exchange emails with each other and I've actually more recently been comfortable kind of going back on reading those And it's actually really beautiful because it reminded me of the bond that we had. That's awesome. And how special he was taking the time to write me and give me some positive encouragement, share stories.

So it's actually been really beautiful to read back some of the communications that we have. Because not all of it was great, though. We had a lot of uncomfortable things with each other. But the bond, I believe, is there. And I think, I mean, I've said this a couple of times maybe publicly, but what really set it off, my brother ran out a great place he was really proud of his brother for being on a reality TV show

he was tuning in to like support me and that he watched in the particular episode he tuned in on I'm in the the interview chair I've had a big night of drinking and partying and basically my excuse was that I had some shit going on at home my brother's struggling at home

he's a heroin addict you said that I said that on reality TV and my brother watched and it was it was very really rough he went on to facebook and like went on a tear like it's sad reading i've looked back at it because obviously he was really upset and it's a really it's just a really difficult thing to do to someone in your life too yeah but it's a it's a difficult thing

to do to someone you love and care about and it felt so abrasive and i don't know it just wasn't it wasn't cool of me to do that and i was also here i am sitting with fucking coke at my nose in the drunk and I'm calling out my brother who had been really trying and working his best. Do you think you were trying to help him by maybe saying it out loud that he would undeniably have to look at it? I mean, maybe deep, I think I was calling out my own insecurity about my relationship with. Yeah, you spot it. You got it. I mean, that's really where I go to. It's, I'm going to tell, I'm going to tell my brother's dirty laundry so that no one comes after my coke and booze. And that's what I did for early on. I would say from 2014 to 2020 was

majority of like my parents are going through divorce my dad did this my brother's doing that it was everybody else but the substances I would make you know my brother's a heroin addict like I would make light of that but I'm fine and I've got an eight ball in my pocket but think about it's like the thing I'm thinking about here Carl's like and and I look I grew up in a one square mile town and I talk about it a lot on the show where I want it for nothing right I want it for nothing and like it sounds like you had a similar middle upper class upbringing and here you are the whole thing is burning the whole the whole radkey last name family yeah i mean it's that had to be confusing it's been very i mean i grew up around a lot of big personalities in

my family uh drinking was a big thing in our family um my grandfather was a big drinker but you know he was funny and it was like he was great and my dad drank and it was normal and fine but it was becoming very obvious that i had a problem because I had most of the men that I looked up to around my, you know, that I grew up with or that I really admired my dad, my aunt, my dad, my uncle, my grandfather, and my brother, the four of them. And I say this with a lot of love and compassion, but the four of them all had interesting relationships with substances. And it was becoming very clear to me that I come from the same kind of cloth here. Why am I not taking a serious look at this?

But it didn't hit me right away. It wasn't until my brother passed, honestly, that I realized is that I also have a distinct obligation and I feel a calling inside my body to like, you've got to be honest with yourself because if you're not, you're going to be just like him. So just to backtrack a bit, you leave Syracuse,

you moved to New York, you're in the New York City kind of going out scene, is that you become a clubgoer in the city, right? Is that accurate? Well, so I graduated from Syracuse and I moved to Los Angeles, California. Oh, you did, okay. For work?

Where are you doing for work? So I wanted to, I set out to work in the television industry. I went to Syracuse's new house school, and I studied TV, radio film. I originally wanted to be on ESPN. I thought I could be like, you know, Mike Tariko or... You still might. Could be.

You could. I mean, look, man, you're talented guy. Thank you, man. I love, I love, I love, I mean, Stuart Scott was like the icon of the 90s on SportsCenter, RIP Stu. I mean, sports center for us growing up. It's ruined today. It's so bad. It's not the same.

It was... But I was, you know, I love the sports. I love the TV world. So I moved to Los Angeles after college. And interestingly enough, a night before I moved, I had like a credit card with like $1,000 of limit. And my brother had heard through the grapevine that I had gone out and spent like $700 at a nightclub in Pittsburgh, like celebrating I'm moving to L.A.

And he like ripped me apart. He's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You can't spend $700 on liquor. You're moving to L.A. the next day. And what's interesting is he like called me out. But that callout is why I stepped back because I was like, oh, fuck, he's going to hold me to the fire. And I don't want, like, I don't need that for him. So I, like, didn't tell him about some of the drinking and things.

But he could tell and he would know and he would pick up on that. But I got to L.A. I slept on a friend's couch for two weeks because I was broke. I mean, if I'm really being honest, like the $700 I spent was to get through those first couple weeks. But I spent it on a nightclub the night before I moved. and that was cool and normal yeah it's also a classic textbook

yeah substance abuse you know alcohol whatever you want to call yourself I mean like that's the move right we're gonna burn it down the night and figure it out tomorrow were you afraid were you afraid of moving were you afraid I'm 17 years sober too and like one of the things I realized when I got sober

pretty quickly was how terrified of everything I was but I was so numb to that or just so quick to like outrun that. So making a move like that, were you like, what was your feelings about doing something like that? I mean, I was always dead set on doing it. I had seen other kids in my program at Syracuse. I feel like when you graduated from Newhouse, you had two choices, L.A. or New York. And I had a couple people from my program go to L.A. And I felt like if they could do it, I could do it. But I got there. And I was like, oh, this is like, you don't just like

get discovered on Hollywood Boulevard with your guitar and become famous. You go to like really pay your dues and grind it out. But I was so poor and broke back then that I didn't drink a lot because I couldn't afford it. The times I would drink, I would steal the booze from like a luncheon at our production thing. Like a big catering and crafty, craft service. I'd like sneak food and shit because I was so poor. But it was more of like a social like fitting in thing that I didn't know how to communicate

or be like in a party environment or something without alcohol. Even when I was broke, what I would do is I'd go to, like, if I knew I was going out or had to be somewhere, I wouldn't buy any drinks at the place, but I would pregame enough that it'd feel good when I got there. And that's like, that's the cycle we see a lot of times. It's like the nervous, shy, your word, not mine, dorky kid, right? Like gets to college, understands that alcohol can kind of be this lubrication. Yep. And then that becomes really necessary to go out or interact or to have any of these meaningful moments in our minds so that when we go. able to get sober, how can I go out and just be myself, right? Well, even taking a step further was like, how could I extend that experience and like that feeling?

Because a couple drinks in, I felt like the fucking man. I felt like I would argue with my buddies. If I had like maybe two old fashions, a little bit of cocaine, I was like unbelievable. Like funny, smart, witty, had it all. But then obviously there's the other side of that, which was not great. But you get kind of accustomed to like this is like before working out or going to the gym now. Like I take an element electrolyte powder. I drink enough water.

I have a little bit of a banana. Like you have your like pregame plan. I used to do that. And if you don't have it, you're not on. I wasn't going to have a good night or I wasn't going to be flirty with the girl I wanted to. So it became alcohol and then Adderall. I actually had gotten a prescription at Syracuse from Adderall was blowing up at that time. We called him study buddies.

Yeah. It was the original name for studying. And then I realized you could take them and drink all day. Yeah. I took one at the Preakness in Baltimore. I'll still, like, never forget. I took this like 30 milligram Adderall and I was flying to the moon and like drank all these beers.

The next day I was in shambles because like my body was like withdrawing and all the things. The only way to feel better is take more Adderall and drink more. But that was like the first time I remember feeling like that withdrawal feeling. after drinking like a it was just for fun to drink yeah it's terrifying it's terrifying because you like how is this ever going to like my head and all those feelings but it's that cycle you get caught in I realize for me my sweet spot was alcohol adderall or cocaine but I didn't always express that to other people you know I would be drinking you'd know I was drinking but I had a bag in my pocket the whole time but if you

said something about getting coke I'd be like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah So friends of family knew what they didn't know. I thought they didn't know. Right. But there was a powerful point in my kind of beginning of my recovery where I had some adults that I've worked pretty closely with over the last 10 years, adults that I respect highly, significantly older than me, who'd seen me in kind of in the trenches, some of the reality TV stuff I've done, who basically were like, you need to get some help.

And I was like, yeah, it'll be my drinking. And they're like, is it just your drinking? And the way they said that, I told the story. a lot because it I in that moment finally realized that everybody knew right it wasn't just the alcohol it was coke it was Adderall was these other substances but the way this woman who I didn't realize like she's like we know like really and it just shattered my world because I thought for a long all this time especially the stigma and shame the stigma and shame around heroin certainly massive the stigma and shame around cocaine alcohol but like to me in my moment

cocaine was this like other level of like shittiness and brutal like no one really is that outward about cocaine addiction because it's like such a sounds horrible versus alcoholism it almost sounds different than heroin at like and I just could not wrap my head around being honest about that part I was like I could just talk about the booze but it was I needed that person to actually go it's not just that and you've got to be honest and I another very good friend of mine Kyle Kyle Cook he sat me down after one of my rock bottom moments was like you're gonna fucking die yeah and like dude and like the way he told me that i'm forever grateful for him because someone i really cared about and i didn't want to let him down like he i consider him like a brother to me right no you guys i always see i mean like yeah we have a great bond we have a great bond and you can tell just from what you see on the yeah he was very close you know the day that i learned about my brother passing i was i was in the summer house filming you know and i ran to him first he was like the guy i had to go tell just because i didn't know what to do but it was until after that is when i hit my rock bottom you know and he came over to my apartment

and gramercy and i was a disaster and he just was like dude i love you but you're going to fucking die if you don't get this right and it was just someone like that actually telling me i hadn't been honest about cocaine up until that point yeah i want to get to the good stuff because you've had a miraculous turnaround and it's like nothing short of that so you get cast in 2017 you go between 2017 and 2021 is when Curtis passed my brother passed in August of 2020 2020 I got sober in January of 2020 okay so those three or four years you're kind of does mental health the substance abuse watching your there's any because you're so vocal about it now does that ever cross your mind is there any but I'm going to go talk to a therapist I mean like right

while you're active in 2017 2018 2019 because or were you like I've fucking arrived now like I'm in a throne you're taken out of your life you're cast on the show all a sudden you walk down the street you're a tall handsome guy people are like oh there's carl right and like when I went on the bachelor's dad no one sat me down and said hey this is how your life is about to change sure we're just letting you know that sure and that was part of the mental health thing for me amidst everything else that even at eight years sober was very confusing because I would be at the same dinner I've had with my mom and dad a thousand times And now all of a sudden, you know, the waitress wants a photo or the person wants this or they, it messes with your head.

I don't care what anyone says. I think you, you maybe, I totally relate to what you're saying. I think the way ours unfolded, maybe a little different than The Bachelor in some regard, where Summerhouse is first season. I know we've got an OG fan over here. We were like, it took like a slow build, but in my head, I'm like, I've arrived. Yeah. I was getting, I got invited to a party in New York City the fall after we. filmed the first summer and a bunch of real housewives were there and you know media and

e-entertainment and all this things and I like wore a tuxedo and I was there for 20 minutes and I'm like having one drink and I'm like I need coke right now like this is the only way to get through this even at those events I was like being a disaster but I thought in my head like I've got the suit on I've got the you know getting some more followers to be fair you go to those events still and you're probably like I need coke ready. basically they're still kind of stuffy but I

yeah I was I like love the fact that people now recognize me but what I really struggled with was just kind of processing what I had put out there because I put a lot of stuff out there that I forgot about or blackouts or whatever

on the show you mean correct so when the show is now coming out our first season that was airing our group of friends would actually watch the show together and I would drink and watch our show back. So I was drinking watching myself drinking. And then I was using cocaine, watching myself, whatever.

So it became this kind of cycle of dealing with my performance on TV was I drank through that and didn't get therapy through that. I would blame everybody else. The editors, the producers, this, that, the other thing. I finally did get a therapist. But I wasn't honest with them. How was your week, Carl? Ah, my blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I was able to like finesse even therapy without being really fully honest.

I was talking about everybody else's shit except for mine. I wasn't honest about my drinking. I wasn't honest about my cocaine use. I was talking about my relationships and all the ups and downs, blaming reality TV. But that almost made it worse too because I just, I could not be honest with myself. That's a reoccurring theme on every one of these interviews. But I will say, I mean, I've had, I'm embarrassed still to this day about this. I mean, I've been written up in page six for verbal spats.

I was at Tom and Jerry's in Soho, maybe 2018, 2019. Been drinking all day. I don't even think I had slept that weekend. It was like a Sunday night. This girl and I started having words. And my words were very loud and I got very aggressive verbally and, like, stormed out of the bar. And it made it on to the news. I got a call from someone at the network asking, like, what happened?

I didn't remember. Things like that happened. But when do you forgive yourself, Carl? I mean, it's just, it's not, I don't know, like I hold myself to a higher caliber, even if I do make mistakes, I almost, I don't know, like it's just not who I am or who I want to be. And I feel really guilty. I have a hard time with, um, even now though. Yeah, I still feel immense guilt because I'm, I feel very lucky.

And I've had breakdowns at times in the last even year where I'm like, how the fuck am I here? Like, how did this all happen to me? Like, yeah, I put in some work and I've done the things. But I still kind of like, why me? And why do I get all these stuff? Like, I feel so fucking lucky half the time. But I also feel like I... Yeah, but I want you to feel lucky and forgive yourself.

Like, I've forgiven myself, you know? And there were plenty of times needle in the arm and not responding to people and family worried sick and certainly picking fights and blacking out. and granted, I wasn't in the public eye at the time, but I carried the guilt and shame and then eventually got to a place where, I mean, you're pouring your whole heart and soul into this thing to help others. No, I try, but it sometimes doesn't feel like enough. Like I'm ever, there's always something more I could be doing.

But I think also in the position I've been in so publicly, it feels like a little bit of pressure or almost the perception that I'm like some guru or. I don't have it all figured out I just know what's worked for me and I have amazing people that I've been supported by I've had a great sponsor that amazing connections in the sober community I've gone to

I go to meetings still I've but I still feel like Do you feel an obligation to err to be because you are public facing that you need to air out that side of yourself like look I am Carl I haven't figured it out so don't come at me there's still parts of me that hate myself

you know like honestly that's one of the one of the most accurate reads I've had in a long time. Seriously. Like I, there is an element of like, I've watched myself back too. Like I've seen season two, season three of myself.

And I'm like, that's not me. Like, I'm fucked up there. But like I impacted people that I care about. I hurt people that I didn't want to hurt. I just wasn't my true self. And I almost feel like I've done the last couple years at times

where I'm almost like trying to prove people to the, other side that's and that's okay man like i'm i'm 17 years into this thing and and honestly like you know i had did an episode of co-weeks ago and my mom listened to it and she was like we should have done more you know and i'm just like no you shouldn't have you know you did everything you could you know like it's just it's just what happened you know and why some people go this way some people go that way like sometimes it isn't because of trauma or because of some singular event it's just that's just your path you know um and so i spent a lot of time my early recovery like you know trying to help as many people as i possibly could because i felt like i had was a tornado

you know and i and you know what like despite whether i whether i was doing that for the right reasons or not i was able to help a lot of people so at the end of the day it really doesn't matter what you think about yourself you know as long it matters what you do you know and and the last thing i'll just say about forgiveness is because i've been thinking about this like because things have come up even in the last like couple months where I'm thinking about some of the behaviors I've done uh when I was younger and it's and and it's brought a lot like shame and guilt and the truth is is I do forgive myself but that doesn't prevent me from having a moment where I remember something and I think wow I wish I had behaved differently you know and I don't

think that ever goes away you know but I have so much experience of of trying to live the right way now that like that's who I am you know Yeah. So I don't know if that matter. No, that helps. I mean, I definitely forgive myself. There's been some things, you know, just in relation to my brother passing. Like I had an opportunity to see my brother while he was still alive before he had overdosed.

And I declined because I just wasn't ready. But fuck, I wish I did that because I didn't get to say goodbye to him or I didn't know that at the time that I would have had to do that. But there's a little part of me sometimes that just still feels like the, embarrassment and guilt of it like even though you know how many meanings I've been to no remember how many times I pick up people's calls or they've asked for help and I've got I really have tried to turn my a lot of my life over to help other people I still am like that's like how I treated some people on my on the show at times how I've been in I don't know just with my family I mean I've made amends I've worked the steps I've done the

things that I feel like I've needed to do I probably should do the steps again number two or you know early to revisit that but small part of me just always like feels like I like yeah it's for it's forgiveness man it's just forgiveness and it's like you know forgiveness is like the key to the kingdom right like it's not it's just like yeah I mean that's I've always been my own worst enemy in my own um in my head always me too dude come on like well the book nails that right like are the literature in AA you know selfishness self-centered that we think is the root of our troubles I mean like is there a better line that has been written I mean you know probably not

You look confused. No, I'm listening to you. Listening, yeah. But then there's another line there, right? Driven by 100 forms of fear. Just because you're getting excited about being able to quote a couple lines. Yeah, I know. I am.

I don't even, I don't even do it anymore, but I can cook because you know what? It mattered. And I do think that like, look, those things, those parts of yourself that you don't, you have forgiven yourself because otherwise you wouldn't be doing what you're doing. Yeah. You know, and. Well, if I know I'm feeling like, I mean, I met up with.

Caitlin before just chatting before we walked in here and it's been like the last 24 hours I'm like a little crunchy this morning like just yeah didn't want to get out of bed didn't didn't want to really do today yeah I just got some shit that's you know been a little not like but if I like as soon as I check in on some other person sober person or someone else in that community spent a couple minutes like it just it gets put to the back and you're like oh but I need to do that like this is what my it's telling my body right now like I'm feeling this way because I need to check in with someone else and get out of this head a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you're probably a samurai at this moment, like, around the comments, right?

Like, I'll read a negative comment about myself or there'll be something that someone says, and I will, I used to spiral for days. You know, it's like, how could this be written about me? And then when I really get down to causes and conditions, like Jane lives in North Dakota, Jane does not know me, Jane does not know anything. She's just using this message board or Instagram comment section to say something about me that's just her. her trauma, right, that she believes about me because someone else in her life, whatever it is. And for you, man, I mean, I know you've received a lot of that garbage. And it's, I mean, I, the part I struggle the most with the comments is because there's really beautiful messages too. Of course. And the di- like the juxtaposition between the two or four, 10, or a thousand,

that's where I struggle is you'll have meaningful, really powerful people reach out, Not powerful people, but individuals whose stories and things that relate to me, you're amazing. And then the next one, you're a piece of shit, whatever it is. That's where I've struggled a little bit. But you answered it perfectly, which is a lot of my work, I go in and look at the picture of the profile. And more often not, it's like a little random dog and it's not even a real profile. Try a bot. Even anybody, like, think about setting up a fake account and going and doing, like, I wouldn't go get advice from that person.

on mental health, why would I go get advice from them on something about myself? But I also do believe it's calling out something in themselves that, or I'm bringing out something in themselves that they're uncomfortable with, whether it could be a variety of reasons. But it's almost like I feel sorry for them, that you would even go to that level. But how do I respond, because there's a part of me that wants to feel, like I feel a calling to help people, but in a way that's, I mean, I feel like Zach has the, calling of helping and he's done an incredible job and you guys have done amazing stuff but i i haven't built a recovery center i haven't started an amazing non-profit to help other people

in this community like what you both have done and i kind of compare myself and it's like i haven't done it but i'll just make sure but i guess what let me tell you i hear you i feel the same way about you yeah i look at soft bar i look at some of the other ventures you're doing it's like it's all jealousy man I can look at what you have and I'll be through the people event you were just at right I got invited to that I was too scared to go I was too scared to go you know why because I tell myself I'm not worthy to be there I won't know anyone it's a waste of time and and and and I get crippled by anxiety and fear and I sit in my apartment and you're there smiling posting doing the thing I'm like so it's like it's two ways man I want to hear that like as a man like it's it goes two

ways and like that's the shit that I don't have to fucking worry about anymore like being something for someone yeah no you it's funny I debated on going to that event because I had another event that was important to me but I've been trying to show up when I'm feeling a little just just go for a little bit and I only went for about 45 minutes to an hour to that but I'm glad I did but I've been feeling like that at times a fair amount I don't typically I try to just fight through and just show up and just try to show up and I will say people have like some People have said this to me recently, they were like, Carl, you show up for other people. That, like, meant the world to me.

Yeah. Almost next to telling me I'm tan. But showing up for people or being known for someone that shows up for other people, like, that's an amazing thing to be known for versus, you know, cocaine, Carl, or whatever other name you might have had in the past. But, like, showing up for others and being recognized for like that, I care a lot about that. So I've been trying to, like, remind myself before I go to an event, if I'm feeling that

that anxiousness, which I always generally feel, like, it's worth it. Like you're going to just step through that door. Just get through that door. Even if you don't want to be there for 20 minutes, stay for 20 and go. But you'll find something out about yourself if you step through that door. Yeah. I try to. But I've had days where I don't want to go.

And trust me, I've backed out and just don't go. But I try to show up. So you get the call. Thank you for sharing all that, by the way. Yeah. You get the call on Curtis in 2020. Obviously, heartbreaking. You're on the show at the time.

And then, you know, I know you've talked a lot about. that so I want to get some of the hope here um 2021 January you asked for help it sounds like there were some other people kind of like crinkling their eyebrows but what is the ultimate moment where you say you're right it was probably a year prior where my brother had still alive at this point um did you ever party with them do you ever use with your brother it's funny we went to a wedding for my cousin and we drank we drank together and he like rolled a blunt we smoked a blonde I was like the most fucked up I've ever been And I actually, we have some pictures from that wedding.

I look like I'm like really banged up. But no, I didn't really ever use her because it was always, he was on another level of shit. I mean, it just wasn't like, I was drinking beer and he was drinking, God knows what. And then the drug choices were different. But there was a small period of time. Why do you think, though, when you found out that he passed away, you had already had a couple years of beginning to see yourself and question? Why do you think then at that point You were like, I'm done

I don't like something deep inside of me It was really sad And I'm still a little, you know, sad obviously But deep down there was a lot of sadness And anger inside like I Like I could have done something more Or I don't know

Like I just felt like I had a lease Or a license to now go do whatever I fucking wanted I felt so much pain and sadness And I also had been trying before he passed away. I think that's why made it so difficult is I really wanted to get sober before he passed. I'd gone to a Tony Robbins seminar in December of 2019. COVID happened March of 2020.

So I had a really good girlfriend of mine and be like, you've got to get your shit together. You need to go to Tony Robbins in West Palm Beach. So I went to the seven-day seminar called Date with Destiny. Yeah, yeah. I'd seen the documentary on Netflix right by, before that called I Am Not Your Guru, which is an amazing Tony Robbins documentary. Some of it's a little Kool-Aid, some of it's really powerful.

But I go to Tony Robbins, and that's when I really was exploring, like, there's something more. Are you doing Coke that week? I didn't do Coke that week, but it was the first week I didn't really drink. Oh, wow. But Tony's seminar, the first day I was there, he does these, like, kind of breakthroughs, and a father and son had attended the event, and the son raises his hand, and Tony calls on him. Tony does a lot of prep work.

He knows where people are. It's not like he's just like that good, but I love Tony. He calls out this kid. He's like, you know, Tony, I'm here, me and my dad haven't spoken in four years. We're having all these issues. Is your dad here? And dad raised your hand. Dad raises his hand from another part of the place.

Dad showed up. So he gets the son and dad up on the stage and they have this amazing moment where they like work through their shit. And I had a lot of issues with my father at that time. I called my dad later that night and just like I told you I loved them. I turned everything over. like what would have been like to be 24 and giving birth to me back in 1985 and like all the like i had to really he did the best he could thank him and kind of really was beautiful like we had this

amazing moment but it was tony that kind of jump started that day i got back from tony robbins bounce sporting club which is right down the street here table service bag of coke yep up till 10 in the morning the next day yeah that that was like oh okay well i guess that didn't work COVID happened I took COVID as a chance to like really but the first day of COVID was drinking all day doing coke the whole thing but I thought to myself if I don't get a little help

here I'm going to die like I need to get this shit but my brother was still alive then but I hired a therapist who really focused on alcohol abuse but I didn't talk about coke I wasn't ready yet everything I'm talking about is alcohol alcohol alcohol but the real root always for the most part was

cocaine or other pills after that yeah but i wasn't able to be honest about that stuff um but up until we started filming that season five i had a chance to go meet my brother i declined my mom was getting remarried um because my dad had enough you know had been divorced from my mom my mom got remarried 10 days later my brother passed away but i got that call that day in the summer house and yeah like that night i remember drinking you're not getting sober then with all that going on in your life but I thought to myself like that would be like the perfect time right

but then I the other part of my body and this sounds maybe bad but I was like I don't care anymore I don't fucking care I went on it I had the brain tumor

and I had the surgery and I used that as it used to go harder yep and I also said to myself when I got out of that summer after my brother you know the filming it ended I lived in Soho

in this apartment I went back to my apartment I like did Coke it was crazy like I got to get out of this apartment so I ended up moving out of that apartment that was like my next thing I'm going to get out of this apartment

moving to do another building on 23rd and third told myself I'm not going to drink there or do any drugs there yeah two nights in you're like grammar

she's lame you know that I'll be safe here so it was my problem so it was my problem but of course not but it was just a culmination of a few things that I was drinking and using a lot by myself like I would be sitting on my

computer on like a Tuesday night at 9 p.m. sending work emails with a red bottle of wine and a jar of cocaine. That was totally normal. I also had friends and people that actually said to me they weren't they were like not going to be friends with me anymore because of my behavior was starting to really pick up. I had my financial situation. I had run it a credit card into complete oblivion my credit rating was going down i was actually late on some rent at times i owed people money i owed a drug dealer money in montauk for some period of time yeah um so i just had all these things like even though i was like realizing i had a problem i had this wave of shit coming after me now and i think that's a lot of a lot of what happens when we first get sober is like

okay now i got to deal with all this right fuck and that was like overwhelming but uh i had had a friend who I used to do a ton of coke with. And the last time I saw him, true story, we hired hookers off of a back page advertisement. It's like 2012 or 2011. I was living in Los Angeles. Drunk as hell at 3 in the morning, called random women on this internet site.

They show up at 4 in the morning. They were not to our liking. We told them to leave. They did not like that. We told them to leave. We were pepper sprayed and they basically destroyed his apartment. I picked up a liquor bottle and smashed the TV. We were all pepper sprayed.

She broke other shit. and then they stormed out. I had not spoken to him really since that night. He calls me, he texts me, he's like, yo, I heard you're getting sober on TV. I've been sober two years. I was like, oh, tell me more. He was like an alpha guy, finance guy, did really well for himself,

but him and I used to party really hard together. But he called me out. He's like, are you going to AA? I was like, no, I'm good. I got a therapist. We're talking about my alcohol. I haven't been drinking. He's like, you're not going to stay sober.

He's like, just call me back whenever you need. So I, like, took that in consideration. I was actually upset with him. I was like, fuck that guy. He ruined your drinking. And he called me on my shit. He was like, you're not going to actually, like, stay sober. And it's like, what does this guy know that?

I don't know. Now, he had had a very good career, but his career did take a big back seat because of his issues. And he was able to kind of, where he was at that point was, like, kind of inspiring. He worked at a big bank and was doing well. But he said, call me whenever you need me. So I didn't call him back for. Eight months, but it was up until that January 7th. It was like that day I can't.

How many times do you think about calling him in that eight months? Oh, all the time. I mean, the brick in your pocket, right? All the time. All the time. But it was someone like that who just doing working his program that initially got me that first little taste of like, wait, that's super successful alpha businessman. I had a cocaine problem and a hooker addiction and spent a million dollars on drugs.

and now he's got his life together okay I can relate like that's something I can relate to but I needed to hear that but I needed to be found I need to be around more like-minded or people that I can relate to more I always had this perception of some of this is like

in no offense to those that are appear this way but just like brown paper bag and dirty off of the street that was my perception of a lot of but that's the number one thing I've heard back and I'm sure you get back is I didn't know as much as I tell my story

and I get tired to tell my story just like you probably do you feel like everyone has heard it sure enough every time it gets out there there's another person I didn't know I didn't know you could be sober I didn't know you can live this way and that's why you gotta forgive yourself too

because you're doing for others what that guy did for you a thousand times over yeah well you said something before too which years ago when I was drinking and partying and I'd meet anybody in my daily partying that was sober you know what I said

fucking pussy yeah yeah like come on on. Yeah. I just, that I'm embarrassed about. Yeah. Still cringe deep down because that's not me either. You know, the person in me would be like, I'm so proud of you. Like, that's incredible. Like, you deserve to be loved and supported. But again, I was my own insecurities in my head coming out and my own fear big time. So you meet that guy and then that starts your journey working kind of chopping wood, carrying wood. And then so season six rolls around and then you're so, are you sober on that season? And that's the first time you navigate that and you start to get more and more secure. And

I mean, dude, you're out there talking about mental health, masculinity, substance abuse. I mean, all of it. You've really taken the microphone. No, thank you. I mean, when my brother had passed that particular summer, the part I struggled the most with was this is all going to air on TV. So my brother passes in August of 2020. I hit rock bottom January 6th, 2021.

But I really, I think hit rock bottom because what was about to come was my brother's episode was going to be an episode on television. And I did not know how to like wrap my head around that. It was the pain and the tragedy of it all, but having to relive it in such a public manner. You know, they were emailing me asking me what we wanted to say on the screen for that episode. I'm like, holy fuck, what do you mean?

And they're like, you know, sadly when people are being honored on a show or whatever they, in memory or in memorandum or whatever it might be, what did we want to say? I'm like, do we have to? like I went through all these feelings and all this emotion about like my brother he's even on this fucking show he hated me because I was on this show and now he's a part of an episode but then it just like over time like once I got sober and was working steps and like spending time with this sponsor it became pretty clear like this is something that hopefully can help other people

and it's going to help me hopefully help myself to then help other people but I really struggled with having to relive that whole thing over again because the season five started airing from January of 2021 through June of 2021 you know that episode that aired about my brother I mean it's still out there if anybody wants to watch it I mean it's one of the most painful things I've ever been a part of but the amount of messages and out of people that it was touched or were touched by that I believe helps people and my brother ultimately would have wanted to help people you know I've heard stories from my dad when in rehabs and recovery he was administering narcan he was the kind of the old old dog in the

heroin rooms with some of these younger kids and um Curtis my brother Curtis was always willing and so I took I remember that and that's me too like we want to help people we're strong we want to give our we would take off our shirts for someone he's with you and that's what I started to realize he is my brother's here with me this is a story that like in my head I'm like how the fuck does this happen to me I'm in my I'm in this summer house I've been doing this show for five, six years at this point. Like, you couldn't pick another weekend or another day. Like, in my eyes, the universe was, this happened because ultimately we're here to help

my brother's story could help other people. And it has, but that next summer quickly came around. So I'm processing the passing my brother again. I'm staying sober. I'm working steps. I've got all these things. I'm trying to, like, figure out how to, like, just get by. how am I going to go to the Hamptons sober now but I thought to myself like if I don't go out there

what am I going to do now so I was like I know that world but as long as I can just stay sober and get through it then it's worthwhile so I think we were talking about before but I I knew it wasn't going to be easy but I knew if I didn't go there I would have been worse because I was actually around people that I need to be around like friends and people that that knew me, but it was not easy that first time. Yeah, and that's the reason we do the things we do. So there's someone at home watching you and saying, oh, wow, not only is he back, but he showed up, he's sober, he got through it.

And that is just another notch, you know, another notch in the belt. Well, it felt like for me, I know people, places and things is really important and, you know, don't want to undermine that part of people's work, but I basically, it's kind of made up. That's bullshit too. Right. Well, I kind of went right back to people. Yeah.

But here's the thing, you're offered freedom. Yeah. Right. You're offered the ability to stand anywhere in the world and, you know, and be who you are, you know, without that shit blocking you. Totally. Well, I had immense support from Kyle, Amanda, everybody in that group. Yeah, you're not going to bullshit them. And they all knew.

Yeah. And they actually, I think over time realized, too, that I really was, I could not get out. Like, it was a, I really couldn't get out of my own way. but the version of me that they started to well the version of me that was like the core of me they knew and once I kind of got that back they were like oh my god we want like bring that version all day long even if you are you know sober or whatever it is going on so I had amazing support from the group and I don't want to underscore any of that but like I would not have been able to do that had I not had a core group of friends that were like we're so happy you're sober we love you this

way this is the car we want and that made me feel good because i was like oh wait you didn't like the other guy because i thought that was a version everybody liked no and the world starts kind of echoing back this amazing response from the people closest to you the people that really know you it's like oh what like i i realized two things one i was really not full in anyone and two this is motivation to what i would say keep going like this this is enough to do another day sober because I have people like Kyle, Amanda, these people that really truly know me and are going to call me and be honest with me like, if they liked you better party, they probably would have told you.

No, and that's what I had the revelation of like, oh fuck, I wasn't that cool. I was annoying as though probably people didn't want to be around me, all the things. It kind of like, but I've said this a lot and people ask, how do you do summer house without drinking? Right. And the answer is I wouldn't be able to do summer house if I was drinking. Right. And that was like a revelation in my head I had early on, maybe that summer, where I was like, no, this is a gift.

Yeah, I'm present. I'm here. Ten toes down in this house. Yeah, maybe a little awkward at times. Yes, it's different, but this is a gift that I'm able to do this. And I also remembered, if I can keep this up and I can keep working through this, maybe this actually could help other people too. But the first priority was me. It has to be.

And I then realized, wait, if I start taking better care. of this and share a little bit or showcase a little bit embody this a little bit that actually might help it like I didn't realize that I still had someone stopped me the other day and they're like you literally help me get sober and it like makes me like I was like my body started to warm up but I'm like that's so amazing but how the fuck did that happen right and they're like and I what I try to say back to that person I said you're going to hopefully now that you've done some work and you're embodying a more mindful lifestyle or whatever you're doing, you're going to impact someone just like I did in your life

without you even realizing it. I'm like, that's the real power. So, yeah, it's been a hell of a journey on the show. But I mean, I'm now going on season 10 or we were just... Yeah, you're like the old dog, man. You're like, you're like Phoenix Sun's Charles Barkley. You know, you're like you're leading all the old dog, the new dogs to glory. why do you still do it

because I love actually I love being able to enjoy my life now without the constraints of I was never present I was never actually there it's redemption yeah a little bit redemption a little bit

I want to just show people you can actually still overcome some things and live a better life on the other side of it sure it hasn't been all pretty I've seen some old pictures did you look better

for what it's worth physically I haven't had any surgery I did have my teeth fixed because I had to because my teeth fell out, not because of drug use. Well, probably some partially because of drug use. But I was hit in the face a few times with hockey sticks and baseballs. And over time, my teeth started to have some issues.

But I haven't had any work done. But people are like, oh, my God, alcohol and drugs, all the things. It's a fountain of youth. Getting sober is a fountain of youth. I want to be mindful of your time. You've been so generous with us. And, dude, it goes without saying. I mean, Jay, I'm sure echoes this.

like you're you're the best man I mean you are just using I mean and look there aren't a lot of us there are a lot of guys like me and you who are out there being so vocal about this I mean look I know that I lose followers who are just sick of me talking about recovery and I don't give a shit like go like go you know like um because like the people that root for me are going to root for me forever uh so give me all right I'm going to preface the soft bar conversation with this I was I was always confused by the N.A. market because I was like, if you're not going to drink, can't you just have like a club soda and lime? And then the mocktail started kind of showing up on the menus. And I was like, all right. And they're actually, they're actually good. I will,

I will admit that I was wrong and that this market is actually, I think, going to do some pretty crazy stuff. So give us the skinny on soft bar. I'm a proud investor. I'm really. It's, I believe in you. I mean, the product's going to be awesome, but tell the people what you're doing in Brooklyn. You've got the brick and mortar going. Yeah. So when I... I see, you light up the second we even asked.

I know, I got excited. Because see, it's just a second nature. It doesn't even feel like work. Like half the time I'm just putting out there what I'm hoping to see for myself in some ways. But I, you know, I've worked in the alcohol industry, funny enough, which wasn't a part of my story here. But it should have been Kyle and Amanda and I started basically an alcohol company. I mean, they were the originators. but I was at an alcohol company

while drinking lots of alcohol while having a problem but finally saw like the writing on the wall and we did launch non-alcoholic products but it was through that I realized that I think there still needs to be a place that looks and feels just like a cool bar cafe that there's zero alcohol

but what there is is really great drinks functional drinks that make you feel good nothing mind altering but quality products but an experience that is elevated and fun we've all been to well most of us have been to some church basements i love church basements don't get me wrong they've saved my life but when i'm socializing outside of that i'm looking for something that feels and looks like the other cool and elevated spots but

most of those places are very limited and they're non-alcohols so i don't drink alcohol and i don't drink coffee so i like don't exist in new york city i'm serious like i don't coffee makes me more anxious and jittery, which is the exact opposite of what I want to do in the morning. I want to be focused and calm. So I've been using other supplements, cacao or matcha. I've tried, you know, some of the mushroom coffees, not the psychedelics, but just things that kind of deliver a more calming, focused thing. But right now, those products are only available really online.

So what I wanted to create was an all-day experience. We can come any time a day, have a great cup of coffee, if that's what you like, or an alternative cup of coffee. Into the day, we also have programming events. It's a common third space. It's a meeting place. So soft bar was born last summer. I wanted to really create something that redefined the non-alcoholic experience.

Now, I'm with you. I even thought the same, like Heineken Zero. Why do you even need this? And a lot of it is the psychology around it, just holding something in your hands. It sends a signal to the other people around you that you're partaking in some way and you're celebrating. And just because you're not drinking alcohol doesn't mean you deserve less, you know, It doesn't mean you deserve something sugary or terrible for you, too, because a lot of the non-alc products out there, not a lot.

Some of them are not as healthy for you. Yes, you're not drinking alcohol, but you're adding more sugar in things. So I wanted to, like, create healthy non-alc, zero sugar non-alc, but also fun non-alc. And we have a really cool place in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. It was a auto body as early as the 1930s. I have an old industrial building with a garage, but it's located on a street where there's really popular restaurants and hospitality. Bandit run clubs there, vital rock climbing gym. There's a lot. Other ship is over there. A lot of cool wellness and fitness going on.

And I think wellness and fitness needs places to gather after too. I mean, sure, people go to Blank Street or Blue Haven. But there isn't a lot of options there if you don't drink coffee or alcohol. So I believe we can be a great meeting place for the wellness community, the fitness community, the sober community. But it's all about having a great experience. zero alcohol. And to my knowledge, there really isn't an all-day experience that doesn't revolve. No, there's people that have tried. But I feel, I mean, I've been on some of the calls, obviously. I'm privy to some information. Yeah, he knows the inside. It's going to kick ass. Prove the model and scale. Correct. We want to stand up this location first,

prove this model out. You know, I have a lot of excited people in other cities and markets because of the exposure of the show and the awareness that, you know, I'm very lucky to have. But we got to get the first one right. Yeah. And I want to make a lot of grand opening that's the one thing my dad taught me you get one chance to open yep got to do it right once and it's risky obviously brick and mortar is a risky business i knew that would be the case but i'm at a place now where i was going to go do this if i fall on my face i follow my face but i'm gonna learn something along the way and whatever that might be will lead me to my next thing i want it to be this i believe it will be this but sometimes you just got to jump the merch is cool enough

just for it to be this hell yeah well i i was on celebrity family feud a few years ago this is random but i got to tell it and steve harvey was our host and he's pretty funny steve harvey wasn't successful or did anything in his life until like late 30s or early 40s he was a shoe salesman in cleveland and i didn't know this but like i was told this and then he has a book called jump and it was like a hundred page book but honestly it's one of the best books I've ever read. And I read this book jump. And honestly, you just got to like, it's simple as hell the way he explains it. But he put himself in positions where it's like you force yourself. You just got to fucking jump and figure it out. And that's what you're going to learn along the

way. Thank you, Steve Harvey. But big part of me wanting to put soft bar out there was like, I'm doing this. And if I'm known for falling my face, it is what it is. But I got to jump because it feels like what I'm supposed to be doing. Look, man, I see a guy who, you know, for freshman year showed up, went to church. I see a guy who's like wearing the fashionable clothes and not giving a fuck what people say. I see a guy as willing to take some risks and lean into who you are. I, you know, man, it is, it is going to go because you're behind it. And I believe that you can have your own self-doubt because that's going to fuel you. Every entrepreneur has it. But it's going to be awesome. I think the imposter syndrome, which is a topic, I know you've

explored a little bit on your show here and even you know 17 years you're 14 in August hopefully fucking amazing like inspiring is how and incredible accomplishment and like I look at my little over four years and I sometimes worry being in this position I'm in where you know I'm not a doctor or a guru I'm not a therapist but you're almost perceived as such yeah and that's a beautiful thing but in some ways it feels disingenuous to me because I'm not an expert you guys do the real work here and you've done amazing work with these communities and therapists and doctors. I can point people in the direction. I can be really honest,

but I felt like at times like I get more credit than I deserve. And I'm trying to like kind of table some of that feeling because it's like just a regular guy. Yeah. You know, fell to his knees from alcohol, cocaine and countless other substances. And here I am, but I get a lot more praise and accolades. And I feel there's other folks who do a lot of work in this community that maybe deserve more. That's cool. So I try to pass that back to the others and just try to be an advocate for mental health community, the sober community, the heroin community.

Because, I mean, I still, I mean, my brother's story is permeated throughout. I get people stop me all the time that have lost siblings and loved ones to this disease. And it's why I keep coming back. I think we covered anything where I mean, cake eater comes out. The book is in the... Yeah, so I don't know about you guys. I never thought of myself as writing a book ever until a couple years ago when I was at an event and a woman raised her hand for like a Q&A. It was a Bravo thing.

Hey, Carl, have you ever thought about writing a book? And I was like, in that moment, I'm like, sure, yeah, I'd seen other people on other shows, written books. But over some time, I realized, I was like, maybe I shouldn't tell my story because there's a lot more about me. It's your story. People don't know. And they're leading up to my part on, you know, Summer House growing up in Pittsburgh. Growing up, you know, in the South Hills and all the things, I think there's a lot more to me that actually, as I wrote it, I learned a lot more about myself too. And I'm excited to share it with people because I think it's going to be a little different than what you maybe are expecting.

I mean, it's a tell all. It's a memoir about everything I've been through. But there's a few different things that happen to me that really have shaped a part of my addiction and my relationship with myself. And I'm really proud of because I feel like it's a, I discovered more about myself after I kind of wrote it. And I think people are hopefully going to find one little thing in there that maybe gets some help or makes them feel confident to go ask for help or feel less alone because I feel there's a lot of isolation out there. Yeah, I'm glad you said.

I mean, like just to close, like I feel like we talk about recovery a lot and substance. But like this whole these conversations are about just making positive change in whatever it is that you are struggling with. Like it doesn't have to be about the drink and the drug. I mean, it could just be one behavior in your life that you're not proud of and they pick up one thing in your book that helps them to do that. I mean, that's a win. Totally.

And that's all I, that's all I've ever wanted to do. If I can help one person who watches Summerhouse, feel less alone. You help Sarah, so you want. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's important to show also, like, representation matters. Like, Zach on the TV, like, I remember your one glass of water when everyone else had champagne. And when you go out, like, you're coming back pretty late, Carl. Like, you can still hang. So I think that, like, thank you, Red Bull.

Yeah, representation matters of, like, going out and seeing that, like, it's actually like not a big deal to go out. Yeah. Trying to normalize and, I don't know, wrap my arms around it all and try to make people feel like, I just have more acceptance. I woke up to a comment this morning

and it fucked me up. I'm not going to lie. But it's just, you nailed it with how you've kind of responded to some of those comments and poor Susie in North Dakota or wherever she is. Dude, I just, I've never clapped back.

Susie. I used to clap back drunkenly. Yeah, never works. Well, dude, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of your friend. Thank you for coming. I appreciate you. I'm being super generous to your time.

I feel bad, but whatever. It's going to help someone, so we do it. We want to help. Thank you, bro. Thank you. Peace.