The Zac Clark Show - Building a Community One Step at a Time: Tommie Runz on Being Black, Sober, and Leading a Movement in Running

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

In this episode, we sit down with Tommie Runz, a man whose journey through sobriety, fatherhood, and fitness has led him to become a powerful voice in the running and wellness community. Sober since 2017, Tommie has transformed his life through running, completing four marathons in roughly eight weeks and qualifying for the Boston Marathon in 2021. He's the founder of Chip Time Running and the creator of The Run Eat Sleep Show podcast, where he discusses all things running and wellness. Tommie shares his story of overcoming alcohol use disorder, the impact of his father's death, and how running became a pivotal part of his recovery and personal transformation. We dive into his mission to build a community around running, mindfulness, and self-improvement, particularly focusing on empowering people of color in a predominantly white running space. Tommie talks candidly about the underrepresentation of BIPOC individuals in the running community, the unique challenges they face, and his efforts to promote health and wellness in these communities. Join us as Tommie discusses the importance of being open about his sobriety, the inspiration behind Chip Time Running, and his ongoing work to create a supportive, inclusive environment for all runners. This episode is not just about running; it's about resilience, community, and the power of turning personal struggles into a force for positive change. Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery

All right. Welcome back to the Zach Clark show. I mean, when you think of cool, like this guy is just cool. He walks in the room. He's cool. Tommy runs. I am pumped. You're here, bro. Man, I'm pumped. I'm here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. This guy, we became Instagram friends, how we do in kind of like the running community and we've been following each other. And then all of a sudden one day I click on his profile and you hit people. right in the mouth black sober runner let's start there man like like why do you feel like that's that's i mean that's telling people what's up yeah i mean at first it was like it was i was it was all about the the sober part first because like that's what i needed um because if somebody asked me well like

what's most important to me sobriety's first and then kids and then everything else you know because i think without i know without sobriety so he's sober sober yeah yeah yeah I mean, because, like, without sobriety, then I just wouldn't, I wouldn't, I just don't think I'd be here, you know, and if I was here, I would not be the person that my kids have come to know for the last, like, seven years, you know? So I lead with that, but then I'm obviously black first, you know, and the running part, like, it's black, sober runner is, and vegan, too, on top of that. It's just not something that, like, I grew up seeing.

I mean, none of the three. So I like showing people and starting with that Like if you're coming to me to for anything To follow me to work with me or whatever I just I need you to know where we're starting at And I feel like that's that's where you got to put it right in the bio Bro like let them know I love that coming in with the Van Halen shirt on

And just owning it all I love it I love it So how long you sober? Seven years over seven years yeah Yeah January 11th 2017. Okay. I'll remember that because of my real birthday is the 17th.

You're sober Capricorn. Okay, okay. Anyway, so where'd you grow up? I grew up in, just outside of Detroit. Okay. And so like I lived in, my grandparents and all that lived in Detroit. My mom had us like in Southfield just outside of Detroit and raised me and my sister. As best to you could my father pass when I was eight.

He died of a stroke at 39 years old. No shit. Yeah, so it's like. Do you remember that? I do. I do. Yeah, yeah. You know how like childhood memories are weird? Like you only remember, like, I wish I could remember more about them, you know, more of the good things, you know? But it's just like I remember like that day like it was like yesterday. You know what I mean? And I'm I'm 39 now and about to turn 40. So like I've officially like outlived him, which is a weird thing to say in the feel. And that's partly why like what led me to sobriety in general. But yeah, yeah, so I grew up in, just outside of Detroit, and my mom did an amazing job and with her family. She's so around? Yeah, yeah, for sure.

She's in Savannah, so I guess if you call that around. Yeah. But, yeah, no, she's actually been really involved lately. Like, she's, like, the last couple of years, she's come to a lot of my races. She was in Berlin with me last year in London. And now she, like, is, like, kind of like my manager a bit. Like, she's on some of the calls with me to kind of, like, as I'm talking to brands and stuff like that, she'll jump on the call so she's just been like we used to get her mother's day cards and father's

day cards because she like had to play both of those roles and she just did an amazing job at that along with like my grandparents or whatever but yeah it's been it was it was cool life but it was like i definitely carried a lot of like confusion i guess when it comes to like how i should feel about everything and and then i think that led to some choices that that has me sober here today yeah no i'm just i'm sitting here thinking how beautiful that is and I mean my sobriety has made me so much more thoughtful and I sit down with you

and when your social media friends with someone you don't know what's gonna happen when you finally sit down with them and I just feel so comfortable sitting here with you probably because we have a little bit of that shared experience you know being out there drinking drug and whatever it is and then

you know kind of coming out of the darkness and into the light so when your dad dies at eight your mom's raising you and your sister when does when does the drinking or drug and I don't know your story so when does that really start to ramp? Yeah so like drinking

started for me like a senior year high school like I remember it was crazy my friend just randomly brought a drink and he's just like you want one of these like nips or whatever I'm like sure like that was the first time I really drank like I had like tasted beer before like a little bit

but like he had me I took this drink and like at that moment like just didn't feel it just felt lighter felt like I just didn't care as much of what people thought all like all these like illusions are like this like the inhibition was gone and I was like immediately like this is something for me you know this is something for me and so like from that moment it was just like off to the races like we are best friends me and drinking and this is what we're going to do and then over time it's like this is unfortunately like who I am and there and there's like no separating the two but I started then and like I had to

had signs early that like I probably should stop you know like within two weeks of me starting drinking I was I woke up in the in the school on the floor high school high school in the bathroom my mom standing over me the principal and like the police liaison for the school like two weeks into like my drinking ever right and that would have been a sign of like okay this isn't for you like you can't handle it but I'm like okay let's let's double back you know and let's try to like plan this differently maybe we'll start with beer instead of like liquor you know and that's when i knew like i should have known then i had a problem like because anybody else would have been like scared straight at that moment right but i was like

nah let's let's just let's start this over but let's do it the right way let's maybe we started too fast you know and then ramp back up into like you know drinking from 17 to 33 you know so 16 years yeah yeah and for you so We're seeing a lot more talk about trauma, our childhood, our experiences, what makes us drink, what makes us abuse substances. Do you, when you started drinking or over those 16 years, do you feel like you were just kind of born with this thing? Were you drinking at something or what was?

I mean, I don't know. Like, it just felt so comfortable for me. Like, it felt, like I said, it gave me a part of me that I'd like maybe just, I didn't, I didn't have. I don't know if I was like drinking at the fact that I lost my father at a young age, but I mean, I don't even think I was old enough to think about it like that. Like, oh, I'm sad or I'm angry or I'm depressed, so I'm going to drink. It was just like I had it and I'm like, I don't feel whatever that is anymore, you know? And I think I was like an anxious kind of kid like thinking about what everybody else was like thinking about me because

I wanted to like fit something. And that's alcoholism. Yeah. And it was just like, Now that I had that drink, I didn't feel that anymore. And then I also, because drinking's cool, I guess, you know, like in high school, then all of a sudden now you have, like, you're getting more like praise or whatever in those moments. So I was like, this is for me. And then I just used it however I needed to. Like, if you drink because you're happy, you drink because you're sad, you drink because you had a bad day, you had a good day, all that stuff.

So it was like whatever came at me, like drinking was able to, I was able to fit that in that moment. And just like, this is why, you know. I had a lot of excuses of why I drank, really. And were you, was running in your life, that? Were you an athlete? No, no. Nothing. I mean, I golfed in high school.

Okay. So, like, I was, like, decent at that, I guess. And then. You still playing? No, man, I had to decide, like, okay, like, how much are you going to run 50, 60, 70 miles a a week, or you're going to golf, you know, like, you got to decide when you got, like, kids and stuff like that. Because I'm, like, I'm the type of, so maybe it's an addictive personality vibe.

but like if I go to the if I go golf one time right now like I have to go to the driver range the next day I got to go like the rest of the week I got to get back out on the course you know so like I can't do like the you know the the casual golfing right especially when you start putting yourself out there like that's what I find right on whether it's on social media or just life in general or people start to note who you are it's like I got to be good at whatever I'm doing because yeah yeah I mean that's the for me that's the ego I don't I'm not gonna you know no I mean I think I think it's ego for sure.

Like, I don't know if it was like that. Like, I got to prove it. But I just, I just don't like, I'm like all in or all like or not, you know. And that's just happened to be like how it was for drinking too. And that's when I knew like, along the way I knew like there was, there is going to be no casual moments of like, oh, I can, I can just go to a party and drink or whatever. And every now and then or whatever. So I knew that if me and drinking ever broke up, it was going to be final. You know what I mean?

but yeah like so i i wasn't wasn't very you know into sports and stuff like that i i played with all the friends and the neighborhood and all that stuff so i played all the sports when it came to like that but it was it was once i stopped like golfing that was like pretty much like a sedentary lifestyle from from then on you know you still are you still connected to any of the kids you grew up with like yeah yeah yeah like just just a few i was i was always like a small circle type of guy you know like i always had like two three friends that i could yeah like i just didn't ever like having too many personalities to either balance or get close enough to me where they maybe know more about me than I needed them to, you know? Like, so if I got two

or three of y'all, I'm good, right? And like, right now, I kind of joke with my friends now because I have like five or six of them. And I'm like, I don't know what are you are? Somebody got to go. But like, no, it's, it's cool to have like a couple of them still that I can, that like know me and know everything that I've been through. I'm very open, too, you know, about, like, if something, I'm not going to, like, hide the fact I don't hide anything, like, when it comes to, like, sobriety or, like, the journey or, like, why I'm here, because some of it's, like, possibly embarrassing, you know? But the fact that I'm, like, able and willing to talk about it, I think makes it a little

less embarrassing for maybe somebody else that's going through it. So I don't have any, like, I don't have any moments where I don't, where I can. can't share, you know, which is kind of funny, but like sometimes when I say something like, maybe I shouldn't have said that on a podcast, but it is what it is because somebody's going to watch it one day and be like, okay, like maybe I can head that way too. Right. No, I mean, that's, it's interesting that you talk about that because when we started this podcast, right, it's all about we want to connect with stories. I want to connect with people who have a purpose and who are comfortable sharing, you know, whether it's sobriety or like,

I have, you know, I have my sister on and she had some stuff go on where she lost a kid. And so, like, whatever it is, we want to talk to people who are comfortable, and it's funny, like, you'll, we'll get little inklings that, hey, so-and-so sober, like, we'll DM them or, and people don't want to talk about it. Because I think of that stigma. Yeah. I mean, I guess, I mean, if you're in, like, some type of a certain, like, industry or profession, maybe that's, like, a thing where you got to, like, you can't divulge that information. but I mean the way I look at it is you know people sharing their stories authentically and like truthfully in in rooms saved my life you know because when I walked into the first one ever I people in that room didn't look like me there were just to be they were middle age to

older white people that had nice cars outside that I saw walking in and I'm like this ain't for me but I'll just go in this one time and I'm out right and like because There's no way that these people are going to understand, like, understand, like, how I feel or what I've been through. And then I heard, you know, 15 people just, like, tell my story in different ways, but about their own lives, you know? And that's when I knew. I'm like, okay, I'm an alcoholic, and I just got to figure this out, like, how do I move forward, you know? And so I had this opportunity to be on a podcast or, like, this, like, live thing with, these folks called From Believe in the Run, they had me on for, like, 30-minute little spot on live. back when people are doing like IG lives all the time and then they're like he's like yeah jump on we can talk about whatever and then he kind of asked me some questions and then I halfway answered and like pivoted away from like my real answer and then I got off of the thing and I felt so bad I felt like if you ever have another chance for someone that give you their platform or share their platform and ask you a question about something you're not doing this whole thing just to like fake tell stories you know so tell the story all the way through

through or tell your story all the way through, because why else are we doing this, you know? And then that's the moment when I was like, the next podcast I got on, I'm just told it is what it is, who I am, and here's what I've learned along the way. And that's what I'm gonna do, you know, and no matter how many times we tell the same story over and over, somebody, that's the point is like somebody may walk into a room

and hear you tell your truth. And it doesn't have to be about addiction. I mean, whatever it is, it's about representation, or depression or whatever it is, if you just tell your story all the way through and don't worry about, like, what'll get clicks and stuff like that, maybe you could, like, change somebody's life. Yeah.

No, it's so true. And I remember, for me, right, like the first time I'm getting ready to tell my story in an environment or in a meeting or whatever it was, and I'm talking to someone before, and I said, like, I'm really nervous. And they said, there's only one story, man. That's the truth.

Yeah. There's only one story. have to make anything up those days are over and when he said that I kind of felt this sense of ease and comfort and it has helped me

understand over the years that if I tell my story and someone doesn't relate to it or whatever it is they want to judge it that's okay like I just don't I don't need that person

you know and I don't need their opinion because for me at the end of the day being honest and being vulnerable is a huge part of who I am and I'm just you know on a daily basis trying to embrace that so I love I love you for that I love that you're you're willing to share it so I want to backtrack because I want to get into the running and some of the representation stuff and just everything that you stand for which I you know I always say like you spend enough time with social media it's hard to get inspired but you're one one of those people that I see stuff I'm like this guy really wants to make the world a better place like he really gives a shit about

people which is which is rare you know which is rare uh so you were sharing before we started you have a 17 year old and a 14 year old you're almost 40 you got sober at 33 so i'm doing the math here there was probably a good what 10 years where you had kids and you were still ripping and running or what did that look like yeah yeah yeah i didn't even think about like that um yeah so she was 10 when i got sober my daughter um um yeah I don't even remember it looked like a dad that like kind of just didn't do anything you know but work you know like the cool part was a cool and scary part for me was that like I had I was like the functional alcoholic you know and so like I had I started the job and I made my way up I made good money I wasn't I didn't lose my job and that's not why I went so you know decided to go sober I didn't get any trouble I made the decision decision on my own you know and that was kind of the scary part because I didn't have any like reason I'm just going to stop you there for say I think that's important for people to

hear there was no yeah legal like you yeah we can get sober just because yeah want to get sober yeah like I mean I had to hit my my version of rock bottom probably you know and or if I if that wasn't it I don't want to know what the next step was for real because like that was scary enough you know and it's like so it was that that That was like the, that's like the deception or like the trick that I kind of like want to talk about more often is the fact that, you know, just because everything is working doesn't mean it couldn't either work better or that the way it's working is dangerous for you, your family, or whoever else you're around in the long run. And so, you know, that was like, that was like what it was. I was just like the guy that was just kind of like working or kind of fake working too. like I'd be working but also just like drinking on the job and doing everything that like you're just not supposed to do and trying to hide it a little bit like obviously they knew I drank but no one knew like to the extent of which like nobody saw me like finish the drink you know at 7 in the morning when I woke up that I like hadn't finished the night before like nobody knew like how much it was going on and so like I had to like live with that and try my best to like be normal around my daughter you know.

as she got older and like i had like i'd like to think she didn't at 10 didn't like know like dad's like you know wasted right now but um i tried my best to like make it look normal as possible um so my son luckily for him i mean he's uh he was like what seven or eight so he didn't i'm sure he had like yeah he had no idea but um i'm glad though because like now every the person the guy that he knows like he probably never he just knows a guy that runs and doesn't drink um and is like taking a chance at like doing stuff and then even my daughter if she does remember it by now she probably like mixed she does it she probably can't like you know separate who is who and she probably she definitely has more good dad than maybe the drunk dad um and that makes me like super proud of

because, like, the memories I have of my father were, like, the few that I have were good, you know? Like, I don't have any weird memories about him, you know? And he was a drinker, too, but I'm not sure, like, to what extent. And I'm just happy that, like, I'm here with them still because it may be a decision I made or a sacrifice at the time feel like a sacrifice, a decision or sacrifice that I made to be here longer for them, you know? So, yeah, I don't know, it's cool. It's super cool now because, like,

I don't do anything in front of them that like that I'd have to say no don't do it no don't do this let this just be a dad thing you know yeah I mean I don't have kids but I've thought about that right like as a sober person how do I create an environment where I'm not telling my kids what to do and allowing them to have that experience even though everything inside of me would probably want to tell them to not drink or not experiment or not do the things that I did for years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know.

Like, I haven't gotten to that, like, she's 17, so it's like, I'm hoping that I don't have to have that conversation any times. I guess I started at 17, too, though. But, so it's like, I'm trying my best to not overkill the fact that I'm sober. Like, you know,

just she knows it now, but I don't, like, talk about it every day. Like, you know, this is the, you know, I don't want to act like I'm teaching or something and then have her more curious about it than she needs to be. But there's people in our family that drink, you know, like she's seen people drink and she's seen the good and bad side of drinking,

maybe, you know, and then, but she's also seen me be the same all the way through it all, and hopefully some of the decisions I make are because I'm sober, and maybe she aligns those things like, okay, maybe I don't need to drink like these people are. Right. So January 10th, 2017? 11th. January 11th, 2017. Oh, the day before.

Okay, now we're talking. Now we're getting into the darkness. I know what happened on January 11th. We got struck, you know. What was going on? What did it look like? Bring me, bring me into that moment and why you finally put your hand up and surrendered to this beautiful life that we have. Yeah, man, it was, it was like a bunch of things.

It was like that, that, like, nagging memory of, like, you know, your dad died at 39 and left you and your sister here just to figure. out you know what I mean and then but I was feeling like it was I was feeling like physical things at one point where I could like if I could like click my fingers together it was a delayed feeling like by a second you know to the touch it was like just strange stuff going on high blood pressure I was at 32 33 taking like blood pressure medicine every day and I was supposed to take it forever you're never going to be able to get off this stuff but then also it was just every time that I would I knew I had a problem I mean I knew I had a problem for a long time like and it was just I just tried to make light of it make jokes about it and all that stuff but

every time that I would like try to stop for like you know January first I'm gonna at least go dry January or try to stop for a week or two weeks or whatever it was I'd never last for like it'd be like a day or two or three and then I would be drinking again and so that last time my um I um it was like me and my friend who I'm still friends with now from back in the day he's like Every time I would say, I'm like, yeah, man, we should stop drinking. He'd be like, all right, let's do it. Let's take some time off, you know. And he would somehow be able to make it happen, but I would never, I'd always be the one to fold.

So like January 1st, 2017, we're like, we're going to do this. We're going to go all of all of January. And on the 4th of January, like, at his house, he had drinks there because his wife was drinking too. And I woke up at like four in the morning. And like, I went to sleep sober. and I'm like, this is great. We're four days in. Woke up at four in the morning

and then like, I'm just going to have a drink. And then drank like three drinks and woke up feeling so dumb and stupid and miserable, right? And I just felt it wasn't, it wasn't, no one cared. Like, it wasn't like they didn't judge me. They didn't matter.

But I felt so low and just defeated. Like, because I just felt like I was waking up every day a loser. Like every time I would wake up and try to win the day, I would lose. And it was the, weirdest, darkest, most depressing thing that you could, like, that I could imagine that I could do to yourself, you know? And so my mom called me one day and just, she always checked in

because she was living in other states. So every time she'd check in, she'd like, how's my son doing? And I'd be like, oh, great, blah, blah, and I'd try to, like, sober up real quick, talk to her, you know? And then one day she called me, and then she was like, how's my son doing? And I'm like, not so good. And I just decided to tell the truth. She didn't ask why, but she was like, well, you got, like, employee assistance programs, probably. You got. You got insurance, reach out to them, talk to them, and they'll get you somebody to talk to, and you might not have to pay for one or two or three sessions or whatever. And so the employee system, people called me, and I decided at that moment, again, to actually

tell them the truth. And I told them, they're like, how many drinks do you do? And I normally would be like, you know, one or two, do it, you know? And I was like, five, six, seven, eight, depending on whatever it is. And they're like, okay. and then they got me to a therapist and I decided to like when I was going to meet her January 10th I was going to meet her on the January 11th and I'm like I had to drink it like 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock or something like that I'm like I can't go here drunk right or smelling like alcohol so I'm not going to drink in the morning when I wake up I'm just going to go to this thing see what happens and then when I got there she asked me the same questions and I told her all of the truth and like those three like truth like say that my life you know and at that moment she was like you know what there's a there's a thing called hey i'm sure you heard of it i have a client that is okay with me referring people to him to go yeah

so she's like you can meet up with him on sunday this was wednesday she's like um meet up with him go in the meeting he's a cool guy and if you like it great if you don't whatever and i decided from that point let me try to go a few more days i don't want to maybe something's happening here let's not drink between now in this meeting and then hit that meeting and it was just like let's go almost every i love that man congratulations i mean i love it and i just i think of my own story and the countless other stories of recovery that i've that i've heard over the years and almost every one of them starts with that moment of clarity that one second that that window opens where we get honest and we tell someone like for me i always joke

it wasn't a therapist, it wasn't a doctor it was a bank teller that kind of swooped in and saved my life and gave this opportunity for my dad to walk in and say like son we're going home which I still get goosebumps every time I say it which meant I was going to treatment and my journey was starting

but for whatever reason alcoholics, drug addicts people with substance abuse issues we love to lie we love to make it seem you know less severe than it really is yeah yeah like i mean i would i would drink all at home and i'd go to parties and then not drink much you know like because i just didn't want people to know

like how wild it was like and how uncontrollable it was so i'd already get there kind of drunk you know and then like oh yeah he's he's normal he only had a couple you know and then he left but that's like because i'm like about to crash out right now i got to get to the crib um but yeah it's just it's is it's just it's like when I look back at how much of my life was a lie you know like every moment of it really was even to myself and that's like the that was the part that was just like kind of eat away at you I mean it's hard it's hard enough to like to lie to people that that you that love you and you love back but it's when it's like to a point where you don't even know like what to believe

when you say it to yourself that's wild because you can't even trust yourself at that point it's the story the life I lived for 27 years until I got sober

and I identify with that so my second favorite story for me personally is like after I get sober when I get messages from people right there's two things that the most the two most frequent questions I get are how to get sober And I'll respond to those because I love that.

And I try to just be a good servant to our community in that regard. And then the second is, how'd you start running? I hate running. I can't run. And I was a guy for, I mean, I played three sports growing up for 20, you know, like the whole thing. I never could run. I never could run. And I'll never forget my story, my running journey.

And I want to, yours is coming next. That's why I'm prefacing it. I was in rehab. I was about two months. I stayed in rehab for four months. And I was there for about two months, and I had looked in the mirror, right? And I had really just said, okay, like, I don't like what's looking back on me. Because I put on a lot of weight, I was probably 245, 250 pounds, I think, at intake and got into treatment and kind of ate my way to 255 or whatever it was.

And for me, there was this hill outside of the treatment center, and I just started walking. I just started walking up the hill and walking back down and walking up. the hill and I would get up super early and all the therapists would kind of be driving in I got so crazy with it that they actually ended up put me in a in a body image group because they thought I was trying to like lose so much weight so quickly which I probably was but you know man it started on that hill and I ran casually for a couple years and then eventually watched the new I moved to New York and watched the New York City marathon in I guess like 12 or 13 one of them was canceled in there because of Sandy and then

ran my first in 14 or 13. This will be my 10th this year. I've done it every year since I did it. But what about you? Like how did you start running? Man. I mean it was like it was for me like I got so I got sober and then all of a sudden it was like I got like time and like energy to do stuff and then I started going to the gym and lifting weights and like kind of doing that and going six days a week for that just because I had to I got to go all in and I got kind of buffing big and all that stuff oh you were going for it yeah yeah so I was like my my Instagram name was Tommy guns Tommy Guns Tommy runs yeah yeah no shit yeah okay Tommy Guns Tommy Guns with a Z right and you know play on work you know what I'm saying Tommy guns yeah yeah yeah and so like I

had got big and like bulky and all that and was like you know because at one point like I first like month or so being sober I was like I'll start you can start seeing yourself again you know like you can actually like look at the mirror and go like really analyze what you see and i hated it you know and so i'm like let me get let me do something let's get physical and because i had never gone after like you know physicality like in that way of you know just like purposely trying to get something out of my body and then did that for like a year and then got went vegan just like on a random challenge because i was on this journey of like self-improvement and self-actualization and just trying to be better was that hard what the

vegan? No, I mean, so it was like a two-week challenge and then I felt amazing. Like, so oddly enough, bro, like I felt the energy shift that I felt after going vegan for like three, four days was bigger than the shift I remember from going sober, which was strange. Okay. So I'm like, something's weird, you know? So I'm like, let's stay here for a little bit. Watched a couple documentaries that obviously kind of like confirmed what I thought I was feeling. So I just went, so I'm like, we're vegan all the way. So like that was just like a cold cold turkey I guess decision to go vegan and then and still to this day yeah so I'm like six years vegan yeah and then but then like a month or so after that I got invited to do the rock and roll half

marathon of Chicago like a client of mine was like hey you're fit you're buff you could do it you know running is the same thing as being in the gym sure it's not it's not at all no so I go out there like I started I started like training you know what I mean wrong shoes wrong everything no like training plan or whatever and then just trying to do whatever I could ran the Chicago half miserable but then it was like at that point in these you know like when you get sober you like have all these first you know like this year first everything's the first first first prep day first everything and a year and a half later though like I had this first feeling of like really being like super proud of myself of like this thing that I just did and it was only 13.1 miles

But it was like my family was there, it was raining, it was kind of like all of these things that I just never thought I'd be, like happened all in this one moment. And I'm like, okay, like, let's keep running. You know, and then that's, I just kind of locked back in, started running more. My cousin was like, bro, you're not, you're not telling me guns anymore. You time he runs. You should just change it. He kind of joked. And I'm like, I checked to see if it was available.

It is. We're changing this name, you know? And then ever since then, it's just like just started running. We talk a lot about mental health. So I hear you were in the gym, and I've had periods over the past 13 years where I've lifted weights, lifted heavy weights, tried to, you know, see what I could do. But there's nothing for me better than a run for my mental health. How do you? I think so.

I mean, I can feel that too, because the gym for me, I'll just speak for myself, it's like, there's quite a bit of, like, vanity and ego in that for. me you know and it's very self like it's very focused on like on the outward and I had faked what I looked like on the outside thought I looked like on the outside for so long that it was helpful at that moment and it kind of like positioned me to be like fit enough to not like break in half when I start running you know but the running thing for me is is there's much more time like alone in your head even when you're with people you're still like having to constantly process like who you are at that moment and like what you want to have happen and then there's no there's nothing like signing up for a race and like going out there with all these other people that you don't really know and

running almost in silence with thousands of people and it's for on the mental health side there's not too many things that you can do for you know in my view that every year or every month you kind of learn something new about yourself if you continue to run you know like you you can run the same 10 miles over and over and find out something new about yourself you know in a month from now in that same route and it's like one of those processes it kind of reminds me of my

of like the sober walk I mean because it's like one mile at a time you know one interval at a time one everything at a time and you have to stay now you can only control what you can control in that moment you know like it's it's just every like especially a marathon it's just you like at mile five you have to start like talking to yourself and asking yourself the right questions and reminding yourself to stay present and I never I didn't get that like in the gym or whatever and I'm sure there's other sports that are kind of similar but running for me is that yeah the thing I mean there's a synergy between the recovery community and the running community which for me it just made so much sense the running community was kind of my next evolution of my greater journey if you will like I knew

When I got sober, I love these people. Like, I sit down with someone like you, and we start to share, and we're fast friends. And that happens for me every day that I sit down with someone who's seeking this thing. And with the running community, it's the same. And they can both be free. Yeah, yeah. I mean, to run, you need a pair of kicks and a pair of shorts. To get sober, like, there's rooms, there's places you can go.

Yeah. It's free, man. And it's an existence that, I mean, I put it up against anything. And it's cool because, like, everybody, And that's the one of the part that that first race, when I realized that, like, we all, we all started at the same start line. The half. Yeah, yeah. And all started at the same start line ahead.

We all had the same goal of, like, finishing the race, you know, finishing the race, you know. Some at different times, at different speeds and all that stuff. But that's, like, the same thing, like, when you walk into, you know, when you're around people that are sober, is, like, we all have the same goal is just to stay sober and help other people, you know. and that's really you know the running community in general it's like stay running and help other people get running yeah do you remember your time my first half i think it was like 149 like 50 or 149 like 30 something yeah yeah i was i was right on the on the precipice of breaking records yeah no like i mean it was cool though like i had like i was so it was so new to it that i had like i'm gonna run a I'm gonna run 135.

Like, I don't know what I said to myself, but it was just a wild, like, number that I have no idea how I was gonna figure it up. And are you, what are you a three-hour guy in the marathon? And what do you know? A PR is like 246-59. Damn. Yeah.

So, like, it's been- Well, you're cooking. I mean, yeah, something. That's cooking, bro. I mean, I mean, yeah. The running thing is crazy because I, I didn't want it to be competitive. I didn't want to give a shit about my time.

You can't do that. You can do that. Yeah, I ran 10 marathons, and I ran them that way, party running, the whole thing. And then someone, you DM me about Mario Fraoli and said, you should get a coach. And I said, all right, I'll get a coach. And I got a coach. And now it's a whole other. Yeah, I mean, it's cool, though.

Like, it's like a, because it's, you can always challenge yourself. You can, because then you can pick any distance and then you can just go after that. Like, it doesn't always have to be marathons. It doesn't always have to be. You see all these guys doing Leadville? Yeah. Is that? I mean, I'm not doing Leadville anytime soon.

No, no, no, no. I mean, if somebody was, like, say a random brand was like, hey, we want you to do, we'd love for you to do this race with us, and here's plenty of time, and we'll give you some resources. Some cash. Yeah, some cash. Yeah, resources. Yeah, resources, shoes cash, you know, training.

I would do it. I mean, I just, it seems crazy to do 100 miles, but, like, I've done, like, crazier things for, like, zero dollars or zero, you know, self-improvement at all. I'd love to try it. I think that I would probably fall apart somewhere in there, but it's just something new to do and to challenge myself with.

Yeah, for people that don't know, Leadville is a 100-mile, and you probably know better than I do a 100-mile race to start at 9,000 feet of elevation. It's in Colorado. Only half of the people who start the race, finish it. It's nuts.

Yeah, it is. Isn't like Ledville, like, one of those is like the oldest race, oldest trail race. Is it Ledville? It might be. Or Western States, one of those. I'm such an asshole, though.

I see these, like, I'm watching on Instagram this weekend. I'm like, I could do that. Like, that's what I tell myself with all this shit. And I, like, you know, you were watching the Olympics like, yo, I could probably do this. I mean, that's crazy. All right. So I want to shift gears because I think, I don't think I know. We talked a little bit offline and we've talked a little bit today about representation.

You talked about your experience getting sober and, you know, walking into a place where, you know, it was a bunch of middle-aged white dudes that was my experience and even when I walked into rehab and I was a middle-aged white dude it did occur to me that I'm here with a bunch of middle-aged white dudes and it got me thinking

even early on about that and then I know you've also been vocal about representation in the running community and so I just I want to give you the mic for a minute and talk about because if I try to do it

I'm going to say the wrong thing I'm real about that, but I want to lift your voice up and lift your purpose and passion up and hear you talk about why it's so important for you to be a black sober runner and say it in that way. Yeah, I mean, I just, it's just about like just the word representation in itself. It's just being in a space that changed both of those places, changed my life forever and I'll be forever grateful for sobriety and running. and if there's people that are like in a situation where they don't know how to get out of and they're just like looking outward to see like what things they can grab onto and they never see anybody that's like mildly cool and sober then maybe that's not I mean I'm just saying but maybe that's not an option for them because like when I was

getting so when I was when I thought about being sober before I'm like what I'm going to do like no one's going to like me anymore I won't be cool I can't do anything I won't be fun I'll be I won't be funny anymore whatever I thought of these weird things because I didn't know anybody sober so like it's important for me to say that I'm sober it's important

for me to be in the running space I mean the running space is especially when I started in not that long ago I mean at least 2018 I mean you get to some of these start lines and it's just not that many black people out there and I didn't see black folks running for recreation

or sport or whatever growing up unless they're on TV and I just want to be a reason one of the reasons why that change is why like a kid or anyone it doesn't have to be a kid like someone else sees me running or me and my friends running and they say like oh okay like I could

you know I could try that or try some version of that and that's why like somewhere in there like when I was starting this whole like Tommy Run's journey and my Instagram page was like starting to get some attention I started working with some brands was the like 2020 and then 2021 happened black lives matter resurgence was like very needed at that moment and I realized like how important it is for me to

like not only embrace the fact that I'm a runner but that I'm a black runner and make sure that like everything that I do from that point on that like people that look like me and came up like me can see me and resonate too like because it isn't it's it's not part of it for for me is not just being black but it's just being as authentic uh authentically me as i can be so that when someone sees it they see that i'm being real and it's not like oh he's he's black but he's not like me you know um because that that can be an issue too but my goal is to just be like to everything i make every kind of every piece of content i put out or whatever i say i kind of like do this thing where like i run it against like what would my friends

think of this moment you know and if my friends think it's like lame or stupid or whatever because it to me even is lame but it may get some attention I can't do it you know like because it would be cool if like I could just drop some like silly you know fun thing but to me it just wouldn't feel feel natural or authentic so I try to stay there but to answer like the question is like I need if if I'm here and alive because of sobriety and then also much more healthy in doing some of these cool things and sitting here with you because of running, then I need to be that and show that black people can do this too. And, you know, like, we'll run past people and then people say, oh, man,

I want to, I need to be out there with you. And the more of that happens, the more some people will start running and then maybe some people, you know, we look up in five, six, seven years that there's more people at the start of like the Berlin Marathon, you know. It's just not, it's just not seen as much as it just like I'm trying to like talk about it it just sucks that it's not automatic that like that like black folks don't just see an opportunity to get out be healthy and challenge themselves mentally and physically but we just don't see that as an option or like a thing that we do that's running jogging is a white people thing like that's just it is what it is and maybe that's like changing and and it's not because of me

I'm part of it maybe, but there's running clubs all over this country that are started by young black folks that have opened up space for anybody to come, but mainly for other black folks to see like, oh, there's like two or three black people doing this thing. I'm about to pull up and see what they're talking about. And then the vibes are the same. It feels like something that we would do. So now you've got these huge groups of people that are running down the street in Detroit and in New York. Atlanta, whatever, you know. So shout out to all those run clubs that are, like, doing that and really, like, doing the work in the space to get more people to see it's possible, you know? And that's why sometimes people are like, why you run so many marathons? Like, I did four this year so far. This year's so what you've done four? Yeah, I did four in February, March, and then I did Boston and London, you know, so in

April. And sometimes, like, that's just for me to be silly, you know, like, kind of, like, have some fun, do, like, take advantage of some of these opportunities. but I kind of think that's like if someone's watching my Instagram and they don't run and they kind of want to and they see me do four and like already this year then they're like

I can run a 5K like I could go jog and that's all that really matters is like I want somebody to see me see themselves in me and go like all right we can we'll do something everybody doesn't have to run four marathons or any like that's the other thing too like a lot of times like maybe it's just

black culture I'm not sure but we feel like if we're going to do something it has to be sweet We got to do it like I don't want to look stupid out on the street running But that doesn't matter Like it's about like whatever your journey is Drop the ego Worry about your health

And get out there You don't have to run marathons ever You know like the goal is get out there And get healthier and move your body You know That's what I try to tell people And for me it's been this crazy experience Because

You know I can look at the watch And I can care about the time But it's really the feeling and I would argue that of all the things I've heard you talk about today it was that first run in Chicago that half marathon where you ran a 150 or whatever it was but it was a feeling of you and the accomplishment and being surrounded by family and friends

and that's really what recovery has given me and that's what running has given me. Yeah, yeah for sure. But then to talk about the sobriety side of it is, you know, since I've been sober seven years And the longer of, in the beginning, everybody that kind of knew was, oh, good job, you know, this is great. But then the more time, the more you go, people start, like, actually, like, kind of inquiring and, like, man, I probably need to think about that, you know. And if I can be a reason why someone's curious about drinking less or smoking less or doing something less, then thank God I'm, like, that I'm able to be here for that.

because sobriety is one of those things where it's such a shift in the thinking process of certain communities to even think about not drinking or not doing anything is almost the opposite of what is cool and what's been taught. So if I can be the one or the few people that they see that's like, oh, okay,

he's kind of like me, he's cool, whatever, whatever. Maybe I could put down this drink for a little bit. Like that's, I hope that that's happening. you know and if it is then I'm here for a reason do you have do you get the DMs you get um so I don't like I do um but it's like a lot of my followers are like runners you know so I kind of get it every now and then especially if I like go into like my like my recovery bag real quick and start like talking then people go like oh that's amazing and then people ask me some questions here and there and that's actually my goal like in the fact that I'm about to turn 40 and like I said my father

didn't make it to that I've in the last like six months I've been really thinking about this day because I never thought I didn't think I'd live to I didn't ever think I'd outlive him like there's I was very sure I was not going to outlive him and I think I was okay with that so to be here in a in do this I want to make sure that my platform and my voice is fully authentic you know like I've been very clear and open about sobriety and all that stuff but if if I don't if I don't if I have the opportunity to talk about my sober journey more often and potentially save a life or change a life or something, then I have to do that. So, like, right now I don't get a bunch, but I would, every time I mention it and someone says that they know somebody that got

sober or lost their lives in this fight, that means, like, the world to me. You know, like, don't, I mean, not don't call me, and hit me up and ask me about shoes. you know, running shoes, but that's cool too. But those moments when it's like somebody actually was touched by like something I shared, like that's what I'm doing this for. Yeah. Yeah, it's heavy. It's heavy.

And I, you know, I always say with this podcast and with these conversations, like if we help one person, you know, one person sees this or sees one of these clips or one of these clips takes off and someone reaches out to you and asks for help, like we did our job for today. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. When was like the first, do you remember like the first moment that after starting release that you were like, like, it hit you that like you're about to, you're about to change people's lives?

Yeah, it's probably a long answer. I got time. No, yeah, we got time. You flew here, man. I, uh, so the journey of release is like eight years now. we started the for-profit and then we started the nonprofit in right before COVID

and I just remember sitting in treatment I was so convinced that I was going to die I was so convinced that this was going to end with a needle of my arm and a crack pipe in my mouth and my parents were going to get the phone call and that was going to be it

and so when I was saved I believe I was saved by a higher power a force outside of me I knew that I just wanted to pay it forward I knew I wanted to give this feeling to other people

while also understanding that I'm not God right? I can't get anyone sober and I'm certainly not going to get anyone drunk and the best way that I was going to do that was by sharing my experience just like we're doing here today and you're doing here today and then the kicker was we had built a really nice organization we were doing really good work

and the families and the alumni and people were getting well and then I had this chance to go on TV which was crazy and I never expected it and it was a total bizarre happenstance and I talk about this a lot I've been talked about it more lately because of the podcast but there was a moment there where they basically, like the producer said, like, hey, it's time to tell your story. It's time to sit with this lady and tell her what's up. And I felt so calm and so safe and so protected in that moment because of everything you just talked about, right? It's the ability to really tell my story, tell my story authentically, be proud of it, not be embarrassed. And once that happened, this thing took on kind of a life of its own.

and you talked about going in your recovery bag every once in a while. I'm trying to get out of my recovery bag every once in a while. I do something different, I keep finding myself right back in it, talking about it. And so at some point, you just got to accept, you know, accept who you are and what your purpose is. And that's where I'm at today. Like I, you talked about your friends, bro.

I got the group chat. There's 15 of us that I went to high school with. See, that's too many people, man. I know. We don't like all of them. No, no. These are my guys. And I was thinking about dropping some of my stuff in there,

like as you were saying that, but it's such a good barometer because I think initially, you know, when you get a little bit of the taste, you want to talk about your shoes and be a stylist and be this and be that and be like the voice on everything. And I had to recognize that, you know, I'm here for a reason. And that primary reason is to share my love of recovery

and all the great things that have happened as a result of that, which is I, you know, I get to go to Philadelphia sporting events and I get to run marathons and I get to meet guys like you and I get to be an entrepreneur and I get to, you know, do all these things, start a nonprofit, hire people, mentor people, because I'm sober. It's like where you started. Yeah. So I'm just, I'm grateful.

I want to read something to you because one of the things that we've done on the nonprofit side, I'm excited to get you involved. I'm like thinking here, like, Tommy runs, he's a board seat, like he's got to be overseeing our running. But anyway, give me the higher seat so I can look a little taller than at the table, bro. So this is something that the producers of the show put together, and I'm just going to read it as is, and I just want to kind of dish to you, and I'm just curious, right?

A vast body of research indicates that communities of color, including black and African-American people, have less access to substance use, treatment than white populations this limited access contributes to disparities in health care service use and outcomes so you being someone that got sober what what do you what do you hear when I read that it's the truth the truth yeah I mean yeah I mean I just it's I mean I just it's I it's so it's a deep it's so many different things it's you know and that's why I'm happy and excited to be a be a part and help and raise some money for you know release recovery

because it's you know luckily I mean I'm blessed to have not had to go the route of going to rehab and but if I did at the time I know that I was privileged to have a job that would have paid for some of it if not all of it but that's not everybody and unfortunately in certain communities either their job doesn't pay for it at all or they don't have a job that would have insurance that would cover that or whatever and even if like your your insurance covers some of it it's still an expensive process so just the access and resources to go there if you wanted to are very limited but then there's also

a stigma around like needing help like that like or even talking about the fact that maybe you're addicted to drugs because if you if you are you know if you're if you're doing hard drugs you're a crack it you know like we didn't and it's it's not like oh he needs help it's like oh he'd crack it so you just got to push him off to the side and like move on from from this person and you're just like ostracized and like now you have like no resources no friends and now you just go into whatever that means for the next step. But it's, it's, I didn't grow up hearing people talk about therapy. I didn't grow up here, you know, hearing some people talk about recovery or not drinking. Only time you heard somebody say about not drinking is when somebody went a little too

wild, like, hey, he need to stop drinking. But that's it. It's not about let's find some resources and help. So like the visibility of the possibility of rehab facilities and recovery are super low because no one's talking about it, but then also, if people wanted to, in our communities, obviously not saying that for everybody, you know, but as a whole, I think that there's just less access and ability to make that happen if they needed to. Because I don't even think I knew anybody that went to rehab until I was, at a facility to go to a meeting at a rehab facility, you know, and I'm like, wow, that's crazy. And even then I didn't see, see us or see me there, you know?

So I just think it's like, it's so many different, it's got, it's like systemic, it's, it's, it's everything. And it's sad. And then, and I don't know. Like, it's, it's kind of like, it hurts to hear because there's just so many people that like, even I grew up around or near or saw that like I'm thinking now like like damn like that's what they needed was like recovery you know that's what they needed was rehab like and I didn't even know at the moment to tell them like oh bro you go to rehab I mean and I'm just like casting like an opinion maybe or like a I could I would imagine like a 18 year old white kid that like has a friend that's going through it maybe not smart enough at that moment to tell his friend to go to recovery or go to rehab but

he knows it because he's seen it and he's seen kids get help you know we don't that doesn't happen and and and that's like that's the sad part and that's part of like some of the representation like and I can't go too far deep in that bag because I didn't have to go or maybe I can but I just didn't feel like I was I had a place to speak about like going to rehab because I didn't have that experience but now that I'm saying in that I can't do that. Like, why can't I be, why can't I talk about that more about the possibility and just being a voice that maybe someone, it'll hit somebody the right way like, damn, like,

I could do that. Like, maybe that's what I need. Maybe I should figure out how to get there. Maybe I should hit up release recovery. Maybe I should hit up my insurance and see what I got, you know? But it's just, I'm like, I didn't disagree with anything in that. I mean, because I've seen it and just didn't know what was happening. Yeah, it's something that, I mean, my experience, right, like what I told you, I stepped onto a treatment unit and it was a bunch of people that looked like me and part of the reason we started the release foundation was to provide scholarship funding to underserved communities.

So we saw women, you know, like there's numbers out there that suggest, you know, for every three men that get treated. treatment one woman, you know. So we looked at that. We looked at the LGBTQI plus community and we looked at the black and brown community. And we started a fund with the treatment center down in Maryland to serve that community. And it was interesting because for us, we truly just wanted to give back. Like we truly just wanted to give people the gift of recovery. And for the most part, I mean, it has been and will continue to be supported and lifted up. And we're doing, we're doing good work. But I've learned a lot from it We'll get phone calls and we'll tell people Hey you can go down to this world-class treatment center It sits on the Chesapeake Bay It's beautiful you're going to eat good food You're going to be there 30 days

You're going to get cleaned up You don't know what's a penny We're going to write the check And we'll get people that show up And they'll be there for five days And they'll call us and say these just aren't my people Yeah yeah These just aren't my people so I'm out

And if you would have done that when you walked into that first meeting your mom told you to go see a therapist like thank God man thank God and you took that opportunity and I believe that like you're just getting started yeah yeah

and then what when you said like the 30 day thing like the first thing I thought too is like certain people just don't have the ability to step away from their lives for 30 days you know like in certain communities you're you're not thriving I mean you're in a survival mode

at that point anyway. So there is no, like, I'll be back, like, 30 days later. Like, if I'm gone for 30 days, at certain points in my life, if I'm gone for 30 days, everything falls apart. Like, I come back to nothing, and I don't have, you know, I'm not speaking for myself, but, like, I don't have, like, my mom to, like, fall back on or something to fall back on, and I have to, like, literally start from scratch. And that's not even starting from scratch. I'm starting from below scratch now. So I think it's that, too. It's like there's the ability you know, to go get help and have, like, the leeway to do so and have the support at home or in the community to get back on your feet once you get back.

I think that's a scary thought. Yeah. You know. Well, that's, I mean, that's an age-old argument, therapeutic. Who can take 30 days, right? Who can take? And my response to that is always, you know, the way you started, the way I view my life without recovery, I literally have nothing.

So there's a blind faith that's involved that if you take this 30 days and you work on yourself and you get sobered up and you get cleaned up, any opportunities that you're going to miss out on or hardships that you're going to experience as a result of being away, you know, are going to come back five times over if you just, if you just stay sober. But that's where, you know, for me, after the 30 days, it's the aftercare and it's how are they being supported and they find in their community and are they going back home? they staying or relocating or doing something new and that's that's probably a whole another um conversation all right so Tommy runs you first of all you got to follow this guy

on Instagram he's a great follow he's an inspirational follow I'm gonna be looking after all you to make sure you smash that button um T-O-M-M-I-E underscore R-U-N-Z underscore RUNZ Tommy runs he's changing the world what else just tell us quick what else you got going on. What's next for you? Where are you at? Next for me is more races. I'm doing Berlin, Chicago, New York. So three in a row. Three in a row. So I already did the first three majors of the year. So I did Tokyo, Boston, London. So I'm going to finish out and do all six in one calendar year. And just like, I mean, I did the first three in, you know, Boston and London are six States apart. So I don't want to ever have to like think about possibly doing that

again. Were the time similar? Um, no. So Boston was like, Boston was like 320 something because I was going to, I was like, I called myself taking it easy or whatever, but there is no easy in Boston. Like you're just going to be, it's going to suck. But London was cool. I think I ran like 301 or something like that in Boston. But, um, I plan to just trying to coast through these next three, have some fun. Um, check that box. I've done done all six in a year. And then, you know, kind of move on but just continue to like try to grow the platform in a in a meaningful way uh work with brands to just kind of increase exposure and do things that are cool and and actually like experiences that people can like walk away with feeling so because like as a

influencer content creator it gets kind of like for me i'm like having a moment where i'm like i want to do things that like feel like they matter more um and if brands want to do things that like that touch communities or touch people, then I'm like 100% about that. I'll wear the shoes for sure while we're doing it, but if there's something that we can do to make people walk away with smiles and their faces or feeling like they've got a new memory, that's what's up. Yeah, they're out there. I mean, Reebok, Reebok's a global brand and they just... No, I saw that. Congratulations. Yeah, with the Release Foundation and myself and some of the work

we're doing, they said we're in and I'm not... Rebock could go get anyone. Yeah, yeah. And they could, right? Like, I'm a real. I'm a real. us about that. So there are brands, big brands out there that are going to see what you're doing. And if you keep chopping wood and carrying water, I believe that, you know, those opportunities are going to start turning down opportunities

because you're going to have so many. I receive that. I receive that, bro. I see that. No, I mean, I think it's dope. I mean, because we all know that, you know, there's waves of different things that, like, brands are really into, or companies are into for the moment. We've seen all different, a few different things in the last few years

since COVID, but it's like, I'm just going to keep doing this thing and then and just see what happens whether brands like rock with it or not like I want to continue to push towards like doing things that make me feel like I'm a contributing factor to like someone's life or like giving back because I have like I got resources in contacts now like if I'm not using those like what's the point I have 100,000 followers if you're not doing anything with I don't have 100,000 but like what's the point of having all those followers if you're not going to use that platform to like lift other people up with it i was i'll i'll close with this i my buddy blake moines who was on the show i thought you're going to say griffin i was no yeah blake griffin i wish no but blake moines he was on the show with me and we've remained friends for four years and so he's he's does like all the wildlife stuff he's a wildlife conservationist and you know he had some post this week with a picture of a girl and people went nuts on it because they're like are they dating are they not dating and i don't even know the truth of

it but i texted him i was like bro like what world do we live in like the click bait shit is what people are going to go nuts for and then you post something about you know saving the world or bringing water back to a community that doesn't have water it's like it's like it's like three comments and four likes it's like the people out there trying to save the world bro we we uh we don't always get the love but we just got to keep keep telling what we're doing so dude i have appreciate you. I'm proud of you. I'm proud to you. I really am and I'm proud to know you and I feel like this is just the beginning

of some cool, cool shit we're going to do together. But I just want to say thank you for having me on the show, but thank you for like what you do and putting yourself out there because like people like you and then for like rich role for me in the beginning where like you show people that like being sober

and living this like living this and actually speaking about it isn't detrimental to like your life or your career. Like it actually opens up doors and you actually can build on like your new truth and actually help other people like so people like you are are just so needed and that's where I kind of want to fall for people is like someone that told their truth and like bravely moved forward and showed me or someone else that there's like there's higher options for us dude thank you that means so much Tommy runs love you dog thank you